NY 117: The Vanillaside (Game over)

[RedCoyote]

>implying that lynching a townie is a good thing

I'll have a read over the thread later today or tomorrow, and then I'll make a post including my notes on the game. I will not be claiming until I get an understanding for the game. If you aren't okay with that, then you know what to do. If you want to give me any information about the game and the current situation we're in, it looks like now would be the time.

[RedCoyote]

Alright, you had your chance to lynch me. If you do it after I have to read this thread then I'm not going to be happy with the hammerer. I'm going to take it personal. You know, just saying.

Give me an hour or so.

[RedCoyote]

Please note that I do not expect you to read this entire post. These are my personal notes as I read through the game. Although you are welcome to check them out to get an insight as to where I am coming from, I will give a summarized conclusion at the end of the post (which I would like you to read).

Notes as I read through the game

TownSpyre would've caught scum by now. It's a perfectly reasonable post.

...for RVS.

And no, I'm not *concerned* that I'll be lynched, as such. I figured that I should comment on the fact that I'm the closest to dying as of yet.

Already getting a strange vibe from MPR here. He's clearly concerned, if not that he'll be lynched, by the wagon on him. I don't think he's denying that though, given the second sentence. It's too self-interested for my taste. If he gets bad vibes off the wagon, he needs to spit it out and not just appeal to the general populace.

As for Reck getting vigged: no. If Reck is to die by the town's hands, he will be lynched, no way are we going to vanillize a town killing role.

I have such good luck with replacing into games, it's a wonder I don't do it more often. I seriously love this point and glad a pro like Korts had the balls to come down hard on this side of the fence. I would've said the same thing.

The wagon was growing too quickly for my liking.

[...]

It's not even close to an overreaction, either. It translates to "Eh, I'm getting voted, but it's RVS so it doesn't really matter. Anyways, I always like having other people getting lynched over me, because I'm always confirmed FMPOV as whatever alignment I am, and lynching people of my alignment brings me further from winning!"

I'm not worried that I'll be lynched from scumminess right now, but I'm slightly nervous that a whole bunch of people voted me quickly. Quicklynches are bad.

The fact that MPR is not dropping this point is really starting to concern me, and we're only two pages into the game.

Why would we lynch me? This literally makes no sense.

I think what Korts is trying to say is that with you out of the picture the Redirector can cause less havoc on the town's power roles.

Post 74 is a good all-around Socrates post, with the exception of his MPR read. He says the scum have been trying to play it low key, which I can agree with, and votes DH.

Post 87, DH's response, is good.

SSBF doesn't even strike me as all the scummy at the mo.

Regardless of that aside from twirling mustaches that 87 reads like some magnificent stretching.

I'm assuming by stretching you mean, like, bullshitting? I'm not exactly familiar with the term. I think it's a good post though, because SSBF was speculating and he was overly concerned with lynch predictions. It was a silly post, and a vote was an acceptable response. Although, to be fair, I don't really care for DH's RVS comments.

Unvote, Vote: DemonHybrid

I'm conflicted. Last time you did this you were town, but I didn't like it then and I don't like it now. You haven't spoken enough to justify unexplained votes.

Why the emphasis on "somewhat scummy"? You voted him in that post - wouldn't that mean that he was your scummiest pick at that moment?

This is a good point, although I'm forever going to be just a little weary of throwing my trust behind townIncog after having been duped so well before.

Incognito/DemonHybrid exchange feels town-on-town.

I agree, and I'm glad to have RECK here as a confirmed townie. I feel like if we're in agreement, then my reads aren't totally offbase.

Anything intresting in the last 6 pages?
I am always down for a lynch on DH

*thumbs down*

Hey guys, can we lynch Vezokpiraka? He confirmed but didn't post until now, obviously meaning he was getting coached in the scum QT.

Agreed.

Why can you explain your absence but you can't explain why DemonHybrid is scummy?

The man is on fire.

This is one of those single magnificent gems that is enough to go all the way live for.

We've got a pair of 3 people wagons up and, of course, the declaration of not reading anything and an immediate preference for one.

Which, of course is immediately followed up by a read and confirmation of vote.

Yea, this would be where the bullet goes. Or a rope.

It's been a while since I've seen a Spyrex post I have really been able to get behind. It feels good to be able to say that I can do that here. I missed you being on the same side as me, big guy.

I don't like the way Seraphim keeps changing his votes. Are you going to follow up *any* of them?

Defending vez much?

Scum will certainly try to redirect people to me, but that would involve targeting me, which involves them losing their redirector, Korts.

Seriously, me dying is a stupid idea.

Re-read the role PMs, Reck. Korts opinion is valid, regardless of whether you agree with it or not.

I'm not gonna vote [vez], yet, though, because then he'd be at L-1, and Socrates doesn't want any hamz0rz.

This, coupled with your earlier chastizing of Seraphim for voting vez, seals it for me. I think I know where my vote will be going after I'm done reading the thread.

You know, if someone asked me before the game started who was most likely to be lynched day 1, I would have said Vezo, and here we are. This makes me extremely uncomfortable.

You know, I don't really care about all that. Only the strong survive. Is lynching a townvez really so bad compared to having townvez alive at endgame?

Why don't you try defending yourself? Maybe you could say why DH is scummy, rather than calling him scum repeatedly for no reason?

What's that scumtell called? Coaching? Yeah, that's it, coaching. This is pure coaching.

This wagon will not result in a scum lynch. Mark my words. If you simply must deal with Vezo, let the vig kill them with extreme prejudice

This worries me a bit because, at this point, vez had already claimed. On D1, you simply do not want a lot of claims being thrown about. I really do not see this anti-DH vibe that Socrates, vez, RECK, Nacho, and even Korts, are pushing. RECK especially is a little strange because he goes from seeing DH as town to scum in just a couple of pages.

I see Socrates' post having a tint of urgency and panic in it. So, vezok's L-1 now, and you decide to lash out now, after he ignored one of your questions fully (which is an action that has absolutely nothing townish going for it). Very worthy to note. Why haven't you said anything before about this, you know, when he had 3 or 4 less votes on him.

This. I had been okay with Socrates up until post 234, but that post reeks.

I don't particularly agree with Korts' post 243, although it is a reasonable way of looking at the game. Although I know I'm tainted with hindsight, Seraphim reads like a PR to me.

Post 247 is a little cumbersome and unnecessary. DH responding to every single point vez made seems overinflated and too defensively minded.

I'm quite leery about Vezok's sudden switch from DemonHybrid to SSBF when the wagon started fully materializing especially considering how sure he seemed that DH was scum.

Oh well.

Yeah? Then why not try voting him. I can't believe the vez wagon was allowed to crumble. There are three people, I think, primarily responsible for it failing. Seraphim, Socrates, and MPR. Logically, it follows that these same people are responsible for the town turning its attention toward SSBF, a clearly inferior lynch. This is not just hindsight speaking; there was no real reason for the vez wagon to fall apart. I still haven't seen one yet.

If SSBF flips town we lynch Sera.
End of deal.

Lining up lynches. Lovely. Great townie post, right RECK? Right, Socrates? Right, Nacho?

HOWEVER, I am not stoked at all about the disintegration of that wagon on vezok and I want real explanations not 2scum4scumdaytalk.

That means you. All of you jumpers. I want answers.

Preach on, brother. Call them out. Call them all out.

Wasting time my ass. Forum mafia isn't linear, look at the fucking quote wars others are engaged in here. I don't want scum to get the chance of safe fakeclaims, which if they find a power role with the role cop, they will get through Reck. Reck's presence is a liability as much as his confirmed alignment is helpful.

I don't get how Korts has any votes at all when he is throwing out gold like this. Personally I wouldn't have the balls to make a statement like this, but I have the balls to stand behind it. I'm not confident enough that my townieness could carry something like this.

Stop switching wagons. You will then blaim me for waggoning.
unvote
Vote seraphim

In other words, I want the uncc'd Tracker lynched.

I'm missing my fuzzy obvtown feeling from SpyreX this game. That can't be good.

Your guilty scum conscience stomped on any fuzzy feelings you otherwise may have had. Now all that's in your heart is cold, calculated malice.

Is it just me, or do the reasons people have for switching get shittier and shittier as we build more wagons?

>implying an uncc'd Tracker isn't a good reason to switch a wagon

I can't see myself taking my vote off of Vezok at the moment until he replies to my PBPA rebuttal and stops just going along with wagons for the hell of it. He's -really- irking me very very badly.

You're a little behind the times but I can't say I honestly disagree with you. I still don't know why vez was abandoned, and why those that broke the wagon (Seraphim, Socrates, and MPR) aren't being held accountable for it.

RF is my new best friend with post 357. Congratulations on earning those town points, big guy.

I'd much, MUCH rather lynch vezo and I still want answers from the jumpers but even moreso I want the game to progress forward.

But you're voting Seraphim, fool. Fix it.

Thank you for post 366, Fate. You won't hear that from me often, so take it to heart.

Consider yourself #2 on my scumlist now.

That was bad, agreed.

My only statement:

FFFFFUUUUUU @ people on seraphim over vezok

I don't like this lynch, but this game must go forward, and it's clear that you guys intend to stay on.

Lemme just say that I feel the scummiest people on the wagon are vezok, Jack, and MPR in that order.

This is a good post to end the day on, because I basically agree with it completely. I'd lynch them all if I had it my way.

Rayfrost is scum.
Why is he scum? Real simple. Sera wasn't an accident. Sera got daycopped. Ray knew that running Sera up would reveal another PR and took the power hammer because it was going to become apparent.

This is too simplistic because RayFrost could've lynched Seraphim much earlier. There's no way RF, as scum, would've known that L-1 Seraphim would've stuck around as long as it did. All the while players like MPR, vez, and, to an extent, Fate, were egging the wagon on.

I'm honestly not sure where to go right now. That Seraph wagon was among the dumbest wagons I had ever seen. (Almost as bad as my own lynch in GoW mafia, eh Fate?) I tend to agree with Spy that the wagon was heavily scum driven, but there were a whole lot of votes on that wagon that I didn't like, including his own. At least some of them had to come from town.

And you were a part of it. Not physically of course, but you made sure that vez wasn't lynched, and you worked hard to keep it that way. You also helped keep SSBF from being lynched (which was the right move, btw, but it necessarily makes the Seraphim lynch that much more probably). You weren't even voting anyone at the end of the day. How do you even have room to talk? Hint:

You don't.

Post 424 is genuine, but, more importantly, it's townie sounding.

The contradiction here is brought to light by the extensive discussion that korts made about lots of players other than nacho that were actually more solid than his reasonoing for his vote, not to mention the utter and complete lack of any mention of seraphim. This means seraphim didn't catch his eye... at all. Looking at the actual timing of the post, I would like to point out that this is when tremendous pressure and an entire wagon was forming on vezok, not to mention the attacks on DH. The sudden attack on seraphim was born from nothing new that was major since his previous postings: deflection at its finest. Not to mention that he's made multiple spiels regarding vezok, but has yet to actually vote him. Oh, he hims and haws, saying that he would, but... and then points to something else.

I feel somewhat obliged to try and defend Korts, despite not knowing what what going through his head throughout the game. I think you're letting your hindsight blind you a bit. Seraphim was just as, if not moreso, guilty of demolishing the vez wagon than was Korts. Check out post 275 for more on that, even though it comes later. In the interim though, Korts was engaged with Fate at one point, possibly throwing him off a bit.

I actually had this written in my head before the day started, but it changed a bit when I actually read korts' postings. He's avidly avoided joining a vezok wagon at all times: when it was starting up, an apparantly non-serious vote on nacho, and when it was peaking: a mention that he disliked vezok's play but a distractor in the form of a seraphim vote. Korts has made many mentions of vezok, not pursued them, not fully engaged in them, and held them at arms length as if hoping that the stink will not attract to him. Distancing. Defending through distraction. Ignoring cases.

I can assure you though, RayFrost, that I do not feel as Korts did about vez or you. I would be more than happy to lynch him today, and I have no interest in keeping him alive whatsoever. If I was playing yesterday, I would've gladly voted him. I hope that helps alievate your concerns somewhat.

Whereas once I thought Vezok was scummy because he was completely avoiding questions, looking through his (ugh god, I can't believe I'm mentioning this.....)

META

*gag, ugh*

...anyway, I've found that Vezok's always been a fine connoisseur of really vague play and question avoiding. I'd like to believe that Korts just took the opportunity to weakly jump on the guy who looks obviously scummy instead of a bussing situation.

Nah, I don't buy it. Nuts to meta. We're calling a spade a spade here. vez is anti-town. Period. He needs to be lynched. Period. I don't keep people alive on the basis of "oh, he's always useless, so oh well!".

I doubt anybody here can tell me that Jack is playing like he usually does. I remember him remarking that he dislikes playing scum. I do too, and you know what I do when I get a role I don't like? I lurk.

Although I've been none too happy with Socrates this game, this is a good point. Jack has had no presence at this game at all. This is completely, utterly unlike him. I don't know if it's good or bad, but it isn't normal.

Post 472 is a good opening post for VV, hopefully he'll make me feel better about him than Socrates did.

I DONT GIVE A FUCK WHO ELSE YOU THINK IS SCUM IF YOU THINK VEZO IS SCUM THEN PUSH THAT VANILLA SHIT UNTIL THE DAWN TURNS RED BECAUSE WE STILL HAVE A GUNSMITH OUT THERE AND THATS WHAT YOURE FISHING FOR.

Hate to break it to you, Spyrex, but Fate is right. You had no excuse then, and you have no excuse now. Especially with Seraphim's flip. I still think you're okay, but unfortunately this keeps me from actively fighting the slings and arrows being thrown at you.

Those are 20 awful pages.
But on a whole different matter, SpyreX ain't scum <<
Neither is Vezo, he's just like THAT.

I'm glad we agree on these points. Now take your vote off of Korts, plz?

unvote, vote:korts

It's too late to try and act like Jack, Jack.

Why are we lynching Jack now? He doesnt particularely look like scum

You have to defend this. I can easily say, without reservation, Jack has had the least amount of presence in this game. Even behind vaz.

[

Town

]RECK---dramonic---Elli----Fate-Spyrex---DH-[

∙

]--VV--Nacho-Jack---vez-MPR------[

Scum

]

Let's go with a scumscale like this. My top three picks for scum are MPR, vez, and Nacho. Jack and VV are both lynches I would support as well.

MPR was tested at the beginning of the game, and he did not do well. Ever since then he has kind of just flapped about, never really becoming a solid force in this game. So, like I was saying, he starts off on full defensive mode. He's worried about the wagon on him, and he doesn't just bring it up once or twice, which would, if that were the case, most likely be forgivable. Instead he continues to harp on about it over the course of several posts. A little later he criticizes Seraphim for voting vez. His reasoning for doing so is that Seraphim is moving his vote around too much, but I don't think even MPR fully bought that attack. It seems incredibly half-hearted and out of the blue, and he never brings it up again as far as I know. No, his real reasoning, I contend, is that he didn't want to see vez get lynched. Instead of standing up for vez, like a townie who wants to push his opinion would, he subtlely begins to undermine those on the wagon instead. This will not be the first time MPR comes to vez's defense. A little later MPR says he won't vote vez due to the size of the wagon... oh, it's not because it bothers him, but it bothers

Socrates

. Although, granted, this may just be MPR putting his foot in his mouth when it comes to phrasing something otherwise innocuous (Socrates was actually in the process of testing something), it bothers me that we're still talking about vez here. This is the second time MPR has tried to prevent this wagon from getting momentum. His post 230, the third major interaction with vez, is just pure coaching. Right out in the open and no one called him on it. Since this post, MPR has stayed mostly tight-lipped. As well he should, as the mafia scored big time in, one, stopping the vez lynch (he's either scum or VT, either way the mafia got the town to lynch someone more important), two, lynching the Vigilante, and three, shooting the Tracker. MPR no longer needs to put himself out there as the hardest work is done.

vez, by all accounts, should've been yesterday's lynch. He should be lynched today. He should be lynched tomorrow. He should be lynched in the morning, in the evening, and at supper time. Not as a policy lynch, but as a merit-based lynch. He has already claimed, he brings no use to the town, and until he does, he doesn't deserve to be alive until the endgame. The cherry on the top is that MPR is totally connected to vez, as I've already proven. In normal circumstances, vez could conceivably be a bad VT, but likely not scum. In this game, I'd say there's a much better chance for him to be scum. He skipped the first few pages because it's too much to read (why you would spend time playing a forum-based Internet game if you don't like to read is beyond me), he completely out of the blue lines up a Seraphim lynch on the back of an SSBF flip, and then he criticizes the town for not following through on lynching the uncc'd Tracker. This person is anti-town to the hilt, and he needs to be taken out. There's a good chance he'll flip scum too, don't discount vez just because, "oh that's just his way". Oh, and by the way, vez

claimed

already.

Nacho and Jack are basically equally scummy in my opinion. Neither of them have had any real presence in this game, although Nacho may have had slightly more to say. They both throw votes around, don't defend them, and only pop up when someone has the nerve to vote them. With Nacho I'm willing to cut a little more slack for, because I know he can be lazy as town (although I really enjoy his posts when he's on his game, I wish he would give us more), but Jack should give us a little more worry. As VV, Socrates, and Fate have implied, this is not like Jack normally plays. You take meta arguments for what they're worth, but you know it's true regardless. Additionally, Nacho was on the same boat as vez in wanting the SSBF lynch to go through after the claim. That just boggles my mind.

My top town reads, not including RECK, are dramonic (RF), Elli, and Fate. RF was on top of the game at the end of yesterday, and he brings up good points (which I tried to refute the best I could) against Korts. Korts isn't scum though, and I should know. Korts was not the reason the vez wagon failed yesterday. This was the work of Socrates, Seraphim, and MPR. If there isn't a scum flip between MPR and VV, I would be very surprised. We all know that vez wagon should've happened. If not when it was at its height, it should've happened after SSBF. Elli has just been his usual helpful self. I've seen no problem with his short, sweet posts. I don't care for Fate's newfound style and overall attitude, but when someone is right, they're right. Fate has been on top of the game and making positive contributions. I especially liked when he backed down from Korts earlier when Korts proved that he had a valid argument. It shows me that Fate isn't just pushing arguments for the sake of confusing the town.

Vote: MehPlusRawr

[RedCoyote]

still, your arguments seem to favor Vezo as a more solid scum pick. Is there something else I'm missing?

Either one would be fine with me really. The angle I'm going with is that if MPR flips town, then I'd probably be a little more hesitant to push vez as scum. The inverse isn't necessarily true though, so if vez flips town I think I would still be pushing an MPR lynch. I think MPR will just give us slightly more information, but, yeah, either one is fine.

---

When do we lynch Jack though?

Well, all scum are PRs, right? As long as we hit scum, we're gold. That's why I propose we go after who looks most like scum. From my perspective, that's MPR.

---

Yeah, that's pretty much how I play, RC. At the beginning of the game, apparently most people thought I was town after the wagon thing, but oddly enough, people are wagoning me now for that. I think that Vezo is town because scum really would care more about being lynched- a third of one team is much worse for that team to lose as opposed to an eleventh of a team.

The major problem I have with you, MPR, is how I count you've came to vez's defense on three separate occasions. The first when you criticized Seraphim for voting him under the guise that he was "moving his vote too much" (this despite it being D1, and I alsodon't recall you ever bringing up again), then you say you can't join the vez wagon because Socrates wouldn't like it, and then you give some pitty-pat response to one of vez's crappy posts that looks to me much more like coaching than it does like a townie trying to scumhunt.

Alone, each of these points can easily be refuted, but because they're together, and because they all revolve around vez, it leads me to believe that you have knowledge about the game that we don't have. Either you guys are partners, or maybe you're trying to buddy up to him, hoping that when he flips town people will trust you. Either way, I think you're the best lynch the town has right now.

---

RC I did read your post FTR and I think SpyreX is still WAY too high on your town above town list. I mean DH is more townie than him and VV hasn't been dead weight stupid yet has he>

Oh, no, VV has done fine. I wasn't a huge fan of Socrates though, as you probably saw if you read that post. VV is moving up at the moment. Spyrex is probably moving backwards, but he's still on my town side. I agree with you that I absolutely did not like him going after RayFrost, but I think, before that, he had been solid. I honestly don't see many problems with Spyrex's D1 play.

[RedCoyote]

town read

-noun
1. A read that's town.
2. Something that RC fails to grasp.

You can keep throwing that up there, but you'll keep getting the same answer. No. I don't buy it. I think it's too coincidental. I don't like the interaction between you two at all, and I think the town would be remiss to so easily toss this opportunity aside just to lynch a lurker. I'd like to think I have slightly more objective a view, coming in after a lot of play had already happened. With that, if we're serious about lynching Jack/Nacho, then we definitely need to get them in here to talk to us. However, I think I've heard enough from MPR/vez to know that there is something fishy going on.

[RedCoyote]

I really like DH's post, I'm glad to see Nacho back, and I completely echo Fate's sentiments over the last few posts. I honestly don't know which player here is worse, but vez is nothing if he isn't making his lynch more appetizing every time he opens his mouth... that is, until MPR gets a chance to speak.

Mod

, can we get a prod on Jack please?

[RedCoyote]

Hmm...

Something tells me MPR and vez aren't partners. :/

[RedCoyote]

The main reason why I preferred an MPR lynch yesterday over vez was that if MPR had flipped scum, I would've been sure that vez was his buddy. The same wasn't necessarily true the other way around.

That being said, vez's quickhammer does make him look bad. I've been hammering out this scene in my head, let me know what you guys think about it:

Mafia QT

Nacho: The trick is we have to do it all together, you know, catch them at L-2 or L-1 or something.
vez: so... we try to bus Jack?
Jack: Yeah, keep doing that. But what Nacho is saying is that he's going to try to push at both you and MPR, and when the time is right, we swing our weight on MPR.
vez: what if he claims Gunsmith?
Nacho: Hopefully he won't get a chance to claim. Although by doing this one of us will most likely be sacrificing ourselves. I think it's worth it though.
vez: ok you can count on me
Nacho: Also RC is a damn good player, I think he's onto us all.
Jack: Yes, he is one of the best I have ever seen.
vez: yup
Hoopla: He's such a hunk!

I'm not sure on all the details, but I'm thinking vez sacrificed himself for this lynch. Especially after lynching the Vig on D1, it's hard for me to imagine a VT so willing to throw caution to the wind for a second time. After all, vez already claimed, so he knew he wasn't the Gunsmith himself. How did he know that MPR wasn't?

It doesn't add up for vez.

Elli/Fate/DH/RECK, what do you guys think of my theory?

[RedCoyote]

Forgot my

vote: vezokpiraka

.

[RedCoyote]

Alright, alright. Hold your horses. I didn't tell y'all to rush to a no lynch yesterday or we could've had one of the scumbuckets out already.

I've got some good news, some bad news, and some great news.

The good news is that Korts investigated DH during the first night and came up with "no gun".
The bad news is that I investigated Socrates/VV during the second night and, of course, came up with "no gun".
The great news is that I managed to pull off one guilty investigation before I was vanillized (I was told that I visited RECK and was stripped of my powers during the fourth night).
I visited Nacho on the third night and was told that he does "have a gun".

I'm all for second amendment rights and all, but in this town it's kill or be killed.

Vote: Nachomamma

Now I've got a few leads (since I had plenty of time to read over the thread) as to who Nacho's partners are. I want to share these with y'all before the day ends, but I figure I'd give y'all some time to ingest this.

[RedCoyote]

I definitely think Jack. I think I can connect him fairly easily to Nacho with what they've had to say about each other.

Spyrex/Elli is a little tougher. There's the possibility as well that DH is a Godfather. I could see that as possible, but we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.

oh wow.
Supersmash was an all-town lynch.

[RedCoyote]

*phew* I had been worrying about how this game would turn out given I didn't have Internet during the afternoon/evening. Much props goes out to RECK for the swift action.

Ty for the love Seph + everyone. As lop-sided as the game may look at first glance, the scumteam were all very deliberative in each move we made. That no lynch threw us into a big debate, I think, because Jack, me, and DH all had different opinions about how we should handle day 4.

And it's really hard to quantify the unheard of luck that the scum had with that first lynch/nightkill. When the two arguably most important town power roles are taken out, you know the town is going to have an uphill battle. I enjoyed playing the game though, and this group was a lot of fun.

[RedCoyote]

<3

And, of course, the modding was as terrific as one can come to expect from Hoopla.

[RedCoyote]

Actually, I loved RC's #617. I think I went back and reread that 5 times and laughed every time. I like funny people(Even if they're a-holes and stole my claim D=<).

<3

In actuality Hoopla was picking on me, although I think me, Jack, and DH had a nice rapport.

I hope Korts/DH/Jack don't mind, but that's the actual scum QT (if it wasn't posted already). You'll notice it really jumps in activity as the game gets down to the wire. Like I said, all three of us kind of had a different idea in mind about how to handle D4, so this was likely one of the most important QT's I've had in my time as MS (it's at least second though behind zoraster's Pledge of Allegiance large theme when I was just a lackey in a terrific scumteam of DGB, Debonair Danny DiPietro, Gammagooey, and Chronopie).