Open 53: Near-Vanilla - Game over!

[ClockworkRuse]

Hello all, I suppose I am the replacement for Near no?

I will get on reading... all 37 pages tomorrow as it is midnight and I am dead tired. I just thought it would be nice to let you all know that I'm here.

Also, if anyone would like to give me a small update as to what's been happening lately and give me a brief overview of how everyone feels about the players still alive?

Korlash and Killa Seven, why Eldritch?

Romanus, why were you voting for Near [now me]?

Eldritch, why Neko?

I promise to be up-to-date relatively soon.

[ClockworkRuse]

Well, the only reason I asked for a brief summary is so when I am re-reading the thread, I can see what major turns happened. I plan on re-reading no matter what, I was just looking for... an outline. I suppose that would be a good name for it.

I'm starting my re-read now actually. So I plan to post something later tonight.

[ClockworkRuse]

Yes, I hammered my partner. /sarcasm

WIFOM all the way.

I also like K7's read of El's/Justin's play style. Justin did post quite a bit of information and seemed to be very pro-town but something about it just felt wrong. It felt like a junk-food hunt. There just wasn't any good information in there at all.

Second Post if you just select Justin's posts

quote="Justin "]I have to say in advance that I replaced Skitzer in the now abandoned New C9 (Open 50). He was town, but if I hadn’t been replacing him I would have certainly been making a case against him, for the same lurking, trailing and odd posting he’s done here.

Notice something in there? He is defending Skitzer, saying that Skitzer has a meta of lurking and strange posting. He then goes on to briefly apply a little bit of pressure to him and tells him to stop lurking. Which I believe could be scum telling his scum partner 'You are looking too much like scum! Praticipate!'

He compliments Klebian and applies little pressure to him as well in the next post. Simply asking for an explaination of his RW vote.

It should be said that he also complimented other people while applying pressure, but I believe that he left Skit and Kleb alone for the most part.

This post upsets me a little bit.

Unvote. Vote JDodge

I still don't have anything against JDodge and I don't even mind his Melodyman vote so much, because it's a reasonably good line, but Phate, how about a few words on why you would want to give TheSweatpantsNinja the vote on Melodyman he was asking for?

He didn't have a case against JDodge yet he jumped onto that vote easily. It's strange to see and I really don't like the vote at all. And later he goes on to attack the wagon that

he

jumped on.

It's a dilemma. I trust the way the wagon arose on JDodge less than I do the one on MelodyMan, but the people I suspect the most are on the MelodyMan wagon. On one hand, JDodge is actually lurking, while MelodyMan has probably just sung his tuneless way out of all of our lives, so lynching MelodyMan would at least spare us the bother of replacing him.

On the other, JDodge is actually lurking. I understand this is his MO, but we should all be working to push this game along. He's not just hitching a ride, he's stealing from us the opportunity to judge his play. So it probably does us the most practical good to lynch him.

Not happy that this has devolved to one of these two, but of the two I guess I'll take JDodge.

I have to say that it's good he didn't jump on the MM wagon, I didn't trust that wagon from the moment it started no matter how scummy and DS was or how much of a VI he was.

I'm not going to vote as of yet, I'm going try and compile a list of Scum/Not Scum.

_____
Anyways, I'm a little half and half on this doctor bit. Although, I am glad he breadcrumbed because that means if we do lose him we can at least clear who he protected. So I don't think the doc should claim either. We won't lose information if he dies but I am also not liking the mentioning of the crumbs in the first place. It's fine if they are there but saying "OH HAI! There are crumbs for the doctor, so I know who he is!" would give scum good reason to go and re-read and find those crumbs. I don't like that one bit.

For now, I will

FoS El

until I finish forming my list.


Also, thank you for letting me replace in. I've learned a lot by reading over these thirty seven pages and it is a pleasure to hunt scum with all of you

[ClockworkRuse]

"Left them alone" might not have been the best wording for that, agreed. But I don't think he put as much pressure on them as he did people like Korlash. Maybe I should say he was a little bit lighter on them.

[ClockworkRuse]

I really don't see Eldritch Lord as scum. I have read his posts in isolation and just don't see it.

I still favor a Korlash lynch

Can I hear your case against Korlash please?

[ClockworkRuse]

Everyone needs to shut up about the doc, seriously. Right now, that is not a matter we should be discussing. Talking about it leaves the doc in serious trouble and that is not good for the town. Seriously, it is a big concern that everyone is so willing to talk about the doctor so quickly.

Now then, Korlash, could I hear your case against El and your case against K7?

[ClockworkRuse]

El is scum and K7 is trying to kill the doctor.

Korlash- No quotes, proof, or reasoning other then that? That is a rather weak case you are pushing and not something worth lynching someone for.

K7, Neko - Could I hear your case against El and my former counter-parts? Quotes and detail would be appreciated.

El - Could I hear your case against any of the players as of now?

[ClockworkRuse]

El is scum and K7 is trying to kill the doctor.

lol no im not.
anyways.. i provided my case on EL why i think he is the last scum so im sticking with my vote on him.

Then may I hear your case against Shanba and Near?

[ClockworkRuse]

CR, you'll find all my thoughts on EL in rereading--I've posted them all.

As far as you go, it's more of what you've said than Shanba that's made me suspicious, and that's all posted as well. I need to reread Shanba some more yet. I'm also in the midst of revisiting a K7 case, and I'll be sure to post my thoughts, don't you worry.

In the meantime, how about yourself? What are your thoughts so far, other than wishing people would stop talking about the doc (which I agree with at this point)?

I have re-read your case on El. I seemed to have missed the case on Shanba, but I'll be looking for that later tonight.

Right now, my feelings are a little up in the air.

Justin/El- Justin seemed to be truly scum hunting, but it was just all in the wrong place most of the time. I don't know what to make of him. Something about El just unsettles me.

K7- K7 upsets me because he is one of the players who keeps bringing up the Doctor. There are also some other reasons that I need to go over later tonight.

Korlash- Korlash is giving me the 'I'm a lazy townie' feeling. I don't really think he's scum.

Neko- I have to re-read you, to be honest. I don't have much of a case against you or for you.

[ClockworkRuse]

The fact that Al J is the vote leader and that I could hammer him has made me pause. Also that he is #2 on my scum list.

Also, I asked for information that it appears I am not going to get, which is fine.

Where is Clockwork Muse in all of this. He isn't voting either and hasn't posted near as much.

Ruse. XD

I've been reading, enjoying my fourth, and... reading. That said, here are some of my thoughts. The reason I'm not voting? I want to be responsible with my vote. I'm not just going to throw it out right away because there is a dead-line coming. I'm going to vote for who I think is scum.

Korlash- The fact that you aren't willing to present a case upsets me. A lot. In fact, because you aren't presenting a case, you are hurting the town. Hiding your ideas from the town doesn't help us at all and it makes you look bad, in my opinion. You honestly look like you are more interested in your jokes then forming an case against Alabaska.

Ramanus- [Get it? I spelled your name wrong too. ] You've been up on my list actually, for a while. The fact that you've been pushing for the doctor to out himself makes me uneasy but at the same time I can see the point of it. However, I still feel that it's better the doctor stay hidden. Then your vote on Korlash without reasoning made me feel even more uneasy. If you justified your vote, I would feel much better but until then you still seem suspicious.

Alabaska- There really isn't much to say about

you

. But as your 'persona' in this game, Justin still makes me feel uneasy. I feel like he was giving us junk-food scum hunting and now I think there is the possibility that you've jumped onto that habit and that you are attacking Korlash because he is who you the players you are now representing attacked before.

Neko and K7 haven't posted in a while as well. If they don't post within this deadline then they get a MASSIVE FoS. Because they left their vote hanging there without bothering to come and check the discussion. If Ala were to claim doctor and they weren't here to unvote then everything would go to hell. [That's a hypothetical situation. Just so you know. I don't know who the doctor is and I don't want to know at the moment.]

[ClockworkRuse]

I did know it was deadline and when I came on to place my vote, low and behold I was too late. I got caught up in some real life drama, I'll spare you all the details and keep the headache to myself.

That said, I think I picked up on Korlash's crumbs but I want to double check to make sure I found them. Did he start crumbing when he talked about spending a night at the hospital?

A re-read is in order as I was most suspicious of Ala and now I need to find some new direction.

[ClockworkRuse]

Neko: I thought that Korlash was the doctor because he was obviously laying back in the pocket and trying to seem like an unhelpful townie for a reason. And as I said before, I thought I found the crumbs but I wasn't sure.

And just to point out, it's mislynch and lose. So we have to be careful with anything we do.

I can not comment on Shanba's play earlier in the game, obviously I am not him, but I can say that I did not miss that deadline on purpose. I was mulling over who I would vote during the night and when I woke up I would have had enough time to get a vote in. But, girlfriends complicate things when they are having bad days. Enough said, we aren't going to derail discussion with that.

With Neko cleared, that means I have to concentrate on K7 and Romanus. We should be able to nail scum today.

[ClockworkRuse]

Shanba did ping for me earlier. The non vote at deadline also concerned me. I'm going to have to go back and see what exactly pinged for me. Not sure when I am going to be able to do that, but soon.

K7, I just don't know about. I reread is in order.

I would like you to answer the rest of that question. Is the only reason you have for voting me that I missed a deadline vote?

I'm looking forward to hearing a bit from K7, I'd love to hear any cases he has to make. I believe earlier he said that if El wasn't mafia, then I would have to be. So I would be very interested in hearing what myself or my predecessors have done to make a bleep on his radar.

As far as my reading on K7 and Rom...

K7 has been playing the 'I'm noobish!' card throughout the game. From voting with poor or little reason to vote jumping, we've excused it to him being new here. There comes a point where me must look at it and say, 'Is it newbie scum actions? Or town?'
The newbie veil needs to fall and we all need to take a serious look at him.

Rom has been iffy with me, I really to re-read on him. He was pretty set on Korlash being scum however.

Rom, did you even attempt to find the crumbs left by the doctor?

[ClockworkRuse]

I don't remember seeing k7 ever try to pull the newbie card. I'd say his play has improved considerably, and he's been around awhile now, so I haven't considered him a newbie for some time. Maybe that's just me, but I think you're misrepresenting k7 there, CR. If you have some examples to prove otherwise, though, that'd be nice to see.

I'm not saying that he came out and said 'I'm new, excuse that please! It was just a mistake.' It's more my read on him throughout the game. K7, I didn't mean your playing style right now was noobish at all. I meant that your play style from when you replaced into this game and on. While you never came out and said 'Oh, my bad. I'm new,' I feel that it was just assumed by most players.

Expect a few quotes to come in my next post.

Rom- If when it was apparent that the doctor was not going to out himself, why did you not hunt for those crumbs to prevent us from lynching our doctor? I fail to see how that is pro-town.

[ClockworkRuse]

The K7 re-read;

Keep in mind that this is going to be my thoughts as I read through his posts, I'll add a little summary at the end.


The second post K7 makes in the game:

unvote, vote: RossWilliam

Killa seven: have you read the thread yet?

Not feeling the RW bandwagon atm..

im trying threads kinda slow, most posts are complaints about it being slow lol, and a quick question yes im a newbie but what does rw bandwagon atm mean?

While this isn't scummy at all, I would like to note that he announces that he is new here. There's nothing wrong with that and I'm glad to see that rather than jumping into the game headfirst without
asking for help that he asks about things he doesn't know.

why was there a rw bandwagon in the first place?

This post is iffy for me because he's basically asking for a summary on a case when he could easily re-read and form his own opinions.

unvote, vote: nolynch

right now, I don't know who is scummy. But I also think, though it sounds selfish, that lynching me right now would be a mislynch. You don't have enough on me to lynch me yet. I'd appreciate it if some people voted nolynch with me, or even if the people on me unvoted. it would be a shame for the town for me to die without more evidence.

PS: there is no more evidence to be had, so we're all good

way to try to save yourself, probably wasnt the right one, as soon as the mod lets us vote no lynch u jump right on it? explain to me further why i shouldnt vote u and should vote no lynch u didnt really explain it much...

I like this post for town, he's being inquestitive and if he was scum he might've gone along with the No lynch and tried to use the newbie card had anyone attacked him and got away with it.

im here tryna decide who to vote for melodyman or tsn

vote j dodge

fuck it.

Bad posting, seems lurky and scummy.

well j dodge hasnt posted anything in ages except, 2 one sentance posts, and tsn atleas tries to defend himself and answer questions.. cant say the same for j dodge, and mm seems like a new guy making a few mistakes, he should atleast get another day to redeem himsef.
however im not completely commited to my vote.

Here's another post where I get some strong Town-Vibes from K7. He votes for J Dodge for lurking and attempts to stop the mm lynch, which to me was a very bad lynch.
At the same time, he could be scum knowing the MM was town and saying that so he could use this to appear more town;

i knew mm was town....

fos

at that whole bandwagon... oh and

vote

j dodge

we shoulded lycnhed that guy instead

ok i dont like how tsn earlier in the day had voted for j dodge, and then on page 25 both j dodge and tsn gang up on crub near the deadline, and on page 26 post 638 jdode asks why we are voting tsn instead pf crub, all this seems shady 2 me, i dont feel like quoting it all just go look for your selvs.

vote tsn

This post is a little hard to follow and I found it extremely unhelpful, to be honest.
Could be just unhelpful townie behavior or it could be scum trying to confuse/derail town.


There are a bunch of filler posts, going after TSN and Kleb.

He then talks about the doctor a bit, even after being told to shut-up about it all.

Overall, 64 posts in the game.

And my overall feeling on K7 is more Town then Scum but I need a re-read on Rom to be more sure of that feeling.

Toward the beginning some of his play was a little newbish and that's what I was refering to in my earlier posts. But reading over it, it seems more Town newbish then scum.


I will say that K7 did not look at Kleb or Skitzer as much as he could have and that is seems that he mentions Kleb once or twice but never really attacks them more then voting for them by jumping on the wagon.
That's a little suspicious.

I'm going to mull this all over and then after a re-read on Rom, I'll have my informed vote.

[ClockworkRuse]

EBWOP: Excuse the spelling errors in there, I wrote that all in notepad during my re-read and forgot to fix the spelling. D=

[ClockworkRuse]

So.... bump? I'd love to see some discussion going on.

[ClockworkRuse]

im unsure who to vote for, but im leanin CR.. maybe.. couple of weird reasons, the night TSN was killed i remmeber jtr saying he was going to camp and then he never returned, the mod never replaced him untill i brought it up, dunno for sure tho but shanba was replaced in the night phaze so near woulda been able to pick a kill. thats just crazy thoughts tho.

Also im pretty sure the scum knew korlash was the doc yesterday there is no way they didnt and im not sure rom woulda been pushing for his lynch if he knew he was the doc(well myabe to get a claim

). and CR has down nothin but lurk untill today poppin up and

askin for discussin gets a major FOS

. seeing as how its end game and hes jusr now ready to hunt.
Willl vote soon.. maybe
anyone have a completed shanba game?

Hold on for a second. Whoa.

First of all, since he's missed it once.

Rom- if when it was apparent that the doctor was not going to out himself, why did you not hunt for those crumbs to prevent us from lynching our doctor? I fail to see how that is pro-town.

Second of all K7, look at your post for a second are realize how WIFOM that argument is. Rom could have known who the doctor was and lied about it easily. Scum could easily push for a lynch of the doctor under the guise of 'I didn't know! He didn't claim! Which is stupid of him...'

Explain how asking for discussion and hunting at end game is scummy? Because I honestly don't see the correlation there.

[ClockworkRuse]

I am reading. Going back to my original notes, during my first readthrough, Shanba, now CR, pinged very hard. I'm going to have to find what it was I was seeing.

Right now, I put him at the top. The lack of a vote by deadline only more so puts him up there.

K7 just looks townie to me.

Actually, I'm going with ClockworkRuse.

It's between K7 and CR. CR is much more scummy to me.

My vote is unofficially on Clockwork Ruse.

How'd Shanba ping hard? If it pinged hard the first time then you should be able to find that same thing that he said again.

Why does K7 look like a town, with your own reasoning and words.

Put it this way, it's pseudo-endgame. I don't want these bland statements of your opinions. I want explanations. I want to see proof and I want you to answer questions.

Everyone should be explaining their theories in full, not just posting 'I think it's XXXXXX' without any reason behind it.

If I'm "much more scummy" prove it. Provide posts and support it. Otherwise you get a major

FOS

for not contributing anything substantial to the discussion.

[ClockworkRuse]

You can't answer for anything nor defend anything. I really don't have to explain anything because this is endgame.

If I had really solid evidence then I would present it. I really don't. I don't feel like sitting here and debating conjecture and a whole lot of WIFOM.

I can't PROVE anything. There is no proof to be made. All I have is my best guess, and you can FOS all you like.

This isn't page 4, it is endgame. Your FOS means nothing and sounds desperate and even more scummy.

As for what you want. About not liking my bland opinions. Oh well. It isn't my opinion as much as it is my vote. It may be bland but it counts just as much as any other, whether I give bland or spicy opinions.

The time for explaining theories is over. Townies need to make up their own damn minds.

Vote: ClockworkRuse

This post is the

scummist

thing I've read all game.

You've blatantly said "At endgame, I don't have to explain anything. Your suspicions mean nothing and make you nothing but seems scummier."

Be responsible for your vote at end game then.

Tell me how discussion at endgame is less important then any other time in the game.

To me, this post confirms my suspicions that you are scum.

[ClockworkRuse]

Everyone is suspicious. An FOS at the end of the game? What kind of non-committal stuff is that?

I'm suspicious of everyone. A Finger of Suspicion is laughable. Makes you look like you are coming after me, but not without a vote. It is a wishy-washy tactic that just makes you look even scummier.

Confirm Vote: ClockworkRuse

I really don't have anything else to contribute. I will be reading. If I change my mind I will certainly let you know.

Others need to make up their mind instead of casting suspicion and hoping others jump on before they commit.

It's not non-committal. I'm being responsible for my vote, especially since this is end-game. I would much rather use a FoS without a vote and not worry about my vote while I re-read you and your predecessors then vote you right away with little reason at all.

To me, it looks like you are deliberately trying to stop discussion and that is beyond just being anti-town. It's so much worse than that.

So to answer you;
Why an FoS? - Because I want time to form a case on you. I'm more suspicious of you than everyone and rather than just vote and leave it I'm actually going to hunt.

I suppose you aren't going to cooperate with that? Or will you be answering questions that I have?

[ClockworkRuse]

First of all, since he's missed it once.
Rom- if when it was apparent that the doctor was not going to out himself, why did you not hunt for those crumbs to prevent us from lynching our doctor? I fail to see how that is pro-town.

I don't see why the scum

wouldn't

be looking for it. Also, we don't necessarily know that he (or you, for that matter) didn't actually know Korlash was the doc.

Then you are starting to see the point I was aiming for.

First, it wouldn't be pro-town to not find the crumbs left by Korlash. In fact, it would only prove to hinder yesterday's discussion. At the same time that he could have taken the few minutes to hunt for the crumbs, he was pushing for Korlash's lynch yesterday. In my opinion, I find the possibility that he didn't hunt for those crumbs minimal at best.

I think it's possible that he is scum and that his play yesterday was just him attempting to get the doctor lynched under the guise of 'I didn't know.'

Expect a re-read in a day or two of Rom.

Rom, I expect you to do a re-read of both K7 and myself.

[ClockworkRuse]

I'm sorry, I completely misremembered how all that went as I have been focusing on the first couple days.

My real point is that CR gets to point at me for what I did at the end of yesterday when he did nothing at all but watch a townie, who I believe he knew was a townie, get lynched.

If anyone looks more scummy due to their actions at the end of yesterday, it is CR, not I.

I disagree, as I've already said I had no chance to come here.

I am glad that you are participating now but now K7 hasn't posted for a short time and I'd hate for him to think that just because people

think

he's town that he can stop posting.


Now then, I'd like to ask why you don't believe in crumbs, Rom.

Expect a re-read on Rom this Saturday. It's been a very busy week.

[ClockworkRuse]

The crumbs are fine afterwards.

But actually discussing them while the person is still alive is asinine. Why not just claim?

We were discussing something we couldn't discuss. Does that sound right to you?

The question of why he didn't claim has already been answered as best as it could I believe, plus it was apparent that Korlash was a very lazy townie. It could have been very easy for him just to say 'Meh... I don't feel like it.' I can't really comment on that.

I still stand by my point that when it became apparent no claim was coming, finding crumbs would have been the best thing you could do.

K7, why are you leaning more toward me? Anything in particular about myself and the previous players?

[ClockworkRuse]

I should have just outed him.

Now I'm confused. What do you mean by this? I thought you didn't know Korlash was the doc...

Now I'm convinced.

He knew who the doctor was yesterday and was pushing for his lynch under the guise of 'I don't know who the doctor is!' Obviously the lynch would never get off the ground but that wasn't the reasoning behind it, was it? He was trying to seem like a confused townie because scum would never attempt something so obvious as trying to get rid of the towns power during the day.

Then during the night, he killed the doctor and came back using the "He should have claimed!" excuse as his defense to seem more town.

I still need to do my re-read before my vote, but I'm more convinced then ever that Rom is scum.

[ClockworkRuse]

Whatever. I should have found the breadcrumbs and outed him. Or someone else should have outed him.

I decided to not waste my time looking for the breadcrumbs that would prove nothing.

Again I have misspoken, or weren't exactly precise.

I would think that rather than quibbling over these little semantic things, one would actually look over the record of the game and come up with some real evidence of scummy behavior.

Read my post and you'll see that is what I plan on doing today/tomorrow.

[ClockworkRuse]

Re-read finished. Breaking it up into chunks because it is MASSIVE. So multiple posts are coming up right now.

Shanba.....I don't like how definate your being, with not that much bearing to be definite on. I think TSN's post is decidedly innocent. While it's a crummy strategy, a scum's major goal during the day time is to throw confusion into the face of the pro-towners. While he is being crappy at it, this is what DS is doing. So TSN is merely pointing out that maybe we should keep an eye on him. I think it's fine. And now what your doing, Shanba, reeks to me of a scum trying to lynch an innocent. You don't wanna lynch DS, because he's way too much the easy way out. You can paint TSN with just enough scumminess to cover your own tail. So, thusly,

vote: Shanba

Shanba....you've explained yourself very well, and I appreciate that. And because I'm finding Phate much more alarming, i'm going to change my vote.

unvote, vote: Phate

Phate......votes without reason are sketchy at best, you should have expected someone to ask. and I'm confused as to what your issue with skitzer is. What post did he make such horrifying reasoning? your throwing me through a loop.

I still made a move against you. That's enough to piss off some people to the point of OMGUS. Apparently, you Shanba, are a bigger person than that. Thank you.
And thats explanation enough. That's all I needed

Apparent buddying to Shanba. First he makes a case against him then when he thinks that Shanba has

i've become increasingly frusterated with this game, between the slowness, and my blatant disability to defend myself properly. Everything I'm saying at this point just digs me into an even deeper hole. I could chalk it up to being new, but than I'll just come off as fishing for sympathy. I'm not succeeding in this game at all. at this point i'm this close to just accepted my fate as the next lynch, but i'm not there yet. ask me anything, i'll explain anything, it's so frusterating to lack the abilities to properly convince. So throw me a bone, i'll do my best.

This just seems like a poor defense. He is basically begging for pity.

unvote, vote: nolynch

right now, I don't know who is scummy. But I also think, though it sounds selfish, that lynching me right now would be a mislynch. You don't have enough on me to lynch me yet. I'd appreciate it if some people voted nolynch with me, or even if the people on me unvoted. it would be a shame for the town for me to die without more evidence.

PS: there is no more evidence to be had, so we're all good

I know that K7 touched on this, but a NL at deadline is never a good thing and it’s certainly not going to help the town at all.

yeah, sorry for the vapid post. What ca I say, I get lazy too. where is melodyman? I feel like we haven't seen him for a while. Maybe he feels like he's messed up and backed off for a while? I knew I did that a couple times when I was still figuring out how to play. Saving face, in a way.

Just some pressure then. He never defended himself for his mistakes, and I want that defense.

vote: melodyman23

Joins the MM wagon, to ‘Save Face’ apparently.

killa seven, if your not fully committed to your vote, don't make it. And you say you're voting JDodge instead of TSN because TSN defends himself more often. not even better, more often. How does this make TSN less potentially scummy than JDodge?

Good posting.

My gut is telling me he's scum. I could see how he could simply be newb townie though, but i think he's trying to hide behind that image. We'll see. I'm not opposed to unvoting, but for now? He's scum, in my eyes.

Yes, of course it's more than gut. I find his lack of wordiness, impulsiveness, and tendacy to waver all a mask to hide scumminess behind. Gut is just whats pushing me to vote instead of simply FoS.

I didn't like how klebian flip-flopped right of the bat. He was quick to tell me I was wrong, but once a more experianced player supported my opinions, he backed down speedily. I felt almost like he was trying to paint suspicion on me based on my lack of experiance, assuming that I would be less able to defend myself? I didn't like that.

I don't have much to say about Shanba.

Contradicting text. Still buddying up to Shanba and a little interaction with Klebian but there is no FoS or vote for him as of yet.

Shanba, Klebian, what you say makes sense, I didn't think of that. I don't want to be lynched, but I see how it's good for the whole town if it happens.

unvote

killa, we could have voted no lynch all game. It was never not an option. I wasn't going to vote nolynch, but the dead line frightened me into doing it. I don't want to be lynched, I want to last as long in the game as possible. that's just human nature. But some of you guys just convinced me to take one for the team if need be. thank you for that.

killa seven, we know your a newbie too, and it looks right now like your just trying to take advantage of a situation that looks good for you. I think your being oppurtunistic, and I don't like it.

Interaction with Klebian and more buddying to Shanba.

Where did K7 go? right now I'm thinking K7 and Crub scumpair, but I could be wrong about Crub. I want K7 to respond to Justin pretty bad, and until he does I have no concerns about my vote on him

i don't understand all the debate about Crub when killa just seems so scummy. i wish someone else would show him some attention, because i have been unable to step up and do so and i'm very embaressed by that

Seems pretty intent on getting K7 lynched and calls the town out on it. Pleads for someone to take a look at K7 because he hasn’t been able to make a case against him.

yeah, sorry for the vapid post. What ca I say, I get lazy too. where is melodyman? I feel like we haven't seen him for a while. Maybe he feels like he's messed up and backed off for a while? I knew I did that a couple times when I was still figuring out how to play. Saving face, in a way.

Just some pressure then. He never defended himself for his mistakes, and I want that defense.

vote: melodyman23

Drops the K7 points and switches to MM.

I think I would prefer a melodyman lynch, but I honestly torn between him and TSN. You can chalk my lack of posting for the past few pages to me just having no idea what to say. but I think for now I'm committed to melodyman

Fair-weather voting? He dropped his convictions of K7 being scum and moved right into who the Town was focusing on.

[ClockworkRuse]

Jtdyer replaces RossWilliam.

Geez, that took a while. How do you guys keep track of everything? I mean, do you keep a notebook by the comp and take notes? And while I read the abbreviation guide, and know what OMGUS means, how is it used? And what are bussing and meta?

I'm gonna go with my predecessor's vote on D2, and [b\] vote: killa seven [/b]. If that didn't come through bolded, could someone let me know how to fix it?

Oh, I figured it out.

vote: killa seven

Resumes the K7 votes, because his predecessors had been going after him little to no reasoning given at the time of the vote besides that.

Jdtyer -

I want your thoughts on neko and an explanation of how you came to that conclusion.

There was something about Neko that made me a little suspicious, but I can't recall what or where it was. Its tough to jump in during day 3, read the posts, and keep track of where stuff was that caught my attention.

As far as K7, here are my thoughts. When looking at voting history, his history struck me as suspicious. Some of the vote switching back and forth, as well as who he voted for. And looking back at some of his posting patterns, they seem a little suspicious, some of it probably from some lurking. After looking back through the posts, I agree with K7 that RW seemed to be lurking towards the end of his life. But his response has still been kind of minimal, so my vote stays where it is, dude.

Shanba, I'm curious why you would want my thoughts on Neko, since I'm so new to this game, and the game in general?

When asked to elaborate on Neko, he merely says ‘I seem to remember something suspicious…’ then he continues his case against K7. Note that both jtdyer and Rom have been using the ‘Well X has stuck me as scum but I can’t remember where’ excuse and have do nothing about it to find where it was.

Jdtyer -

I want your thoughts on neko and an explanation of how you came to that conclusion.

There was something about Neko that made me a little suspicious, but I can't recall what or where it was. Its tough to jump in during day 3, read the posts, and keep track of where stuff was that caught my attention.

Shanba, I'm curious why you would want my thoughts on Neko, since I'm so new to this game, and the game in general?

I need to have some content from you in order to get a rad on your alignment. Neko is a player I was having difieculty reading, and I wanted, therefore, a fresh perspective. I felt it would be helpful to have you try and quantify some sort of position on a player.

Shanba, I reread through some posts, and for the most part Neko doesn't strike me as suspicious, although I'm a little hesitant to write him off. I would still like some more from K7, the little that I got from him wasn't very helpful. But since skitzer is one of the other guys on my list of suspicions, I'll

unvote, vote: skitzer

.

Interaction with Skitzer. Possible bussing and drops the case against K7 suddenly for little reason other then ‘Skitzer is on my list of suspicions.’ But you would also have to assume that K7 was on his list at this point as well. This was the hammering vote on Skitzer, if I am reading correctly.

happy scumday mod.

thanks

i guess ill read on klebian as well when i read on

ross

and tsn.

Ross is gone, its jtdyer now. Although I get what you are saying.

And Neko, right before K7's post, you mentioned something. Yes, I did realize I was casting the final vote. Like was previously mentioned, the game wasn't going anywhere; Skitzer was another person on my list of suspicions as I read through the thread. And I didn't realize how fast I was posting after Klebian, I only noticed after you mentioned it that it was only a couple hours' difference.

Answering the question about why he hammered.

I feel torn. I kind of can see TSN as scum, but not entirely. The same with klebian. I'm gonna go a different direction, and

vote: Eldritch Lord

. I became a little suspicious of Justing yesterday. I feel like sometimes his posts seemed to be scum-hunting, but they were throwing suspicion in the wrong direction. His posts seemed full of substance, but bad substance.

In-Game: Jtdyer, are there specific points of Justin's posts that I can address for you?

There wasn't anything specific, some of it just gives off the sense of scumness.

Once again, he can’t give any specific points or posts or quotes about his case against Justin/El. This is an easy cop out.

Neko, you were right when you said that gut isn't a good argument for convincing people, so

unvote

. I don't see Korlash as being scum, he just seems to be goofing off a little, which seems natural, but not scummy (Korlash, if you are scum, I hope that comment doesn't get my lynched). I'm not sure who to vote for, and don't want to just vote for someone because of my instincts, because according to Neko that isn't smart. I was a little suspicious of TSN the first couple days, there were a lot of accusations flying his way, and he didn't seem to be defending himself super well. But I think he did a better job of defending himself in day 3, so I wouldn't be ready to vote for him. I'm not sure about Klebian. I could agree a little with lynching him, but couldn't point to any direct reason why, so a vote for him would be contradictory, right?

When you guys reread the thread, do you start at the beginning, or how do you do it?

Seems to buddy up to Neko a little bit in this post. Also mentions Kleb and says he would vote for him if it wasn’t out of a gut feeling.

Neko, as far as me asking for direction, this is my first game, I was asked if I wanted to be a replacement, and I said yes, so I'm still learning. Kleb, you're not voting (although I haven't yet either), what are your thoughts (and no, I'm not asking for direction, Neko - ?

Newbie card has been thrown out there. Never something I like to see but everyone gets one.

Vote: Klebian

, because I agree with TSN's and Korlash's reasonings.

Last vote before being replaced, agreeing with TSN who he has found suspicious and Korlash. Not giving any reasoning of his own.

[ClockworkRuse]

Jtdyer is replaced by Romanus.

Ok, I just finished reading Day one, and only day one.

Taking into consideration that I know the alignment of some of the folks, and reading it with that in mind, my top two suspects are

(drumroll please)

Korlash
Near

Just so you know what my thoughts are at the current moment.

After I completely finish reading, I will put together some sort of argument of what my points are against who I finally decide is scum.

cheers

Emphasis added. He knew the alignment of some of the folks? Would you care to explain that Rom?

The absolute worse case scenario is that the Doc gets hit tonight and we lose all sorts of info.

I am for the doc outing himself and who he protected.

The Doc's info does more than just give us a 1 in 4 or 1 in 3 shot. This is not random. We get INFORMATION. Knowing alignment is invaluable and far outweighs any sort of blindly throwing a dart at a board with the odds being in our favor.

What strikes me as odd is that no one mentioned the lack of NK till now.

Of course, I also leave the decision where it belongs, with the doc. It is his call and should not be forced.

Also, I have all sorts of theories and whatnot, but I am going to keep them to myself until this issue is resolved. There is way too much at stake for me to reveal too much.

My previous suspicions stand:

Near
Korlash

Really torn between the two.

Wants the doc to out himself and continues to say his suspicions are of Near and Korlash without posting any reasoning behind it.

Well, it is crap like telling everyone about the breadcrumbs, that could or could not be that put scum on the scent and allow the scum to come up with ways around it.

Again, I leave it to the doc.

I'm going to

vote: Near

I have a slightly more scummy feeling from Near over Korlash. I will say that it is heavily based on Day one activity which anyone can see, but I also know few will read. I do not have specific references, that will require a second reread, which will take till at least tomorrow.

It is based on the interaction between the two known scum and Korlash and Near.

Once again, this turns into a mention of ‘I have reasons but I can’t remember what they are. I’ll post them tomorrow.’ It seems that each incarnation of Opposed Force has used this as an excuse for a vote.

I don't want to say anymore about the doc thing. Discussion of the scumminess of Korlash and Near are perfectly fine.

Was all for outing the doctor just a few posts back and now suddenly wants all discussion to stop.

Yes, I think it was a bus.

As for me not wanting to reveal too much, that was really for myself. I didn't want to put too much out there. So, yes, I changed my mind a bit. Forgive me, I just read through 36 pages and wanted to get my own mind straight.

Doesn’t want to reveal much about what he is thinking, which the day before endgame is very bad indeed.

I really don't see Eldritch Lord as scum. I have read his posts in isolation and just don't see it.

I still favor a Korlash lynch

Yet when Alabaska replaced in suddenly he was one of his top suspects.

I'm in the midst of gathering my thoughts on Korlash. I will be posting them in a day or so. I would encourage everyone to take a look at Korlash (don't remember who he was then) when the scum were lynched. His behavior seems a little odd.

Again, I will spell this out with my next post.

Another cop out, he doesn’t explain why Korlash is odd in his next post.

K7, you don't get to make a statement like that, this late in the game without some sort of backup. Give me a reason. As far as I am concerned everyone is a suspect and needs to be looked at.

Unless you have a compelling reason for me not making a case against Korlash, which I would love to hear, then I will be looking through for it.

Possibly trying to get the doctor outted again.

EL's posts when the town eventually lynched klebian is definitely scummy. Not sure if I have this right, but I believe he was the first to jump on that wagon, but there was a good bit of talk before it.

I am doing some spotty rereading. This is something that jumped out at me. There had to be scum on Klebian's wagon, IMO, and EL looks like he might be it.

Will continue investigating.

Now he is suspicious of El, so the last post about El isn’t quite as suspicious.

I demand that the doc, protected one, and the breadcrumbs need to be outed. This is an important lynch and this is info that needs to be out in the air. The scum are more interested in finding that breadcrumb that a townie would be. Frankly I don't have time to do that careful a reread.

After rereading I am really on the fence. Al J really made the case I was going to make on Korlash and then some. He hit every point that I picked up on. However, it is not definite, especially after my reread of Al J.

Thing is I've seen it happen so many times that when two guys are at each other like this they turn out to both be townies that made each other look scummy.

That is not completely true in this case, their posts that had nothing to do with each other make them both look scummy in my eyes.

I want the Doc info to help me get off the fence. New reread with fresh info should do it.

Oh, and

Unvote

Now this is a pretty defining post. First, he demands the doctor and who was protected be outted, with the excuse that he can’t re-read one day where the no kill happened. I feel like this is just a cop out.

He also goes with Alabaska’s reasoning for Korlash being scum saying ‘Al J really made the case I was

going to make on Korlash and then some.

Rom said he was going to post a case on Korlash on Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 3:04 pm and agrees with Ala on Sat Jul 05, 2008 3:50 am. So in that time, he couldn’t make a case against Korlash?

Bolded part is

exactly

what happened. I think that Rom knew what was going on and even made a comment on it.

Many great and humble apologies to ClockworkRuse for the misspelling of his name.

I believe there is about 6 hours to deadline. I wish ClockR would have at least expressed his intentions.

I will give ClockR a chance to vote, hammer Al J if that is what he wants to do. If he votes other than Al J, I am going to hammer Al J.

My reasoning is simple enough. I don't want a deadline lynch. We, the town, need to lynch. At most the wagon has one scum on it. If Al J comes up town, I am pretty sure I know who the scum is on the wagon. We do have a mislynch in our pocket.

I predict the doctor is going to die tonight, which will clear someone else.

I'll have access throughout the day.

Trying to give the hammer to someone else and then expressing that if I didn’t hammer Ala that he was going to.

Also, there is that damning statement that he knew the doctor was going to die that night. I still think he’s just patting himself on the back, saying that he had finally found the doctor.

The reason I am being somewhat silent is that my two top suspects turned out to be town. Now, I did suspect that Korlash was the doctor, even before the breadcrumbs.

I purposefully didn't go back and try to find the breadcrumbs because I really just don't like that stuff.

He might have well just claimed. It got him killed anyway.

Enough about the very bad play of Korlash.

I am going back to my first reread notes and going to do a somewhat quick reread to see what I can see.

Shanba pinged pretty hard earlier for me IIRC.

Now that what he predicted has come true, he feels the urge to be quite at end game. Not looking for the Doctor crumbs is still scummy in my opinion. He’s the only one who says he didn’t know who the doctor was and I think that is an attempt to get people to not focus on him so much as ‘I couldn’t have killed Korlash! I didn’t know he was the doctor!”

What I meant by going to sleep was that day was over, that's all. Whether we won or not, it would be night since the end of day is the lynch.

What I meant by having a mislynch in our pocket was that we wouldn't lose if we mislynched.

I thought that if Al J came up town and Korlash lived through the night, Korlash would be obv scum.

And if I thought the Al J wagon was obv wrong I would have said so. I didn't. In fact I stated that I was ok with the Al J wagon.

I'm blaming Korlash for all this nonsense. His doctor crap just confused everyone and took our focus off of scum hunting.

I do not like the fact that CR was able to cruise and not get a vote down or even declare himself. At best -- anti-town. At worste -- Scum.

Right now ClockworkRuse is my lynch candidate.

Another rather defining post. Here’s why;

First, it seems that he was okay with a mislynch yesterday based off of this. Then he proceeds to blame Korlash for the mislynch and ‘taking our focus off of scum hunting.’ I don’t really see how the doctor matter took

that

much out of hunting yesterday. Maybe Rom’s

lack

of hunting yesterday would have been a better cause of that?

And I’d like to note that this is the first case that any of the OpposedForce incarnations have pushed that HASN’T BEEN A GUT FEELING.

The addition of the IF was because someone brought up that point before.

If people don't post, there is no way we are going to win this game. If you are a townie, please, please, pretty please, post. It is way too easy for scum to stay under the radar right now.

Contradicting later discussion. I’ll bring it up again when I get to that post.

Shanba did ping for me earlier. The non vote at deadline also concerned me. I'm going to have to go back and see what exactly pinged for me. Not sure when I am going to be able to do that, but soon.

K7, I just don't know about. I reread is in order.

Third cop out by saying ‘I felt he’s scum but I don’t remember why.’

I am reading. Going back to my original notes, during my first readthrough, Shanba, now CR, pinged very hard. I'm going to have to find what it was I was seeing.

Right now, I put him at the top. The lack of a vote by deadline only more so puts him up there.

K7 just looks townie to me.

Actually, I'm going with ClockworkRuse.

It's between K7 and CR. CR is much more scummy to me.

My vote is unofficially on Clockwork Ruse.

Hasn’t been posted yet AT ALL. Like all of his predecessors, he can say he’s going to go back and find what that one little detail was but he never does.

Writes K7 off as town WAY to easily. No re-read or reasoning behind it.

You can't answer for anything nor defend anything. I really don't have to explain anything because this is endgame.

If I had really solid evidence then I would present it. I really don't. I don't feel like sitting here and debating conjecture and a whole lot of WIFOM.

I can't PROVE anything. There is no proof to be made. All I have is my best guess, and you can FOS all you like.

This isn't page 4, it is endgame. Your FOS means nothing and sounds desperate and even more scummy.

As for what you want. About not liking my bland opinions. Oh well. It isn't my opinion as much as it is my vote. It may be bland but it counts just as much as any other, whether I give bland or spicy opinions.

The time for explaining theories is over. Townies need to make up their own damn minds.

Vote: ClockworkRuse

This is that contradictory post. Earlier he wanted discussion, but now that he has had time to say ‘OH, CR is scum’ he wants votes and no discussion. At this point, no one has touched him in a re-read and we’ve focused on K7. It would be very opportunistic to stop discussion right at that moment.

Everyone is suspicious. An FOS at the end of the game? What kind of non-committal stuff is that?

I'm suspicious of everyone. A Finger of Suspicion is laughable. Makes you look like you are coming after me, but not without a vote. It is a wishy-washy tactic that just makes you look even scummier.

Confirm Vote: ClockworkRuse

I really don't have anything else to contribute. I will be reading. If I change my mind I will certainly let you know.

Others need to make up their mind instead of casting suspicion and hoping others jump on before they commit.

Admits that he isn’t going to contribute to discussion and says that we need to vote now. There is no deadline, there is no rush to vote other then his bloodlust. Laughs at my FoS without really defending himself, saying that because I’m not voting for him at endgame is scummy. Which is something I really don’t understand.

I'm sorry, I completely misremembered how all that went as I have been focusing on the first couple days.

My real point is that CR gets to point at me for what I did at the end of yesterday when he did nothing at all but watch a townie, who I believe he knew was a townie, get lynched.

If anyone looks more scummy due to their actions at the end of yesterday, it is CR, not I.

Throwing around accusations with nothing to back them up, which I believe he was just telling us isn’t going to help town? He’s trying extra hard to push suspicion off of himself now.

Well, it seems that I am scummy because of my other incarnations mistakes, which I agree were troubling, but obviously nothing I can do to defend it.

However, you also called my behavior at the end of yesterday into question. Not sure if there is anything to explain, but I do have to say that I was so infuriated by the whole doc/breadcrumb thing that I'm not really surprised by how unfocused I was on scumhunting.

Every time I think about it my blood pressure goes up.

Apparently he was the only one then. The rest of us had found the crumbs and were actively hunting.

No, because even if I found them, they are not to be relied upon for reasons I have already stated.

I also did not wish to take the power away from the role, like a good townie. I should have just outed him.

Hindsight

Damning statement. He says he doesn’t know the doctor all game up until now.


Final thoughts; Each of the incarnations of OpposedForce have made "cases" by saying 'They pinged hard for me, I'll have to re-read and find out where and why" and never follow through.

Rom is really pushing hard to shift attention off of himself and the statements that he makes often are very damning. He is full of contradictions and opportunistic actions. After my re-read, I am even more convinced that he is scum.

Vote: Romanus

[ClockworkRuse]

I will just answer your first question

The alignments I knew, starting on day one, were the people who were already dead, and therefore everyone knew their alignment at that point.

1.

I just see a whole lot of: he was voting or suspicious of a townie, therefore scum; he was voting or suspicious of scum, he was bussing; he is arguing with a scum, therefore distancing; he was agreeing with a towine, therefore buddying up.

2.

As for my not following through on my promise for arguments, sorry. Many things have been going on in RL and did not give me the time to make a detailed argument like you just have. And yes, I have changed my mind, but that would seem to me to be more townie than scummy. If it is opportunistic, which is arguable, that is one thing. But being open to changing your mind on a person is a quality more townies should have. They are not contradictions if I just simply changed my mind.

3.

If I say I don't see the case, and then come back and say that I do, that is a change of mind, reading something differently.

As for the doc thing. It was a mess. I was and am the only one commenting on it. I've explained what I meant by those posts. I think my words are being twisted to mean things that they don't really mean.

In essence, I was saying I should have gone back and found the crumbs and outed the post, therefore the doctor. But like I also said, I left it to the doc.

4.

The other point I would like to make is that CR again wishes to make me look bad for making my position known at the end of yesterday and hammering, when he was the one who disappeared. I gave you the chance to hammer, but let everyone know that I would do it, and I did do it.

5.

And I did not wish to end discussion as much as I wanted everyone in there with their own opinions. People waiting to be convinced by others is not good.

Numbered sections are so I can respond to them easier.

1. Of course I'm going to looking at the interaction between you and known scum. The fact that I don't see you or the players you've placed as interacting with either of the scum and that you never really seem to have strong opinions on the cases against scum

IS

a cause for concern.

2. Yet when I bring real life into my play I'm scummy for it? That aside, you could have made those posts any other time you posted and you didn't. The players before you used the same tactic and I just don't buy it. Something about it is odd.

3. Agreed, it is good for town to be open to new ideas and cases. I'll have to read how I presented those points and make a response for them in my next post. However, it doesn't change my feelings of you being scum.

4. I've already answered why I wasn't able to vote before the deadline yesterday. I have some problems in real life regarding my girlfriend's friends, if you really must know. I found her a little more important then this game at the time.

5. The way you said that yesterday in no way sounded like you wanted us to just talk about our own opinions. You roughly said that the time for opinions was over, if I recall correctly.


Where is K7? I don't like how he's just sitting back now.

Mod: Could we please have a mass prod with an announcement that deadline is approaching?

[ClockworkRuse]

Just got back from work. I have to say I don't like the way k7 is lurking this out, either, but clearly he simply hasn't been around. He would have hammered by now if scum (and if paying attention). Still, I would hope he'd like to give some input, seeing as how it's endgame and all...


I'm still feeling more confident about a rom-lynch than a CR-lynch. I don't like Shanba's and CR's missing deadlines, but I don't see scum using that as any sort of strategy, so I have to believe it's merely coincidental. I don't see Shanba as the third part of the scum trio, either, whereas I can with jtdyer and RW. It just has to be rom. If k7 has strong reasons to think otherwise, I'd like to hear it.

I've seen K7 on at random times though, I'm going to see if he's been posting in any other games lately.

[ClockworkRuse]

Simply looking at his posts shows that he has been active but not posting here. D= I don't like that.

[ClockworkRuse]

i was pushing for the dealine extension to try and build a neko case. mod said no
i didnt know how to present it without gettin me lynched.
oh well congrats neko id rather you were the scum and won instead of the other 2 since me and you played this game for like 7 months.

I thought about suspecting him for a while, as it was really bad to leave him "cleared" like that. D=

Good game Neko.