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[petapan]

VOTE: hugs

[petapan]

cool dgbs town

[petapan]

VOTE: dwlee

tedious pedantry

serious vote

[petapan]

one mafia outed themselves on page 1 we're off to a good start

[petapan]

ok scum

[petapan]

for the record i have setup-related thoughts but they're not for sharing in the early game, will talk more about it later

[petapan]

yes please try to double down on your sidetrack because you think you have

such a great point

[petapan]

I think DW is town. I sorta skimmed and I'm going to reread it but I think the whole "don't claim, roles won't help us figure shit out" is very untrue. I don't really think DGB is scum for it b/c I could see how town that just got burned could think that.

for the record i have setup-related thoughts but they're not for sharing in the early game, will talk more about it later

like this seems like a scum post.

lol nero chainsawing for his buddy already

[petapan]

i literally never make that post about the setup as scum and it'll be apparent why when i talk about it

[petapan]

yes please try to double down on your sidetrack because you think you have

such a great point

peta is just all up on DBG's backside here

nevermind that i was the first one to engage dwlee and call him scum, my point is way less baking up dgb and ore that the way dwlee chose to engage and turn things into a pedantic argument about how not to play where he could make an "ideal" theoretical point about how "we shouldn't play it like mountainous" that glosses over what dgb is actually trying to say (we should emphasize dayplay and minimize decisions based on mechanical speculation, basic stuff). in the process he steers the conversation toward something non-game-advancing, that is, arguing about "well of course you should consider claims in a normal setup". and when i immediately jump him after that he responds not like someone who has genuine conviction in what he's arguing but cornered scum who doesn't know how to react

[petapan]

i literally never make that post about the setup as scum and it'll be apparent why when i talk about it

why is it important to not talk about it now and wait?

My thoughts exactly.

because doing so now is likely to derail the game a bit and it gives some info i don't want out right away, it'll make sense when i eventually talk about it

[petapan]

@peta, why do you think Nero is chainsawing for his buddy rather than two people who happen to agree? It sounds like Nero and DGB were both in the same game and thus have different perspectives.

because there's a nascent wagon on dwlee and he's coming in looking to discredit one of the vocal accusers with shit arguments while offering a flat defense of dwlee with no actual substance

[petapan]

he's just scum thats stringing us along "guys don't kill me, I have important information to give." but he's not worried about getting nighkilled b4 he can out

i'll be explaining it day 1, lmao at trying to make this argument (it's not related to my role, for the record)

[petapan]

he's just scum thats stringing us along "guys don't kill me, I have important information to give." but he's not worried about getting nighkilled b4 he can out

i'll be explaining it day 1, lmao at trying to make this argument (it's not related to my role, for the record)

How can you have important information that you're not releasing if it's not role related?

VOTE: peta

titus, titus. sigh.

it's mod meta stuff, if you really have to know

[petapan]

@peta, why do you think Nero is chainsawing for his buddy rather than two people who happen to agree?

i know the answer to this one too! It fits his narrative. It's just strongly worded bullshit and if DW is town and gets lynched today then he can just push me tomorrow.

you'd assume i'd have enough credibility to push through an elim on you after hardshoving an elimination on town day 1? doesn't track as a believable thought process

[petapan]

@peta, why do you think Nero is chainsawing for his buddy rather than two people who happen to agree?

i know the answer to this one too! It fits his narrative. It's just strongly worded bullshit and if DW is town and gets lynched today then he can just push me tomorrow.

you'd assume i'd have enough credibility to push through an elim on you after hardshoving an elimination on town day 1? doesn't track as a believable thought process

considering that there are tons of scum that get away with bad pushes all the time...

it's like you are pretending you've never played mafia b4

this is my first game actually

[petapan]

1 out of 3 is okay if we're playing baseball but in mafia not so much

[petapan]

I mean, the way I feel rn is that DGB's proposal is a little anti-town and

you could maybe make the argument that she's open wolfing

but then I could easily see a town DGB that got burnt and legit thinks it a good idea to lynch without claims and play this like a scumsided mountainous setup. I think DW sees that this can be bad and is opposed to it. I'm surprised that Rathe and Titus also think DGB's proposal is good. I feel like Peta is scum that's just trying to chum up to DGB and her proposal generally benefits his faction.

dgb doesn't lead with that post as scum, lol at you trying to hedge on that too

you are scum who is threatened by me identifying dgb as town early and are trying to discredit me, you're already dead

[petapan]

if you think I'm scum reading DGB then you really aren't reading my posts. Also, you are being pretty manipulative with that cherry pick.

Also, the fact that you are taking the opportunity to argue about DGB instead of what I said about you doesn't feel right.

i know you're not but you blatantly hedged in that post which shows a lack of willingness to commit to the townread, don't try to misrep

i care way less about dgb's proposal (which i've barely commented on) than trying to sort the alignment of dgb as well as the people reacting to it, arguing like my nefarious plan is to get people to play mechanically suboptimal is disingenuous horseshit. seen enough of dgb who's had a real rough string of games (one of which was my fault) to say that's a town opener. arguing that someone making a "correct" argument about how to play a normal setup must be town for it is bad reasoning, scum love to get caught up in boring arguments about mechanics that they "truly believe" and acting like arguing against dgb is "protown" or w/e is an easy stance to take that offers nothing

[petapan]

a "rough string of games" does not excuse a braindead argument like that from a player that you're portraying as being competent and has a 16 year old account

dgb has seen people screw up multiple games recently with bad setup spec assumptions and it's perfectly understandable from that perspective. do i intend to play that way? not really. but that's irrelevant for my read on it

you say it's braindead, do you think dgb is scummy for making that post?

[petapan]

I'm thinking out loud. I don't know DGB's alignment and I think there's plenty of potential scum motivation in it (her proposal) yes perhaps its something too bold to come from scum (although the majority of the players that reacted to it didn't scum read her for it) but to say that there is absolutely positively no way she posts that as scum seems a bit TMIy. You say I'm hedging but I think thats a super reasonable way of looking @ things from the POV of someone thats uninformed.

i care way less about dgb's proposal (which i've barely commented on) than

trying to sort the alignment of dgb

as well as the people reacting to it

I'll take things mafia say to try to look town for 100, Alex.

I also think the bolded is 100% bullshit. You are claiming you have her sorted so why do you still need to sort her?

lol pure weasel word bullshit, my point is i'm not getting into an argument about should we/shouldn't we play like this is mountainous

arguing like my nefarious plan is to get people to play mechanically suboptimal is disingenuous horseshit.

maybe I'm confused then. Aren't you the one that thinks DGB's plan to not claim and lynch regardless of their claimed role and play this like a mountainous game is a good plan? if not and you think it's "mechanically suboptimal" why was it scummy that DW objected to it?

i never said it was a good plan - i think at the heart of it caring about dayplay much more than claims is the road to success but i am not literally arguing for no one to ever claim ever. i think dgb only proposes that as town though

dwlee coming in the way he did is scum because it was an argument designed to be "correct" and score points by arguing against a weird off the wall proposal but is a sort of generic safe argument ("no you guys, playing like it's mountainous is bad") but offers nothing, is not game advancing, is not scumhunting, just an easy, bland conversation subject. when i called him on this he didn't respond like a townie with a sincere belief, he just went into a mirror attack on me. the idea that he is town simply for arguing against a proposal that a majority of players are unlikely to agree to is terrible logic and makes no sense

[petapan]

Masons have to have a partner for it to be normal I think.

Nero gets to be town. Titus is nullscum for the way she interacted with the DGB proposal and her early vote on me. Peta is weird af for holding onto this "mod meta" that is apparently so important but not important enough to just say.

"weird" because you can't actually even begin to broach why i'd bother to do that as scum (i wouldn't) but want to act like it's bad anyway

[petapan]

lol nero and dwlee are absolutely howling right now

[petapan]

not going to bother with further intrusions because it's clear his only aims are to distort

[petapan]

Is Osuka also evil, peta?

osuka is TBD, i have a lean but not worth outing prior to interrogating

[petapan]

nah, they aren't at all, but scum would try to say that

osuka's commentary on the post amounted to "this is stupid shit". differet phrasing, different manner of engaging with the post. most of his content isn't terribly AI so far though, question to me about thinking dgb wouldn't make that post as scum is maybe slightly +town, i replied to him questioning looking for further engagement

any more trivial false equivalency bullshit you want to throw at me?

[petapan]

or, to put it in other words i don't

care

about consistency especially early in the game, i'm running on pure instinct that tells me his engagement with the post could maybe come from town but your engagement was not town. attempting to score a ticky-tack point against me for "inconsistency" is about what i'd expect from scum here though

[petapan]

osuka cld i get an answer to 108?

[petapan]

I like osuka as town. His inconsistencies are unlikely to be scummy as scum would likely just pick one side or the other.

agreed, his reasoning so far feels plausible and not tied to any particular agenda

I think a possible scum sucka could easily play both ends in the middle but I kinda feel like the majority of people that are posting are town and scum are the ones that haven't posted or are the useless one posters.

that's like half the game and it's been less than a day, pretty worthless observation since by sheer math there's likely scum in a group that large

i think it happens a lot that people who talk more early r more likely town

especially ones who get into big discussions

Titus did you start townreading me or just start scumreading peta more?

Rathe I feel like you're evil.

Scumreading peta more. I'm in a state of conflict with you two. I am scumreading you both yet you both shouldn't be scum together. So that means I am wrong somewhere. Having wagons on you both lets me assess you both at the same time.

titus

[petapan]

yes please try to double down on your sidetrack because you think you have

such a great point

peta is just all up on DBG's backside here

nevermind that i was the first one to engage dwlee and call him scum, my point is way less baking up dgb and ore that the way dwlee chose to engage and turn things into a pedantic argument about how not to play where he could make an "ideal" theoretical point about how "we shouldn't play it like mountainous" that glosses over what dgb is actually trying to say (we should emphasize dayplay and minimize decisions based on mechanical speculation, basic stuff). in the process he steers the conversation toward something non-game-advancing, that is, arguing about "well of course you should consider claims in a normal setup". and when i immediately jump him after that

he responds not like someone who has genuine conviction in what he's arguing but cornered scum who doesn't know how to react

Could you explain what you're seeing by DWLee that looks like cornered scum? Trying to understand this viewpoint but I just can't

response to me slapping him with my vote on page 1 didn't look like a town reaction

[petapan]

pretty worthless observation since by sheer math there's likely scum in a group that large

so like peta + some of

Derek12
Dragon of the West
ssbm_Kyouko
LordEvan
hugsandchocolate


andre and dunn are my invest pile

its like 5 names as I wasn't really counting Andre and Dunn hence why their names are separate. Though perhaps Dunn should have been on that list. Andre is a lurksack but I expect him to start playing if he's town.

IDK man, I kinda get a bad vibe that you are telling me there's likely to be scum in a group of 5 names. Like I guess its certainly not impossible that in any given name if you pick out a group of 5 names you'll be fairly likely to hit scum. How many of ssbm, dragon and hac are scum?

don't know don't care lmao

[petapan]

do u think so cuz im voting u or cuz of another reason

why exactly are you voting DW? you just sorted plopped down a vote on a growing bandwagon.

im sheeping this game n i think dgb is probably town

do u think so cuz im voting u or cuz of another reason

why exactly are you voting DW? you just sorted plopped down a vote on a growing bandwagon.

im sheeping this game n i think dgb is probably town

lol every new account is just someone's alt huh

regardless, i see people suspecting rathe, does he really fall back to just blatantly sheeping like this as scum? ehhh. not sold on it

[petapan]

getting town vibes from nero, reminds me of the few games I played with him where he was town, nothing out of the ordinary, feeling pretty confident about this one

i never care for this sort of casual meta read, he's gonna seem similar across games because he's the same person, without a baseline for his scum meta this sort of thinking can easily lead you astray

No, I changed my vote because I think Peta might be just stubborn town and I already said I find rathe scummy. His response to me saying I thought he was evil was "k" and ignoring the post where I explained why I didn't like his post to ask me if it was just because he was voting me.

you're saying i might be stubborn, it's barely been a day into the game though, do you believe from your posting up through now i should be seeing you as town?

or nom3 is just scum that's pushing the next easiest wagon to split the peta voters. Peta/DW aren't being voted b/c they are loud. Its b/c Peta is generally scummy for buddying DGB and being

LAMIST

. I also feel like he kinda slipped in 156. DGB's proposal, DW calling it out and then Peta calling him scum for it is most of if not all the game so nom not really wanting to comment on that is pretty suspicious but I feel like Peta put scum in a bad position anyways. And just whitwashing the day so far as "pushing confrontational loudmouths" is so incredibly wrong. He's being a revisionist.

There is one thing I'll give nom and its that Rathe is sort of coasting and the whole "I'm sheeping this game" is somewhat concerning but I'm not quite sure if it's outside of his wheelhouse as town b/c last game a few players called me scum on d1 (though I only remember Andre) and he investigated me so...

not really getting stubborn town from Peta.

everything nero spouts is just total bullshit, townreading someone early isn't in and of itself buddying, my posts aren't LAMIST, nothing in that post is close to a slip

this feels like a sort of reflexive discrediting of nom, who is, i dunno, his entry so far i would say is

fine

and the conclusion nero jumps to, that nom is my partner trying to save me with an alternate wagon is a fairly ludicrous reach, i'm confbiased but imho that's not a believable train of thought at all

[petapan]

like, I don't really understand why you'd join a game with the intention to not play unless you landed scum and lurking/coasting helps your faction.

It was more of a joke at Osuka. He doesn't like me saying that.
If you gave me more than 8 minutes to read the game that would be useful.

But I have now.
And I still don't understand how Dwlee is the leading wagon.

Your post 74 I agree with but not so much seeing anything else that seems bad.

So someone explain to me like I'm 5 why Dwlee or Peter Pan are a good choice here?

DGB: theory
Dwelee: no
peta: anyone who denies the theory is scum x10000
people: vote

please don't summarize arguments you don't actually understand

[petapan]

nevermind that i was the first one to engage dwlee and call him scum, my point is way less baking up dgb and ore that the way dwlee chose to engage and turn things into a pedantic argument about how not to play where he could make an "ideal" theoretical point about how "we shouldn't play it like mountainous" that glosses over what dgb is actually trying to say (we should emphasize dayplay and minimize decisions based on mechanical speculation, basic stuff). in the process he steers the conversation toward something non-game-advancing, that is, arguing about "well of course you should consider claims in a normal setup". and when i immediately jump him after that he responds not like someone who has genuine conviction in what he's arguing but cornered scum who doesn't know how to react

This doesn't read like someone who's unhappy at Dwlee for not following DGB's plan. It seems to be more about how it was shut down and the reaction Dwlee given. I'm not saying I agree, but let's not read a story here.
Peta can explain some thought process into this and why Dwlee is scum here.

yes that's about what i was getting at - bogging things down in some boring "correct" argument is how i'd expect scum to approach someone coming out with a wacky plan to start the day - it's an easy point to make and offers basically nothing. i hit him with my vote for it and didn't like the response.

nero of course is dead set on trying to misconstrue that i was arguing that no one should claim at all in accordance with dgb, which is not what i was trying to say and i don't think someone making an honest reading could get that (except T3, but he's a special case)

[petapan]

Peta claimed to have "important setup info" then walked it back to "mod meta." The push on me that he has made is also terribad and I feel like he has failed to engage with me in a way that town would (as in, he acts like he has the game solved and doesn't even want to consider he could be wrong).

am i stubborn town or not engaging in a way that town would, i didn't make any posts between this one and the last i quoted, so why the difference?

[petapan]

Okay, thanks. And are those threads usually related to specific PRs or is it possible for vanilla roles to have access to PTs?

players in neighborhoods can be PRs or have no other powers - it used to be that neighbors were usually otherwise vanilla but PRs in hoods are more common now

real quick - you've been away from the site for a while, have you played mafia at all in the meantime? do you remember the games you played on this site at all?

[petapan]

this feels like a sort of reflexive discrediting of nom, who is, i dunno, his entry so far i would say is fine and the conclusion nero jumps to, that nom is my partner trying to save me with an alternate wagon is a fairly ludicrous reach, i'm confbiased but imho that's not a believable train of thought at all

is this any different than you calling me DWs partner b/c I didn't feel like what he did was scummy?

yeah b/c it was the fact that you came at me in a sleazy way and keep trying to make weaselly misrep arguments, this is largely independent of my read of dwlee where yours is conspiracy-brain shit that stop making sense in worlds where i am town

[petapan]

Peta claimed to have "important setup info" then walked it back to "mod meta." The push on me that he has made is also terribad and I feel like he has failed to engage with me in a way that town would (as in, he acts like he has the game solved and doesn't even want to consider he could be wrong).

am i stubborn town or not engaging in a way that town would, i didn't make any posts between this one an d the last i quoted, so why the difference?

Sorry, inconsistencies don't matter.
Seriously though, you selectively quoted this to remove the context of someone asking why I think you might be scum which is exactly the kind of nonsense I'm talking about.

okay uh i'll be honest

i did not see that this was intended as a reply to VFP because you did not quote it and there was a nero post between it and yours and i'm blitzing through the thread trying to catch up with what happened while i was at work

so point retracted

[petapan]

I can't see how Dwlee disagreeing about strategy can generate such a strong reaction from you that you feel a "correct" argument is bogging things down? Like even if it's slightly pedantic, aren't those the exact discussions that should help town align on a strategy? Especially when someone is suggesting a strategy for the group to follow on one of the first pages of the game. AND you go on to say that you don't necessarily agree with DGB's strategy....then what's your suggestion? ignore making any semblance of a plan rather than determine a path forward and work to make town's plan better? It's weird to not take a stance on DGB's early suggestion, but then scum read someone for openly saying they disagree with it.

sigh. please refer to my question asking about how much mafia you have played because this site has been around a while and the meta for playing most setups is fairly well established: run someone up, ask for a claim, people decide if they believe the claim or not, if they believe it or don't want to kill it that day we move on to a new target. it's not like we need to get together and conference every game for deciding how we're going to play, i'm not sure why you would expect it to be that way? like this is going to be a real uphill battle if i'm gonna have to give you the mafia 101 crash course

the point dgb was making was that recently normal setups have been outright trollish in their design and people have lost town games by making bad assumptions about setup mechanics. "play the game as if it were mountainous is" is obviously an extreme suggestion but at the heart of it favoring dayplay over claims isn't bad. dwlee's retort to that post was pedantic, and i felt trying to drag things into the realm of pure theory scummy

[petapan]

Okay, thanks. And are those threads usually related to specific PRs or is it possible for vanilla roles to have access to PTs?

players in neighborhoods can be PRs or have no other powers - it used to be that neighbors were usually otherwise vanilla but PRs in hoods are more common now

real quick - you've been away from the site for a while, have you played mafia at all in the meantime? do you remember the games you played on this site at all?

\

I haven't played any mafia since I've been away from the site, but I've played deception-type games like Secret Hitler. And I don't remember anything meaningful from the couple games I did play (I think I only played 2). I think I remember getting targeted really early the game I was mafia and played it poorly.

i asked because you were in a hood in one of your old games, granted i don't necessarily expect you to remember stuff from 5 years ago but was maybe a little concerned you might be playing up the angle of being unfamiliar to get townread, like the newbie card. that's paranoid of me tho, oi think so far you've been all right

[petapan]

i like vfp this game

t3 is also probs town

[petapan]

this feels like a sort of reflexive discrediting of nom, who is, i dunno, his entry so far i would say is fine and the conclusion nero jumps to, that nom is my partner trying to save me with an alternate wagon is a fairly ludicrous reach, i'm confbiased but imho that's not a believable train of thought at all

is this any different than you calling me DWs partner b/c I didn't feel like what he did was scummy?

yeah b/c it was the fact that you came at me in a sleazy way and keep trying to make weaselly misrep arguments, this is largely independent of my read of dwlee where yours is conspiracy-brain shit that stop making sense in worlds where i am town

I don't know if you are town. I think you are scummy for hard-buddying DGB and I said so in 60. I do think your push on DW is bad and make sense to like no one in the thread.

several people were voting him so i don't see how it makes sense to no one but ok

[petapan]

I still feel like DW being against DGB's proposal ranges from town-null. Like I certainly understand that DW could be scum that called out an anti-town policy for town cred but I don't understand that he has to be scum b/c of it. Also, Peta is being selective here where he thinks that I and DW are scum for not liking DGB plan but not osuka.

not selective, already explained it, way he reacted to it felt genuine enough, this is only a significant difference if you're just looking to intentionally misrepresent me which clearly you are

[petapan]

i guess the hood is actually real? i assumed anya was doing a bit or something

[petapan]

I can't see how Dwlee disagreeing about strategy can generate such a strong reaction from you that you feel a "correct" argument is bogging things down? Like even if it's slightly pedantic, aren't those the exact discussions that should help town align on a strategy? Especially when someone is suggesting a strategy for the group to follow on one of the first pages of the game. AND you go on to say that you don't necessarily agree with DGB's strategy....then what's your suggestion? ignore making any semblance of a plan rather than determine a path forward and work to make town's plan better? It's weird to not take a stance on DGB's early suggestion, but then scum read someone for openly saying they disagree with it.

sigh. please refer to my question asking about how much mafia you have played because this site has been around a while and the meta for playing most setups is fairly well established: run someone up, ask for a claim, people decide if they believe the claim or not, if they believe it or don't want to kill it that day we move on to a new target. it's not like we need to get together and conference every game for deciding how we're going to play, i'm not sure why you would expect it to be that way? like this is going to be a real uphill battle if i'm gonna have to give you the mafia 101 crash course

the point dgb was making was that recently normal setups have been outright trollish in their design and people have lost town games by making bad assumptions about setup mechanics. "play the game as if it were mountainous is" is obviously an extreme suggestion but at the heart of it favoring dayplay over claims isn't bad. dwlee's retort to that post was pedantic, and i felt trying to drag things into the realm of pure theory scummy

So I understand there's going to be a meta and I'm not suggesting a conference as necessary; but if someone disagrees about DGB's suggestion I don't see the harm in openly disagreeing. Maybe that's because I tend to be a pedantic person myself, I see value in some minutia. But also, isn't DGB suggesting a strategy offhand early on just as derailing and promoting the "conference" you want to avoid? The meta is so established that nothing is worth discussing to you, so why bother

in a sense it could be disruptive, that's true, but i simply don't think it was ill-intentioned in the way dgb presented it. that sort of idea is much more likely to be met with hostility and rejection, which is not particularly beneficial for scum, where arguing a "common sense" approach against dgb's proposal is much less risky, because people will leap to his defense for saying the "right" thing about how to play, even though anyone can argue that. this is like how nero keeps trying to paint me as being against the idea of people claiming but that's not

really

what i'm trying to say.

i'm sorry but i don't think here's any way i'm gonna be able to get this argument across to you in a satisfactory way, i'm okay with that, i am not dead set on selling you specifically on dwlee scum. on day 1 especially i'm a player who plays off gut, and i don't think i'm going to be able to communicate that to you because we're not approaching the game from the same place (which is not a bad thing, to be clear)


also, sorry for traveling back in time, but i'm just catching up here so i'll be hopping back and forth

Okay, reading everything to catch up now. I'm at the end of page 5 and I'm not understanding the evolution of peta's argument. It started with scum reading Dwlee99 for being too pedantic when it just seemed like he was disagreeing with DGB's strategy. And now if anything peta's posts are just trying to twist anything they can to put the fire on other people over nothing. I really haven't played much mafia and I'm not familiar with petapan as a player, but their playstyle this game seems overly aggro.

Unofficial vote on peta here. gonna continue reading

is aggression scummy to you?

[petapan]

i guess the hood is actually real? i assumed anya was doing a bit or something

if it's real i'm real curious about what happened in that PT for anya to not only claim it but hard go for kyouko
like if Kyouko's been talking in there it changes some things about my read on the slot

anya is very trolly so like, i got no idea there





there's a bunch of people who are saying they want to catch up and a decent chunk of the game who has yet to post meaningful stuff, so i'm gonna step away for a while now to let the game breathe rather than just salvo back at nero endlessly

[petapan]

Idk man looks townie to me

agree to disagree

why are you voting dgb

[petapan]

lol nero and dwlee are absolutely howling right now

@Petapan you seem like a competent player - I’m not seeing this. Perhaps Dwlee is Scum (they had an awkwardly phrased response on Page 1, and I don’t disagree with you that arguing against DGB there is easy), but I think you’re wrong on Nero (or are expressing too much confidence Nero is Scum, rather). I’ll keep reading, maybe I’ll change my mind, but I think you’re coming out a bit too hot.

coming out hot is what day 1 is for, timidity is boring

[petapan]

i understand what you're saying and realize that no one has patience for any further back and forth, even though i'm still strong on the read i'm just repeating myself at this point. that's why i'm trying to broaden my view of the game and who i interact with right now rather than mindlessly tunneling

[petapan]

oops i just dropped my

491 revolver

that i use for cooking betting go into my workshop

gun room

so i can get a replacement before

petapan

does

still waiting on whatever happened in that pt, this is important

for the first day it was just me posting in there asking if anyone else was there bc i couldn't tell and also wasn't sure whether everyone in there is town or not

and then kyouko showed up and started jokingly claiming wolf but in a really weird way it was like he had a guilty conscious and wanted to get it off his chest but try and make it look like a joke

i'll give you a paraphrased example of what he said: "Sup I haven't played scum before but I'm gonna be pocketing you, it's nothing personal and I won't mind if you push me ftr"

and then i questioned him on it and he jokingly deflected and eventually said he was completely joking and he's definitely town but the way he's nervously declaring himself a city dweller feels really weird

Idk everything in that pt feels like a joke, like anya is crumbing all kinds of different roles but she crumbed traitor first and I think she's just crumbing others now to throw me off. I'm just going to keep an EYE on her tonight and by eye I mean GUN

are you claiming anya is outright lying about the contents of the PT?

[petapan]

yes that's about what i was getting at - bogging things down in some boring "correct" argument is how i'd expect scum to approach someone coming out with a wacky plan to start the day - it's an easy point to make and offers basically nothing. i hit him with my vote for it and didn't like the response.

nero of course is dead set on trying to misconstrue that i was arguing that no one should claim at all in accordance with dgb, which is not what i was trying to say and i don't think someone making an honest reading could get that (except T3, but he's a special case)

If anything it feels like your vote should be towards Nero more than Dwlee.
With the above it just seems more that players like Dwlee and T3 are mis understanding your view while Nero is using this to push agenda.

I don't think Nero is, and I don't think that this scum read is strong enough to have had Dwlee in the lead votes at this point.
How does Dwlee town react to DGB's plan?

Also, what is the mod information / meta you have?
Assuming this relates to the information you were talking about?

i think both are scummy, i haven't seen anything from dwlee that felt like cause to unvote so i've kept my vote there

don't know dwlee, not going to imagine up some response to dgb that i would read as town because it suits my taste. i

could

see town seeing that post by dgb and arguing against it (i haven't raised that issue with everyone reacting negatively to it), it was a combination of how he chose to respond to it, which felt like he was arguing in a way to score points rather than advance the game + his reaction to my voting him, where he just clumsily pulled the "i know you are but what am i?" card to an early attack. didn't feel natural.

i'll get into the mod meta stuff in a bit, it deserves its own post

[petapan]

We're just danking out in there

that's not an answer

[petapan]

everyone is saying he is town but i dont think so

VOTE: osuka

There once was a time when power roles helped the town. Lately, mods are distributing roles in such a way that power roles HURT the town. I spent a whole game fighting townies who thought I was scum for being a vanilla cop (aka "PR hunter" they said) for example. And the neighborhood with two traitors had me see red, because when one is dead, the other "becomes conftown" and here we have role distribution meant to HELP the already informed minority.

Can you guys at least get on board with crumbing your targets, and if you're vanilla,

okay, listen, dgb. i'm pretty sure your intentions with this are good. but the fact is there's a hol in this. if you tell people to explicitly crumb their targets, the mafia are going to be looking for those crumbs, and by looking at who people are drumbing, they can narrow what type of role that person might be. so i think the idea is seriously flawed and people aren't likely to cooperate anyway. i think moving on is for the best, even though there's guaranteed to be screwiness with the roles

[petapan]

I think DGB's proposed strat only helps scum, sure maybe it got burned recently but I don't think that's any excuse to call to elim claims and have everyone lay crumbs.

Suggesting that is scummy, and it hasn't done anything to change my mind since

this i take issue with as well. just because you think the plan is bad, why is it necessarily scum motivated rather than town with a crazy idea? do you think it's typical scum play to propose a way of playing that helps scum openly on page 1 and hope people go along with it? because in my experience that's not something scum typically try to do at all

[petapan]

so, with regard to setup stuff, i would recommend looking at the roles in gypyx's previous two normal games:

mini 2169: random facts
mini 2180: fake peoples

gypyx is probably the most distinctive mod working in the normal queue right now, in that he really likes to play around with modifiers and combined roles and have atypical power distributions in his setups. expect claims to be wacky bullshit. here's a list of the town PRs in those games (avert your eyes here if you're DGB):

Town Combined Mailman Vanilla Cop
Role Watcher Neighbor
Town Ascetic Indecisive Doctor Neighbour
Town 1-shot Bulletproof Vengeful
Town Novice 3-shot Vigilante

Town Roaming Detective
Town Backup Roleblocker
Town Lazy Odd-night Tracker Even-night Motion Detector
Town Combined Roleblocker Friendly Neighbor
Town Disloyal Hider

in mini 2180, my scumteam was very easily able to exploit people making bad assumptions about the setup balance in order to get easy eliminations ("surely there aren't two investigative roles in the setup, right? that's too much town power"). i want to make sure that doesn't happen this game, so i'm informing people now so they don't go off making bad assumptions and getting weirded out by claims this game. you can bet your ass as scum i never out this because i'm the only one in this playerlist who's played in a game he's hosted, and keeping this sort of info hidden has significantly more benefit for scum as it allows people to make dumb assumptions about claims

[petapan]

VOTE: Pete you play like you know DGB is town.

i've played with dgb a few times recently and am fairly confident on that read, yeah. would i have that read as scum? very possibly. is this a goo case against me? lol fuck no

[petapan]

I feel reasonably good about the following people being town:

DrippingGoofball - don't see scum opening he game that way, really committed to its wacky plan, seemingly arising out of frustration with trollish setups
Titus - is being Titusy, where what she says might not make sense there's real

conviction

behind what she's saying. i will probably inevitably get paranoid and doubt this when she continues to push some case i really hate but i will enjoy the moment of townreading her while it lasts
T3 - is like someone doing a dollar store Cogito Ergo Sum impression, with none of the underlying skill as a mafia player. votes don't feel bullshitty or opportunistic.
VFP - lie the way he came into the game, questioning pretty much everyone but in a way the seems purposeful and solvey

I lean toward town on the following people:
Andresvmb - liked the opener, positive start, seems geared toward solving but want to see a little more still
nomnomnom - came in speaking reasonably, somewhat concerned that he seemed a little fencesitty toward me arguing with nero but i've liked the way he's been approaching the ame so far
Rathe - just a gut call off the stream-of-cosniousness-y spam
Save The Dragons - weaker read but sort of wouldn't expect scum to openly admit to being lazy and not reading when voting me when that could easily get them attacked for opportuism

I do not know what to do with these people:
Anya
ssbm_Kyouko

i felt like they might be doing a bit or something, but anya's vote on kyouko seems serious enough. if they're actually claiming different things are being said in the hood then i assume that's a difference check and one is scum but i'd like some form of clarification here. (had some slight concern anya's approach toward me could be pockety but only if i turn out to be tunneling town)

I am uncertain about these people:
osuka - didn't hate his start though i get why some people did, on gut it didn't feel bad but i need to see more from him
Derek12 - no idea
Dragon of the West - effectively a newbie, not enough in the way of game related content yet to judge. expressed suspicion of me feels misguided town on first guess though

These people are scummy:
Dunnstral - not gonna claim to be an expert at reading him but is probably just lurking scum here, his pop-ins have been super useless
Dwlee99
Nero Cain


never attempted to read everyone day 1 in a large before, wild

[petapan]

(fair note i had that list typed before save the dragons changed his vote)

[petapan]

was probably about how he was critical of both dgb's opener and nero's townread of dwlee

[petapan]

i guess the hood is actually real? i assumed anya was doing a bit or something

anya might honestly be doing a bit

she's always doing a bit, it's just hard to know what about

i lied about catching up i tried reading everything and it's making my eyes glaze over i'm just going to roll with my gut

VOTE: petapan

inclined to sheep this but i do want to at least make an effort to catch up

you're not really talking to me like someone who finds me scummy?

[petapan]

was probably about how he was critical of both dgb's opener and nero's townread of dwlee

Don't ever do this. It's scummy as fuck. It stops me from reading Osaka's reaction to my genuineness. Plus it hands Osuka an argument that my answer was spoonfed that he can capitalize on as scum or he can't townread me for the same reason if he's town.

why is it scummy to try to guess at what you had forgotten?

[petapan]

i guess the hood is actually real? i assumed anya was doing a bit or something

anya might honestly be doing a bit

she's always doing a bit, it's just hard to know what about

i lied about catching up i tried reading everything and it's making my eyes glaze over i'm just going to roll with my gut

VOTE: petapan

inclined to sheep this but i do want to at least make an effort to catch up

you're not really talking to me like someone who finds me scummy?

what the fuck is this even supposed to mean? is my tone supposed to match what you expect it to be for a given read you think i have on you?

get your head out of your ass

what's got you so grumpy?

[petapan]

was probably about how he was critical of both dgb's opener and nero's townread of dwlee

Don't ever do this. It's scummy as fuck. It stops me from reading Osaka's reaction to my genuineness. Plus it hands Osuka an argument that my answer was spoonfed that he can capitalize on as scum or he can't townread me for the same reason if he's town.

why is it scummy to try to guess at what you had forgotten?

It's not. It's the timing of the reply and answering on my behalf. Let osuka follow up first, then chime in.

eh i didn't think he was going to offer more than he did, but i felt the need to fill in because i had thought similarly at the time and that volunteering that info would be helpful to the conversation

sorry for steeping on your toes

[petapan]

512 is a stupid post and it leads nowhere

why are you dodging the question?

i felt it was a fairly innocuous question that hardly warranted the response you gave it, you seem to be leaning into this performative grouchiness schtick for reasons i'm not entirely sure of

i thought it was weird that your response to me asking about anya was entirely level headed and reasonable, like you were just conversing back with me, but then you quote std mentioning i could be scum and you're like "oh yeah i could go that way" without any sort of indicator otherwise. like, generally i don't just converse regularly with people i'm scumreading

but i'm not even saying it means anything for your alignment! it was just weird, i brought it up to ask about it and i have no idea why you took such umbrage to it

[petapan]

Alright, starting to catch up on new posts:

also, sorry for traveling back in time, but i'm just catching up here so i'll be hopping back and forth

Okay, reading everything to catch up now. I'm at the end of page 5 and I'm not understanding the evolution of peta's argument. It started with scum reading Dwlee99 for being too pedantic when it just seemed like he was disagreeing with DGB's strategy. And now if anything peta's posts are just trying to twist anything they can to put the fire on other people over nothing. I really haven't played much mafia and I'm not familiar with petapan as a player, but their playstyle this game seems overly aggro.

Unofficial vote on peta here. gonna continue reading

is aggression scummy to you?

I don't think aggression alone is scummy; I think aggression combined with irrationality and/or it being different from a person's normal gameplay is scummy. And I just don't agree with your rationalization of your scum reads and the points you kept twisting to make claims about Dwlee & Nero. I read it as very "you going on the offensive so someone else is always forced to defend". Like I prefaced in that post, I'm not familiar with you as a player so I'll have to go through some old games of yours to see if going super aggro is town behavior from you; I just haven't had time to go through any of your recent games yet. That's why I made it an unofficial vote. But the aggro + (imo) irrational takes is what made that an initial scum read.

i can play aggressive as either alignment but in general am more likely to do it as town, i linked a recent scumgame of mine (mini 2180) in one of my posts, you can see there i was far more cautious than this one. in general aggression is more of a personality trait than an alignment one

[petapan]

yaeh how dare i, uh, say i can be aggressive as both alignments. that's uh. really bad play. yeah.

[petapan]

too many annoying yappy dogs in this game

[petapan]

that's a moronic reply to what i just said

if you're acutely aware of that _and_ highly confident of it, as can be concluded from 538, there is quite literally nothing stopping you from intentionally playing differently in order to achieve a goal (whatever that may be) - thus rendering the self-meta argument worthless

i seriously hope i wont have to explain everything in detail to you for the rest of the game

the argument that me playing a certain way is null is worthless? like dude you just seemed to have jumped intoattacking what i was saying without bothering to understand it, and you're accusing me of not understandingg you

how would i "intentionally play different to achieve a goal" off the statement "i can play aggressive as either alignment"? it's only saying that a certain behavior isn't a scumtell for me, there's nothing for me to manipulate because i've just self-described it as null

if you want to say "i'm more likely to be aggressive as town" is worthless, then sure, whatever, you're under no obligation to believe me! but you don't have to blow a gasket over it. you seem to be flying off the handle over a reflexive dislike of self-meta, but this seems to be a discussion that is almost entirely in the theoretical realm that is unlikely to be useful to the game we are actually playing right now


can you take a breather and calm down for a minute? what are your reads right now?

[petapan]

oh yes but please do go on about how that wasn't a towncase on yourself

i wouldn't really expect to be taken at my own word after a single line dude

what are your reads

[petapan]

that's a moronic reply to what i just said

if you're acutely aware of that _and_ highly confident of it, as can be concluded from 538, there is quite literally nothing stopping you from intentionally playing differently in order to achieve a goal (whatever that may be) - thus rendering the self-meta argument worthless

i seriously hope i wont have to explain everything in detail to you for the rest of the game

the argument that me playing a certain way is null is worthless? like dude you just seemed to have jumped intoattacking what i was saying without bothering to understand it, and you're accusing me of not understandingg you

how would i "intentionally play different to achieve a goal" off the statement "i can play aggressive as either alignment"? it's only saying that a certain behavior isn't a scumtell for me, there's nothing for me to manipulate because i've just self-described it as null

if you want to say "i'm more likely to be aggressive as town" is worthless, then sure, whatever, you're under no obligation to believe me! but you don't have to blow a gasket over it. you seem to be flying off the handle over a reflexive dislike of self-meta, but this seems to be a discussion that is almost entirely in the theoretical realm that is unlikely to be useful to the game we are actually playing right now
you mentioned going through my previous games and i directed you to one because i'd already posted it. is it manipulative to provide something you're looking for?

can you take a breather and calm down for a minute? what are your reads right now?

the issue I take with this argument is in that same post where you said "I can play aggressive as either alignment", you then specifically linked me to a game where you played a cautious scum. That seems manipulative even if your words preceding that were trying to project the sense of a neutral self-assessment. And it just feels like cherry-picking on your part.

VOTE: petapan

[petapan]

you mentioned going through my previous games and i directed you to one because i'd already posted it. is it manipulative to provide something you're looking for?


(uh, i butchered that and stuck my reply in the middle of the quote)

[petapan]

that's a moronic reply to what i just said

if you're acutely aware of that _and_ highly confident of it, as can be concluded from 538, there is quite literally nothing stopping you from intentionally playing differently in order to achieve a goal (whatever that may be) - thus rendering the self-meta argument worthless

i seriously hope i wont have to explain everything in detail to you for the rest of the game

the argument that me playing a certain way is null is worthless? like dude you just seemed to have jumped intoattacking what i was saying without bothering to understand it, and you're accusing me of not understandingg you

how would i "intentionally play different to achieve a goal" off the statement "i can play aggressive as either alignment"? it's only saying that a certain behavior isn't a scumtell for me, there's nothing for me to manipulate because i've just self-described it as null

if you want to say "i'm more likely to be aggressive as town" is worthless, then sure, whatever, you're under no obligation to believe me! but you don't have to blow a gasket over it. you seem to be flying off the handle over a reflexive dislike of self-meta, but this seems to be a discussion that is almost entirely in the theoretical realm that is unlikely to be useful to the game we are actually playing right now


can you take a breather and calm down for a minute? what are your reads right now?

the issue I take with this argument is in that same post where you said "I can play aggressive as either alignment", you then specifically linked me to a game where you played a cautious scum. That seems manipulative even if your words preceding that were trying to project the sense of a neutral self-assessment. And it just feels like cherry-picking on your part.

VOTE: petapan

an inordinate amount of your posting has been focused solely on me. do you have reads on other players in the game?

[petapan]

@nom

can we get a reads list from you

No
I hate reads lists in general for many reasons
If you wanna talk about specific slots then we can do so

that's how i usually am but i'm feeling tryhardy this game, maybe because of day 1 overconfidence, meh

[petapan]

i like osuka for town

can you explain this one

Also are people really proposing a dunn default lynch? look at the thread, we have 25 pages of people interacting with each other and you think voting for a hard lurk slot is the best idea? Come on we can do better

meh if he's town it should become obvious at some point, if that doesn't happen he should absolutely be killed because he will lurk as scum if people allow him to get away with it

I do think that is something scum does as early as possible because people are more forgiving of early posts. If it works, great, now you've either sown confusion in some players or best case, convinced PRs to crumb their targets.

sorry i don't find this line of thinking believable at all

[petapan]

you mentioned going through my previous games and i directed you to one because i'd already posted it. is it manipulative to provide something you're looking for?


(uh, i butchered that and stuck my reply in the middle of the quote)

Can you direct me to a town game of yours where you were very aggressive, particularly early in the game? I don't care about examples where you were cautious. I quickly looked through a couple of your ISOs and didn't see an instance, but you have so many games and threads that there's no way for me to thoroughly check that. Even without the aggro, I still think your reasoning in the early game was scummy.

viewtopic.php?f=84&t=83575 was a replace in but i showed up and hard deathtunneled town

Lean Town:

Titus - Scumhunting, scum wouldn't have a reason to make posts like 514 and 520
DGB - I agree DBG probably wouldn't put themselves out there and make that early game pos ti f they're mafia. Their follow-up posts seem to have real conviction, not like a mafia just doubling down for appearances. I don't think their early post alone warranted as much confidence in them as you seemed to immediately have, but I agree it's townie.
nom - I like their activity and thinking so far. sort of unrelated, but I also agree with them that we shouldn't be so eager to lynch a lurk spot without even trying to get them to be active first (through votes or otherwise)


Lean scum:
Peta - I didn't like how hard and fast you came out thinking Dwlee must've been scum for disagreeing with DGB's early post. That and the ensuing convo with Nero really seemed like you just going full offensive to deflect as much as possible. And I think your town read of DGB was too strong, too early for what they had posted (this is based on my memory of when you started seeming confident in your DGB read)
Kyouko - I feel like they haven't produced a lot of their own content. Mostly just quoting walls of text and then giving one line. I also don't like the dismissiveness about the pt and when asked questions
Rathe - This is mostly gut. Their early sheeping convos were weird to me

i've been in games with dgb and understood where their perspective and attitude was coming from immediately, i wouldn't expect someone without that background knowledge to get that read so quickly

[petapan]

I'm getting really intense townvibes from Dragon of the West.

i don't think it's that strong but he's earnest enough

[petapan]

VOTE: Titus

whats yr case against titus supposed to be

[petapan]

I just think she's lurky as scum. She's asking questions but has no follow-up. And I think if you and DW are TvT her dual scum read on you two makes a ton of sense as scum giving herself the flexibility to hop wherever she needed.

i don't really think she's lurking though?

Peta can you answer 504?

no

[petapan]

i don't feel particularly obligated to persuade you in particular that my read was genuine

[petapan]

oh yes but please do go on about how that wasn't a towncase on yourself

i wouldn't really expect to be taken at my own word after a single line dude

what are your reads

read: "i slipped please don't kill me"

yeah get out of here

top scumreads are you, rathe, and dgb, i think nero could be town. unsure about anya because she's just hard to read like that. i townread andres but i always townread andres so really take that with a pinch of salt

need to figure out nom, titus, dunn, std

how is that supposed to be a slip

[petapan]

Peta can you answer 504?

no

VOTE: petapan

piss poor. words fail me, and i know a lot of words. i know the best words, trust me. i have all the best words, and there are no words in the english language to describe the quality of this play so far

i might have said this at some point, but this is like a dumpster fire except the dumpster is falling down a flight of stairs and into a crowded hospital maternity ward where they keep high explosives

its nice reading posts written by someone with the mental maturity of an edgy teenager who listens to marilyn manson

[petapan]

oh yes but please do go on about how that wasn't a towncase on yourself

i wouldn't really expect to be taken at my own word after a single line dude

what are your reads

read: "i slipped please don't kill me"

yeah get out of here

top scumreads are you, rathe, and dgb, i think nero could be town. unsure about anya because she's just hard to read like that. i townread andres but i always townread andres so really take that with a pinch of salt

need to figure out nom, titus, dunn, std

how is that supposed to be a slip

you made a point and immediately backpedaled on it because you either didn't realize you said something that didn't match what you actually wanted to do, or just straight up fucked it and there's a crack in your fabricated reality

either way you put it that makes you +scum than before, especially in light of how shit your handling of my response was

no i just made an argument you didn't like and you blew a fucking gasket and called me scum for it, because apparently only scum do things that displease baby osuka

[petapan]

like seriously that is so anti town and just such a stupid reply to a completely legitimate line of questioning that i can't even imagine that comes from any town with more brain cells than they have digits so this slot kind of has to be scum

i assure you you would not catch me as scum, not that i have any reason to believe you catch scum with any regularity

[petapan]

Peta can you answer 504?

no

VOTE: petapan

piss poor. words fail me, and i know a lot of words. i know the best words, trust me. i have all the best words, and there are no words in the english language to describe the quality of this play so far

i might have said this at some point, but this is like a dumpster fire except the dumpster is falling down a flight of stairs and into a crowded hospital maternity ward where they keep high explosives

its nice reading posts written by someone with the mental maturity of an edgy teenager who listens to marilyn manson

i'll wait for you to try to justify the unjustifiable

if you get close to anything close to remotely resembling "not the worst i've ever seen i suppose", i'll give you a pass

i currently scumread him and have no desire to defend myself to a scumread, because i don't care what he does

wow that wasn't hard

[petapan]

alright

can you justify it to me or do i have to get you to contribute to this game by proxy

sigh, okay. despite finding you incredibly annoying and wanting as little to do with you as possible, for whatever reason i feel obligated to give a good faith answer here.

that stuff is...pretty standard for DGB as town, the blunt, underexplained reads that she goes off pushing assertively. I've MLed her before because I didn't understand what she was doing and tunneled her for it, then watched her get voted out by other people making the same mistake when i'd been confidently townreading her.

i wouldn't say the posts he quoted are inherently towny in a vacuum but i don't think they're especially bad, at all, and in light of the body of work i don't have a problem with it. if all she'd done was those votes/reads i wouldn't be confidently townreading there, but the strength of the read from other posts means it doesn't matter that much. i don't think switching from scumreading kyouko to voting anya after kyouko made a post explaining himself is scummy at all, and in fact explicitly dislike dwlee trying to frame it as bad in some way. it's like, someone thinks one thing > someone explains themself > they change their mind. that sequence is probably +town if anything

[petapan]

nero looking to possibly re-eval and asking questions about what if people's assumptions are wrong is actually possibly townish in the sense that i would expect him to just keep tunneling as scum. not fully committed to the idea though. need sleep.

[petapan]

catchin' up now

[petapan]

It's more that a 1 town and 1 scum neighborhood sounds weird.

should point out this happens literally all the time

i actually think anya is scummier than kyouko at this point though

i wouldn't say the posts he quoted are inherently towny in a vacuum but i don't think they're especially bad, at all, and in light of the body of work i don't have a problem with it. if all she'd done was those votes/reads i wouldn't be confidently townreading there, but the strength of the read from

other posts

means it doesn't matter that much.

What are the "other posts?" I quoted its entire ISO except for the mech related posts which I don't find alignment indicative.

i don't think switching from scumreading kyouko to voting anya after kyouko made a post explaining himself is scummy at all, and in fact explicitly dislike dwlee trying to frame it as bad in some way. it's like, someone thinks one thing > someone explains themself > they change their mind. that sequence is probably +town if anything

I typically like to see some sort of explanation for the change. Kyouko wasn't scumreading Anya I don't think (or at least wasn't voting her) so DGB saying "I believe you" and switching to Anya feels like it requires more explanation. Unvoting Kyouko, sure, I can understand that from what Kyouko posted, but why Anya?

"i don't find the mechanical stuff AI" well i do, what are you hoping to accomplish here exactly

liek, that stuff about the latter sequence as well, these feel like questions you should be asking to dgb and not me, seeing as dgb is still a player in the game and is capable of explaining themselves

[petapan]

You know what, I just lost a game to STD so I wanna see where this goes
VOTE: STD

We lost that game in an interesting way because I would have wanted to get you/Tris/No Lim out in the group of 3 thing, but regardless of that, I think your posting is kind of similar. I can't tell if it's just your playstyle so maybe I should look into your past games (I hate meta but whatever) to see if it's the same, but the way you kinda just pop in do random stuff bothers me. It's the like how I'm baffled by the townread on DGB when it does the same thing.

I see you make votes and do ~things~ but I feel like I don't have any insight into what you're thinking which makes it hard for me to know if you're evil.

to a certain extent this seems like annoyance at people who aren't saying much getting townread. i don't like the vote but the actual interaction with save the dragons is a little better, but rather than actually prodding him to explain anything it's just saying "you don't explain yourself so i think you might be scum" which is not much of a launching point for anything

[petapan]

I'm asking you to explain your read. These questions aren't for me to figure out DGB's alignment, it's to figure out yours.

I just don't understand how it is town-indicative for DGB to do very little except to talk about (what we agree is) anti-town mechanical play, but it is scum-indicative that I disagreed with it and discussed it in the beginning of the game. You accused me of trying to appear busy by talking about it (on page 1 and 2 no less) but you're fine with DGB posting about it in two digit pages and contributing little elsewhere.

but the way you phrase this seems like you decidedly don't think dgb should be townread for what it's doing, so why are you apparently totally uninterested in speaking to dgb?

[petapan]

anyway, the answer is only ever going to boil down to "i've played with dgb before and the things you are claiming are strange amount to playstyle quirks rather than anything alignment indicative". that's unlikely to satisfy you and i absolutely do not give a fuck


on a skim of the noughts and crosses game i actually think save the dragons is qualitatively different here than he was in that game, BUT that is an unusual setup and not nearly as familiar with him based on a small sample so i wouldn't strongly base my read of him off that. do think he's playing the game in a towny way

[petapan]

If Kyo and Anya are the only people in the neighborhood, it could not even be a neighborhood and they could just both be mafia doing some weird gambit.

this literally never happens

[petapan]

Dragons of the West literally vibrates townie wavelengths and everyone voting rmthis slot is confscum.

gonna be honest this makes me think he's scum

[petapan]

If Kyo and Anya are the only people in the neighborhood, it could not even be a neighborhood and they could just both be mafia doing some weird gambit.

this literally never happens

Recently there was a neighborhood with two scums who made a big show of scumhunting for the third member.

yes, well, there is obvious incentive for scum to fake scumhunting in that situation. in a situation where neither are in a hood, claiming to be in a hood together is a terrible play because if one ever flips the other is doomed. it's not a gambit anyone realistically attempts

normally i'd say dragon suggesting that could be possible is towny paranoia but given the circumstances where both were voting him i don't really want to give a pass on that

[petapan]

on first glance nero's posts on the last page are, i hate to say it, good

[petapan]

its strange to me for someone to say i think this person is town but they could be scum

that's not really what i said. i just don't think him being paranoid of the hood is a towntell, though in other circumstances i might

gun to head read on him is still newbie town despite my jokes earlier but there are some little doubts i dont want to get into right now

sorry if thats too nuanced

[petapan]

I still am not a fan of Peta's posting and he's sitting on a wagon that's more or less dead so at best he's unhelpful town. I just think that if he's town it might help explain Titus' dual scum reads on DW/Peta and nom not wantin to vote there and possibly keep a 1v1 going. Though you could prob make the argument that Peta is scum with Titus and Nom.

I also think Peta is active lurking and I wouldn't be sad if we lynched him instead of Titus or nom.

dude all the fucking wagons are dead who am i supposed to be voting

[petapan]

do you even have scum reads besides me and DW?

yeah, dunn. that's maybe not a super exciting read but i think his lurk is a scum lurk given the way he's seemingly only popping in at the bare minimum to say something random where i'd expect him as town to have a little more investment in what he was saying. anya, kyouko, osuka, and dragon of the west are all in the "not especially towny" pile that i would be okay voting. i have a lot of townreads!

[petapan]

On the flip side I want peta to really think about whether a me and Nero team even makes sense because it doesn't and feels like he might just be pushing us to push us it's dumb.

why does it not make sense lol

[petapan]

meh i'm probably being too free with my titus townread, but other than that i'm okay with my townreads being what they are

[petapan]

so if kyouko was your scum read why did you never join that wagon? westward dragon?

i said he was "not especially towny", not a hard scumread, fuck off

[petapan]

On the flip side I want peta to really think about whether a me and Nero team even makes sense because it doesn't and feels like he might just be pushing us to push us it's dumb.

why does it not make sense lol

I don't think scum!Nero would defend a scum!Dwlee in that way also Nero posts like town also I am town so you're probably doubly wrong not even singly.

i think if his teammate was getting jumped on early he'd absolutely go for the discredit if he felt like he could divert the wagon by attacking one of the accusers

sassing me here is kind of towny though

[petapan]

man, you need to chill out.

shut up idiot

[petapan]

75% of the people in the game aren't playing so every time i post in here i just gotta argue with you and you keep spouting bullshit every time it's tedious

[petapan]

yes? that's the entire point. it'd be essentially a compromise vote on someone who i don't townread but don't have an especially solid reason for thinking they're scum. entirely consistent.

you are just actively trying to twist everything i say

[petapan]

oh, I get it you are trying to play schematics. The underlining point of my q was y are you not voting two wagons that you said you'd join?

wich is hilarious that you are voting DW for getting the underlining meaning of DGB's 17 but you are just as guilty as DW FMPOV.

nah this is fucking weasel shit dude

my actual feeling on the kyoko wagon at the time it happened was that i wanted clarity on the neighbor thing because i thought they were accusing each other of lying in the hood. then it sort of evaporated and they seemed to townread each other more. again, if i voted there it would simply be for the case of "not that towny, hasn't said enough". dragon is, as i said earlier, an "ehh might be town" lean but i'd vote him if i had to because the read is't as strong as my other townreads. this isn't a hard concept but you're just trying to score points on me for literally everything

[petapan]

I am a very talkative player so yeah. I was hoping STD might explain at least some of their current thoughts in response but I'm beginning to suspect that's not going to happen. Guess I could have been more direct in asking for thoughts on a specific thing.

if there's anything specific let me know but a lot of it admittedly is gut

whys your vote on kyouko

[petapan]

VOTE: Dwlee99 i think my stance on titus has changed too but i think i always scumread her so i'm trying to be wary of that.

the irony is i'm vaguely getting cold feet on the dwlee vote atm and wanted to talk to someone i think is town about exploring another vote

[petapan]

meh

VOTE: anya

[petapan]

like what specifically

[petapan]

hey dude, remind me again why you think i'm scum? because i'm "going full offensive to deflect as much as possible", right? do you think that's what scum do? explain your thinking here

[petapan]

nero is back to fucking howling, huh

[petapan]

I don't want to think about the neighbors right now.

Dwlee - if you're ignoring the neighbors, give a few specific players you're looking to push.

My current vote preference:
1) peta
2) kyo
3) anya
4) one of the lurkers

Town reads/leans:
- DGB
- T3
- Nom

Confused by:
Nero

One of the lurkers I think is our best bet. There are enough of them that I wouldn't be surprised if most of the game has just been town yelling at each other.

can you get specific as to who you see as lurking, just curious

[petapan]

Save The Dragons -more active but kind of lurkingish
Derek12
Andresvmb
Dunnstral

Okay on second thought maybe there aren't quite enough of them but if we buy Nero's "titus is active lurking" claim then there are a lot of them.

i don't really buy the claim titus is active lurking, he accused me of fucking active lurking and i have the second most posts in the game, he slaps that tag on anyone who doesn't live in the thread like he does

derek12 effectively flaked, there's a chance that slot could be scum but it's basically =rand imo

andres i wanna give time, i know he hasn't been active this game but he's a good player as town from what i've seen and he's been busy enough that i'd rather cut him slack and give him a chance to get involved in the game, i believe him saying he's been busy. in fact nero going after him for lurking is bothersome when he saw andres be lurky as town for a significant part of the last large normal

save the dragons is imo gut town - i get why you think he's scummy but imo he's been playing in a way where he's not really concerned with looking town and his votes and reads shift in a way that feels at least decently organic and not dictated by the thread flow

dunn yeah i would absolutely kill

[petapan]

@dragon of the west

hey dude, remind me again why you think i'm scum? because i'm "going full offensive to deflect as much as possible", right? do you think that's what scum do? explain your thinking here

[petapan]

VOTE: nero

[petapan]

i didn't expect there would be any possible momentum there but i am absolutely fine making this the 1v1 for today

[petapan]

-putting aside the idea of whether or not i was being irrational (i don't agree), to you, rational = town and irrational = scum?
-considering i've spent most of the day as a leading wagon, do you think "playing defense through offense" is a strategy that makes literally any sense? further, why can't i just be town whose style is to aggressively push people?
-okay, what takes? how am i being reactive? if anything i've been trying to patiently look through the other people in the gamei just have to deal with constantly getting hit with bullshit by certain people in this game
-what interactions with other people, lmao? anya/kyouko? how iare you seeing bad interactions there?

[petapan]

Nero claiming I'm lurking while I am vla leaves a sour taste in my mouth

this is what he does, it's so ridiculously dishonest

[petapan]

anyway, the answer is only ever going to boil down to "i've played with dgb before and the things you are claiming are strange amount to playstyle quirks rather than anything alignment indicative". that's unlikely to satisfy you and i absolutely do not give a fuck


on a skim of the noughts and crosses game i actually think save the dragons is qualitatively different here than he was in that game, BUT that is an unusual setup and not nearly as familiar with him based on a small sample so i wouldn't strongly base my read of him off that. do think he's playing the game in a towny way

he just flipped town in a previous game of ours and he was most definitely playing _very_ differently

is it a leap to assume he was town in noughts and crosses?

no, he was scum in that game which is why dwlee was voting him.

i assue you're talking about 2205? what do you see about him here that you think is different?

[petapan]

actually on looking on it myself that's an incredibly dumb question as the difference is fairly obvious. let's skip that question and go to the next step: do you think his difference in play means something in terms of his alignment?

[petapan]

304 - this seemed disingenuous. you had to have known most of the votes you were referring to weren't of substance

really? how am i supposed to know that? a lot of the votes were earlygame sheepvotes, how am i to judge substance there

312 - It really seems like your argument here was predicated on the idea that Dwlee must be scum because he made an 'easy' argument...which is just a weird jump to me. or you're thinking that the DGB vs Dwlee convo had to be TvS? which again I don't like that assumption

i don't think it's a jump at all that scum often like to argue from a place of "correct" logic because it gives them a sort of high ground. but we are talking about a gutread i formed off page 1 here

Your interactions with kyo and posts where you've mentioned them have just seemed strange to me. like it hasn't seemed to me like either of you put your heart into it. especially for someone you've said you're unsure of. I would've expected a lot more inquisitiveness from you, based on how you've been pushing other players:
316,486,619,647

kyouko barely posts dude. i can try to pry content out of him but if he's not going to play ball i can't do a whole hell of a lot. i don't see how i'm worse in that regard than virtually anyone else in the game. in fact i've been more aggressive than most in trying to force him to say more, although i don't think that's a towntell for me

648 - you asked me specifically about any reads I had because I was focusing on you too much so I gave you 639. the only thing you responded to my read list with was your response to my scum read of you.

i didn't find your other reads worth commenting on. they were

fine

and even believable but not all that developed and didn't give me very much to go off

753 - can you explain your reads on why anya is scummier than kyouko. You've said it a couple times but I haven't seen you say why

because kyouko, lately, has had a trickle of reasoning and i don't think scum comes out trying to force a scumread on you, where anya has largely fallen off the map after the early game and has only emerged to sheep kyouko

840 - you don't find it strange that something in the pt magically happened and the anya/kyo thing evaporated?

i really don't know and it's hard to gauge with both saying so little. i think it'd be incredibly sloppy play as scum theater because neither has been active enough to earn any trust. is it possible one is scum pocketing the other? i guess. is it an immediate red flag alarm bell for me above all else? not really. i'll keep poking at them when i have opportunities because certainly neither is in the group of townreads i would actively defend

also, you gave me a hard time for focusing on you so much. and then are like "wait a sec, focus on me again and re-explain your read on me" which I don't know if it's totally scummy, but man it's annoying

see, the reason i asked you about this is because i wanted you to flesh out your read on me, because i still don't really have a handle on you, and this seemed to be the best way to do it. i did hope you'd broaden your view of the game but it hasn't happened in a way that helped me read you better, so this was my alternative.

and the thing is, for someone who has been almost singularly obsessed with me this game, to the point it feels like you have a closet shrine filled with pictures of me, your explanation for your scumread on me is some serious weak tea. it doesn't

feel

like i should be your strongest scumread, based on the words you are putting out here. like, i asked you to back up what you're saying and a lot of what you're pulling has you admitting it's not that strong a point, and yet apparently you still think i'm the scummiest person in the game. what's the deal with that?

[petapan]

i apologize for that awfully formatted quotestripe wall that will make everyone's eyes bleed but i saw no other option

[petapan]

There's at least one scum on my wagon (Titus) so unless you think she's bussing me then I'm town. Nom and Peta are some shade of bad/scummy. There's a risk when you call people scum and that's that they vote you and its not entirely impossible that peta/nom are just sore that I've not liked their posts and think they are scummy.

oh please don't pull the "woe is me" victim act when you're constantly trying to twist people's words against them or make underhanded arguments with regard to lurking

like look at this shit:

I feel like there's some scum motivation in trying to make this game stagnant and I think it's likely scum are posting less on purpose. And I think that peta sitting on a dead wagon would certainly help with a game being stagnant and I particularly hated 829.

I felt like his reaction was scummy b/c it's hypocritical to me to argue that the wagons are dead and he didn't know where to vote but failed to join the ssbm wagon and the emerging DOTW wagon. Yes, he finally gave some reasoning but I'm not sure why he reacted so violently at first.

It also seems odd that he had no problem vanity voting Anya but when the ssbm wagon was a think he claims he was hesitant.

Perhaps this is nooby arrogance and he can't handle any criticism at all.

855 is likely a scum post since its sheeping Rathe's reasoning (not that Rathe said he suspects me for it but nom thinks rathe will prob vote me)

[post=nom]nom[/post]

Q: why haven't you moved your vote to anothe wagon?

A: because I haven't felt as good about the other wagons, although i would compromise on them if necessary

normal, sane person logic: oh, i see, that makes sense

nero cain logic: oh my god u r scumz keeping the game dead by not starting wagons!

it's impossible for me to think anyone could legitimately believe this, instead it just reads like someone who wants to ring me up on some idiotic gotcha about how not moving my vote makes me scum. at a very basic level i think most people get that not everyone uses their vote the same way, and that's not an indicator of alignment. but nero doesn't care about that, he's not interested in my actual perspective, he just wants an excuse to attack me for not dancing to a set of conditions he's made up on the spot. it's the same shit with everyone he's attacked this game

[petapan]

and i'm not the only one who is accusing nero of flagrantly misrepping their arguments, at some point when multiple people are saying there's smoke there's a pretty damn good chance there's a fire

[petapan]

Anya I've been convinced, throw DGB on the pile of people I'm willing to lim.

woof

[petapan]

Peta, I'm convinced that if I told you my favorite Wawa smoothie you'd think it was scum-indicative.

honestly you were doing better but that post was gross, like you were looking to springboard off someone else's read into being able to vote dgb. not gonna be voting you anytime soon but was not about to let that pass without comment

[petapan]

really? how am i supposed to know that? a lot of the votes were earlygame sheepvotes, how am i to judge substance there

lmfao by paying attention to the game

okay which of these was i supposed to assume was not a serious agreement with my read

VOTE: Dwlee99

I like DGB's plan. It prevents scum from fake claiming roles later on as the targets wouldn't match. This should only be done until a person is forced to claim. I would modify it though to claim multiple targets so scum can't deduce who is possibly doctor protected. It limits some ability to solve and catch fake claims but it will keep our PRs alive.

For instance if there's an obvtown/IC and everyone crumbs them as one of their options, scum will infer that person was protected. Then if scum shoot a cop, we can ignore all their obvtown crumbs and get their results anyway.

VOTE: Dwelee

anyway

VOTE: dwlee99

i side with peta on the great peta/dwlee battle of the ages keeping my vote on the potential buccaneer

[petapan]

lol do you even read the garbage you write

this is not a "woe is me" this is the Mith honest truth. It's only you and nom whining and crying that I'm twisting your words and I haven't. I just felt like you were very active at the beginning of the game and then when you started getting wagon I felt you were less active. And Titus I accused of active lurking BEFORE she went v/la but its not like you give a shit about the actual evidence.

your "actual evidence" is that everyone who doesn't shit up the thread 24/7 like a fucking goon is lurking, it's idiotic and no one in their right mind would believe it

just for the record, I don't think you ever said the bold. Being shit with ones vote can be scum indicative and is a form of anti-spew. Like you were sitting on a dead wagon and it looks/ed like scum that didn't want to throw thier vote around in fear that people might town read or think that those you voted were less likely to be your buddy. Its pretty normal logic. I think you are the one being maniplutive it this situation especially when you are trying to make yourself look better than you really were.

motherfucker how does that apply more to me over almost anyone else in the game (it doesn't) and it's because you're scum trying to apply a complete horseshit tell and have zero concern for any actual reasoning, you just wanted to make cheap attacks on me for not moving my vote

[petapan]

it is obnoxious how bad and dishonest all your arguments can be but if you spam enough bullshit people just decide you're town apparently

[petapan]

of course this is the wagon that takes off after days of total stagnation

[petapan]

selfvoting is null but if you go by everything prior to that, doubt nom flips scum

[petapan]

sadly though still pretty sure vfp is town and wouldn't be this bullheaded as scum when there's no benefit

this game sucks

[petapan]

Come on Peta, make a stand!

my stand is i don't think either of you are scum sorry dude

[petapan]

Come on Peta, make a stand!

my stand is i don't think either of you are scum sorry dude

Well one of us is scum.

why, because you got into an argument?

[petapan]

was gonna post something mean here but don't want to make this game worse so i'll just say nah i'm good

[petapan]

Hey peta, what are the odds that VFP is doing a textbook day 1 bus?

would seem to be wildly unnecessary

[petapan]

dgb's approach to this 1v1 has been gross

[petapan]

I feel like people are just stuck in their reads. I think it's clear as fucking day that im town and peta is too childish and petty to unvote. IG it's possible that Rathe could scum that's just sitting on me.

am i petty or scum, pick one

[petapan]

990
To be honest, I think part of my read on you being strongest is the fact that you've produced so much more content than my other scum reads. You've just had a higher number of scummy posts...by nature of having more posts. Day 1 reads are tough, especially since so many people have been pretty inactive

bullshit answer dude

[petapan]

if i were vig i'd vig dunn
if i were an investigative i'd target dragon of the west
if i were a protective i target andres i don't know i hate everyone in this game

[petapan]

i'd lim T3 here

he's probably town but i'd do it on pure policy


VOTE: VFP

no longer buying the bluster


would also lolflashwagon dunn still


but also i hate this game

[petapan]

it's a bizarre move too because dgb prior to that had been all about saying nom is town and defending him hard, but suddenly because of vfp's tunnel he could be scum who is being bussed. i don't see why that would be the assumption anyone goes to rather than vfp being scum pushing a townie

[petapan]

dwlee beat me to the punch in pedit but i posted it anyway

[petapan]

it's not the fact that he's 1v1ing but the level of confidence he's projecting atp

[petapan]

it looks way more like attempting to grease the wheels for making a nom vote acceptable, like why is the scenario of vfp being scum doing a shitpush on nom not considered

[petapan]

i rly thought it once he voted u nomnom reacted townie peta reacted like mafia

854 compared to 895 n 896

lol ok dude

[petapan]

oh fuck, it's one of these days huh? i get off work and there's 20 pages

Yes, and they're deplorably devoid of signs of intelligence, just have a nightcap and hit the sack.

same shit different day

what else is new?

some people replaced out and we're at 3 days to deadline and can barely get a wagon going

[petapan]

nomnomnom (3) : VFP - T3 - ssbm_Kyouko
Nero Cain (3) : Rathe - Titus - DrippingGoofball
Titus (3) : Anya - Save The Dragons - Nero Cain
VFP (2) : nomnomnom - Petapan
Rathe (1) : Osuka
Petapan (1) : Dragon of the West
Dwlee99 (1) : Derek12
Osuka (1) : Andresvmb
DrippingGoofball (1) : Dwlee99


Not voting (1) : - Dunnstral

*sigh*

VOTE: Titus

i'm voting this for the sake of a wagon existing

[petapan]

i'd lim T3 here

???????????????

i don't understand the town reads he hasn't really done anything other than call people town as far as i remember

you and i both know t3 just doesn't do shit, ever, probably regardless of alignment

didn't he flip town twice in a row after doing that?

i think as scum he tries to force shitty reads and votes opportunistically and he's not doing that here so there's a sense it's probably genuine even if he's less useful than not_mafia

[petapan]

i believe titus's claim, but that doesn't make it an inherently townsided role, but also feel kind of terrible about the vote a little while after making it

[petapan]

Titus (4) : Anya - Save The Dragons - Nero Cain - petapan
nomnomnom (3) : VFP - T3 - ssbm_Kyouko
Nero Cain (3) : Rathe - Titus - DrippingGoofball
VFP (2) : nomnomnom
Rathe (1) : Osuka
Petapan (1) : Dragon of the West
Dwlee99 (1) : Derek12
Osuka (1) : Andresvmb
DrippingGoofball (1) : Dwlee99


Not voting (1) : - Dunnstral


i took this from nero's unofficial VC in 1376

i'd swap to a lot of people but we need to get some kind of wagon going

[petapan]

vfp should be at 1 there

[petapan]

majority hammer in large games is really kind of ass

[petapan]

majority hammer in large games is really kind of ass

as opposed to?

plurality but it's not really the time and place for that

just getting 9 people to place votes on someone in this game is going to be a huge pain in the ass b/c theres a handful of active people and everyone else getting flooded out

[petapan]

case in point, osuka: you're on the rathe wagon which is dead as fuck and as far as i can tell the case on him is "not that towny"?

[petapan]

if the Titus wagon dies b/c "OMG PR claim" who else would u lynch, peta?

like half the game lol

i don't

trust

you but you're actually posting and that suddenly feels like a terrible idea, so, like, dunn, vfp, dotw, osuka, anya??, rathe i guess?? dgb i trust less because of the reaction around the whole vfp/nom thing but idk

this is a broad list but i'm trying to be pragmatic

[petapan]

chaosomega hasn't posted a single time since subbing in, not even a "hi guys how's it going" post

granted it's the first time he's been active on the site in 4 years but it's still very ???

[petapan]

VOTE: dunnstral

fuck letting him get away with what he's doing

[petapan]

people i don't really want to kill today if possible:
vax
STD
T3
dwlee (shockingly)

[petapan]

every wagon that crops up i hate more than the last

i was going to say i don't like the relative ease of votes on chaos for being essentially absent, but then i looked back, and his entrance to the game feels beetlejuicey? replaces in, no content, when attention starts shifting to him he finally makes a post

ugh

[petapan]

VOTE: dunnstral

fuck letting him get away with what he's doing

It makes me feel dirty that I might end up on this wagon you're startIng but also voting Dunn is more out of principle

if ur town u absolutely need to get over urself

[petapan]

VOTE: chaosomega

nah you know what i reread and changed my mind

[petapan]

i am talking specifically wrt his tunnel on me

[petapan]

VOTE: titus

[petapan]

back to thinkign the votes on chaos re too easy relative to the enormous resistance to dunn (titus wagon is bigger so went there)


and yes t3 vote is not happening

[petapan]

VOTE: dunn

[petapan]

with 2 and a half days we basically need to rally just to make something happen at all

[petapan]

why did they kill nero lol

either because he was right or because he was loud but it's still a lolzy kill

[petapan]

i regret a lot of things about my approach day 1 but ultimately we killed a VT who wasn't playing the game and that is an overall very decent outcome for day 1


VOTE: VFP

[petapan]

VOTE: petapan

do go on

[petapan]

VOTE: T3

The progression from 1583 to 1612/1614/1615 reads as forced. You scumread me for my point about Dunn, but don't know enough about his posting history to be shocked about it and vote him to push the wagon across the line. With the later posts as context, 1583 reads more like scum jumping on my wagon than town trying to sort me and making a read.

---

Titus, any response to 1587? I'm more interested in the 2nd part.

VOTE: T3

[petapan]

Bolded the part that proves my point.

What does it prove?
This isn't about being tactical, this is saying that scum you did consider unvoting with the assumption you wouldn't be here to post.
You're making a strange narrowing here, and to say that this is all Nero did is even stranger.

Also, these T3 votes are trash.

shut up idiot

[petapan]

i don't think nero is a kill titus would never make but i just want to see more from her today instead of jumping to a conclusion

[petapan]

so my perspective right now is that i came into day 1 way too hot and wound up getting into a big TvT with nero that wound up being a huge waste of time and just completely suffocated the game. clearly, i need to take a step back, refocus, and completely change my approach. from my position i know it's likely there were scum taking advantage of our bickering and i'm gonna read back with that in mind. i also want to give the game space to breathe because a lot of people just really haven't said all that much (the pace of the game likely did not help with this) and i'd like to be able to actually get a read on townie lurker vs scummy lurker

[petapan]

what r u seeing from osuka

this lol

[petapan]

correct about what lol - being right on nero town aint enough for a townread

my actual memory of osuka is he comes in every couple of days, quotes a bunch of random posts and replies with commentary while insulting everyone and then vanishes

he's done a minimum of what could be considered actual solving at this point

[petapan]

i will remind you that he was not scumreading me at EOD, i was coming around on him if not fully townreading him, and the only reason i could think i'd ever make that kill is if i were teamed with titus, but if him and titus were TvT it would be in my best interest to keep that going

[petapan]

There’s a really Scummy exchange between DW and DGB actually between 870 and 874. Can somebody tell me their thoughts on it?

I don't like Dwelee passing off responsibility. I don't mind DGB voting anya because anya hasn't done anything since outing the hood.

VOTE: Kyoto

your last mention of ykyouko was "null" because they haven't done anything and now you're okay voting them because...?

[petapan]

is that all you're gonna bring to the table here, titus

arbitrarily voting someone as a counterwagon to your townread on day 2

[petapan]

DGB + DotW + Titus all just insisting they are a town block gives me the heeby jeebies.

i don't think they all act this way as scum, shrug. i think andres is way overdoing it with the assuming dotw is scum for his hard defense of dgb, way more likely to be a tmi townread on someone he's buddying because they called him town

he is right that 1317 sucks really bad though

[petapan]

how's he worse relative to titus, someone you're townreading? she dropped a few lines and complained she has nothing to say because too many people are lurking

[petapan]

do u rly think scum plays that way

[petapan]

This reeks of scum not being able to infiltrate the townblock so they just call us all scum and pray we turn on each other.

its like every ridiculous take in this game needs to be met with an equally ridiculous counter-take

[petapan]

I'm frustrated that my scumreads are just going "no actually we are all town." Nero could be dead for the WIFOM or because he was also pushing the exact three players. If Dragon has an inno on you though so be it I guess, I just hope he got a "town" pm and not a "doesn't have a gun."

probably best to just leave it be for now and not keep pressing, turn your attention elsewhere

i have issues with titus but will get into them later

[petapan]

i will resist the urge to preemptively smack you down and ask why him

[petapan]

There's a lot of people doing nothing yet we're focusing on the active players. This might be another scum coast game.

do you consider yourself active

[petapan]

Can someone catch me up?

titus claimed babysitter enabler, chaosomega claimed vt, kyouko and anya are neighbors. there you're caught up

[petapan]

VOTE: STD

STD is always scummy, you need to meet a higher burden of proof.

more or less agree with this but also think he's been towny in how he's approached the game thread

[petapan]

fuck this game

[petapan]

if people are just gonna give nake votes and tossed off one liners what's the point

[petapan]

there was a post i thought was town indicative from t3 but on a reread, nah, too much sketch

At this point my only big srs and kyo and peta.
pedit: scumslip???!?! VOTE: anya

this in particular reads exceedingly fake

[petapan]

if people are just gonna give nake votes and tossed off one liners what's the point

Don’t worry there’s definitely worse play that could be happening. Trust me on that.

i know what you mean but still

idk man can we go over reads when you're caught up so this game maybe makes me not want to kms

[petapan]

VOTE: kyo
Can't say why because of ongoing games but that plus the reasons said above.

this ftr was the post i thought was town indicative (if super gross), but otherwise really don't care for him on a reread

[petapan]

yes i'm aware thanks

in theory him basing a read off that would be towny as it's showing an actual thought process using info from another game but it's not that hard to fake and like i said his other stuff is contrived

[petapan]

The argument is basically scum T3 for being T3 at this point.

great no one cares go back in your hole

I think anya, Kyo, and peta are town and so I don't think I see a single vote on scum in T3's ISO

He did flip between rathe -> nom -> chaos within the span of 4 posts at one point so maybe he hit scum in there? I want to see more from him and he kinda came into the end of day one without acknowledging Nero was going to hammer once he voted.

tbh him not voting scum would be the closest thing to a towntell for him

[petapan]

VOTE: anya

I dont really need an answer, as I already have it.

anya!town doesnt say "they're trying to convince me now that they're a wolf and i should vote for them"

It comes off as knowing ssmb_kyko cant be a wolf. (trying to CONVINCE)

anya!town WOULD SAY "ssmb keeps saying they are a wolf."

have u seen anya in a game before

[petapan]

VFP just tried to quickhammer lmfao

VOTE: VFP

[petapan]

From the hood I like Anya as town.
Plausible both town, I don't think a lim there any time soon is needed as it's never S/S.

last reference VFP made to anya