Large Normal 241: Random Pictures and Other Stuff | Endgame

[fireisredsir]

hello friends

im actually really sad i didn't roll scum here, it would've been so much fun

VOTE: Ausuka

[fireisredsir]

<3 this pl

VOTE: dats

aaaaa two skitters?????

[fireisredsir]

nero was making a joke

[fireisredsir]

>.>

[fireisredsir]

tbf, I was going to and maybe I should have, quoted the unvoting list. I thought it would be funny to lambast half the gam for being useless with thier votes when they were technically not voting.

dw i got ur joke

[fireisredsir]

elite level joke-getter here

that makes me locktown imo

[fireisredsir]

VOTE: marci

come back here

[fireisredsir]

shush fire im lurking dont ruin the mood

sounds kinda scummy to me!!

[fireisredsir]

ok well i wanted to pressure marci but my heart isn't in it she's just town imo

VOTE: Ari

[fireisredsir]

sometimes..

when I'm lonely I sit and think about him..

and it hurts to remember all the good times....

i like this song

[fireisredsir]

she's just town imo

holy mother of quick conclusions

it's ok to have quick conclusions when they're right :>

[fireisredsir]

so why is marci town share your gospel

bc she seems very not stressed or awkward and is posting when she wants to rather than out of feeling obligated to do so

[fireisredsir]

she's just town imo

holy mother of quick conclusions

it's ok to have quick conclusions when they're right :>

how do you know its right?

because im informed of everyone's alignment, ofc

[fireisredsir]

i also think it's less likely that fire and ydrasse as scum would type similar reasons that close together

why do you think this

idk how we would know what each other were typing?

[fireisredsir]

fire is prob town imo

everyone is going to have to call me fireb this game aren't they
or fb

you had the name first, i don't want to steal it :<

[fireisredsir]

i also think it's less likely that fire and ydrasse as scum would type similar reasons that close together

why do you think this

idk how we would know what each other were typing?

that's exactly what im saying

you're saying that as scum, when your post was made at x:33 and our responses were both at x:35, in those two minutes we would have consulted with each other in the pt about how we wanted to respond to you rather than just playing it naturally?

and that the chance of us doing that is somehow significant enough that the fact we had similar responses decreases the likelihood of us being scum together?

[fireisredsir]

scamper a little town

scamper can have a little townread, as a treat

[fireisredsir]

scamper a little town

scamper can have a little townread, as a treat

Feel like you're trying too hard to be cute this game....

i don't have to try :>

[fireisredsir]

skitter you missed it, lately ive been burnt out and haven't cared much about early game of games as town

vp is actually correct that i would generally be more likely to be approaching the game the way that i am here if i were scum

however i am just genuinely having a good time here and enjoying this early game so unfortunately he is wrong. i think it's very slightly towny that he had that thought tho

[fireisredsir]

I am glad you are having a good time fireisredsir!

thanks aristeia!! im sorry that you had to roll maf this time, but i hope that it's with a fun team! im quite jealous

[fireisredsir]

skitter you missed it, lately ive been burnt out and haven't cared much about early game of games as town

ty for the context, that explains a bit more how vp is approaching this, i was thinking u feel p similar to the last few games i have played with you

did i play a game with scum-you? i'm not remembering offhand

i think you specced at least some of invictus

[fireisredsir]

nero making a joke = scum nero!?

if you think this then you are prob scum.

gut says might be town Nero

is it bc he correctly scumread your scum partner?

[fireisredsir]

addendum I forgot to add, specifically I really dislike the trailing "..." on 114, that's what gives me the shit stirring vibe. like if you think Nero being wrong in 113 means something, say that, if you don't, what's the point of the post

i get what you mean but the "..." is nai dw about it

[fireisredsir]

ok well i wanted to pressure marci but my heart isn't in it she's just town imo

VOTE: Ari

marci is town yeah

what

what

[fireisredsir]

people care about how well they are liked on this site?

i care desperately but i understand it's a flaw

[fireisredsir]

ausuka actually town, probably. sad, i liked the ausuka/ari theory

[fireisredsir]

I mean, you COULD read Skitters post as scum hyper focused on the way she was being read but I just saw it more as her thinking I was throwing shit at her and missing the obvious joke. I think she's town

i vaguely like this bc i vaguely remember scum!prism using this line of argument to find skitter scummy in a previous game (lake melancholy)? i think? im not fact checking that

but the fact that you noticed and and landed on town anyway is kinda towny, i think

[fireisredsir]

ok i'm sorta caught up ama

did you want to explain your what

i whatted your what

[fireisredsir]

ausuka actually town, probably. sad, i liked the ausuka/ari theory

Why am I town? I haven't posted much actual content so far, so I'm surprised you stated a read on me not once but twice.

i said you were town bc i liked your callout of datisi for the post about GL bc i felt similarly about it

but it does seem his reasoning was more nuanced than it originally appeared, so i don't really suspect him for it anymore. i still like that you called it out tho and are continuing to pursue that line

[fireisredsir]

scamper a little town

scamper can have a little townread, as a treat

Trying to catch up slowly but surely and this made me laugh

on page 6 and towncore is ydrasse/fireisred/scamper

i forgot since you weren't here earlier but i was gonna say to convince you to play that we can just pretend this is a coalition game

i see you're starting down that path already

[fireisredsir]

Question for you Ausuka - should I scumread fireisredsir for starting the game with this post

im actually really sad i didn't roll scum here, it would've been so much fun

and then having the time of his life for the next however-many-pages-he-was-around? Or should I continue to townread him for the joyous vibe and for having 2-3 towny posts?

ari what do you think of datisi so far?

[fireisredsir]

that quote was supposed to go in this post, which was saying that i probably wouldn't have made that first post as scum and then proceeded to project a very different vibe, bc it will only draw attention to the difference and nobody is gonna townread me for it anyway

[fireisredsir]

ari can maybe be town if she saw something that i also saw. ok no point in being vague when i didn't out too many reads, if she noticed that baltar not voting me is weird, then yeah +town

Red flag.

You think I'm obligated to vote you as my rvs?

i feel like the other reasons so far to suspect datisi feel a bit... better than this

why is this a red flag? datisi feeling entitled to an rvs vote?

I guess I kind of did answer this actually. I think datisi is kind of making up reasons after the fact around his ari play, and part of that is this assumption that I MUST rvs vote dats because I do frequently.

Datisi is well aware that I don't play the opening of games the same all the time. I take different approaches based on my mood and what I think will be interesting. It's just a contrived thought process to me.

why would it be post hoc if he explained it in the same post that he originally made the read in

every post after that hasn't been adding new info it's just reiterating the same point that was in the original post

[fireisredsir]

unfortunately in my experience with vp you can't really go off whether it feels like he's engaging genuinely or if his thoughts are real thoughts that a real person would think

[fireisredsir]

unfortunately in my experience with vp you can't really go off whether it feels like he's engaging genuinely or if his thoughts are real thoughts that a real person would think

p. sure I'm being called a bot.

reported.

all i hear is "beep boop must find nitpicky reason to have obligatory argument with datisi in early game beep boop"

[fireisredsir]

unfortunately in my experience with vp you can't really go off whether it feels like he's engaging genuinely or if his thoughts are real thoughts that a real person would think

What can you go off of?

i don't know if ive ever read him correctly so i don't think i have the answer

i only know what has failed to work for me in the past

[fireisredsir]

unfortunately in my experience with vp you can't really go off whether it feels like he's engaging genuinely or if his thoughts are real thoughts that a real person would think

p. sure I'm being called a bot.

reported.

all i hear is "beep boop must find nitpicky reason to have obligatory argument with datisi in early game beep boop"

oh no, i agree with fire about baltar. that probably means fire is scum. this is so sad.

i actually don't really think he's scum, bc if he was scum with ari then i think they'd be arguing with each other a lot more

and ari is scum

[fireisredsir]

what, you mean my "reaction test" on ari? i feel like i have made myself quite clear what my thought process was there, what part is giving you trouble?

ok but is anyone else scumreading datisi for posts like? Too nice. I felt the same about our first few interactions in our coalition game (my thought was "huh, very nice and polite") and while at that time it felt NAI I kind of think it might be scummy for Datisi specifically? Trying to rein in his tone sort of thing
I am in the tunnel and I'm not coming out!!

fire I think you maybe said you think datisi is town? Why?

i don't know if i said that but i did think it, at least. maybe you read my mind

i really don't even know what towntisi looks like atp but i do have a slight gut townread. it doesn't really feel like he's trying to project towniness thaaat much. maybe a little. idk. but i def didn't get the "too nice" vibe, a few responses felt a little cold and flat in a way that i think ive actually seen more from town!him. it doesn't feel like he's trying to pump up his posts with extra emotion or extra thoughts

[fireisredsir]

Why is Ari scum

I was leaning town kinda but not sure how to substantiate it? I feel like scum her would like, probably be more likely to go around trying to get townread instead of playing so passively?

is it ok if i don't explain this yet

i will pretend its bc i want to see how ari will act if she doesn't know why i think she's scum

but actually it's bc she's scary

and i don't feel like trying to convince anyone atp because there's a plausible alternative explanation

[fireisredsir]

it doesn't feel like he's trying to pump up his posts with extra emotion or extra thoughts

is this a scumtisi quality? IDK if I recall him being more emotional as scum.

not more emotional necessarily, i mean like injecting artificial energy into his posts sometimes

[fireisredsir]

I don't think I am scary at all but it is more interesting to be wagoned than the alternative so I'll allow it.

i think that if i share a reason that could be viewed as "bad" then you will not hesitate to tear it apart and it will weaken any ability to push you later and also might allow you to murder me if you want to do that

the simple reason is that it doesn't really feel like you're trying to sort anyone or move the game forward, but that isn't really my reason

[fireisredsir]

i would like to see more from deasvail

[fireisredsir]

Why is Ari scum

I was leaning town kinda but not sure how to substantiate it? I feel like scum her would like, probably be more likely to go around trying to get townread instead of playing so passively?

is it ok if i don't explain this yet

i will pretend its bc i want to see how ari will act if she doesn't know why i think she's scum

but actually it's bc she's scary

and i don't feel like trying to convince anyone atp because there's a plausible alternative explanation

I don't think I am scary at all but it is more interesting to be wagoned than the alternative so I'll allow it.

i think that if i share a reason that could be viewed as "bad" then you will not hesitate to tear it apart and it will weaken any ability to push you later and also might allow you to murder me if you want to do that

the simple reason is that it doesn't really feel like you're trying to sort anyone or move the game forward, but that isn't really my reason

pretty untrue but I can see why you might think that

the first part, the second part, or both?

[fireisredsir]

the part about me not trying to sorting anyone

who do you think you've been trying to sort, and what have you actively done to further that goal?

[fireisredsir]

i could buy that

[fireisredsir]

dying

[fireisredsir]

missed you nero :>

[fireisredsir]

the part about me not trying to sorting anyone

who do you think you've been trying to sort, and what have you actively done to further that goal?

29 37 51 is sorting nero

60 is sorting hem

39 is sorting ydra

166 is sorting firebringer

169, 172 is sorting baltar

i'm sorting skitter by ignoring her push

and I guess I'm sorting you rn?

hmm i have trouble counting a lot of these as qualifying. i think there are a couple posts that do count but they're later, and it's still kinda overall lacking

did you learn anything from those sorts?

i actually thought it was very odd and surprising that you didn't dunk on nero for 58 but maybe you just didn't really want to engage with him but then you did voluntarily later and im still not really sure if it's gotten you anywhere in terms of a read

[fireisredsir]

that's a pretty good point

[fireisredsir]

that's a pretty good point

but my reads aren't always wrong.

i agree, but i think it's a point that makes her actions consistent from an ari perspective

[fireisredsir]

I thought Fire's town read on scamper in 147 was serious but just said in a humorous way.

it was almost entirely joking, i don't think i had much of a read on scamper at that point

but i do townread scamper a little now

[fireisredsir]

VOTE: firebringer

[fireisredsir]

agreed w scamper, we can chill for a bit and let people catch up

[fireisredsir]

really don't think you inserting yourself into this and providing commentary is going to be helpful in any way

they can deal with it themselves

[fireisredsir]

deas town nice let's go

[fireisredsir]

deas town nice let's go

y is that post townie?

the previous time i played with deas (as t/t) we mindmelded so much that i eventually got paranoid he could be pocketing me (partly thanks to FL encouraging that paranoia, but still)

and his post was pretty close to my thought process when i saw that post from ari, but i also hadn't said it in the thread. the read from her felt kinda rote/obligatory and didn't feel like it really looked deeper at trying to figure out datisi's alignment. and i hadn't really (even mentally) put words to why i felt that, but deas' post i think more or less captured it. i understand that isn't gonna do anything for anyone else but for me it results in a townread

but even beyond that, it's also just a p nuanced view of things that shows he's reading closely and thinking carefully about the posts he's reading, and imo the fact that he felt compelled to post about it before doing his main thoughts/catchup just feels like a towny kind of "this is a point that i actually care about" type thing. that on its own might merit just a slight townlean, bc he could fake that, but it was more the fact that i really vibed with the thought that made it stronger

[fireisredsir]

the only thing i have against fireisred is the weird fixation on the logistics of scum coordination when it should have been obvious what i was pointing out instead. if i squint really hard, it seems like something you only think about when you have a pt

i still think that your point about that makes no sense tbh, but i believe that you believe it makes sense so i don't think it's very AI for you

[fireisredsir]

that is a town!datisi tendency, so if he's doing it as scum then it's likely meant to imitate that

[fireisredsir]

im trying very hard not to scumread irrel here bc i know it's for exactly the same reasons i wrongly scumread him last time we played

also hem can be town, actually, probably

also i wanted to wagon datisi bc i think it's a bad idea to let him go the whole game without pressure but im sorry i lean town on him im not good enough at doing fake pushes for pressure i think it would go badly

also hbd ydra

[fireisredsir]

what were you looking for when you skimmed his games?

[fireisredsir]

VOTE: Eiralox

come talk to us

[fireisredsir]

VOTE: Eiralox


Ooooh! A flash wagon!

you seemed more active and engaged in your previous town games that i looked at

do you have any thoughts on this game so far?

[fireisredsir]

VOTE: Eiralox


Ooooh! A flash wagon!

you seemed more active and engaged in your previous town games that i looked at

do you have any thoughts on this game so far?

monke seems town, that's as far as my thoughts wandered. bey bey eira sleepy.

it's just kinda surprising to me that after 1000+ posts that's the only thought you have

[fireisredsir]

oof that is not the response i was looking for

more votes on eiralox

[fireisredsir]

oof that is not the response i was looking for

more votes on eiralox

from reading his past games i think his play so far is entirely nai

disagree, i thought they had a much more bristle-y response to suspicion as town, especially here, which is what i was looking for

the ydra point about wasted votes for now is reasonable ig tho

[fireisredsir]

i feel like i had an actually kinda good point on eiralox and got zero engagement on it

idk if that's meaningful or not

maybe it means nobody else thinks it was a good point. or maybe it means nobody is more aware than normal about pushes on eiralox bc nobody here is partnered with them. idk

also this GL vs VP thing is super uninteresting to me, maybe datisi is right

[fireisredsir]

ok we really need to find a solution to the fire vs fire issue here

im fine to take on another name if fb is not it

[fireisredsir]

i think his push on eiralox is icky, and thats true regardless of eiralox's alignment

i agree with your point that eiralox is likely to be one of the lim candidates here regardless of alignment. and i get that it's an easy push to make

but from what i read of their past games they seemed like someone who as town would actually have strong opinions if they got engaged in the game (i disagree with your assessment that they would always struggle here to enter the game) and so i wanted to see if i felt any of that town energy when i did try to engage them

and i think their response didn't have any of that. which upped the chance of them being scum for me. so i wanted to call for a wagon, not to see how they would respond to it bc they were going to sleep, but to see how the thread would respond

isn't doing that useful, and valuable, especially if they actually are scum, but even if they're town? see who white knights, see who jumps on a LHF push, etc? sitting on firebringer was getting us nowhere. imo it moved the game a bit forward when it was feeling stagnant

its true tho that something like your irrel case is, like, *better* bc it's more interesting, but i didn't have one of those, so shrug. speaking of tho, i will prob have some thoughts on that once i digest it more

[fireisredsir]

Also uh I went back to look at Firs' posting about the eiralox wagon but that is maybe silly because not much time has passed and he hasn't said anything yet

BUT I read the rest of his iso and I'm not really a fan?? I feel like there's a theme where he like seems to emphasize how half hearted he is about everything? I liked him pressuring Ari to some extent but he kept being like "this could definitely be town" and generally felt really hesitant? And I think fb and eiralox are both sort of easy wagons to be on that Feel Like they are doing things but actually I don't think they are really doing things. I don't have that massive of a problem with these in isolation but doing all three in succession feels suspicious - his play feels careful in a way that pings me

hi idk i just have a short attention span and get bored of d1s cause everything feels too mushy to me and every possibility feels like it's still possible

just kinda feels like everyone is sitting in a circle talking about their reads and it doesn't feel like anything is going anywhere

i don't feel like ive learned much necessarily from the eiralox wagon yet but maybe the info is useful later. i don't really expect it to be useful immediately. maybe some slight GL and irrel suspicion, idk

i kinda just wanna yeet people and see some flips

as scum i can pretend to solve forever and work on positioning myself and my team and getting townread and there's always things to DO

as town sometimes i feel like maybe it's actually best for me to just not talk so much. im also sensitive to people wanting a readable game and not wanting to spam too much

but ill do some more today ig

[fireisredsir]

maybe some slight GL and irrel suspicion, idk

is that dependent on Eiralox's alignment at all?

i thought about conditioning it but i think it would apply either way

for me it's less about how you were willing to push there and more about how in 1224 i was aware of how i was kinda putting myself in a vulnerable position and like... begging for some kind stranger to come by and help me out and hear my plea

and that's the kind of time where scum often like to pocket me

but also town can reach out in that situation too so it's not like anything major but it is something that i took note of. and i would think that even if eiralox is scum, their partners would be hesitant to blatantly ignore someone pushing them bc that could look bad

[fireisredsir]

ok so on the irrel case

i do agree with a good amount of it. mostly the bits about the way he interacts with people and how he can kind of back off suspicion at times or feel like he's trying to buddy people and it just feels fake. and i felt those things too

but the thing is that those are like exactly the things i felt from him when he was town and i got pretty tunneled on him. i was reading every post he made and just like had a gut reaction to it that it was fake and kinda slimy, in the same way here

so i feel like i should probably try to ignore those feelings here bc they're probably not a good metric for me at least to judge irrel's alignment

the other points about trying to look towny and whatnot are fine i guess but idk its not very convincing to me that it means he's scum

[fireisredsir]

yea im not super interested in continuing the wagon rn. tbh I do think they are prob scum but not really useful to wagon while it's an empty slot. ill think about who else should be wagoned

don't really think i want to vote irrel either

[fireisredsir]

If eiralox is town, I think it's intuitive to expect him to give a townread to the person questioning him, for example.

i didn't have this expectation at all tho, i specifically chose to question him in a way that he responded very negatively to in previous games as town

[fireisredsir]

I'll explain the vote later

what

what could there possibly be to explain later about that vote

[fireisredsir]

If eiralox is town, I think it's intuitive to expect him to give a townread to the person questioning him, for example.

i didn't have this expectation at all tho, i specifically chose to question him in a way that he responded very negatively to in previous games as town

I feel like eiralox is very unlikely to scumread or even heavily push back on you pressing him specifically on the fact he hasn't done anything? Idk

i mean that was the whole point of me doing that?? is that yes he would??? did you see my 1204/click the link? even if not, why are you confident in assuming that he is very unlikely to do that? you modded that game

[fireisredsir]

ari is now confirmed capable of rolling scum btw

idk if i think she is anymore tho

[fireisredsir]

lol fireisred were you thinking she was scummier here than in Turing test? cause that's what I was thinking lol

yes, more or less

[fireisredsir]

i think the claim that anyone would really scumread someone for pressuring them about not doing anything on like, page 40 is a rather extraordinary one regardless of eiralox's tone in previous games

ok idk maybe they wouldn't scumread but i still think "yes oops sowwy i should have more opinions >.<" is a p different response than "i play how i want, how dare you tell me otherwise, i will have opinions exactly when i want to have them and no sooner"

exaggerated obv but actually not by that much

[fireisredsir]

like regardless of how far in the game is those just don't feel like they come from the same mindset

[fireisredsir]

i think that ari likes to be in control of things as scum and push for the things she wants. i think that it would be somewhat unnatural for her to voluntarily step back and take on more of a support/observing role, and she would only do it if she felt like it would get her somewhere or in order to attempt to manipulate someone, or to specifically break that expectation

as town she has motivation to do that though because of the reasons she's stated already

it's possible that as scum who started this game prior to the other one finishing, knowing there would be some overlap in players, she could have tried to go for a different approach here to make the differences clear. i wouldn't want to rule that out, but i don't think it's most likely

[fireisredsir]

VOTE: Gamma

[fireisredsir]

gonna be low engagement for a while sorry, not feeling this

[fireisredsir]

That being said, a lot of your phrasing comes across as if you're super concerned with your perception by everybody else. Not that I think you're trying to appear town when you're not, but it's got this "please like me and be nice" and I think it's more from a place of you've had bad game experiences that have drained your enjoyment of playing and burnt you out, than it is trying to be townread. I hope you're finding this game fun still.

Spoiler: not really game related

i feel psychoanalyzed and oof, this is a very specific callout and also an incredibly accurate one on more levels than just mafia, and in ways that i hadn't really realized, gonna go lie down and think about my life now

i am not finding this game fun as of pretty recently but hopefully it will pass

[fireisredsir]

obscure i like your style you should stick around and play more games here

also beware of people saying things like this bc they might be trying to pocket you. i am not however, as i am town :>

[fireisredsir]

gamma can you explain more now why you wanted to wait to explain your eiralox vote?

[fireisredsir]

also heya relly

hi! I think you're town because people scumread your entrance to the game in the same way I've seen people scumread you as town like 12 times

I don't have any strong scumreads except, like.... datisi? I sure hope the silent slots are scum

ppl are scum reading Skitter? Who?

No one is anymore really but multiple took issue with her entrance to the thread/her totally missing a joke. Reminds me of multiple times where skitter's serious tone has made people scumread her when she's just being skitter and trying to catch scum.

like I really don't think this happened and so I think he's just whiteknighting Skitter for ???? and it comes across as him knowing her alignment.

I mean, FB did vote Skitter but it was sorta a joke about ^^^ attacking anyone that tried to lim skitter b4 d3.

this is maybe the irrel point that i find the most convincing

i did think that read of things was weird

[fireisredsir]

i think the following are town, unordered
[nero, ydra, scamper, hem, skitter/obscure slot]

im ok with treating the following as town for now, but am not as confident, also unordered
[datisi, deasvail, xofelf, ausuka, maaaybe ari]

im feeling slightly more sociable at the moment, ama while it lasts or don't idc

[fireisredsir]

just finished eating some garlic bread like 5 min ago, was v good

[fireisredsir]

ama while it lasts or don't idc

Thoughts on ConmanMick?

wagon there is fine. nothing really pinged me from his posts but i think the point about him maybe overexaggerating his understanding of the game is perhaps at least decent

[fireisredsir]

what was your reason really?

there were multiple and i thought they were all kinda bad but i believed in them anyway

one was that i thought datisi's response to you asking if he was town felt like a similar vibe to the way he responded to you in lake melancholy and i remembered you townreading him for that (altho you said it was a bad reason). and that was like the only town game he's played in decades and you were right

ik you wouldn't be able to use exactly the same reasoning again bc he was made aware of it, but still it felt like your reaction here was kinda just... flat? routine? like you weren't really interested in investigating the answer

i think there were others ill go look and see if i can remember

[fireisredsir]

oh another thing was what i already talked about with being confused why you just kinda let nero make a bad point and dropped it and moved somewhere else

but i think i actually kinda townread that now

[fireisredsir]

and your entrance overall just felt very lifeless and obligatory

maybe cause datisi wasn't here

[fireisredsir]

ama while it lasts or don't idc

Thoughts on ConmanMick?

wagon there is fine. nothing really pinged me from his posts but i think the point about him maybe overexaggerating his understanding of the game is perhaps at least decent

Do you think VP and Datisi are the same alignment?

i don't feel especially s/s vibes from them. beyond that i don't know

[fireisredsir]

what bad point and how would she stop me?

i think 58 was bad (from a logic standpoint, not an alignment standpoint) and i expected ari as town to take issue with it. i don't really agree with the point anymore anyway and don't have much interest in going into it further

[fireisredsir]

my gut is telling me there are some things you are leaving out of this explanation that have to do with you knowing what my alignment is this game but my gut is often wrong so I will let it slide <3

wouldn't be a town game from you without you misreading me again <3

[fireisredsir]

Oh yeah, last question, any thoughts on dannflor's entrance?

it was fine

the parts that seemed to bother some people didn't bother me, and i kinda like the GL vote, but i still probably lean slightly scum on the slot overall

im ok with seeing what he does for now

[fireisredsir]

i had a baseline scumlean on the slot. i think dann is good at looking towny as scum, so he has a higher bar he needs to clear for me to call it a townlean, but it pushed the needle slightly in the null/town direction

[fireisredsir]

i'm actually slightly embarrassed about the primary reason i scumread fireisredsir so i am counting on him to have sick reads like in Turing Test and put my doubts to rest

i shared my embarrassing reason, it's your turn

i promise to have good reads once we get to 8 town and 5 scum. let's just yeet 6 town in a row and then ill feel more comfortable

[fireisredsir]

i do like the overlap in townreads that most of the people i townread have

maybe willing to just trust scamper's gamma read

definitely willing to find two ish people that are consensus scumread by the towncore and wagon em up and get things moving

frogster seems to be doing good work and being protown. tbh i live in fear that the other shoe will drop at any moment but i do think he's probably town here and i like the approach he's taking so far

[fireisredsir]

i'm actually slightly embarrassed about the primary reason i scumread fireisredsir so i am counting on him to have sick reads like in Turing Test and put my doubts to rest

i shared my embarrassing reason, it's your turn

i promise to have good reads once we get to 8 town and 5 scum. let's just yeet 6 town in a row and then ill feel more comfortable

You've been Towned by like half the towncore and Ari's read on you is contingent on the accuracy of your reads, so it makes sense for you to supply a reads list as well.

EBWOP

Blehghg too many different games

you may perhaps be interested in 1853

im more interested in looking for town atm and don't feel particularly strongly about any specific scumreads so beyond those listed its kinda mushy. i could think more about who in the remainder i am less interested in wagoning

[fireisredsir]

for fire:


so I thought it didn't make a lot of sense for you to push me to sort me in this game because I don't think anyone's really caught me as scum by wagoning me.

I don't think you would think of me as a scum player who can be sorted with pressure or solved with pressure.

in fact it's almost dangerous in a way to push scum me because I am fairly decent at looking

good

and gaining thread control by getting people to vote for me I think.

and this is something you're

aware of

because you stated you didn't want to give me reasoning for the push because you are worried scum me can just judo flip you and kill you easily because ripping apart bad cases is very easy for me and people here have seen me do it as town to scum and mercilessly kill them. You would be essentially giving me the tools to kill you if I was scum with very little gain or upside for yourself. You can't get me to be yeeted without providing very solid reasoning and you don't have the reasoning or ammo to put into the push.

So why would you push me here if you suspect I'm scum? I actually kind of think you wouldn't if you thought I was scum because you simply don't have the thread influence or reasoning to make a push that is likely to kill me and if you're not likely to kill me then why do I even care? You're basically giving me free weapons and making me look better atp.

what does make sense to me is you are feeling uneasy about your solution in the Turing Test and you want to get a better read of me in that game but

you can't talk to me in that game anymore

so you decide to establish a baseline for me and compare.

How do you establish the baseline? well you push me here and see how I react to a suspicion and try to compare with when you called me scum for a brief moment in that game and see if there's any divergence.

but this method only makes sense to do if you know I'm town here and you're testing for a reaction to compare where you know my actual alignment - it doesn't help you if you

don't know my alignment in this game

because how is the comparison even supposed to work?

Another point that fit into the theory is when GuiltyLion asked you something along the lines of "hey I thought Ari was way scummier in this game than Turing LOL" and you kind of replied with a flat yea.

I feel like the way he talked with you was kind of a spontaneous happy uninformed way while your response was notably flat and felt evasive as if you wanted to hide the line of thought between those two games because you can't say to him well I was comparing her play here to that game to evaluate whether she's scum in that game because it would give away that you know what my alignment in this game is.


Anyway that was the thread that's been going through my head but I recognize it's not like very good reasoning and probably not what happened here regardless of your alignment and i'm just hoping you get to like be closer to your town game in that game and carry me to a win here because I like being carried <3

i think this does mostly make sense as a thought process but it relies on a few wrong assumptions

1) i don't have a lot of expectations for how best to find you as scum or how to sort/solve you. i have some expectations of what you would be like as a scum player, and what your goals would be, but basically none about how to get you eliminated if i've found you. my first instinct would be to do exactly what i did. which maybe is a bad approach. it probably is!

2) i am not very good at holding my cards close to my chest or keeping secret scumreads. if i have a scumread, i will almost always at least hint at it bc i want to get my thoughts out there and bc i want to see how the person will respond. sometimes that's a bad idea (i think i was a little too open about my reads in turing test and that made me easier to play around. i was bad at looking like a possible seer or whatever they were called in chromavalon, and bad at looking like a possible mason in frenemies. it's just something im not that good at)

3) i have a lot of examples of your townplay. ive played with you a lot and almost every time you've been town. ive also suspected you early in several of those. i don't know why i would have any reason to feel a need to establish a baseline for you here if i knew you were town here. the baseline that i was missing is your scumplay. so you might be kind of right actually that the overlap in games did have an effect (it wasn't really something i was actively thinking about but it might have impacted me?), but if there was then it was the other way around: i might have been more willing to poke you here when i thought you were scum bc if i could be confident in that read it would give me a better sense of what your scumplay looks like

4) my response to GL was that way bc at the time i was kinda suspicious of him lol, and i was still kinda musing on the situation due to the new info and didn't really feel like sharing my whole thought process with him immediately. if i wanted to fake mirror tone with him i would be very capable of that, i did it with andante all of invictus.

[fireisredsir]

i think that ari likes to be in control of things as scum and push for the things she wants. i think that it would be somewhat unnatural for her to voluntarily step back and take on more of a support/observing role, and she would only do it if she felt like it would get her somewhere or in order to attempt to manipulate someone, or to specifically break that expectation

as town she has motivation to do that though because of the reasons she's stated already

it's possible that as scum who started this game prior to the other one finishing, knowing there would be some overlap in players, she could have tried to go for a different approach here to make the differences clear. i wouldn't want to rule that out, but i don't think it's most likely

also another thing about this reasoning - I think more than one person said this.[Dats and GL Too?]

if you're using how I played in Turing and a comparison and saying that because I'm very good at wielding control as scum that I would be town for

not wielding control

I don't think it's great because;

The key difference between this game and Turing - that setup is not a setup where scum can deepwolf and win whereas this one is.

In Turing if three scum get voted out - the game is over, it doesn't matter how deep one deepwolf gets into the townblock, if you lose three teammates to elimination, you lose the game. By necessity I need to have influence and control things to win, I can't just become very townread and win.

Also the scenarios where you need to influence things to your side will always happen, scum will come up for elimination, it's p much inevitable.

This game does not have that setup - it's open in terms of how you want to play, I can fade into background and have no real threats, scum can never come up for elimination, etc. The game is entirely different and I kind of think you and Datisi would realize this because you're both very smart people and you both understand how strategy works so it feels that read of me is pretty ????

hmm i guess, but the vibe that i get from this game so far is that there is a steadily building towncore of strong town players and that is one where i feel like you would only really be happy sitting back as scum if there is already someone who has made it into that towncore. i don't think you're in it, at least that's not my impression, so it would need to be someone else

and if someone else is already set up to deepwolf then why are you sitting around not taking control but also not being in the towncore? like if ydrasse or someone has tricked us all then i would expect you to be powerwolfing here

and if nobody has, then i still would, bc if you're just sitting here letting scamper and ydrasse and all of these players find each other as town then i think you're gonna have a really hard time

also, turing test is i think a good example of how i would expect you to play as scum, but that's also just kinda my expectation regardless of setup. maybe im wrong on that? idk, i haven't seen you play scum very much, mostly going off what you've described yourself

[fireisredsir]

ok i re-checked the readlists and maybe ari is more in the towncore than i thought in which case idk maybe im wrong on that point

[fireisredsir]

VOTE: conman

[fireisredsir]

i think this could be following the same trajectory as turing test here where i kinda lowkey scumread GL for most of d1 and then it gets to eod and he summarizes his reads and oops turns out we agree on almost everything maybe he's just town

[fireisredsir]

i think this could be following the same trajectory as turing test here where i kinda lowkey scumread GL for most of d1 and then it gets to eod and he summarizes his reads and oops turns out we agree on almost everything maybe he's just town

can you give me like the top liner for why you're voting CMM instead of Dann? I'm considering switching but kinda want to see what Dann does on return

i trust scamper and ydra and they have CMM as a top scum and dann more towards null

[fireisredsir]

i think this could be following the same trajectory as turing test here where i kinda lowkey scumread GL for most of d1 and then it gets to eod and he summarizes his reads and oops turns out we agree on almost everything maybe he's just town

Townposting

correct answer but wrong process. that's a trajectory i would plan as scum. watch out, don't let me fool you next time!!

[fireisredsir]

how did we get here?

shrimp scampi

[fireisredsir]

i do like the overlap in townreads that most of the people i townread have

maybe willing to just trust scamper's gamma read

definitely willing to find two ish people that are consensus scumread by the towncore and wagon em up and get things moving

frogster seems to be doing good work and being protown. tbh i live in fear that the other shoe will drop at any moment but i do think he's probably town here and i like the approach he's taking so far

What are your own thoughts on me?

i think i have a lot of trouble not just inherently reading a lot of what you say as fake and so i think it's better for me to outsource my read on you to other people

when i read your posts i still read you as scummy but it feels kinda the same as when i did in frenemies, until i figured out you were a mason and dropped it

[fireisredsir]

Ayo redfire, you still good w your vote?

what makes you think i wouldn't be?

[fireisredsir]

You said you wanted to defer to scamper’s read and scamper is townreading me

yea im not voting for you

[fireisredsir]

You posted that you wanted to go with Scamper while still voting me
You then changed votes after that VC post
Why did you lose track of your vote?

i didn't lose track of my vote. i would recommend reading things before you talk about them, it can be helpful

[fireisredsir]

i don't think you needed to call dibs

[fireisredsir]

VOTE: dann

[fireisredsir]

something about vp's assessment of the wagons rubbed me the wrong way a bit but i haven't seen much else that i feel strongly about for him

[fireisredsir]

thats a pretty pure wagon i think

[fireisredsir]

ah i was just about to try to play this game a bit to distract myself, rip

ill be a lot busier starting tomorrow, will not be at the activity levels ive had the last few months

[fireisredsir]

[dkkoba voice:] scum self hammer means there's a busser on wagon

and i promise it's not me this game

it's baltar tbh

[fireisredsir]

last thoughts before thread lock - I kinda like VPB's reply to me there? assuming Con is scum, I'm prob still SRing Fire and Dan, but VPB might be town and I might be snowed by a scum elsewhere

this is not the reaction i had, would be interested in more explanation of why you like it

[fireisredsir]

Okay so I’m still sick who should I vote

anyone you want!! votes don't matter anymore! we're free!!!!!

[fireisredsir]

VOTE: irrel

[fireisredsir]

Another nap it is I guess

get well soon!!

[fireisredsir]

WAIT I thought we had until September 8th? I was going to read more before it ended... can we still talk? Do we know if they're mafia?

if someone reaches majority of votes then its called a hammer and the day ends early

[fireisredsir]

the mod will lock the thread and show us conman's alignment soon, and then its night for 2 days

[fireisredsir]

yay baltar scum

boo ari dead :<

[fireisredsir]

Post 270 is a YIKES from me. Saying that the town read on ausuka came from the datisi callout but the proclamation of ausuka town read came BEFORE the post which is referenced in this post. Post hoc justification of a read is serious scum vibes. There was no datisi callout yet, just a naked vote.

um ausuka voting datisi for that post is why i called ausuka town

the vote was not naked it was directly in response to datisi's post and quoted it

she did not explain the reasoning behind it but she didn't need to bc i understood what she was thinking anyway (or at least i thought i did, and her later explanation confirmed that)

[fireisredsir]

Post 1414 self meta is either useless or cheating. Either you are lying and you try to do these things equally because you are aware of them, OR you are actually aware of the differences in your play and intentionally not fixing them and bringing them to the attention of others in your town games is borderline trust telling. So I guess my question to you is: Which is it? Are you so bad that there is a massive difference in your town games and your scum games in how you fundamentally approach day one and you’re mentioning that here to say you’re town in this game, or are you a capable town and scum player who we can safely disregard your self meta description of yourself?

don't rly care what you think about the usefulness of self meta, i like sharing my thoughts. you are welcome to ignore them if you want

calling it borderline trust telling is ridiculous. nowhere did i say that my town and scum games are wildly divergent and that one should be instantly recognizable. i was just trying to explain my motivations/mindset in this specific game bc it was relevant to the post i was responding to

my goal as scum is not to precisely imitate my townplay. it's to get townread and to kill town. those are accomplished in very different ways so your point here is irrelevant

[fireisredsir]

i think you should be happy that you came to a better conclusion

well jury is still out on marci, not so sure about that one

[fireisredsir]

Idk i like 1v1s

i felt a gradually creeping sense of dread reading your section on scamper bc i think if you had stayed in the tunnel and tried to force a 1v1 it would have like destroyed the game if you're town, based on what seems to be your playstyle

so i was very happy to see you land more on the town side of things

[fireisredsir]

ok baltar iso thoughts:
- maybe the easiest take here, but i don't think his interaction with datisi felt like partners to me? he felt a little like... worried. like he was kinda poking from a distance out of a sense of obligation but not really fully engaging. it didn't feel like they were on the same page or matching each other's energy
- irrel slot is believable as a partner here. nothing too bad tho
- same goes for firebringer slot
- i don't really see the marci read as clearing @scamper?
- the GL thing ehh i kinda am leaning town GL now, don't find the S/S take as compelling as i did originally
- i kinda get the feeling the way he interacted with the major wagons of the day means that one of them was on scum but im not really sure which. v helpful i know. he just felt slightly uncomfortable at times later in the day when he was sorting out which direction to go, like he needed to do some sort of action beyond what he would normally just do to get townread

[fireisredsir]

Post 2003 like here we’re just throwing out the term pocket which is definitely obscure mafia terminology but we made a big show of googling omgus??? Especially because his experience is supposedly IRL and I’ve played a shit ton IRL and its not like pocket is a phrase that comes up a ton there in my experience

the rest of the points here are whatever, but this one is def wrong

he is referencing my 1749 in which i literally used the word pocket

its not that deep

[fireisredsir]

I like fires interaction with me so far. Gunna town bin.

can you go into more detail on that

[fireisredsir]

last thoughts before thread lock - I kinda like VPB's reply to me there? assuming Con is scum, I'm prob still SRing Fire and Dan, but VPB might be town and I might be snowed by a scum elsewhere

this is not the reaction i had, would be interested in more explanation of why you like it

I guess I am thinking scum!VPB knowing scum!CMM would be doing a bit more agenda/manuevering off this CMM flip

whereas I made the point in 2173 that it felt like his first jump from CMM->GL was directly in response to me fighting with him, rather than something he premeditated or planned

and then again here I thought he may have been trying to set me up to look bad on CMM by asking me about why I was finding him town, but then he kinda just dropped it and didn't express much explicit suspicion in 2481.

ok so ive been thinking about this little interaction a good amount

and im p sure i now think GL is town off it

originally it set off alarm bells for me and just felt like a weird reaction to have. but the thing is, this was preflipping a scum CMM. CMM was town

and i think it's just really awkward to jump in with this kinda contrived townread on a partner that will immediately become moot once the flip comes through? i just have a hard time seeing scum GL do that

[fireisredsir]

i want a psych eval too, the last one i got in this game was very insightful. ill do ur survey

[fireisredsir]

Spoiler: survey

"Get angry easily" = 1

"Take charge" = 1

"Make people feel welcome" = 4

"Like music" = 5

"Like to tidy up" = 2

"Like to visit new places" = 3

"Feel comfortable around people" = 1

"Interested in many things" = 4

"Love order and regularity" = 3

"Am afraid to draw attention to myself" = 5

"Enjoy being part of a large crowd" = 2

"Cheer people up" = 4

"Lose my temper" = 1

"Enjoy the beauty of nature" = 5

"Enjoy thinking about things" = 5

"Cheat to get ahead" = 2

"Feel desperate" = 4

"Rarely overindulge" = 3

"Easily resist temptations" = 2

"Have a high opinion of myself" = 1

"Waste my time" = 4

"Need a push to get started" = 5

"Have little to contribute" = 2

"Keep my cool" = 5

"Avoid crowds" = 2

"Turn my back on others" = 2

[fireisredsir]

Anyone have any particular parts of the game they think I should read? I'll probably do spot reads at random places, but I don't think I'd get much from reading everything.

imo look at how vp handled the d1 wagons

i think there's something there, probably

[fireisredsir]

i also want you to see if you agree with deas that vp and datisi feel unaligned

i think i played with datisi and vp before and they mentioned that it would be fun to be scum together because "imagine the theater"
maybe im misremembering

yes that is correct, that does factor in to the unaligned read. felt kinda one-sided to me, datisi wasn't putting much into the back and forth but vp was

[fireisredsir]

would dats fearkill ari? probably?

very yes but also i think he's town but also idk lol

[fireisredsir]

dannflor can you tell me what you think about the suspicions against you from day 1?

it is annoying to be treated with sarcasm and suspicion with every post i make and it has made me not really want to try that much

it is hard for me to root out what suspicions on me are genuine and what is not, everyone seems pretty tunneled

I had thought GL didn't seem genuine in the way he was interacting with me but I think it's pretty clear now that I'm being saved for a mis-elimination and I would think that generally scum might try to interact with my slot in a more curious way or might even town read me

maybe I should be more suspicious of Shea for town reading me

I'm probably the defacto elimination for today that's probably a good play

this attitude seems kinda weird to me bc i don't think anyone is really pushing you rn?

like yea there's frog. but frog is frog and frogs will frog

i kinda feel like town you would have some confidence in your ability to obvtown yourself here? there's not like. a major case or a tunnel that you need to outpost

this feels like the attitude of someone who replaced in to a slot that was super scummy and you know that people are just never gonna get over that. but I don't think that applies here cause eira barely posted at all

the reaction feels like... almost tmi on your own alignment lol. like you know that the people who suspect you are correct and so you feel resigned to your fate. i don't really get why you'd feel that way here as town

[fireisredsir]

redfire what are your reads rn?

prob most interested in looking for scum in dann, shea, SS, marci rn. a slight level below that would be xofelf and gamma

strongest TRs on ausuka, scamper, you. not quite as strong on datisi, hem, obscure, ydra, frog. then DV and GL are kinda weak townleans ig

i think thats everyone

[fireisredsir]

you’re very wrong fire

I’m sorry I don’t have the motivation to prove it right now

wrong that you aren't under much pressure right now? wrong that you would have confidence in your ability to show your towniness as town?

idk what you mean by im wrong

my point was that i don't really understand your mindset here if you're town and i don't think it really matches up with the current gamestate

so like... "you're wrong" doesn't really make sense to me as a response?

[fireisredsir]

I don’t have any scum reads I feel good about I’m so frustrated

ok, me neither. what about townreads?

[fireisredsir]

Fire can you go into your read on HEM

yea i just buy what he's saying mostly

when i played with scum HEM before his fake aggression came off as super fake to me. and he was playing a very positional game, always trying to push people, getting in 1v1s, creating presence, being a leader

here it feels like he is solving on his own terms and not being performative and it just feels a lot closer to what i remember from his town game. when he is reaching out to people it's to try to better his own solves and work together with his townreads to sort others, not to push an agenda

i don't agree with all of his takes but they feel right. the reactions to things make sense. nothing really has felt off to me

it's possible he's making the choice to play this game in a different style and go for the deepwolf route and he's probably worth another look later but for now im ok with trusting

[fireisredsir]

I think you’re right that normally I would see this as a challenge and be tryharding my ass off

I love replacing into “doomed” slots, it’s absolutely the most fun thing to do in this game

But I take that mindset regardless of alignment and right now I’m not in the right mindset so you trying to psychanalyze me is just going to be off base no matter what

I am just not in a good mindset right now

I will try to snap out of it and summon the motivation because I feel really bad that this is my level of play right now but I have 0 confidence in my ability to show my towniness in general right now for a number of reasons and I’m hoping if I just keep posting to post that eventually I’ll shake that off

Anyway this is probably not a productive line of discussion

i think it was useful for me at least, ty, helps to know more what thoughts were behind the things you were saying

this feels to me like a game that is winnable by townblocking so if finding scum is hard rn then maybe focus instead on examining people's reasons for townreading the consensus townreads and seeing if everything there checks out or if any of them should be re-examined

[fireisredsir]

I thought I was town reading Frogster but I’m getting the feeling I’m town reading their playstyle and I’m sure they don’t have trouble relocating their particular brand of uh posting. Idk I’ve never seen them play before you can give me the over under on that

frog is uhh interesting

i think if he's scum he's probably bussing here tbh so i don't mind letting him

i think he has some playstyle traits that are divergent but maybe has gotten better imitating most of them. so far seems more on the town side. i also think here he's been the most pro-town-wincon I've ever seen him be in any game that ive played or read. so that counts for something

[fireisredsir]

- agrees with me being suspicious of one single relly post i thought was awkward/forced sounding

i only have a few mins here but hm i thought that your general point here was p compelling about how vp's progression on irrel was strange, esp how he jumped to a major defense and called him very towny

BUT after going back to look at it i did not get that you were sus of irrel from 357, or that vp was agreeing with that in 426

i thought both posts were saying that i shouldn't be getting townread at that point

makes sense that yours wasn't given your later irrel suspicion but im p sure vp's was

ig im biased as an involved party here who probably reads more things to be about myself than is correct, maybe someone else can chime in

anyway originally liked the case and now im less sure on it. have some thoughts on shea's approach so far that im still pondering and will go into later

ok bye

[fireisredsir]

i dont have time to type reads really right now, but !! maybe after work but dont be hopeful!!
i was xonfused why u werent choosed for nk though bestie!! werent u hella townread!!

Ok I am slightly weirded out by both hem and Marci pushing the hem nk point because I did not pick up on this, like, at all and I understand hem might have a weird perspective about himself but idk why Marci would repeat it??

also thought this was weird

[fireisredsir]

it occurred to me overnight that there was mention of a previous game where he got caught fr being overly aggressive, and as there is some overlap between that game and this one its possible he was trying to avoid being caught on that same thing, but overcompensated by playing very passively instead.

this has been on my mind as well all game but idk it doesn't really feel to me like he's intentionally holding back and playing passively. like he's still high post count but he's just using those posts very differently

just feels to me like i can see the thoughts behind the posts for the most part and that's a good sign usually. the questions feel pointed and purposeful and he's still being proactive but not in a way that feels like it comes with an agenda to me

[fireisredsir]

@fireisredsir

what was your read on baltar throughout day 1?

in his response to my triangle, he said that his biggest pause on you is that you're reading him correctly. but ctrl+f'ing "baltar" and "vp" in your iso... i don't actually see a townread anywhere?

it's possible i'm missing something bc i'm a bit out of it rn so let me know if like. your read on him changed somewhere and i didn't see it

i did not ever tr him, idk where he got that from. closest was 557 ig? but that was like a half joking preflip anti-partner read. he was kinda always in my not-townread but not-top-scumread pile

i don't think i ever really said much about my read on him until eod bc i think im better at reading him when im not directly engaging with him and more observing

[fireisredsir]

VOTE: marci

[fireisredsir]

would probably vote any of {hem, something_smart,

fireisredsir

, obscure, tsq}

i think i'm interested in the bolded

hi it's me, the bolded

[fireisredsir]

i was starting to think dv might not be town but i kinda agree with almost all of his readlist

but then part of me wonders if the fact that scamper seems to have quite different reads is meaningful and maybe mine are wrong?

i think i am probably leaning town on too many people which is concerning. i don't like when that happens. i prefer to be leaning scum on too many people

[fireisredsir]

i was starting to think dv might not be town but i kinda agree with almost all of his readlist

what do you disagree with?

i don't have shea as strong of a town read. prob still a lean tho?

i don't really like the frog vote out of the poe given, i lean town on frog

i don't really townlean xofelf

the rest is p similar

[fireisredsir]

that's probably a good point

VOTE: something_smart

[fireisredsir]

Why do you lean town on shea?

i think his progressions feel genuine to me. i disagree kinda fundamentally with a lot of the ways he's viewing the game but that's more of a playstyle thing

one thing ive gone back and forth on was how in his entrance wall he seemed like he was almost trying to find reasons to be suspicious of me but then after like just a few posts of back and forth he suddenly had me as his single top townread. felt weird, bc i didn't think i was playing any differently than i had for the rest of the game prior? his reasoning was fine tho so idk. maybe it shows that he doesn't have an agenda and is willing to genuinely reassess things once he has some real time interaction

i actually just didn't really love the wall in general. but in a way it reminded me of a game that recently finished that i was spectating (some of you will know what im talking about), where a player replaced in d2 after a d1 where town had really successfully blocked up and created a good poe. and then this player kinda tore all of that apart in a hunt for a deepwolf, pushing against town consensus reads, and eventually resulting in a loss

and anyway the wall post kinda reminded me a lot of that while i was reading it. but then the conclusion was kinda different. he didn't scumread scamper in the end despite a lot of suspicion. he ended up townreading me. and when he made it to his readlist in 2686 i thought it was actually pretty good? i still don't love the push on obscure but he isn't making that a focus and maybe im wrong there, ig

and so i was really kinda struggling with interpreting this. bc on one hand this could mean that the wall didn't really mean much and he was willing to throw it out once he got into thread in order to appease the crowd and align himself more with consensus. and maybe that's scummy.

but part of me just wants to believe that he took a step back and saw where he was going wrong and didn't take over the day with horrible 1v1s that would distract and dominate conversation when that seems like it would have been the approach he was aiming for when he made the wall if he were scum

im not that confident bc he could just be good at scum but i believe him for now

[fireisredsir]

ok i can't read, ausuka was the single top townread, i was in the second section. same deal

[fireisredsir]

fire scum lolol

are you laughing at the people who think im scum or do you think im scum

[fireisredsir]

facts

[fireisredsir]

fire is scum clearly

why

[fireisredsir]

oh i forgot about that post

i kinda disagree just bc it felt like vp's isoing of conman and dann felt really kinda forced and awkward, in a way that it felt like he thought he needed to have an opinion on them in case they flipped

and vp town loves making dueling wagons on d1 of a large. vp scum loves to imitate vp town. but vp scum gets weird and awkward and dodgy when one of the people that he would normally be pushing for as one of the dueling wagons is actually scum (see ktane). vp scum also does not always vote the counter (again, see ktane, for a while it was me (town) vs mistyx (scum) as the leading wagons and he was pushing elsewhere)

and it kinda feels to me like he's actually hesitant to want to push for dueling wagons while also hard pushing the town counter to scum bc then he is basically creating a gamestate where he ends up looking suspicious off it

i don't think he would have had any issue pushing for dann/conman as the two leading wagons and playing the town leader and forcing everyone to give a stance on them if they were t/t

and i think that awkwardness could come from dann scum

[fireisredsir]

im now having a brief moment of worry where i try to remember why i townread datisi

[fireisredsir]

oh right baltar interactions

hmmmm i still believe that

[fireisredsir]

ik she put us all in the groupscum category but i kinda doubt ari really thought that me and dats and baltar were all scum together

that would have been so much fun and imo she would have been posting more about how she would be jealous to be missing out

only half joking here

[fireisredsir]

i'm going to step in here and tell u that u are wrong on datisi. i am incredibly confident he is town. i do not think u are scum and if u are town it is more productive for u to be able to focus ur time elsewhere rather than being tunneled on an incorrect answer

can you give your strongest reason or two, it would make me feel better

[fireisredsir]

fire is scum clearly

why

3410

go on

[fireisredsir]

i mean i didn't notice either

[fireisredsir]

serious answer is i think vp has a kind of short memory for games and doesn't really think about who caught him on what mistakes in previous situations

he just does his thing

[fireisredsir]

but also the dueling wagons thing isn't only as town. he does it as scum too. i think he just gets awkward about it when one of the people who he would normally be pushing for as one of the two wagons is actually a buddy

[fireisredsir]

do you wanna talk to the bolded or no

[fireisredsir]

idk you were interested, thought you might have something to talk about

i mentioned it, but i didn't really go into detail cause it didn't seem that important to do so at the time. it's also easier to pinpoint the issues knowing that he has actually flipped red

[fireisredsir]

oh i thought you meant that of that list you were most interesting in voting me lol

i see you meant you were interested in scamper's opinion

[fireisredsir]

was rereading vp in ktane to see how that went down and remembered that he pulled this kinda read on a buddy there

a read I keep avoiding going to the ISO well for. fuck if I know. I actually didn't mind his push on you. Still on my to-do list forever because I don't wanna

(see how he treats MT here and here)

it's also weird here bc it seemed like earlier he was pretty engaged with the irrel suspicion and talking about how he townreads there. so the way he talks about it here feels like it doesn't fit

hmm

[fireisredsir]

maybe scamper is right idk

scamper do you have any thoughts on my shea thoughts in terms of how he approached the day

i could kinda see it either way ig so maybe i shouldn't be townleaning for that

[fireisredsir]

oh yes ok he did it again

[fireisredsir]

i agree with datisi here but also like ??? i don't think it matters that much bc whether GL could correctly predict what scumtisi would do isn't that relevant to GL's alignment i think

im cool with the shea wagon

[fireisredsir]

I don't really remember refdire talking about VP doing the duel wagons thing. I think you could certainly read it as VP not wanting a wagon on Dann in case it were to go over Con.

If she didn't call that out then its pretty suspicious but I've been town reading her on ~vibez~

i didn't go into detail bc i was not feeling well that weekend but in one of the few posts i made i mentioned that i found his wagon treatment suspicious in 2264

and after the hammer the one person i was calling out as scum was baltar (plus a half joking but also kinda serious vote on irrel)

[fireisredsir]

hey

is datisi town

who should i vote

yes

SS or shea, maybe? or suggest an alternative

[fireisredsir]

fire is scum clearly

why

3410

go on

@marci

[fireisredsir]

i did notice in ktane a trend of scum vp calling people's very accurate readlists trash

[fireisredsir]

ok maybe not a trend there was just this post

Spoiler: from ktane

Subject: KTaNE [game over!]

HEAL: Frogsterking
HEAL: catboi
HEAL: Greeting
HEAL: StrangeMatter
HEAL: Andante
HEAL: Titus
HEAL: Dwlee99
HEAL: fireisredsir

I'm so far behind and catching up but lol wtf is this

criticizing what was basically a townread list that was 100% correct

[fireisredsir]

hey

is datisi town

who should i vote

yes

SS or shea, maybe? or suggest an alternative

This is a really strange place for you to be pushing considering you say you lean town on me. Why am I simultaneously lean town but one of the two people you are suggesting pushing? The only thing that changed since then was datisi voted for me and guiltylion said he didnt vibe with some of my stuff.

This feels incredibly opportunistic tbh. I haven't really thought any of the shade my slot has been getting has been scummy but this one is.

VOTE: Fire

?

at the time i said that, you had 4 votes, ss had 4 votes. those were the two leading wagons. next was DV with 2 (don't really love that wagon), and marci and frog with 1 (marci wagon is fine but eh). that's it

so those were the two main wagons. i would almost always answer the question of someone returning to the thread with "who should i vote" by letting them know who the main wagons were, even if i townlean one of them. if i felt really strongly that one was scum and one wasn't i might campaign for that one but that's a rare occasion at this point in the game

and also i wasn't really even townleaning you at that point. i found some vp interactions with irrel that i didn't like. i thought the points that nero was making on page 140 were decent and i was starting to doubt if my reasons to townlean you were actually good. at which point i said i was cool with the wagon in 3495

[fireisredsir]

feels kinda weird to me that shea's reaction to one of his top townreads suggesting someone else could vote for him is not to like... investigate why, or read my posts in which the way my opinion evolved is p clearly shown, but instead is to just vote me

[fireisredsir]

I did evaluate them.

ok, then why did you say that i still townleaned you and that "The only thing that changed since then was datisi voted for me and guiltylion said he didnt vibe with some of my stuff" when that is just clearly not true?

[fireisredsir]

and what supports that conclusion?

[fireisredsir]

I don't really want to get into a back and forth with fire about why I think her suggestion that me and ss were the good votes is disingenuous and opportunistic because I just had the fun experience of trying to convince gamma he's scum which was stupid so I'm going to learn my lesson and repeat it. I said what I think, you said what you think, people reading it can decide.

i think i am a p reasonable and understanding person and am currently having difficulty comprehending how you could come to the conclusion that you did based on what was said in the thread. it seems like you are clearly misrepresenting things in 3586. like what you said is just objectively not true

at first i thought you hadn't read the thread very closely but then you said that you did

the only conclusion remaining is that it was not something you actually thought through all the way, and you were just looking for something to appear like you had real opinions, or you were intentionally misrepresenting

so if you're town and you could explain more of your thought process it may help me realize that this was actually a real thought that you had that was based on something concrete if i can see where you're coming from. so far you've basically just said "no it's not" with no explanation

[fireisredsir]

ok i mean i don't think you're most likely to be the lim and idk how you could think thats the only possibility

there are multiple people who strongly believe you to be town

there's only 3 votes on you compared to 5 on ss

like why are you so set on yourself dying here

[fireisredsir]

...yes and the ss wagon has more momentum rn

it feels like again you're just making statements about things that aren't actually based in reality and then not taking any interest in backing them up and it's weird bc that's not really the kind of player you seemed to be when you first got here so im not sure where it's coming from

[fireisredsir]

can someone talk to me about the vpb/FB interactions, I thought they were towny but it seems like a lot of people disagree? And it's not super clear to me why people believe that was a distancing push. It's possible I missed or forgot about a post or two? But I think discussing it in real time will probs be more productive than going back and looking for an old post.

I tried just reading SS and like idk I don't think he's done anything AI yet

i thought GL's 3573 was a p good summary of things

one of the bigger things is that it feels like vp was attacking GL to draw his attention away from FB and kinda chainsaw while also kinda saying that GL should be voting FB (which he was, and which was his top scumread) which is just a weird interaction

[fireisredsir]

why would scum do this, namely. like if you're town and Shea is scum and knows you are town, what do you think they gain from this reaction?

i think finding a place to go aggressive and trying to attack a perceived weakness in someone is a valid goal for scum to have, both to try to get some footing in the game and look proactive (and not opportunistic, since it isn't going to contribute to an elim) while also not really spewing anything

but i didn't really come away from the interaction thinking he was definitely scum or anything, thats why i didn't ever vote there. i don't understand what he's talking about but sometimes town are hard to understand

[fireisredsir]

i think the fact that he just kinda gave up on it so easily, while at first it made me ??? and it felt kinda AtE-y in not a good way, after separating from it a bit it kinda makes me feel like maybe he didn't have the goals that he would have had if he were scum going for that move

but he could also just be low motivation as either alignment rn so idk

[fireisredsir]

i'm annoyed reading back that i made that post about hem asking if anyone had any actual good reason to townread him and the only response i got was from shea defending him and everyone else blew it off


and people were acting like i was crazy for saying the threadstate sucks and people aren't really communicating


so i reiterate again: if anyone has actual good reason to townread hem beyond him posting a lot, speak up, otherwise i want u to vote hem

i mean i responded in 3103 and i also had 2850 talking about it

but maybe those weren't good enough reasons to be worth responding to idk

don't really love what he's doing rn fwiw but im not really convinced by the reasons for why he's scum

[fireisredsir]

also i just realized there's a drop down i can use to select a name to ISO someone and i don't have to click the ISO button on their posts (which involves finding a post for some people, which isn't always easy)

g a m e c h a n g e r

you can also do it from the activity overview, thats what i always do

[fireisredsir]

ok maybe this is silly but i actually kinda like SS intervening there

UNVOTE:

[fireisredsir]

VOTE: Dann

[fireisredsir]

ok maybe this is silly but i actually kinda like SS intervening there

UNVOTE:

intervening in two presumably townies shit fighting is like "how to get town cred 101"

this is a weak reason to jump off and i feel like you absolutely know how weak it is "maybe this is silly"

so why even say it at all

bc until then id seen nothing that i thought was AI from SS so far and his latest posting feels like he actually cares about town winning the game

ik it's fakeable but i believe it anyway. im aware that this is the response people would give to me thinking that but i don't care, i believe it anyway

[fireisredsir]

i'm still looking at dan, but can i at least get some general thoughts on deas? it feels like they had pressure early but now whenever i bring up the name people completely ignore it and pivot, why?

ive mostly liked his posting when he is here and my main concern ig is that he isn't here very much

but that applies to several people

[fireisredsir]

i actually kinda believe dann here which makes this new wagon awkward

[fireisredsir]

ydra who do you think we should yeet

[fireisredsir]

alright fine i could be wrong i guess

VOTE: hem

[fireisredsir]

shea is probably town even though i think 90% of what he's saying is wrong

why do i keep having too many townreads

i hate it here