Large Normal 229 | Manatee's Musical Mafia | Game Over

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First

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VOTE: Fwesnid

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Why did i join a 20+ game. Omg. Time to fight against the wagon dynamics of dogpiling on an random player.
Vigs better shoot tonight.

VOTE: Norwe

I will release you from the burden of a scum role pm.

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Hi reaver.

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Hi reaver.

Hey, I've been good since we last spoke. Yourself?

You probably remember my habits and back ground, and how I'm a beginning gamer when it comes to mafia. I hope we can work together as well in this game as we did before.

Yeah. I’m well. Driving with brother to San Francisco. 5 hour drive.

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Why did i join a 20+ game. Omg. Time to fight against the wagon dynamics of dogpiling on an random player.
Vigs better shoot tonight.

I finished reading Bananas just yesterday. You are good scum. Dangerous if red.

Good thing i'm green☆

Liar.

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It’s announcing.
Because scum say it is.
While town say it’s

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hey Reaver, why did you read that large game and when did you start reviewing it?

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hey Reaver, why did you read that large game and when did you start reviewing it?

I was bored waiting for this one to start and then the thread sucked me in. It was like binging a soap opera or a season of Game of Thrones.

I hoped it would help me become a better player. Mostly, it confused me.

I see, so when you got your role pm 2 days ago you started reading that game?

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Was thinking if your alignment in this game motivated you to read that game.
It seems like you tried to grasp their characteristics.

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Nope. She said she started reading it before she got the role pm. Nothing so far.

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In general, unless you’re really, really, really sure you know that player is scum you don’t shoot n1.

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Realllllllyyy don’t want to hear the great lurker debate again.

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But I already called norwee scum and i’m 1/1 on that guy.

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It’s announcing.
Because scum say it is.
While town say it’s

"Scum syntax" arguments are heresy.

VOTE: Bell


From my long experience of playing with Norweegian (1 game!), he screams town when he's town. My ears are open for the scream.

Was this a serious vote?

I did not know that you were in this game.
Alt slip.
K.
Moving on.

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It’s announcing.
Because scum say it is.
While town say it’s

"Scum syntax" arguments are heresy.

VOTE: Bell


From my long experience of playing with Norweegian (1 game!), he screams town when he's town. My ears are open for the scream.

You seem a little townie, why are you voting me?

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No one ever likes my openings.

I liked it, I totally saw what you saw in that quote.
But, asking for a friend, what did you see in that quote?

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VOTE: RozyRoz

One balloon for you.

I see people.

Light townread on Pickaxe Pete because he actually tries to generate AI discussion and ignores the NAI stuff

I thought this was sarcasm.

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Okay, how is Pete trying to generate AI discussion.

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You’re looking into the void and letting your brain come up with explanations with no evidence behind them.
He voted somebody who hasn't Replied to their role pm yet.

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You should probably investigate to find evidence for your speculations, or better yet, go in with an open mind and use the evidence to form AI reads.

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How much experience do you have in mafia Marshall?

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Plz cat scratch I have standards. I can’t just vote the lowest hanging fruit.
I have a non existent reputation to uphold

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Scum of course.

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At first I thought, no way is this goofy guy scum.
But then I read his first game here as mafia and he was super goofy.
But like, what if he’s just an easy miselimination, I should read another one<this is where i’m At.

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He is mad easy to wagon

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I have completed his second goofy scum game.

VOTE: marshall

Try not to accidentally hammer.

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Are we really reading into the reasons for which people read other games when they were bored? That looks like a prototype of NAI thing to me.

This reads like busywork to me. Fake attempt at looking like town doing things useful for town. Bell is my first scumread so far.

Wut

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*pats norwe on the head*

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VLA till monday helping brother move into student housing. Will probably still post just extremely limited phone posting.

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Super Bowl is pretty townie to me.
I’ve had that exact conversation as town like 3 times about moving games out of rvs with nothing but bs.

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I’m in a sort of vla limbo. I’m still here. I’m just doing it cause I might suddenly not be able to keep up with the game and am limited to phone posting. I’m not sure if this really qualifies as a vla.

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At the very least, i’ll Post at night at my hotel.

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I like my Marshall vote.

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It could be a paranoia vote.
I used to stick my vote on players I felt were good at manipulating me early game.

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Until I got actual reads anyway.

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You do feel very townie nero.
Do you like town blocks? Do you like gambling?
Wanna join my town block? (Town only).

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I have no feelings on Stan whatsoever.
I’m in watch mode on Norwe, they seem kinda burdened by a scum role pm, but maybe it’s just that the game is big

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He seems a bit negative.

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Also, he didn’t use the color green when he said he was town.

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You’re right, it isn’t a remarkable opportunity to pass up.
It’s a remarkable opportunity to take.

~Nero~Upfront, communicative, active, trying to push out of rvs.

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I’m not catching up. But reaver is town. Bowl is town and the votes on him are bad and you should feel bad.

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@marshall, you either misunderstood or strawmanned my opinion on you. I was saying that you’re goofy as both alignments. Also you’ve been in enough games here to adjust to the meta here, so that excuse doesn’t work at all.

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People have absolutely said what i’m About to say better. But he’s thinking laterally, but it’s all town perspective.

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Norwe, are you maf.

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“the solving of problems by an indirect and creative approach, typically through viewing the problem in a new and unusual light.“-google.

Just read him again.

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“the solving of problems by an indirect and creative approach, typically through viewing the problem in a new and unusual light.“-google.

Just read him again.

yeah you're going to have to bring concrete examples, I have read his ISO many times

I think you’re town.
Eh, I could be wrong. He just seems fearless. And he says he’s trying to interact with people and that’s what he’s doing.

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Just don’t stop thinking about him.
Kitty had a rly good d1 and the mena troll taught me that you should never really stop questioning your reads(even though I was right cough*)

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^this is painful. Because I have a notes section up and I said I should avoid being pocketed by Super Bowl.

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I’m not sure yet to be honest.
Thought you were scum on an early post then realized I didn’t misinterpreted what you meant.

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16 players have posted in a 21 player game?

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Not complaining, manatee.
Just giving myself some perspective.

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howdy

Hi.
Glitch, if it’s not fatal, could you be a little more concise. At least until you have something stronger to work with.

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1 to 3 maybe.

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I have one hard town read and a few town leans and people i’m Skeptical of.
In other words I have no idea which 3.

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because you asked.

Norwe, NPOM, Marshal, townlooter, glitch, Jackson, lapsa, offsuit, fwesnid, pickaxe, Stanley.

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It’s day one my man.

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I’m kind of picky. A player can post once and destroy a strong town read or vice versa to me. Nothing i’ve Seen from any of those players has really grabbed me and told me what they are yet.

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Sure.

VOTE: glitch

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I respect 612.

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Nah, being able to reread and make sure you have your facts straight is very townie.

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Ralph, what are your thoughts on the players so far?
Do you have any suspicions on who is mafia?

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@marsh I was talking about Super Bowl, not you with the lateral thinking.
Okay i’ll Take your word that it isn’t a meta thing but a you thing

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Scum hate the Super Bowl.

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It could be a paranoia vote.
I used to stick my vote on players I felt were good at manipulating me early game.

Are you talking about your Marshmallow vote or the NoPowerOverMe vote referenced in the post above yours?

And why did you feel the need in 387 to state that you like your Marshmallow vote?

I think I missed the response to these questions.

Sorry missed this.
1. I was talking about Norwe’s vote on me.
2. Trying to keep attention there. Since I think it’s an interesting wagon/interesting response.

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I like your Jackson vote btw.

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Rigidly narrow like that blue arrow

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I would currently like to see a wagon on glitch or/and virgo.

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I think he’s talking about my Marshall vote.
Is This gimmick Ralph or can you write more clearly?

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tell me if im wrong bus is"nt most survivor expert at playing

This one I get. I’m not sure how you get the survivor tag. I thought it had to do with surviving to the end as a 3rd party. Which is difficult yes.

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Nero and lickity are the only two with the survivor tag this game I think.

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Oh. Thanks.
175 to go.
What do you think of Virgo entrance Norwe?

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VOTE: JacksonVirgo

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To me it looks like a clumsy scum entrance and his feet aren’t planted well.

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When I say clumsy I mean inoffensive, cautious, like he has to choose carefully who his friends and enemies are.

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I happily disagree with you.

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If you want to get into that particular discussion we can do it now or we can do it when the game is over.

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Hi virgo.
I think you’re scum!

Have you caught up yet?

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Click on your own name bottom right corner shows total posts says you have 2407

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2249*

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Said another way, you’re thinking about how to adapt to people.

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Sure, My friend.

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^ “you’re being slow this game(probably referring to only commenting on this awhile after lapsa wrote his comment), but the game isn’t as fast. Why is it role fishing? I don’t like you”-Ralph.

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Why not both.

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bell should come back to glitch and nopower should join us

VOTE: Glitch

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Super bowl votes continue to be gross.

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I think there’s a 25% chance that there is scum on your wagon.

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Thank you for making this happen. love the music by the way.

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It’s one of those ambiguous posts where it could be scum telling hiraki he’s totally wrong, totally right, a put down for semi arrogant wording, Or just a denial that he’s scum and making fun of Hiraki for it.

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Npom, correct me if I’m wrong, but you seem to have a pretty black and white view on things from what I’ve seen of you so far and a little skimming of your games. Would you mind sharing a few of your takes? (Npom and hiraki are not both scum together)

I’m going to take it slow in regards to hiraki reads.

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You weren’t bussing though. you immediately called him arrogant on entry and that’s not what bros do. You’re probably still right.

I don’t particularly mind which reads you give me, whoever catches your eye that you haven’t mentioned I guess.

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You should probably interact with everyone. But aight.

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^townie perspective.

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You don't?

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Even if there's flips? That's hardcore.

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Well, you do you. I doubt you'll change now and I guess you're more of an interactive type.
I'm town by the way. Are you scum?

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I still really want to eliminate Virgo tbh.

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Yeah, a freudian slip is where you say outloud subconscious feelings.

For example, a partner might say "I want a divorce." Outloud, but hadn't really reached that conclusion consciously until then.

Freud is a hack tho.

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Are you sure you're not scum Virgo? This is a high fluff to hunting ratio you got goin' on.

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Are you sure you're not scum Virgo? This is a high fluff to hunting ratio you got goin' on.

I don't love JV but I definitely don't love this.

Please don't defend people you know because you know them.

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Okay. Thanks for the context Virgo.

pedit: From the way you worded it, I assumed you knew him.
Pedit2: Oh, I'm not sure what to say to that.

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It would have been nice if you were.

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Thanks for stopping by.
Take care out there.

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Well, try again.

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Yeah! Thanks.

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Reaver is awesome.
Cool post.

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No, MM is incomprehensible as either alignment.

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Mile wide gaps and logic and missing the point, not understanding or failing to comprehend nuance is pretty much par for the course.
Misunderstandings ahoy.

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Look Marsh, your vote on nero is like, 95% likely to be town. vote elsewhere.
I've literally never seen scum act like nero is rn.
He's super obv town. And you can quote me and make fun of me forever if I'm wrong.

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Let's put this out there

GLITCH IS AT L-1 DO NOT VOTE HIM FURTHER UNTIL WE GET A CLAIM

Great,
Glitch, why aren't you mafia this game? Who do you think on your wagon might be mafia? Or just in general, who do you think is mafia.

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Who would you expect to quick~hammer?? I am already on the wagon. FL & N_M are not in the game. Who -from this players list- has the balls (or is enough of a troll) to quickhammer and hope to get away with it?

Lapsa, Dexter, Marshall, or you know, anybody who drunk posts.


@Kitty, read back at my progression from 1 meta read game to two meta read games to, Idk what he is anymore.

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Liking the Glitch wagon because most of the people there i TR/feel good about.

Meh, I have 3 null reads on this wagon. Even if I were town reading them all that doesn't mean we're hitting scum.

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It's pointing out that town don't know who the scum are and that so a wagon of mostly town does not mean we're hitting scum. It's a put down for optimism because I'm lame like that.

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^"NoPowerOverMe is arguing just because. I think he's scum for this"

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kinda think SJR might be scum.

Nope.

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She's a newbie. It would be very hard for her to play this cleanly as mafia her first time in.

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You'll need to specify which assumption I'm making.
I guess you could say that I assumed she didn't lie when she said she was new.

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But that's a pretty good assumption given the trail of evidence that points to this being the case.

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Waiting for glitch to post.
We can agree to disagree. I don't think she's scum though. For a bunch of different reasons.
If you think she's scum you'll need to explain yourself.

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How’d that norwee double check go Hiraki?

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In his opening post he said he would reread an old game he had with you to see if how you were playing here was typical.

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Huh, Why A50 in your town pile Reaver?

Hi glitch.

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You walked right into that one.

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I see Reaver, uh in that case you should probably put him into the null slot and defend him as needed, if he's competent townie he'll naturally raise in your estimation when he gets poked by other player.

...I don't know what to do with the glitch claim. He wasn't really posting like a PR when he showed up.
I like the fwesnid vote.
Could also Vote Hiraki.

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I'd appreciate it if more experienced players could weigh in on Glitch claim.

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Yeah i can go to 72, reaver, I think Fwesnid has a better chance getting off the ground outside of us two tho.

I'll join you for now. VOTE: Fwesnid
You're lurky scum.

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I don't have much of an opinion on Sta1nley other than that his reads are bad.

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Okay, but since you're scum are you bussing your partner or.

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Ah poo, he went back to lurking.

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@Hiraki, does this mean you believe Glitch's claim?

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Sure.

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Of course I do.

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You're late to the obv town bell wagon.
But I am magnanimous. You may obvtown read me.

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^"I politely decline"

Didn't think I would have to translate two people here, but there you go.
Bed time.

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Huh, Why A50 in your town pile Reaver?

We're Masons! (Not really, but people ALWAYS ask such silly questions that could potentially lead to exposing Masons all the time). Can't/couldn't you just take it down as a note for now and come back to it on D2/D3 for example?

I have no idea how you differentiate between town power roles and scum.


@jackson, sadly accurate. Also, be well.

@sta1nley, I guess maybe i’ll Make a case for Nero town later. Or not.

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K, get off the glitch wagon I just read his last post.

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How is that different from my Marshall quick hammer take?

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Oh. I meta’d Marshall and concern trolled everyone not to quick hammer. When the votes got going on him. Because he’s kind of clumsy as either alignment. Town looter did something similar.

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Are you trying to save fwesnid here.

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Oh norwe. That vote is going to bite you in the ass.

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It looks opportunistic.
Take it from someone with a scum game you respect.(I am not a good scum player).

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I hope people meta me one day so I don’t have to say this more. I’m not an alt.
But my previous accounts were remembrance and Knell. I forgot the passwords for both haven’t been here for 6 years. I just got into the mood again.

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I am just bell whether i’m In your heart or not.

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Kitty!
Welcome.

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Imagine writing a wall full of nothing but pointing out the obvious while forgetting to look at who on his wagon might be scum.

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That's not much different than what you had before your wagon.

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To look at who's votes felt most unnatural, which player's reasons sucked the most, etc.
You said you felt kind of stuck/lost earlier. That still the case?

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Not much Hiraki, he's just posting once or twice per day and watching.
Depends whether you believe he just doesn't know what to do in RVS/ can't get a grasp of the game or whether he's just scum. He hasn't posted much so iso'ing him shouldn't be a problem.

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@fwesnid, try shaking them a little. Like a tree. Like this.

"Why are people voting Fwesnid, why are you not voting Fwesnid and somebody else?" "If fwesnid isn't scum who is/who is scum on his wagon?"

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Hi offsuit.
Could you answer it again anyway. Just one or two words.

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And then you voted Fwesnid.

You just put him at E-1 by the way.

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VOTE: Offsuit

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post 1139 isn't early.

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Eliminate all liars.

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I do see that he updated his list though!

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Sigh he didn't even vote obvious scum before he left while eating.
So much for that interaction.

There's not much in the way of explanations for his reads in his iso.
He OMGUS moved SJR and Marshall into his reads list. He seems kind of grumpy and jaded.

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Hi Norwe,
What do you think of Offsuit?

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Wait, Offsuit come back.
Why am I bussing my partner.

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That man makes no sense at all.
I'm sure he'll repost soon though.

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His scum list is certainly an uphill fight if he plans to get those eliminations though. That's not very mafiaish.

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On the otherhand, he just voted Fwesnid which is not uphill.

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Bleh, I'm going to bed.
Sorry for the spam. I should probably just put all my thoughts in one post instead of whenever they come to me.

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I'm going to go reread all 67 pages and then make a vote.
I will likely be wrong showing that effort means nothing.

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Up to page 17.

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MM’s posts this page is solidifying my TR of him.

First question on reread: Why did those posts solidify your TR of MM?

#436: Town looter: Why did you have a reasonably strong TR read of Fwesnid based on his post in #384? *Answered by a question glitch posed to him.

#538 Bowl: Why were you Town reading Norwe at this stage of the game?

@Virgo why did you lean scum on Norwe in your opening post? *Answered in second wall post*

Page 28. I'm Dying.

Only thing I really got from all this so far is that I think Jackson is scum.

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Ah, Fwesnid claimed. poo.

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It occurs to me I really should have done this reread earlier.
I don't think I'll be able to read the whole thing and participate at the end of deadline at the same time.

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Nah, don't blame them, it's pretty much our fault for not being able to distinguish the difference or how we decided to approach Fwesnid. If we slow rolled it we might have had a better chance of jumping off and staying off by giving him more time to show he was town.

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Kind of Reaver. Jackson is my pet vanity wagon but due to the deadline there's not really a right way to approach that elimination IMO and I'm not sure I could convince other players to vote them based off of some familiarity with their opening posts in the game.

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Not sure I like bells reaction.

I'm going to ignore this because it was just my honest reaction. Not great.

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Well, pretty much to me Fwesnid is confirmed town and a useful role. So you can see why I would be sad about contributing to his wagon.

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Gunsmith is the one that checks for guns.

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Before I do that Jack, I already did that and noted it in that post you just misread.

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Look at the asterisk. While I was catching up I had questions and subsequent posts while I was reading answered them such as your second post which was a case on norwe

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VOTE: Jackson Virgo

Blind vote.

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@Mod, do you give fake claims to the mafia?

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VOTE: Lapsa

@Pete, I don't think so.

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He hinted that he knew more about the set up than he should.
If mafia get fake claims or if their roles give hints to the set up his posts make sense in that context.

So, probably?
I'm making a bunch of leaps in logic.

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No, this is a serious vote for me Nero Cain.
He gave hints he knew more than he should.
The multi vig set up and the condescension fit well with the idea of an informed minority that dropped hints because he thought he wouldn't get caught/He's playing up a fake claim he had.

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He could just be a gun miller or something but he would have claimed at the beginning I think?

@Nerocain, Maybe that's difficult though, people slip up on that wording all the time.

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If he gets to L-1, won't we have to wait for his replacement to claim? Because there's also one other group of people who know more about the set-up than VTs.

VOTE: Lapsa

Promise me you'll take a second look at 72 tomorrow if this goes through.

Promise, But I already iso'd all his posts.

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The Lapsa thing didn't really click for me until Pete suddenly unvoted him.

[Bell]

Alisae, Cain, stahp.
Listen to what I just said.

Does what I just said make sense to either of you?

[Bell]

No, I just decided I can't get a good grasp on him.
So sure we can eliminate him day two or he can play better.

[Bell]

I take full responsibility if he flips town.
Or scum.
Preferably the latter.

[Bell]

i'll follow bell

VOTE: Lapsa

This is a good idea if you enjoy winning.

inb4 he flips town.

[Bell]

I feel like this is relatively irrelevant. They weren't compatible one of them was nice enough to step off and avoid making the game difficult for other players to enjoy.

Do you have any opinions on the game state rn Hiraki?

[Bell]

I'm saying that you two together weren't compatible. Not that you, by yourself, made the game unenjoyable.

Of course you'd flip town. You've been obv town for awhile.

[Bell]

Hey, it's mornin and before I head off to life I would like to own up to misreading Lapsa and not realizing he was probably making a joke about the conversations related to vig chat.
Also, Virgo I respect your effort.
Glad we have a pause to reconfigure our heads.
Lapsa replaced out so it shouldn't really matter as the replace in should produce content.
yeah, day 1, there's been a lot so we should eliminate someone soon.

UNVOTE:

[Bell]

Offsuit needs a hug.

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I do. I just got speedwagoned last game. Prefer not 2 in a row. Regardless of alignment.

*hugs* There there. I get that.

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Without the fake claims provided by the mod (who confirmed he did not provide any)
The only thing the scum team have to go on is whatever their roles are.

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I thought Lapsa due to the vig comment might have had fake claims in his mafia PT that gave a hint to the set up.
With that gone, a lot of hints are either baiting for an NK by VT or actual PR's.
Unless the scum team is particularly inventive and enjoys coming up with fake claims I guess.

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I kind of think that A50 is disruptive which is a scum playbook move imo.
He's trying to shake the game up when, to me the most aggressive town have mostly recognized each other.

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@A50:
I'm responding to some of this. But I'm not going to do quotes.

1. Nerocain has the most posts in the game. He's clearly involved in every detail of the game. Meta reads from multiple players stated that he lurks as scum. His passion for hunting for scum is pretty clear. He's picking fights with people in a way that I doubt scum would get involved in. He has interacted with most players, mentioned most players evolved his reads on most players. Convincingly expresses doubt and double checks his own posts and accusations to make sure he's getting it right instead of just flinging bs and hoping it sticks. There's really no way he's scum this game. (I actually agree with the NPOM you're fooling yourself if you think you know someone is town day 1. I'm not particularly a great player as either alignment). Put differently I strongly lean town on Kain and would eliminate almost anyone else on the playerlist over him day 1.

2. Reaver: I've played with Reaver in another newbie game as masons. Her posts in this game are thoughtful, do not appear at all like an informed minority might (i.e., her development of her reads does not look like someone working backwards from knowing someone is town and explaining why they are than the other way around), she seems to have interacted with most people in the player list. She's buddying me in a way that doesn't read like manipulation. Everything she has said in this game based on what I know of her fits well with a running narrative of adapting to site meta after getting scolded by other players and fits a town narrative more than a scum narrative imo.

3. Superbowl has been pretty consistent in regards to playstyle and thoughtfulness. He plays what I see as intermediate town. Somebody that knows the game well enough to understand and interpret what is being done between the lines. He is not using that information to appear town or to dumb himself down to miss the points others are making. He's not using that information in anyway that I see towards anything other than a town win condition. He's being assertive and confident in a townie manner, which I understand can be faked but if you look at what he asserts it's pretty consistently town.

^ Those are my strongest town reads.

As for the "You don't have to say everything that's on your mind"
Well, you're not wrong. Though this sounds like a playstyle complaint. I play this way in part because I don't believe I'm a particularly great scum hunter. So I choose to be as transparent as possible to make it difficult for mafia to miseliminate me or for town to misidentify me . Before you get all "that's wifom" on me I'm aware. But I'm not sure what to say to that. If you want to criticize playstyle we can talk about it after the game is over. I would very much welcome the advice, since I would like to improve at Mafia.

Jason's effort posts have made my scum read of him a lot weaker.

Norwe is giving me mixed signals, but I do agree with whoever said that he's going to self-sort himself later in the game just from sheer activity and implicating himself (or clearing himself) based on his votes.

[Bell]

We're not eliminating Fwesnid.

[Bell]

Why in the world do you think that's a possibility?

[Bell]

^ Is this a gut read?

[Bell]

I just wanna eliminate scum
Oh~ I just wanna have fun.

[Bell]

1. That’s not a no or yes.
2. How?
3. That's not arbitrary at all!