Mafia 105 - Caught in the Crossfire (Game Over)

[charter]

/confirm

[charter]

Vote Count, Day 1

Not Voting (25) All

With 25 alive, 13 needed to reach a majority.
Deadline is at December 1st, 11am EST

Guys, if this game could be as awesome as TDC's large normal, that would be awesome. Rofl, you know what I'm talking about.

[charter]

Slash, hey everyone! I <3 in this game.

[charter]

Also, sorry guys, I am drunk, but seriously, <3 elvis and rofl. And hoopla.

[charter]

VOTE SPYREX!

Traitorous scum!

Now that that is out of the way, I think pops is scum. I actually have like five likely scum candidates, which is kind of awesome. Others to include: imaginality, Energetic Penguin, and hitogoroshi.

unvote, vote Pops

Pops for his K7 tangent and his 'why aren't you opposed to Hoopla's avatar' comments.
imaginality for posting to say he isn't going to post.
Energetic Penguin for his FOS of Sigma and then vote for Hoopla.
hitogoroshi because I don't like his last two posts.

I don't think sigma is scum.

[charter]

And how praytell am I traitorous mr.I am a paranoid cop but the town STILL lynches your investigation because you hit scum day one?

Not that I'm bitter.

---

That said, I'm not getting any super vibes yet. I'm a little flabbergasted that charter has 5 suspects from this mess.

Hmmm, better hope it doesn't happen again.

If you were a daycop, which of the people I listed would you investigate and why?

[charter]

Good lord.

Confid's vote in 155 looks a helluva lot like he is scum and Spyrex is town. Pretty classic BS reason that sounds good for jumping on to a wagon. Confid, you have anything else to say about Spyrex, or are you just going to sit pretty with a vote on him for "being defensive".

CSL's entrance is really horrible. Horribly scummy. CSL, why did you vote hiphop? Why did you almost immediately unvote hiphop? Are you planning on doing anything in this game or should we just lynch you now?

201, pretty good point by rofl about Confid doing this right after sigma voiced suspicion of Confid.

229, Confid is just pretending like he isn't doing anything scummy. It's about to catchup to him. He's also clearly scum.

unvote, vote Confid

248, crypto is obviously Confid's buddy. Votes maemuki for a bad reason why claiming to be suspicious of CSL and Confid (two way dodgier players) while unvoting Confid. Pretty much is waving a giant sign saying "HEY GUYS, WE'RE SCUMBUDDIES".

298, Pops is a third scum. If I was a daycop this game... His post comes back to OMGUS on me, then accuse me of "sprinkler scumhunting" on page five or whatever. Also claims to be suspicious of the Crypto/Confid pairing but does nothing about it.

319, Pops is accusing me of stuff I haven't done. Scum.

354, has Infinis said anything about Confid or crypto or someone who is actually scummy? If not, he's scum too.

370, Word.

Praying this is under the word limit, will try and follow up on this tonight.
Confid/crypto/Pops I might be able to dig another few later.

[charter]

298, Pops is a third scum. If I was a daycop this game... His post comes back to OMGUS on me, then accuse me of "sprinkler scumhunting" on page five or whatever. Also claims to be suspicious of the Crypto/Confid pairing but does nothing about it.

I labelled my post with the letters "OMGUS" sarcastically. OMGUS is an emotional effect that causes people to want to return votes, which, as a mafia vet, i believe i have under control. My vote on you had reasons and I explained them, it's not mere OMGUS.

The next clause of that sentence is you parroting what I said. Explain why I'm scummy. At the very least, explain how I'm wrong.

Oh, it's bad that I thought OMGUS was the best reason you had then. Your sprinkler scumhunting accusation is pretty terrible, not scummy either. The rest of this is wrong too. I'm not parroting what you said, it sounds like you're just trying to sound like you've got good accusations.

Hoopla still going on about crypto is pretty weird, since Crypto was Confid's buddy.

Idiotking not voting in 17 pages, and then coming back with a bad excuse for it is, in my opinion, a capitol crime which should carry a lynch, buuuuttt...

Ray's mindless arguing back and forth with Idiotking makes Idiotking look better and Ray worse. Idiotking's points were all pretty good, but Ray tries to discredit them without actually considering how good they are.

Oh dear, what a pickle. Idiotking's 'always replacing out' business.

I'm going to

vote Pops

because he is scum. I actually find Ray to be scummier than Idiotking, though both are being exceedingly useless. I'll get some good 'why everyone should vote Pops' reasoning in a bit.

Didn't really have any revelations from anyone else since my last post.

[charter]

Charter, the first paragraph of 476 is incomprehensible to me. No like "lol you're so wrong it doesn't make sense", but rather I can't figure out what you are saying. Restatement

I'm saying that your joke accusation of OMGUS was the best one you've leveled against me, which is why I originally thought it was serious.

This was the rest of why you voted for me:

The sprinkler system "scumhunting" looks pretty bad to me. You're posting things that have happened, not even in reason form, and then indicating suspicion towards several people for insubstantial reasons. It looks like scum that wants someone else to follow it up, wants several different angles to go to get a mislynch, and overall wants more bodies on the floor. I'm pretty surprised no one else is upset by this.

This was in response to my first post, and already Pops has accused me of faking scumhunting. Please explain how that works.
And yeah, the things I pointed out there are probably insubstantial in the long run, but at that point, that was all I had to go on, so I point it out instead of just an empty post.
Please explain how I "want someone else to follow up" on my accusations, and how you determined that off of my first post.

Other than a bunch of weak votes from you, I find nearly all of your posts to be reactionary to what other players are saying or doing.

Rofl, why infinis? What do you think about Pops?
Spyrex, what is the point of post 489? What do you think about Pops?

[charter]

Vote Count, Day 1

hiphop ( 0 )
Budja ( 1 ) SpyreX
charter ( 0 )
crypto ( 1 ) charter
CSL ( 1 ) - RedCoyote
elvis_knits ( 1 ) crypto
Energetic Penguin ( 5 ) hitogoroshi - popsofctown - hiphop - imaginality - Vi
hitogoroshi ( 0 )
Hoopla ( 0 )
Idiotking ( 4 ) RayFrost - Hoopla - sigma - elvis_knits
imaginality ( 0 )
Infinis ( 1 ) roflcopter
Juls ( 0 )
Maemuki ( 2 ) - Infinis - Pads
Pads ( 0 )
popsofctown ( 0 )
Psychologic ( 0 )
RayFrost ( 0 )
RedCoyote ( 0 )
roflcopter ( 0 )
sigma ( 1 ) - sotty7
Sotty7 ( 0 )
SpyreX ( 1 ) - Budja
Vi ( 0 )
Unvote ( 6 ) - Idiotking - EtherealCookie - Psychologic - Maemuki - CSL - Energetic Penguin
Total Votes ( 24 )

With 24 alive, 13 needed to reach a majority.
Deadline is at December 1st, 11am EST

298, Pops is a third scum. If I was a daycop this game... His post comes back to OMGUS on me, then accuse me of "sprinkler scumhunting" on page five or whatever. Also claims to be suspicious of the Crypto/Confid pairing but does nothing about it.

The next clause of that sentence is you parroting what I said. Explain why I'm scummy. At the very least, explain how I'm wrong.

In response to this, this is wrong. I'm saying that you claimed to be suspicious of Crypto/Confid, but you didn't do anything with that initially. Just added support to that verbally but didn't actually commit until it was pretty clear Confid was going down, and then you took your vote off immediately afterwards.

I wasn't parroting what you said, I was accusing you of claiming to be suspicious of Confid, but not voting them.

After a quick reflection, I think that the scummiest thing you've done is accusing me of faking my scumhunting after my first post, which I want you to describe how you arrived at a clearly wrong conclusion. I don't think a townie would have possibly thought that up. Next scummiest would be saying you're suspicious of Confid as he's going down, and then voting someone else who had no votes. Pretty clear you're scum.

Will go take a look at Elvis's crypto point and see if it doesn't add up.

[charter]

Checking the facts about Crypto.

192, rofl says Mae is town (I think he's the first)
193, Vi agrees.
crypto votes Mae in post 248.

Then crypto spends his time being vague and fighting off others when they ask for his reasoning.

He finally gives a case? (not really a case, a useless commentary on most of her posts) in post 307. None of the posts he mentions in there are after his vote.

I think it's much worse how he was very argumentative after people asked why he voted. He did wait until people call Mae town before he votes her, but I don't think any of his reasons are good for thinking she's scum. The only thing leaving doubt in mind is crypto looked a lot like Confid's buddy.

Pops:
You don't explain how, from a single post of mine, you determine that I am faking scumhunting. You just say my post is scummy. Accusing me of a scummy post is way more vague and general than the very specific faking scumhunting, which I'm positive you can't determine from one post.

I italicized mere information. I colored the analysis bright red with blue polka dots. I am sooo not a fan of thread narrators, and that's why I jumped on you out of the gate.

You forgot to color the part of my post where I call them "likely scum candidates" since I'm pretty sure that their posts weren't tagged with a "hey guys, I'm scum" stamp. That is me analyzing their posts. I also gave my analysis on sigma saying I don't think he's scum, since he was the top voteholder at the time, but hey, I guess that's just me keeping all my options open like you're saying.

As the scumCharter story goes, and you skepticism is already noted, i think you did it so that if any of those five people gained popularity you could claim founding fatherdom. And because I have never seen such broad and light FoS flinging be used as pro-town scumhunting

You don't really know how I play, I don't wait for people to gain popularity, I pick who I think is scummy and I make them gain popularity.

If you guys are all going to let Pops pull the wool over your eyes, I'm voting crypto because of his argumentative attitude when people asked for his reasons for voting. It might be understandable (not actually, though) if he later said he wanted reactions. I think his 517 is scummy too. Trying to get his opinion out but not justify it, just trying to get rofl to accept what he's saying. Not to mention his point is wrong, and then he says he knew that two posts later, which is also scummy. Crypto's vote for Elvis looks a preemptive OMGUS vote

rofl, why should I be voting infinis?

[charter]

Vote Count, Day 1

hiphop ( 0 )
Budja ( 1 ) SpyreX
charter ( 0 )
crypto ( 0 ) charter
CSL ( 1 ) - RedCoyote
elvis_knits ( 0 ) crypto
Energetic Penguin ( 5 ) hitogoroshi - popsofctown - hiphop - imaginality - Vi
hitogoroshi ( 0 )
Hoopla ( 0 )
Idiotking ( 4 ) RayFrost - Hoopla - sigma - elvis_knits
imaginality ( 0 )
Infinis ( 1 ) roflcopter
Juls ( 0 )
Maemuki ( 3 ) - Infinis - Pads
Pads ( 0 )
popsofctown ( 1 )
Psychologic ( 0 )
RayFrost ( 0 )
RedCoyote ( 0 )
roflcopter ( 0 )
sigma ( 1 ) - sotty7
Sotty7 ( 0 )
SpyreX ( 1 ) - Budja
Vi ( 0 )
Unvote ( 6 ) - Idiotking - EtherealCookie - Psychologic - Maemuki - CSL - Energetic Penguin
Total Votes ( 24 )

With 24 alive, 13 needed to reach a majority.
Deadline is at December 1st, 11am EST

Actually

unvote, vote crypto

for 517 and then taking it back two posts later saying he knew what he was saying wasn't true. Really not seeing any way that's town.

I'll deal with you later, Pops.

[charter]

if he later said he wanted reactions

I said that.

Argument fail.

That's still not actually a good reason to then get all defensive after people ask you. If you actually wanted reactions, there are much better ways of going about getting them where you don't need to sit there and argue and not answer requests.

Plus, it really doesn't have anything to do with why I'm voting you, and to try and get me off you by trying to undermine a single point of mine with this and ignore the rest is really scummy.

Crypto wagon folks. Get it done.

[charter]

taking it back two posts later saying he knew what he was saying wasn't true. Really not seeing any way that's town.

You are so pro ...

This is another phantom defense to a legitimate point. Kind of just digging your own grave here, but I'm not complaining.

[charter]

Pops, in order to form those conclusions I did analysis of their posts. My analysis was just (except maybe Spyrex) is going to be like "well, charter's gut said these five people are scum, so game, set, match". I guess I could have said my gut led me to come to those conclusions.

[charter]

Re: 530. Bullshit. That was a huge point.

If you agree that I really had a reason for my Mae vote but was holding off on revealing it, then why the heck do you think I wasn't reaction-fishing? You think I was just screwing around, deliberately doing what a few players will always construe as scummy, instead of just getting my ass in gear and posting my case?

I don't think your reason for voting Mae was any good, pretty sure I said as much too. Second, reaction fishing doesn't make you town, and the way you went about doing it was scummy. Arguing with people after they asked you questions is scummy.

This is another phantom defense to a legitimate point. Kind of just digging your own grave here, but I'm not complaining.

Sorry, no, a nonchalant concession about Mafia theory is not a scum tell.

You know for damn sure, Charter, that I am a jerk in 90% of alignment-relevant debates. Do not play that card on me.

I am pretty sure that I've never completed a game with you, so this is a pretty ridiculous claim to make, and no I don't know that.

And your concession is scummy because TWO POSTS BEFORE you said the opposite thing and then you conceded your point saying you knew it wasn't true. That's scummy.

[charter]

charter x crypto isn't convincing me of anything except that jerk meets jerk is not a pretty sight.

That's pretty insulting, so thanks. Did you read my reasons for voting crypto? You think that trying to pawn something off and then immediately saying you knew it wasn't true isn't scummy?

[charter]

And here is the scum tell to end all scum tells, in which Crypto admits to having known he was wrong before submitting his post:

Yeah, I knew I shouldn't have said that but I did anyway. I can't recall seeing it in any of my games.

Wait, what?

Where did I admit to having known I was wrong?

Oh, whatever. Hang me.

Yeah crypto, even though you didn't explicitly say it, the immediate backtrack pretty heavily shows that you knew what you said wasn't true. You weren't like "well, I don't think that, I've never seen scum use it" you say straight away that you shouldn't have posted it which shows that you knew it was bogus.

Obviously you now have to say you were ignorant to the fact that IIOA was a scumtell, but I doubt that is the case and there's really no way to verify that you were clueless and not just being scummy.

Spyrex, Vi explains this in post 573 really well, I think you're missing something.

[charter]

Alright, took a look at Infinis and yeah, I can lynch him first, the crypto issue will probably resolve itself quickly after that.

unvote, vote Infinis

[charter]

Wow

[charter]

Wow

Wow what?

crypto jumped on to Infinis, said he doesn't find Infinis scummy, and accused roflcopter of bussing Infinis all in the same post. There's like, three contradictions in a one liner post.

[charter]

Vote Count, Day 1

hiphop ( 0 )
Budja ( 1 ) SpyreX
charter ( 0 )
crypto ( 0 )
CSL ( 1 ) - RedCoyote
elvis_knits ( 0 )
Energetic Penguin ( 5 ) hitogoroshi - popsofctown - hiphop - imaginality - Vi
hitogoroshi ( 0 )
Hoopla ( 0 )
Idiotking ( 3 ) - Hoopla - sigma - elvis_knits
imaginality ( 0 )
Infinis ( 4 ) roflcopter - charter - RayFrost - crypto
EtherealCookie ( 0 )
Maemuki ( 2 ) - Infinis - Pads
Pads ( 0 )
popsofctown ( 0 )
Psychologic ( 0 )
RayFrost ( 0 )
RedCoyote ( 0 )
roflcopter ( 0 )
sigma ( 1 ) - sotty7
Sotty7 ( 0 )
SpyreX ( 1 ) - Budja
Vi ( 0 )
Unvote ( 6 ) - Idiotking - EtherealCookie - Psychologic - Maemuki - CSL - Energetic Penguin
Total Votes ( 24 )

With 24 alive, 13 needed to reach a majority.
Deadline is at December 1st, 11am EST

Charter, I accused myself of busing. I also said "that scummy," not "scummy." The qualifier makes a huge difference. Infinis is far from my choice for a wagon, but he certainly isn't a

bad

choice.

Oh, your post was really vague then. I just didn't get the same context as you meant.

[charter]

I think accusing Rofl of the bus would be a bit suicidal.

That's why I said what I did.

[charter]

Why is Infinis a better player to vote than crypto?

They're both scum and Infinis has more support.

RedCoyote is scum with Infinis and crypto. He seems to think that wagoning Confid was a mistake as well as what rofl said.

Pads is pretty much being useless. His top three suspects have a whopping two votes combined and he's not trying to convince anyone to vote his suspects.

[charter]

Yeah, crypto is still scum. This CSL nonsense is a distraction from the the real Infinis/crypto scumteam.

[charter]

Ok, crypto just confessed to being on scumteam B. I see this in the rules "a. This game will have at least one Mafia faction, and no more than two." I see nothing saying "there are two scumteams"

So, can we lynch crypto now?

[charter]

Yeah it implies there could be two scumgroups. Or it could be one mafia group with SK's and vigs. Doesn't account for crypto's post earlier.

Forgot my vote of crypto before.

unvote, vote crypto

His latest backtrack of "I would not be surprised if there is only one scumteam" is just trying to cover his tracks, but now he's flip flopped again.

Elvis, what are you doing?

I don't know why people are finding all these excuses for crypto, this is twice now he's been at the center of shady posts (IIOA and now two scumteams). People just keep making excuses for him, when it's really obvious he is scum. It's going to be really easy finding his buddies.

Hoopla is really obviously town too. Vi is starting to rise fast on my scumdar because she keeps throwing accusations everywhere but none of them are sticking.

[charter]

Crypto, before you said there were two scumteams, now you're saying it's possible there's just one. You're backtracking after you got called out on it.

[charter]

You can keep calling me stupid, but it just makes you look scummier.

[charter]

Crypto said the same thing about there being two scumteams in 577. Why didn't people pick up on it there? Makes it seem more likely that this wagon was a case of people jumping on charter's point.

Crypto didn't make that post, and it doesn't say anything about teams. Is that the correct post you are thinking of?

Vi is starting to rise fast on my scumdar because she keeps throwing accusations everywhere but none of them are sticking.

That's because none of the people who are being voted are people I particularly want to lynch.
Why, exactally, does my behavior make me

more likely to be scum

(not intentional) and

more likely to be annoying

(entirely intentional)?

That goes to everyone who has decided to parrot the question. My vote is moving around; my stances are for the most part not.

@charter: How Hoopla is obvTown to you is beyond my understanding; please show me what you see.

Because jumping all over the place with your accusations is a great way to lynch just anyone and a poor way of getting your top suspect lynched. Your play looks like it would benefit a scumyou more than a townyou. That's really suprising that no one being wagoned you wouldn't lynch. I never said anything about you being annoying, I don't think you are being annoying.

Just finished a game with Hooplascum and her play here is quite different. She is much more aggressive and is actually doing dirty work herself as opposed to just posting infrequent snipes and repeating what others say. Guess that won't really convince you of my read, but I'm not really that interested in doing so.

Crypto is also now really flailing, pretty much going for anyone he can.

[charter]

So anyway guys, sometimes i post before i finish reading a page. It's funner that way.

But reading the rest of the page, I saw Crypto quote himself and Charter's paraphrasing seems way too strong. As it actually was, Crypto never waffled and there's nothing wrong with crypto as far as the last two pages go at least.

I didn't paraphrase anything, I quoted his words. Crypto did backtrack.

His quote where he made everything large he said first, then later he said "Again, I would not be surprised if there is only one scum team" after he was called on his claimed fact.

[charter]

Crypto, enough. You are incapable of having an adult conversation, so I'm done with you. I'll just lynch you and remove your plague from our game and in a double whammy get rid of a scum.

Oh rofl, you are so funny.

[charter]

charter, does elvis seem obviously town to you?

No, but she's not as scummy as others, and I certainly wouldn't follow crypto's suspicions.

Vi, here you go http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12156

[charter]

Hell yeah. Shotty to the Body.

You should totally vote for crypto Shotty, he is scum.

Seriously guys, CSL and not crypto? I will agree that replacing out because he doesn't want to defend himself is scummy as hell, but seriously?

[charter]

And also, people don't think Hoopla is town? I need me one of her little smileys where he's laughing, but it's so funny that the mouth is like an inch tall to express how laughable the thought of Hooplascum is right now.

[charter]

Replacing out because you don't want to or aren't able to defend yourself is scummy, it's not really debatable.

[charter]

Fine. I have confidence the crypto situation will resolve itself.

unvote, vote CSL

[charter]

In one page from 8 to 15.

YEeeeaaaa, something tells me this isn't going to end well.

Ha. Ahahaha. hahahahaha.

Scum.

[charter]

Vi is scum too. This CSL lynch was great. Outed Spyrex and Vi for the scumbags they are.

[charter]

Vi, waiting on why you think Hoopla is scummy.

[charter]

Vi, you didn't even attempt an answer at my question. All you said was "well, Hoopla isn't as scummy as I thought". Ugh, what a pickle. You or crypto for scumbag numero uno.

[charter]

Vi, you didn't even attempt an answer at my question. All you said was "well, Hoopla isn't as scummy as I thought". Ugh, what a pickle. You or crypto for scumbag numero uno.

You mean missed the self-quote entirely?

@pops: Go see that one game I modded for more info.

Oh, I was under the impression that you weren't still clinging to something of no importance like the thinly veiled OMGUS you suspect her for.

[charter]

Might be unclear. Vi is poorly masking OMGUS, not Hoopla.

[charter]

vote Vi

because she is scum. Will have more later when I have more time.

[charter]

charter 913: Confidence?

~75%

Why we should lynch/dayvig Vi:

Calls Maemuki town after rofl does. She then goes on about how scum hate people people calling people town. Important baseline established for the end of day one.

At the beginning of the day, Vi is all over these burgeoning bandwagons: sigma, SpyreX, Confid, Energetic Penguin

Then, in ISO 65, he defends not voting for CSL with "let the other scumteam/vig" take care of them. Scummy logic. Next post, he adds another reason for not voting CSL, "Plus, again, easy wagon." BWAH?!?! He was on four easy wagons earlier in the day, but then refuses to go on CSL.

Vi then later hammers CSL, making one mention of CSL in between.

Scumfession (ISO 85) "Even if CSL flips Town, there is no loss. See crypto 833." Justifying CSL flipping town after he's already been lynched, trying to distance from the wagon.

Says Hoopla is scum (for a really bad reason too, it was Hoopla questioning why Vi didn't think Crypto would be a good policy lynch) and then I say Hoopla is obvtown. Vi questions me, then drops it, then once Hoopla lays the smackdown of towniness, Vi backs off with "@Hoopla defenders: If it's that obvious to everyone else and I just don't "get it", then whatever. " Her whole attitude on Hoopla is quite the contradiction to her attitude towards calling people town day one.

Plus, if I was scum and I was Vi, I'd kill Hoopla. Not saying other scum wouldn't as well, but yeah.[/wifom]

Another plus, Vi isn't playing like she does as town.[/worthlesspoint]

Now to read up day two after football and what the Elvis deal is about since I don't remember what it was.

[charter]

imaginality

the Mafia

Roleblocker was killed

whawhat!?

Vote: elvis_knits

(L-10)
crypto's death strengthens this read.

This falls in to the oldest tell in the book (though not quite praising there being dead mafia, it's pretty much that).

Also, crypto was obviously not killed by the mafia. Don't pretend like they would have killed him, he was so antitown and scummy it's not even funny. Plus, another huge scumtell, to actually use the logic of "well, NK'ed townie thought EK was scum, and I think EK is scum, so EK must be scum" is laughable. This is all aside from the fact that the mafia obviously wouldn't have killed him.

FOS Maemuki for 904, for not saying who her biggest suspect is, even after being asked like twice.

Actually, Charter, roflcopter, Vi, sigma, Pads, and Sotty7 were all on both the Confid and CSL wagons. I get the feeling that at least half of these folks are scum, if not more.

Ahahahaha. I love this lazy approach to scumhunting.[/sarcasm] Did you bother to see if any of these people had good reasons for voting both of them? Or any of the circumstances that go along with the votes? I am pretty sure voting for townies isn't a scumtell if there is good reason. Pretty sure. Now, if you were to go back and find that some of the people have a habit of abandoning all else to pile on to every wagon, but are suspiciously absent from one or two (aka their scumbuddies), then bring this back up again.

Double FOS for his regretting the CSL lynch comment.

Will get to Vi's post momentarily. I'm not going to be voting for Elvis. She is kind of scummy, but no where near Vi levels. Sorry for such a crappy read, I can elaborate tomorrow if someone direly wants an elaboration.

Plus, none of the people voting Elvis are giving me much of a reason to vote her, and I haven't filed any of them under town, all of them are neutral at best, so yeah. No real incentive to vote for Elvis.

[charter]

At the beginning of the day, Vi is all over these burgeoning bandwagons: sigma, SpyreX, Confid, Energetic Penguin

easy wagons

Important note: I

started

the sigma and SpyreX wagons. ConfidAnon, no contest. E-Penguin is still likely lurkerscum.
Further, I would argue that sigma and SpyreX were

not

easy wagons.

Ok. I just looked at votecounts and saw your name on them to get that list. However, the particular wagons you were on is not the point, the point is you clearly don't have a problem with easy wagons.

Then, in ISO 65, he defends not voting for CSL with "let the other scumteam/vig" take care of them. Scummy logic.

How is it scummy logic? CSL is a well-established VI and I don't want to have to spend time figuring out his alignment if he's virtually guaranteed to die or replace out anyway.

Playing dumb won't make this go away. Directing vigs and scumteams is absolutely scummy. First off, directing vigs is scummy because it allows for people of unknown alignment to influence a very powerful protown role. If the directors aren't town, then obviously what they're saying isn't in the towns best interest. And directing scumteams? Really? By saying "kill soandso" you GUARANTEE that scum aren't going to kill them.

Vi then later hammers CSL, making one mention of CSL in between.

Scumfession (ISO 85) "Even if CSL flips Town, there is no loss. See crypto 833." Justifying CSL flipping town after he's already been lynched, trying to distance from the wagon.

CSL had twelve votes on him and I had already pointed a couple of times to how even his appeals to emotion were failing. What was I supposed to do, sit back and continue to say "no, uh-uh, staying waaaay off this one in spite of having no reason not to vote him" and let the Day drag out longer? I'm sure you would find that scummy too.

You just seemed pretty eager to hammer CSL and get it over with, like you were afraid his pleas might be believed and people might lose interest in him. Hammering CSL isn't scummy, I just don't like how you only mentioned him being possible scum once like that.

I take note that you don't contest my distancing from the lynch point.

@Hoopla: I did not and still do not see the Hoopla-obvTowniness everyone else does. You'll notice that everyone gave reasons for calling the other people Town before. The only person who gave a clue on Hoopla was you, and it was with a meta example (that was promptly naysayed by crypto). (I will grant that the meta WAS different though.)

I take note that you choose to go on about why I thought Hoopla was town, rather than the important point of how your giving up your 'scum' read of her is a complete contradiction to your stance on townies calling other townies you gave at the beginning of the game.

@not playing to my Town meta: Please elaborate. *gets gummi bears to enjoy while reading this one*

Really don't have much interest arguing this, since no one else will see what I see, and there is more than enough incriminating evidence without arguing this.

All in all, you ignored the main points of how you had no problems with easy wagons at the beginning of the game, but then later tried to stay off wagons with the justification of them being easy wagons. And also how you talk about how scum hate when people call people town and then when people call Hoopla town and it clashes with your supposed scumread of her, you just surrender to avoid any more confrontation.

[charter]

Vote Count, Day 2

hiphop ( 0 )
shotty to the body ( 0 )
charter ( 0 )
elvis_knits ( 5 ) - Idiotking - roflcopter - Xylthixlm - Pads - sotty7
Energetic Penguin ( 0 )
hitogoroshi ( 1 ) - RayFrost
Idiotking ( 1 ) - RedCoyote
Infinis ( 0 )
Xylthixlm ( 0 )
Maemuki ( 2 ) - Infinis - Vi
Pads ( 2 ) - SpyreX - hitogoroshi
popsofctown ( 0 )
Zakeri ( 0 )
RayFrost ( 0 )
RedCoyote ( 0 )
roflcopter ( 0 )
sigma ( 1 ) - elvis_knits
Sotty7 ( 1 ) - hiphop
SpyreX ( 0 )
Vi ( 1 ) - charter
Unvote ( 6 ) - shotty to the body - Energetic Penguin - Maemuki - popsofctown - Zakeri - sigma
Total Votes ( 20 )

With 20 alive, 11 needed to reach a majority.
Deadline is at December 12th, 10am EST

Plus, none of the people voting Elvis are giving me much of a reason to vote her

you're kidding, right?

ray, why is hito a better lynch than elvis?

I meant that I'm not compelled to vote Elvis because all the protown people are voting her. None of them are, in fact. You and Xyl are the ones with good points against her, but even still, Vi is the scummiest.

[charter]

And I still need to reread day one to look at imaginality.

[charter]

You and Xyl are the ones with good points against her

My points against elvis were "Magic 8-ball", "pot, kettle" and "^ scum".

I thought the quote you labeled with "^ scum" was quite fishy of Elvis.

Further, I'm p sure that Vi is NOT scum with imaginality due to the votecounts and although I still fully expect two scum groups with the ambiguous flip one will assume one... thus that limits the options.

How does Vi being the next vote after imaginality two times make you think they aren't scum together? (I'm getting this from RedCoyote's post 953) I'm not seeing how that garners town points.

[charter]

So what points does it get him then?

[charter]

Why would it not make sense for TownVi to say that, especially since I was pretty vocally set on two scumgroups D1?

Because it's a pretty well known scumtell.

Aside from the lack of reasoning behind "The Mafia obviously didn't kill crypto", have you ever been in a game where someone dies and nobody bothers to look up why, only to see that they were dangerously close to finding scum? Like SocioPath here, me here, me here, and me here.
Or are you claiming to have shot crypto? It would make things easier.

Rolefishing aside, anyone who thinks the mafia would actually kill crypto is out of their mind. I'm sorry, that's the way it is. You can throw all the examples you want at me, but I would bet that none of those examples are of people as scummy as crypto.

So you just admitted to being wrong (considering those wagons WERE in the early game!), but you're still hammering on your point.

Are you serious? You admitted to being on two easy wagons early game. My point is just as valid, it just doesn't have four examples, only two.

Obviously they have to agree with me first; it's not like I'm stealing their shot.

Obviously bogus.

Vi, once again, explain how you went from scum hate people calling others town, at the beginning of the game, to well, I give up on my scumread because everyone else says she is town, at the end of the day.

Also explain how you clearly had no problem with easy wagons at the beginning of day one, but then at the end, you tried staying off easy wagons because they were easy wagons.

[charter]

No, Vi. You never explained these, please do.

Vi, once again, explain how you went from scum hate people calling others town, at the beginning of the game, to well, I give up on my scumread because everyone else says she is town, at the end of the day.

Also explain how you clearly had no problem with easy wagons at the beginning of day one, but then at the end, you tried staying off easy wagons because they were easy wagons.

[charter]

Yeah, he already explained how EK couldn't talk to her scumteam, but could only talk to her mason buddy. Though her mason buddy was scum, so it seems like there is probably another scumbag flying solo.

[charter]

charter: You should stop attacking Vi and SpyreX now, and find some actual scum. Thanks.

Yes, I heard you. Where does your 8ball say I should go? I don't really have anyone but Vi that I find that suspicious, maybe pops, but I've already tried that one. Should be able to reread day one, and now with two scum dead, hopefully I can get some more suspects.

[charter]

Ok, reread.

I am like 100% sure Ray is town.
EP is scummy early on.
sigma still seems town. Also, he's the only person alive in Elvis's 295 scumlist, so he's probably town.
RedCoyote is probably town.
Mae is probably scum.
Sotty, unfortunately, is probably not town.
Infinis is still scummy, even after whoever died.
EP is scummy midday as well.
I think that if EP is scum, rofl is his buddy. EP keep giving Hoopla flak about bandwagoning, but never mentioned rofl doing it.
Besides that, rofl is pretty neutral.
Still think pops is scum, but I'll deal with that later.

Anyone not mentioned didn't catch my eye.

I'd lynch Mae or EP. Despite the slimyness of Vi's vote on Mae, and her general scumminess with regards to all things Mae, there was quite a bit that suggested Mae was scum with Elvis.

unvote, vote Vi

[charter]

Haha, whoops, meant to

unvote, vote Mae

, not try and vote Vi twice.

Spyrex, you were pretty much a nonentity, you floundered around a bunch at the beginning then I didn't see anything noteworthy from you.

[charter]

I thought you were voting CSL then regretting it because he got a bunch of votes in one page when I posted that you were scum. When I reread, I realized this was not the case, which pretty much eliminates that.

And you never specified what kind of points Vi got for following imaginality's votes, what kind?

[charter]

I'd still vote Vi.

[charter]

charter looks like scum. he was a late joiner on both Confid and CSL wagons, and his attacks on crypto look a lot worse after crypto's flip. crypto was attacking imaginality and e_k hard on day 1, so that may explain his death on N1.

How does being on CSL or Confid make me look bad? How do my attacks on crypto look bad when we had a scum flip and there's no obvious two groups, which was the main point I was attacking him about, his rebuttal of 'oh, well there's two scumgroups'. And plus, EK took my attack and just latched on and let me do all the dirty work. I'm obviously biased, but that sure didn't look like a scum tagteaming of crypto to me.

And, we've already been over crypto was clearly not a mafia kill. There are like a dozen other people who are more of a threat to scum than him.

Pads is still babbling on about all the players that aren't being voted or coming under suspicion. Still pretty much dead weight.

After Maemuki's last few posts (and all posts day two in general) she should be lynched sooner, rather than later. Let's go. (this is in addition to her constant defenses of Elvis, probably Elvis's mason buddy)

[charter]

what happend to the infinis wagon? I'm specifically directing this at charter and rofl.

His scumbuddy, Confid, I believe flipped town, killing the case.

[charter]

Maemuki's list gave five neutral reads and one scum read there.

[charter]

what happend to the infinis wagon? I'm specifically directing this at charter and rofl.

His scumbuddy, Confid, I believe flipped town, killing the case.

So, my memory sucks. Confid died way earlier.

What actually happened to it was crypto overtook infinis in scumminess.

[charter]

Maemuki's list gave five neutral reads and one scum read there.

2 scum reads, 1 neutral-scummy and 3 neutral to be exact.

Not that I have any interest in debating this further, but you gave a scum read on RC and didn't say anything about anyone else.

[charter]

I think Vi is scummier than infinis.

[charter]

I think Vi is scummier than infinis.

More please?

What more is there to say? I think I've gone over why I think Vi is scum quite a bit. Doubt there will be any point in continuing this line anymore. I haven't gone to that length with infinis, because I think Vi is scummier.

[charter]

note the bolded, imaginality's ultra safe position somewhere in the "lesser degree of suspicion" category. also, pops is town.

This is similar to Pops's BS accusation of sprinkler scumhunting. Just because I was right, but didn't have enough to go on, that makes me scum? Please.

parrots my point about confid, then makes another vague point and joins the wagon as vote number nine, pushing it one step closer to the mislynch it would have been if not for awesome daykilling

And this isn't scummy.

this post shows how awesome i am at sniffing out the weirdness between scumpartners. since elvis was scum and charter is scum.

Yeah, that doesn't make me look very good, nothing I can do about it though.

demanding that scum didn't kill crypto seems like a desperate "this is a bogus reason to suspect my scumpartner!" deal, and also probably an admission that scum really didn't and therefore fishing for whoever did kill him

Actually, if you read my posts late day one, you can easily tell this is the opposite of fishing. Read them late day two and I'm sure you can figure it out.

I'm sorry rofl, but you are barking up the wrong tree big time here.

I need to reread, again, because I'm clearly lost.

[charter]

we really need more votes on charter. the people who are subtly defending him by pushing alternate wagons or calling him only sort of scummy but not as scummy as someone else are quickly rising on my radar (looking at you, sotty and xyl)

Did you even read my post? It's REALLY obvious that I'm not scum.

[charter]

Fine. I have confidence the crypto situation will resolve itself.

unvote, vote CSL

That's probably a big enough hint.

[charter]

Because there is a day vig who does not wait very long, and I am trying to minimize damage here.

[charter]

I killed crypto and then Vi.

[charter]

Also, I'm a Vigil. There's a difference between that and vig, but I don't see a reason to say what that is now.

[charter]

Why the hell did you kill Vi?

Spammy, scummy, useless. In that order.

[charter]

Woooooooooo!

Great job Pops and Hiphop! I thought we were doomed but you guys did an excellent job.