Large Normal 232—Sibyl's Elegy [GAME OVER]

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Dunnstral
Pls give me some kind of funny reaction. Otherwise i will never vote you again.

The expectation that I would have a funny reaction for this puts more pressure on me than the vote does

[Dunnstral]

One note about Marky Mark's Claim....

Four slots had not yet posted when this miller claim went down:

Andresvmb
Dunnstral
Anya
Rathe

If this were a "Mafia fakeclaiming miller" scenario, I am willing to bet that Marky Mark would have waited until the town in this list had posted to ensure there was not an ACTUAL miller claim, or Marky Marky is scum with exactly this list, which, uh... yeah probably not. In a mini normal or micro game, fake miller claims are less likely to be CC'd. But this is a 21 player normal. Lots of potential roles in the game that could sniff out fakery this early.

I'm good w/ Marky for now, even independently of townreading the content of his posts.

I agree

Also for those of you who are meta fancying, T3 has an extremely recently completed towngame: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=86184

Since I'm not meta fancying right now, do they look like town or scum in this game?

21 People is a lot that's about hmmm 6 scum right? I have about 4 scumreads my odds R good

5 scum.

5 - 1
9 - 2
13 - 3
17 - 4
21 - 5

I've noticed that people are notoriously bad at guesstimating the amount of scum once the game goes past a normal size. In the past I would have thought you were mafia faking not knowing how many scum there are, nowadays I think this tends to come from town

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Save The Deagons

He is worthy of this vote

[Dunnstral]

9 players is 2
13 players is 3
16 players is 4
21 players is 5


At least assuming singleball mafia team, no SK, and traditional scum distribution. Could be higher or lower depending on PR allocation.

this feels more like a 7 or 8 wolves game honestly

everyone in my neighbourhood is being wolfy too

Is this a real claim?

[Dunnstral]

"low content" isn't a good scumread this early in the game

[Dunnstral]

It it normal for doublevoters to claim so early?

Not a real claim either, they messed up their formatting

[Dunnstral]

Vasex, why do you think Kitty is scum?

[Dunnstral]

I do think Save The Dragons is playing scummy and deserves scrutiny

[Dunnstral]

scrutinize me cap'n

You've somehow managed to avoid talking about anything important, except arguably you jumping onto Vasex

Your posts read as filler and being on the edge of the game

[Dunnstral]

You should check your null reads.

[Dunnstral]

Or at least don't say I haven't done anything, I guess

[Dunnstral]

Also can you explain your lean scum tier?

[Dunnstral]

"low content" isn't a good scumread this early in the game

scrutinize me cap'n

You've somehow managed to avoid talking about anything important, except arguably you jumping onto Vasex

Your posts read as filler and being on the edge of the game

also when i did post content he ignored it. he's not interested in reading my slot. he just wants to push me for some reason...

You are talking about 424?

That's 1 post and it comes right after you get called out for having no content, it looks like you're trying to fill the gap

[Dunnstral]

Dunn vs STD giving me tvt vibes.

Based on what?

I wouldn't say this atm

[Dunnstral]

we need to push people harder with 8 votes, 9 votes, 10 votes...
kitty is a good candidate for that
the others also good, but you people are not enough flexible to try everybody with such shock voting therapia

i also bothered with complete silence of many players (though there are enough important events to react on), i have feeling that it sometimes happens when mafia is afraid to do anything that can ruin fragile good situation for them (for example, if both Etine and Kitty are townies), but i also know that during the weekend it is possible only zero activity from many of players, so i dont take it seriously

By the way:

Kitty is a fine vote, we shouldn't be voting for Etine post-claim imo

[Dunnstral]

"low content" isn't a good scumread this early in the game

scrutinize me cap'n

You've somehow managed to avoid talking about anything important, except arguably you jumping onto Vasex

Your posts read as filler and being on the edge of the game

also when i did post content he ignored it. he's not interested in reading my slot. he just wants to push me for some reason...

Yeah, looking through their ISO I can get behind this. Fair bit of mech talk and only a moderate amount of scrutiny/analysis. No follow-up or reflection on the question they asked in 429 either, although it is the weekend so they may just have not been on.

I didn't feel a response was necessary

The reflection is not something that I shared with the whole thread

[Dunnstral]

That's 1 post and it comes right after you get called out for having no content, it looks like you're trying to fill the gap

do you really think i've only provided 1 post of content?

if i were town in your eyes, what should i have done instead? or was there nothing i could have done hmm

You'd be more engaged with the thread imo instead of hardcore sidelining

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: KittyTacky

[Dunnstral]

Kitty is a fine vote, we shouldn't be voting for Etine post-claim imo

y do u think kitty is mafia

They look like mafia, and they seemed like a better vote than the alternative (cabd) at the time.

I was a Town 1-Shot Cop. Crumbed it here:

I am an 1-Shot Cop. Crumbed it here:

Cabd's posts are weird. Almost like active lurking. We should investigate.

VOTE: Cabd

I would check Cabd if he was not limmed today. Now that goes down the drain.

I believe it is mechanically correct to at least postpone the elimination for one day, even if we don't really believe kitty.

It's best to eliminate someone who is neutra in regards to kitty (so they can be scum whether kitty is town or scum)

UNVOTE: Kitty

Enchan. Literally. Scumslipped. With. Kitty.

I don't agree

[Dunnstral]

The argument shouldn't be whether kitty is scum or not

It should be about why we can't elim them tomorrow instead of today

[Dunnstral]

ugh you know what
vote kitty
if kitty isn't scum vote me tomorrow i'm just a 1 shot bulletproof and after everyone RANDOLY scumreading it's not like mafia will ever try to kill me

traitor claim?

How so?

[Dunnstral]

Agree That Enchant/Kitty appear scum/scum. I'm struggling to wrap my mind around a townie who wants to trick people into quickhammering before the claim but doesn't stick with that goal after the claim. I have mixed thoughts on the claim itself though.

Spoiler: these two posts are the worst of the bunch

OMG I HAVE A CAKE NEXT TO MY NAME

WORSHIP ME

by unvoting kitty and going after the real scum here, Cabd

Did you miss the part when Enchant scumslipped?

I don't want how to tell you.

But it was trick, so i could hammer him. Now it's not like i want too though.

Nice hammer, you killed your cop. Vig on Vasex.

Scumreading Samantha and Anya more now for similar reasons. In particular I don't see 704 as at all a scummy post. They've each had quite static and unexpansive reads for the amount they've posted, though this applies moreso to sam. ie 976 "Kitty's reaction bad" and "No scumslip", neither of these are even plausibly gonna change anyone else's opinions, and there's nothing for either Kitty or T3 to argue with.


I'm townreading kerset now, the fake hammer test (845 and 846) is something that comes from town. Specifically because of how straightforward and not overdone it was.

VOTE: samantha97

NDmath feels very stiff this game and I don't really agree with some of the things he says

So, scumlean

[Dunnstral]

Why did T3 role claim though?

[Dunnstral]

and that's enough to make you almost want to vote somebody you *checks notes* really WANT to vote, HARD?

interesting...

scummy

[Dunnstral]

Minimal analysis/scrutiny this game outside of their push on STD, a slot that I'm townreading. Decent amount of lurking and mechtalk and the #8 slot vote on kitty without much in the way of context or follow-up.

Unfortunately (?) that's not really a reason to scumread me

[Dunnstral]

Correction - Dunn was #6 slot on Kitty wagon. Clearly, I can't count. The general logic still stands, although this does downgrade that element of their scumminess to an extent.

I was told to move my vote off of save the dragons.

[Dunnstral]

Guys, imagine he is not a cop and just a scum.
Tomorrow after some townies deaths, he will tell us the result of check of someone.
Maybe it is townie or a scum. Or maybe we'll have miller's problem,nobody knows for sure.
Then what?

Then we kill him and see if he's a real cop with a real result, or scum
Why can we not just wait 1 night?

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: T3

So is there a TL;DR of claims so far? I'm never going to remember all of them.

Marky Mark Miller.
T3 Bulletproof
Etine lazy babysitter
Kitty 1-shot Cop

Sita meta needs to change

[Dunnstral]

Correction - Dunn was #6 slot on Kitty wagon. Clearly, I can't count. The general logic still stands, although this does downgrade that element of their scumminess to an extent.

I was told to move my vote off of save the dragons.

I feel like town here argues why their vote was a good vote, rather than sloping the accountability with "I was told to move my vote", which says nothing about why they moved it

OK.

I was the only person voting Save The Dragons, Kitty was at 5 votes, Cabd was at 6 votes. I preferred Kitty over Cabd, and my vote wasn't doing anything.

[Dunnstral]

Then we kill him and see if he's a real cop with a real result, or scum

Well ok, we lose not much, if kitty a real cop and we hang him tomorrow. Knowing his check elimation of him is like killing a simple townie. If he is real one-shot cop.
But will we hang him tomorrow if he is alive?
There will be less people to hang him...
There can be scum check of smb else...
Well, if kitty is real mafia, we chose a very difficult way

If they claim a guilty check it's probably best to eliminate them first still, yes

[Dunnstral]

And why do we think there is a traitor?

[Dunnstral]

How is 1-shot cop and night 1/2 cop not directly counter claiming each other?

[Dunnstral]

i wanna know what others think about it

I'm fine with letting both live for one night and then killing tomorrow. I believe there is for sure scum between the two of them (maybe both?)

If you mean which is more likely to be town, I'm leaning towards t3 right now just because I did feel that kitty's claim came from a place where they'd be eliminated otherwise, wheras t3's claim was kind of derpy and came from his initial claim being picked apart (which was also for no reason?)

[Dunnstral]

NVM, T3's recent posts seem kinda legit.

VOTE: Cabd

pls explain why you aren't voting for confirmed (from your pov) mafia, and instead think his posts are "legit"

This is a good question

[Dunnstral]

but Cabd is worse IMO.

What has Cabd done...?

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Andresvmb

I get that you're sick but this seems night and day from brutality

[Dunnstral]

Dunnstral - Dunn is on this list for similar, but not exactly, the reasons as the above. The last time Dunn and I met in a game, I used town-him as a pivotal part of my strategy for my scum team's perfect win in Tenet. Via a neighborhood where I posted something close to 8 pages of ISO... myself. I would fully expect and actually fully understand Town-Dunn seeing my reach out and being weary of it. Vocally so! I could also see town-dunn shouting from the rooftops "This is how scumcabd gets you OMG!" But instead, we get nothing. To make the ffery sitting over my shoulder watching this thread smile, I'm going to steal her turn of phrase and note that both Dunn and Mara are not fitting their Town Models.[/area][/color]

We played in another game in between where I was town and I wasn't shouting at you.

[Dunnstral]

That is some really bad meta

[Dunnstral]

Cabd attacks people, which he knows very well. Arte and Dunn.
The only question is it because he really sure he found scums, or just worried about that they can easily find him knowing him too...?
Buuuut... talking about the second option. Neither Artemiana(and Anastasia), nor Dunn were suspecting Cabd... Artestasia's scumreads: mark,vasex,etine,ndmath,samantha. Dunn scumread mostly only STD.... This is std scumreads cabd, but dunn scumreads std, not cabd... "what has cabd done?", "exactly"
Well , this is a quite strange tactic for cabd-scum to attack Artestasia and Dunn, who are not dangerous for him at all.
Maybe only one exception: if they are dangerous for his partners. But their voices are not too loud and they cannot create a wagon to ndmath or std ... so... it seems cabd is town really. Or just sick/crazy, like fond of fonding difficulties for himself, attacking his allies.
Though Dunn has voted Andre, then Kityy voted Andre, but still cabd was waiting rather long with no real danger for Andre...

I think cabd is town

I want cabd's take too

The game was abandoned but a large part of day 1 still happened

[Dunnstral]

Dcl is a blocker

someone who can block smb's ability or shot

And you know this how?

[Dunnstral]

Driving home probably for the best that the thread got locked and I walked away because I was about to say some very spite.

But apparently we're so incompetent we can't even kill me correctly which is a hoot. I'm sure there's tons of reactions to me rage quitting and they may or may not end up with me dying for real today but whatever the case may be I will read that stuff when I get home I'm still alive by then have a good weekend everyone safe travels

[Dunnstral]

Dcl is a blocker

someone who can block smb's ability or shot

And you know this how?

Pro reading

I don't see anything that can be taken as a claim in their iso?

[Dunnstral]

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=86228&start=650
Cabd's most recent scumgame btw

I was gonna bring that up with dunn but I posted like twice total. It was all Ffery.

Would cite tenet as a game where I most recently actually played as scum. But you're welcome to compare contrast to this one and the abandoned one too sure.

Do you not think that negates the meta point you brought up, though?

[Dunnstral]

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=86228&start=650
Cabd's most recent scumgame btw

I was gonna bring that up with dunn but I posted like twice total. It was all Ffery.

Would cite tenet as a game where I most recently actually played as scum. But you're welcome to compare contrast to this one and the abandoned one too sure.

Do you not think that negates the meta point you brought up, though?

[Dunnstral]

I didn't put our distress signals in that game to you, did I?

What distress signals have you sent to me in this game?

I missed them if you did

[Dunnstral]

Can somebody find me 1 Setup that’s been played on this forum with two distinct Cops amongst the Town?

I don't think both of the cops are real.

The argument is that we eliminate one of them tomorrow instead of today. Why do we have to eliminate them today and risk not getting a check off?

We're still going to get them. They're not going anywhere.

[Dunnstral]

Why would mafia have a cop?

[Dunnstral]

I have a problem with kerset in that they assume that a traitor is in the game because T3 claimed bulletproof initially, and they also think a mafia cop is possible because there's a traitor.

But which one is it? T3 can't be both a traitor and a mafia cop. There's a lack of critical thinking here and it's concerning.

Andres play in this game still feels different from what I've seen town him do, even though they've jumped into the game

[Dunnstral]

If I flip town should you die next?

Did you really say "if" instead of "when?" :lol:

If she flips

[Dunnstral]

I have a problem with kerset in that they assume that a traitor is in the game because T3 claimed bulletproof initially,

and they also think a mafia cop is possible because there's a traitor.

But which one is it? T3 can't be both a traitor and a mafia cop. There's a lack of critical thinking here and it's concerning.

Andres play in this game still feels different from what I've seen town him do, even though they've jumped into the game

Bolded one isn't really true, someone asked why would mafia get a cop, so i answered based on theory. I see no reason to think that mafia got a cop at all, its not like D1 rolecop checked them.

OK, so. I thought you were saying you thought that based on the way the coversation was going.

I think it's much mor elikely for mafia to simply be lying about being a cop, than to speculate that they're actually a mafia cop

[Dunnstral]

"quickhammering cabd"

Okk, i stopping care what happens next, because you don't even read what i write, so there's no point to talk altogether. You know what to do next.

See ya.

VOTE: Enchant

Ye i know, i got annoyed by this game.

If i need explain same thing over 9000 times, i find more important business to do, if you lynch me, you get info, it's not like i am useful town in closed setup anyway, so go ahead vote me finally.

I am VT.

I thought your night 3-4 thing was interesting

[Dunnstral]

Cabd's wagon still looks like townies to me.

You're only voting because you think they're town and not because you suspect cabd?

[Dunnstral]

Spent over a half hour catching up. Also some time looking at the n1-n2 cop thing.

is reading this thread part of your mafia penitence

I have skipped at least 30 pages by now lol

also enchant? said that t3 played a game with a n3/n4 role before this

I've also skipped some pages.

[Dunnstral]

Is cabd really allowed to declare v/la for a month and walk away from the game? Shouldn't that warrant a replacement or something?

[Dunnstral]

if I remember right I think I read that there is a cap or something

maybe that wasn't a site rule and instead a game rule though

You're thinking of something else, this game is capless

[Dunnstral]

I still don't think his reaction was legit just because he's someone who tryhards to the point of creating irl meta encyclopedias or something

that doesn't mean he's mafia 100% but I don't think he was honest either way

I think I mentioned it already but he said something to me about my reaction to his distress signal to me being weird but I never saw anything like a distress signal from him to me in this game

[Dunnstral]

Cool, I was VT, washing my hands of the game.

Good luck to those who give a shit.

P-edit, you can't unvote after hammer lol.

Off to go back to coding then.

Washing my hands of the game...
Is it ok to say after you kinda sure that you was really really hammered?
Maybe i translate it wrong? But this phrase is probably used when u can be sure that this is not the end?
Am i right?
Why did he say that he is washing hands of the game (=wont play it anymore?)?

Oxford dictionary

wash your hands of sth

If you wash your hands of something that you were previously responsible for, you intentionally stop being involved in it or connected with it in any way:

She couldn't wait to wash her hands of the whole project.

Collins dictionary:

PHRASE

If you wash your hands of someone or something, you refuse to be involved with them any more or to take responsibility for them.

He seems to have washed his hands of the job.

stop being involved, stop being responsable, stop doing this job

This is quite strange kind of phrase, when you wasnt so much involved and you are sure that this is the end for you, because you was hammered

If im wrong in understanding of that, please help. Maybe there is nothing strange in this phrase and it is much more universal and common for you, than i think

With context he is saying he is not taking responsibility for what happens this game, implied to be town not doing well

[Dunnstral]

T3, are you specifically a N1/N2 cop or does your role PM state that you are a 2 shot cop?

@T3

Respond to this please

[Dunnstral]

So kerset going on about mafia cop was tmi, right?

[Dunnstral]

iso skimmed people over the night


i think t3 spewed vasex, etine, kittytacky and enchant as town

i also think andres, marky, and kerset look very good as they were pushing T3 hard.

nero cain was chainsaw defending T3 with his attack on andres, looks horrible

strong town: vasex, andres, marky mark, kittytacky, kerset, etine, enchant
weak town: cabd, rathe
null: dunnstral, NDMath, samantha97
weak scum: windowsxp, anastasia, drippinggoofball
scum: nero cain, save the dragons

VOTE: Nero Cain

From where I'm standing... I know my own alignment, the 2nd and 3rd wagons weren't voting t3, and there were legitimate reasons to leave t3 for another day, but a scum elim still got rammed through.

There was bussing for sure IMO, it's easy to ignore the 'correct argument' if you know you're right and can look good

[Dunnstral]

Already told the mod about the slip up but public transparency FYI:

My V/LA was entered incorrectly, it ended on Tuesday. Not next month.

Hey now that you're here. I don't think you ever sent me a distress signal this game. Can we at least agree that when you said that it was a mistake, and so your resulting read was a mistake?

[Dunnstral]

My argument is that logic was ignored in order to push t3, and a lot of correct but awkward conclusions appeared from nowhere:

-Mafia having a cop
-Traitor in the game (which is implied with a mafia cop)

And neither of these things are natural to think about. Thinking that mafia have a cop is not a natural conclusion at all. And kerset walked it back but I don't fully buy that

[Dunnstral]

Mafia cop also implies Traitor;

How so?

Because what else would a mafia cop be used for? Aside from multiball, but this is a normal game.

[Dunnstral]

I actually thought that was addressed to me, but I said pretty much the same thing anyway

[Dunnstral]

Opposite opinion of Dunn, I think we should be elim'ing off of yesterday's wagon.

I was thinking that too tbh, but I wanted to wait to see what my main suspects would say.

Can you remind me of who that is

[Dunnstral]

Opposite opinion of Dunn, I think we should be elim'ing off of yesterday's wagon.


Willing to full clear Mark off the mafia cop. Also agree with bloodhail's spews.

Mafia cop also implies Traitor;
Deathnote (now A50) reads as the traitor to me.

Spoiler: referring to these posts

11 votes is a lot of votes.

I should help. Idle votes are the mafia's handiwork right?

VOTE: Vote: T3

I.. didn't ask why. I responded to something another player said with a valid reason.

No one is going to tell you how to be town except for maybe your scum team in a private thread. Is your response just going to be "but give me reasons?"

Because lot of players to get through........

Cool cool. I'm the other miller too so that should help us solidify this block

I like this. Specifically, posts 106 and 174 look like traitor softs to me.

[Dunnstral]

So kerset going on about mafia cop was tmi, right?

Actually, you are the one who mentioned it first.

No I'm not.

The first mention of mafia cop in my iso is this:

I have a problem with

kerset

in that they assume that a traitor is in the game because T3 claimed bulletproof initially, and they also think a

mafia cop

is possible because there's a traitor.

But which one is it? T3 can't be both a traitor and a mafia cop. There's a lack of critical thinking here and it's concerning.

Andres play in this game still feels different from what I've seen town him do, even though they've jumped into the game

[Dunnstral]

well, it was, though in 2014, but it is possible
scum 2-shot cop is more possible though

Why would mafia have a cop?

Why would mafia have a cop?

to find traitor

Actually, this interaction came first.

OK, so it was actually Vasex who said that.

[Dunnstral]

I like this. Specifically, posts 106 and 174 look like traitor softs to me.

I can -maybe- see how 174 could be taken that way, but I fail to see how 106 is. And why would he vote his scum buddy that early??

But, you know what? I am not about to derail your line of thought here. Just remember that -IF I am a Traitor- you don't actually need to eliminate me to win in a Normal.. (I think)

Idle votes are the mafia's handiwork right?
*places an idle vote*

[Dunnstral]

But, you know what? I am not about to derail your line of thought here. Just remember that -IF I am a Traitor- you don't actually need to eliminate me to win in a Normal.. (I think)

While correct, this does not mean it's a good idea to not go for the traitor if you suspect one.

They're still a mafia-aligned player with a vote and a voice

[Dunnstral]

I may not have explicitly sent one addressed to only you, but I certainly felt like I was putting them out writ large.

Doesn't matter though, we have data I can dig into instead. I'm pretty much resetting myself with the exception of the mara read~ You're welcome to cross-temporal neighborize me though, if you'd like.

I don't have the choice in this game

[Dunnstral]

I feel immense pain about that death.. I was gonna babysit her and then chose not to because I didn't want both of us to die!

So who did you target?

Bas question (regardless of your alignment). A Babysitter should not be telling in this case (where they already hinted they were using it as a protective rather than a Vig). Just my 2 cents based on having been a Babysitter recently

Better say it now then take to grave.

Why?

[Dunnstral]

But, you know what? I am not about to derail your line of thought here. Just remember that -IF I am a Traitor- you don't actually need to eliminate me to win in a Normal.. (I think)

While correct, this does not mean it's a good idea to not go for the traitor if you suspect one.

They're still a mafia-aligned player with a vote and a voice

Based on TODAY'S POSTS ALONE, I'd be willing to bet a small amount on it being NDMath himself. (The one who made a case of my slot being the Traitor)

Why does that make them a traitor vs being normal faction scum

[Dunnstral]

Why does that make them a traitor vs being normal faction scum

Because the case itself could be taken as a crumb for being said Traitor. Why would anyone make a case on a Traitor at the start of the day rather than look for associative tells between flipped Scum and other living players?

I disagree that the case can be taken as a traitor crumb - I don't think it can. And looking for traitor seems obvious after the mafia cop flip.

[Dunnstral]

I think the answer to the game is within pages 107->116

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=86404&start=2650

I suggest everyone reread just that time period

What does:

if t3 really is so towny, we should think about this guys, who are so sure he is a scum

Andresvmb [3] - Dunnstral, NDMath, T3
bloodhail [2] - DrippingGoofball, Anya

And we also have Enchant !!!!!

mean?

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Nero

don't steal everyone's gold looks like a bandit push to me

i don't feel that same charcoal bluntless from her compared to another game so sure VOTE: samantha

VOTE: bloodhail

what about this storm hail is evil and blood is even worse it'd stain our clothes

they came in with some hail but it's been calm since then

i'd vote for enchant over t4 cabd vasex andres so there that

bloodhail though wants to guide by reading nothing and just trying to appear towny by picking boxing matches

VOTE: bloodhail

VOTE: Andres

i've never seen someone make a tommorow night promise and then keep it so here's a vote in advance for breaking it

[Dunnstral]

I think the answer to the game is within pages 107->116

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=86404&start=2650

I suggest everyone reread just that time period

viewtopic.php?p=12737264#p12737264

Read from here to the end of the page

[Dunnstral]

I don’t know why we need to overthink this. Nero Cain is Scum. Now, we can wait for the result of the 1-Shot Cop. But we definitely need to execute there.

Can you explain?

[Dunnstral]

I will admit I do find it kind of odd that the Scum didn’t shoot at the 1-Shot Cop. I think I would have strongly considered that. I don’t even think Anya was obvious Town at all.

Etine claimed lazy babysitter, maybe they didn't want to gamble. But then it makes you think about why Etine wasn't shot.

[Dunnstral]

I will admit I do find it kind of odd that the Scum didn’t shoot at the 1-Shot Cop. I think I would have strongly considered that. I don’t even think Anya was obvious Town at all.

probably because a 1 shot cop isn't that likely to hit mafia

Not a good argument, because clearing town is also something that scum wants to avoid

[Dunnstral]

I think the real answer is that kitty is still elimmable

[Dunnstral]

Do we think miller would exist with only a mafia cop in the game?

[Dunnstral]

Willing to full clear Mark off the mafia cop.

...but mafia knew they had a cop

So saying a miller claim is clear because of what a mafia member flipped is using bad reasoning

[Dunnstral]

Do we think miller would exist with only a mafia cop in the game?

possibly a traitor red herring for the mafia cop (and the 1-shot still exists)

marky mark was the pivot vote onto T3 and was scumreading him all day, i dont think hes traitor

if he is then scum probably nightkill him anyway lmfao

I do like the idea of traitor red herring, though

[Dunnstral]

when I saw mafia cop I thought that confirmed a serial killer

I didn't think that cops got a guilty on serial killers.

I checked the wiki and you're right: in normal games cops receive "Town" and "Not Town" results, and would get "Not Town" on a serial killer in normal games

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: T3

This is where I think we need to go now. I'd prefer Vasex or NDMath as the consequences are less bad if I'm wrong in terms of losing a PR, but I still think we have a good chance of hitting scum here and we have the votes to make it work.

T3 [6] - Rathe, KittyTacky, Etine, samantha97, DrippingGoofball, Marky Mark
Cabd [5] - Nero Cain, Save The Dragons, WindowsXP, Vasex, NDMath
Andresvmb [3] - Dunnstral, T3, Anya
Enchant [3] - Enchant, bloodhail, Kerset
Vasex [1] - Anastasia
Nero Cain [1] - Andresvmb
Anastasia [1] - Cabd

Not voting - Almost50

if marky mark were traitor this vote would be a hardcore throw

This makes the assumption that Cabd is town, but sure

[Dunnstral]

when I saw mafia cop I thought that confirmed a serial killer

I didn't think that cops got a guilty on serial killers.

I checked the wiki and you're right: in normal games cops receive "Town" and "Not Town" results, and would get "Not Town" on a serial killer in normal games

Balance wise, I'm not sure why mafia would have the biggest tool to catch the serial killer, though

[Dunnstral]

Dunn vs STD giving me tvt vibes.

[Dunnstral]

Why are people voting for me?

[Dunnstral]

all the quiet ones from day 1 r rly chatty today

lost a partner n now have to make sure u control the conversation

If this is directed at me:

This is pretty much how I operate. I don't have much to say on day 1, when something happens I jump in and have a lot to say. In this case, a mafia cop flipped and there is a lot of information to work with, so I have a lot to say.

[Dunnstral]

Dunnstral, what are your thoughts on WindowsXP and Kerset as possibly signalling to a traitor?

I just saw this

I think kerset is more likely to be main faction scum than traitor (if they're scum at all) based on the mafia cop stuff, traitor doesn't know their own teams roles
You'll need to explain the WindowsXP stuff again, or h ow that makes them traitor signalling

[Dunnstral]

ok to make thsi clear,

T3 check DGB
Kitty check NDMath

these are 2 players who dont get nightkilled unless they are confirmed PR.
these are the 2 best checks to leash.

change this to T3 -> Etine, Kitty->DGB

i want scum to nightkill Etine if they are town<3

[Dunnstral]

Could u explain why did u choose this target? Btw i would check hum too

I was leashed. I would check Etine if I wasn't.

Even if mafia leasher I'd definitely be pushed hard and probably limmed if I went against it. I didn't want to score the mafia another kill.

I feel immense pain about that death.. I was gonna babysit her and then chose not to because I didn't want both of us to die!

So who did you target?

Bas question (regardless of your alignment). A Babysitter should not be telling in this case (where they already hinted they were using it as a protective rather than a Vig). Just my 2 cents based on having been a Babysitter recently

Better say it now then take to grave.

Why?

Because single kill in large game is unexpected. No SK, no vig?

Yeah I'd expect vig to shoot Cabd/Enchant (or another scummy) if there was one.

Even if mafia leasher I'd definitely be pushed hard and probably limmed if I went against it. I didn't want to score the mafia another kill.

I dont understand, explain it more

Leasher could be mafia but we don't know that and DGB isn't that bad of a target anyways.

I didn't want to risk dying because I am confirmed town to myself.

Kitty, do you trust windows?

I trust them but not that much. Actually a mild TR, let me be honest. The defense was too blatant to come from scum.

Kitty is not just a 1-shot cop. She is also a person openly attacked by T3, keep in mind why did T3 claim in the first place.

Why would u pushed hard? Do you mean today? There were two cops, one is dead mafia now, so the other one is probably real cop, why should u be elimed today?

I was fearing mafia would leverage me going against the leash to mis-push me.

[Dunnstral]

I wanted him to answer, ugh.
And it is still strange.
And i told to a possible cop two things even in that time of elimination of cabd:
1. Be unpredictable
2. Dont listen to windows hp.
And then i asked kitty at least to think about his move at night, and he promised to do it.
I dont see any thought process.
And he just easy listened to windows.
Windows should among susps for kitty after t3 appears to be mafia cop.
But no, kitty play like robot or smth. If he is true at all.
W.t.f.

He did answer, I quoted his posts

[Dunnstral]

I think I'd like to vote out one of andres, a50, save the dragons today

My thoughts on each:

I can't shake the feeling that the play I am seeing from andres in this game is different from what I've seen of him in another game, he felt more commanding and in control there. His play here has felt toned down in comparison. I may have said this before or I only thought it.

A50 is primarily due to thinking that what NDMath pointed out in regards to traitor crumbs seemed very plausible to me. I'm surprised more people didn't comment on this and it's seemed to fade into the background instead.

Save the dragons has felt like they've been playing on the outskirts of the game the whole game, and it's not due to the pace of the game but rather what they choose to comment on and what they choose to ignore. It feels tactical for sure in what they choose to ignore, and the tone has been bad here. I have a good gut feeling here.

Those aren't the extent of my reads, but it's what I feel best about voting today

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Dunstral

The case against me is solely that we're both scum together, by the way, so this is an ultra slimy vote

VOTE: Save The Dragons

By the way... assuming I'm scum because I'm pushing probable scum is dumb, pointing to that micro is also dumb and narrow-minded

[Dunnstral]

Look I’m in 5 games at the same time, all due to bad timing, 3 on this forum, and I just fucking haven’t read all 3,000 posts since this game started after the two others I’m playing here. Like enough already. Look at my history - I dig deep and play 1 game at a time because I like to think deeply about games not play so many at the same time.

ok

[Dunnstral]

Alright, I checked DGB. Innocent. Godfather isn't normal right? So DGB is clear.

You

really

needed to check DGB of all players to know this?? (I guess .. maybe. DGB is indeed hard to read to many, but I recognized her as Town easily both here and in the most previous game

Team Mafia 2021 Large Normal Part 2

)

Why weren't you saying this when people were telling the cops to check DGB

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Dunstral

The case against me is solely that we're both scum together, by the way, so this is an ultra slimy vote

VOTE: Save The Dragons

By the way... assuming I'm scum because I'm pushing probable scum is dumb, pointing to that micro is also dumb and narrow-minded

That's not the reason i'm voting for you obviously

OK. Why are you voting me?

[Dunnstral]

What was wrong with deathnote?

Apparently you were our Traitor but we didn't get it right. :P

A50 needs to die too

[Dunnstral]

What was wrong with deathnote?

Apparently you were our Traitor but we didn't get it right. :P

A50 needs to die too

VOTE: Dunn

Changed my mind. Dunn in particular can't possibly SR me here. He knows much much much better.

Explain how I know better

[Dunnstral]

Putting a miller in to mess with mafia cop is the most setup-designer thing ever.
And "I'll claim miller so I get townread if my cop partner dies before me" isn't really something scum would think of?

I'm saying that mafia knew that there was a cop because they had it, so the miller claim itself is less clear because mafia could have done something like that

[Dunnstral]

Because yesterday I was the only player you attacked for the reasons you did, but there were others with low content in the beginning.

I wasn't attacking you for your post count.

This is untrue anyway, I believe I made points against both Andres and ndmath

[Dunnstral]

ecause you've changed the way you're playing since T3 died and it doesn't seem like it's just from having more information

Why doesn't it seem like that?

As I explained, it's very much par for the course for me to have more to say after an information drop and on day 2

[Dunnstral]

Golly gee you guys post and post and post!

I'm basically exercising my right to not read anything but I'm getting lots of pings in certain areas. The last time I visited this post junction I was thinking about Cabd's wagon. Seems nobody wanted to talk about it so I'll do it anyways!

So here's the end wagon on T3:

T3 [11] - Rathe,

KittyTacky

,

Etine

,

samantha97

, DrippingGoofball, Marky Mark, Kerset,

Anya

, Vasex,

bloodhail

,

Enchant

[ELIMINATION]

Now here's the Cabd wagon when at it's peak:

Cabd [9] -

deep-city-lights (bloodhail)

, Nero Cain, Rathe,

samantha97

, Anastasia, NDMath,

Etine

,

KittyTacky

,

Enchant

The colors are to only show who was on both wagons! Underlined is the dead townie. I have no doubt in my mind that there's bussers in the repeating voters. Players who didn't wanna get looking dumb or non-committal. Are people townreading Cabd by the way? I actually think the fact this wagon happened and where the repeating votes are makes me think that's a bad idea! Did scum just happen to get put into a bad spot twice? I think so. That's why the day was never ending!

If Cabd is mafia wouldn't it make more sense that other mafia would only be on one of the wagons at most, rather than both?

[Dunnstral]

Because yesterday I was the only player you attacked for the reasons you did, but there were others with low content in the beginning.

I wasn't attacking you for your post count.

This is untrue anyway, I believe I made points against both Andres and ndmath

Didnt say anything about post count. Where did you attack other people for the same reasons you attacked me

Why do I need to have done that?

You are the one sidelining

[Dunnstral]

Alright, I checked DGB. Innocent. Godfather isn't normal right? So DGB is clear.

You

really

needed to check DGB of all players to know this?? (I guess .. maybe. DGB is indeed hard to read to many, but I recognized her as Town easily both here and in the most previous game

Team Mafia 2021 Large Normal Part 2

)

Why weren't you saying this when people were telling the cops to check DGB

It was literally the first read I provided after replacing in:

VOTE: deep-city-lights
VOTE: A50
VOTE: deep-city-lights
VOTE: A50
VOTE: deep-city-lights
VOTE: A50
VOTE: deep-city-lights
VOTE: A50
VOTE: deep-city-lights
VOTE: A50

NICE. Now I know DGB is Town. :lol:

Not the same as arguing against the cop check

[Dunnstral]

I would be fine voting cabd purely for the extremely high chance of him faking the hammer reaction, if rathe wants to

Why are you tying your vote to Rathe?

[Dunnstral]

Explain how I know better

You know me well enough and have played me most recently (from newer to older: Open 807, TM2021 Large Normal, Tenet, Open 792, Open 789, Mini 2087)

ALL OF WHICH IN THE LAST 12 MONTHS

OK... and what is your point? I still think your predecessor softed traitor

[Dunnstral]

Explain how I know better

You know me well enough and have played me most recently (from newer to older: Open 807, TM2021 Large Normal, Tenet, Open 792, Open 789, Mini 2087)

ALL OF WHICH IN THE LAST 12 MONTHS

OK... and what is your point? I still think your predecessor softed traitor

This post ALONE is a Scum claim to me. You said >I< (A50) needed to go, commenting on a post I was directing at Nero. I explained you have enough

recent

experience with me, and you brush that off and revert to a read on my predecessor. You KNOW this is my TOWN play, and you can't argue against that, so you are finding a way to keep me in the lim PoE because you really need some mis-yeets to try and win here.

I'm "Dunn" talking to you. My vote is locked.

The post I quoted has you capitalizing Traitor and talking to nero

It looks like you're doing something weird like trying to set them up after your death

[Dunnstral]

You KNOW this is my TOWN play, and you can't argue against that,

Really?

I don't remember having that kind of a track record reading you

[Dunnstral]

You KNOW WELL that I

I don't

[Dunnstral]

Not the same as arguing against the cop check

Oh, yes it is. And besides, I was not a real entity at the time, and I didn't read thoroughly. I just remembered Kitty was told to check DGB and Vassex was arguing he should not declare the target beforehand when it was brought up today.

It isn't because the cop still checks dgb and your read was a one line one post thing

[Dunnstral]

i dont know if samantha thinks he mafia or not maybe i missed it

I don't even remember any dunnstral posts this game

but the conclusion I came to in the nancy vs titus game was that, while town and mafia games seem kind of similar on the surface, his town games have passion behind his posts

You should read my posts

[Dunnstral]

Your argument is the logical opposite of Rathe's argument, who is saying that I'm scum for posting more on day 2

[Dunnstral]

6 mafia

[Dunnstral]

I have no redactions.

[Dunnstral]

Dunn vs STD giving me tvt vibes.

Based on what?

I wouldn't say this atm

You should check your null reads.