Mafia 39: Back to Gambits - Game over!

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inform.

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Where is the love ?

Vote Pooky

: dance,

Teddy

Pooky bear, dance !

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I wonder if the Bookie picked me for D1

I believe that is the most logical reason for a day 1 BJ lynch I've ever seen.

Tempting...

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Problem with the lynch+resurrect BJ plan is that it locks our docs onto 1 person : the bookie.
I am not sure I quite like this.

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The best way to achieve celebrity is to get talked about by stars. Therefore, I'll

unvote Pooky, vote Jeep

and I'll encourage everyone else to join me.

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Vote Baby Jesus

for jumping on an early bandwagon

I can't say I didn't see that one coming.

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There's no way we should lynch BabyJesus just because of his reputation as a Day 1 lynch.

If we're going to lynch him, it should be for all the reasons we usually lynch him.

Double posting ?

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I'm in agreement with everything SpeedyKQ just said, save using BabyJesus as a "fallback choice" for today. I think that could be too easy of a cop-out.

I also did find jeep's reaction to be unusually strong.

I also strongly think that BabyJesus's actions so far are counterproductive.

Actually, I'd like a little more explanation, please :
- What do you mean by "cop-out" ?
- Why do you think BJ's vote on jeep to be counter-productive when, at the same time, you admit that jeep's reaction was "unusually strong" ?

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Fifth, he went fishing...

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Hum, we've got 3 or 4 players who haven't posted yet. Unless they begin contributing, I think I will go after them tomorrow if nothing better comes out.

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Can we get prods on MastermindOfSin and Pooky ?

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(stupid newbie question) What is EMACS ??

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I like this one.

Unvote Jeep, vote STD

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I still like STD ... as a vote ... but I'm opening to a Dybeck wagon.

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To clarify, Dybeck jumping on a side track from STD's quick wagon seems like he wants to show he wants no part in it.
His post #106 shows that he wants to point the town to voting patterns when at the same time, he remains on a simple random vote (on me, which is obviously even more scummy). He takes position only after Thesp catches him on that in #123 and then affirms that he wants to stay off from the main wagon by joining the Jeep one which obviously wouldn't take off at this point (#145).
This is why I'm beginning to consider a Dybeck wagon more and more.


As for STD, I was already itching when SpeedyKQ posted his first vote, due to STD strawmaning Jeep in his #122.
His view on the Bookie-BJ thing was slightly suspicious already, due to his serious encouragement on the topic (posts #44 referring to BJ's sig as hint for the bookie).
The fact that he didn't mention me in his #148 was a sign of despise that makes me want to stick on him until he gives me some form of recognition.

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Thank you for the recognition, STD. . Look, people, somebody intelligent is talking aobut me !
I can't say the explanations were convincing but :
- there is nothing really to explain.
- the case is still quite weak.
- his wagon was as fast as a descent on the highway to hell.

Now that STD has given an effort of defense and stood up instead of claiming a vanilla (not that I expected something else), I feel ready to

unvote STD, vote Dybeck

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@ STD :
1. I doubt people "wanted you lynched" you right off the bat, as you say, and I suspect that you realize it.
2. "HezLucky is scummy" : noted, now how about some more explanation, please ?

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@Jeep : sorry if it sounds weird, it's not an attack but how would you react to being lynched ? Upset or "well, it happens" ?

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Unvote, vote Hezlucky

.

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HezLucky : there is only one claim out right now and he's the Sorcerer. What would you suggest we do ?
Your excessive paranoia about everyone jumping on you for revoking the mass claim and the excessive way you present it ("found a mass claim disgusting") make me happier to vote you than STD.

PS : no need to get the insult game out.

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I'm sorry but I don't like the idea of "bandwagon-claim-bandwagon" as I'm sure DP has mentioned in a previous game.

Roland's blatant bandwagoning is not helping the town either. Why don't you vote for him?

You just made me happier with my vote.

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Yes, I get defensive. That's not a good reason to vote me.

plus all the cool kids are doing it

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About Dybeck : you all know that the governor can inspect people for protective roles, right ?

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Bleh ! need to move on.

Unvote Hezlucky, vote STD

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And who do you suggest and why ? I'd prefer to vote HezLucky but the pace of this game is that of a slug.

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It feels warm in here. I guess I'll stay... Confirm vote STD. Good night.

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Horrible doubt : how would we know if BJ lied ? I find him less scummy than STD for now but...

And now, if I didn't gain scummy points bringing this up...

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Unvote STD, vote Baby Jesus + Big FAT FOS Hezlucky

. I don't feel like lynching a non-counterclaimed power role right off the bat.
BJ, your "I dispute this" was really indicating a counter-claim to me and I'm surprised that it took that long for you to clarifyit wasn't one. I also don't get why you are so positive that the Angel wouldn't counter-claim STD. Confirming 1 scum and 1 protectable + resurrectable townie (for what we know right now) sounds like a good deal to me.

Question to the mod :

if the Angel (or Seer) is killed at night and resurrected later, does he get results from the night in which he died ? and what about the night he came back ?

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Lynching STD to check him + resurrecting him would mean losing 2 nights investigation + vigging someone early, with risks of mistakes and impossibility to know townieness.

Depending whether we want more claims or to stop the bleeding, we could :
- Lynch Hezlucky or BJ (after claim).
- If the lynch target is town and worth reanimating, vig the other (or lynch next day) and resurrect the first through bookie on the following night.

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Whether we believe STD or not, I think lynching roland is stupid since it's possible that we've got an investigation on him.

You know that investigations only find a specific type of scum. If StD is telling the truth he still cannot find werewolves/vampire/Judas/Saulus.

Still, it would make a waste of one investigation, which is better than none. I'm against going for rolandofthewhite.

As for Dybeck's point, I agree that there are lurkers we should chase but this day 1 has been going on for about 1 month and I'm growing tired. Concerning your point about getting a third claim out, what alternative have we got ? Lynching the sorcerer or the angel doesn't seem wiser to me.
Finally, can you explain why you perceive Hezlucky or BabyJesus as pro-town ?

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Dybeck, I guess you're right about collecting info on day 1 but one month is far too long for me and contributions are dying.
I haven't checked but I'm sure that more people than Pooky or MoS haven't posted in the last 3 weeks. As we have possibly gathered enough information for a day 1, I'd even feel ready to lynch a lurker if it can get us to move on. After all, this way at least, we'd get info from him, keep cases to work on for tomorrow and avoid killing the game by killing the posters.

I really want some blood now and if it has to be mine for saying this, so be it. I just don't want to be stuck in a game that will prevent me taking part in others that would be actually alive.

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you really think we should lynch the claimed angel?? I think we might be better off moving elsewhere....

Do you think he is disputing it ?

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1. If the Angel finds a Mafia, it sort of ensures that the lynch next day will not be a werewolf. It is in the Werewolves' interest to keep the Angel alive as long as possible.

2. If the Angel doesn't counter-claim and gets killed tonight, we are deeply stuffed unless we lynch STD indeed. The option to lynch our Angel means losing at least 1 investigation, committing ourselves to lynch someone tomorrow for the bookie to bet and finally hoping that the bookie ends up being still alive.

3. There are enough people finding the idea of the Angel not counter-claiming stupid to have crossed off quite a few possibilities of someone else being the Angel.

FOS Vikingfan for obstination in a not-optimal idea.

Oh, and

unvote BabyJesus, vote HezLucky

, who just managed a final rush to first position on my scum-radar.

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Hum, a mass claim would probably be the most effective right now but we don't have time for it anymore and I'm not convinced it would give us more benefit than to scums.

Therefore, I really think that all masons should remain hidden as long as possible : no need to lose them to early night kills uselessly. Even if we lost most of them at some point, the scums wouldn't know more than us about their identities and couldn't claim it safely anyway.

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It is statistically more probable that STD is lying than telling the truth. I would estimate that the odds that he is lying are 2 out of 3 (and these odds would go up later in the game). Not to say he is lying, but in a game where we can resurrect people he is definitely a safe lynch.

And who will resurrect the Angel ?
The bookie if we resign ourselves to lynch on day 2 based on a calculation on day 1, which means little discussion, argumentation and therefore information ?
The Sorcerer, who is likely to be Dybeck and die tonight ?
The Archangel, who would be expected and killed by the Mafia ?

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About the resurrection of Jeep : it can not harm in any way. It would confirm the presence of the bookie, give a mandatory target for the scum and :
- if both sides attack him, it's only one kill instead of two.
- if not, there is a bigger chance for the relevant protector to save him.

I also agree that with our advance, we should not resurrect anyone except Masons, to be sure not to end up with a vampire in the ranks.

And if the bookie is still alive, we may have more nice options for tomorrow.


Oops, almost forgot : .

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Yes, sorry.

Vote Maximumum

. Calling for inspections on herself like she did in #516 will :
- if she's town, waste the inspection.
- if she's scum, take the chance that the relevant inspector dies / is dead or perhaps dissuade him to look clear.
I can't think of a townie motive to do that.

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<snip>

Big_K

, same reasons as above. This would possibly conclude Big_K as werewolf. BUT-- Big_k/Max voted Dybeck, so I don't know anymore.
<snip>

If I may, the problem with looking only at end-of-day voting patterns is that it doesn't show all the intermediate steps and the state of the game when people voted. Looking back at when b_k voted, Dybeck was already a goner, barring Governor action : the discussion was not anymore about Dybeck's lynch, it was about whether to vig Fuldu or not.
By the way, although I had forgotten to mention it here, I was away between 15 and 21 August (others should be able to confirm).

And I'm not happy with Maximumum's explanation as to why she called for both investigators to check her. Why does she want so bad to be "cleared" early, when :
- there is then a risk for her to get nightkilled at the same time (which didn't happen btw), if she's town ?
- this "clearance" should be subject to our belief in the 2 inspectors being alive ?
It's at the very best a very clumsy move and certainly deserves more attention, methinks.

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Hum, silly idea to discuss : what about having Maximumum call to execute herself ? If she's the Mayor, then it's a free kill for scums, which is bad, but if she's scum or Judas, she's 100% screwed.
Alternatively, if we point her to a suspicious target, the scums need to over-kill the said target (forcing them to kill 1 of our suspects and risk targetting the same if the target is town) or let her get her confirmation.
Really just thinking aloud, here.

In any case,

unvote Maximumum

for now. We have better to do with her than a lynch.

Vote SapphireVerde

for lack of contribution while I check the case on RotW.

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OK. Reviewing RotW's posts was easy :
- several "vote count, please", which is an easy way not to be perceived as lurking.
- attacking Dybeck and everyone else who drew suspicion except STD.
- asking insistently for formal confirmation of BJ being the Angel.
- otherwise complete lack of input.

Yeah, I'll join :

Unvote SapphireVerde, vote RolandoftheWhite

.

Would still like to hear more from SV (and possibly others too).

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I may have believed that, because as he would be the last werewolf (as I doubt he would say Maximumum isn't one if he was Mafia / Judas), he could have named living players instead of dead ones. However, I saw no defense of Maximumum either, so I keep my doubts (that + STD tricked me previously with that). If there is another Seer alive, there is little to lose in counter-claiming : RotW would be the last Werewolf.

Even if there is a counter-claim, we shouldn't rush to lynch and rather try to agree on a decent target for Maximumum (SapphireVerde or Peacebringer for low contribution ?).
First, question @ Cadmium :

in case of Mayor kill, do we know the identity of the target ?

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Full speed backwards : #175 tells me that RotW is not a werewolf. As I doubt he would take the risk to declare Maximumum as not werewolf if he was Mafia, I believe him :

unvote RotW

.


Now, I have only 2 persons who can still be either Mafia or Werewolf : SV (ex-Pariah) and Assasin.
Actually, Assasin has #178 against him and nothing in his favor (particularly not the lurking side) :

vote Assasin

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Missed that replacement... Reasoning stands but knowing what it is to replace on page 25, I'll give you a couple of days, though.

Unvote Assasin / Iammars, vote SapphireVerde

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Bleh, I'm tired of waiting for non-coming answers too but that's no reason to make a non-optimal move. The vote stays for pressure only : I want input and involvement, not blind lynch.

I'm really eager to hear Iammars's input, too. It's always good to get a fresh view on the road we are taking.

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Agreed but I'd still like a claim first and I found Assasin's case more damning.
Actually, in this respect, I'd like to have much more input from Iammars before going to night (and usually, I am the one pushing for the end of the day) :
- Who looks scummy to you ?
- Why ?

Once we get that and if SV hasn't reappeared in the meantime, I'd agree to lynching her but only once we've decided of a target for Maximumum.

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We'll know the identity of the victim if it's a mayor kill. It will just fizzle if Werewolves or Mafia kill the target before but we'll know about their intervention. The interest is that scums would have to go after a scummy person instead of a good-looking one to avoid Maximumum's confirmation.

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Unvote SV

. I'm ready to lynch her today but not before Max's target is decided. I'd suggest Iammars, due to Assasin's scumminess and absence for now. Other propositions ?

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I can understand vikingfan's caution when it comes to my kill. What was the case against Assasin/Iammars again?
I read post #178. What was the main issue with that? The fact that he was against a mass role claim or that he questioned why Blackberry wanted Jeep's opinion on it? Was there more I missed. If he is going to me the target based on that I would just like some clarification.

The case in #178 was the aggressivity with which he answered and tried to make the original suggestion look much stronger than it really was.
Now, concerning Iammars, I see a lot of "Oh, ythis guy looks innocent" and "we shouldn't kill this or that guy" with very little suspicion or real argument to back up these declarations : the only suspicion being on Blackberry, ditched away in the same sentence by reminding the Masons claim. This behaviour makes me think much more of a scum trying to please and sit well with everyone rather than a townie trying to actually find scums. I'm quite happy to

Vote Iammars

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For the mayor kill, I'd still stick to people who can still be either Mafia or Werewolf in my book, to maximize our chances to hit right, i.e. Iammars or Fritzler.
For the time being, I was here before last week-end, and still am, mostly by process of elimination :

My Top possible Mafia (no order of preference) :

TheSP, SV, Assasin, PB, Astronaut.

My Top possible Werewolf (no order of preference) :

SV, Assasin, RotW, Thoth.

I'd also like to say that I've seen townies (myself included) and scums officially ready to take one for the town before. The difference was often that scums offered it too lightly and townies more to seal a game. I don't think it proves much in Astronaut's case, as the move doesn't end the game and Astronaut didn't openly offer it either.

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Just bumping to mention I'll be gone till Saturday and that I'm still happy voting Iammars.

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F***, Maximumum didn't claim the execution... !#"=$/$%.

Concerning the mass claim, I'm all up for it. Only one kill per night left should be fine.
We've got 2 Masons alive (I know the second 99,9% sure and can name him if he and BB don't mind). I can claim something easily checkable.

Alternatively, we could lynch Fritzler directly. (no vote yet, though)

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Brain fart about Maximumum, sorry. However, I think I would have actually preferred to use her.

Anyway, just confirming that I'd like claims to begin with Astronaut, Peacebringer and Fritzler, if no one objects.

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*Wait for PB to claim*
*Sees #799 and laughs*

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Double post, sorry, but it's now even more outrageously evident that Nanook is the last Mason : he was the only one BB never doubted about.

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, 4 civilians out and all still alive ?

I'm not a civilian but that cracks me up...

A fifth, a sixth ? Thoth, Inhim ?

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Hello Michael, could you please clarify ?

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Just wanted to be sure...

Vote Inhim

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I dispute this !

Yeah, and I think that if he is the Mafia, the last changer is BJ. Else, BJ is innocent.

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You know, Inhim, the advantage is that as I claimed last, you're stuffed : if I'm scum, I can't win as a direct consequence of a mislynch on you. Therefore, I have no reason to counter-claim you if I am scum : I would be lynched tomorrow.

You are kindly requested to proceed to the nearest extermination centre.

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We can't vig you anymore, sorry Saulus, and I am the Archangel.

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I see. I was afraid that there would be an actual other Archangel. It's time for a complete roleclaim then.

As mentioned before, I'm Michael, not exactly the Archangel that Cadmium mentioned in the front post. I'm sure you're all thinking there's no way, you scum, of this being true. But, Cadmium does have a history of these odd Gambit-based roles. viewtopic.php?t=408 links to Cadmium's Convict Mafia, where you'll find the same situation I present (in regards to Leonidas and Corsato).

Here's my role, paraphrased as best as I can. Michael: I am an Archangel, but since I am the chiefest of Archangels, I have chosen to stay undetected by the town, and am therefore not on the opening list. Given my connection to the Bible, I know who Judas and Saulus are, and will be required to guide them through each Day. At night, I can choose to be the Guardian Angel of one of the two, and will protect them. As Michael, I have power over life. I do not bring people back from the dead, however; I send them to their deaths.

My win condition is sorry, though: I somehow was supposed to contact Gabriel during the night, and then he'd deliver the news of an Immaculate conception to the town's virgin, who would give birth (hoping that this game runs until December 25th) to the savior of this game. If I was successful in these endeavors, then I would win along with the town, as the game's savior would be a new player introduced to the game, and he'd have all the winning information.

My choices:
Enigma and I have guarded Thoth every Night. Coron was the Saulus. Neither of us have killed, in fear of killing the virgin, our only hope in this game.
Night 1, I found that Enigma had successfully contacted Gabriel - unbelievable, I know - Speedy.
Night 3, Enigma found that Gabriel had delivered the message to the town's virgin, and that the virgin had become pregnant. After reading this, I knew that stalling the game was of the essence. I propose we wait until Christmas to assure the town a victory.

However, I know you're not going to believe me, thinking this is some incredibly crazy Hail Mary, and you all will undoubtedly crucify whomever reveals themself as the game's savior, so I suggest he just remain silent and take his victory with the town in style.

I must say this is very imaginative :
9/10 for creativity.
However, the number of roles fitted the number of players :
0/10 for credibility.

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Actually, Inhim, a self-vote would bring Christmas sooner. Don't you want your gifts earlier ?

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Helllooooooo !!! 8)

My suggestion :
1. Lynch everyone save Masons (and your favorite Archangel).
2. Win.

Vote BJ

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Nanook = mason

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I say we resurrect thesp next, he can help speed this up by doubling our kills.

vote: bj

Game is over anyway. I thought the Saulus would give up today anyway. Yeah, I'll res. him tonight.

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BJ : If you're town, you can win even if you die, so just take one for the town if it's the case : that will get us closer to the Saulus.
I don't actually care who we lynch (in the reasonable range). Catching the Saulus is just a matter of time.

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I am not Saulus.

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Unvote BJ, vote PB

. I just don't care.

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As a side note, the Saulus winning is false because he doesn't get resurrected but meh...

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Ooops. Didn't read well. Yeah, lynch PB, then (or more funnily, we could lynch Thoth first, then PB, then Thoth again )

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Would like also, as long as I'm routed like that.

I think our poor scums got two out early but also gathered almost all the possible bad luck from A to Z.

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Well, I win too- since I was lynched.

I agree though, we scum got all the bad luck possible. The scum were picked out almost immediately and had to claim, instead of say, the real Angel or ArchAngel. That makes a huge difference.

Don't worry, you had low chances to get nightkilled, although I forgot to submit once choice before leaving on night 2 (sorry again, Cadmium).

*whistles innocently*

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Because he was attacked by werewolves, not mafia.

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Ore something one-shot that he can use Day/Night 1.

Preferably one-shot nuke.

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For modifs, maybe giving the mafia a role-blocker and the werewolves a one-shot unstopability would help in reducing the large possibilities for townie counter-claims.
You should know better than me, though.