Mafia 82: International (Game Over)

[Citizen Karne]

I'm sorry, I have been a little caught up with school as of late, and have not been able to post for three days. I apologize for any inconvenience and will finish my read and post.

[Citizen Karne]

Erm, can I sign the treaty?

[Citizen Karne]

I'm here; I play tennis for my school and have had two meets in a row. I am nearly finished however, and you can likely expect a post tomorrow. I

do

apologize for taking so long.

[Citizen Karne]

This game is difficult to re-read.

Was PeterGriffin replaced?

[Citizen Karne]

Ah.

Re-reading armlx now.

Also, this post is unrelated to the one above it.

[Citizen Karne]

armlx, why the early flip-flop on nhat? I've read your posts but do not see a suitable answer for what I am asking. You claim he was just being unreasonable and not scummy, and then you vote him, and then unvote him. This seems like distancing to me. Disagreeing with someone and calling them town simultaneously, then voting them for a short period and unvoting them as soon as they become "reasonable." However, just because he has become reasonable doesn't mean his past actions are null and void! Scum can clean up their act, yes? I dislike your handling of the nhat situation, and your lack of attention to Dynamo. Can you restate your reasons for voting him/her now please?

Thank you in advance.

[Citizen Karne]

Misrepresentation and voting based on another's reasoning are also scum tells.

FoS: Cyberbob

I understand the first one but the second one is confusing. Why would voting based on someone else's reasoning be a scumtell? Surely others can make good points.

Unvote EA

because deadline is approaching and I never actually wanted to lynch him.

surely this is some kind of joke?

armlx seems to be the hot topic right now, but I don't really see the problem with him. in a game this size it's easy to lose focus on your vote - I just realised that my vote's still sitting on bm for no particular reason at this point.

unvote

vote: cephrir

for the above clanger.

I agree with you that cephrir's above post is quite odd but do you have any other reason to vote him?

Also, my gut read on Dynamo is disgruntled, poorly playing town, but my mind says I'm giving him far too much credit for his newbie card. I feel I shall end up voting him today, but not just yet.

FoS: armlx

for not replying to my questions yet. Please, you can take your time, but do not ignore them all together.

[Citizen Karne]

Hello, all. There were some unexpected computer problems on my end. I

do

apologize for my lack of content, and am currently reading what I missed.

[Citizen Karne]

Also, I strongly believe Netlava to have tried to bus Dynamo, and to have failed miserably. In my mind, we may have just caught two scum.

Also, EA's vote on BM seems quite OMGUS to me, and BM's play, while frustrating, seems just like Battle Mage being Battle Mage.

I feel we should lynch Dynamo today, and if he turns scum,

very seriously consider

lynching Netlava tomorrow. I am also willing to do this vice versa, but would prefer Netlava to be lynched first.

[Citizen Karne]

Also, I strongly believe Netlava to have tried to bus Dynamo, and to have failed miserably. In my mind, we may have just caught two scum.

Also, EA's vote on BM seems quite OMGUS to me, and BM's play, while frustrating, seems just like Battle Mage being Battle Mage.

I feel we should lynch Dynamo today, and if he turns scum,

very seriously consider

lynching Netlava tomorrow. I am also willing to do this vice versa, but would prefer Netlava to be lynched first.

Why would you say we need to lynch Dynamo today and then say you prefer Netlava to be lynched first?

I'm sorry. That should read: I prefer Dynamo to be lynched first.

[Citizen Karne]

First off, my internet is acting up again. It's fine now, but could go down suddenly over the next few days. Just to let you know. In light of this, I will have to give up my hammer to another player to avoid us not having enough votes to lynch.

vote: DynamoXI

Secondly, raider, did you see my post clarifying the mistype I made that you asked about? In case you missed it, it is here, at the top of this page.

Thirdly, I am just as baffled as armlx is at the sudden uneasiness in association with a DynamoXI lynch. I believe if we do not lynch him today, there will be repercussions later in the game, such the fact that he will be a major lynch candidate for many in the following days based on his day one play, even assuming he does not make any other glaringly scummy posts (which, in my opinion, is not likely). I think it would more than wise to lynch him, gain information, possibly (in my opinion probably) eliminate a mafioso, and move on to day two, where I believe we should concentrate on Netlava. It is too easy for us to WIFOM our way out of a lynch by saying, "Well, he is a noob." Noobs can be scum too, last time I checked. Now, I'm not saying there is no way he can be town; there is always the possibility of a mislynch. However, I feel that possibility is fairly small here, and that we should get votes, a claim, and a hammer if the claim falls through.

No use in stalling this out; let's get down to business here people.

[Citizen Karne]

I dislike hasdgfas' FoS on Cream. I think the fact that he was against the wagon makes it irrelevant either way. I know I'm parroting here, but it needed repeating, I felt.

[Citizen Karne]

Seeing as I felt very strongly about voting Netlava today, some people may feel this is being hypocritical.

At the moment, I do not support a Netlava wagon.

[Citizen Karne]

Seeing as I felt very strongly about voting Netlava today, some people may feel this is being hypocritical.

At the moment, I do not support a Netlava wagon.

got any reasons for that?

This is subject to change.

Answer this for me: Do you believe full disclosure at all times is good for the town?

[Citizen Karne]

Alright. I now agree with the Netlava wagon.

Waiting to hammer though

[Citizen Karne]

seems counterproductive.

It wasn't in context of how CK was saying it. Until he said he was ok with it then, I assumed it was a soft claim of cop w/ innocent on Netlava.

No, just saw something I needed to consider.

I understand what Netlava is saying; I think he was scum trying to knock off an inno more likely than town swaying to the big wagon. Only time you sway is to hammer an inevitable wagon to prevent stalling, IMO.

Also, diction and word choice make me feel he is more scum than town.

[Citizen Karne]

I say we should get Netlava out of the way today and look into Korts and whatnot tomorrow.

I hate to look tunnel-visioned but I'm having trouble focusing elsewhere; his play just seems scummy to me.

He is looking honest now, Cass, because he is trying to. He had no reason to look honest before.

[Citizen Karne]

Netlava's play is scummy, and everyone has been defending it by saying its too scummy to be scum, which is just bull shit.

I would normally agree with you but after dynamo I think this may be along the same lines and he might just turn up town.

Netlava is not a newbie. I've seen him around.

Just because you mislynched once doesn't mean you should WIFOM yourself out of every lynch for the rest of the game, my friend.

[Citizen Karne]

Lowell, what is your definition of "fine with" a lynch?

Well, I said "live with"... so there.

I mean he's not going to make my "town list" anytime soon, but he's not a top target either.

You still like Cass as a better lynch choice?

[Citizen Karne]

In all that, Armlx still gives me the worst vibes.

I disagree completely, but I oft suspect armlx to be town, no matter the scenario.

I find Lowell suspect for declaring someone town, by bolding his name even. That doesn't seem a constructive thing to do, and it makes me a bit paranoid.

This seems like you are, shall I say, "planting a seed." What I mean is that you are posting this little piece of information without and FoS or a vote behind it, almost as if to sneak it in. It is almost like you want someone to look at this and use it to attack Lowell so that then you can hop on a wagon without really looking like you started anything. Well, before anyone does this, I want to point out that this point would be completely invalid except that I cannot say for sure that it does not make you paranoid. This, I suppose, may be true. I'm not sure why pointing out someone as town is something a mafioso might do, and I disagree that it isn't constructive. I know such play is usually frowned upon in games because it can direct a scum kill, but in large games such as this one I believe there is basically no major consequence. I dislike your use of "doesn't" and "constructive" in the same sentence here; he is basically providing analysis on a player. How is that ever not a constructive activity?

[Citizen Karne]

I quite dislike Skruffs vote on armlx. I know at whom I will look tomorrow.

[Citizen Karne]

I HAD INTERNET ISSUES. AS YOU CAN SEE FROM MY CAPITAL LETTERS I AMN QUITE DISPLEASED WITH COMCAST AT THE MOMENT.

I AM REREADING WHAT I HAVE MISSED.

[Citizen Karne]

AND BY 'AMN' I MEANT 'AM'.

[Citizen Karne]

HERE! Sorry for the lack of posting. Still catching up.

[Citizen Karne]

Also, I think Korts' self-hammer anger is a town-tell.

[Citizen Karne]

Life is a pain in the behind at the moment; I still like Netlava to be scum.

[Citizen Karne]

I think I could get on board a Raider lynch or a Cass lynch. They've all played fairly scummily in my book.

I would like to hear why:

@Cass: Blakadder is a better lynch than Netlava or Raider.
@Skruffs: armlx is a better lynch than Netlava, Cass, or Raider.
@Korts: Skruffs is a better lynch than Netlava, Cass, or Raider.

Also, does anyone else find it completely strange how the Netlava wagon has stalled? Something doesn't seem right to me about that situation.

[Citizen Karne]

Still waiting to hammer Netlava

[Citizen Karne]

BlakAdder, beware of drawing too much from the flavor.

Also, I was completely unaware Sineish was in this game. I shall reread his posts.

[Citizen Karne]

At this point, I support a StrangerCoug lynch.

[Citizen Karne]

I really don't think we need t hear from SC again. What else can he tell us? Really?

He's already claimed and unsuccessfully defended himself.

vote: StrangerCoug

[Citizen Karne]

Hmmm.

Rereading armlx.

[Citizen Karne]

Based on day one interactions with armlx, rereading EGL (replaced nhat). Think there might be some definite distancing there.

[Citizen Karne]

FoS: EGL

because armlx (scum) went after you hard then dropped it day one.

[Citizen Karne]

I'm here, sorry. Reading up. Thanksgiving is a hectic time for me.

[Citizen Karne]

Also, BM, I don't like LAL here. K7 does this town or scum. Not the time to realize a personal vendetta, methinks.

[Citizen Karne]

Also, BM, I don't like LAL here. K7 does this town or scum. Not the time to realize a personal vendetta, methinks.

It's hardly a personal vendetta. As town, K7 does try and participate. He generally just latches onto a target and lurks for the rest of the day. As scum, it seems he doesnt even bother doing that. I hate the concept of policy lynches, but in this case, i'd really hate to see somebody who isn't even playing end up winning as scum. Think of it as getting rid of deadweight, because if he is town, he isnt doing us much good, and we dont want him around at LyLo!

BM

The last game I was in with him, he did not try at all, and was town. We almost lynched him for the same reason. We can lynch him for information or just to get him out of hair, which I am fine with as long as we don't masquerade it with the appearance of some sort of meta to back up the lynch. K7 slacks off in all of his games, town or scum. He may do it more often as scum (I personally don't think so, but we'll go with that for now), but he still does it as town. I don't have a problem lynching him at this point, just a problem with lynching him under false pretenses. A good analogy for how I feel about this is the whole WMD thing the Americans went through with Iraq. Trying to masquerade just fucks us over in the long run, to be blunt about it.

And I meant Lynch All Lurkers, although LAL is also used to kill liars.

[Citizen Karne]

Caboose, if you find opportunism like that so scummy, I suggest your next vote be one for yourself, my friend.

FoS: Caboose

[Citizen Karne]

Caboose, if you find opportunism like that so scummy, I suggest your next vote be one for yourself, my friend. FoS: Caboose

So you don't think that my reason for voting K7 is legit? How so?

No, I do not. I feel it is weak and seems to be motivated solely by the fact that a bandwagon seems to have sprung up. The wagon is also fairly weak. If K7 is lynched and turns up town, you can defend yourself by saying you had a different reason for voting K7 than a majority of the others on the wagon, who are using a false meta to justify getting rid of a lurker. This can help to direct criticisms of the wagon away from you, who happened to have a reason but was wrong, and shift it to the others, who were just wrong and didn't have a solid reason. In the process, the fact that your "reason" is extremely weak and makes almost zero sense as a scumtell (he agreed with analysis of a scummy player by an experienced member of the game late in the wagon when there is very little to add to the argument that is original content).

If you are scum, I highly doubt you thought it out to this extent, as I agree it does seem rather impractical that someone would formulate to this degree about one vote in a game, but if you look at the basic principal here, it is that a player is being opportunistic, and the reasons that being that way is helpful to one's survival are both intrinsic and inferred knowledge, and that this is just a complete play-by-play, so to speak, of a person's rudimentary psychology as they make a common scum move.

Tl;dr: you set yourself up for a "I misinterpreted the facts while these guys used bad judgement; don't look at me, look at them," which I happen to find scummy.

[Citizen Karne]

FoS: Tom Mason

[Citizen Karne]

I believe springlullaby's claim.

Now can we pay attention to some of the people I'm FoSing at the moment? I think at the least there is one scum in the bunch.

[Citizen Karne]

I believe springlullaby's claim.

Now can we pay attention to some of the people I'm FoSing at the moment? I think at the least there is one scum in the bunch.

Anyone can "FOS" someone, but you have nothing to say when you do it. So, I am interested in hearing what makes you so certain "there is one scum in the bunch." The way you say it, you are just throwing wild accusations, hoping to play the odds and that one FOS might flip in your favor.

I just got back from my business trip and spent 8 hours in the airport (because JFK is a wonderful place to travel from). Cannot wait to see your fiction piece on this. Especially when your latest FOS (against myself) comes far after a conversation took place surrounding me before and you spoke not a word that I recall on the issue. What has changed?

I like to cast the hammer upon people. Therefore I rarely vote before the end of the day. My FoSes are carefully selected and chosen, as they are more important to me.

Now that you know that, does your opinion of my comment change?

[Citizen Karne]

I believe springlullaby's claim.

Now can we pay attention to some of the people I'm FoSing at the moment? I think at the least there is one scum in the bunch.

Anyone can "FOS" someone, but you have nothing to say when you do it. So, I am interested in hearing what makes you so certain "there is one scum in the bunch." The way you say it, you are just throwing wild accusations, hoping to play the odds and that one FOS might flip in your favor.

I just got back from my business trip and spent 8 hours in the airport (because JFK is a wonderful place to travel from). Cannot wait to see your fiction piece on this. Especially when your latest FOS (against myself) comes far after a conversation took place surrounding me before and you spoke not a word that I recall on the issue. What has changed?

I like to cast the hammer upon people. Therefore I rarely vote before the end of the day. My FoSes are carefully selected and chosen, as they are more important to me.

Now that you know that, does your opinion of my comment change?

So you are saying a FOS is more important to you than a vote? By that logic, you rather FOS someone you think is scummy... But vote for someone for the sake of dropping the hammer.

I find that rather scummy play.

I would simply love to see where I say FoS is more important than a vote.

[Citizen Karne]

I would not mind a Tom Mason wagon at all right now. I would simply love to see how he would respond to the pressure.

[Citizen Karne]

Congrats on the child, raider.

I feel we have nothing to lose by following BM's plan even with the weak doctor.

Also, to what extent should we direct the power roles tonight? Should we possibly take a guess at what other roles might be in the game and direct them also?

[Citizen Karne]

Sorry, scholastic interference. Rereading; however, you will probably have to wait for tomorrow for a post though.

[Citizen Karne]

It was in Tom's post. Go back to the previous page.

He pointed out Sineish was Porto and died from Dismemberments. He also noted the Portuguese Man O War fish which kills from poisoning (I googled it). Poisoning pretty much is Porto for sure now. Whether it is anything else in addition remains to be seen but yeah.

And good ol' BM has been arguing against it for quite a while...

I'm not quite sure what BM would gain from misleading the town with this information, however…

[Citizen Karne]

It was in Tom's post. Go back to the previous page.

He pointed out Sineish was Porto and died from Dismemberments. He also noted the Portuguese Man O War fish which kills from poisoning (I googled it). Poisoning pretty much is Porto for sure now. Whether it is anything else in addition remains to be seen but yeah.

And good ol' BM has been arguing against it for quite a while...

I'm not quite sure what BM would gain from misleading the town with this information, however…

If he's Porto or the Porto Poisoner, specifically. then there's a lot to gain. Watchers and trackers might think he's clear if they see him target someone one night and that person is alive after it and then not realize it was him when they drop dead the night AFTER he targeted them. He did try to use the "Skruffs is still alive so I must be clean," defense, which is what I'd expect from a poisoner.

Understood.

BM, can you please explain (although I'm sure you have already and I have just missed it) why, exactly, you will not claim your targets?

[Citizen Karne]

Goodness. tubby216 is buddying something fierce. I could see him and BM both being Portuguese mafia if one of them was.


Also, what

did

happen to that awfully good Tom Mason wagon? Would have

loved

to keep track of his reactions.

[Citizen Karne]

While I find BM's actions suspect, I feel that we have better places to lynch than a claimed power role. Also, BM, are you going to post your night choices now that the mod has gotten back to you?

[Citizen Karne]

Can we

please

just lynch Tom Mason? We can go after BM if Skruffs dies of poisoning tonight

or

save an innocent man's life if he lives. Why are we focusing on BM today when we can have so much more information tomorrow?

[Citizen Karne]

Can we

please

just lynch Tom Mason? We can go after BM if Skruffs dies of poisoning tonight

or

save an innocent man's life if he lives. Why are we focusing on BM today when we can have so much more information tomorrow?

So you're willing to let Skruffs die to see whether BM is innocent?

Well, yes, but that is irrelevant. What makes you think killing BM will stop his alleged target from dying?

[Citizen Karne]

Can we

please

just lynch Tom Mason? We can go after BM if Skruffs dies of poisoning tonight

or

save an innocent man's life if he lives. Why are we focusing on BM today when we can have so much more information tomorrow?

Why do you have such a hard-on for me?

You may want to rephrase this

Practically this whole day phase, you have pushed the idea of lynching me and barely made any attempt to give insight on anyone else or any other possibilities. The most you will say on anything else brought up in this phase is that you agree or disagree.

Obviously you have been reading only one or two words of my posts. Read them all and then tell me if you still believe this statement.

Trust me, it will be less interesting than your reaction when I flip as a worthless vanilla townie and you spent virtually all your time over the last month-plus trying to lynch me for no reason.

For me, claiming like this is a scumtell. A bit unwarranted, don't you think? Imagine if

real

pressure was put on Tom here. He'd crack like an egg. Also, if you haven't noticed, at least three other people agree with me, so I suggest you stop pretending this is some sort of one-man crusade against you. I'll give you some points - you haven't resorted to OMGUS yet. Congratulations on that, my friend.

[Citizen Karne]

@CK- are you kidding me? I've

been

the Tom Mason wagon. You're late to the party. Why is it you only want him dead after the wagon dies down?

Well when the wagon was in full force, I had nothing to complain about. Now that it has died down, I want it to start up again.

Also, the fact that BA's protection of Hascow did not go through has me worried. I don't think the mod would have poisoning by just a flavorful nightkill, although if the mod wasn't thinking…ugh I don't even want to bring that speculation.

I am not comfortable with lynching BM but I'll hammer if need be. I really believe lynching an uncc'd power role based almost entirely on speculation is not the wisest thing to do.

[Citizen Karne]

For me, claiming like this is a scumtell. A bit unwarranted, don't you think? Imagine if

real

pressure was put on Tom here. He'd crack like an egg.

Also, if you haven't noticed, at least three other people agree with me, so I suggest you stop pretending this is some sort of one-man crusade against you. I'll give you some points - you haven't resorted to OMGUS yet. Congratulations on that, my friend.

@ CK - Why the double standard applied to Tom Mason but not BM?

BM claimed a power role, so it isn't exactly the same situation.

[Citizen Karne]

I would highly suggest you use your vote more productively, springlullaby. Perhaps move it to Tom Mason?

[Citizen Karne]

Hmm...I swear I did a vote count yesterday.

Oh well. I'm very overloaded right now, so i'll get it in when I can.

May have been the server move.

[Citizen Karne]

I pledge to hammer whomever is put at L-1 and isn't an uncounterclaimed cop.

Ahem. I believe

I'm

the hammerer around here.

[Citizen Karne]

didnt get prodded but yea.. im here.

I honestly had completely forgotten you were in this game. You tend to have that effect on me.

It also seems Caboose is voting for you. What do you think about that?

Caboose: What about K7, other than the fact that he is lurking, makes you inclined to vote him?

[Citizen Karne]

I apologize for not posting; my house recently caught fire and I have been understandably busy.

[Citizen Karne]

Survivors should be lynched on sight, IMO, as there is no way to prove they are just survivors and their lynch in no way harms the town. Especially seeing as he's given us all the information he supposedly "has", I see no reason not to lynch him at this point. Roll out the votes so that I can hammer.

[Citizen Karne]

EGL, what did you claim again?

[Citizen Karne]

EGL, what did you claim again?

I didn't claim anything, because I didn't have to.

Then why were you a priority to be protected?

[Citizen Karne]

Lol, K7 is in this game?

I assume killa seven is in all of my games until proven otherwise.

[Citizen Karne]

Also I'd love to hammer tubby or Tom if I get the chance, especially seeing as I've been denied the opportunity to hammer so far in this game.

[Citizen Karne]

Also I'd love to hammer tubby or Tom if I get the chance, especially seeing as I've been denied the opportunity to hammer so far in this game.

I do recall you have very ample opportunity to hammer BM last day phase.

qft

I was not posting at the time I believe. I had time constraints due to drama at the end of the last day. Had I been here, trust me, I would've hammered.

[Citizen Karne]

I think one of two things happened with Caboose - he is the arsonist and missed his kill because he was not active, or he is telling the truth. I am more likely to believe the former. I still think tubby is a more pressing lynch, but upon further rumination I think Caboose's lynch would provide us with more information than Tom Mason's.

[Citizen Karne]

NK flavor meta still sucks.

This is very true.

[Citizen Karne]

I think we've said enough. tubby is the best play here.

vote: tubby

I suggest looking at Caboose in-depth tomorrow.

[Citizen Karne]

True. Anyone have anything left to say before the day ends?
I, for one, feel that if we have a vig or another pro-town poisoner, Caboose should definitely be their target tonight.

I disagree.

Also, what more is there to talk about that cannot be talked about tomorrow?

[Citizen Karne]

wouldn't it suck for ck if i was actually a vengeful swiss townie?

Rest assured, it would suck for more than just me.

[Citizen Karne]

I'll send skitzer a pm.

[Citizen Karne]

Skitzer has not responded to my pm nor has he posted on the site since February 5th. I'm going to give farside22 a heads-up.

[Citizen Karne]

vote: Caboose

The fact that I'm not waiting for the hammer is meaningful, folks.

[Citizen Karne]

I think it is obvious we should get Caboose today. Go ahead and claim your targets if you want, but my vote isn't likely to change.

[Citizen Karne]

I'll say more if I have to. I think we should lynch Caboose now and take a good look at Tom Mason tomorrow.

[Citizen Karne]

I'll say more if I have to. I think we should lynch Caboose now and take a good look at Tom Mason tomorrow.

I think people should have been taking a good look (hell, a look at all would have been nice) at Tom for a long time now, but if a Tom lynch isn't going to happen today I'm willing to go for a Caboose one instead. They're both pretty damn scummy.

:goodposting:

[Citizen Karne]

sorry wasnt paying attention to the thread, when did caboose fake claim?

Two days ago, I believe.

[Citizen Karne]

I don't know why people think I fakeclaimed.

Targets, please.

[Citizen Karne]

Target last night was BA.

I am not sated.

[Citizen Karne]

Cyberbob, we will deal with Tom Mason tomorrow. I have caught scum here and would like it if you would help lynch him.

Lowell, killa seven, just vote.

[Citizen Karne]

I hate waiting for hammers.

[Citizen Karne]

Two of the four of us are killers. Interesting.

[Citizen Karne]

That is very interesting.

[Citizen Karne]

Okay. killa seven and Lowell, you have the opportunity to make 1 kill from the remaining four. Both of you must send me the name, and it must be the same, otherwise the kill will not count.

I don't understand this plan at all. What is the point again?

You guys decide on someone to kill, then both send a PM to skitzer with the same player name to confirm. Then that person dies.

The point is to "justify" the fact that everyone seems to have been given roles where they are unkillable.

Yeah. Seeing as we know you guys are mafia now, we would just lynch you the next two days. However, you would get one more kill out of that. So skitzer is giving you that one kill.

[Citizen Karne]

Wow. I had this big case with my tracking claim all lined up…and the game ends.

Good job, town.