Mafia 98 - Apennine Mafia (Game Over)

[SensFan]

Anyone who actually continues this "Sens must be scum since he should have been killed over Cow" logic, don't expect me to even read your posts.

jammer, if you read the site/my sig at the time, you would have known I was forced out of that game. So I'm going with a

Vote" jammer

[SensFan]

Seriously, guys.

SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT THE KILL.

Its something the Scum have 100% control over, and I'm betting most/all of the Scum are now trying to use that to also control the Day phase.

[SensFan]

Sens, I take it your vote for jammer is semi-random OMGUS, and has little to do with my or Kairyuu's reasons for voting him. Is that correct?

My vote for him is because I think he's more likely than the rest of you to be Scum.

[SensFan]

jammer, if you read the site/my sig at the time, you would have known I was forced out of that game. So I'm going with a

Vote" jammer

Is this a joke vote? Are you voting a player who is on the spotlight for what reasons exactly? Are you going to be as combative as ever? Are we gonna end up fighting?

I vote for who I think is Scum. That's it, that's all.
If you have any doubts about my ability to read with my gut, ask GIEFF.

Seriously, guys.

SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT THE KILL.

Its something the Scum have 100% control over, and I'm betting most/all of the Scum are now trying to use that to also control the Day phase.

mmmm... I knew it...

Sensfan...
Discussing, stating our opinions = Healthy
Shutting the fuck up = NOT healthy

No.

Discussing and stating opinions about the Night Kill = Not Fucking Healthy
Shutting the fuck up about stuff the Scum has full control over = Healthy

I will not be repeating myself again.

DO NOT DISCARD 4 scumteam. It may bite us in the ass if we mislynch thrice.

I'm willing to go on record saying there are are not 4 Scum.

2:10 is considered theoretically balanced, though Town has never won
You really think a mod like Yaw would make a 4:11 set-up? I think it far more likely that we're dealing with a 3:12 set-up, and there's even a higher chance of 2:13 than 4:11.

[SensFan]

I vote for who I think is Scum. That's it, that's all.
If you have any doubts about my ability to read with my gut, ask GIEFF.

You'll never get scum lynched that way.
You have to convince the rest of us!

Yeah, yeah. Don't worry.

[SensFan]

Based on past experience, it may be a good idea to consider L-2 as L-1 in this game. Sens-scum may try to use his "I WILL QUICKHAMMER ANYBODY" meta to get away with a scum-hammer, or a misguided town-hammer.

If I think someone is Scum, and they are at L-1, absolutely I will hammer. I expect the same of everyone else in this game.

[SensFan]

The pressure on BM is one of the stupidest things I've ever seen.

It had a >0% chance of helping the Town, by outing a Scum
It had a 0% chance of hurting the Town

How the fuck can you call that scummy?

[SensFan]

Sensfan has just 1 vote, in his very first post in the thread, which he refuses to explain. This is particularly odd for a player who calls himself "very aggressive", and who is active in other games.

That's a massive misrep. I describe myself as extremely aggressive. Not as vote-happy.

But since you seem to care so much, here's a second one:

Vote: GIEFF

[SensFan]

Alex, jammer, GIEFF.

There's a Scum in that group.

[SensFan]

Alex, jammer, GIEFF.

There's a Scum in that group.

Could you explain the reasoning behind it?

I pity the Town if none of you are Scum. That, and I don't think its possible for all 3 of you to be that scummy, but still Town.

And with a scum you mean only one, or atleast one.

How could I possibly know if there is exactly one? This is the type of stuff that put you on the list.

[SensFan]

Still need to catchup, just skimming a bit...

Wait...really? Then why is one of the newbie setups a 2:7??

I think he was refering to a 2:10 setup without powerroles.

I fully endorse the battle mage wagon.

I was reading you as being more critical of being alex. Was I wrong about this?

Isn't there a newbie 2:7 setup with no powerroles as one of the 4 options..

Yes, there is.

What the hell does that have to do with the face an Open 2:10 game is slightly pro-Scum?

[SensFan]

Yes, there is.

What the hell does that have to do with the face an Open 2:10 game is slightly pro-Scum?

I just found it odd, that a 2:10 game never wins. Wouldn't a 2:7 (no PR's) be even harder... Thats all, I was just inquiring.

1) Newb Games aren't open
2) Newb Games aren't played anywhere near optimally
3) Newb Games aren't concerned about perfect balance

[SensFan]

Hi. Who is scum?

Mastin, alex, jammer, GIEFF.

There's at least one, if not two or all three, in there.

The Mastin wagon appears to be biggest, so

Unvote, Vote: Mastin

.

---

All you people asking me to write novels about why I suspect who I do, its not going to happen. This is how I play, and I'm right a whole lot more often than I was when I wrote novels.

Besides, I think I've made it fairly obvious why I suspect all 4 of the above. If you really have no idea, read the thread. If you still have no idea, and you've done what you feel is enough looking into the matter on your own, then you can ask me.

[SensFan]

Did you follow the process outlined above?

[SensFan]

I think I've made it fairly obvious why I suspect all 4 of the above.

No you haven't, actually. It is not "obvious" why you suspect Mastin. You made some vague accusations at the beginning of the game about NK speculation, but that was directed at no one in particular. So, it's BS for you to now act like he was on your list the whole time now that his wagon is gaining steam.

Except that, you know, I never said he was on my list the whole time. I said it should be obvious why I am voting him right now.

Please read my posts.

[SensFan]

Sensfan's and BM's scared reactions, however, may be of note.

Want to keep misrepping me? Or maybe you want to keep basing suspicions off the one thing Scum have 100% control over?

---

GIEFF and others, I'm never the type of player to make alex/mastin-like posts, even in a Mini. In a Large Game, the less big posts the better, especially in the early days.

I'm not going to add even more noise to this thread by making ridiculously long cases, we have enough of that already. Instead, I'll make sure I'm on record as to who and when I suspect people, and why I suspect them. That way, there's a clear record of my suspicions, and a track record of my votes and such.

In future days, when there is less noise, it will be more appropriate for everyone who is alive to be making large cases.

[SensFan]

alex. Stop being dumb.

I JUMPED ON THE MASTIN WAGON BECAUSE OF THE ARGUMENT PRESENTED BY SOMEONE ELSE ABOUT HIS META, COMBINED WITH THE ANTI-TOWN ACTION OF DWELLING OVER NIGHT ACTIONS, WHICH I MENTIONNED ADAMANTLY EARLIER ON.

Seriously, you're calling me Scum for hopping on the Mastin wagon because others did? You realize that the whole point of Mafia is to make a case good enough that other people are comfortable enough in your views to follow you, right?

Furthermore, you've said it far too often for me to quote, but stop saying I need to say who I suspect and why. I have made it more obvious than anyone in this game who I suspect, and you seem to be the only one who doesn't understand why I suspect the people I do, and I suspect that's because you seem incapable of reading between the lines, and expect everyone to baby you with "I suspect _____ because of ______" sentences.

GIEFF, I have never claimed to be a vote-hopper, I claim to be aggressive. Aggressive involves swearing where called for, yelling at people for being dumb, etc...And sorry, I wasn't ignoring your questions, I simply forgot to reply to them. That, in fact, is a perfect example of why I have been playing the way I do. I posted in this game before work yesterday, got home and went to bed without going online, woke up this morning and there's 3 new pages to read. That's already more than there should be, and I'm not going to add to it by writing novels and huge cases.

---

Oh, and to alex:

KMD, BM, camn, Sens all seem to understand each other. You really think its because we're all Scum, as opposed to the fact we all have enough experience to see that none of us are being scummy?

[SensFan]

I will give an analogy of the camn/GIEFF debate, for those on the go:

GIEFF: "You just claimed Sane Cop in a Mountaneous game, with a DayInvestigation on X! You're obvSCUM!!!!!!"
camn: "What the fuck are you talking about? I said I thought X was Scum."
GIEFF: "Well, it doesn't matter whether you think 'claiming Sane Cop with a DayInvestigation Guilty' means the same thing I do, what matters is that you didn't deny claiming to be a Sane DayCop!"
camn: "Ummm...you're just not being reasonable here. Would claiming such a blatant role in a game we've all discussed to be Mountaneous be scummy, anyways?"
GIEFF: "OMG NOW YOU ADMIT TO CLAIMING TO BE A DAYCOP. YOU ARE SUCH A LIAR AND SOOOOO OBVIOUSLY SCUM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!one!!!shiftshift!!!eleven!!!"

So yeah,

Unvote, Vote: GIEFF

[SensFan]

Sensfan, can you make your point in non-analogy form? That makes no sense to me.

*You accuse her of OMGUSing you
*She denies OMGUSing you
*You reply "Well, let's not get hung up on our respective definitions of OMGUS"

[SensFan]

Sens, you may remember SL noticing a similar tell on djekha/Zilla (who was scum) in Mini 738 (post 97):

You know, I don't give a rat's ass about one particular case of a different player doing this and ending up being Scum. I am happy you brought up 738, though, since I know from there that you actually are a competent player. Which is why I don't buy that you believe the bullshit you're spewing.

[SensFan]

Unvote: Vote Mastin

Will come back to GIEFF tomorrow.

[SensFan]

Oops, didn't realize that was a L-1 vote.

Unvote.

[SensFan]

Since 2:50 AM EST this morning, Mastin has 2 posts in a specific MD thread. Those posts have a total of 2778 words and 13,455 characters (excluding spaces).

So much for him being too short on time to post in this game...

[SensFan]

Getting at L-2 with plain lurking is quite a achievement. I don't feel a Mastin lynch that strong.

Wow, looks like Mastin now has alex and jammer fighting over a chance to be with him.

Seriously, I don't think you could have misrepresented and strawmanned the attack on Mastin more if you had tried. You see, "Getting at L-2 with plain lurking" conveniently ignored the fact that there is a black-and-white meta reason to call this scummy, the fact Mastin has promised a re-read at least once, and has posted almost 5000 words in a SINGLE MD thread today.

[SensFan]

EBODP: The last sentence should say 2000.

[SensFan]

I just read the rest of the thread. Four more Mastin posts than since I last counted.

His totals for the day are now:
*3246 words
*15,862 characters

[SensFan]

alex, give me reasons why you think I'm scummy, in 200 words or less.

Thanks.

[SensFan]

Still not playing eh? Where do you get your rep from man?? Your nice avatar? Scumhunting and SensFan don't seem to fit together...

That's funny, given my posts are chocked full of reasons why the 4 people I mentionend are Scum. I should apologize, though, do you want me to use language that you can understand? It might be hard to right all my posts in 4-letter words or less, though...

You, on the other hand, have yet to give a SINGLE reason as for why you think I'm Scum, if memory serves. It appears you actually are entertaining the idea that I would be policy-lynched. Which is not only the dumbest thing I've ever heard, but is

in direct contradiction to your and Mastin's assertions that I'm Scum since I'm a higher-priority kill than Cow.

Go cry to your friendies BM, Camn and KMD... who are all so townie because they don't suspect you...

You think the 4 of us are Scum? That's fucking impossible, as I explained earlier. There's no way in hell that Yaw made a 11:4 Mountaneous set-up to run as a closed game, and Emptyger approved it. No chance. Zero. Oh, whoops, I forgot. You still think that 4:11 = 2:10...

So, as I showed, at least one of Camn/BM/KMD/Sens is Town*. Therefore, at least one of us is acting sincerely. Therefore, at least one of us genuinely thinks the other 3 are Town. We're also (unless I'm mistaken) the 4 most experienced players here, and the only ones that seem to know that different != scummy.

tldr; either put up or shut up. I expect that post of why I'm Scum in 200 words or less.

*Note that if indeed Camn/BM/KMD are Scum, the Town is fucked. Hell, I still think Town is fucked if 2 of GIEFF/Mastin/Alex/jammer are Town...

[SensFan]

GIEFF, do you think that Camn and I are scum together?

Pssh, its you/me/Camn/BM, remember?

[SensFan]

Spy - here is a list of posts / day and characters / day from this game:

[mrow]Player[col]Posts / Day[col]1,000's of Chars / Day[col]GIEFF[col]8.2[col]6[col]alexhans[col]3.4[col]5.4[col]camn[col]8.1[col]2.5[col]Battle Mage[col]3.5[col]2.1[col]Kmd4390[col]6.4[col]2[col]Mastin[col]1.8[col]1.5[col]Benmage[col]3.9[col]1.5[col]jammer[col]2.3[col]1.2[col]VP Baltar[col]2.7[col]1[col]SensFan[col]2.6[col]0.8[col]Zachrulez[col]3.4[col]0.8[col]blackcatcontract[col]2.5[col]0.8[col]Kairyuu[col]1[col]0.4[col]Debonair Danny DiPietro[col]1[col]0.4[col]SpyreX[col]0.5[col]0.3[col]Cephrir[col]0.5[col]0.2[col][col][col][col]

Looking at this table, the top 5 people on my scum-list (based on actions, not on lurking) are in the top 5 spots after me. This is probably because I am not able to find scummy things from people who don't post a lot, and so I focus on the more-active people, which allows scum-lurking to be a successful strategy. Which is bad.

That's one of the scummiest things I've seen this game. It's allowing you to brush people with the "scummy lurker" label when they're not actually lurking.

Takeme, for example. I rank 10th of 15 on your list, but I'd argue I'm contributing more than at least half the people above me. This is because having a higher number of posts just means you spam the thread, and having thousands of characters per day

is more likely than not hurting the Town.

Oh, and you know your 'activity table' has massive issues when you have Mastin ranked 6/15...

[SensFan]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/search.p ... hor=Mastin

7 posts and 36 hours since Mastin was taking a break to eat.

[SensFan]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/search.p ... hor=Mastin

7 posts and 36 hours since Mastin was taking a break to eat.

7/16, at 2:33 PM, Mastin said:

End page three.
This is fun, but I gotta eat lunch.

His next post was 4 minutes later.
And his next one was 3 minutes after that.
Then yet another post 18 minutes later.
Then, 20, 18, 4, and 2.

So that's 7 posts in about an hour. Mastin did NOT stop posting in this game because he had to eat, he stopped posting because he was posting in other games.

And then he made the same "eating" excuse after his last game, and although there were no posts elsewhere after this, I don't know why town-Mastin would feel the need to make excuses the last two times he's stopped posting.

It is unacceptable to catch up at a rate of 1 page every 2 days.

I think you misunderstood me, I was making the same point as you, that he's lurker-scum.

I think I might break out a wall-o-words sometime today/tonight. We've had enough discussion today, and it's about time we lynched this scumbag and moved on.

[SensFan]

(Caught up through page 23)

Alex, I didn't even bother reading 535. Either condense it to 200 words or less, or you won't get a response.

[SensFan]

This camn wagon is the worst wagon I've ever seen.

If camn is lynched today, I will consider everyone off the wagon to be confirmed for the rest of the game, since there's no way that many Town will have voted her.

---

Alex or Mastin needs to be lynched today.

The former for having his vote on me that he's not willing to explain in 200 words or less.
The latter for having read up to page fucking 4, despite posting everywhere else.

Seriously, I think most of the Scum are working hard to divert the Mastin wagon right now. I'm looking at the people that were fighting over him earlier as well: GIEFF, Alex, someone else.

[SensFan]

alex.

Any post you make over 200 wordss, I will not even so much as skim. Make your posts short (200 words is more than you need for a D1 case), or I won't read/respond to them.

---

GIEFF, I said what I did because there's no way 6 Town will vote for Camn today. It just won't happen.

[SensFan]

This camn wagon is the worst wagon I've ever seen.

If camn is lynched today, I will consider everyone off the wagon to be confirmed for the rest of the game, since there's no way that many Town will have voted her.

Why would you say, that a Camn-wagon is a bad wagon?
When at that same time you are so confident, there is no way 6 town will vote Camn anyway? Why warn scum?

I said its a bad wagon because Camn has quite clearly been one of the most obvtown people.
And I don't believe its humanly possible for 6 Town to vote Camn. The only way that would happen is Camn keeps voting herself, and Alex/Mastin/GIEFF/jammer/Benmage are somehow Town.

[SensFan]

Not interested in a jammer lynch today.

We have some VIs in our game, that are acting VIish.
We have Mastin, who is known to lurk specifically as Scum, lurking.
We lynch Mastin today, then move on to deal with the VIs tomorrow.

[SensFan]

Not interested in a jammer lynch today.

We have some VIs in our game, that are acting VIish.
We have Mastin, who is known to lurk specifically as Scum, lurking.
We lynch Mastin today, then move on to deal with the VIs tomorrow.

VI = ?

And for the last time, I dont think Mastin lurking is a scumtell.

BM

Village Idiot.

And how are you willing to discount the plethora of Mastin meta, then?

[SensFan]

Not interested in a jammer lynch today.

We have some VIs in our game, that are acting VIish.
We have Mastin, who is known to lurk specifically as Scum, lurking.
We lynch Mastin today, then move on to deal with the VIs tomorrow.

VI = ?

And for the last time, I dont think Mastin lurking is a scumtell.

BM

Village Idiot.

And how are you willing to discount the plethora of Mastin meta, then?

Simple. My own meta. I'm not discussing this anymore.

Did you read my post on Jammer? How would you explain away that glaring inconsistency? And what is your stance towards Alex again?

BM

Alex and jammer would be obvious lynches in 95% of D1s.

The fact the game also features Mastin and Benmage means they might live a little longer than their play deserves.

[SensFan]

SF waits till Mastin is at L-1, then hammers instantly. I thought that was clear?

What the fuck are you talking about?
When have I ever said I wanted to hammer Mastin?

[SensFan]

I'm not going to end discussion and quickhammer.
I meant that as in days dragging on and on without anyone having the balls to hammer.

[SensFan]

Christ, guys. Stop spamming this thread, and let's agree on a fucking lynch.

Mastin or Alex should be lynched.
Jammer and Benmage lynches would be fine as well.
People who aren't named's lynch wouldn't affect this game, since they aren't posting. They probably shouldn't be lynched, but its better than nothing.
Perhaps surprisingly, I don't like a GIEFF lynch anymore, but will support if if needed.
I will only vote BM/Camn/KMD/Sens at a deadline, to avoid a No Lynch.

[SensFan]

Christ, guys. Stop spamming this thread, and let's agree on a fucking lynch.

Mastin or Alex should be lynched.
Jammer and Benmage lynches would be fine as well.
People who aren't named's lynch wouldn't affect this game, since they aren't posting. They probably shouldn't be lynched, but its better than nothing.
Perhaps surprisingly, I don't like a GIEFF lynch anymore, but will support if if needed.
I don't like a Zach lynch at all.
I will only vote BM/Camn/KMD/Sens at a deadline, to avoid a No Lynch.

Edited, since I forgot Zach.

[SensFan]

Vote: Benmage

No, I haven't read any of your walls.
No, I don't plan on reading them.
No, I don't think any sane Town player writes that much overnight.
No, I don't think you're insane.

[SensFan]

I've read to page 49. If there's anything you want me to address in that span, let me know. Also, slow the fuck down with the posting: I work 9-hour shifts this summer and will not spend my mornings/nights reading more than 5 pages per day of this game.

Benmage, if you are as afraid of having been NK'dd as you claim, you wouldn't have written all that shit overnight.

Also, if people are going to be posting this much, I'd appreciate coming home from work tomorrow and seeing Alex or Benmage's lynch scene. Even if they were to flip Town.

Thanks!

[SensFan]

i support

lurkerlynches

walllynches of all kinds.

Plus, even if

he is

they are town,

GIEFF

Benmage and Alex

is not an asset to this game

should be lynched ASAP.

If I got the chance to have Alex and benmage (and any other people that are posting way too much) replaces with massive lurkers, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

[SensFan]

Unvote, Vote: Cephir

Haven't read a post since my last post.

See you all tomorrow.

[SensFan]

Let's hope you're 2/2 on the quicklynch, Sens....


How confident are you that Cephrir is scum?

It's a random lynch, as far as I'm concerned.

The Zazie quicklynch, I had her pegged as Scum.
This one, I saw it as being possibly the only chance for a lynch in a very long time. Besides, he was completely unreadable.
We'll get to lynching the actual scummy people tomorrow.

[SensFan]

In the US, so still not able to catch up.

Just skimmed this game, though (yes, I'm visiting my girlfriend for the first time and I spent time reading 5 pages of a Mafia game that pisses me off to no end).

There's 3 Scum. Not 2. Not 4. 3.
Way to call me a main wagon target and all this while I'm not here. Especially calling me out and claiming you want more content from me.

Alex is probably Scum. I could settle for a BM lynch, since he has gone way downhill in the last little while.

---

I get home tomorrow night, and will then catch up sometime wednesday.
And yes, whoever said that. I think its perfectly reasonable that if I'm away for 3 days it takes me a day or so to catch up on this ridiculous amount of posting, especially since I work 10-hour days.

[SensFan]

Posting this in my sig and all ongoing games:
I just got fired from my job. V/LA until further notice.

[SensFan]

Vi found Scum in DDD.
Vi probably also found Scum in Zach.
I'm thinking the last Scum is probably one of alex/Benmage/jammer/GIEFF

Have a good day.

[SensFan]

To KMD, Alex, and whoever else it may concern.

There are 3 Scum. That's it, that's all. There is a slight chance there is 2 Scum. There is no chance that there are 4 Scum. None. Zero. Nada.

Town win rate, based on number of Scum:

0 Scum: 1.000
1 Scum: 0.6817
2 Scum: 0.4301
3 Scum: 0.2452
4 Scum: 0.1218
5 Scum: 0.0497
6 Scum: 0.0149
7 Scum: 0.0025
8 Scum: 0.0000

[SensFan]

The nature of his lurking is the issue at hand. He's here. He's choosing not to play. He's came out and OMGUS'd me based on moon logic.

Bullshit, just because I don't produce the spew that so many in this game have doesn't mean I've not been playing. And your attempts to push for my lynch based on playstyle grounds or Ben's unspecified meta arguments are incredibly poor and a little insulting as well. You don't think I consider these things when I'm starting a new game?

Also lulz @ Sens, the irony cake is delicious.

Which irony?

[SensFan]

The nature of his lurking is the issue at hand. He's here. He's choosing not to play. He's came out and OMGUS'd me based on moon logic.

Bullshit, just because I don't produce the spew that so many in this game have doesn't mean I've not been playing. And your attempts to push for my lynch based on playstyle grounds or Ben's unspecified meta arguments are incredibly poor and a little insulting as well. You don't think I consider these things when I'm starting a new game?

Also lulz @ Sens, the irony cake is delicious.

Which irony?

The only case that's been made against me is "oh nos Danny is lurking", you come in and say I'm scum with no new reasons so I have to assume that's your primary reason. Except you've done mostly the same thing (yes I know you had V/LA for some of the time) which makes that argument hilariously dubious coming from you.

Except, you know, I haven't lurked at all this game.

[SensFan]

SF, why haven't you voted anyone? What are you waiting for? Whose scummiest for you?

DDD is scummiest.

Why are you rushing me to vote?

[SensFan]

This game started a month ago.

14 of your 35 posts have come in the past week, when you've been suspected.
---That's 40%
15 of the 80 pages have come in that same week
---That's 18%

You're a lurker.

-------

To illustrate the difference between me and you:

You don't post at all, but show up right whenever your name is mentioned.
I post frequently for most of the game, but have been gone for a week or so, despite the fact several people asked me to contribute.

You're a lurker.

[SensFan]

Ben, you think maybe if I throw a small fit and self-vote maybe you clowns would see reason?

Sens, I have more posts than you over days two and three and half the people here seem to think I'm the worst lurker of all-time, you fo the math.

Comparing yourself to SF's to prove you aren't a lurker is comical.. That woulda been bcc tell cephrir he wasn't a lurker.

Again imagine everyone let these people lead this day's direction:
DDD
SpryeX
KmD
SF
jammer

one month later.....1 page.

And this is why I'm not voting anyone, because you seem so desparate for a lynch on DDD. So desparate, that you blatantly misrepresent several people on that list.

For example, this game has been going on for a month, including nights. I was gone a week or so. I still have 55 posts, which would fill more than 2 full pages by myself.

---

I guarantee you 100% that if those people who post the amount I do or less were posting, we'd have 1 or 2 Scum lynches at least.

[SensFan]

I still have 55 posts, which would fill more than 2 full pages by myself..

Its not even your post#...your posts also have such little scumhunting in them, you could have 5,55,or100 of the way you post and its not much of a difference.

I guarantee you 100% that if those people who post the amount I do or less were posting, we'd have 1 or 2 Scum lynches at least.

Are you saying those who post less than you need to post more? Or those who post than you need to post less?

I'm saying that people posting more often than once or twice a day are probably posting far too often, and hurting the Town.

[SensFan]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 30#1704030

Hmm....

For this game, you know there to be four Mafia goons and eight vanilla townies.

4 scum in just a 12 player game with an additional restriction on the town.


If StrangerCoug can make a really unbalanced mountainous open setup, maybe we shouldn't be so confident that this closed setup adheres to theoretical balance.


What do you think, jammer and Sens?

Not only did Benmage answer you, but I can tell you with absolute 100% certainty that the number of Scum in this game is less than or equal to 3. I can guarantee you that, no questions asked.

[SensFan]

@SensFan 1974: Why did you pick those four for the third scum?

A combination of scum reads on them and town reads on several others.
Yourself included.

[SensFan]

*shrug*

Vote: KMD

[SensFan]

Christ.

Someone posts a case, I agree with it and vote. What the fuck is wrong with that?

[SensFan]

Christ.

Someone posts a case, I agree with it and vote. What the fuck is wrong with that?

You agreed with othercases/found people scummy and withheld votes.
Can you at least highlight what aspects about the case you agree with? ***(You too DDD)

I never withheld votes on people I found scummy to the point of stopping a lynch.
This looks like a wagon that might actually go to a lynch, so I'm helping it go.

[SensFan]

I fail to see how that's 'damning' at all that someone I hadn't talked about in a long time had a case made against him and I agreed with it.

[SensFan]

And I'll vote/hammer him if he's going to be lynched.

I seriously don't see the issue here.

[SensFan]

Huh?

[SensFan]

I've been told off for voting SensFan because people claimed it was his playstyle. But if his playstyle means willing to be unhelpful, inconsistent and scummy I'm totally willing to lynch him.

Actually, my playstyle is pretty much the opposite of what you've described.
My pay in this game is also nowhere near what you've described, though I admit I'm behind my usual standard. Other priorities, and I don't give a flying fuck if you want to lynch me because of it. If it weren't for the fact this was a YawMod game, I'd have requested replacement N0, and absolutely nothing that has happened since has put any more want in me to play this game with people like you.

[SensFan]

Playerlist.

[SensFan]

I'm especially bothered that he went out of his way to assure us he wouldn't hammer Mastin and cut off discussion on a quick lynch on day 1

Hah, you realize I was just waiting to hammer Mastin the first chance I got, right?

GIEFF, no. I knew Cephir had to be lynched, and there were no worse than random odds.

[SensFan]

SensFan should replace out if he is going to keep doing the anti-town 'cause I'm a rebel play...

I asked you already, show me where I'm being anti-Town.
I seriously don't see it.

[SensFan]

That's reverse of the way it should be.
You need to show me where I did things that indicate Scum.

[SensFan]

It is impossible to say "Look, I'm Town here", or at least useless, since anyone in their right mind will just add that to every one of their posts.

If you're trying to make a case against me, you need to actually make a fucking case! Seriously, that's how Mafia is played: you find someone scummy, you need to make a case! You can't just say "You're Scum unless you prove otherwise!"

[SensFan]

If it weren't for the fact this was a YawMod game, I'd have requested replacement N0, and absolutely nothing that has happened since has put any more want in me to play this game with people like you.

What is YawMod worth to you? You had more than enough opportunity to skip out D1

as long as you didn't pick up prods

.

I am extremely Town in making this post.

Yaw's probably the person I talk to most on MS, and in my opinion one of the best players and Mods on-site. I finally got the chance to play with him in Read Your Role (and...ermm...killed him N1), and when he told me he was modding a game, I told him I was in.

[SensFan]

With that said: The defense of "got nothing on me coppa" means absolutely nothing. Not playing in the game is anti-town. Pick it up or get lynched. This is the callout.

But...there STILL hasn't been anything I can defend against...

[SensFan]

Benmage. This is your last warning.

Either explain in detail exactly why you feel I have been "useless", or

shut the fuck up.

[SensFan]

Your continued insistence that I "quicklynched a townie yesterday without even reading the thread" is bullshit.

First of all, you know I favour quicklynches as Town, since you've seen me do it.
Secondly, you say that as if we knew Cephir was a Townie before he was lynched.
Thirdly, you're putting the blame on me, when there were 6 other people on the wagon, equally to blame.
Fourthly, I had read and posted earlier in the day.
Fifth, ending discussion was a godsend. We've had far too much of it.

[SensFan]

I'll respond to the rest later, GIEFF, but in my timezone both the hammer and my previous post were on Wednesday, though 19 hours apart.

And yes. I guarantee you I won't be NK'd this game.

[SensFan]

Benmage, stop being a dumbass.
If I don't have time to respond to the person that's making a case against me, I sure as hell don't have time to respond to the person who's asking me to prove I'm Town, and refusing to show why he thinks I'm Scum.

[SensFan]

Notice I said that Sens is becoming more DDD-like. The issue with DDD isn't just the lurking, its the TYPE of lurking. That is the difference.

Except for the whole game, Sens has been posting on a consistent basis, not when his name gets brought up. the latter is what DDD was doing.

So, basically, no.

[SensFan]

Thats why I said MORE. Notice how quickly you replied to this.

It is NOT the same, hence why I am voting for DDD and not you.

I probably check this game 20-30 times a day. Of course I'll respond with a quick post if I'm asked a question.

That's normal, not scummy.

[SensFan]

Make a case, and I'll respond.

I'm not going to make a Town-case on myself.

[SensFan]

Hmmmm...so only Vi and DDD have posted since my last post. Wierd.

[SensFan]

Hmmmm...so only Vi and DDD have posted since my last post. Wierd.

I don't think they've implemented the Ignore User option yet.

I'm sorry, but I don't understand. Am I missing someone's post? I just checked again, and you and DD are the only two mafia players to have posted between my posts.

[SensFan]

(Sorry for the double post)

I was rereading my post, and I think I need to clarify something. I define someone playing mafia as someone who understands the basic elements of the game, knows how to make a case on people they are calling Scum, and doesn't expect people to clear themselves by making Town-cases on themselves.

Again, sorry for the double post.

[SensFan]

Thank you, Vi.

And for the ijits that need it explained:
I am not speculating about Night Kills. I am saying that there is an absolute 0% chance that I will be killed. That's just plain common sense, given that half of you want me lynched, and I have no power role. Furthermore, that comment cannot hurt the Town, since if the Scum actually do Night Kill me, I become confirmed Town and you can all realize how wrong and Scum you are.

[SensFan]

Yes, and that Sens-quote was in response to a direct question from me.

So while it's not OMGSCUMLYNCHIMNOW scummy, it is still odd, and Sens still hasn't explained why scum wouldn't try to kill him if Cephrir flipped scum.

If Sens were town, he'd think there were at least a possibility that Cephrir were town, right? And hammering scum like that would make him viewed as ultra-townie the next day, so I'd think he'd be VERY scared of getting NK'd that night, pending Cephrir's alignment.

Right?

No.

Sens knows the people in this game. As do the Scum. And both Sens and the Scum know that even if Cephir had flipped Scum, there would only have been calls of 'BUS!' And if Sens had been killed, it would have done the entire game a huge favour. Maybe Sens was even trying to draw the kill. Either way, its obvious how far better off the Town would be if Sens had been, or will be, killed.

[SensFan]

Either way, its obvious how far better off the Town would be if Sens had been, or will be, killed.

Moment of silence... *slow-clap*... QFT.

Hypocrite.

Not five posts ago, you agreed with Zach that I was scummy for assuming I wouldn't be killed. Now you're giving me a sarcastic clap in that you know how better off the Town would be if I was killed, which means you know as well as I do that I won't be killed.

Scum hypocrite.

Unvote, Vote: Benmage

[SensFan]

@Benmage: I am not willing to lynch DDD today.

You may have answered this already, but it's late at night so I'm going to ask again: Why?

I haven't seen a case against him that is anything more than lurking. I'm done with lynching lurkers. If lurking is part of a scummy pattern of behavior, then yeah, but no lynches that are based almost solely on activity.

He's not a lurker. He's an admitted active lurker.

Big difference.

[SensFan]

I've made several.

[SensFan]

So I read this game. Then I made a post. The combined assault on Benmage, GIEFF, and alex probably would have gotten me banned.
So I edited the post. It was probably still banworthy.
So I erased the post, and started again. Still banworthy.
So I erased the post and decided to only talk about stuff that won't involve me getting banned.

Voila.

---

See you all in at least a couple of days. I need to get away from this game.

[SensFan]

I strongly suggest no one answer the "Everyone - 2" question. Just asking the question would have me voting alex, if this game didn't have too many VIs to count.

[SensFan]

alex, I read this game probably more than the rest of you combined.

[SensFan]

I'm not lurking in the slightest.
I make cases, people just aren't listening.
I hammered someone we couldn't have read anyways. And the days have been anything but "quick".

Sorry, GIEFF, try again.

[SensFan]

I make cases, people just aren't listening.

Multiple people have asked you multiple times to link to the cases you have made, and you've refused to do so. If you want us to "listen", you have to listen, too.

Go look for yourself.

Benmage, jammer, GIEFF, alex, and Mastin, off the top of my head, are people I made cases against.

[SensFan]

I could go further with this, but before I do that I'd like for SensFan to pick up on the hints that I'd like to know why his vote is on someone who's frankly obvTown.

Because I don't find him obvTown at all, obviously.

The fact you're so concerned about my voting someone who have a Town read on is worrying.

[SensFan]

I could go further with this, but before I do that I'd like for SensFan to pick up on the hints that I'd like to know why his vote is on someone who's frankly obvTown.

Because I don't find him obvTown at all, obviously.

The fact you're so concerned about my voting someone who have a Town read on is worrying.

So do you think I'm scum?

Why is Benmage scum?

I don't "think you're Scum." You know better than to deal in absolutes like that.

Benmage is Scum for various reasons, many of which I've given over the course of the game.

[SensFan]

To explain the last one, since I think its a huge tell:

If he thinks my death would be extremely pro-Town, then surely the Scum also realize that, since its basically guaranteed there's some Scum who have been pushing my wagon, due to the sheer volume of people that have pushed for my lynch. Therefore, the Scum won't kill me. Therefore, I can state I won't be killed, with absolute certainty. So how could that possibly be scummy?

Let's look at it starting from the other end, to be sure:

He thinks its scummy that I'm saying I won't be killed, so he thinks I'll be using that as a reason for why I won't be killed (or, more vaguely, for why Scum kill whoever they do). By that logic, he must think there's at least some sort of chance for me to be killed, since otherwise I won't need to explain why I'm not dieing. So if there's a decent chance of me being scumkilled, then clearly my death wouldn't be all that pro-Town, or else the Scum wouldn't kill me.

Whichever way you look at it, there's no consistency.

---

As far as the first part, it was just "a little red flag", as you put it.

[SensFan]

@SensFan

Benmage, jammer, GIEFF, alex, and Mastin, off the top of my head, are people I made cases against.

I've actually looked and you should do it too... You started by calling Jammer, me and GIEFF were scum... suddenly, you added Mastin and voted him because he was the biggest waggon. You never made cases about that people... Just claimed experience and stuff and called everyone else a VI.

First of all, for all the people calling me scummy for supposedly not making any cases, I find it ironic and scummy that no one's made a case on me that I can respond to.
Secondly, stop lying. I was one of the first people to call Mastin scummy. For very explicit and explained reasons.
Thirdly, stop lying. I never brushed anything off by claiming experience.

[SensFan]

Seriously, guys.

SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT THE KILL.

Its something the Scum have 100% control over, and I'm betting most/all of the Scum are now trying to use that to also control the Day phase.

Discussing and stating opinions about the Night Kill = Not Fucking Healthy
Shutting the fuck up about stuff the Scum has full control over = Healthy

I will not be repeating myself again.

Why do you ignore your own advice? Why DID you even said you were not going to be killed? What did that accomplish?

Read the fucking goddamn thread, dumbass.
I explained that several times.

[SensFan]

To explain the last one, since I think its a huge tell:

If he thinks my death would be extremely pro-Town, then surely the Scum also realize that, since its basically guaranteed there's some Scum who have been pushing my wagon, due to the sheer volume of people that have pushed for my lynch. Therefore, the Scum won't kill me. Therefore, I can state I won't be killed, with absolute certainty. So how could that possibly be scummy?

Let's look at it starting from the other end, to be sure:

He thinks its scummy that I'm saying I won't be killed, so he thinks I'll be using that as a reason for why I won't be killed (or, more vaguely, for why Scum kill whoever they do). By that logic, he must think there's at least some sort of chance for me to be killed, since otherwise I won't need to explain why I'm not dieing. So if there's a decent chance of me being scumkilled, then clearly my death wouldn't be all that pro-Town, or else the Scum wouldn't kill me.

Whichever way you look at it, there's no consistency.

If we take away the assumption that you're Town, there's plenty of consistency. Not only would you not be killed, but your death would be good for the Town.

I find something extremely scummy. You don't.

Why are you dwelling so much on it?

[SensFan]

You know what, I'm done trying. This is the last post you'll see from me in this game. The only exception would be if Yaw gets me to post to avoid prods or replacement, which I will then do.

Everything I've ever posted in this thread has been misinterpretted so much, and by so many different people, that at least half of who must be Town who are just too fucking dumb to know any better, and I won't waste my time trying to convince alex, Benmage, and probably others that I'm forgetting that I'm not playing scummy at all, when they probably struggle with understanding half the words in my posts. The people here that I know are good players, namely Vi and GIEFF, I think are probably Scum, since neither of them are playing anywhere near the level I know they can as it relates to me.

And to be honest, this isn't the best game I've ever played. Hell, this may very well be the worse game I've ever played. This is also the game I've played with the highest concentration of complete dumbasses. On top of that, I lost my job, I'm preparing to go back to school, I may end up being kicked out of my house for the summer, and I'm more stressed than I can ever remember being, and this game is making me physically sick more often than not.

So fuck you.

And if this is in any way a scum-fuelled attempt to attack me like this and get me off my game, then as far as I care, you can go to Hell, since you've literally made me sick, made a tough time in my life that much harder, and have made me contemplate quitting the site.

[SensFan]

Yeah, yeah. I'm still reading along.

GIEFF is Scum. I'll have a case up when I can, hopefully before deadline, though I can't guarantee it, unfortunately. I'm going out of town for a week or so tomorrow.

[SensFan]

I know that, GIEFF. I may have some sort of access while out of town. Hence why I said I couldn't guarantee it.

Benmage, not sure. Either alex is Scum or just I can't read him, though, so I want him lynched at some point. Other than that, I think KMD and/or Spyrex might be buddying to me, but since they're the only people I haven't wanted to strangle, I don't want them lynched at all. A DDD lynch would be fine.

I may be forgetting some people.

[SensFan]

I'm not sure. I remember him being obvtown D1, for example, then I think I had concerns about some stuff he did D2 or D3, but I don't remember which. But then he's lurked for forever, so I don't really remember how strong either of those two reads were.

[SensFan]

I find it odd that Vi heavily criticized me for not posting, and has now failed to even comment that I've been posting, let alone ask me questions.

[SensFan]

Still on V/LA.

I'll see if my girlfriend will let me get on close to deadline to hammer anyone I can. We desparately need a lynch today.

Vote: GIEFF

, since I prefer him to a Spyrex lynch, but like I said, I'll hammer if I can later.

[SensFan]

I swear people live for making me eat my words like that. But whatever works.

If you wouldn't accuse people on V/LA of purposely not posting or being replaced, you wouldn't have to eat your words.

[SensFan]

...alright, so now I have to go back and completely disregard anything GIEFF said with regards to anything, since he decided at some point to purposely play against his wincon, and so we have to assume he decided that pre-game.

I hate people that throw games.

[SensFan]

I hate people that throw games.

Omg lol, are you the pot, or the kettle.

I couldn't resist! welcome back. Wow I did not see Vi being the kill target of the night.

Shut the fuck up this instant.

Never, ever, ever imply again that I do not play to win. Ever.

[SensFan]

Vote: Benmage

I've seen enough bullshit from you.

[SensFan]

Vote: Benmage

I've seen enough bullshit from you.

Please, go back to not playing.

If I recall correctly, you're one of those people that needs a case typed and pointed out so you can understand it; here you go:
*You wrote monstrous amounts of stuff overnight
*You have tried to get me lynched forever, without ever making a case
*You yelled at me for saying I wouldn't be killed, then just said you were surprised you weren't
*You voted Zach for posting a vote analysis, saying you think people that lynched 3/3 Townies are more likely Town
*Your signal:noise ratio is far too low

And that's off the top of my head.

[SensFan]

Please add:
*You continuously try to imply I'm not playing, expecially when I attack certain people

[SensFan]

Anyone still blabbering about the possibility of 4 Scum needs to stop.

[SensFan]

alex.

I\ve explained in fucking detail why I guarantee there are not 4 Scum.
I haven't appealed to fucking emotion once this game, you poelpe were literally making me sick.

[SensFan]

Responding to prod.

Forgot about this game, sorry.

[SensFan]

Yeah, I'm happy with my vote. For now, anyways.

Benmage has done nothing but tunnel on me since Day 1, and his complete lack of willingness to look elsewhere just isn't something Town would do.

[SensFan]

Yeah, I'm happy with my vote. For now, anyways.

Benmage has done nothing but tunnel on me since Day 1, and his complete lack of willingness to look elsewhere just isn't something Town would do.

...Not only am I not voting I can't even recall the last time I was voting for you. Yet for 2 game days now(?) you've had your vote sit on me uselessly. Sigh.

1) You don't need to be voting me; you've been making comments and one-liners all game long. If anything, given the constant amount of suspicion on me, that's far worse than if you had been voting me, since it reads of someone trying to tip people into wagoning me without having to go on record by voting me. Its especially strange that you would deny tunnelling on me 2 posts after you imply I lied about forgetting about this game.
2) How is it useless? I vote the person I think is most likely to be Scum, unless I need to move onto someone else for a lynch to happen. When we were facing a looming deadline, I moved onto GIEFF. So how exactly is it useless for my vote to sit on the person I find scummiest?

[SensFan]

2. It gets me out of L-1.

Town want to help out the Scum.
Scum want to not get lynched.

Guess which category you just admitted to being in?

[SensFan]

.... really?

KMD and Jammer go at it for a couple rounds and then makeup to land on BM?

Not buying it. Not one bit.

Both of em are scum after that maneuver.

This I agree with.

[SensFan]

I'm willing to hammer, but you people seem to not like quickhammer, so I'm giving 24 hours warning. I hammer tomorrow at about this time.

[SensFan]

I know I said I'd give 24 hours.
After each of the 2 people supported the hammer, I would have done so had they been off the wagon.
I was tempted to hammer after I had the support of at the very least 2 on the wagon.
Then I saw the massive AtE jammer is trying to pull.

Unvote, Vote: jammer

[SensFan]

yay lylo

[SensFan]

I think I'm with Battle Mage on this one. I mean, this game has obviously been scumdriven to hell, given we mislynched 4 straight times. I don't think any Town player would have gotten away with so little suspicion, especially with me (Mr.Mislynch in this game) having pounded away at him since the start, giving Scum a scapegoat for the mislynch.

Pseudovote: Benmage

[SensFan]

Uninspiring.

Vote: Benmage

[SensFan]

*shrug* I'd have to go and reread this entire game, which won't happen, but I don't think it was a matter of Scum playing well, as much as it was that Town (myself included) were absolutely terrible.

[SensFan]

SF whyyyyy I finally looked past the personal dislike, i wish you would've.

It had nothing to do with personal dislike, I found you obvscum.
And I'm pretty sure it was the Scum that kept trying to convince me otherwise.

[SensFan]

At any rate, I don't really think we have an excuse for not lynching DDD as town.

Its called SF.

How the hell are you going to blame that one on me?
Say what you want about my play, which I have admitted was horrible, I wasn't lurking in the slightest.
Seriously, stop kicking the dead horse.

[SensFan]

But your point is a good one, hasd - Yaw had just 36 hours to replace Cephrir after the night check-in. That's more on Cephrir (and Sensfan for quickhammering) than on Yaw. But just because Cephrir and Mastin played horribly doesn't let Yaw off the hook completely. At a certain point, you have to realize that these players are ruining the game, and take action, especially when you have people waiting in the wings to replace in.

I'd argue that the people causing the lurking(wallers), were ruining the game more than the lurkers, because they were the ones causing the lurking. Yaw did the best he could having to keep up with this ridiculously fast game, and if he has trouble, you can't expect everyone to post as much as you did.

This.
A million times this.
I basically stopped caring about this game when I pointed this out several times, only to be replied with 'STOP LURKING SCUMBAG'

[SensFan]

At any rate, I don't really think we have an excuse for not lynching DDD as town.

Its called SF.

How the hell are you going to blame that one on me?
Say what you want about my play, which I have admitted was horrible, I wasn't lurking in the slightest.
Seriously, stop kicking the dead horse.

dude. At least be honest.

Your extremely anti-town play made it possible for other people to be upfront about their anti-towness and suffer no consequences.

Usually people will try to avoid being anti-town when called upon it. But you, as DDD, were defiant.

So yeah. You were an important factor for DDD's survival.

You seem to think I was so anti-Town, when you really mean to say that I couldn't possibly keep up analyzing this game to find Scumbags, and the mere thought of maybe rereading was a complete joke.

[SensFan]

I basically stopped caring about this game when I pointed this out several times, only to be replied with 'STOP LURKING SCUMBAG'

And that's the worst lack of respect you've shown to the rest of us... You DIDNT CARE about the game and refused to be replaced.

I was doing my best to keep up.