Mafia 98 - Apennine Mafia (Game Over)

[Kmd4390]

Hi. Who is scum?

[Kmd4390]

Cephrir and Mastin?

Oh, and I promise not to kill you this game, ok!?
I wanna be frenz againz!

But what if you are scum and I end up confirmed as a really strong power role? You'll wanna kill me then.

Vote Cephrir

[Kmd4390]

Why am I being asked to claim?

[Kmd4390]

Considering 3 people are asking, yes, I'm vanilla.

[Kmd4390]

OK thanks kmd - that was a "trap" (of Battle Mage's devising). This is a mountainous setup, so any non-vanilla claim is an insta-lynch. I would have felt dirty if it worked.

Thanks for the backup Kai and camn.

Nice.

[Kmd4390]

HI KMD!

Hey.

KMD...did you even read before voting Cephir?

Not yet. I've read from my first post to this line here. I'm just following Camn until I have enough to make my own decision.

Kai... how do we know she didn't notice? Is she town then?

she?!?

Using other people's arguments to suspect people...

Being so unhelpful you're not a good asset to town. You could hide forever behind this crappy attitude. Not willing to let that happen.

Vote SensFan

Do you think he is scum or just disagree with his playstyle?

That these Line by Line attack/rebuttal cases based on early Day 1 "slips" are not helpful in catching scum now, and not helpful looking back either.

I, for one, can't remember anyone EVER catching scum that way on day 1. .. though I admit it has maybe happened.

But I also admit, I am a very poor Day-1 player. My strength is endgame.

Um. How is scumhunting any less helpful Day 1 than later in the game? And how would you suggest playing? I've caught a few scum Day 1 this way before. VP can tell you about one of those.

What was the reasoning behind this? What do you feel about Mastin?

Camn said he was scum. About Mastin, I found it likely that a few of his votes were based on playstyle rather than actually being scummy. Ceph was a better vote on no information.

Lol wtf just happened…this was the weirdest bunch of events. We are all vanilla, except for scum…Everyone will claim VT…*sigh*

They were hoping I was scum who was about to slip up because I replaced in not knowing anything that had happened yet and could possibly fakeclaim a power role as scum. Nobody did anything wrong. I'd have done the same thing in their position.

Lol that’s fine and all. But listing 4 people and saying “one of these 4 is scum” is so arbitrary. I guarantee I could run a randomizer on the people in this game, totally indiscriminate, pull out four people and have just as much confidence in claiming “one of these 4 is scum”.

I was considering doing this in a game.

---------------------

So, these past few pages give me something to work with. I now know that I DON'T like alex or GIEFF. I DO like Sens, Camn, and Benmage.

Unvote, Vote GIEFF

[Kmd4390]

Do you think he is scum or just disagree with his playstyle?

I'm not sure but I'm confortable with voting him until he plays. He is most unhelpful and may hide behind his null play attitude the whole game.

k, your vote is scummy then.

So, these past few pages give me something to work with. I now know that I DON'T like alex or GIEFF. I DO like Sens, Camn, and Benmage.

why? why? why? why? and... oh... whY?

I have nothing more to say than what I have already.

Unvote, Vote GIEFF

errr... you probably know what I'm goint to ask you...
it starts with W, then H, then Y... then and exclamation mark...

^See above.

Also, @KMD... I don't have very good Day1 strategy, as I have mentioned... and I am not against scumhunting. I just am not sure that verbose, line-by-line arguments are a useful way to do it.

Fair enough. It's the way I play, but I can understand not wanting to play the same way.

Camn... quit acting like a child... if you're town... you're being most unhelpful with ridiculous questions...

um...what?

So, these past few pages give me something to work with. I now know that I DON'T like alex or GIEFF. I DO like Sens, Camn, and Benmage.

No WAY KMD!! You have to assume I’m scum….am I growing on you??

For the first time ever, I have a town read on you. Must be learning how you play or something. Not completely sure TBH.

Were you scum in either of the two games in which you grudgekilled kmd?

FoS camn

I think I have to explain our violent history. We played a game (Tranquility) before where I was sure she was scum. She wasn't. Next game we played together (Night Watch), I found myself dead on N0. Camn was the scum who killed me. So I figure it's kinda funny that she killed me just for revenge. I join another game (Medieval) that she's in and she vidges me. I was scum there. Another game (Zazie-modded), she replaces in during Night and I end up dead. That time though, she was actually town. Just coincidence that I died as soon as she came in. So then we come to Spy-modded, which was a playerlist determined by the players where I invited her to play. We were both scum, but on opposing groups. I tried to kill her N1, but her buddy RB'd me. On Night 3, we crosskilled, giving the game to town. So now I join here and she's saying she isn't going to kill me because the only killing roles are scum, which obviously if she's scum, she won't admit it. But I can almost guarantee that if she's scum, I WILL be NK'd in this game. I know if I was scum, Camn wouldn't be living past today. Damn, that was longer than I thought it would be.

And I don't consider 'lynching' 'killing'.

If so, than saying "I promise not to

kill

you this game" looks a lot like a scumslip to me.

Not seeing this.

My comment to KMD is an ongoing conversation between us. The fact that you see it as a scumslip is just a byproduct of your tunnel-vision regarding me. It is no more scummy than me 'buddying' was. . . but you seem to want ANYTHING I do or say to be scummy, regardless of any kind of rational, logical analysis.

[:oops:] Wasn't buddying one of my biggest points against you in tranquility? [/:oops:]

KMD, BM, camn, Sens all seem to understand each other. You really think its because we're all Scum, as opposed to the fact we all have enough experience to see that none of us are being scummy?

I've actually never finished a game with BM before. But yeah, I definitely have experience with you and Camn.

[Kmd4390]

Yeah, Camn obviously always buddies.

And I can't open the link. My computer sucks.

[Kmd4390]

I blame not knowing any of you guys. And 1 hours sleep last night.

I slept for about 4 hours this morning.

[Kmd4390]

I blame not knowing any of you guys. And 1 hours sleep last night.

I slept for about 4 hours this morning.

ok, let's go sleep now, come back tomorrow, and re-assess the entire game, k?

BM

Can't. I'm working from 10AM to 4PM and from 6PM to 11PM tomorrow. Maybe when I get home though. Or maybe I can come home in between. I live a half an hour away from work.

[Kmd4390]

Jammer, Kairyuu, Spy, Alex, Camn, and BM: Who are you suspicious of other than the person you are voting?

Ceph, who are you suspicious of?

----------------

My second suspect is alexhans FTR.

[Kmd4390]

Actively and genuinely scumhunting is townie. Not scumhunting at all is scummy.

[Kmd4390]

It's more that it sets them up to take on any opinion they want. I never find remaining consistent as a problem as scum.

[Kmd4390]

Which is it?

He's BSing a case to see if anyone will follow it.

[Kmd4390]

The use of the word "OMGUS" is irrelevant. I ask you again because I think your vote was OMGUS, no matter what you claim.

So you keep asking, knowing her opinion and not being willing to change your own? How does that make sense unless you are trying to make sure everyone else sees the vote as OMGUS?

No, I am pointing out behavior that I think is scummy, and explaining why I think it's scummy. If you don't agree with me, tell me why, or even better, let camn do it. Just saying "That case is BS" helps nothing. What if camn is scum?

Well, my read on you is obviously scum to begin with. You don't seem to actually believe your case and you are repeating the same thing AFTER SHE ANSWERS just to get the points, that are crap to begin with, across. You are trying to push this probable mislynch.

Totally.
And to think.. I joined this game cuz I wanted to play with him again!

Appeal to emotion.

Unrelated throwaway comment that can be seen as buddying. Camn does this. One of the things I like about playing with her. She makes games fun. (That's the reason

I

joined this game. )

[Kmd4390]

You said:

@ Alex... I theorize that OMGUS is, if anything, a town-tell. Townies get mad when people call them scummy. Scum get scared.

@ Alex... I theorize that OMGUS is, if anything, a town-tell. Townies get mad when people call them scummy. Scum get scared.

But then again, I don't believe in town-tells, so I call it null.

Remember this ???

You even went so far as to edit out the part of my quote that mentioned your over-reaction.

Yeah, I'm happy with my vote.

[Kmd4390]

I think he is trying the KMD GAMBIT... but I am the only person in the history of MS.NET dumb enough to actually fall for it....

HAHAHA.

no.

Although that "Gambit" brought me to my favorite tool in catching scum which has been pretty successful and once caught an entire scumteam. Unfortunately, it doesn't work until someone is confirmed town which we saw when Stef was scum in tranquility.

One of these days you'll see it work.

Oh and post 398 is so bad it hurts.

[Kmd4390]

You said:

@ Alex... I theorize that OMGUS is, if anything, a town-tell. Townies get mad when people call them scummy. Scum get scared.

@ Alex... I theorize that OMGUS is, if anything, a town-tell. Townies get mad when people call them scummy. Scum get scared.

But then again, I don't believe in town-tells, so I call it null.

Remember this ???

You even went so far as to edit out the part of my quote that mentioned your over-reaction.

Is that supposed to demonstrate hypocrisy? It does not.

Actually, it does.

I didn't copy that part of your quote because it wasn't relevant. All that was relevant to make my point was the fact that you said getting angry is something townies do.

It was relevent. She said she didn't believe in towntells. Basically nullifies what you are making a point on.

Yeah, I'm happy with my vote.

Care to provide any reasoning from BEFORE you voted me? Or is your role "vanilla townie who can predict GIEFF's future posts?"

Gut.

Maybe he is a Red Sox fan.

/WIN!!

[Kmd4390]

Tell me why my post is bad. Tell me why my case is bad. Tell me why you voted for me. Do ANYTHING remotely pro-town.

I prefer not to go point-by-point to defend someone, but since you asked:

camn, picking one part out of my post and claiming it is wrong does not negate the larger point I am making. You can't deny that your focus has been more toward being viewed as town than as finding scum because you have spent almost no effort finding scum.

You took out the part of her post that would invalidate your argument. And this comes AFTER you attacked someone else for apparently doing the same thing. First, scummy. Second, hypocritical and scummy.

1. No, I don't think you are faking being annoyed at me. I do think that a very plausible explanation for your over-reaction is that it looks townie to get angry, and you had done zero scumhunting up to that point, so it at least gave you a non-random vote. I can see either town or scum doing this, as it serves both aligments' interests. But it is a GREATER concern of scum, and that is the issue.

What the hell. Ok, so you think she's really annoyed with you (not faking), but you said earlier that she is trying to respond how a townie would, which would imply that her reaction is fake. Contradict much?

Next, you say either town or scum could do it, but because scum could, she's scum. Well why scum and not town if you can see it from town. Hell, if you think it's "GREATER concern" for scum, why even MENTION that it could come from town?

2. It doesn't matter what YOU believe. It matters what you think others believe, or are trying to get them to believe. You are post-facto explaining your behavior as, if anything, a town-tell. Just because YOU call it null doesn't mean others will.

This applies to the way you are pushing this case. You just want everyone else to see it, think "hey that's a lot of words" and agree with you like so many people decide to do. I don't like it.

3. I am not misrepping you, and I am not ignoring reality. Are you really claiming that your statement about OMGUS was NOT meant to make yourself look townie? That is demonstrably false. LYING about trying to look townie is a lot worse than trying to look townie.

Yes, you are misrepping. Camn has never been one to see OMGUS as a scumtell as far as I can remember. If you think she's scum here, she must have been scum in completed games where she was town too. Oh wait. Kind of impossible.

1. You were trying to say that you are not scummy.
2. You did not deny OMGUS.

1. Isn't that called a defense? Wouldn't it have been scummy if she didn't defend herself?
2. Why would she?

Yet when I make the claim that you are trying hard to be seen as not scummy, you fight it tooth and nail. When I make the claim that your vote was OMGUS, you fight it tooth and nail. Why?

You are scummy for pushing this the way you are. What is wrong with "fighting tooth and nail", as you put it, when someone is scummy?

[Kmd4390]

I didn't copy that part of your quote because it wasn't relevant. All that was relevant to make my point was the fact that you said getting angry is something townies do.

It was relevent. She said she didn't believe in towntells. Basically nullifies what you are making a point on.

Maybe this is why you think my posts are bad - you don't understand them.

My point: camn is acting in a way she thinks others will perceive as pro-town. In what way does camn claiming she doesn't believe in towntells nullify that?

Because she wasn't calling it a towntell which would be needed for your arguement to hold.

In response to an accusation of OMGUS, she doesn't deny it - she explains how it should NOT be viewed as scummy. What she HERSELF thinks is not relevant, obviously. She is not the one she is trying to convince of not being scum.

If she doesn't see it as a scumtell, and she acknowledges that she did it, why should she not state that as a defense?

Do you see how silly it is to take one omission in one quote that is not at all relevant to the above point, just argue against that, and ignore everything else?

No.

Kmd, how sure are you that camn is town, percentage-wise?

Well, considering random odds for someone to be town are generally between 67-75%, I'd say about 85-90%. Why are you asking?

And PLEASE LYNCH ME!!!!!
PLEASE!
DO IT NOW!!!

I want to die right now just so the world will see how flawed your so-called "scumhunting" is.

Oh, and you ignored my logical proof that you actually think I am town. Whats up with that?

Can't we just lynch GIEFF now instead? I think that would be a bit more productive.

[Kmd4390]

It did not invalidate my argument. It was irrelevant to my point, in fact.

I disagree.

All that is relevant about camn's behavior is that she is trying to be perceived as town. Alex accused her of OMGUS, and she said "townies get mad," post-facto calling herself a townie for her own outburst. Do you deny this? It is scummy that she does it in such a roundabout way. If she just said "Yes I got angry, but that's not scummy" it would not be scummy. Rather than address alex directly, she danced around it, is now pretending alex wasn't accusing her of anything, and that her response was not meant in any way to lessen suspicion of camn. What pro-town reason is there to go about defending yourself in such a circuitous way?

The last line of this can be answered the same way Camn ALREADY ANSWERED IT. Some townies get annoyed/angry/frustrated when being called scum.

This is my point:

Scum want to be perceived as town. Town want to be perceived as town, but also want to find scum. So wanting to be perceived as town is ONLY a scumtell if someone is doing it a LOT more than they are trying to find scum. And this fits camn perfectly.

I actually think that, comparatively, Camn is playing how I've seen her play as town. Like she said, she's a better late-game player than Day 1 player.

I am not misrepping. If you read the context, her charge of "misrepping" was due to me claiming she was faking being annoyed (which I did not do), as well as claiming that because she said she doesn't believe in town tells, it means she was NOT trying to paint herself in a pro-town light.

It is as clear as day that camn was DEFENDING herself in her response to alex. As clear as day. There is no misrep.

So you don't think the OMGUS was scummy and you don't think she was trying to act how she thinks townies act?

You pull things out of context, and miss the point. The POINT is that she reacted ONE way to alex's accusation of OMGUS, and another way to my accusation of OMGUS. As I said immediately after this, and as YOU stripped out of the quote:

So what are you suggesting? She is scum with alex and it was only distancing, but then she got worried when you, a townie, called her out?

Actually, what is your opinion of alexhans?

[Kmd4390]

GIEFF, if you are suggesting that I come into a game expecting Camn to be town, you don't understand our history at all. If she slips up, I'll gladly jump up and attack. Unfortunately, so far, I think she is town.

[Kmd4390]

KMD has contributed very little scumhunting. I don't like his vote on me, and retro-active attempt to justify it. I didn't like his adamant defense of you, and his assumption that my case was crap before he knew what it was, but as he doesn't appear to be the only one to think my case sucks, that's not as big a deal.

How have I not scumhunted? I've already caught you and alexhans.

What is wrong with my vote on you?

I defended Camn because I think she is town, I think you are scum, and I didn't like the case.

Why do you think I didn't know the case? I knew what it was. I just happened to disagree with it.

Plus, although we like each other, both of us would be very happy to see the other dead... so I would guess his reads are as unbiased as one can expect.

This is pretty accurate here.

Unless, of course, you are implying that we are scumbuddies. Are you?

Heh, that would be fun.

I am not implying you are scumbuddies, unless KMD starts making quote pyramids.

Bad argument like it was there. I was town in that game and so was Empking.

(That's the reason

I

joined this game. )

Didn’t you just go on a tangent of you two vengefully killing eachother… O.o …

Yep. Just cuz killing each other is fun doesn't mean playing together isn't.

I can’t read this Gieff vs Camn/KmD conflict anymore. It rivals BM vs Alex in fluff/uselessness/and has totally derailed any direction for the day. It also makes catching up in this game less favorable than slamming ones head in to the wall. Regardless I still think a Mastin lynch is best thus far. I really wish he wasn’t only on page 3…*sigh*

How is it distracting? I think it has added a lot to the game.

If you gave initial context it wouldn't have been an omgus-vote/seemed scummy/made you look like a bad player. I don't know if the wiki offers a handbook or something, but I'd suggest playing some more newbie games, they may be more fitting.

Ouch!

[Kmd4390]

Don’t worry Camn, ask KmD or Kairyuu, first we fight. Than it gets tiresome,

we become best friends, and KmD realizes I am always town.

then I decide to be a dick to someone else instead for no reason.

^Fix'd.

How is it distracting? I think it has added a lot to the game.

It seemed like a ton of back and forth, in which I couldn’t even decipher the main points. Then you hopped into the madness. If you want to bullet it for me so I can grasp the main points. All I understood was what Senfans bulleted.[/quote]

I'll get to this when I feel less lazy.

Why did you feel the need to intervene here, Kmd?

I can't open the link, but I'll assume it's my defense of Camn. GIEFF's case was such crap that I wasn't going to let him push it the way he was. That and my initial scum read on GIEFF and town read on Camn.

[Kmd4390]

@Gieff, please insert a third option.
1) you are mafia.
2) you are town.
3) ?

Heh, if this weren't a game with no power roles, I'd be thinking this was an awesome Gambit for a lie detector role. (Ok, there are better things to trick someone into saying, but still.)

[Kmd4390]

A vote with no backing is called what?

It's not called OMGUS. Read more.

Ok...what is a vote with no backing called??

I like to call it "a vote with no backing".

OMGUS is technically voting for someone because they voted for you. Although if someone suspected you, but didn't vote, and you vote them for suspecting you, it can be called OMGUS too.

[Kmd4390]

Camn, why is GIEFF town?

Black, that's a lot of town reads and not very many scum reads..

[Kmd4390]

It almost looks like... reverse-OMGUS.. If that's even possible. "You're town for suspecting me". What exactly do you mean by A? What makes him a "true believer"?

[Kmd4390]

Do you think he is scum or just disagree with his playstyle?

I'm not sure but I'm confortable with voting him until he plays. He is most unhelpful and may hide behind his null play attitude the whole game.

k, your vote is scummy then.

No. It's not. I have my reasons and I have given them. I'm just not sure enough to call him scum.

Voting for ANYONE other than a player who you think is scum, is scummy.

Thanks for the wifom KMD. REALLY anti-town.

What is anti-town about WIFOM? I'm getting so sick of repeating this in every single game I play.

Well, my read on you is obviously scum to begin with. You don't seem to actually believe your case and you are repeating the same thing AFTER SHE ANSWERS just to get the points, that are crap to begin with, across. You are trying to push this probable mislynch.

hey... calling cases crap is NEVER a good defense... you should know that by now... Was it necesary to add the words probable mislynch?

If I feel a case is crap, I see no reason not to call it that. And yes, I added that because that's what I think it would be if we were to lynch Camn. A mislynch.

Yeah... right. Lynch the most active and inquisitive player... Are you scum again KMD?

Because scum are never active and inquisitive, right?

How have I not scumhunted? I've already caught you and alexhans.

lol. You still need to make up a reason to so you can make-believe I'm scum sweet Mr.Holmes...

I prefer to lynch GIEFF first. I'll come to you tomorrow.

[Kmd4390]

He is scummy IMO... I just didn't know if he was scum or if I was going for the wrong tells.

What happened to not thinking he was scum? >.<

A bit of wifom is not bad... but extreme and unnecesary WIFOM leads to confusion and chaos.

But I can almost guarantee that if she's scum, I WILL be NK'd in this game. I know if I was scum, Camn wouldn't be living past today.

What's the point of this... you're predicting the future with what purpose? If you're not nightkilled you're presumably leading us to believe that she is town... but then, you could assume that scum might kill you... to set up camn... unless you were scum... and if she died it should tell us that you're scum... Of course... after having said this... as scum, you wouldn't kill her... or would you? WIFOM... Sucks... and it was totally unnecesary.

Nobody is going to seriously lynch Camn or myself if the other turns up dead. Not unless there is more of a case.

Because scum are never active and inquisitive, right?

They sure can be... but at this point you have done nothing but buddy up to Camn and call GIEFF's case crap. There's no logic involved there.

Thanks for not reading my posts..

Tell me TODAY why will you come for me tomorrow.

Why? That could distract us from lynching GIEFF.

[Kmd4390]

Why? That could distract us from lynching GIEFF.

Because I don't want to give you time to make BS up. That's why. If you have something now. You should say it now.

What if I don't have anything now?

Nobody is going to seriously lynch Camn or myself if the other turns up dead. Not unless there is more of a case.

Woah, let's not jump the gun.

You really think that based on my statement, one of us will die and the other will definitely be lynched based on it tomorrow? I don't see it happening.

[Kmd4390]

GIEFF, do you think that Camn and I are scum together?

[Kmd4390]

You are so sure camn is town that you don't apply scumtells to her - this is scummy no matter camn's alignment. As is voting for me for no reason, and then using things that happen AFTER your vote to justify it.

Actually, knowing Camn's meta, things that you are calling scumtells are things that I have seen Camn do as town. I've even called her scum for most of the same reasons before. And I've always been wrong (except in Spy's Mini Normal). And is it my fault you did things later to reinforce my opinion on you?

Voting for ANYONE other than a player who you think is scum, is scummy.

This is totally untrue, and I disagree with it utterly.
E.G., policy lynches., voting no-lynch, clarity-lynches, revenge lynches, pressure votes, lurkerlynching.

While I disagree with policy lynching and revenge lurking, and even lurkerlynching depending on the situation, I guess I see your point. I just don't think Sens exactly qualifies as any of these things.

[Kmd4390]

I didn't give reasons yet at the time because I was just starting out and wasn't looking to convince anyone yet.

[Kmd4390]

I didn't give reasons yet at the time because I was just starting out and wasn't looking to convince anyone yet.

OK, well since then you have blindly defended camn (although she has performed behvaior you claim is scummy), said you are happy with your vote for me (because you think I was being hypocritical when I was not), said my case is crap (when you did not understand it), but still haven't given any reasons. Time to take the training wheels off - give some reasons. They don't even have to be good ones. I'm tired of people voting me for no reason.

And I'm tired of Battle Mage ignoring my post 378.

Know what I'm tired of? The blatant misrep that I apparently didn't understand the case. I've already said that I understood it, but happened to disagree. I went point-by-point to show why I disagree. And I didn't say Camn is scummy. I said she does things that would be scummy if it was anyone else (appearing not to scumhunt, going all-out against lurkers, buddying, etc). And if you think my vote on you is 100% based on you being hypocritical, you really haven't read my posts. TBH, I forgot about that until you mentioned it just now. You want to know why I'm voting you? As soon as I came in, my gut said you were scum. That's how I play. I voted based on that and you haven't done anything to convince me that I'm wrong.

Alex isnt even worth discussing at this point.

Why?

What if I don't have anything now?

Then there's no reason for your apparent suspicions on me. Why would you go for me tomorrow if you have no reason to think I'm scum?
Translation: It's scummy.

I can go back and find the reasons when I want to make a case.

No... I don't know what to think anymore. You've just opened a justification for everything to happen without being able to get leads from it. That's what WIFOM might cause.

If that's your argument, I just did the town a favor.

KMD... you think it's GIEFF and me together?

Yep.

KMD: From your experience...
What are Camn's town tells and what are her scum tells in general?

Um. I don't really know. She was scum in the last game I played with her, but I can't really think of anything she did differently. Let me go back and see why I ended up suspecting her there.

Ok, here is my initial post in THAT GAME saying why I suspected her:

Camn... Hmm. Camn. I was thinking about her play last night. It doesn't seem like her. Not as active. Not as ridiculously protown. Not as hard on lurkers. She did make her early "reads on everyone aka who is lurking" post. I always want to call her out for buddying up, but I've seen her do it way too many times as town, so I can ignore that. She layed a lazy vote on Myko and never really came back to that. She's said she suspects me, but not really why. She's put out weak attacks on VP and Llama. She said Llama needed scrutinty, but didn't really give any around the time she said it.

This really has me interested here:

Though I would LOVE to put SOMEBODY at L-1.. I don't really get scum from VP right now.
In fact, it would not surprise me at all to see VP, KMD, and Llama ALL be town...

I really am thinking NOW, that Mykonian, Zazie, and maybe Plum need some more pressure... but I understand that the deadline is going to be on top of us really soon.

She sets herself up to look good pretty much no matter who is lynched by saying she wouldn't be surprised to see VP, Llama, and myself all be town. Three players who SHE SUSPECTED until this post. And she's even come back to suspecting Llama.

Another thing about that post is who she names as scum. Two of those players have flipped town. The other, Myko, is someone who I think is town. Camn, what made you suspect Plum, Zazie, and Myko? Are you still suspicious of Myko? Hell, what had you suspicious of Llama, VP, and myself? What made you change your mind? And now, why are you back on Llama?

I'll mention that I was also scum in that game, but afat and I had assumed there was a second scum group, so my scumhunting attempts were genuine there.

While I disagree with policy lynching and revenge lurking, and even lurkerlynching depending on the situation, I guess I see your point.

I just don't think Sens exactly qualifies as any of these things.

ohhh... changing your mind now? First you speak in general to use it against me but now... you wiggle around it so you agree with Camn and still see me as scummy?

See the bolded. I agree with Camn in general, but not in this specific situation.

Because you do. Don't pretend it isn't the case. I figured that was the main benefit to inviting half the playerlist here-they all have some kind of association to you.

I did it to have an interesting game. Not so they wouldn't suspect me if I was scum...

Wait, there are people here who you invited to play? Just out of curiosity, who?

The whole buddying thing is losing strenght... Yeah, I'm buddying GIEFF and mastin according to everyone. Camn and KMD buddie themselves. KMD buddies SensFan. Sensfan buddies KMD, Camn and BM. Zach has buddied BM IIRC. Now BM buddies GIEFF.

I can see why you'd say I've buddied with Camn, but why Sens? Because I don't like your vote on him?

BM voted GIEFF even though he said that at least one fo Mastin and I were town.

Wait, am I missing something here? Why do you and Mastin have to be scum for GIEFF to be scum?

Battle Mage - who is in the buddy brigade?

it looks like:

Alex, Mastin, Hasdgfas, VP Baltar, Kairyuu

maybe: Debonair and Camn

The last 2 can confirm or deny knowing Alex before the game.

Perhaps more members lurk in the wings. Haha, this is like mafia within mafia.

BM

If the buddy brigade is people who knew Alex before the game, I'm part of it. I IC'd a newb game that Alex played. And I saw him again in Mafia 91. And I played in the Zwet game that Alex modded in Mish Mash.

[Kmd4390]

My scumhunting was genuine in that game, too. . . We knew there were two groups.
2-scumgroup games twist scum meta.

Well it's why I thought you were scum and.. you were. =/

KMD, I am shocked to see that your points about camn in the game you linked seem quite similar to my own.

1. Not as hard on lurkers.
2. Not as ridiculously pro-town.
3. Changing her mind rapidly on who she suspects.
4. Setting herself up to look protown.
5. "Lazy" votes that she doesn't come back to.
6. Suspecting people without really saying why.

*lurkers-lately, she just isn't.
*not ridiculously protown- why?
*changing her mind rapidly- where?
*setting herself up-where?
*lazy votes-where?
*suspecting people without giving reasons-where?

Do you disagree that a large number of the points you used to catch camn-scum in that game apply to this game? Even if just 2 or 3 of them apply, shouldn't that be enough to move camn out of your "obvtown" list?

No, because my read on her is town.

Also, I never said you voted for me because I was hypocritical. I said you were HAPPY with your vote for me because I was hypocritical.

Ok. This is true then.

I just wanted to be clear that your vote with me is without reason. So when people demanding reasoning from others IGNORE your vote, then THEY are the ones being inconsistent.

I've given plenty of reasons. Here, let me view myself in ISO and summarize what I've given:
-gut read
-stretched Camn's promise not to kill me by twisting her words to say she wouldn't lynch me
-kept asking about Camn's OMGUS with no intention of changing his opinion or any expectations that she'd change her answer
-pushing points JUST to make sure people see them
-Calls out appeal to emotion where it isn't there
-hypocracy
-crap case in post 398
-misrepping me by saying I don't understand the case
-bad argument about quote pyramids

[Kmd4390]

I'll let Camn respond to that herself.

[Kmd4390]

I don't read KMD as thinking withholding reasons is scummy.. but more that NOT HAVING REASONS AT ALL is scummy, no?

Witholding reasons is fine as long as they come out eventually.

ALSO.. I don't think forming a NON random vote in the RVS is "lazy", do you KMD?

Nope. I try to lay a serious vote as early as possible.

[Kmd4390]

So, it seems Bnmage's quotes really are NOT answers to your questions.. right KMD?

They don't seem to be.

My initial reasoning on GIEFF STILL STANDS. I think he is probably too dangerous to have in endgame.

Don't you think he is town though? What was the initial reasoning?

[Kmd4390]

You do “confirm” the vote on Gieff later. Which is good, but in my opinion that confirmation vote had weak reasoning in itself, but I left that out because it didn’t really relate to what I was pointing out for KmD.

Are you saying you intentionally left it out to prove your point?

@KMD:

Initially it was that his scum-game was too good to let him live.
Now, additionally, it is that his TOWN-game is too POOR for him to be reliable in endgame.

I wouldn't lynch him for either reason.

Essentially, I wold rather lynch a 70%townie that I think will mislynch in ENDGAME, than a 60%townie that I think will vote correct.

That's fair.

[Kmd4390]

GIEFF:
Again, your sufficient-er case on Camn looks more like Camn being Camn more than Camn being scum.

You've done everything in my case. If you feel otherwise, say so. I'll show you where it was.

Yes, I know most of that came after my vote. Does that make it less scummy?

Yeah, I put the quote pyramid thing on there as a joke. XD

[Kmd4390]

You do “confirm” the vote on Gieff later. Which is good, but in my opinion that confirmation vote had weak reasoning in itself, but I left that out because it didn’t really relate to what I was pointing out for KmD.

Are you saying you intentionally left it out to prove your point?

No, because it wasn't related to the question at hand. Wherein I was merely illustrating a history of examples of lazy/poor votes or whatever it was that gieff stated.

But you were aware of later backing which makes the vote you quoted less lazy/poor.

[Kmd4390]

Objectively, I would think (via the KMD Gambit) that scum would jump on a crap-case on a townie...... especially if it was presented well... so I could be scum.
Of course, if YOU are scum, and part of a 2-man team.. then that obviously WOULDN'T happen.

Actually, they'd jump on the Mastin wagon.

@KMD

I wouldn't lynch him for either reason.

Ah, but I

WOULD

That is what make me fun!

Can't argue with that logic.

But you were aware of later backing which makes the vote you quoted less lazy/poor.

You mean future backing?

Regardless it is one of several examples. In addition I was giving her the benefit of the doubt in that case. Because Although she returns to it, and "re-affirms her vote" giving a reason.. The reason is so shitty that you could add 'crap-cases' to the list of lazy/poor votes.

Yeah, that would be what I said.

There is a huge difference between a crap case and a lazy vote. You are changing which you call it just because I am now aware of the situation.

[Kmd4390]

ATTENTION TOWN: WE'RE NOT LYNCHING CAMN TODAY.

Works for me. I refuse to vote Camn today unless something pretty much proves she is scum, which I don't see happening, especially in an all vanilla game.

Unvote, Vote Alexhans

[Kmd4390]

ATTENTION TOWN: WE'RE NOT LYNCHING CAMN TODAY.

More votes on people who are actually scum: Alex, Mastin or Bowel Movements.

I'll address the rest of this crap later.

Ooh, if only i had your aptitude with acronyms, you...Virgin Prick.

BM

What a Brilliant Man.

[Kmd4390]

ATTENTION TOWN: WE'RE NOT LYNCHING CAMN TODAY.

Works for me. I refuse to vote Camn today unless something pretty much proves she is scum, which I don't see happening, especially in an all vanilla game.

Unvote, Vote Alexhans

why so adamant that Camn is town?

BM

Mostly because there is no strong case against her and she seems to be getting attacked for being Camn, not being scum. And my initial gut read on her was town to begin with.

[Kmd4390]

Is there a person in the game besides alex who is NOT against a Mastin lynch?

Not my favorite lynch, but I'd support it over a lynch of about half the players in the game.

[Kmd4390]

As I said, KMD.

Please try again with fresh eyes tomorrow. Don't start defending her like crazy until you read, digest, think, and decide for yourself.

I've read from the point I came in. I thought about what I read. I decided I still think she's town.

[Kmd4390]

People I'd lynch before Mastin:
alexhans
GIEFF
blackcatcontract (replacing Kairyuu)

People I may or may not lynch before Mastin:
Debonair Danny DiPietro
Cephrir
jammer

People I wouldn't lynch before Mastin:
Everyone else.

[Kmd4390]

ATTENTION TOWN: WE'RE NOT LYNCHING CAMN TODAY.

Works for me. I refuse to vote Camn today unless something pretty much proves she is scum, which I don't see happening, especially in an all vanilla game.

Unvote, Vote Alexhans

why so adamant that Camn is town?

BM

Mostly because there is no strong case against her and she seems to be getting attacked for being Camn, not being scum. And my initial gut read on her was town to begin with.

She's self voting. She lacks confidence in her own ability to argue. She has dramatic changes of stance that i havent seen from her before as town.

BM

She's self-voting because she gave her vote to Benmage. The fact that she kept this up after he voted her only makes her more town IMO.

[Kmd4390]

KMD, I don't want to get dragged back into a camn-quote-war.

But are you really arguing that tying your vote to a player you find scummy and self-voting is PRO-TOWN?

No. Not protown. But a town tell.

Benmage voting Camn with the proxy is a towntell from my PoV.

BM

I agree.

pah, VP is probably town, according to meta. He was absolutely abysmal in Mafia 91-not even pretending to scumhunt. In a game of his as town, he played quite alot like he is here-analysing in depth, and not attempting to appease people, or make silly jokes.

So Re

Vote: Camn

BM

He was pretty good scum in a newbie game I IC'd.. I caught his IC-scumbuddy Day 1 and thought he (VP) was obvtown.

Unvote, Vote Mastin

because it's become an "either Mastin or Camn" kind of situation here.

[Kmd4390]

Let's just lynch Mastin and end this day.

[Kmd4390]

Btw, BM, why can't Mastin and Alex be scum together?

[Kmd4390]

@Spryex, jammer, zach, sensfan, battle mage, and kmd

How do you guys feel about lynching Gieff today? You've all previously voted him.

I'd be fine with it, but the day needs to end and Mastin actually has votes.

@KMD: I fail to see why you would agree with your top suspect to lynch the other suspect... Do you think GIEFF is bussing me?

He might be bussing. Not sure. But on Day 1 with no flips, I lynch for scumminess over connections.

[Kmd4390]

Christ, guys. Stop spamming this thread, and let's agree on a fucking lynch.

Mastin or Alex should be lynched.
Jammer and Benmage lynches would be fine as well.
People who aren't named's lynch wouldn't affect this game, since they aren't posting. They probably shouldn't be lynched, but its better than nothing.
Perhaps surprisingly, I don't like a GIEFF lynch anymore, but will support if if needed.
I will only vote BM/Camn/KMD/Sens at a deadline, to avoid a No Lynch.

Take out Benmage and I pretty much agree with this post completely.

[Kmd4390]

I'll vote Alex if he has more votes than Mastin.

[Kmd4390]

This posting rate is hurting the game. I'm falling behind.

Vote GIEFF

because I wanted to lynch him yesterday.

[Kmd4390]

KMD is wrongly consistent, but that's better than wrongly inconsistent.

What do you mean by this? (Having trouble concentrating...)

[Kmd4390]

Vote alexhans

A quicklynch is an easy thing to attack, isn't it?

[Kmd4390]

Ok, I tried using GIEFF's and Zach's, but I'm doing this my way.

Mastin

(8): Debonair Danny DiPietro,

VP Baltar

, Kmd4390, Zachrulez, SpyreX, GIEFF, Benmage,

camn

Battle Mage (2):

Mastin

, alexhans
alexhans (1): Battle Mage

Not Voting:

Cephrir

, blackcatcontract, SensFan, jammer

Cephrir

(7): Debonair Danny DiPietro, Benmage, jammer, SpyreX, Zachrulez,

camn

, SensFan
blackcatcontract (2): GIEFF, alexhans
Benmage (1):
GIEFF (1): Kmd4390
Zachrulez (1): Battle Mage

Not Voting:

Cephrir

, blackcatcontract

I agree with Zach we can find at least one scum on each lynch.

DDD, myself, Zach, Spy, GIEFF, and Benmage were on the Mastin lynch. 1-2 scum here. I personally can eliminate myself. I have a town read on Benmage. DDD, Zach, Spy, GIEFF contains 1-2 scum.

Alex and BM were voting each other end of Day 1. I usually say one scum is voting off the wagon. Possible, but two townies voting each other is also common. Gonna have to call this null I guess as lame as that is.

I also say a scum didn't vote. Black, Sens, and Jammer. Black was catching up, but did have time, so he's included.

So from Day 1, let's say 2 scum in DDD/Zach/Spy/GIEFF/Benmage (edited in. see Day 2), one in Alex/BM, and one in Black/Sens/Jammer.

Day 2:
DDD, Benmage, Jammer, Spy, Zach, and Sens on the lynch. Town read on Benmage, although him being on both wagons kind of lessens that. Ok, let me edit Benmage back into the Mastin-lynch group.

GIEFF/Alex/BM were on other wagons. If someone was off of both lynches, but voting, I usually pick them as scum who plays by avoiding being on mislynches. BM fits this. Hmm. So does Alex. Maybe it's even plausible that they were distancing Day 1. The kind of player Mastin is though, I doubt only one scum voted him. So I expect two on Mastin's lynch IF BM and Alex are scum. That makes Black, Sens, and Jammer more likely town IF BM or Alex is scum.

Then again, GIEFF was on the Mastin lynch, but not Ceph. Black, again, wasn't voting.

K, who do I think is scum?
Black
Zach
GIEFF
Alex
BM
Jammer

^4 of those 6 are scum. If Alex and BM are BOTH scum, take Jammer off this list. I'm thinking it's more likely that only one is scum.

Unvote, Vote blackcatcontract

[Kmd4390]

I thought she was playing to her town meta.

[Kmd4390]

She is aggressive late in a game. Not on Day 1 of any game or Day 2 of a large.

[Kmd4390]

I get the sense that camn is just a small town girl, livin' in a lonely world, and would be prone to taking a midnight train going anywhere. Do you really think this fits her town meta?

Not sure what you mean by that. Maybe that she was willing to go with whatever wagon? If so, yeah, she does move around as town.

Yes, I don't see how a lurker-lynch could possibly go wrong, guys. It's been an excellent strategy so far.

Mastin ALWAYS lurks after a while. Ceph ALWAYS lurks. Black seems to be strategically lurking. Mastin and Ceph weren't that scummy. Black is. Mastin and Ceph were town. Black probably isn't.

[Kmd4390]

Vote: Kmd

He was completely absent for yesterday, bar 2 posts, where he criticised the activity, and attacked Gieff because he had on Day 1. Today he hasnt pursued Gieff again, and seems to want to play the game. I could see scum getting bolder with less townies to contend with, and i'm thinking it might be good to look at people who have been out of the spotlight till now.

BM

I'm "absent" all over MS lately. That's partially why I'm leaving the site. No time for mafia anymore.

I'd still be willing to vote GIEFF, but I've kind of second guessed my stance on him as the game has gone on, so he's not top priority.

What do you mean by "bold" and why is it a scumtell?

What exactly makes BCC's lurking strategic compared to how Cephrir's lack of posting yesterday seemed to be the same?

I've never seen Ceph NOT lurk in a game. Black pretty much said he was catching up and kind of posted a little and disappeared again. I'm not aware of Black's meta, but I know Ceph will lurk anywhere.

[Kmd4390]

Zach, Camn was town, not scum.

[Kmd4390]

Haha, my bad. Misread that. Missed the word "not".

[Kmd4390]

KMD: That happens when you're playing too much games at a time. I remember you saying you could play 10 games or more at a time. Take a break. Play fewer. But, play!

No, it happens when you misread.

DDD has posted in other places but hasn't even posted to say hi...

Hi.

Really? That's it? Opinions please.

*shrug*

Unvote, Vote: DDD

If

i'm gonna lose this game

, i'm at least gonna lose it to somebody who was TRYING to play.

BM

Charter once told me on AIM that it's usually scum who post first person PoV statements about winning or losing the game. I'm not sure I like the tell, but it was accurate in a few games he referenced. Hmm.

why are you suddenly more active now? The word "bold" is referring to you "coming out of the woodwork" today.

BM

I caught up in most of my games this morning because of a discussion with another game's Mod on AIM that I shouldn't talk about because it references an ongoing game.

"Coming out of the woodwork" meaning posting? Well, I was hanging out with someone over the weekend. It's no longer a weekend. I'm home once in a while.

And KMD, you came in today saying "Cephrir always lurks" - where were you yesterday when that outlook could have helped to stop a mislynch?

I couldn't keep up yesterday.

[Kmd4390]

One suspects that Charter might be wrong.
He's not exactly the Paragon of Mafia Hunters.

BM

He always seems to catch me.

because i've felt he was town for ages.

Really? Where have you stated this feeling? As far as what I recall in your 200+ post contribution in the game, you've been spending most of your time calling him scum.

^This. Pretty sure you haven't told us so if you've actually had a town read on Alex, BM.

I feel less sure he is scum now than I did then, in part because of the coaching meta applying when he is town. And in part because camn-town wrecked my alex-camn theory.

Don't ever back off of a player you see as scummy just because a connection isn't there after one flips. I once suspected a BlakAdder/Elvis_Knits connection in Family Guy. They weren't scumbuddies, but Blak was scum and EK was SK. EK actually went on to win, but let's not get into the bad memories too much.

Point is, just because a connection is false doesn't mean a scummy player is town.

If I am reading your thought process correctly, you suspect BM and alex are scumbuddies?

^I can see this.

Vote Count:

blackcatcontract (3): Kmd4390, jammer, GIEFF
Battle Mage (2): alexhans, Zachrulez
alexhans (1): Battle Mage
SensFan (1): Benmage
Debonair Danny DiPietro (1): SpyreX

Not Voting: SensFan, Debonair Danny DiPietro, blackcatcontract

6 to lynch

Unvote, Vote: Jammer

Damnit, i'm gonna go down voting for someone i think is scum. xD

BM

2 votes is "going down"? Hmm.

[Kmd4390]

Lol, you should work on that. In my experience, his reads are pretty shoddy.

You haven't seen Newbie 744. Raivann and I had the entire town eating out of the palms of our hands til Charter replaced in. Right, Alex?

why arent you trying to derail my inevitable lynch? xD

BM

This makes no sense. You are calling your lynch inevitible at just 2 votes.

[Kmd4390]

Forgot to post in my games that I'm V/LA. I somehow managed to get some time online, but long story short, the next time I can sleep is Sunday, so don't expect me online much, if at all.

Unvote Black

. He is being replaced, so I highly doubt he is strategically lurking.

Vote Battle Mage

because conspiracies are fun. Actually, my VC analysis had him as scum and his reaction to 2 votes is just terrible.

[Kmd4390]

BM, I took responsibility by reacting to what I feel was scummy on your part.

[Kmd4390]

Appeal to emotion ("that really bugs me") isn't helping your case any.

[Kmd4390]

I've never played with you and I don't read games I'm not in, especially during V/LA.

[Kmd4390]

I'd have to read enough to determine whether it's AtE and I'd have to trust meta. If I'm gonna do that at all, it won't be until I'm back.

[Kmd4390]

Probably last post on MS til Sunday.

GIEFF, VC analysis is Vote Count Analysis. I did it earlier and it gave BM, Black, Alex, Zach, GIEFF, and Jammer as the most likely scum candidates if I remember correctly. My VC analysis ignores context and looks purely at the end of day vote counts. I've found it quite effective in the past.

[Kmd4390]

KMD I could also get behind for the same thing but he doesn't have this amazing habit of showing up when called upon.

You rang?

Seriously though, I just got home from work a little while ago and am catching up in games. Just caught this on a quick scan and had to say somthing.

[Kmd4390]

THANK YOU YAW AND VI!!!!

Better hope Vi isn't a dayvig.

Vi, are you?

vote Sensfan

What did you do in the 6 minutes between this post and the one before it?

BYAHH

Go Vi!

lol best Chapelle's Show ever.

And wouldn't scum also try to

keep

my mislynch viable by, just as an example, saying that I should have been nightkilled if I were town?

How would saying you should have been NK'd keep you as a viable lynch?

But, you see, nobody really saw you as lynchable until today. Your argument will only kick in from tonight onwards, and ours is valid NOW.

I saw him (GIEFF) as lynchable on Day 1.

KMD (When he comes back): I take that you think now that it's BM+Alex+GIEFF?

Possibly. Zach and Jammer are possible too.

I see that he wrote that 4 of 6 players were scum. I thought I was practically the only one who thought about 4 scum.

25% of 16 players is 4 scum, right? And without power roles, 3 scum would make the game town-heavy.

[Kmd4390]

Ben, you think maybe if I throw a small fit and self-vote maybe you clowns would see reason?

Sens, I have more posts than you over days two and three and half the people here seem to think I'm the worst lurker of all-time, you fo the math.

Comparing yourself to SF's to prove you aren't a lurker is comical.. That woulda been bcc tell cephrir he wasn't a lurker.

Again imagine everyone let these people lead this day's direction:
DDD
SpryeX
KmD
SF
jammer

one month later.....1 page.

And this is why I'm not voting anyone, because you seem so desparate for a lynch on DDD. So desparate, that you blatantly misrepresent several people on that list.

For example, this game has been going on for a month, including nights. I was gone a week or so. I still have 55 posts, which would fill more than 2 full pages by myself.

/agree with Sens. I have 76 posts and replaced in on Page 10. Spy was also V/LA for a while and if I'm not mistaken, Jammer is currently V/LA. And I've basically been unnoficially V/LA for like the last 2 weeks because of work and lack of time for sleep.

I still have 55 posts, which would fill more than 2 full pages by myself..

Its not even your post#...your posts also have such little scumhunting in them, you could have 5,55,or100 of the way you post and its not much of a difference.

Can you honestly read me in ISO and say I haven't scumhunted?

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 30#1704030

Hmm....

Also, it doesn't count if the whole sentence is in all-caps.

OK, VI.

unvote

vote KMD

• KMD spent the majority of his effort on page 1 defending camn's scummy behavior, even though the points on which he caught camn-scum in a different game (outlined in Post 600) also applied to her behavior THIS game, as I pointed out in Post 602. Yet KMD never backed off his camn-defense, never stopped calling her obv-town.
  
  
• His Mastin vote was very weird, too. He excused it as soon as he made it by saying "either Mastin or camn is the lynch today" which wasn't the case at ALL.
  
  
• Even odder - two posts before his Mastin vote, he claimed he would rather lynch alex, me, or bcc instead of Mastin - Mastin was actually probably only 4 or 5 on his list. Yet, when given the opportunity to switch to alex, he did not. He NEVER unvoted Mastin until lynch went through, even though there were so many others he claimed to want to lynch.
  
  
• KMD tunneled in on me early on (jumping on as the 3rd vote), refusing to explain his reasoning until much, much later, when he could make something up. Today, he's jumped on the Battle Mage wagon (also as the 3rd vote), for ticky-tack reasons.

Oh, cool. Something to respond to.

Page 1? I wasn't even in the game yet. I'll assume you meant Day 1. I defended her because I had a strong town read on her and someone (I believe it was you) asked me to go into detail about why your case was crap, so I did. That other game was completely different because it was a game with multiple groups and we were opposing scum. But still, I didn't see how those points applied here at all.

Mastin was the most likely lynch aside from Camn. That was the lynch I preferred of the two.

I don't remember saying I preferred Black to Mastin, but you or Alex, sure. If I remember correctly, switching to Alex wouldn't have brought us closer to a lynch though.

I didn't refuse anything. I voted you based on gut. I am a gut player. If my gut says someone is scum, and I have no better reason to lay a vote, I'm going to follow my gut. Why did you want me to "make something up"? And I'm on BM because I didn't like his reaction to the first two votes. It was very scummy, so I voted.

GIEFF has points.
Also, lurking.

Do I have to make an avatar bet to get your attention

He really doesn't. And I've been busy.

[Kmd4390]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 30#1704030

Hmm....

^Ignore this. I was going to say something, saw that the game was nightless, went to delete what I was saying, and must have missed this part.

[Kmd4390]

So Kmd, if you were busy, why were you responding to all your other games at the time of that post?

When? I mostly respond to all of my games at the same time unless one is too long or I don't have time for all of them.

[Kmd4390]

And I did read you in iso. You have done very little scumhunting. You have VERY few posts that are not either defending camn, or attacking me for attacking camn.

Right, because not once have I gone after Alex, Mastin, BM, Zach, Black, or Jammer, right? I'm just the bully at the playground picking on you and only you.

Vi, I must have put it off due to length.

I'm at L-1, so I'll claim. I'm vanilla.

Final opinions before a potential hammer:
Battle Mage :I think he's scum. I really didn't like the way he acted like his lynch was inevitible after just two votes. I also sense distancing between him and Alex, who I'll get to in a second.
SensFan - More than likely town. He's played how I expect him to. Quick and to the point and quick to defend himself.
alexhans - Scum. That was my gut read on him and my VC analysis only furthers my suspicion on Alex.
GIEFF -Town. He is putting a lot of effort into finding scum. I think scum try to back their points, but it's just too much for him to be scum.
Debonair Danny DiPietro - Town. He's playing how he did in a lovers game where I got him lynched in LYLO (I was scum in that game). Only shows up when he has a point to make, makes the point, and continues lurking.
Vi (replacing blackcatcontract, who replaced Kairyuu) -I want to say town, but we haven't seen enough from anyone in this player slot.
Kmd4390 (replacing broomhead) -This guy is obviously town.
SpyreX - Town. This is the same townSpy I've seen in a handful of games.
Zachrulez -Scum. Gut read.
Benmage -Town. Gut read. Also more helpful than normal.
jammer- Scum if there are 4. Town if there are 3. His lurky play seemed strategical before, but seems more real now that he has limited access. Something still tells me scum though.

Ok, I think that's all the info I need to get out there.

[Kmd4390]

I still want to hear Kmd's justification for his Battle Mage vote though.

Did you see how he acted like he was pretty much lynched after just two votes? Very defeatist.

[Kmd4390]

Scum hate being lynched a lot more than town do. They also tend to get more paranoid.

[Kmd4390]

Rug pull?

[Kmd4390]

Oh. I was at L-1 when I started writing the post.

[Kmd4390]

Sens and DDD? Typical of each.

[Kmd4390]

Oh and Spy. Pretty much the same.

[Kmd4390]

I still want to hear Kmd's justification for his Battle Mage vote though.

Did you see how he acted like he was pretty much lynched after just two votes? Very defeatist.

Hi. Were you following the game early on? If so, why are you presenting this as a new point, when i did the exact same thing on Day 1?

BM

I don't remember seeing it before and I don't see anything in ISO.

[Kmd4390]

Vi, have I missed something?

[Kmd4390]

I have to leave for work any minute now, so if you haven't responded in about the next 5 minutes, I'll try to get to it tomorrow.

[Kmd4390]

I've given all of my thoughts. Was just asking if I'd missed something because you said you wanted to hear from me.

[Kmd4390]

Prodded. I am way behind. I probably won't get to this game until tomorrow night.

[Kmd4390]

Catching up now. Sorry I was gone so long. I want to say it won't happen again, but I can't promise much starting on Monday night. I work Monday night (haven't checked, but probably something like 10PM-6AM) and then leave Tuesday night for a 2 day trip. The weekend after that, I leave for a 2 week trip with possible laptop access on some nights. But yeah, catching up now.

[Kmd4390]

I don't know. Sens is probably #1 target still. Close with BM. Hard to say. KMD was not my preferred lynch target when I voted him. These are bad questions to ask me unless you think I'm scum, Zach.

^This post reminds me so much of whatever number open game it was that Nameless modded where GIEFF was town that it's not even funny.

He went from no votes to L-1 in two and a half hours. You're questioning the FIRST person on the wagon instead of those who ran him up to L-1 so quickly? Because I didn't unvote as soon as KMD hit L-2? I don't understand your suspicion.

And yes, these questions do absolutely no good unless you think I may be scum.

A couple of really good points against Zach here.

Yes, I am curious about the fact that you didn't pull your vote on KMD until it looked reasonably certain that no one else was going to tack votes on him. Yes I do find it a bit suspicious.

Unvote, Vote Zachrulez

(Removing this because I'm still behind)

Have you EVER made a case and ended it with "I'm not going to vote because there is a chance that this case is strong enough to lead to a large bandwagon in a matter of hours"? I sure as hell haven't. You are using the absolutely terrible "OMG YOU STARTED A BANDWAGON" argument against GIEFF here.

And yes, these questions do absolutely no good unless you think I may be scum.

I thought the whole purpose of the game was to try and determine whether you are scum or not? Do you consider yourself confirmed town?

BM

Maybe his role is confirmable.

---------------

I have to go again...

I'm at the top of Page 89 when I get back.

Unvote til I catch up

[Kmd4390]

I don't know. Sens is probably #1 target still. Close with BM. Hard to say. KMD was not my preferred lynch target when I voted him. These are bad questions to ask me unless you think I'm scum, Zach.

^This post reminds me so much of whatever number open game it was that Nameless modded where GIEFF was town that it's not even funny.

I read my iso in that game:

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... osts=10210

What are you referring to that this quote reminds you of?

I think I remember you saying something about how I shouldn't be asking you questions unless I thought you were scum in that game. I can't find it on a quick skim. I'm referring to the last line of the post I quoted though. The one where you say this exact same thing to Zach.

Back to catching up now.

[Kmd4390]

I'm back, for those who've dared to call me a lurker, I hope you don't dare skim this

---------------------------------------

@KMD

Right, because not once have I gone after Alex, Mastin, BM, Zach, Black, or Jammer, right? I'm just the bully at the playground picking on you and only you.

Actually. You haven't gone after me with anything other than saying I'm scum.

I've called you scum, voted you, and been willing to lynch you. I define that as "going after" you. GIEFF was saying that I've gone after him, and only him. I disagreed and showed everyone who I have been willing to lynch. That includes you even if you aren't at the top of my list anymore (BM and Zach are both above you).

alexhans - Scum. That was my gut read on him and my VC analysis only furthers my suspicion on Alex.

What do you exactly make of the votecount analysys? Day 1: I think BM is scum. I vote BM. Day 2: I rather lynch BCC (with the added bonus that BM wants the other lurker lynched)

Is this supposed to clear you or something?

I think I'm missing something I asked Kmd and didn't think of the last time, but the lack of him is also disturbing. I'd definitely like to know if that vote analysis is a paper tiger - I remember his Battle Mage vote (which he based on said vote analysis) was justified by something else entirely when I asked.

Actually, my BM vote was based on his defeatist attitude after just 2 votes, not the analysis.

KMD - what are your thoughts on how quickly the wagon built up on you?

1-2 scum on it. Order of likliness:
DDD
Spy
Vi
Sens
GIEFF.

-------------

Need to start at Page 94 tomorrow.

[Kmd4390]

I think I'm missing something I asked Kmd and didn't think of the last time, but the lack of him is also disturbing. I'd definitely like to know if that vote analysis is a paper tiger - I remember his Battle Mage vote (which he based on said vote analysis) was justified by something else entirely when I asked.

Actually, my BM vote was based on his defeatist attitude after just 2 votes, not the analysis.

GIEFF, VC analysis is Vote Count Analysis. I did it earlier and it gave

BM

, Black, Alex, Zach, GIEFF, and Jammer as the most likely scum candidates if I remember correctly. My VC analysis ignores context and looks purely at the end of day vote counts. I've found it quite effective in the past.

Vote Battle Mage because conspiracies are fun. Actually,

my VC analysis had him as scum

and his reaction to 2 votes is just terrible.

, etc.

Ok, you're right. Must have forgotten.

The rest of my catchup comes later.

[Kmd4390]

Prodded. I am way behind. I probably won't get to this game until tomorrow night.

Definitely dubious.
You know why. I know why. Unfortunately, I can't tell anyone else why.

I actually don't.

@Everyone:

1) If you could lynch 2 players at the same time (Assuming we had even numbers and it wouldn't lose us the game in case of 2 mislynches) who would they be? Why?
2) Choose the most probable town player between this 3 (BM, DDD, SF) and state why.

1) BM for his defeatedness and Zach for the stuff I pointed out in one of my other catch-up posts.
2) Sens. I've gotten a town read on him all game.

-------------------

Page 97 when I have time.

[Kmd4390]

Also, Kmd continues to deliver at a rate normally associated with ketchup coming out of a bottle. I understand time constraints, etc., but get to the stuff that matters.

Yeah I went to hang out with this girl today and just got home and I guess we might go bowling in like 2 hours. I'll see what I can do before then.

How old did you think I AM?

Sheesh

You're about 5 years older than I thought.

How old did you think I AM?

Sheesh

My age, give or take.

You're a couple years older than I thought too.

Ok on to catching up now.

[Kmd4390]

Why would you say "them" and not some form of "I" if you are implying a town loss?

This is a good point.

I agree.

EBWOP: also, it's probably not gonna be my defeat if BM survives and he is scum... so yeah, fuck THEM, let THEM lose is totally correct...

So you are scum with BM?

Hmmmmm. You used town in a "them" context. That actually is interesting.

Actually, it looked like he was using Sens and DDD in a "them" context, calling them town. Alex, do you have town reads on Sens and Triple-D?

If this is accurate, it's a slip that Sens and DDD are town.

DDD is practically impossible to read...

The second someone reads their Role PM, they are no longer "impossible" to read. Whatever action they take communicates something about their role. Yes, I'm claiming the ability to read players like Zwet and Empking. Ok, so I'm wrong once in a while, but I can read them just as well as I can read anyone else. So no, DDD isn't impossible to read.

Unvote: SensFan
Vote: Battle Mage

(L-2)

A Kmd lynch would be about equivalent IMO.

Why?

For one, I know he's lurking aboot.
For two, he's yet to explain this vote count analysis that's driving his actions.

Lurking has happened in all of my games due to RL.
What do I still need to explain about the analysis?

------------------------

Ok, caught up now.

Lynches I'd definitely support:
Zach
BM

Lynches I'd support if the first two can't happen:
Alex
Jammer
Spy

Lynch I'd reluctantly support if absolutely needed:
Sens

Lynches I refuse to support:
GIEFF
Benmage
Vi
Kmd

^All in order. Scum at top. Town at bottom.

[Kmd4390]

KMD more actual catching up and less banter. Only the caught up may banter. Its in the rules.

Banter is quick and easy though, so I do that and then catch up.

[Kmd4390]

Oh, forgot to

Vote Zach

.

[Kmd4390]

While I'm not denying this, I have to question the varying extents of said lurking. (Plus, it's not lurking if you're not actually there, right?)

Meh, "not posting" and "lurking" are sometimes used interchangably. Also, this is by far my fastest paced game.

What

have

you explained about the analysis?

Whatever is in the post where I did it.

@KMD:

Why Gieff in your "town" list?

Actually, at least a line or two on each and why they are where they are?

GIEFF has seemed more and more town throughout the game. I've been feeling this way for a while. And he is just reminding me too much of a game we played together where he was town.

Most of those are gut reads or things I've been over. If you want a line or two that badly, I'll do it when my head is more clear. Just let me know.

KMD, how does my play in this game compare to my play in open 150?

Curious about what you think here.

Wait, weren't you scum there? And I pegged you? But two scum groups in that game. I'd have to look up what my case was on you there. But the two scum group thing might throw it off.

Kmd thinks I’m so town that he refuses to even put me on his list of people he has to think about lynching. What a great guy.

Heh, knew I'd forget someone. You probably go right under Spy. Or above him. Somewhere in there.

I think I just gave myself so much to do in this game tomorrow. XD

[Kmd4390]

@KMD

:
KMD: You've only holded gut against me. Same as jammer.

Thanks for noticing.

alexhans - Scum. That was my gut read on him and my VC analysis only furthers my suspicion on Alex.

What do you exactly make of the votecount analysys? Day 1: I think BM is scum. I vote BM. Day 2: I rather lynch BCC (with the added bonus that BM wants the other lurker lynched)

Is this supposed to clear you or something?

huh? Don't avoid me with stupid questions. You say that VC analysys made me scummy. Why? How is my voting who I think is scum scummy?

I've done so many of these that I know where scum usually are on them. You happen to be where I'd expect scum to be. I think I said this before. At least one of you and BM is scum. I'm personally leaning BM, but not ruling you out regardless of his flip.

Before KMD posts more fluff I suggest him to READ carefully... Practically means practically.

Yeah, I've read everything before my last post (excluding the part of the game before I replaced in) and am currently reading what I've missed.

NEW strike of brilliance theory: BM + KMD... that's why he keeps accusing me of being scum with BM and is probably mildly bussing him.

This is new? I was scum with Sens, Camn, and BM earlier, remember?]

[Kmd4390]

Have you given 2524 any more thought KMD?

Nope. Let me find that game.

[Kmd4390]

Have you given 2524 any more thought KMD?

Nope. Let me find that game.

I can help you with that.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11635

Yeah, got it just before I saw this.

Ok.

Zach:
-Started by asking a few questions, but didn't take any hard stances.
-Took the easy Darkstrike vote and blew it up as his first real stance
-Most of his attacks are small jabs
-Put Kise at L-2 for weak reasons without even mentioning him previously
-More concerned with lurker hunting than scum hunting

First point. Questioning without hard stances. Meh, a lot of setup talk to start here. You go on to call Mastin scum and Alex/Jammer town pretty quickly though. Gonna have to say that's different.

Second point. I think this mostly comes from the first and was probably just to make it look like I had more points. Can't really compare here. Wait. Actually. Voting Mastin is pretty easy to do. You were a lot softer on him than on DS though.

Third point. Small jabs. Seeing a bit of that. May just be a playstyle thing though.

Fourth point is too specific to compare.

Off the top of my head, I wouldn't call you a lurker hunter here.

----------------

Conclusion: Very different play here from Open 150.

[Kmd4390]

Why are you voting Zach if you think one of BM or me is scum?

Zach is my top suspect.

I like my case better, simply put.

There's a case? I thought it was a playstyle thing because I use gut.

---------------

FTR, I'm leaving in about 4 hours (and plan to sleep somewhere in that time period) and won't be home for a couple of days. Then on Friday, I'm probably going to be as inactive as you will ever see me on MS. It will be in my sig shortly.

[Kmd4390]

Got some time on a laptop, so I'm checking in.

Vi, it's both. Gut and placement of votes.

Vi/Zach, are you seriously suggesting that I'm going V/LA from the entire site for two weeks to do something I'd never do (intentionally lurk) in one game?

[Kmd4390]

Vi, I don't remember anything more than where I usually look in final vote counts. Look where those names were. That's as much as I remember about it.

What are you trying to show by bolding names that I mentioned before?

----------------------

Looks like BM is our lynch. Let's get some votes.

Unvote, Vote Battle Mage

[Kmd4390]

Quick lynch? Really?!?!? Just bus him already.

[Kmd4390]

Your intent is to try and switch things to Jammer.

If Zach is scum, so is BM. And Jammer would have to be town.

[Kmd4390]

I didn't say you were voting Jammer. Yet.

[Kmd4390]

Maybe not now that I said something. You just want attention shifted away from BM. Jammer was a convenient target. Your next move will be interesting. Personally, I'd just bus BM if I were you.

[Kmd4390]

If you think it's because I'm bussing him, you have no reason not to be ok with lynching him because it implies that we are both scum.

[Kmd4390]

So we are lynching BM, right? I don't like all the 1-2 vote wagons still being there. Anyone on one should be voting BM. If they are so confident BM is town, switch to another 2-vote-wagon. Sens needs to switch from Ben for sure, preferably to BM.

[Kmd4390]

I'm not ready to respond to the above yet.
But before I forget, *sets out Kmd bait*

I'm online with not much time. If you need me to respond to something quickly, quote it and I'll do my best.

[Kmd4390]

I'm not ready to respond to the above yet.
But before I forget, *sets out Kmd bait*

I'm online with not much time. If you need me to respond to something quickly, quote it and I'll do my best.

Gotta go. I'll try to check back later.

[Kmd4390]

Back. Reading.

[Kmd4390]

Unvote: Battle Mage
Vote: SpyreX

(L-3)

Hmm. This is a bit of a... swing vote? If BM is scum, here's a connection. If Spy is scum, Vi is very likely town.

-------------------

So BM has 2 votes now. Spy has 3. Spy isn't the best lynch, but not the worst. I'll switch if needed, but BM and Zach are still better choices.

[Kmd4390]

Vi, if I post it now, I remember it. I'll probably forget otherwise.

GIEFF may have started the case, but your switch put Spy over BM.

I second Zach's WTF on GIEFF.

[Kmd4390]

Vi, all it looks like to me is GIEFF thinks BM is town and Spy is scum.

[Kmd4390]

Oh, it's Day. I should probably catch up.

[Kmd4390]

What has DDD done in the last 9 days?

My best post of the game happened within the last nine days and why are you drawing such an arbitrary line in the sand?

Really, I'm just incredibly annoyed with GIEFF who seems to be doing his damnedest to secure a no lynch. He broke up the Battle Mage wagon in favor of a SpyreX wagon and then broke that up in favor of a self-vote? Seriously? How the hell does that help the town at all. He'll probably come back and explain it was some elaborate trap, but at this point I'm only too happy to oblige him in his quest to get himself lynched.

Unvote; Vote: GIEFF

Yeah, I'm gonna have to agree with this, that's exactly how it looks to me right now.

Unvote: Vote: Gieff

If he's not part of the solution he's part of the problem.

Lazy wagon hop.

Iso'd SpyreX. His position on me alone is remarkably consistent. Too consistent in fact-his reasoning for thinking i am town is based upon 1 incident early in the game, and he's clung to that ever since. I could see him as scum, moreso than Gieff right now.

Vote: SpyreX

Sorry buddy.

BM

Why apologize?

Zach.... and???

GIEFF has been my biggest town read... so? (If I say that you might be good scum doesn't mean that I have to vote you. It's just a fear. I won't vote my biggest town read up till now.)

SpyreX has done some scummy things but my overall feeling was that he was town too... SO, I prefer it.

What is that post supposed to show?

Well you had said that you were thinking GIEFF was scum even though he was logical and that you didn't want a Spy lynch, so it's a pretty major inconsistancy.

I'd like to see KMD cast a vote personally.

Mainly because at this point, anyone else on either bandwagon changing their vote has the deadline as an excuse to escape responsibility.

I was V/LA. Still am, but I'm gonna get home tomorrow.

Scum to Town: (I'm taking the wagons Zach posted into consideration):
Zach
Jammer
BM
Spy
DDD
Alex
Ben
Sens

Pretty sad when I'm only confident on two town reads...

Vote Zach

[Kmd4390]

Ben, Jammer was on every mislynch except Mastin's, where he wasn't voting at all. Zach neglected to mention this, so not only is Jammer likely scum, but Zach also just connected Jammer to him.

Zach, what is the purpose of your last post?

[Kmd4390]

^You sound so much like Jammer's scumbuddy in that post. Just sayin'.

[Kmd4390]

So let's lynch you and then your buddy Jammer after you flip scum.

[Kmd4390]

Jammer, I am saying that Zach made a good point about Spy and DDD, but neglected to mention you when you weren't even voting at the end of Day 1, but were on the other mislynches. A Zachscumflip probably means you are a good place to look.

Actually, now that I think about it, I don't want to lynch you (Jammer) until we get a flip from Zach. If not Zach, we are lynching either Spy or DDD. I could still compromise on BM too.

Yes, it is a logical move for scum. He says he's had a town read on you all game which is consistent with his posts, but then points out that your later play is scummy. So he effectively sets himself up to look ok if you are lynched.

What chainsaw are you referring to?

You probably didn't notice me because I was V/LA. I got back today though and will be back to trying to refrain from spamming. Don't expect to see me lurk any time soon.

Btw, Jammer, why is Spy your biggest town read? Elaborate on Zach, who you have right in the middle.

[Kmd4390]

Zach, the links are more somewhere to look if you do flip scum. I'm not voting you

because

of links.

You did say that his later play is scummy. It sets you up to say that you at least did suspect him slightly.

Spy and DDD are higher priority because they were on every mislynch. I don't expect that people would have gone that way if I ignored it. I dug it up from quite a few pages back.

-----------------------

So Sens and Ben are very likely town. Jammer can wait until we get a Zach flip. Alex has looked pretty town, but could be scum if BM is. So we can forget about lynching Alex before BM. That means I'd rather not lynch the following players: Sens, Ben, Jammer, Alex.

Instead, I want to focus on: Zach, Spy, DDD, BM.

So we could:
-Lynch Zach
----If town, I'd suspect Spy and DDD the most.
----If scum, I'd suspect Jammer the most.
-Lynch BM
----If town, I don't feel much would change except that Alex would probably be grouped with Sens and Ben as obvtown.
----If scum, I look at Alex next.
-Lynch Spy
----If town, I suspect DDD and possibly Jammer (Zach's point about the mislynches. I expect at least one of the three, if not two, is scum. Probably not all three.)
----If scum, Jammer is probably scum because of the way Spy's gone after DDD. Zach is probably town in this case.
-Lynch DDD
----If town, not much changes
----If scum, Zach and Spy are probably town. BM, Alex, and Jammer are left by process of elimination.

Conclusion: A DDD lynch would be best ONLY if we are confident that he'd flip scum. I'm personally not too confident on that. Lynching Spy or Zach probably gives us the most info. Lynching BM gives us the least.

So...

I want to lynch either Zach or Spy today.

[Kmd4390]

Alex, since this post:

Why not just have a 2nd preference for lynch Alex?

Because Im afraid of being wrong and his calling me stupid annoys me.

I'm going to play a soccer match now but when I come back I triple promise that I will read everything I missed and have my say.

BM has been scummy the whole game. The only problem is that, many times, his AtE seems genuine and, on hindsight, I can't find a motivation for Cephir over Vi unless Vi is scum.

Yeah, I suck... I've tunneled and now Im unsure... Now that Im so close to get what I wanted...

This is Newbie 744 all over again but without the replacements.

btw.

Unvote

Im gonna do some ISO Reads too. I guess.

And for the record, BM, my logic was NOT bad... you've done enough scummy things in my opinion.

PS: Surprising, right? I'll eagerly await any accusations about an BM+Alexhans pairing...

---random desperate thoughts

GIEFF would fuck up my sanity... So I still don't support a GIEFF lynch.

SpyreX still somewhat strikes me as town...

Im changing too much, right now...

this game has gone on too long.

I'm completely wifomed...

screw you all...

anyway... I keep thinking about pairs... and nothings makes sense.

I don't know...

jammer might be a good lynch.

bye.

You dropped one of the biggest towntells I know. Won't say what it is unless someone is desperate to know.

And how long have I been after Zach? Um. Day 3 I think? Maybe Day 2.

Why should I be voting Jammer on a connection to a player I think is scum instead of voting THAT player.

[Kmd4390]

BM, trust me, if I

did

have a 100% tell, I'd have said so. I don't. Just a very strong one. Far from being 100% though.

[Kmd4390]

Your intent is to try and switch things to Jammer.

If Zach is scum, so is BM. And Jammer would have to be town.

This specifically bothers me right now. Yesterday he accused me of trying to mislynch him, today he's my scum partner. (I assume for consistency he will argue BM is too.)

Shit. Forgot about that...

Hmm. The speed of this wagon makes me uncomfortable. And of course Spy is the L-2 vote. Hmm.

Unvote, Vote Spy

for blatantly bandwagoning all game. Zach just reminded me why I think Jammer is town. I think Spy/Zach/BM is the scumteam. Spyscum meands DDDtown and Zachscum means Jammertown. I think I actually have this figured out now.

[Kmd4390]

Spy, I already had a scum read on Zach. The reason I suspect you more now is because you've been a part of basically every major bandwagon all game, including all three mislynches. I don't see any particular connection between the two of you, but you are both scummy. So I'm fine lynching either of you today. Also, seeing BM/Spy right in the middle of a wagon that is now at L-1 doesn't exactly make me want to jump on.

[Kmd4390]

Which read, Spy? The one on you?

[Kmd4390]

Spy, making a detailed case with 122 pages to use is a lot of work. You know by now that I am a gut player and most "logic" I use is just to convince people.

Zach, yes, I forgot. Not much else I can say. I've been busy and mafia hasn't been the first thing I've thought about.

As far as Post 3027. If you flip town, I'm more likely to agree with the point you made about Spy and DDD when looking at the vote counts. It's a good point, but if you are scum, it gets thrown out the window.

If Spy is scum

Wait, I see your point. Spy and DDD don't make sense as a scumteam. So your town flip wouldn't make them scum together, but there would be a good chance that one of the two is scum. Yeah. That makes sense. So, like I said, Zachtown means I suspect Spy and DDD the most. The only thing is that I suspect each individually, but don't expect both to be scum together. Just one of the two.

Unvote, Vote Jammer

Self preservation. The wagon actually looks good too, apart from Spy being on it. Hmm. If Jammer is scum, I think I'd look at Spy and BM next. If he's town, then shit I don't know. Probably stick with the reads I already have I guess.. Which means I'd suspect Zach/Spy/BM. Which means either way I'm seeing Spy and BM as scum.

God there are so many better lynches than Jammer, but lynching him is better than lynching myself..

[Kmd4390]

Jammer, the fact that you weren't voting means you weren't pushing another lynch over the mislynch.

If he's your scumbuddy, pointing out that your play has looked bad lately allows him to bus if needed. That means he is on your lynch and looks better if you flip scum.

Ok. Pointing out your own chainsaw attack doesn't mean it's not scummy though.

So your town read on Spy comes specifically from meta? What games are you basing this on and what similarities do you see? What is different in his scum games?

So you have no clue on Zach at all? Shouldn't you look closer then and try to get a better read on him?

[Kmd4390]

Jammer,

Well, general I look at his play as town.

What did you mean by this if not meta?

-------------

Zach, what did you notice about Jammer's voting patterns?

Actually, "intent to vote Mastin" makes it that much worse because by not voting, he separated himself from the wagon he supported. At the very least, he should be looked at just as much as Spy and DDD for voting on every mislynch.

[Kmd4390]

Jammer, scum tend to be on mislynches. I'm not saying anyone who happens to be wrong is scum. I'm saying that the tendency is that on a mislynch, especially Day 1, you will almost always find at least one scum. So leaving out context, Spy and DDD are the best place to look. Now, look at context. You were on two mislynches and distanced yourself from the other by not voting, but supporting it.

I'd still be up for lynching Zach or Spy, but I don't see enough support...

[Kmd4390]

KMD, like to hop on a BM-wagon?

Unvote; Vote: Battle Mage

Ok.

Unvote, Vote Battle Mage

[Kmd4390]

I mostly voted Jammer in self-preservation anyway. A BM lynch would be better.

[Kmd4390]

We are lynching either Spy or BM today.

[Kmd4390]

DDD, why should we look at pairs any more or less than we would on Day 1 with no scum flips yet?

[Kmd4390]

Vote Benmage

Not liking the BM wagon after DDD's vote.

[Kmd4390]

.... I just preview hammered?

Awesome.

lol

[Kmd4390]

Dead:

camn, Townie, killed Night 3

[Kmd4390]

KMD lurked a lot late in the game too.

Kmd was obvscum. Has nobody played with KmdTown before?

What was different aside from my lack of free time near the middle of the game? Actually, what was different between here and Death Note, which ran at the same time, and where I was town.

Anyhow, good game to the scum team. How many times is this I've lost to kmd scum now? 3?

Really?

I always had a bad feeling about KMD wich I never could explain... specially with the Camn kill.

I laughed when everyone said it was a weird kill, but no one made the connection.

Kmd: No wagon except Battle Mage (too busy lying about being V/LA)

Um. I have

NEVER

lied about V/LA. I started working 40 hour weeks on overnight shifts in like June. I started another job along with that in the beginning of July. I took a summer class. I went on an out of state trip for two weeks from August to September. So I've just recently come back from a legit V/LA. When I came online, I didn't have time to post everywhere. A game that already has a lynch (GIEFF's hammer) isn't exactly first priority.

[Kmd4390]

Hmm. This was the 40th endgame I've made it to. Cool.

[Kmd4390]

@Kmd: You in Death Note:
"These people are scum. Find them. Kill them."

You in this game:
"Oh. Sorry I haven't been posting. Um... what I said earlier. Whatever it was."

@posting 30 minutes after the thread was locked: The implication is that you were lurking for anyone's-guess-how-long before deadline.

Ok, so because I actually was able to come up with some names and stay interested in Death Note, but not here, I looked scummy here? Noted for future reference. Appear more interested.

[Kmd4390]

@KMD
a) I hope we are even NOW!
b) I too was shocked that everyone thought I was a "weird" NK choice... I mean OBV!!
c) I am disappointed at the lack of respect shown to me by DDD in your quicktopic. He apparently doesn't know that I would have seen all three of you dead had I lived. Hm.

a) 3-2. Not yet.
b) hahaha. I literally lol'd.
c) Doesn't matter. We took care of ya.