Mafia 38: Dragon Mafia - Game over!

[HezLucky]

I'll use random.org and

vote Milkman

[HezLucky]

Sure you did...

[HezLucky]

Sorry folks, I find this game too confusing and monotone so I haven't been posting in it much at all (especially compared to the excitement of some of my other games).

I'll reread the thread and offer my thoughts in a bit.

[HezLucky]

Time to offer my thoughts
I'll randomly assign numbers to my thoughts so I can decide on who seems most scummiest, then I'll throw a vote or FOS them depending on how many votes they have.
I'm practically reading this game thoroughly for the first time.
Also, some things may not make sense. But I am posting everything so you can see how my thoughts evolve as the game progresses.

Page 1 -
I don't like no lynch. I just don't. (ambic +3)
rolandofthewhite sticking a second vote ... however random it may be, he could've randomly chosen someone else (he didn't even state it was random) [roland +2]

Page 2 -
Pooky - should lynch based on scumminess, not whether or not you like their theory. I hate this style of play (Pooky +3)
Thesp - said just what I said, but 5 days earlier (thesp -1)
Yaw - I agree ... I dislike no lynch day one. Especially someone popping the idea right away. (ambic +1)
*Note as of this point: Ambic seems to have a lot of weird strategies ... she'll either wind up getting lynched anyway or will propose one of her strategies that people won't understand. Either way, could be disastrous for the town. {ambic +1}
Pooky seems to be aggressive here. He also seems to be logical. {pooky -1}
Jesus - repeats thesp, defends ambic {jesus +1} ... this post just doesn't feel right
- There appears to be a split between ambic and Pooky at this point. I'm starting to dislike both of them. {pooky +1}
Coolbot raises nice points in post #47 (Coolbot -1), especially in favour of Pooky {ambic +1}
rolandofthewhite's vote on BabyJesus - now that seemed random and weird {roland +2}

Page 3 -
the silent speaker: thank you (#52), that's what i was thinking {TSS -1}
...you do it again (#53) {TSS -2}
#55 reminds me of WIFOM ... Scum shouldn't suggest no lynch ... but that's what they want us to think ... anyway, I'm not going to get into that ... it's bad for the town. {ambic +1 though}
Fletcher: Post #66, huh?!? {Fletcher +1}
Bamboomancer: #74 ... Haha... me too!

Page 4:
MoS (75): LOL!
Spork (85): See Yaw, (86) {spork +1}
Yaw (86): Good work! {Yaw -1}
Spork (87): Lame (spork +1}
Post 89: {spork -1}
ambic starting to deteriorate in scummyness (just a bit) {ambic -1}

Page 5:
On second thought, she might be laying low {ambic +1}
Post 109: I don't like this vote {ambic +1}
Post 112: Pooky redeems himself {pooky -1}
Post 113: Hez posts for first time in while {Hez +2}

And now we see who has the most points:
ambic: +8
roland: +4
Pooky: +2
Hez: +2
Spork: +1
jesus: +1
Fletcher: +1
coolbot: -1
Thesp: -1
Yaw: -1
TSS: -3

Bahaha ... I'm tied for third.

I'd need a vote count, but looking at the recent unvote, this appears to be a safe vote.

Unvote milkman, vote ambic

She seems to be sliding under the radar after an intense first few days where she was the centre of attention.

[HezLucky]

I unvoted Milkman...

[HezLucky]

Am I allowed to

request vote count?

[HezLucky]

Go ahead and mark them out.

I'll still be voting for you anyway until I do my next "utilitarianism" act...

which will simply add to my previous totals

[HezLucky]

WIFOM is BADDDDDD.

I'm going to keep my vote on ambic, rather than BabyJesus.

Question for you Yaw: what if one turns out innocent? Could the other still be mafia? I'm not sure its necessarily a wise idea to lynch both of them.

I like ambic better though. BabyJ is a little too consistent in the metagame for me.

[HezLucky]

MOS is on vacation or something.

[HezLucky]

Alright. Sounds reasonable.

Unvote ambic

[HezLucky]

Yes, deadlines suck.

I hate to bandwagon but ...

Unvote, Vote: KE

Sorry bud. I would not be voting for you if it weren't for a deadline.

[HezLucky]

Deadline retracted?

Unvote: KE

[HezLucky]

Vote: KingEnigma

I agree with BJ's last comment. If you truly were a power role, you would at least help the town out by telling us so we can go after a SCUM during these LYNCHINGS which happen to be OUR ONLY CHANCE TO CATCH SCUM.

Your unwillingness to help the town doesn't bode well with me at all.

[HezLucky]

I shall respond to that seeing as I have nothing better to do:

The reason I did the point system was because I had almost no idea what was going on. It was a method to organize my thoughts, as I mentioned in that very post.

I can't defend myself against this "KE" business but I really feel that no defense here is necessary. Considering the reasons I supplied for my vote, I read over and wonder how you could have possibly gotten a scum tell from that. Frankly, the fact of the matter is, there was me: 8th on the bandwagon for scum. And there was you: not on the bandwagon for scum. Considering you are voting based on voting patterns that makes me chuckle a little.

And due to school, my post count and frequency are turning into what I have here in almost every game. You can check that out for yourself if you really care.

[HezLucky]

Haha. You fail.

I don't think Peacebringer is scum at the moment. This is more of a psychology-based thing that I'm looking at as opposed to a game theory thing so I won't bother giving an explanation because it wouldn't do anything for any of you.

[HezLucky]

Where'd the mod go?

Unvote

if I'm voting anyone, god dammit I don't know it's been so long since we've had a vote count and

Vote: ambic

.

[HezLucky]

Erm... can we prod the mod?

[HezLucky]

Bah, it has exceeded its allocated data transfer for me. Could someone please post a synopsis of the file?

[HezLucky]

That's not bad.

But meta-gaming from Doc Mafia, you're crap at catching scum so I'll wait for a response.

[HezLucky]

Pictureclaiming is a good idea. I like it.

From now on, when a player roleclaims, they should also picture-claim.

I still think HezLucky is a good lynch choice, for reasons I explained yesterday.

Vote HezLucky.

I'm gonna be as lazy and elaborate as you. I responded to this yesterday, and hence see no reason to respond to it today (exception: between yesterday and today, i joined one bandwagon that outed scum ... that's the only difference. Yeah, I'm stumped too.)

And I had a hard time recognizing my picture ... but it's there

[HezLucky]

I think it would be extremely effective.

And I suggest that Yaw go first

[HezLucky]

Look, we aren't mass claiming. Mass PICTURE CLAIMING on the other hand can do nothing but help the town.

[HezLucky]

Uh... don't post it from your IM though ... cuz that's quoting the mod. Rather, let's make a list of the pictures (not sure if the previously made "list" counts) and then we can claim by number or something.

[HezLucky]

I'm in favour of it.

What will also be interesting will be this discussion, because from a town point of view I can't see why anyone wouldn't be in favour of it.

[HezLucky]

I'm in favour of it, but I can see how people might be afraid that their role could be inferred from their picture

Highly unlikely. Only mafia would be afraid of this. I have looked at all the pictures again and can't infer any roles by looking at the dragons.

or that it leads to problems. I think it will get us at least one or two scum,

One or two scum ... that is ... GREAT! OMG!

Seriously, one or two scum less might be ALL the scum less. And if it isn't, we have put ourselves in an excellent position.

but probably not all for the obvious reason that some people are dead.

We can't be lazy at the moment. We will have to research the dead roles and match them up with pictures to offset this.

[HezLucky]

I agree with Pooky.

The person who does the hard job should also be rewarded by selecting.

[HezLucky]

Nope.

Double claims.

Duh. How many confirmed innocents would we get?

We would get them in bunches!

And also, you CAN'T infer any sort of role. I already went over this.

[HezLucky]

And I'm not willing to break a game in that way. It's just not fun, nor is it much of a game. I didn't sign up to just mass claim against a bunch of pictures and call it a day. I signed up for the deductive challenge of catching scum. What the hell's the point of signing up for a game if you're just going to abdicate playing it?

I'm not falling for this.

Vote: Yaw

[HezLucky]

My position on the mass-claim is pretty simple - it will be a big help, but not a slam-dunk win.

We have been presented no evidence that that scum would necessarily have to pick a different picture than their own, nor that people will be evidently pro-town or not by their pictures.

I'm not sure you've addressed this. I think you're begging the question (which is a logical fallacy).

He has addressed this. I've addressed this. I'm sure other people have addressed this too. The fact of the matter is, x people have addressed this with x>=2

You're either too lazy to check or scum.

[HezLucky]

No, you are not missing anything at all.

[HezLucky]

I still think we should mass picture claim...

I'm totally up for it. Who wants to go first?

[HezLucky]

I'm totally up for a picture claim. You can't infer roles from pictures no matter how hard you try. Doubt there are any Xceptions to that rule.

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvery likely to catch a scum if we do.

Vote stays on Yaw for that simple reason.

[HezLucky]

Great job!

Looks like we've caught scum in a lie.

Unvote, Vote: Dourgrim

Your glittering generalities are useless to me. Your logic of saying "just because you say it's right doesn't make it so" does not work when you follow that up with "i say you are wrong just because".

[HezLucky]

Damn I was gonna finish him myself.

[HezLucky]

I'll go ahead and claim Picture 15 right now to limit the number of pictures scum can claim.

[HezLucky]

Hydra of course.

Look at the 5 heads!

[HezLucky]

Vote: inhim

for pointing that out. Makes me uneasy.

Who hasn't claimed yet?

[HezLucky]

Me wonders if the Amphisbaena are a cult..

[HezLucky]

Specify anyways. I want to hear it.

[HezLucky]

That's interesting.

So you obtain the full role then?


(Careful guys... I wouldn't put it past any of these dragon eggs to turn out as scum ... who says they have to hatch to be good dragons ... or even dragons at all?)

[HezLucky]

Hard? It's damn near impossible. Arrgh

[HezLucky]

Out of impatience, the fact that I agree with post 979, the fact that I suggested the very thing in post 968 and the fact that I need to stir things up to get people talking:

Vote: Yosarian2

[HezLucky]

Anyway, Coron died, and I never had a chance to find or lynch the Western Dragon. So I'm just a vanilla townie now (I have been since I replaced Fletcher).

I'm thinking his death turned you into an SK.

...I don't want to alternate between voting for two people that are attacking each other at the moment so I will wait a little longer to see whether I am happy with my vote on Yos2 or would rather change to you.

To SpeedyKQ:

Dude. You can't read me.

Look at Gambit Mafia. You were seemingly 100% sure I was scum. What was I? Cop.

This game will only serve to add another "I told you so" to the "why you shouldn't lynch Hez based on a read". (this isn't to say Hez is unreadable... that is a complete and total lie... its just to say that YOU can't read me)

I really can't respond to any of what you wrote but I'll try:

Paragraph 1: I was concerned with finding scum, not proving I was a dragon. I was sure a massclaim would break the game for us and win it. Take off your glasses and view it from the perspective of "Hez' not scum" and this will all make sense to you. A mass picture claim DID help us. Look at Monty's role.

Paragraph 2: If you knew me better, you'd realize that unless I'm blatant, I NEVER try to be seen as the originator. Why? because then I get attacked and I am no good at defending myself. EXAMPLE WHERE I WAS BLATANT: Mini 201, my pushing for a lynch on EYNH. Or how bout earlier today where I asked Yos2 for a claim and seemed ready to attack him? EXAMPLE WHERE I WAS NOT THE ORIGINATOR: Uh... just about every single forum game I've played in minus one or two scenarios where it had to be someone else. Frankly, whenever anyone votes on a bandwagon, they can be seen as not trying to be the originator so I don't see how it is possible to defend against that.

Paragraph 3: Once again, look at some of my other games. I seemingly border between indecisive and easily swayed based on the length of the game, ESPECIALLY for early lynches and mid-game lynches with little to go on. EXAMPLE: Tri-Cities Mafia, Ft. St. John, the lynch on mikehart where I voted for Untrod. .. funny, mikehart turned up innocent and Untrod turned up scum. For some odd reason in that game, I'm under fire for NOT lynching mikehart o_O

If you need help reading me, read the LAST DAY of MINI 201. It was myself, Phoebus and Someone. Phoebus was confirmed innocent. I don't know how the hell he figured out that Someone was the scum seeing as just about anyone else woulda pointed at me due to my playstyle. Seriously, read it, it's worth your time. The last day is short anyway. If you respond to this without reading the last day of Mini 201 I will be upset.

I really can't give you more than that though. You can't read me. Let's leave it at that.

[HezLucky]

Look at Gambit Mafia. You were seemingly 100% sure I was scum. What was I? Cop.

I really don't like bringing other games into a current one, but this is dead wrong. In Gambits I was mostly defending you.

And generally, I have no use for the "it's OK, I always look scummy" defense.

Bah, I had you confused with Puzzle.

But Post 360 of that game clearly states that you think my playstyle is scummy. So this isn't the first time.

[HezLucky]

I don't want to flip flop between votes. The vote for you is a temporary what-if, just as my potential vote for CA is as well.

If I believe CA to be scummier, I will switch to him. I'd like to see a little more discussion though in order to make sure of my choice.

[HezLucky]

Because I was waiting for a post like Yaw's.

Now I know he is innocent. Now I see no point in not lynching CA and risking Yaw being attacked.

Unvote, Vote: Commodore Amazing

Hopefully GG.

[HezLucky]

I claim responsibility for the kill on Yosarian2.

I can claim responsibility for some other previous kills as well.

[HezLucky]

Do you guys think a full claim outta me would help any?

[HezLucky]

I guess you want a full claim.

I am the Hydra, vigilante.

I have five heads. I may choose to either "vig" or "no vig". If I vig, I must list n targets, where n is the number of heads I have remaining. Since I have five heads, I have five targets I can choose from at the beginning.

My strategy was to vig down to the endgame where I would save up my last kill for when I would really need it.
(if I missed any you can obviously assume I wasn't vigging)

Here were my choices:
(You will have to excuse me I am taking these from my SENTBOX as I don't feel like checking the days)

Choice sent in July 14: ABSTAIN FROM KILLING
Choice sent in Aug 22: NOT VIGGING
Choice sent in Sep 21 (first one to Iammars): I am vigging, here are my five possibilities:
milkman, MoS, roland, speedy, pooky
(can't remember my reasoning but I chose the five people who either a) pissed me off or b) seemed scummy)
Reason for Vigging: It's no longer random (it's slightly less than random) and if I don't start vigging soon I won't be able to get down to my "1 head left at key point in endgame" and won't be a good vig for when it's actually needed.
PERSON KILLED: Milkman was the only one who died so Milkman. Yes, I am not told who is killed.
Nov 01 choice: Yaw, Dourgrim, Fritzler, Coolbot
Why: Yaw for opposing the mass claim, I had reasons for the others I'll be damned if I'm gonna go look them up.
Who died: No clue. I can claim responsibility for either Dourgrim or Coolbot but obviously not both. Dunno which one died because of me.
Nov 10 choice: Not vigging
Reason: I'm on good pace to make my target of having 1 bullet left with few players. I can not vig tonight, hopefully someone will seem scummy during the day and I will vig them... not enough leads for my liking.
Nov 21 choice: Inhim, Yaw, Yosarian
Reason: Yaw still scummy and wanted to test out the eggs.
Who died: I'm counting this... it seems to be day six (maybe not) so I assume Inhim... I remember killing Yosarian too though... hmm...
Dec 9 choice: Yosarian, Peacebringer
Reason: Yaw is looking better. I wanted to vig Yosarian and put a non-power role with him. Luckily Yosarian was the vigged.
Who died: Yosarian

and now I'm left with one bullet. This kill is not random. It is the last kill that I can perform. All of my other heads are burned out. Just as I planned.

[HezLucky]

And PB, I was waiting for a response to Post 1046.

[HezLucky]

Remember:

I don't HAVE to vig.

[HezLucky]

I'd rather shoot someone to tell ya the truth lol.

[HezLucky]

Then lynch Yaw.

[HezLucky]

I do too.

Will not vote yet just so people can throw any more ideas around.

[HezLucky]

You seem awfully defensive for someone who wants to die.

Which is why I prefer lynching you and vigging Peacebringer.

[HezLucky]

Vote: Yaw

Nothing will change my vote.

Discussion may change who I vig. I won't reveal who at the moment because I want to reread after the day is done.

[HezLucky]

Indeed I strongly prefer a Yaw lynch.

[HezLucky]

I still like my vote on Yaw.

Yaw please order your preferred vig targets from 1-3.

[HezLucky]

I'd rather lynch Yaw. How's that?

[HezLucky]

Easy.

I think you're scum.

But if you aren't scum, I will know after you die (as I assume we have one scum left) and thus can trust your vig targets then.

I don't trust a damn thing from anyone who is still alive.

[HezLucky]

I would not feel comfortable with anything except a Yaw lynch at this point.

But if you want me to vig VisMaior tonight I will.

[HezLucky]

I get teh feeling Yaw has powers he hasn't told us about.

So I don't feel comfortable with anything but a Yaw lynch.

[HezLucky]

That's fine, I'll vig him then.

But I want YOU lynched. I don't want YOU, YAW, to make it to night.

[HezLucky]

Uh.... yes to the first, no to the second.

If he's nightkill immune and we decide to vig him he's easily caught.

Im afraid he's gonna pass on his evil powers somehow to an innocent [probably a confirmed innocent]

Hence, I want him lynched now.

[HezLucky]

And tell me what's the difference to you between lynching you first or vigging you at night? (besides your pride, which is a pretty scummy reason)

[HezLucky]

I want Yaw lynched.

[HezLucky]

Alright. I'm gonna be stubborn here.

VisMaior will die if Yaw is lynched.

If we go to a No Lynch, I will shoot Yaw and you can lynch VisMaior after.

I'm not changing my vote.

[HezLucky]

That's exactly how I feel about you and your connections to Yaw.

You could both be scumbags as far as I'm concerned.

[HezLucky]

Because I fear that Yaw has powers he hasn't told us about. I've mentioned this already.

I don't want Yaw to get to night to use those powers.

It seems as if YOU do.

[HezLucky]

which we will if Yaw isn't scum.

I'm playing the SAFEST route.

Pooky is not.

Pooky is the unsafe, scummy one.

[HezLucky]

Unvote: Yaw, Vote: VisMaior

Vis deserves to lose regardless of what side he is on for playing a poor game ...

He's made probably three or four different mistakes on this page alone, regardless of what he is.

[HezLucky]

I logged in and saw you unvoted.

Which frustrated me.

Hence, I lynched you.

You shouldn't have unvoted. I would've tried to get Yaw lynched.

[HezLucky]

You need to think in terms of the big picture.

I wanted to have a guaranteed shot come endgame.

You juts got unluckyt.