Mafia 119: MURDER AT HOTEL DEATH(GAME OVER)

[horrordude0215]

Going through the thread, posting comments as I read it. (By the way, Wednesdays and Thursdays I have church, so I may not be as active as the rest of the week, but I should be okay!)

Jack Post 6 - Why would you assume there's a PR? Role-related or Scum gambit would be my guess...

Stef Post 13 - Yeah sorry about that... I pissed a lot of people off last time I was here

CKD Post 21 intrigues me... It'll be interesting to know what his claim is, because normally people don't do it unless it's miller or something of the sort.

Espeonage, go from voting CKD in post 27 to unvoting him in your next post (31) and not explaining it until two posts later (42) ... why not clarify yourself sooner? Not to mention, your explanation doesn't make sense with your actions.

Looker Post 36 - Why would you vote Nero Cain based off of his random vote when I don't think he had posted since then?

A2RB - Post 45 you go from voting yourself to voting for Pomegranite for "Not finding a humorous reason to RVS". You didn't comment on anything else in the thread. I'm guessing VI or Jester here.

Jack's post 54 makes me lol... He makes sense because he's calling you town? Huh? I still think it's a stretch to call the using of an emoticon "obvtown behavior". And why DH?

VOTE: Espeonage - Please comment on my questions about you. Until then, you get my vote

[horrordude0215]

Sorry about not posting yesterday, everyone... I basically had to help my dad and his girlfriend go and rescue my stepbrother from being kidnapped by his dad. (Long story)

Anyways, I'll have a decent post up later today... Promise

[horrordude0215]

@ HD: It was for the purpose of seeing reactions either a scumbag trying to get opportunistic or a townie doing something along the vein of what actually happened.

I can understand that, but when you voted for him after he said he needed to claim something before the day ends (post 27), and then later backpedaled by saying that scum wouldn't say they needed to claim unless it was miller (post 46), it understandably raises flags.

We don't know if scum had night talk pre-game so I'm considering that little spat null.

IIRC, doesn't scum ALWAYS have pregame talk?


Jack, you FoS'd Snake because you didn't believe he had a decent enough post for Page 3. Didn't you read his "This is my first non-newbie game, and I like to read things a lot before I comment on them" post?

1 - to make sure that my vote doesn't add to any kind of quick lynch, but let it be known I would be happy with Esp's lynch.

He has 4 votes on him. There are I think 10 to lynch. How the hell would you contribute to a quicklynch?

I may not be around regularly at the moment (or at least as regular as I have been in the past) if I'm not going to be around for potentially 24 hours I don't wish to have a vote on someone and have that vote possibly allow even an accidental quick lynch (recent issues elsewhere that I'm not allowed to comment on have shown that to me). Hence why I'm not out and out voting him for the moment. Consider me just being safe instead of sorry.

Okay, first of all, 24 hours is not a quicklynch. Second, you don't think someone would get on and unvote if Espeonage was placed at L-1 so far from deadline? Come on... you seem like scum not wanting to jump on a wagon to me.

FoS

for now.

CKD deserves an FOS until he explains himself berrter.

ESP ISO 3 is bad.
ESP ISO 9 is WIFOM

vote: DemonHybird

All the guy does is vote and then goes V/LA.

There are so many things wrong here. First you FoS CKD until he explains himself, which he already said he would do before the day end. Then you seem to briefly ISO Espeonage (The highest wagon) and give vague satements without any reasoning, and then vote someone completely different because they went V/LA. WTF?

Major FoS

VOTE: Pom

That is the scum that is most likely on my wagon.

I was considering leaving you alone and tackling someone else until I saw this post. Wth?

Jack 108 - Huh? He's scum because of how he justified his vote? And nice OMGUS there, btw.

Jack 113 - ... I really don't know what to say here. You voted EVERYONE. Why? So you could call OMGUS on them?

CKD, thank you for claiming... I would say that you should have definitely claimed today because of that.

[horrordude0215]

Now, which one of those

4

are the most scummy?

Take a look back: here's CKD who's hanging onto the mystery of the shot-count for dear life. Do you think that's scummy, to not give that information over to scum when town doesn't need it now, or townly? He's also pretty brash and proactive this game, provoking those who want to screw up whatever plan he has.

Here's Pomegranate, who's been under the radar, passive in her views and soft-defended by Espy (someone who REALLY should be lynched either now or later). She is also one of the neighbors (who never wanted to be outed, by the way; I've been in plenty of games where scum neighbors did not want to be outed), which gives her just as much of a chance of being scum as CKD does but is more likely due to composure differences.

Now, who do you go for?

This seems a bit unfairly balanced to me... First you say you're going to compare ALL of the neighbors, and then you only talk about two of them, clearly favoring one over the other.

Unvote

for now... Esp has answered the questions I wanted him to already.

[horrordude0215]

zwet is alright in my opinion.

I would love to know how you reached this conclusion... the only thing that I can get from zwet's ISO is that he outed the other vig group and has done absolutely nothing else. How is that "alright"?

Vote: Zwet

[horrordude0215]

He claims when he should have obviously stayed quiet, provided absolutely no content all game, kept his RVS vote on instead of removing it or trying to find reasons for it, and lurks, but he's still -alright-. I'm gonna have to disagree with you there

[horrordude0215]

Well he's my vote for now until I can get time to look at everyone extensively. We'll agree to disagree, sure.

[horrordude0215]

I was reading through the past few pages when I came across something that I must have missed before:

Regarding your question: I voted Nero Cain to have a genuine RVS on the board.

This confuses me... to have a genuine RVS? Explain more please, because looking back, I see you voted him to "unrandomize your vote". How can you have an un-random RVS?

didnt have to tell you

jack

.

I think we've found your post restriction.

I'd love for you to elaborate please.

If we don't lynch curiouskarmadog, SnakePlissken I want you to Watch one of the four claimed neighbor-vigs.

Did you just point out a possible crumb for everyone to see? Especially when it's that of a power role, it seems REALLY scummy to me.

Unvote, Vote: Looker

[horrordude0215]

He was being picky, I think... Calling them Vig Neighbors is inaccurate. They are Neighbors that can kill basically

[horrordude0215]

you are, in fact, part of the scum faction. Dumb ass.

I disagree, and almost think that CKD is part of the mafia faction because he decided to make that decision on his own.

this theory only works if their “neighbor” faction doesn’t know each other’s alignment as well, along with CKD and I say this confidently knowing I’m town aligned, but also understanding that the rest of you have no way of knowing

WTF? First you go and say that you're almost positive CKD is scum, to that you almost think he's scum, to he may be scum if the neighbor faction don't know the other alignment as well? Explain. Now.

You seem to be lurking (like me...) And the it seems like the second one of the town votes espy you unvote...

Uhh... what? How am I lurking? I didn't post on sunday because I had church and I spent the day with family. However, I made 6 posts yesterday alone, so you really can't say I'm lurking, now can you? And I unvoted because espeonage had answered my questions.

Unvote, Vote: Looker

Don't like the many votes/unvotes going on with you.

What's the problem with me voting and unvoting? I vote based on my suspicions at the time, and if I see something really scummy, I'll probably switch my vote because of it.

In response to CKD's 283. I would say that it definitely favors scum if the town neighbor dies... it is an extra nk that way. And I don't know if I would have kept the one-shot part quiet... I don't see how it's useful other than for confirmation reasons with the other neighbor pair.

Singer's backtracking 287 is suspect.

Okay, caught up. SS is the scum neighbor.

So we have Esp, Looker, and SS for scum so far. One or two more and I'd say we have the entire team

[horrordude0215]

So we have Esp, Looker, and SS for scum so far. One or two more and I'd say we have the entire team

Town, Town, 33% chance of being Town.

I get you saying that you're town, that's natural. But to say that Esp is town? That's quite a stretch...

[*] It's only scummy if you believe it. And I wasn't the only one to notice it. We should dictate his actions as a Town,

and if he's still alive in the morning, we lynch him.

[/*][/list]

You may not have been the only one to notice it, but you were the only one to mention it, which is scummy as hell. And WTF? at bolded. Setting up lynches in advance is extremely scummy.

Horrordude's misrep in 306 is very unsettling. If you're going to quote me, quote me correctly. The "if" that comes before everything else in the first part you quoted me saying is very important, and if you leave that out, it changes the entire meaning of what I was trying to say. Also, I'll explain whatever you need me to explain, as soon as you start reading things thoroughly, or stop misrepping me on purpose. Either/Or. I'm not picky.

I would love to know how I misrepped you... I included the "if" part. First you go from saying that CKD is scum, to you almost think he's scum, to he may be scum conditionally. How is that a misrep?

@Horrid dude, for some reason I get a scum read on you from you last post. I get your lurking point (it was my entire fucking fault I didn't read the times on your post. Really sorry) but How many times have you switched your vote? And if you still thought ESP was scum why did you unvote him? He is the largest wagon.

at the name first of all. And here's all of my votes so far:

ISO 0 - Voted Espeonage because he needed to address some issues I had with him.
ISO 3 - Unvoted Espeonage because at the time I thought he had answered my questions properly.
ISO 4 - Voted Zwet as a pressure vote to get him to actually do something.
ISO 7 - Voted Looker because I thought he did something really scummy that couldn't go unnoticed. (IE pointing out a crumb)

[horrordude0215]

Ugh.. botched the tags there. Pretend like the [quote="zwetschenwasser"] isn't there

[horrordude0215]

Yeah, you're one to talk

[horrordude0215]

Why not?

[horrordude0215]

So we have Esp, Looker, and SS for scum so far. One or two more and I'd say we have the entire team

Town, Town, 33% chance of being Town.

I get you saying that you're town, that's natural. But to say that Esp is town? That's quite a stretch...

• It's only scummy if you believe it. And I wasn't the only one to notice it. We should dictate his actions as a Town,
  and if he's still alive in the morning, we lynch him.

You may not have been the only one to notice it, but you were the only one to mention it, which is scummy as hell. And WTF? at bolded. Setting up lynches in advance is extremely scummy.

• Why is it such a stretch? Because there's a lot of people voting him Day 1?
• If scum notice it, they kill him, it's over. If we notice it, at least we have a chance to protect him. Also, I understand your concern with the bolded; your logic is not lost on me - I hope mine isn't on you.

It's a stretch because, well look at Esp's contribution to the game so far... How can you call that town?

And yeah, if scum notice a possible crumb, they'll probably kill them. But pointing out one is even scummier, because I didn't even consider that a crumb at all, and it'd be a very subtle one at that, so I doubt scum would as well. However, because you pointed it out, he could very well be a target tonight, thanks to you. And the reason I pointed that out is because when I see people point out crumbs for everyone to see I immediately think "Hmm... that could very well be scum getting a message to their buddies in case they don't make it through the day". Does my logic make sense?

You're town, by the way, so relax.

That was regarding Zwet... How did you reach that conclusion?

@horrid: So you voted and changed your vote 4 times in 14 posts, that means that there is a 29% chance that you will switch your vote in your next post. What do you consider wishy-washy to be?

Please call me HORROR... thanks. And it's not wishy-washy if I give reasons for my votes and unvotes is it? I find someone to be scummier than my previous vote, and I act upon it. Explain how that's wishy-washy.

SS 348 - I see you jumping on a very slight Vez BW and parroting Voll's 345... care to explain?

hoping to update in the next 48

I don't really have much for you right now other than this post.
UNVOTE: VOTE: curiouskarmadog

Reasons? He said he would post within 48 hours and you vote him because he didn't respond to your post or something?

I'm not.
You'll get my reads day 2.
So Looker looks like town to me. Anyone want to agree?

At every part of this post. You say that you won't reveal any reads until day 2. Then you give a read on looker, saying he's town. (BTW, I can't disagree with you more)

Looker's 366 seem to be more scumbuddy direction to me.

More looker votes plz

[horrordude0215]

I got it! Jack has the post restriction, and it's to be as anti-town as possible and not do anything!

Seriously though, could you elaborate on the FoS?

[horrordude0215]

Looker, I'm going to go through your post bit by bit here.

Horrordude, you're placing the likelihood of scum noticing the soft-claim dependent upon whether or not you noticed the soft-claim when the only way there'd be a correlation is if you're scum.

Wrong. I'm just saying that the likelyhood of ANYONE noticing it is extremely unlikely. I don't think anyone else had mentioned it or seen it before that.

Btw, if I could get everyone to comment on this, that'd be great! Did you notice the alleged soft-claim before Looker pointed it out?

It's also safe to say that I was in no danger of being lynched prior to me pointing out the soft-claim, which means I wouldn't have to sneak a message to anyone to do something that, if I were scum, I could've done myself.

This one makes sense, and the only response I would have is that you know the tide can change at any moment, don't you? (Weak argument, I know, but it's a semi-valid point nonetheless)

Also, if we protect him, scum will waste a kill. And yes, your logic very much makes sense.

Looker, you're placing the likelihood of him surviving the night on the fact that we
1) Have a doctor or something similar.
2) Have a doctor that would also assume that is a breadcrumb and would assume scum would see it as well.
3) Have a doctor that would be willing to waste a protection on Snake rather than on someone that they may see more pro-town or valuable for one reason or another.
4) Have a doctor that wouldn't try to WIFOM the scum out.

So basically what you'd be counting on would be that we have a doctor that would also assume that the fact Snake capitalized the letter W in watch in a meaningless post to be a breadcrumb and would assume scum would see it and assume the same as well, the doctor would be willing to waste a protection on Snake rather than on someone that they may see more pro-town or valuable for one reason or another, and wouldn't try to WIFOM the scum out. That seems pretty presumptious, don't you think?

I'm Pretty sure I already know the answer to this, but what's your read on Zwet now?

[horrordude0215]

...Huh? Does someone else wanna cover that post or should I?

[horrordude0215]

Screw it, I'm gonna take it.

I have reads.
I just don't post them day 1.

Noted.

Horrordude is scum guys.

I'm sorry, I thought you didn't post your reads on D1?

He is not doing anything here guys.

And what have YOU done lately?

Jut setup speculating in hope of fishing.

I like fishing! What are we going for? Bass or Salmon? Seriously though, how am I fishing?

I'm gonna see if I can look at your meta really quickly before I decide if you're a VI or not, though.

[horrordude0215]

Sorry about the triple post, but unfortunately the meta brought me to see your playstyle as a nulltell because you've had it forever pretty much.

@Vezok... Is english your first language?

[horrordude0215]

Voll covered a lot of this already, but I'm gonna try and respond myself too.

I have reads.
I just don't post them day 1.

Noted.

Horrordude is scum guys.

I'm sorry, I thought you didn't post your reads on D1?

This does not invalidated his reads or reasons

Agreed, and I didn't say that it did, did I?

He is not doing anything here guys.

And what have YOU done lately?

This does not invalidated his reasons on you. Just because he doesn't post much doesn't mean his reasons are invalid. Your point is a logical fallacy, which I am too lazy to get my ass of this chair and look up its name in my logic book. However, if you do nothing, you are still doing nothing independently from what other people are doing.

Again, I didn't say it did. However, it seems like you agree with him that I haven't done anything in the game so far. I'd like you to explain please...

I'm gonna see if I can look at your meta really quickly before I decide if you're a VI or not, though.

That boarders on omgus as well as (sorta) this next post:

...Huh? Does someone else wanna cover that post or should I?

I don't like the tone of that above post. I want to let ESP post his post before I fully make up my mind on weather or not to vote for you. I have a little bit (lets say a big) gut-tell on you. As Well as other reasons, which I think, I have posted/commented.

I don't see how it's OMGUS, do you? Saying that you're going to look into them before you give a read on them isn't considered OMGUS, last I checked. In fact, I'd say that it's quite the opposite.

[horrordude0215]

Espeonage's Post 65 is what made me point it out; I took his reaction as an incredulous acknowledgment of SnakePlissken's claim. It all comes down to a guessing game, which is better than giving scum an open Shot. And yes, Zwet is still town.

You're really stretching with the Esp post. In fact, I really don't see how you can even READ it as him recognizing the claim. What I see, and I'm assuming many others see as well (Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong), is that Esp was commenting that Snake should read the game and realize we're out of RVS.

[*]That'd be an interesting theory, if I were Doc and trying to draw all NKs to SnakePlissken so that I could protect him and HorrorDude was scum speculating setup to see if I was Doc so that he could NK me.

Again, this is a HUGE stretch. All of a sudden I'm fishing because I'm not assuming we have a doc? (Which BTW I noticed you didn't comment on the last part of my 385, despite having quoted the entire post)

Which is not me, by the way; it's vollkan.

lol, are you trying to get

him

killed?

Not necessarily.

That's not a no...

"Bullets points" won't help you.

I think he meant that you should summarize your case.

[horrordude0215]

It's ridiculous how much I'm convinced that looker is scum

It's ridiculous how little you've actually contributed in this game and how many reads you've given without reasons.

[horrordude0215]

Opens with a solid point on zwet, follows up with pointing out Espy had, indeed, pointed out Snake's claim well before he had (I didn't even put much thought into Looker pointing it out because Espy had already shown it quite clearly by then anyway, why is Looker getting grief for that and not Espy?)

Are you fucking serious? *facepalm* Look at Espy's post!

unvote

Came in late and didn't realise that RV had pretty much finished. I shoule Watch out more I guess.

Dude, seriously?

Someone explain how the HELL you can translate that as "You shouldn't have sofclaimed"?

Looker is obv. town, he's pushing people, and pointing out things that need pointing out.

How the fuck is pointing out a softclaim something that needs to be done and is obvtown? WTF?

Someone ask me something simple about the game please.

Did you notice Snake's alleged softclaim?

Looker is scum, and when he flips as such, I think I'm gonna be taking a closer look at Prana.

[horrordude0215]

@horror... Have to post quick, but read my post and your post. Read the quotes, you did say in not these terms, that it does invalidate his reasons, thus you just lyed. Sorry I have to be so frank about but I have to run. I might not be able to post the rest of the day.

Quote me saying where I "invalidated" his reasons. I didn't. I was merely stating that he needed to explain his reads and not be so contradictory.

@Volk: Horrors only def was that vez was guilty of the same thing as him. This does not defend the point it simply attacks Vez. Also I think omgus does exist, however I don't base my tells on that alone.

I never said that vez was guilty of the same thing as me. Actually, I was pointing out that he calls me out for not posting content, and I mentioned that he hadn't done anything. This is the second time you've agreed with him that I haven't posted any content. EXPLAIN NOW.

kthxbai

[horrordude0215]

HorrorDude, it's not a matter of "how", it's a matter of "if". Espeonage's reaction was ambiguous enough to be taken multiple ways. Also, I wouldn't be so sure about me being scum.

As I mentioned before, it'd be a huge stretch to assume that's what it was. You've never disagreed with me in this aspect. But please comment on the doctor part of my 385.

If I gave you the promise of an interesting claim, would you keep me alive Day 2?

I go on a case-by-case basis with claims. If and when you get to L-1, we'll talk to then.

[horrordude0215]

By stating that that's what I thought it was, I'm refuting that it was a huge stretch. This entire conversation's been a disagreement.

Not necessarily. You can believe something and still think it's a stretch.
Apparently it's not the case this time though, my bad.

[horrordude0215]

And CKD's posts didn't read that to me... In fact he said that he'd claim by the end of the day no matter what, not that he only wanted to live to Day 2...

[horrordude0215]

Okay, so Looker's argument is moot. Lynch plz

[horrordude0215]

@horror, you haven't posted any content EXPLAIN NOW. and you did say that it (in other words) invalidated his point. And Why do you think lookers argument is moot?

Roflmao. Look at my ISO and tell me how I haven't posted any content.

And looker's argument is moot because once I called him out on the breadcrumb and all of his other scumminess, he was flailing and picking out any post he could and saying "Well what about that?". It was full of fail, basically.

Opens with a solid point on zwet, follows up with pointing out Espy had, indeed, pointed out Snake's claim well before he had (I didn't even put much thought into Looker pointing it out because Espy had already shown it quite clearly by then anyway, why is Looker getting grief for that and not Espy?)

Are you fucking serious? *facepalm* Look at Espy's post!

unvote

Came in late and didn't realise that RV had pretty much finished. I shoule Watch out more I guess.

Dude, seriously?

Someone explain how the HELL you can translate that as "You shouldn't have sofclaimed"?

Okay, now tell me the pro-town reasons for Espy's post there. And what you think the "Dude, seriously?" was referring to. That goes to both you HD, and Espy. What the hell was that comment referring to and what pro-town benefit that post gives us.

The pro-townness of that post was him calling out someone that should have been paying attention the the thread. It's a "Dude, you seriously haven't noticed that?"

Looker is obv. town, he's pushing people, and pointing out things that need pointing out.

How the fuck is pointing out a softclaim something that needs to be done and is obvtown? WTF?

Fair enough, that wasn't a great thing, but Espy had already done so, quite blatantly (I will admit I ignored it in the hope others had, but I feel the need to back up Looker in that he wasn't the one and only person, nor the first, to point it out). But what about the fact you're ignoring that Looker has made good points towards Zwet, Vezo and Espy? Do they all get ignored for what I can make out as one bad post in a sea of scum hunting?

Esp admitted that he hadn't blatantly pointed it out. Nice try, but no.

And I didn't say anything about me ignoring Vezo, Zwet, or Espy. I'm focusing on Looker right now though.

Looker is scum, and when he flips as such, I think I'm gonna be taking a closer look at Prana.

Awesome to know that you're going to not bother checking me unless Looker flips scum, how about using your time and resources to look me over now if you're that certain? Or are you just playing things carefully to see where issues lie? Or are you worried that when Looker flips it's going to be town (because you'd know wouldn't you?) and want to be able to back up hard and fast if need be? I'll go with option number 2.

More to the point, thanks to your defence of Espy (despite the fact he blatantly pointed out a claim) if either of you now flip town, I'll bet the house (if I had one at any road) on the other flipping scum as well.

I'm not looking at you now because I have a stronger read on Looker. I've stated this already.

And my defense of Espy? Where?

[horrordude0215]

Okay I had a giant ass post written up, but the site took a shit on me today and I lost it all. I'm too lazy to sum it up right now, but basically it says that while I'd prefer a looker lynch, that one isn't gonna happen today. Add that to the fact that Nero only posted when called out by jack and has yet to provide any real content since his return,

Unvote, Vote Nero Cain

[horrordude0215]

We seriously need a vote count.

And BTW hopefully by tomorrow I'll have a definitive read on Looker

[horrordude0215]

Yeah Cooldog needs to die... Him posting his fail "cases" on me was nothing but misreps and scumminess.

Vote: CooLDoG

[horrordude0215]

We're at 3 votes... that's L-5. Are we really in danger of a quicklynch?

[horrordude0215]

I think Prana was coming off incredibly reasonable at the end of d1/ I do not like at all how quickly the train built up on NC, and while once the attention turned on him he definitely started acting scummy and flailing all over the god damn place, I still think the initial reasoning behind the beginning was flimsy at best.

You think calling someone out for lurking is flimsy?

[horrordude0215]

Expect a post from me tomorrow

[horrordude0215]

CoolDog is scum. Lynch please.

Mod: Prod Looker?

He's still alive but hasn't posted since the 10th...

[horrordude0215]

@HD, why am I scum?

Already explained this. Read the thread.

@Horrordude (from a while ago)- Case based on lurking= flimsy. Case based on active lurking = stronger.

Sorry, but what was this in response to?

Sorry it's not the best post.

And i'll do a little Jack reading tonight.

[horrordude0215]

Vote: evilpacman18

explain now

[horrordude0215]

LOL snake fails.

Vote: SnakePlissen

[horrordude0215]

Unvote

then

[horrordude0215]

CKD, read the thread

Preview edit: Thank you

[horrordude0215]

Are you going to comment on the thread silver?

[horrordude0215]

CKD, Jack is town, so get your vote off of him

[horrordude0215]

This is jack's play Every. Single. Game. Seriously look it up. I will not be apart of a policy lynch on someone scummy because scum is to lazy to put up a real case on someone.

V/LA until saturday

I'll catch up then

Noted

[horrordude0215]

Sorry about flaking from the game everyone It was homecoming week at the school and I didn't have time to get on. Good luck to everyone... this was a really fun game!