Large Normal 238 | Weiqi, Baduk, Go | Endgame

[skitter30]

Hello all!
VOTE: dats

Nice to meet all the new players i havent played with before!

regular vla on fridays and saturdays

+ lowkey lower activity until monday

Ari i need to share that i was reading a fanfic last night and a minor throwaway character had the same name as you and i realized i was mispronouncing your name all this time

[skitter30]

My account name of “maozedong” was not accepted by the mods, so they told me to change the name of my account.

Sounds a little far fetched!

What are you implying / was your initial vote serious?

[skitter30]

I may have? I've played with around a eight people in this pl i would say

[skitter30]

Ah, yeah I will have to do that at some point. I’m currently on my phone in bed but I will do that the next time I get to a computer (will probably be tomorrow evening after work).

I'm not joking! I think your slot is a scum power role who is required to be present or the game risks becoming mechanically unfair to the scum team.

That's not really how games work on this forum - i.e. a mod would not delay a game for that reason

But i kinda think this is +town and am getting good vibes from yeet as well

[skitter30]

You may have what, skitter30?

I think i was in a newbie with generalwu but i'm not positive, i'll check later

[skitter30]

:)

[skitter30]

Yeet is talking about depressing non-game related topics and is townreading me despite doing nothing but instantly shading their slot unironically at start of game.

What? How are they depressing non-game topics and do you object to me/dats saying your entrance was +town and why is shading their slow unironically scummy (and i'm not sure they were even shading their slot either ...)

~

not sure i like 42

[skitter30]

VOTE: frogsterking for making the first thread of serious conversation in this game be a really dumb one

42 fireisred trying to shut down scumhunting during start of day noted

getting people engaged in talking about thr game delay and who may be scum as a result of it is directly counterproductive to scumhunting bc it's dumb and is not going to result in anything useful

cmv

I mean while their approach is wrong, they did immediately give us something to talk abt and thus got the game moving, i dont think thats counterprodictive to scumhunting at all

~

I'm not really sure why people are disliking dats thus far, he's been largely nai to me

[skitter30]

VOTE: tenebro

yeet may or may not be town, tenebro probably isn't

Because?

[skitter30]

After readinf 71 multiple times, i actually dont think i got any clarity from it >.>

Why is it more believeable that me/dats would townbin you than for yeet to do the same thing?

~

Nai = non alignment indicative

In other words i'm saying what dats has done thus far is neither townie nor scummy for him

[skitter30]

I'm not really sure why people are disliking dats thus far, he's been largely nai to me

This feels like shutting down the scum-Datisi train of possibility without actually being interested in it.

No, its me saying that nothing he's done so far has pinged me, posts like 39 i think he'd make as either alignment

[skitter30]

If Datisi is scum then I’m not sure what to make of skitter30’s reaction.

You bring up a good point that she doesn’t even seem interested in Datisi’s alignment or why we are all pushing. I don’t think she says that about a partner so early. The plausible world to me is that if Datisi is town then skitter30 is scum whiteknighting Datisi.

Ah, that makes sense. I still think your posting was somewhat provocative so I think it's totally expected that Yeet would be concerned by it. Was that what you expected also?

yes and no. i'm used to there being meme wagons on me early game, especially from people that don't really know me. there are different things that i expect from town/scum pushing me though, which i will elaborate on in:

re skitt's 70 - yeet was the first to attack me, they're stubborn, and not really responding to my questioning. i find that behaviour comes from either bold-scum or town who either loves reaction testing or is REALLY sure in their page 2 reads. idk who yeet is, so i can't definitely say if they're likely to be bold as scum.

tenebro on the other hand walked in, saw that i'm getting pressure, dropped a vote on me based on weak reasoning, and left. it feels much more likely to be a scum approach, lack of boldness (don't wanna stand out) and weak reasoning (scum wants to appear how they're thinking through the game, have a nice thought process, etc)

not reading the million pedits

Ugh its not letting me select-and-quote the bit that i want to

But r.e. tenebro - you only had the one vote from yeet at the time, and arguably frog was under more pressure from yeet just then, so i'm not sure i buy the 'scum plying votes on you to fit in and find an easy place to stick a vote' train of thought

The initial vote seemed fine/nai to me

[skitter30]

It's probably worth noting that I expect Skitter and Datisi have probably played with each other multiple times before and so I imagine Skitter thinks themselves able to read Datisi to greater degree of accuracy than other players in this game can read Datisi, which may explain their posting re: Datisi.

Yes, basically

[skitter30]

But r.e. tenebro - you only had the one vote from yeet at the time, and arguably frog was under more pressure from yeet just then, so i'm not sure i buy the 'scum plying votes on you to fit in and find an easy place to stick a vote' train of thought

/shrug

i think votes are what speaks volume more than words and he's been consistently calling me scum, wasn't he calling frogs town? or did i make that up

Ok but it was like a p3 vote and his reasoning was fine give that we were like on p3 imo, so i'm not sure why you're ascribing scum motivation to it and not just viewing it as a 'town voting the first thing that pinged them outside of rvs' sort of vote

[skitter30]

Frogsterking is confirmed town to me. I will not accept any vote on Frogsterking.

On the other hand, Datisi is most likely scum this game.

yeah idk how you think this means frogs was under more pressure from yeet than i was @skitt

Oh i got the timeline mixed up. Never mind on this bit then

[skitter30]

I don’t believe that you would say that you’re not sure why people think Datisi is scum when you know exactly how he plays and believe this to be his town self.

You are assuming that we know him implicitly there. We do not know Datisi, so why would you expect us to have the same opinion on him with your knowledge?

You would’ve simply said that Datisi’s posts are “NAI”, without the part where you’re “not sure why people dislike him”.

It doesn’t make sense, it’s not a real read, and your approach to this whole thing feels like it’s not coming from a genuine solving headspace - rather it was feeble attempt to provide content and you felt the urge to white knight him.

- i didnt say i believe this to be his town self, why do you think i thought that?
- i said that i thought his behavior up till that point was nai (note that i now dont love his tenebro vote tho), and that the reasoning people were giving for him being scummy i found unconvincing
- i am not assuming you know him. I'm saying that *i* know him and i'm sharing what i know/believe/feel abt his play to you guys

[skitter30]

VOTE: fireisredsir

[skitter30]

I don't think skitter is scummy for saying what she did about Datisi.
It sounds pretty normal to me. While not everyone here is completely familiar with Datisi's playstyle, I don't think it's scummy for skitter to suggest that Datisi's posts are NAI.

The point was not that she suggested his posts are NAI - that is what I expect town skitter to do. And I’m sure she knew that part, regardless of what her alignment is. The point is that she started it with disbelief that he was getting pressure from players who don’t know him, knowing full well that she is using her experience with Datisi to sort him.

She saw an opportunity to make a read (fake content) that she would as town and slipped up in how she presented it.

'I'm not sure why X' to express disagreement is a very very common phrasing convention for me

I was basically saying that i disagree with the reasonings given for scumreading him at that point

[skitter30]

Okay so in 71 I'm saying I would often consider anyone approaching me the way you did like "hey me and this other person think you're +town" to be a scumtell and reject the read. The way you asked me just now in 52 seems so believable I'm not scumreading you for it AND still I'm too cynical of being pocketed to even give you a potential town lean for it.

I just noticed in 52 you also asked why Yeet is unironically scummy for townreading me despite my only actions being to shade Yeet. I don't know how to answer that other than that I don't think it's a very believable/common reaction from a townie for Yeet to play like that?

I dont really understand any of this either ...

[skitter30]

it feels more like scum trying to fulfill their "solving quota" than town genuinely feeling the game if that makes sense

also like, i'll let you in on a little secret: i was not as sure on this read as i gave the impression of being at the time... the responses haven't been Good though imho

No, it doesnt, ans i dont think your original vote was really based on anything, and that you're now trying to justify it after the fact

[skitter30]

VOTE: fireisredsir

thanks but why

I didnt like the tenebro vore in 119

VOTE: fireisredsir

why? what happened to disliking my tenebro vote?

I actually forgot that i started off voting you >.>
I think i'm going to put it back now!

VOTE: dats

[skitter30]

skitter, what did you think of 123? I thought it seemed a bit sassy to come from scum. The shade thrown gave me a very... relaxed impression?

I dont have ai thoughts on it

[skitter30]

To be clear:
“I’m not sure why people dislike Datisi” equates to “I disagree with the reasons others have presented for disliking Datisi?”

Yes, apologies if i phrased things poorly

[skitter30]

ok? does that make me scum? if no, why are we having this conversation? if yes, why aren't you voting me?

I think you made a bad initial vote and that you're trying to justify it under pressure but cant. And i now am!

[skitter30]

Also hello ari!!!!

I have to bounce now!

Thus far i have good vibes from: yeet, and to a lesser extent deas

Bad vibes from: dats, fire

Huh as i started writing out this list i thought i would have more people to add to either side but it turns out i dont

[skitter30]

Also i kinda like wu, forgot to say that

Pedit @dats me questioning you abt your vote. The more i ask you abt it the more i feel like there was no initial reasoning and you're trying ti back-justify it

And my issue is that you presented it as a scumread and the reasoning you gave was somewhat empty

And now you're saying it was more of a reaction vote? Why is my reaction scummy?

Pedit2 @tenebro that's just kinda their dynamic, and its nai, they did the same (as tvt) in the recentky concluded 'bunnies' mini normal

Ok really gotta go now, later!

[skitter30]

going to move Cape90 into my townlist because 215 is too adorable

Agreed on cape, and also hate monkey's half of their interaction with u

@tenebro that's just kinda their dynamic, and its nai, they did the same (as tvt) in the recentky concluded 'bunnies' mini normal

This may be true. I don't plan to completely ignore your experience, but I also am unsure whether I want to let this sort of argument bias how I read players in this game. I think each game can have a unique shape. I am also wary of allowing experienced players to get a leg up by saying this sort of thing, given that I do not plan to fact check any such claims. Players like myself and Yeet do not have this option available. Am I doing us a disservice if I do not question such arguments?

This is fair, i was more just sharing my recent experience thay i thought might shed some light on the dynamic. Its also easily verifiable since i think there's a 5 (?) player overlap between that game and this one

[skitter30]

VOTE: Tenebro

Still not really sure i get the scumreads on them tbh

[skitter30]

I scumread Tenebro hard based on 116 and the attempt to defuse suspicion by essentially saying it’s just a bandwagon, and thus my TR on Yeet gets stronger by association.

Yeet seems trustworthy and makes a good point. But I think I'll stick with my vote for now.

Maybe i'm not understanding but how is this 'trying to defuse suspicion by essentially saying its a bandwagon'
I believe tenebro was voting dats at the time, and saying he agreed with yeet's suspicion of me and that it might be +town for dats, but that he was sus of dats anyways.

Where's the 'defusing suspicion' or 'bandwagoning' bits?

[skitter30]

“I’m so popular, everyone is looking at me” is basically a degradation of the reason to actually suspect you and dismisses it as a trend rather than a veritable case.

Maybe you meant 130
Idk i'm having a hard time aligning your reasons for scumreading tene with thigns he's actually done ...

[skitter30]

I don't get the town reads on Wu. I'm seeing lots of fluff posting and active lurking.

He has good vibes. Agree with u on monkey

~

Yeah i guess he was talking abt 130 but either way i dont find 116 or 130 problematic, and don't understand why fua is scumreading him

[skitter30]

I'm not gonna get defenestrated this early anyway :O

is that a challenge

did the rest of your post get cut off or something?

dearest me, ive forgotten my interrobang!

?!

[skitter30]

i like the directions that fua and nero are looking so far, but after some research wu looks exaaaactly like he did in newbie 2073 so im less interested in that for now. tene and monkey i am more on board with

I disagree. In that game Wu gets to the meat of things quicker and posts more game-related content involving his thoughts and his reads. Compare that ISO to this one and the latter looks a lot more bare in comparison. Here he makes one tentative statement on an interaction and then when he gets suspected his rebuttal is to accuse Nero of slipping by asking him how he knows how many mafia there are. Maybe it’s something something timeframe but to me these two don’t match up.

I've played one game with him and iirc he got misflipped day1 for similar-ish behavior

[skitter30]

Pedit @dats me questioning you abt your vote. The more i ask you abt it the more i feel like there was no initial reasoning and you're trying ti back-justify it

And my issue is that you presented it as a scumread and the reasoning you gave was somewhat empty

And now you're saying it was more of a reaction vote? Why is my reaction scummy?

do you expect there to be some super strong case / reasoning from me on page 2-4, whatever it is? (when i'm not playing with ico, that is :shifty: ) like, A Thing from tenebro pinged me, i decided to vote him for it, both to show that i got bad pings from his slot, and to see if any interesting things happen as a result from it. i do this *checks notes* all the fucking time as both alignments. which is something that you should know, and the fact that you're giving me shit for having an "empty" vote early on is, like, not a good look.

like, what's your idea here? that scum!me panicked, made a random vote that i had no idea how to justify because i thought i wouldn't get asked about it?? then when, surprise, did get asked about it, i only then started thinking about a justification?? like you know better than this...

VOTE: tenebro

yeet may or may not be town, tenebro probably isn't

A few notes:

- this in some ways reads like an OmGUS-y reaction to them voting you a few posts prior
- i still disagree with you that his vote was indicative of a 'scummy lack of boldness' and not wanting to stand out when you hadnt had much pressure at the time
- i obviously do not expect a super strong case on p4, and i would habe been fine if you had just said it was A Ping, but the reasoning you're giving doesnt make sense to me as something you actually thought at the time
- you seem to be getting kinda testy / sensitive that i'm pursuing this line of questioning ...

[skitter30]

if i didn't know who monkey was, i'd scumread the shit out of that slot -

but unless he has massively fallen out of shape, i'm just puzzled at his play here

Can u elaborate plz?

[skitter30]

I think we should consolidate on one of HEM/Tenebro to push pressure and advance game state rather than splitting

so which one would you like to do today dear?

Vastly prefer monkey

I'm leaning towards you/skitter being town/town but I'm not confident enough in my abilities to be anywhere near 100% on that read atp

Why's dats town

Also fwiw i think 375 is +town for ari
Not necessarily the focus on wagoning hem/tene in particular, but the mindset r.e. consolidating

[skitter30]

I am in the present, yay

I'm saying that it looked like a snap-reaction to a vote on him that he has no good reasoning for, yes

Pedit one sec >.>

[skitter30]

there's a person who jumps into the game, says one throwaway line on why i'm scummy and votes me, and the latter is more likely to be scum trying to fit in and attack a popular target, but also make it seem like there was Original Thought Process behind their attack"

Because i think you were overestimating how much of a target you were at the time, and how likely scum are to be trying to 'fit in' there by voting you, and i dont know why that universe was more likely than them being town and just not liking one of your posts

And yeah i think you getting this annoyed is more indicative of scum-you, see: recent open wherein you became conciliatory (i.e. vs testy) when you got scumread

[skitter30]

if i didn't know who monkey was, i'd scumread the shit out of that slot -

but unless he has massively fallen out of shape, i'm just puzzled at his play here

Can u elaborate plz?

i played a game where scum!monkey was really good

so i didn't think this is scum!him shitting the game when i'm aware he knows how to play scum

but (1) that game was like 2 years ago, (2) nero gave me a counterexample (that i did not read through tbf, but i'm assuming he wouldn't lie about it) so lol

Ok thanks, just acknowledging that i see rhis response, i dont have much to say abt it

[skitter30]

wait no i rember

I'm saying that it looked like a snap-reaction to a vote on him that he has no good reasoning for, yes

this is like, again, ignoring the basics of how i play scum and how much i plan things through and how much i value having an explainable thought process about my posts and votes and etc

so like the idea that i would snap vote someone because lol haha omgus and not have a reason read why i'm voting them and then go back later on to try to retcon it is like bonkers, and i don't believe skitter like, actually believes that's how i play lol

If this is a thing i'm supposed to know about your scumgame, i dont

Buuuut i am reminded of how i got annoyed at you in said open for scumreading me for what i felt was nonsense when i thought you really should have known better and i kept repeating that what you were accusing me of was not how *i* play scum

And am seeing some parallels to your reaction here

[skitter30]

I'm not sure if i expressed that well

But i guess i am saying i am willing to accede that i can see a universe where town-you gets annoyed at me for scumreading you when you think i ought to know better ...

[skitter30]

like OBVIOUSLY this isn't super strong but it's a start. and i see no reason why not to vote there and explore that start. like do you think i'm not aware that reasoning is not very strong??

You called him 'probably not town' for his vote on you, which to me seems like you had a p strong read on him ...

And also even if you believe in super clean trajectories, i'm not sure like scum-you would have had such a strong thought process behind your p3 vote that you probably did not expect would elicit much scrutiny or such a response ...

[skitter30]

Ari am i being tunneled >.>

[skitter30]

i understand the irony of yelling "i'm not upset!!" at being accused of being upset but like

this is not how i look like when i am upset >_>

How do you look like when you're being upset?

[skitter30]

Probably you and Yeet.

Ok, why?

[skitter30]

So Datisi makes no attempt to pressure my slot even though he admits it's scummy, and didn't attempt to parse even further when prompted by Nero. No hot takes and no solves, just unproductive questions thus far.
Ari frames her narrative that she "forced" her readslist and pretends it's the scummiest thing to notice that it's bullshit and OMGUSes me.

I don't see how these slots could be town.

I mean tbf you made like 5 posts and werent around while dats was

And ari did have a point in that you werent really thinking abt her readlist so much as just going 'why' without thinking abt any of the slots yourself

[skitter30]

And i'm not sure why either of those things are leading you to the conclusion that 'i dont see how either of those slots can be town'

[skitter30]

I am also leaving. I was about to go to sleep when I saw the day start and got excited. I have stayed past my bedtime for this and hope I don’t regret it.

From top to bottom:

Frog
fire
DeasVail
Aristeia
Save the Dragons

everyone else
Wu, skitter, tenebro
Cavernous sea of nothing
Datisi

You must be the best player that ever played this game. 10 reads on page 8? Are you serious?

Why is this the onky thing you found to comment on at this point and why do you think its unreasonable that he formed these reads given how he played the game to thay point ... ?

[skitter30]

VOTE: Eyes without a face

I’ll catch up on other stuff this afternoon

Just cuz of 491 or something else?

[skitter30]

here is my way too early vibe list:

good vibes:

yeet, frogster, fire, skitter, datisi, std

neutrali:

gwu, cape90, deasvail,

badvibes:

tenebro, monkey

OK.. so I take it that I'm the worst player then, because while everyone is discerning reads I have no concrete feelings so far (in page 9) that I don't think I'd vote or defend anyone if my life depended on it.[/quote]
it's a bullshit readslist that pinged me and it deserves more attention. what deserves even more attention is the way she OMGUSed me when I called her out on it.[/quote]

You calling it a bs readlist would have a bit more oomph if you had actually engaged with ari abt why you didnt like it when she asked imo

Pedit i woke up to 13 pages, i'm catching up >.>

[skitter30]

Skitter has replied to 3 people that have gotten some sort of attention to them.

Shouldn't you be looking at people who haven't?

And what does this mean even ... ?

[skitter30]

except he's the one who initiated the conversation and when I turned it around on him and accused him of not having reads and pushing me in bad faith and his response was "lol" and then he disappeared from the thread.

That's so malicious. You keep coming back to this argument like closing this game to live my life is the scummiest thing ever.

Fwiw i dont think the bit abt you 'ghosting' the thread has much merit, but i do think you basically refusing to engage around said readslist while objecting to it isnt great, and i dont think your resulting scumread of ari makes much sense

[skitter30]

Skitter has replied to 3 people that have gotten some sort of attention to them.

Shouldn't you be looking at people who haven't?

And what does this mean even ... ?

I just find it interesting that out of all the players in this game, you would choose to focus on three players who have gotten some sort of attention in this game.

I mean:
- i have a lot od content in the 20 pages i dont think you read
- yes when i'm catching up i'm going to focus on the people and things that are being talked abt, yes.
- i'm not really sure what you're objecting to or what you're trying to imply exactly

[skitter30]

Humaneatingmonkey is +town because I have never seen scum ask town to blanketly explain every single one of their 10+ reads off a casual readslist as their first entry into the game. I think it's easy to feel too self conscious as scum in that approach.

I think he has his own "method to his madness" so to speak (as we all do, to an extent).

No, this is a bad reason to townread people ...

~

Also i wanted to say: i like vpb's readlist, and i'm kinda townreading fire

[skitter30]

what about the read list made you question it? i feel like that is a simple question that is at the crux of this debate and you still haven't given an answer to it

that she felt confident enough to have reads that early and that didn't seem possible to me because nothing was alignment indicative at that point. that's why i asked her to explain her POV.

How are you readinf yeet?

[skitter30]

Specifically in that they had several reads at that point, and i believe shared a readlist prior to ari iirc

[skitter30]

I don't think that's an unreasonable argument for skitter to make fwiw. Something of that nature is much more likely to happen in pages 2-3 than it is to happen in pages 52-53.

Yeha this is what i was trying to say, but maybe i said it badly: scum-him can be very meticulous and planned and everything in general, but that doesnt mean an off-the-cuff vote from p3 has that same level of planning around it, as he probably didnt think it would get that much scrutiny in thr first place

[skitter30]

UNVOTE: Eyes without a face

I'm actually not liking his content through here, ehy'd you remove the vote?

[skitter30]

I want Yeet and Fire and Scorpious and Nordom dead

Why yeet and fire?

[skitter30]

Again, i'm catching up, and i'm talking abt the things that happened while i wasnt here, yes. To expect me to talk about thw people who arent here when i'm plainly still reading and dont know who they are is p silly

Also, i did talk abt wu, more than once actually ...

[skitter30]

Also i wouldnt call wu the game's populalar push of the game either, but if you think he is kinda doesnt make sense to accuse me of only talking abt popular players but ignoring him at the same time

[skitter30]

How am i supposed to know who isnt here if i'm still reading myself, and ehy should talking abt them be my priority?

[skitter30]

Again i talked abt him (i said i thouhht he was town and didnt want to flip him when nero was pushing that) so idk what your point is anyways

[skitter30]

I dont know what you're asking me, i'm sorry

Pedit @Nordom

[skitter30]

My point was, why would it matter to comment about people who weren't in the game to comment about them?

I think something got crossed

You seem to have an expectation that i should be focusing on the inactive players

I'm saying: how am i supposed to know who you consider inactive in the time i wasnt here if i havent read the pages yet to see who did or did not post during that time period

I can comment on whoever whether or not they'll see it, that isnt a problem
Does that make more sense? Otherwise i need you to reword your question because i dont understand what you're asking

[skitter30]

I want to TR VPB by playstyle but his takes aren't very good.

Which takes dont you like?

[skitter30]

I mean yes i'm going to talk abt people who are being talked abt, i dont really know what else to say abt this

[skitter30]

If Datisi's replies in a satisfactory manner, I'm switching my vote to VP.

Also why dont you like vp?

[skitter30]

A trick containing a trump is won by the hand playing the highest trump. A trick not containing a trump is won by the hand playing the highest card of the suit led. The winner of each trick leads next.

Wrong game >.>
~

Ok mostly caught up, thoughts of note:

- i still dont like how defensive dats is rn but i'm beginning to wonder if my dislike of his early vote is coloring everything else, excited to see what he says later
- i dont like hem's continued reasons for scumreading ari in that he's focusing solely on her to the detriment of forming other reads or having other interactions. Also to continue justifying his scumread on ari he's applying a standard to her that he isnt really applying to other people (he's objecting to ari's readlist because how could anyone have reads at that time, when multiple other people were forming large early readslists, like yeet for example)
- i like vpb, fire, ari, yeet, tenebro, possibly deasvail
- i additionally dislike fua, nero, eyes
- this thing with nordam is probably a miscommunication/having different priorities to sort people. I dont really get what he's asking but probably isnt scummy
- dont think wu has really done anything to justify the pushes/votes on him that we couldnt easily alply to like four other slots as well

Ok later!

[skitter30]

VPBaltar (the guy who I'm scumreading) made an effort to give reads on a wider scope of players after a read of the game.

Whatever. I don't want to get into this exhausting debate with you, skitter, about this shit. I'm officially letting it go.

Yes sorry i was trying to disengage too >.>

And ig for vob i did like his fua sr and i kinda liked that i agreed with a lot of his reads >.>

[skitter30]

By the way, I town-read Skitter.

If i can ask, why are you ending up with a townread of me? The impression that i got during our convo is that you were scumreading me

Also what did you mean abt the drink?

[skitter30]

By the way, I town-read Skitter.

If i can ask, why are you ending up with a townread of me? The impression that i got during our convo is that you were scumreading me

Also what did you mean abt the drink?

Why would you get the impression that I scum-read?

Because of the way you were calling it 'strange that i picked the 3 most talked abt people to talk abt'

[skitter30]

Going to the effort of "reading the game" (obviously not verifiable, but they at least pretended to) and then posting townreads on Nero and VP and then disappearing is also just a weird scum move. More likely imo that townreads on Nero and VP were just the most notable things to Eyes, who didn't think to say much else/got distracted/whatever. Scum probably thinks "well shit, I should probably talk about other people too"

Eh i guess i dont view this as a weird scum move or something particularly unlikely to come from scum

[skitter30]

VOTE: Nordom

R.e. this vote, i have to say that while i find nordam's posting to you distasteful, i'm not sure i can say i find him scummy

[skitter30]

- i additionally dislike fua, nero, eyes

Why Nero tho?

Dont like his pushes/trajectories, particularly on wu and yeet

[skitter30]

if you're scum, obviously you want me to townread you. but, you know that those tiny bits of my "things that town!vp does" list won't help you because we both know they're on that list. bUT ALSO, you know that i know that. so now i'm like, would scum!baltar purposefully drop these little hints, *knowing* that i'm gonna notice them and start losing sleep over them, in order to get into my head?

because i know how much you wanna fool me, but my issue is, like, in the times when i first noticed you doing these tells, they felt more natural. like it made sense for you to bring up notes at the time in oligarchy or guardians because you were catching up on a lot. but here, they were mentioned in the context of a readslist from a half-shitposty first 10 pages of a game. and the "changing votes" thing, originally they were said with much more confidence and self-assurance that i've noticed town!baltar has, while here they just feel said to make sure they've been said

I actually kinda like this

[skitter30]

anyway.

nordom is town for his interaction with deasvail but i think DV is also town for looking at eyes without a face with suspicion.

datisi i'm leaning town on, i'm not sure what the case on him is, i don't quite understand it

i want ari to speak more, but i thought between HEM and Ari, ari looked worse, which is a change from my previous read of HEM being bad. I think I want to VOTE: Aristeia for now.

Hey this is a spicy take, can you elaborate a bit on why you find ari worse than hem?

~
I find nord's comments distasteful, looking forward to what we'll get from a replacement

[skitter30]

oof on that VP read and Scorpious read.

the scorpious read is something i call the luca blight tell (which, to be fair, has failed me once before, but we do not talk about that)

do you think i should be townreading you?

Can you elaborate a bit on the scorp one, i just ... have no thoughts there at all

[skitter30]

(before you ask, the tell is that if someone is mostly lurking, and when they post they're mostly shitposting without trying to appear townie, they're more likely town. this does not apply to players like not_mafia.

it also does not necessarily apply to scorpious, because i've seen fua say he always plays like this, and i don't have the knowledge to know whether he'd play like this as scum, which is why it's only weakly town!indicative)

Whoops >.>
Not sure i agree with this tell tbh

~
As an aside i'm just realizing that yeet has kinda fallen off after their big burst of activity at gamestart

[skitter30]

What if Fire/Ari are scum and know Wu is town?

Still dont get this wu push
Like why are you pushing wu over scorpius or frog or other players in the same general category

Pedit one or two incidental games. Or in other words, i'm not using meta for this one

[skitter30]

I define LHFs as town misyeets that are easy for the scum team to get.

If my scumbuddy was being bad I would probably just bus them.

Noting

[skitter30]

I'm not really feeling my dats vote anymore

VOTE: hem

Would also vote fua

Pedit that timing tho

[skitter30]

i like vpb's readlist

what do you like about it?

Ah i thought i answered that earlier and that you would see it when you continued reading

I liked that a lot of his reads matched what i was thinking at the time, in particular that we shared a lot of townreads

[skitter30]

Pedit one or two incidental games. Or in other words, i'm not using meta for this one

rude. Also, it's been 3, 2 scum, and 1 town and you tunneled me each game so...

I dont remember doing that >.> which games were they again?

[skitter30]

Pedit one or two incidental games. Or in other words, i'm not using meta for this one

rude. Also, it's been 3, 2 scum, and 1 town and you tunneled me each game so...

I dont remember doing that >.> which games were they again?

Ok i found 2 and one of them i did tunnel you but i actually have no memory of why i did that and i was scum also there so

[skitter30]

"u need 2 push this read over this read"

No, that's not what i'm saying, i'm asking *why* that's the slot you're focusing on, and no i dont understand why you cant focus on more than one

And i dont like the push on wuin general, i said that many times

[skitter30]

I'm actually kinda more concerned abt your yeet read, which i brought up multiple times - why are you scumreading him?

[skitter30]

if you were scum tunneling me it was b/c you felt I was an EZ push that you could hedge on. Why are you pretending like you don't know how to play mafia?

I mean presumably, i was more saying that i dont remmeber the specifics of why i thought that would be beneficial at the time

So if you want to talk abt my apparent long-storied history of tunneling you, i dont have much to say

[skitter30]

Why should I push Scorp over Wu?

Why are you setting this up as one or the other, i'm asking why not both / why your attentions are on wu

[skitter30]

I was actually on Nord b4 Fua asked me to come back to Wu. Read the game b4 you try to talk 2 me.

Yes and you started the game pushing wu/hem and then circled back to wu, yes

[skitter30]

I'm actually kinda more concerned abt your yeet read, which i brought up multiple times - why are you scumreading him?

Can u answer this plz ^

And idk what you're trying to say in that post

[skitter30]

No I clearly don’t because D1 mason claiming as scum is Suicide.

Uh just pointing out that we literally *just* saw an example where the day1 fakeclaim masons were town and scum, and respectively lasted until n4 and day5 respectively (and that you were being quite difficult abt flipping the scum half ....)


~

Anyways i dont particularly believe this but i'll let night actions sort it out
VOTE: fua

[skitter30]

honestly? assuming the mason claim is real, monkeyvAri prob was a TvT and Fire is prob scum here.

Why fire?

[skitter30]

can't he just be like a Vi? (im getting cold feet)

...

[skitter30]

R.e. fua:

, really dislike their initial tene scrumread because:
- i tr tene p strongly
- the reasons they gave to sr them dont align wirh what tene was actually doing or saying at varuous points in the game (and thus read as p baseless to me)
- didnt really respond or acknowledge that ehen i pointed that out like half a game ago

I dont really like their take of calling both me ans vpb 'town with bad takes' when we're both objecting to their play


Reads are geneally upside down from mine

[skitter30]

honestly? assuming the mason claim is real, monkeyvAri prob was a TvT and Fire is prob scum here.

Why fire?

Didn't I tell you to read my posts b4 you tried to talk to me?

K

[skitter30]

Tbf nero has been pushing wu for much of the game, your pushes would be better if you read more/listened to the context that people are giving you since i think at best you're coming to conclusions that are based on a diffetent gamestate than the one i've been playing in

[skitter30]

What are your reads in broader detail?
How would you summarize D1 so far?

Townie: fire, ari, tene, vpb, possibly deasvail, possibly yeet
Scummy: fua, nero, eyes

There's a bunch of people in the middle that i havent sorted yet either, but these i feel good on

Was scumreading hem too but i need to reassess now if the claim waa real, i do still sr him on play
Was scumreading dats for a large portion of the game but i think i was tunneled and dont want to vote him anymore, and there were some posts from him.i thought was townie

~

Yeet started the game pushing dats hard and got a bunch of.townreads
Dats made a poor tene vote on like p3 that i founf suspicious, so i voted him, at the time a lot of people were suspicious of him as well and he got wagoned
Hem and ari got into a fight and i think hem's half was a lot worse than ari's
People started trying to condense on hem/wu so we dont have a 4000 post day1, i voted hem
Dont really ger why wu is a wagon tbh, or why we were wagoning him over like scorp frog etc

[skitter30]

Wu/fire/tene/Nero/you

This seems a good grouping with lots of scum

Nope, that's a p bad po

[skitter30]

- i tr tene p strongly

I still don't quite understand how you have had such a strongnTR there

They're thinking abt the gane critically, providing new insights, i can track their thought processes and how they're trying to solve the game, and there are quite a few posts i liked and agreed with when i read them

[skitter30]

Hmmm so you think HEM is scummier than Ari? Am I reading this right Skitter?

Yes, by far

[skitter30]

Wu/fire/tene/Nero/you

This seems a good grouping with lots of scum

Nope, that's a p bad po

* bad poe

[skitter30]

Hmmm so you think HEM is scummier than Ari? Am I reading this right Skitter?

Yes, by far

You think a mason is scummier than Ari? Really?

On play, yes
If he's actually a mason then sure he's town but based on the info i had at the time fo their fight, he was significanfly scummier

There's a reason both of your slots were getting wagoned...

[skitter30]

I mean i suppose you can read ir that way if you like, but that's not really how i would describe the gamestate, esp given that i dont think.either dats or wu were in danger of getting flipped at the time

Hem was scummy
I actually didnt think your slot was scummy, but they were Distasteful and quite a few people found them scummy (tho i think people were conflating 'Gross Posting from a common decency standpoint' with 'scumposting')

[skitter30]

Thats so fake though. Math and Hem are either masons or scum together. You don't need to reacess.

I already said i dont really believe it but would let night actions sort it out

I dont think hem.is town on play but i dont see a point in pursuing that read rn

[skitter30]

Don’t get me wrong my predecessor was being mean to put it mildly

But that many votes on policy elims means scum don’t want the active wagons.

They were not getting policied, people were voting them since they scumread them

I just think a lot of people were scumreading them because the posts were distasteful without realizing that the scumread was stemming from there

[skitter30]

vla until monday

[skitter30]

Some probably. But considering north of half the game moved from Datisi/Wu to HEM/me this means scum also did it. Thus implying one or more Datisi/Wu scum
Otherwise scum get brownie points for stopping the wagons they didn’t take.

Ok, i still disagree with this assessment

Yes given a game this large there were probably scum on dats/wu, and there were also scum on hem/you

I dont think the wagons 'purposefully' moved from the first two to the latter, or the fact that scum moving implies that they were leaving former scum wagons

Fun fact: i was just in a game with a 4way eod scramble. I spent quite a lot fo time reading into wagon movements and trying to figure out who was the scum getting saved there. All 4 people were town. Scum were doing absolutely nothing at the time

Sometimes there really isnt anything deeper, and i think you're lacking context on jow things developed and this is one of those times

[skitter30]

"If he's mason, he's town, but I was only SRing him at the time and not now" is how it reads to me.

I found his play ri be scummy. Someone claiming mason partners with him doesnt change rhe fact that his play was scummy

[skitter30]

but I will say that crumbing (in the least secretive way possible) in an entry post and then literally 25 minutes later being like "im mason, look at my crumbs for proof" and then "oh i had to claim because both masons were wagoned QUICK VOTE THESE SPECIFIC OTHER PEOPLE THERE'S NO TIME" is hilarious

Yep

[skitter30]

I find him scummy but this isnt a read i'm going to pursue rn since i'm going to let night actions sort it out, yes

I'm not gonna retrofit my reads and day his play wasnt scummy at the time because someone claimed masons eith him later

You were literally two weeks ago in a game where town fakeclaimed masons with scum, being in a mason claim doesnt absolve you of your play

[skitter30]

* be9ng in an unproven mason claim day1, to clarify before people shout at me

[skitter30]

Ah i think the old pronoun field may have been taken down, and the only one showing now is the new one maybe?
If that's the case they probably should have announced deprecating the old one

[skitter30]

I said i dont believe rhe claim and that i would let night actions resolve the pair of slots

And i can have reads on both slots based on play independant of the claim

[skitter30]

Fua any comment on my vote on you?

[skitter30]

I'm trying to sort fua >.>
I also dont think there's much point bickering abt this since if you're town we apparently have very different poes on how to approach this

[skitter30]

Povs ugh

[skitter30]

Math your perception of the gamestate is skewed, and at least 4 different people are telling you that

If you're implying 'm passively shading you because i'm buddies with wu and trying to divert that wagon, that predicates wu is scum and that's still not something i'm particularly sold on

[skitter30]

There needs to be a catalyst why.

No, there doesnt, and the wagon movements were a lot more organic than how you're describing them

[skitter30]

And monkey was painted to be scummy but wasn’t

why not

Because he’s a mason he can’t be scum
Naturally scum say town are scummy
But there’s nothing scummy in the ISO

Again that doesn't mean his play wasnt scummy or bad. Lots of townies are scummy, and even got misflipped for it, that's how scum win games ....

Its unreasonable to expect people to *at the time* see that hem was townie just because he has a mason role pm when he wasnt playing in a pro town fashion

At least 5 people were on that wagon. Unless you want to say there's 5 scum and they were all piling on him, some townies had to have been scumreading him. It isnt an unreasonable position from the pov of literally anyone else to take

[skitter30]

you know just because someone has a town role PM doesn't mean it's impossible for them to play in a way that is scummy right?

Yes, this...

[skitter30]

Baseless crap like this doesn’t help me get where you are if that’s what you want.

Ok and bickering with me abt this isnt going to make me do what you want either

[skitter30]

Right cuz bickering with you worked so well for me last time

[skitter30]

Fua any comment on my vote on you?

I feel like it's substanceless and poorly justified, like you're trying to fit current me into the initial scumread you had of me based on my push of Tenebro. "We have completely different reads" shouldn't be in the same case as "They said I have bad takes" because I'm obviously going to think you have bad takes with different reads. Doesn't mean I can't still read your play as relatively townie even if the tree you are barking up is on the other side of the planet from mine.

No, but it was largely colored by the tene read, yes
And its more jsut that i'm having a hard time understanding your pov and how you're reaching your reads if you're town

[skitter30]

i can't believe that you seriously can't comprehend the possibility that you knowing two alignments is affecting your ability to accurately assess whether those slots look scummy to an outside perspective or not. is everyone who votes town either scum or blind to you? you know that happens, like, all the time. right?

^^^^^^

And math my tone is different because i dont particularly care to have a long-drawn out argument with you when you are almost for sure going to get resolved naturally if i wait a bit

I find your pov of the game utterly bizarre and i dont think i'm going to convincr you to change your mind, so i really want to have this argument, so i'm gonna let you do your thing and i'm gonna do mine

[skitter30]

Ok i have to bounce, see y'all maybe sunday

[skitter30]

Thank you !

Also i'm flying home sunday so idk if i'll be around then

Bookends math amirite?

Pedit thanks math to you too!

Also i literally like dont have time to spend the next three days bickering with you lol

[skitter30]

Ok i probably believe the claim now

[skitter30]

it might be useful to see who actually follows this logic of his though!

how are you dats?

<3

[skitter30]

@ everyone

is cape town

Probably
Why do u think i'm sus of u ?

[skitter30]

I literally cant read 30 pages tonight, i'll try to catchup tomorrow

[skitter30]

Cape, fua, did you realize you were the hammer and e1 votes respectively?i think that scum on the wagon is probably towards the end (dats/fua/cape) or in the middle bunch of std, vp, yeet

Fua who was your target last night?

I still think nero is scum in the hood and i'm not sure why you didnt end up on wu despite pusging him p hard earlier in the day
The scum-to-town spectrum in the hood imo is: nero > vp > cape

Pedit of course it matters ....

[skitter30]

VOTE: fua

[skitter30]

Well we're missing a shot from you that would help sort out your alignment, and knowing your target could help figure out what happened (bp, maybe someone tracked you, etc), but you not sharing is dodgy
For all i know you're making the whole thing up ...

And you dont get why deasvail might be sus of rhe missing shot?

Pedit its not no reason, you arenr proven and you've given nothing to indicate the claim is true

[skitter30]

Spoiler:

game feels wonky

Nero scum reads Wu

no one cares

now its likke half the thread scum reads him. Ofc, lurking with a history of lurking as scum will do that to you, I guess.

i'm goin to do my best NM impression this game and hammer any of Ari, Fua or Wu get to L-1

I'm also in a 4p hood with VP, Cape, and Skitter. I doubt its all 4 town and im town and cape is prob town. It's why I've been pushing that at least 1 of them is scum but I don't think it's impossible that both VP and Skitter are scum.

I'd like to see a dead Skitter or Ari's rep the most. Maybe Fua is scum that was buddying me. Don't really care that much about Wu staying alive.

vote Wu or Skitter, stop stalling

Why aren't u voting Wu?

I'm ok with voting out a useless slot d1 (Wu) but I don't really think it flips scum.

@nero where and how die you change your mind? You were p on board with this push up until this last quote but not really seeing why you changed your mind at that point

[skitter30]

Why does me not claiming who I shot at matter? Who the vig shoots isn’t alignment indicative at all.

No, but knowing that helps:
- sort you and understand what you were thinking last night
- sorting the game mechanically whenever we get to that point
- actually giving sime ant kf credence to your claim, for all i know you're making this up

And if you're town idk why you dont share this info either

[skitter30]

Skitter is openwolfing though.

And you're fine with dats' vote because

[skitter30]

VOTE: Skitter

Not claiming who I shot unless I get run up by people who aren’t scum

.

Ok i found this incredibly scummy cuz idk why town-you feels like you need fo hide rhis information, and i see a lot of reasons why scum-you would

Of the like 6 people who've posted thus far, 3 are having diubts abt your night action - are all of these people scum?
Pedit if that's fire rhat's an awful shot
Pedit2 no i quoted all the posts on the second page of your iso that contain a read of wu until you said you were no longer sure abt flipping him. If i cherry-picked to show a narrative, feel free to show how and what i'm ignoring

[skitter30]

Why fire?

[skitter30]

No, i'm just an easier target than you so its convenient for them to ignore you

[skitter30]

Because I’m on the side of REASON and LOGIC!

Well i'm sorry for annoying you but i think this is entrance is p scummy so i'm going to push you, yes

[skitter30]

You have Internet. I am doing this time old tradition of being proven wrong shutting up and listening,

Hood people what happened in your hood overnight?

Not much, i didnt really contribute much since i soent most of the night traveling home

Vob gave me a tldr of the eod
Vpb and nero expressed mutual suspicion and the thought that they each want to find scum in the hood

[skitter30]

Why would I lie about shooting Fire instead of someone like Scorpious or Eyes?

Well, if you explained why you decided to target fire it would help ...

[skitter30]

Like. You tell me to be honest about who I shoot and then when I say that I shot one of my top scumreads you tell me it’s a bad shot??? I think it makes perfect sense.

Because if fhat's who you shot it was a p bad shot since they're p townie

You should have shot like: in the hood, scorp, eyes, lurkers, etc

[skitter30]

Why fire?

@Skitter Why immediately hop to fire and not Frogsterking or be confused as both names start with F?

@Fua Why not jump on this?

I forgot frog was a player in the game >.>
Frog would make a lot more sense

[skitter30]

Well was it fire or frog

[skitter30]

Why is fire scummy to you?

[skitter30]

I didnf cherrypick anything, and you're not helping

[skitter30]

This reads like SvS who had a precalculated fight. I think fua and Skitter can both die.

Well we can start with fua

[skitter30]

Why would you be shot last night ?

Pedit the irony

[skitter30]

I didnf cherrypick anything, and you're not helping

Why would you not shoot skitter?

I thought Fire’s vote on me with the ‘That’s a good point’ and her defense of Ari were more scum-oriented and also I submitted it in the first hour and didn’t think it through. I guess I didn’t want to shoot the V/LA person when they weren’t around for the end of the phase.

Ok i missed this, apologies:
- not sure why you think their vote/defense of ari were scum motivated
- appreciate the latter but feel free to shoot me next time if you think i'm the sucmmiest

[skitter30]

Why would you be shot last night ?

Pedit the irony

Because if there’s a vig they would know I’m lying?????? ???

I mean only if there's a vig? You not being shot at doesnt prove anything ...

[skitter30]

Also that's a silly tell, no offense

[skitter30]

Like the more bloat that gets added to the game that is unproductive crap the more likely this is SvS.

If you are the town side talk about who is scum with whoever you are pushing

Again, noting the irony
And for the second: nero

[skitter30]

Skitter can you explain how your read on Fire progressed between 141 and 1386? I can't find it in your ISO.

If you're trying to make a point r.e. cherrypicking, you're doing a poor job of it

[skitter30]

Yeah, no. This is getting frustrating because I’m 99% sure I was roleblocked and being told that my reads are bad and gaslit when I’m 100% sure I’m vig is making me view this game in an unhealthy mindset. Sorry, but I need to replace out for my own mental health. Peace.

I apologize ... i really, really dont ever want to be a reason for someone repping out
I'm not sure how to fix this or what i can do, but even if i think you're scum i dont want to interact in a way that would make you feel this way, so yeah
I'm sorry

[skitter30]

They said “someone who started with F” okay still multiple people. If they intended it to be one fua would have just said the name. Instead Skitter goes why fire and Fua goes along with it.

This is a wild reason to teamread people

~
@frof i like fire because they're making good, cogent points abt the game in a pique-ish manner that wont endear them to anybody. They're trying to solve but arent trying to end up on anyone's 'good' list

[skitter30]

Fua forgot frog existed just after making a two player PoE doesn’t make sense

I mean tbf to them they also p clearly forgot frog was in the game

[skitter30]

They can form reads with that person is scum who with. That’d be a lot more convincing the other person is scum rather than back and forth repeatedly

I already did, in that i said i thought nero was scum

[skitter30]

I'm p sure they didnt meant for frog to be in the poe at all, when they said someone who started wirh an F i think they meant exactly fire (and werent thining about frog), but was trying to be oblique for whatever reason

[skitter30]

Because i think that's the more likely explanation than how you're explaining it, and while i think they're scum you're reasoning for why is wrong imo

[skitter30]

Save The Dragons, Mafia Bulletproof Traitor
---
April Ludgate, Vanilla Townie

i am shocked

SHOCKED I TELL YOU

i was 1000000% sure ari was the traitor and that she was repeatedly softing to me

Me too 100%