NY 118 - BBM's Large Normal Mafia (Game!)

[Robbnva]

hey there, replacement player here, will try and catch up fast, gotta watch my team play football tonight but after that or tomorrow I will be up to speed.

if someone can give me a quick recap of where we are at right now, that would be a big bonus for me

thanks,

[Robbnva]

ok reading back it looks like the bandwagon on the claimed cop is not very good one, now of course he could be lying. on day 1 large games I usually go for the inactives or something that strikes me as odd.

and Kise's posts have seemed like he is just trying to post to not go inactive but not contributing anything worthwhile and trying to stay under the radar

[Robbnva]

hiphop

0: confirm
1: randomvote
2: pushes Wraith bandwagon
3: pushes Wraith bandwagon
4: pushes a bandwagon
5: humor
6: pushes Wraith bandwagon
7: pushes a bandwagon
8:

votes dana for wagon reasons

9: attacks Xite for voting dana despite suspecting Furcolow more

(hypocrisy, he votes for wagons for the sake of them being wagons)

10:

states that he votes for wagons because there are wagons

Hiphop is either blatant scum trying to slip under the radar or really dumb town who won't contribute until Day 2. His single-minded crusade for a bandwagon of some kind is unsettling.

while I agree with you on this, cause his pushes were for you, it just seems like an OMGUS accusation. if somebody else pointed it out it may have had more credibility

but yeah he needs to be kept an eye on but not sure he is scum, you have to remember scum wants to be under the radar as much as possible, and this isn't flying under the radar imo

[Robbnva]

What's the case on Frank?
Seriously this game is going at like 20 pages a second.

lol u ain't seen nothing, where i normally play, day 1 has taken more than 40 pages, and that is just in the first day

[Robbnva]

as much as I hate to admit it, i don't think furccolow is mafia either, but again my radar could be wrong.

he seems too much in the forefront to be mafia, mafia would typically lay low, not make them look to obvious on day 1

I would also expect to see a couple of bus votes and quick unvoting between mafia scum, that is usually the norm where I play

course I have learned playing here, I definitely aint in kansas anymore toto

[Robbnva]

right now I am sticking with my vote on Kise, but I think the interaction earlier between Jdodge and Benmage was quite a neat exchange, Benmage is someone I am gonna keep my eye on for a while.

[Robbnva]

as much as I hate to admit it, i don't think furccolow is mafia either, but again my radar could be wrong.

he seems too much in the forefront to be mafia, mafia would typically lay low, not make them look to obvious on day 1

I would also expect to see a couple of bus votes and quick unvoting between mafia scum, that is usually the norm where I play

course I have learned playing here, I definitely aint in kansas anymore toto

First part, I don't think so, but I could be wrong, so don't criticize me
Second, It's TOO GODDAMN EASY
Third, that's the kind of thing we make sure to look at after the flip
Fourth, making sure you have a chance to change your opinions if it calls for it.

What is that, three scum caught at least?

the first part, after reading back some more I may even retract my own statement, frank isn't looking too good

[Robbnva]

Robnnva feels like a townie to me, but he hasn't posted like a townie should.

ok so couple of questions

1. You first said I was scummy, why? - cause only thing I have really said is that mafia would probably try and lay low, this tactic is used all the time where I play

2. How should a townie post? Should I follow your stellar example?

3. Those in glass houses should not throw stones OR pot, meet kettle. I think both applies to you


My original post was off my earlier reads, I remembered you calling someone an idiot and no way would mafia be so bold as to be that confrontational like that.

Than reading back, not wanting to beleive the role claim, made me rethink my position

see Mr. Frank, if you are going to accuse somebody of being scummy, you need to back it up with a reason. Just saying so and so is scummy or if so and so is town, he isn't posting like it, just isn't going to fly with me

because if you are actually town, you have failed the rest of us cause quite a few people doubt you right now.

[Robbnva]

meh, just reading back I can see where hiphop's play is a little off and shanba's post made sense to me

[Robbnva]

assuming he's a cop:
1) We get the most information out of his lynch, as it has definitely polarized the town the most
2) as a result of getting the most information, it would be the best wagon to analyze
3) with 24 people, he isn't our only cop imo, and he's probably going to die so no investigation

lynch him, or he dies night 1, what's the difference? would you all rather out more power roles through pressure?
If you all want to out all these "power roles" through wagons, why don't we just fucking claim?
Sorry for the tone, but I'm a little ticked off you all are letting this liar off the hook.


assuming he is not a cop:
1) his team will be down to 4 or 5 members, probably 4 imo. They will be closer to 1 KP (they should have 2-3... 3 would be imba unless town has a lot of O.P. roles)
2) we can lynch people who buddied with him. Not people who he buddied with, though, as scum buddies with town
3) it would pretty much confirm a few people to me, like jdodge, or porochaz.
.

going back and re-reading, I really can't believe I am reading this, he is REALLY waying out the pros and cons of lynching the cop, assuming that there is another cop around, i'm sorry that is not an assumption I am willing to make.
the only other acceptable lynch on day 1 if it isn't scum, is lynching a nilla townie.

there is no need to even consider lynching a cop, even if it is a fake claim, the real cop will investigate and provide information later.

vote frank

unless I am off base, I think this is really the best move on day 1

[Robbnva]

If anyone has any doubt about frank, I suggest you go back and read Xite's posts, the way he breaks down mafia scum tells is amazing and if I had not already voted for frank, I would based on those reads

2nd - we almost lynched a "cop" if he was telling the truth, now we have an admitted nilla townie. Tbqh if I had to choose lynch nilla or scumhunt more and risk exposing another pr, I'd say go with frank

also, I'm not buying frank's last post, seems too "poor me"

[Robbnva]

Also, I think Wraith is town. I don't want to lynch him.

Why?

this

if you are going to say somebody is town, it would be helpful for a reason so others can see if they agree or disagree

[Robbnva]

when I'm gone town will lose.

OMG,, this is the post I always wait for.

Really? we are going to lose cause we lynch you? how is that exactly?

you claimed a vanilla townie, you serve no purpose but providing your opinions on who scum is, yet you even admit yourself that you need to change your stlyle, and you call Xcite an amateur?

and this town is going to lose without me, is such a lame attempt, I can honestly say I have NEVER used that line, even when I have been scum.

I have been lynched as a backup cop cause nobody believed me and I still never threw out that garbage line.

if you really are trying to save yourself you are doing a horrible job at it

[Robbnva]

oops my bad good sir, i'll try and not do that anymore.

Can I just call you X?

[Robbnva]

my vote is on frank right now, he is by far the safest vote after outing a PR, since he is only a townie with no powers.

[Robbnva]

my vote is on frank right now, he is by far the safest vote after outing a PR, since he is only a townie with no powers.

how are you sure he's a townie? And if he is, why are you voting for him?

because I was always taught that once you out a power role on day 1, you try and get out with as little damage as possible.
Also it is so easy for mafia to claim vanilla townie, that on day one you lynch the nilla townie no question.

this will give us plenty of information to use in the next day phase.

Not sure if any of you guys know who Papa Zito is, but he was one of the ones who taught me this strategy and he is a pretty decent mafia player, so i trust what i know and I trust the people who taught me.

Would I rather nail scum, of course but at what cost? run somebody else up to be lynched and pray he is not the doctor? no thanks.

[Robbnva]

and I am not sure he is a townie, I am not sure any of you guys are townies but that is how you play the game.

tbh, I am not even sure if the cop is actually a cop, but you NEVER lynch a cop claim on day 1.

[Robbnva]

@X - that was just worded wrong, I meant he has claimed nilla. I think he is scum or a really horrible mafia player

[Robbnva]

The part I find funny is RIGHT after singer says David fake claims a lot, David claims cop

David can be telling the truth but the timing makes me rofl

[Robbnva]

seriously, why are we still debating this, we have 2 out cop claims now and a VT who was so close to being lynched, let's lynch frank and move the fuck on. We will learn a ton when he is gone, all we are doing is giving mafia more info about who is what. 2 fucking cop claims(although both really could be lying but they could not)

frank has even been scummy.

notice he quoted the part where David claimed cop, but TOTALLY ignored the part where he has been accused of fake claiming roles in previous games.

Frank is either scum or seriously one of the worst mafia players I have seen, and trust me I have seen bad ones.

there is no need to move off of frank, we will deal with these other people day 2

[Robbnva]

seriously, why are we still debating this, we have 2 out cop claims now and a VT who was so close to being lynched, let's lynch frank and move the fuck on. We will learn a ton when he is gone, all we are doing is giving mafia more info about who is what. 2 fucking cop claims(although both really could be lying but they could not)

frank has been acting scummy.

notice he quoted the part where David claimed cop, but TOTALLY ignored the part where David has been accused of fake claiming roles in previous games.

Frank is either scum or seriously one of the worst mafia players I have seen, and trust me I have seen bad ones.

there is no need to move off of frank, we will deal with these other people day 2

fixed my original post for errors I found

[Robbnva]

If I were like some players here, I would be like, "oh, you want to stop talking about it, do yah? Well I'm gonna keep talking about it, 'cause I think maybe Frank v. Me is TvT, and you're the scum here"
That's how frustrating it is when I try to say, "Let's stop talking about this" and people say stuff like the above.

dude the unwritten rule in mafia is when you have a claimed PR on day 1, the next person you lynch if they are not scum and are a VT, you have to lynch them

some people on this site operate on the 100% lynch VT claim all the time, I don't believe that but I do believe that with what has gone on today, talking is not helping town.

The people you need to be concerned about right now are the people waffling on frank, those who are "not sure" he is scum

tbh If he turns up town, yeah i will be sad but we can move on and get some investigations.

and just so yo know this is how I REALLY FEEL, regardless if I am mafia or town in this game, and if you don't believe me I would not have posted this

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 1#p2473531

so no bullshit, straight up, the right play here is lynch frank.

this is a large game, losing 1 vanilla townie is not going to lose us the game.

[Robbnva]

Would it help if I admitted I breadcrumbed doctor?

u claimed VT and now you want to change it to DR

you call me scummy?

[Robbnva]

so you're pushing a mislynch?
scummy.

day 1, 2 cops outed, lynching a VT is not a mislynch in my book, it is smart play, get out before you out anymore PRs

why don't you people get that?

you want to lynch everyone?

get the RB to claim, the redirector, the watcher, tracker, etc until we finally get scum?

gtfo

[Robbnva]

also I love how I get accused of being scum or whatever cause I want to D1 lynch a VT instead of outing more PRs, when there is a god damn topic already on the subject that started more than a week ago.

clearly this has come up in other games and I am not the only one suggesting it.

ok I am off to bed now, I should have been in bed over an hour ago.

[Robbnva]

also I love how I get accused of being scum or whatever cause I want to D1 lynch a VT instead of outing more PRs, when there is a god damn topic already on the subject that started more than a week ago.

clearly this has come up in other games and I am not the only one suggesting it.

ok I am off to bed now, I should have been in bed over an hour ago.

When has this happened?

to many pages to go back, but I know orochi or whatever voted for me and sort of defended frank, he also posted 3 times this entire day phase

[Robbnva]

step 1: point out the breadcrumb to us
step 2: explain the reasoning behind your claim and then claimchange
step 3: stick your head in a gas oven in the name of improving humanity

seriously. Grrr.

I beleive we already have a lynch, if he was doc, I think he should be banned from playing on this site <slight sarcasm>

[Robbnva]

Now let's see the flip

[Robbnva]

the only thing I see about nham is he kept voting for hip hop, bunny, and wraith and he doesn't vote for frank once, but he wasn't online I think when the frank bandwgaon formed.

I think the first people we need to look at are the people who avoided the frank bandwagon, in my mind it is those people who have a better chance of being mafia.

I know usually when I am mafia I don't want to vote on the town wagon, but I will make sure I vote on a mafia wagon.

now this may seem odd but I actually suspect orochi, even if he did vote for me that isn't why I suspect him

1. he only posts 3 times and 1 is a confirm post
2. he avoids a frank bandwagon, and he tries to throw other names out there to distract people from frank
3. he criticizes another player for lack of posting, but the game has been open for 6 days when he posts only is 3rd post
4. his biggest and most telling tell, he is getting "null" vibes from all the people he just names (me being one of the ones he named) and he is getting "pro town" vibes on 3 or 4people but refuses to name him, why on earth would he not name those people unless those people he is protecting.

right now I got nothing else so

Vote orochi

[Robbnva]

@X

I don't think mafia would be dumb enough to bus all of their partners, so those names he throw out there are probably not his partners

[Robbnva]

Anyone who was cop would have targeted DavidPaker who claimed he was the cop to in a try to lynch Dana.
We have to believe in Dana claim, which is most likely true since I don't see anyone else countering it.

if I was a cop, and it was any other player, yeah I would probably investigate the person claiming my role

BUT right before DP claimed it was posted he fake claims often even when he is town, plus later he changed to say he breadcrummed Doc

it is that point that clearly he isn't mafia and he is VI instead

now Dana not realizing that makes him either a stupid cop or not a cop at all. Cause what easier way to keep your cop story alive than to claim you investigated the dead guy.

Now I'm not ready to lynch Dana just yet cause he could just be a stupid cop.

[Robbnva]

@wicked, cause I can't quote your WOT on my iPhone

my case for that guy isn't that bad actually, some people when they are mafia lurk and avoid day 1 wagons

just cause somebody posts a little or a lot doesn't really matter, it's the content of their posts and my read, it is scummy. And I have seen mafia do almost the same thing in games before so I'm not going to rule him out as a suspect

now when I get on a pc, I'll have to read up on today's posts, way too much to read on my phone

[Robbnva]

@wicked: You probably remembereed wrong, but I don't really care. If you are so sure that I am scum then lynch me. I dare you.

Now you know this isn't the best way to turn a wagon around

[Robbnva]

So, any reason I still haven't received suggestions for tonight's investigation? And I don't want anyone to give just one suggestion, because scum would know who I was going to pick that way.

Does cop usually ask before they investigate? I never heard that before

I usually investigate the people I find scummy or who others have found scummy in the thread

[Robbnva]

Sorry to hear about a break in X, hope all is ok

@mod, can we get a vote count ?

@everyone else, this weekend and week have been crazy, haven't had much CPU time between school and kids sports

I promise I'll get caught up today or tomorrow

can someone just give me the reason so many people going after wraith? I feel I have missed something

[Robbnva]

Well he is inactive so

unvote

[Robbnva]

Meh at Reaper Charlie

[Robbnva]

Dana was scum in this one

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=13889

[Robbnva]

ok reading back and seeing the way Wraith has handled him being voted, this is not how I personally act if I was a townie being wrongly lynched, I can't even imagine any townie would act this way if they were being lynched, I would try to do a better job of convincing people instead of "ALL ABOARD THE MISLYNCH TRAIN" :rolleyes:

Vote Wraith[/b[

[Robbnva]

bold fail

Vote wraith

[Robbnva]

@Rob - Scratch what I said before, you are, then hip-hop

and what exactly about me do you find suspicious? I totally believe my reason for voting wraith is a valid one, more so than some of the other votes on him or on others

[Robbnva]

@wicked, in my experience when a bandwagon is formed on a townie, the next day people start looking at who was on that bandwagon, what better way to avoid suspicion than to stay clear of it all together

Mafia wants to do multiple things.

1. Avoid suspicion at all costs
2. Stay active in scum hunting to blend in
3. Not be anywhere near a quick lynch

as for me being suspected as scum, meh - happens every game I have ever played so I'm used to it.
But the fact you have a strong town read on Wraith is quite funny, you are either naieve as hell or just have an off day on your scumdar

[Robbnva]

dana, please give examples where I give you the impression that I'm willing to vote anybody but Wraith.
Robbnva, if you find my town read of Wraith so awkward, then why do you not suspect him at all?

I do suspect him which is why my vote is on him, so now what?

[Robbnva]

I will say going back reading wraith's posts, the one post that really seemed odd was wraith telling the doc(whoever that is) to protect dana

1. I don't think ANYONE actually beleived DP
2. Seemed like a way to ensure the doc was on dana, since DP died it allowed a mafia kill to go through

[Robbnva]

@Robb - One look at your ISO should tell you why I suspect you

way to talk without actually saying anything.

I make a valid reason why I suspect wraith and than you fos me, sounds like a load of crap to me

[Robbnva]

I don't play like everyone else, I don't go THIS PERSON HAS A SLIGHT SUSPICION OF BEEN SCUM SO MY VOTE GO ON HIM."
When I vote, its because I am more then sure that the person I am voting for is mafia, or someone who is harmful for the townie.

going back over reading some things and this stood out at me, than I went and looked at some of bunny's other games, and she/he sure does vote alot in the Super Smash Brothers games, and the reasons given for those votes don't match with this statement. And reading some her other posts it seems like she is trying to buddy up to the town a little bit

[Robbnva]

I'm not asking you to investigate because you're all probably going to lynch. But if you by chance don't lynch me, then by all means, yes investigate me. I'm just saying that wicked is the only sane townie in the game right now and you shouldn't go after him until you find my alignment. Which is town.

I'd be willing to go out on a limb and say if you flip town, wicked is probably mafia. What better way to earn town cred than to support a townie and say he is not scum.

[Robbnva]

How about I go out on a limb and say CA, Mysterio, and maybe Prozac are scum? You're using WIFOM - bad.

And you used WIFOM with frank, your point?
Just cause it looks like someone is WIFOMing, doesn't mean anything really

[Robbnva]

ok going back and reading ConfidAnon's posts, about 80% of them are focused on pushing a lynch on wraith or trying to bring attention towards wraith being scum. he doesn't really focus on anyone else after his obvious bandwagon vote on dana, he doesn't vote frank cause he doesn't think he is scummy, even after he notices frank changing his claim of what he is.

[Robbnva]

Wraith would never have shot DP. His read of DP is so accurate in 635, he is so convinced if there is a cop, that it is dana, that I don't see a scumteam with wraith in it killing DP. Bunny follows wraith. I think I'll leave Bunny on my "Neutral" list.

This totally gave me an odd idea. A Wraith/Dana scumteam. Dana claims cop, DP claims cop, the doc will probably target one of them. Wraith "urged" the doc to protect Dana so that, in case DP was actually a cop, they could hit DP no problem.
Just a thought


Okay, so when I come back, I need to make a case on robbie.

1. the first part, your odd idea, was already posted by me, go check post 830 I believe it was. Glad you come up with an original idea after somebody else already said it

2. you will be wasting your time making a case on me, unless you really are scum.

[Robbnva]

so wait did Xite just day kill Wraith?

[Robbnva]

I am super confused right now, I'm going to have to go back and read what the hell I just missed

[Robbnva]

Daykill looks fake unless it happens at the end f the day with the lynch....which seems unlikely .... otherwise flame would've already put it threw.

yeah very weird, the mod posts "how about now?" after the day kill, what the heck does that mean?

he doesn't even comment on the day kill at all either

[Robbnva]

oh ok

[Robbnva]

I will say going back reading wraith's posts, the one post that really seemed odd was wraith telling the doc(whoever that is) to protect dana

1. I don't think ANYONE actually beleived DP
2. Seemed like a way to ensure the doc was on dana, since DP died it allowed a mafia kill to go through

@ xite, here is what I said, it is very similar to what you said

and feel free to "look into me" I have nothing to hide.

[Robbnva]

Are you serious? It's an extra lynch, basically, and you just wasted it on day 2 on a person that might be town? ::uberfacepalm::

Agreed, wasting a day kill on day 2 based on a hunch is risky

if he flipps town, just going to be bad news for Xite.

unvote

[Robbnva]

Wraith sounds like a good lynch for today. His play has been everything other than pro-town, so he's most likely to be scum than anyone else at this point.

Vote: Wraith

this post by mysterio strikes me as odd.

using phrases like "sounds like a good lynch" amd "most likely to be scum" are slipups I have used in the past when I was mafia, so whenever I see them I am cautious of them

Vote mysterio

[Robbnva]

I don't like robbs last post, but I do like some pressure on mysterio.

unvote, vote mysterio

I can't seem to do anything right

[Robbnva]

I am super sorry I misjudged you Xite, I was going through this game thinking you actually knew your shit and how to play, but clearly I was wrong, cause I am not scum this game so you need to just backup and find somebody else to run up the tree.

I have half the mind to return the favor but I don't OMGUS vote, even if the person deserves it, and this case you do deserve it.

[Robbnva]

I am super sorry I misjudged you Xite, I was going through this game thinking you actually knew your shit and how to play, but clearly I was wrong, cause I am not scum this game so you need to just backup and find somebody else to run up the tree.

I have half the mind to return the favor but I don't OMGUS vote, even if the person deserves it, and this case you do deserve it.

Wow, and you say you're not scum? I lol'd
Anyways, I do know my shit and how to play, way to try to discredit me... all because I'm making a case on you you're going to resort to insulting me? Sad.

You aren't OMGUS voting, but there's still OMGUS all over that post.

1st you say I am scum when you don't even post anything of value to show I am scum.
2nd yeah i am allowed to defend myself, especially against somebody who clearly has a hard time determining who is and isn't scum(you were so sure frank was scum, clearly you were wrong) You are so sure Wraith is scum you use your day kill on him but you don't even know he is scum.

you are playing like a loose cannon and if you are town, you are not doing the rest of us any good. go back and scumhunt some more and find somebody who doesn't have Robb or NVA in their name cause like I said you are barking up the wrong fucking tree

[Robbnva]

Robb is an edit button coming up for you?

no

[Robbnva]

Robbn is a poor player regardless of alignment, and that pings scumdars.

As much as I hate that you said this, sadly this is true about me

and @xite, you were right my post really wasn't about defending myself per-se cause you haven't provided anything of value against me.

I think it is funny that I use my own experiences in games and turn them into reasons why I think that person is scummy, yet that looks scummy. That doesn't make sense.

my reason for voting mysterio is a valid one. when mafia is pretending to be town, IN MY EXPERIENCES, they have used words like "seems" or "hope" and things like that. Never posting any actualy reasons as to why somebody is scummy, but my votes I post reasons why I think they are scummy and that is scummy?

my style of play is I basically say what is on my mind and if I see something I think is scummy, I put it down and try and get the person to defend themselves. Townies get scared of me cause I call them out sometimes and mafia wants me dead for the same reason. This game is about getting people to talk and if you see somebody posting something you see scummy, the point is to get them to explain their reasoning.

if that is scummy play, than I will never change and I will be scummy forever, but how else are you supposed to scumhunt if you don't call people out on their scummy behaviors

[Robbnva]

Robbnva, have you ever played as scum before? If so, can you link me to a game where you were scum?

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 11&t=14759

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 23&t=15042

[Robbnva]

@wicked

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... =3&t=14490
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 11&t=14752
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... =1&t=14983

[Robbnva]

So, uh, fill me in, because I can't find this anywhere. Why is Wraith not being daykilled instead of lynched? I thought we agreed we had to lynch someone else because of the daykill.

he claims it happens towards the end of the lynch, which makes no sense cause he has now started voting for wraith again, why lynch him if he is going to die anyway.

[Robbnva]

Post 58: Robbnva decides Xite is no longer a good scumhunter because Xite suspects Robbnva. Not liking that response at all.

you misunderstand, not cause he suspects me but because he is so sure on his reads without anything to validate them. Accusing me without any reason and daykilling wraith(although now it looks fake) wraith with again no intel if he really is scum or not.

A smart player would not be so reckless.

[Robbnva]

EBWOP: Robbnva, you have also not responded to the points I brought up against you.

oh you wanted me to respond to them?

I will get around to it, busy right now

[Robbnva]

Robbnva:

Post 4: Robbnva states that he doesn't think Furcolow is mafia, because he'd expect him to lay low as mafia. -

This is typically how I feel mafia plays on day 1

Post 5: Robbnva suddenly changes his mind about Furcolow and says he isn't looking too good.

I believe you mean my post 6, but I read back and found frank was posting very scummy, my 1st post was more based on how I feel mafia plays, my post 6 was more how I felt after reading

Post 9: Robbnva votes for Furcolow for thinking about lynching dana, the claimed cop. The flip flop seems a bit wierd. He voted Furcolow for single handedly trying to get the claimed cop lynch, yet previously stated that he would expect Furcolow as mafia to lay low.

Yeah I still think mafia typically should lay low day 1, but everyone plays differently, me thinking frank should be voted cause he wants to lynch the claim cop is scummy to you really?

Post 10: Robbnva expresses a strong certainty that Furcolow is scum. He says that the way Xite breaks down scum tells is amazing. Firstly he is buddying to Xite in this post. Secondly, he is making the flip flop look worse.

reading frank's posts and the way he acts, he just keeps digging himself into a hole. I canalso see where it looks like I am buddying Xite, but regardless of what everyone turns out to be in this game, that comment was generally how I felt as a person who plays mafia, the way he was pointing out scum tells seemed logical to me.

Post 14: Robbnva says that Furcolow makes a good lynch because he is just a townie with no powers. There's no way he could know this if he was town.

of course there is no way to know that but day 1 when you have somebody claiming they are vanilla, you lynch him cause it is a safe lynch to end the day. ESPECIALLY after we have already outed a power role. for an unbiased look at how I feel on the subject read this http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 1#p2473531

Post 15: After Xite points out the slip in Robbnva's post 14, Robbnva says

Would I rather nail scum

, of course but at what cost? run somebody else up to be lynched and pray he is not the doctor? no thanks.

Which strongly implies that he thinks Furcolow is going to flip town despite strongly suspecting him. Specifically, the bolded implies he expected his suspect to flip town.

I am not changing my mind on lynching frank cause he has claimed nilla townie, I am posting under the assumption that his claim is true. If it is true it is the safest lynch after outing cop, if his claim is false than it is a safe lynch cause he is scum. Win/Win in my book. I am sorry that people are so damn naive that they actually think a townie wanting to lynch a townie on day 1 after outing a cop is scummy. Would you rather run somebody else to L-1 and find out they are the Doc? or something else? NO I would just say we got lucky on the 2nd one and got a nilla towie after outing the cop, end the day and let the power role people do their thing. (i will never EVER change my stance on this, you can look at all of the games I have played on this site and you will see as town or as scum, I have basically said the same thing

Post 28: Robbnva votes Orochi and says he doesn't have anything else to go on. He had previously shown suspicion of Kise and Benmage, so what happened to those suspicions? The vote for Orochi also looks kind of OMGUSy.

i agree the vote looked OMGUSy, but we had nothing to go on and I went back to my stance that mafia probably wants to lay low on day 1 to not out suspicion on themselves, he was one of those people.

Post 38: Robbnva suddenly decides that he suspects Wraith now that the bandwagon has gotten strong. He jumps on. Also, he voted Wraith for his response to the pressure, yet didn't find his response to the votes day 1 to be suspicious at all. I find that hard to believe.

When people typically overreact to being lynched using comments lilke all aboard the mislynch train, this is NEVER going to change people's mind and it seemed awfully scummy in my mind. not sure what else I can say about that, that is how I feel.

Post 46: Robbnva says that he thinks if Wraith is town I'm scum for defending him which seems wierd because before he switched to the Furcolow bandwagon, he was defending Furcolow, who was town. So, he would also be guilty of defending a townie who was getting a lot of attention.

you say wraith you feel isn't scummy yet you never post anything he says as evidence of it, however you are more than willing to find posts from others to find them scummy. IMO, if you can find posts to make someone look scummy, you shoudl be able to find posts that you see would make somebody not scummy and you never really did that. This early when a player is acting suspicious, you need more than a gut feeling to get people to go along with you and reading his posts, I did not see what you saw.

Post 48: This post from Robbnva is full of IIoA. Robbnva states many facts of ConfidAnon, but doesn't give any opinions. A useless post.

no idea what IIoA means but I am staying open minded and looking at others that are possible scum, my case on ConAd is valid in my mind. He puts dana close to a lynch and he doesn't vote for frank, just seemed weird to me and the fact that he is so intent on pusing a lynch on wraith and not willing to consider any other options.

Post 56: Robbnva votes Mysterio when he sees the tide shifting there from Wraith.

I changed my vote to mysterio off of wraith because I thought that he was going to be day killed and it wasn't worth keeping my vote on somebody who is about to be killed. (now if the daykill was fake, I missed that Xite said it was fake.

Post 57: AtE. "I can't seem to do anything right." What was the point of that comment other than AtE?

sorry i don't know what AtE means but somebody calls says they don't like my post, others have said they don't like my posts, it is sort of a lame attempt at sarcasm or something since it seems that no matter what i do, somebody thinks I am scummy

Post 58: Robbnva decides Xite is no longer a good scumhunter because Xite suspects Robbnva. Not liking that response at all.

already commented on this in my post 65

Also, I'm glad that Robbnva moved his vote off of the Wraith bandwagon, but now that he knows that Wraith wasn't daykilled, why doesn't he move his vote back? Looks a lot like opportunism.

I am still not sure if this day kill is fake, if Xite admitted it was fake than I have missed that post, if it is true and he gets killed right before a lynch occured, what is the point of lynching him if he is going to be day killed and we have to start all over on somebody else

My read:

Neutral/Scum

Now to take a look at the other 5 players that I mentioned. Robbnva, can you link me to a game where you were town?

there you go.

[Robbnva]

I waited until after the VC because that was when I remembered that I hadn't switched my vote? But I'm done with the charade,

if was actually faked.

For the record, though, other than me having a DK I didn't lie about anything I said about DK's (I have seen things like that )

is this a typo? I am taking from the context that I guess

if

should be an

it

and pretty lame to fake a daykill

[Robbnva]

You got discussion but not sure the scum hunting is paying off for you like you hoped

[Robbnva]

The problem I see is X wants wraith dead and he wants people to vote him off but anyone who votes for him gets accused of being opportunistic, band wagoner, or some other scum label

if I switch my vote back to wraith, I'm scum
if I leave it where it is I'm scum
if I vote someone else I'm scum

but in reality whatever I decide to do is based on my own thought process and I will deal with the comments as they come in

right now i'm on my phone so i'm in no hurry to do anything but once I get back to my pc, I'll read up and decide what I want to do.

[Robbnva]

I got nothing from your post, was I supposed to? I know the only thing you have done from your fake day kill is to not trust your opinions anymore and to keep an eye on your posts more cause to me faking a day kill is scummy.

Just a couple of things

what do you consider voting in a scummy way? (btw I wrote that as if it was me but i guarantee you some people are probably thinking about this themselves.)
you really don't think that faking a day kill is scummy?
I would not make jokes about NK buddies, not funny and very suspicious
cop even agrees what you did was stupid and accomplished nothing.
I have no freaking clue what the hell flinter is even talking about, info out of context really doesn't come across very well

[Robbnva]

It is still my opinion, in fact. Robbnva kind of beat me to the punch. Why did we need to post our suspicions of other people when we already have a lynch candidate for the day. That would only give scum more information. So yeah, what you did was good...for scum.

yeah it basically derailed the lynch and now some people are not sure if they want to go back to it.

[Robbnva]

excuse my ignorance but AtE means?

[Robbnva]

vote wraith

[Robbnva]

JESUS I CANT LINK IT FOR OBVIOUS REASONS BUT WRAITH IS ALWAYS A SUICIDAL TOWNIE!!! THIS IS A TERRIBLE WAGON!!!

ok I found 2 games where he was lynched as town

one where he played similar to this and another one he didn't so saying he is ALWAYS suicidal townie isn't acurate

[Robbnva]

wraith.

your 14th post - is not completely acurate, a lynch of frank can give us information to look at, every lynch will reveal information about people, you just have to be able to find it
15th post - seems like you are trying to direct attention onto others, if I was scum I would be trying to defend the townie who was getting lynched so I can earn town cred, I did it in this game - http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 23&t=15042
your 16th post is actually right, if you were scum with furclow you would not be defending him so much but he turned up town, now if you were scum and you knew he was town I totally believe you would defend him so much. this would give you town cred(or atleast you think it would) - i believe this is where you WIFOM, which you later say WIFOM is scummy
your 24th post - you try to convince people that you defending frank isn't scummy but your reason for why it isn't scummy is weak. Maybe if you post links to where you have defended people like this and they have been town, that may help.
26th post, I don't get the point of what the pokemon picture meant anyway or why you felt the need to point it out - this is just a curiousity question, not related to me thinking you are scum
27 - pointing out you found other people's breadcrumbs who aren't even on the chopping block serves no purpose, especially since nobody noticed it, I never saw it and I still havn't found his breadcrumb.(but I suck at spotting breadcrumbs, in another game someone posted "spoonful of sugar" and it didn't even register to me that was supposed to be the doc breadcumbing)
29th post - OMG you are nostradamous :rolleyes:
33rd post - this seems to be where the wraith/wicked buddying starts
post 35 - still waiting for you to take a chunk of time to go over Xite, I guess that was just a lie?
post 36 - I will agree with you that some scum like to lay low, but not all of them do because that is just as obvious, and in case you haven't noticed on this site there are TONS of replacements because of lack of activity. sometimes nilla townies give up and don't even try. The first game I played in on this site I was a replacement player for a guy who went inactive, he was nilla townie.
post 37 - I don't think WIFOM is always a scum move, but if it is, you yourself used WIFOM in this game so by your own opinion, you would be scum
post 40 - this is the post that struck me the most odd, sounds like protect dana cause us scum are going to kill DP tonight.(that is how I read it anyway, I guess we won't know until we know what you actually are)
post 41 - OMG you are nostradamous again, how would you know that one of them would actually be killed
post 49 - saying you will not defend yourself and i'm tired of being lynched as town, sounds a bit wah poor me

[Robbnva]

Ugh, labor day and work are going to push any content from me back to tomorrow.

I apologize.

you work on labor day?

[Robbnva]

wraith.

27 - pointing out you found other people's breadcrumbs who aren't even on the chopping block serves no purpose, especially since nobody noticed it, I never saw it and I still havn't found his breadcrumb.(but I suck at spotting breadcrumbs, in another game someone posted "spoonful of sugar" and it didn't even register to me that was supposed to be the doc breadcumbing)
post 35 - still waiting for you to take a chunk of time to go over Xite, I guess that was just a lie?

Robbie, while I do see where all of your points come from, why are they scumtells? I found one or two, but that's all.
27) I was breadcrumbing Vanilla Townie, in the same way dana breadcrumbed Cop, it was me trying to say how easy it was to do and the fact that he did AFTER he started getting attention, wraith picked up on it, but obviously thought it was a true breadcrumb
35) He did post a little about me, but it really amounted to herp derp Xite's town.

some I think they are scum tells, some are just null. I use info I have seen in other games, the fact that he went overreacted to people still voting him, was sort of icing on the cake for me. overreactions in games where I play outside of here almost always turn out to be scum

[Robbnva]

<------ is eagerly waiting for Xite's post, I need reading material for my afternoon restroom break

[Robbnva]

Xite, I have ADD, you may need to post bullet points when you are done

[Robbnva]

I'll respond when I get to a PC

[Robbnva]

Just skimming through, never realized that link was written so close, it was something somebody pointed out to me in another game.

I beleive almost every game I have played on this site I have probably said sonething about it, my belief is on day one, especially if you out a power role, but even if you don't

ALWAYS lynch vanilla townie.

I'll never change my view on this ever. Day 1 is to get people posting, see how people react during the entire bandwagon process , and look at voting patterns. Day 1 doesn't become useful until the first mafia dies.

Now look at what I said earlier, mafia typically wants to lay low, one of the responses when we saw that guy was mafia was something along the lines of "I never even suspected him"

typically you are gonna find 1 scum who lays low and 1 who seems uber town and dedicated to finding scum.

The rest are usually a mixed bag

so my top suspects for mafia right now is find somebody super active in scum hunting and odds are one of those "could" be scum

this is how I aproach every game

[Robbnva]

0) Just an annoyance for me... -

Wah baby

1) Just a few points, no attacks, and a bit of throwing spaghetti (I usually just go for lurkers... didn't really go on with this one IIRC, if he does, I will be sure to make a note of it in whichever post that is) -

this was me just posting my initial throughts joining the game, your trying to hard imo

2)

while I agree with you on this, cause his pushes were for you, it just seems like an OMGUS accusation. if somebody else pointed it out it may have had more credibility

but yeah he needs to be kept an eye on but not sure he is scum, you have to remember scum wants to be under the radar as much as possible, and this isn't flying under the radar imo

First part, just discredit it completely. It's just as valid if he say's it, because there's reason behind it. OMGUS is usually without reason. -

technically you can discredit everyone's opinion

Second part, WIFOM -

not WIFOM, me posting my opinions based on my experiences playing mafia

4) You do this thing a lot I've noticed where you go "this is probably how it is, but I could be wrong" this = A LOT of fence-sitting.
Frank could be town, but he might now be, but if he isn't there's a possibility that he's being bussed, but I could be wrong.

again, me posting my own opinions and giving a backround of how people play where I normally play. I need to remember I am not in kansas anymore and the people on here play completely different

5) Doing it again...

you call it fence sitting, I call it pointing out things I personally think are off, you do it all the time why can't I. Hypocrite much?

6) Wow... I don't even want to talk about six. You guys can just read it for yourself. Here ya go -

I just felt like his posts got worse and worse, like scum spiraling out of control

7) Your point #2.... I just don't like it. It's hard to explain why

he accuses me of not posting like a townie should, me asking him his opinion on how a townie should post isn't a logical question to ask? If you were told by someone, you were not posting like a townie, you would not want that person to clarify? I'm seeing a trend in your points against me and they all add up to you trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill

This post is full of WIFOM! WHEEEEEEEE

not seeing it really, again this is me posting my opinions, if my opinions seem WIFOM, tfb

8) sheepysheepysheepsheep

so when playing games with you, I am not allowed to have an opinion or am I just not supposed to post them?

9) I actually like this post... except for one part. I get this weird feeling every time he say's "going back and rereading, I..." he has actually said this a few times

I typically re-read a game thread about 40 times by the time the game is actually over, I take what info we know and go back and look at interactions. When mafia turned up dead I went back and read all the interactions between him and others. This site is easier you can isolate each user's posts, where I normally play you can't so I got in the habit of re-reading. "example, one game I was in it was late in the game and we probably had 1 or 2 mafia left, I went back and read day 1 because that day we got lucky and nailed mafia. I went back and saw the very 1st post from a person saying. "hey why are we voting this guy, is it random or we have something on him" that triggered in my mind, this guy could be mafia. turns out he was. SO for me re-reading is very key in how I play

10) I'm not sure if this is buddying or what, but I don't like this post.

Just me actually being in awe at the way you were pointing out scum tells, regardless of what we are in this game, those comments were really how I felt at the time.

Also, there's too much wanting townie points in here and the fact that you wanted to lynch what you seemed to know was a vanilla townie just seemed off.
12) I'm not sure if this is an attack or what, but eh...

whenever somebody posts "town is going to lose without me" that is immediately a red flag in my book. Also he called your play (Xite) amateurish or something which I found funny because out of the 2 of you guys, you seemed to know more about how to play than he did.

14) Again, how are you so positive? And if you are then why do you want a townie lynch?

I believe I answered this in Wicked's list of questions, I am not so positive, but this goes back to my stance of lynch all VT claims on day 1. The fact that you people actually think it is better to keep forming bandwagons until you find scum is so hilarious. Mafia claiming Vanilla townie is such an easy out, it is easier than lying and saying you are a cop or something else because you may get a counter claim by someone (btw not all cops are pro town, I just learned that in another game I am playing in offsite, mafia cop are also possible). So if day 1 you get somebody claiming vanilla townie and you are sure the are scum, you play poker and call their bluff. If they were VT, really no big deal cause they have no real role and if they are scum you win that hand

15) You once again look like you're just trying to get town cred.

see my post above

17) Backtracking

inability to edit posts so made a clarification, this is what happens when you look at posts out of context. I was actually responding to a comment you made to me on post 584 where you said "Seems to me you're pretty sure he's a townie"

18) Again with that whole, it could be, but maybe not mentality...

basically I say to you on this one

21) Hmmm... lessee something... That post was made at 10:17 (my time) on August 26th
The post you linked was made at 10:00 (again, my time) on August 26th.... that is not good proof considering you could have posted it specifically because of this game. This is quite scummy indeed.

did not realize that the time was so close but my stance is never going to change no matter what game I am in or what role I have.

22) Dunno why, but I feel like this post should be pointed out...

yeah cause basically calling someone a hypocrite is scummy

23) More cries for towncreds...

just me not waivering on my stance. If you think lynching VT on day 1 is bad, than you don't know theory very well

Totally just thought of something... He keeps insisting that scum will stay under the radar, so what does he do? Gets in the limelight a bit... Interesting, not particularly scummy, just interesting.

boy this sounds more like mafia trying to throw a townie under the buss if I ever saw one, actually your whole case against me could be spun as you being mafia trying to earn cred by scum hunting.

TL;DR
-Throws a lot of spaghetti (to see what sticks) -

posting opinions =/= throwing spaghetti

- Discredits things that have no reason to be discredited -
- Fence-sits on everything -

is fence sitting REALLY a scum tell? more of a null tell imo especially when it is early and nobody really stands out. Day one is all about getting people to slip up and if not, find the safest lynch possible (assuming you don't find scum)

- Sheeping other people's cases and ideas -

yawn

- Speaking like someone is definitely town (nothing is ever certain unless you're scum) -

you realize if a person is town they are allowed to talk like they are town right? I would not expect a town person to talk like they are mafia.

- Backtracking -

you only found 1 example and it was a post you took out of context so this one is a fail also

- Read 21... this is one of my big points. -

So I am automatically scum because I think lynching VT is acceptable risk on day 1? - here is me as VT, and what am I doing in this post - http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 9#p2482469 ZOMG I am saying lynch a VT on day 1 and I am a VT. listen, do you hear it? this is your case going down the fucking drain. You said this is one of your

BIG POINTS

, well it looks like it is back to the drawing board on how I can make robbnva look scummy now

- Seriously trying for towncreds -

And this is all just based on his first 25 posts. I'm actually really busy right now (dinner, dishes, kids to nanny, packing, and a house to clean) so this is the extent on this case... Wraith's will come a little later, also, I decided that I'm going to do 1 post per each of my things I promised.... makes it easier on me, and I think you guys too

Basically your case against me is a load of crap and in my eyes it actually reduces your town cred because nothing that you pointed out is a 100% scum tell, NOTHING.

thanks for playing, better luck next time.

If I did not have a policy against lining up lynches for the next day, yours would be the one I would do, but I tend to wait and see what this day and the night phase brings us before deciding on who to vote.

[Robbnva]

Okay, so everything you used as a way to defend yourself was WIFOM, your opinions, and "no, you're wrong."
Ironically enough, this is a big scumtell as well.

And 21 was one of my big points as in what I said about 21. You were trying to use something you had posted DIRECTLY BEFORE you posted here as your way of defending yourself. That is scummy, no matter how you slice it.

Opinions =/= hey this could be it, but so could this, but I might be wrong, that's what we call sitting on the fence.
The throwing spaghetti part is more along the lines of, well on my site, we lynch lurkers, and things to that effect (because when no one comments on it, you drop it. If you were that apt to do so, you'd push for it.)
Speaking like SOMEONE is definitely town. Not you, but someone else, in this case Frank. Wow. Please learn to read.
I really like "yawn" as a response. That's the best defense ever.

Unvote, Vote: Robbie

You just completely surpassed wraith as scum IMHO

Preview edit: Dammit. And I just changed my vote too

1. hardly any of my stuff is truly WIFOM
2. if my opinion can be discredited so can yours, almost everything you have posted being scummy about me is your opinion, so using your own logic it can be discredited, especially if you are mafia (which I am beginning to think you are)
3. I can easily say you are wrong when you say I am scum, cause YOU ARE WRONG. I am not scum,I am pro-town. This is not my opinion, this is FACT. only way to prove it though is at the end of the game, or when I am lynched, or if I am killed.
4. changing bandwagons this late in a game is scummy, especially since you have no proof or really no substantial evidence I am scum. All your accusations towards me are baseless and biased. You went back with the intent of finding me scum, so you take everything I say and twist it to make it seem like scum. If somebody went back and tried to prove I was town, they could easily take those same words and twist it to show I was town.

It seems like you are trying to our as many townies as you can and this is very suspicious and scummy.

[Robbnva]

Proclaiming I'm pro town is scummy?

[Robbnva]

@ wicked no I am not sure he is 100% scum but you seem to know that he is 100% not scum and there is only a few ways you could know that.

@ Kise - so you got lucky in 1 game and you think you are the designated GF hunter? as charlie brown would say "Good Grief"

@ gorrad - when accused of being scum, yeah town needs to proclaim they are town. I did not proclaim I was town until Xite questioned me and said he was pretty sure I am scum. I am not changing my vote on Wraith until we have something more tangible, the reasons I am voting him is good enough for me at the moment. he is the person who I most think is scum right now.

[Robbnva]

How could it be biased? I don't think I've played with either of them. If I have, it's been months and I don't remember. This is my first game of 2010.

I get the impression you suspect Wraith a lot because of all the attention he's gotten.

@ wicked no I am not sure he is 100% scum but you seem to know that he is 100% not scum and there is only a few ways you could know that.

My point is that there are no scumtells that are 100%. Also, regarding Wraith, experience plays a large part in why I believe him to be town: I have come across/seen many players like him.

but you don't seem to think he has showed any scum tells, you just blindly are saying he is innocent.

if you want to make a case for somebody being town, do it. The only way to stop a bandwagon is with some sort of evidence or some sort of logical rationale as to why we are misreading him as scum.

[Robbnva]

Lol at epic mafia reference

[Robbnva]

And in epic, xite reminds me of the guy who takes charge from the start and makes it to the end and convinces town to hammer town and he wins as mafia

[Robbnva]

@Xite

in your opinion the way I have played this game, have I tried to look town or have I not tried to look town?

(me declaring I am town is not the same as what I am asking)

[Robbnva]

@xite - I am not changing my vote, i still think wraith is scum and nobody is going to go with me to lynch you so wasted effort. I'll wait and see how whoever we lynch today flipps and what happens at night.

[Robbnva]

@xite - I am not changing my vote, i still think wraith is scum and nobody is going to go with me to lynch you so wasted effort. I'll wait and see how whoever we lynch today flipps and what happens at night.

Okay, I just want to make sure everyone know that you're OMGUSing me, unless you have reasons that aren't I became a terrible player when I started voting you

i'm not omgusing you, unless defending myself is OMGUSing

[Robbnva]

EBWOP- Voting should be Attacking

not atatcking, what you are doing to me is attacking.

putting together multiple wall of text trying to convince everyone somebody is scum is attacking

spending all your effort to get wraith lynched and changing your mind seems like backpeddling or something, not sure what fits but that is not pro-town.

[Robbnva]

I'm liking a Mysterio wagon less and less.

What based on a terrible post?
Or is it because he agrees with you?
Explain plox

Because he at least LOOKS like he's trying to scumhunt. I can see his posts far more from noobtown.

Wraith's posts don't even have internal consistency. He's tired of being lynched as town, so he tells the town to lynch him repeatedly? The hell?

1. looking like he is trying to scum hunt =/= scum hunting
2. I agree with this

[Robbnva]

@Kise - if you are right about him being GF, I'll join your clan

[Robbnva]

Choo choo, all aboard the wagon to Mislynch Station!

@wraith - this post was made with only 4 votes when 11 is needed, you than go and self vote

you don't think that is an overreaction? You don't feel you can convince those 4 to change their votes somehow?

@Xite - I still want to know why all of a sudden Wraith is town in your eyes cause I have not seen anything (unless I missed something)to make me change my mind on him and I'm not sure anyone else has or they would have unvoted.

I understand you think I'm scum, somehow I'll have to prove I'm not but for right now we have more than enough data to analyze after the wraith lynch to focus our search for scum

IMO best option is to keep this bw going OR find somebody else that we can all agree is scum.

[Robbnva]

Oh and @ Xite

can you show me or tell me an example of me "trying" to act town

and than show me somebody who is town and not "trying"

I want to see what your idea of somebody trying and somebody actually being town

also, go look at the newbie game I was just lynched in a week or so ago (I think Xrec is modding it) and just look at my play there since I replaced in and tell me if it is any different than my play here.

[Robbnva]

Overreaction is scummy

"go ahead and lynch me" kind of posts as an attempt to look town.

[Robbnva]

going off what gorrad said, trying to get town points would be the same as trying to look town, which is scummy

[Robbnva]

Gorrad and Robbvna have been using more and more circuitous logic in their case against me, culminating in:

going off what gorrad said, trying to get town points would be the same as trying to look town, which is scummy

According to this, everyone is scum, because scumhunting can be classified as "trying to look town." As well as "trying to get lynched." For all you know I'm a Jester. "As well as defending oneself" because apparently town don't do that.

So you see Xite's flawed logic too

[Robbnva]

I'll shut up if you stop posting a novel every other post

[Robbnva]

@flinter: I think I'll take you up on that. I have homework tonight but if I find the time tonight or tomorrow I'll elaborate on Mysterio's last few posts and put up a WoT on Robbvna.

I really can't wait to see what you have to say <insert sarcasm here>

[Robbnva]

I have add and no impulse control, I post what's on my mind

not sure what you are hinting at with mr thinking before I post but the logic behind my posts make sense to me

[Robbnva]

Isn't it possible that we interpret people's logic differently?

Like the wraith comment about the mislych train and all of those posts TO ME seems like he is doing it hoping to get people to change their mind, you think all of a sudden is a power role or something

I tend to be skeptical cause I've been burned before. 1 game on another site I had info I was sure he was maf, he convinced everyone but me that he was doc. He won the game and he was GF

[Robbnva]

Oh you don't have to check it was when this wagon started to fall apart but it is more due to not having a good reason to unvote, I still suspect him as scum

I have others I suspect but not enough to change my vote just yet

[Robbnva]

how do you differentiate between a SSP who follows leads vs an actual confused townie following a lead? (there are times when both do apply)

and early on(day 1 and 2) how do you tell the difference?

[Robbnva]

and I have just agreed with gorrad on a few posts he made today, this =/= buddying

[Robbnva]

ok I decided to look back at the mafia kill, he said his top votes for scum were wraith, hiphop, and bunny. so I start with Hiphop

#1 - vote no explanation, we all suspect wraith as scum (well some have changed their mind) so this could be a bus vote to look like a joke (one of the points I made earlier scum like to do sometimes)
#6 - I want a bandwagon but not against me, let's both find somebody we can bandwagon together(this is basically what he is saying)
#7 - 1st part irelevant, 2nd part - of course him dying doesn't help his win condition 3rd part - throwing in he can help town win and asks Kise if he is scum - 2 and 3 both seem sketchy to me
#8 - it isn't odd for someone to not have an opinion in 8 pages, especially if the first couple is confirm/rvs posts. 2nd part I sort of agree with his point, but everyone thinks I am scummy for it so that makes him equally scummy
#9 - responds to Xite about him bussing dana by saying, well dana needs to be scum for this to be true.
#10 - just a weird post, not sure what to think
#11 - bunch of topics covered, kind of muddied for me personally to get a feel. the unvote of cop seems right and also throwing in info of another game but doesn't post a link to see if what he said is actually true
#12 - seems to be trying to get town cred by telling frank lynching a claimed cop is bad day 1(like it isn't obvious already)
#13 - changes UA's post from scum wants to kill claimed to cop to scum wants to lynch claimed cop(scum would rather kill a claimed cop instead of lynching cause it is less obvious who dun it) but than he says he agrees with the corrected post. *** this one strikes me as very scummy***
#15 - the quote from Poorchaz is very odd cause i don't see hip hop being useful at all
#17 - did hip hop in a round about way admit he is bussing is partner? 2nd part dana says hiphop is posting better and hiphop calls him a liar (cause he really hasn't) 3rd part, he seems to be shocked that anyone could get a town read off him, like hiphop is trying to look scummy
#18 - just weird in general, features the last post from Orochi
#19 - says wraith is not the lynch, he has someone else in mind and will gather info, but in post 21 he votes wraith without posting the info he was going to drum up
#23 - with his vote still on wrait, he posts his top scummy people and wraith isn't on it, he than unvotes wraith. he seems to buddy up to Xite a tad and later he asks if someone is anti-town does that make them scum(umm yeah it does)

I think all of this is scummy but I am going to sleep on it, I may be changing my vote in the morning.

good night

[Robbnva]

#13 - changes UA's post from scum wants to kill claimed to cop to scum wants to lynch claimed cop(scum would rather kill a claimed cop instead of lynching cause it is less obvious who dun it) but than he says he agrees with the corrected post. *** this one strikes me as very scummy***

This doesn't even make any sense. How does agreeing with the corrected post after he corrected it look scummy? He's the one who made the correction. (regardless of ninja)

ok I misred the correction, my bad

[Robbnva]

yeah so I suck at ISO, I have never been able to do this cause on my other site you can't isolate posts by people, I'm still learning.

[Robbnva]

ok my daughter is finally back to sleep, which means I can go back to sleep

l8r

[Robbnva]

I'm voting for wraith cause I have not seen any reason not to. I voted cause I thought his actions and words were scummy and have not seen any proof that he isn't scum or a convincing argument from anyone

I'm not pushing a wagon cause I'm not telling people or strong arming people to vote wraith

[Robbnva]

PS: I'm activity checking tonight. At that point I'll decide on a deadline. If there is anyone specific you think could use a prod, speak now.

Can you prod nham, I'd like to ask him a few questions

(for the dim witted that was a joke)

[Robbnva]

Posting fluff
posting fluff



I don't need mommy telling me how to play or what I should or should not post.

[Robbnva]

And singer during the day I'm limited to my iPhone so I can't post very much. Plus that was a perfect time for a joke

[Robbnva]

dana: I seem to recall that you are already workign on the assumption that Wraith is scum. Does that mean that you think Xite is bussing?

WAS
Xite was bussing Wraith, imo. He's (she's?) not voting him anymore. It's not 100%, but it's more likely not, and as likely as anything can be at this point.

at first I wasn't so sure but I keep reading back and it sure looks that way.

[Robbnva]

"This is scummy because I was called scummy for agreeing with it" is rather odd though. Do you still agree with it? Do

you

think this post is scummy in spite of other calling you out for agreeing with it?

I still want this question answerd Robb

I don't understand your question, what exactly are you referring to

[Robbnva]

#8 - 2nd part I sort of agree with his point, but everyone thinks I am scummy for it so that makes him equally scummy

He says he just wants to lynch somebody and get it over with. most people think it is scummy thing to do on Day 1, when in reality it isn't very scummy to do.

[Robbnva]

Dana, if you're really the cop, investigate me tonight. Now that people are actually realizing that my wagon is bogus, and that I'm being given a chance to post freely without everyone jumping on me for being scum, I might just be able to live today.

so you must be the Godfather if you are asking the cop to investigate you

[Robbnva]

Wow, amazing. My two WoTs were COMPLETELY ignored. Especially by my primary suspects and wagoneers.

@dana: If Xite was my scumpartner and bussing me then laying off all of a sudden was the stupidest decision, ever. My bus was in the bag, Xite's major town cred was assured...Oh wait. I'm town, Xite's town, and you're being an idiot. Open your eyes, read my damn WoTs, and tell me what you think.

I ignore your WOTs cause I don't care what you have to say about me.

I do have 1 question, what is wrong with a pro-town person thinking that a person is scummy if they try to make a huge case to show everyone that he is scum, when he actually isn't

I know what i am and if somebody tries to convince everyone I am something I am not, of course that person gets top of my FOS list.

[Robbnva]

@xite - I am not pushing a wagon cause pushing wagons are scummy. I post my vote and I am keeping it there, I thought about changing my vote but when I realized that the biggest point I had against hip-hop was based on a comment that was later corrected to make more sense, that vote was worthless.

I am not joining bandwagons just to join them. The only time I took my vote of wraith is when you ran your scummy gambit and once I learned it was fake I went back. That is not scummy that is sticking with my convictions.

where you seem to have bussed your partner and now trying to find somebody else to throw under the bus.

the fact that try and twist my words is funny because you basically said that I said i will join any wagon, which just isn't true.

IMO pushing others to vote for someone (which you have done almost all game) is more scummier than voting for somebody and not waivering on it (which you have waiverd on wraith)

[Robbnva]

Mysterio

(First half is copy-paste because I'm lazy)

In his third post, Mysterio makes a terrible, seemingly random vote against JDodge for scumhunting.

In his fifth, he puts a vote on the growing dana wagon for "failing to prove Furc is scum." This is just him grabbing at a reason to slip onto the wagon. Someone "failing to make a case against someone" is not worth a vote alone. He also claims that dana's reply was worthless, even though the reply referred him to dana's reasons for voting Furc.

He goes on to make several posts defending his flimsy reason for wagoning.

In his Post 11 he votes Frank for tunneling the claimed cop. Let's keep in mind that CA also stated Frank was scummy for tunneling the claimed cop (and later claimed that such insistence was a towntell) but didn't vote for him. Scum trying to keep their options open.

His later posts on Day 1 are him defending Prozac, who is another player that has been jumping around bandwagons all game.

In his Post 17, first one for Day 2, he immeidately jumps on the closest, most popular wagon, me, for "anti-town actions" that he fails to explain. Let's go back a day and remember that he originally voted dana for "failing to explain" his own reasons for suspecting Furcolow. Contradictions, opportunistic voting. Similar arguments to CA, defending Prozac. In his latest post he states how he suspected me in Post 444, but in that post he fails to state why he finds me suspicious. He has never stated why he finds me suspicious and is wagoning based on the cases of his scumbuddies.

In his Post 19, he continues to push my lynch even after I was "daykilled" by Xite. At that point most people (including myself) believed the daykill was genuine. Evidence of Mysterio tunneling the easy target without even considering any other options. Here's a meta-insert from me: Most scum I've seen, especially SSPs, typically tunnel one target at a time, only switching off when the wagon on the target is falling apart or an easier target appears. I've found it rather rare to have scum that do their fake scumhunting on multiple targets, probably because that can get rather risky when you have to fabricate evidence.

I'm starting to wonder why he believes there is "NO" chance of a flinter lynch. He uses wicked's vote on flinter against him as a "throw-away vote." To me, this is scum fabricating flimsy evidence against an obviously townie player.

In his post 25 he suggests that scum derailed my wagon. This is highly unlikely. For one, the wagon is weaker, but it's still strong enough to still carry the day. Secondly, if I was scum, it would be incredibly stupid for my supposed scumbuddies to bail me out at that point. A bus on me would have made the votecount analysis cloudy, because a poor vote reason among many is good cover. In fact, I would have subtly encouraged a bus on me via my own posting of gallons of WIFOM in an attempt to lay down a smokescreen for my scumbuddies to slip on. I attempted this is Mini 1026 but unfortunately one of my teammates didn't catch on and the wagon derailed onto our DSP which was disastrous.

In Posts 26 and 27 he pushes the idea of a Wraith/Flinter scumteam. These are the opening moves of setting up the next mislynch. He is confident that I am scum. What I can't understand, though, is that he knows I'm town, so when I flip town, wouldn't that put a big wrench in your plans. Here's a thought: Mysterio knows he's a dead man. If I'm lynched, I flip town and he dies Day 3. He's trying for one final effort to push my wagon over the edge, taking at least one town down with him. Let's also consider that only 5 or so (of his) posts ago, he was strongly convinced of flinter's towniness. There is the possibility that this is scum trying to distance himself from a partner before being lynched.

Also in Post 27, while he entertains the possibility that flinter is scum, he refuses to vote for her. Fencesitting much? And then he goes on to state that I am a scummy distraction and shouldn't be in LyLo even if I was town. Wanting to lynch someone who could possibly be town = scummy.

Like I've said, I'm probably 90% certain that Mysterio is scum. I believe my vote is still on CA, so:

Unvote Vote: Mysterio

I already said earlier I thought mysterio could be scum, I even voted him when Xite ran his scummy gambit, but the fact that you are pushing Mysterio now makes want to look into Mysterio some more cause if you are scummy which I think you are, you pushing mysterio now could be just an attempt to get the bandwagon off of you.

The fact that you even admitted you played up the overexageration to people voting you so they will actually unvote me is really the iciing on the cake, it was a gambit you ran and has not worked like you thought it would. (and than the cherry on top was telling the cop to investigate you, I have done this all the time when I was scum, especially when I was the GF. It is an attempt to make the cop think you really are innocent and than they won't investigate you. I know this cause every time I have used that the cop never investigated me the next night so I am not buying this either.)

as for your WOT on me, I am not even going to waste my time responding to yet another one on me. I have responded to 2 and anything you have to say about me is discredited because like Xite said, we are allowed to discredit people's opinions so I discredit the opinions of scum.

[Robbnva]

Right now my list of Scum are Wraith and Xite. I still think Mysterio is scum but the fact that Wraith is trying to attack him it could mean they are possibly different scum groups

[Robbnva]

Lol at me keeping to the backround. I've posted more than half the people playing

and a wraith lynch right now will give us more info. You keep saying you are a mislynch but your overactions support that it isn't

[Robbnva]

I just want to say bunny moving his vote to wraith seemed weird for some reason. Not sure why though.

[Robbnva]

Ok shanba, kise, and Lowell all voted for Poro and none of them gave a good reason

shanba - to explore another avenue
kise - voted cause poro said "did you do any research"
Lowell - to find a wagon that sticks

None of these votes make any sense and none have a real reason for their vote

If they don't agree with the wraith or mysterio wagons they need to do some scum hunting or something cause those votes are lame

[Robbnva]

Lol u beleive what you want but I'm not scum

you need to make sure you know what you ate talking about before makeing bold accusations that are false

[Robbnva]

No it was frank OMGUS voting everyone

a falsely accused townie is allowed to defend himself
Xite says he knows I am 100% scum

that is 100% a lie

[Robbnva]

No it was frank OMGUS voting everyone

a falsely accused townie is allowed to defend himself
Xite says he knows I am 100% scum

that is 100% a lie

No it was because he was self-destructive. You're quickly approaching that point. Nowhere does Xite say "I 100% know you're scum". She does 100% believe you to be scum, however, and that is not something you can refute. Yes, you can defend yourself, but "nuh uh" is not a valid defense. And that's basically what your argument against Xite has become

lol I am not quickly approaching that and I am not self destructing.

Question for everyone playing this game I am going to give you 2 scenarios and you tell me which is scummier

Scenario 1 - Player A posts reason for his vote on player B and never changes his vote

Scenario 2 - Player A pushes hard to lynch Player B and once there are a bunch of votes leaves the bandwagon because all of a sudden for no reason whatso ever, that person is not scummy anymore


Also @UA - in this game all anyone has is their word and the only way somebody can defend themselves is to say Nuh Uh, if I had some other way to prove I am pro town I gladly would but I can't.

I posted valid reasons for my vote on wraith and only waivered when Xite used a scummy gambit tactic to get rid of the wagon he pushed for, when that didn't work he just unvoted all together and has seemed to team up with Xite now.

also Xite is a gril? that explains a lot

[Robbnva]

ok my ISO at Xite

1-10 is basically garbage posts nothing really I would consider serious
11 - Declares Frank, Wraith, and Jdodge as scum and says dana is scum and he points out reasons why but by end of the post changes to Frank, Wraith, Bunny. (clearly she nailed the Frank one )
12 - Adds signger to scum list because she did not like Singer's post, which I personally found nothing wrong with
13 - basically just attacks a bunch of people's posts but doesn't really say anything of value or merit. Some fluff posting in there also. (anytime spaghetti is mentioned, I consider it full cause anyone who posts their own opinions could be accused of that.)
15 - basically says voting to get reactions is scummy(umm no it isn't on day 1) and the rest is just filler
17 - I 100% agree with the entire post
18 - says she likes the idea of tracker tracking dana but than clouds the post with reason why they should probably not want to do it. tracking dana would have been a good idea if we have one and only come out if dana goes nowhere or visits a person who dies.
21 - only useful info in there is wraith is 100% scumbuddy
22 - oooh look at me I know so much about mafia and you all are so dumb so I am going to explain it to everyone :rolleyes:
23 - Xite, basically Ad Hom means personal attacks on another poster (I think)
24 - Xite basically says he disagrees with Wraith's comment, which actually is a good suggestion by wraith(Hindsight of course, in the moment i am not even sure I saw that)
27 - Xite wants to lynch frank and wraith after wraith suggests he could try and get himself lynched
28 - I love this one, Wraith seems to know frank will flip town and X - says frank will flip scum. seems sort of fake to me
29 - another comment that wraith is a lynch candidate
31 - somehow me commenting about the style of play here is different from where I normally play means I am opening myself to change my opinion if it calls for it (an unprovoked and unwarranted attack that actually makes no god damn sense) Also that seems to put me on her scum radar for whatever reason
32 - more proof that Xite's reads aren't very good
33 - not sure if this qualifies for WIFOM or something but if frank flips scum than the following are probably scum - Flinter, Jdodge, Hiphop, myself, and Wraith. Since frank flipped town, that should mean we are all innocent now, but of course not. Xite wants to throw as many people under the bus as possible. (oh adds a "disclaimer" so she can change her opinion if she has to which when she said it to me she implied it was scummy behavior so that would mean Xite doing it would be scummy too) Also accuseas frank of "throwing spaghetti" but isn't naming out 4 to 6 people and calling them all scum without any real evidence "throwing spaghetti"? Xite if you are going to accuse people of throwing spaghetti, maybe you shoudl stop throwing some yourself.
36 - Says the most popular wagons had valid reasons, but yet Xite never voted for dana even though she just said that wagon had valid reasons.
40 - Xite really just said "there's your proof" and it was a quote of frank voting Xite (so your proof frank is scum is actually you OMGUS cause frank voted you, good to know you like to OMGUS also)
41 - shortly after saying scum will try and post reasons they are town, X posts she doesn't care what people thnk of her, reverse psychology? Oh also said she likes to see people's reactions but earlier in the game said somebody else was scummy for the exact same thing. Damn the contradictions keep coming
81 - starts the new day voting Wraith.

sigh, it's getting late. kind of hard to weed through Xite's ISOs cause she posts a bunch of words that really don't amount to much, yet she accuses others of the same thing. I will try and do more later, but people need to step back and make sure they want Xite leading them cause her reads haven't panned out yet and not sure they ever will.

Dana, you wanted a suggestion on who to investigate? Xite would be the first person I would investigate if I was a cop. She is doing a damn good job of making herself look town, would not suprise me if she was actually mafia. She says people are scum because of things they do and she goes and does the same things.

[Robbnva]

Question for everyone playing this game I am going to give you 2 scenarios and you tell me which is scummier

Scenario 1 - Player A posts reason for his vote on player B and never changes his vote

Scenario 2 - Player A pushes hard to lynch Player B and once there are a bunch of votes leaves the bandwagon because

all of a sudden for no reason whatso ever, that person is not scummy anymore

Player B responded to Player A's gambit in such a way that convinced Player A that Player B wasn't quite as scummy as Player A originally thought

1, most def

Also @UA - in this game all anyone has is their word and the only way somebody can defend themselves is to say Nuh Uh, if I had some other way to prove I am pro town I gladly would but I can't.

You have to convince me, and everyone else who has no idea what your role is that you have a pro-town role. "Nuh uh" does not accomplish this. You have to convince us that you are less scummy than the persons you believe to be scum. "Nuh uh" does not accomplish this.

also Xite is a gril? that explains a lot

I have no idea. Xite seems like a male name, but small Powerpuff Girls av has me lean towards female.

so somebody who has found reasons to think that person is scum and wants them lynched and will not change because he still finds that person scummy, is scummy to you? oh jesus use your brain man. so you think flip flopping is not scummy? And don't change my words, the words you added in to scenario 2 is not accurate

[Robbnva]

Vote: Wraith

You vote without giving a reason?

Also I have a question for you, how do you feel my play here compares to my play in the game you are modding where I got lynched?

I am biased obviously

[Robbnva]

Gonna be V/LA (what does this mean actually) until Thursday

I'll try and check in on my phone if I can

[Robbnva]

okay I was able to get a short internet connection, after the vanilla townie claim(which I am still not so sure of) I decided to look at the other people who had votes on them, specifically Mysterio and Porochaz., I noticed every single vote by Poro had no valid reason for it, even looking at his posts I still did not see anything of value as to why he found people scummy.

Another clue for me was when he was accused of being the Godfather, he did not deny it, he danced around it and asked if he did any research. In my experiences whenever somebody is accused of something, failure to deny first is usually a red flag.

example

Mom: I saw you steal the cookie
kid: are you sure you saw me and not somebody else - a better response is to just DENY it first. "No mom I did not steak the cookie"
Mom: yes it was you

to use it here

Kise: You are Godfather
Poro: did you do research or you talking out your ass - (this is not a denial, this is trying to dig into seeing of Kise actyally has any info that proves he is bad, and this to me is scummy)

so i will let the VT live a litte longer(if that is indeed what he is, and the fact that Xite has now opened up his mind to Hammer wraith if need be should be a red flag to some of you out there)

I don't care what anyone says and if I get lynched or killed because of it I will take it to my grave this comment

Nobody has figured out my claim yet? I've implied like fifty times that I'm just a VT.

Okay, because of this post right here (and the fact that it throws out quite a bit of my theory on him) this is me expressing my intent to hammer if I cannot get a lynch on robbie.

is SCUMMY AS ALL FUCKING HELL.

off to work now.

Vote porochaz

dancing around an accusation instead of denying is classic scummy behavior

[Robbnva]

edit after post - that should say steal the cookie and not steak the cookie

[Robbnva]

you guys can take my posts and say the way I play is scummy, but I can assure you that I am not. I do not even know how I can convince you of it but I am being 100% straight up, I am not scum and I am 100% town.

right now the points I pointed out for porochaz are valid and if wraith is not the lynch I think he is the one that some of you should direct your attention to.

@Xite - you really should not be so focused on one person, I understand you think I am scummy but that doesn't mean you should give up on finding others and you have. and the way you are pushing a lynch on people you shoudl actually have more than just your hunches because those have been proved wrong with Frank

@ everyone you guys need to be open minded and go back and re-read the thread, take notes, and come up with REAL evidence as to why somebody is possibly scum.

Spaghetti throwing and WIFOM are not scum traits.

[Robbnva]

@Xite - you really should not be so focused on one person, I understand you think I am scummy but that doesn't mean you should give up on finding others and you have. and the way you are pushing a lynch on people you shoudl actually have more than just your hunches because those have been proved wrong with Frank

@ everyone you guys need to be open minded and go back and re-read the thread, take notes, and come up with REAL evidence as to why somebody is possibly scum.

Spaghetti throwing and WIFOM are not scum traits.

Oh, I'm plenty focused on others, and I definitely know who I'm going to go after come tomorrow, and probably the next day, but today it's you. Also, I have made some points against my other suspects, but I have done so with a little less... showiness? For some experienced players, I hope you understand why I have done this.

I have PLENTY of real evidence as to why you're scum, and I didn't even get into the meaty part of your posts. And by meaty, I mean posts RIDDEN with scumtells

WIFOM not so much, unless done in excess or practically any time anyone has said "if I was scum, why would I do this"
Spaghetti throwing is RARELY done by a townie because they are confident in their cases, scum do it so that they can become "confident" in their cases by being backed up by the town

I'm still here, not flaking. Not much else to say except flinter's buddying of Wraith is becoming a bit too obvious for no one else to have mentioned it. Wickedest may have been on to something with his vote.

I haven't ISO'd anyone else nor do I intend to until I have more free time. Skimming the last page, Robb is under attack for playing like a VI. Gotta love how this game seems to be chalk full of VI's.

Will fully respond to whatever needs responding to tomorrow.

Hey mystie, I've got a question.
How would you play if you weren't scum?

Hey everyone,

55 pages!

I will read and comment on what sticks out to me (if anyone wants my opinion of something specific, you're going to have to ask).

-AH

Welcome to the game! Don't be offended if I treat you a little... poorly

so when I eventually die and flip town, I hope people will come back to this post and realize you should not be trusted for you reads on scum. If you go and look at other games I have finished on this site (or games I have been lynched from) when I have been town, you will see I basically do the same things I am doing here. What you call "scum tells" is sadly the way I play. My strategy is to I guess as you say it "throw spaghetti" to get people engaged into the game and talk more. People who lurk and don't post much ruin the game, especially when it is late in the game and they have a power role and have not been paying attention.

I HATE lurkers more than anything so yeah, I throw a little spaghetti their way to get them talking.

look I mentioned Mysterio in my post earlier and look who showed up posting, and shockingly he mentions me in his post. The one who has not yet shown up is Poorchaz who I honestly think is the lynch for today.

ad if you were really looking at other people why not go back and look at the comments I made about him and see if they make sense to you?

and @UA - first off the use of WIFOM is such a lame argument because basically people try and defend themselves and they are automatically accused of WIFOM

and spaghetti throwing, I just explained it earlier in the post, this is my style of play. I go after the people I think are suspiciou, I post things they say and call them out on it, in the beginning everyone is basically "spaghetti throwing" When a townie is lynched day one, all the comments made about that person being scum IMO was spaghetti thrown on the wall and it stuck enough to get them lynched.

now I may not know Xite's definition of spaghetti throwing but to me it is making accusations towards people with no real evidence OR pointing out things people say and calling them scum tells.

Xite has done this with frank, wraith, and myself. Frank was town so his spaghetti throwing sucks there, Wraith claims nilla townie which we won't know till he eventually dies, I am making a full 100% declaration that I am town(because I am) so the stuff Xite is throwing my way is spaghetti

so if you think Spaghetti throwing is scum, there are people in this game throwing more than me.

now I am not going after Xite cause right now I don't think he is the play. I think Wraith may be scum but he claimed VT, this is not Day 1 so I am less likely to lynch a VT if there are better candidates available and I believe we have 2 right now (Mysterio and Poorchaz)

I have done plenty of scum hunting this game, my reasoning of why I think people are scum may not be agreed upon by some of you, I have done more to try and scum hunt than some of these other players. if scum hunting and trying to get people to talk more is scummy, again I apologize but that is how I play.

[Robbnva]

First, Poro is probably still town if you flip scum, but nice try.
Second, Really? You're going to say that him not denying a rather silly claim means that he's actually guilty of said claim? Wow.
Third, me expressing my intent to hammer based on the fact that I probably won't get my desired lynch today and him claiming VT ruined part of my reason for clearing him is not scummy as all fucking hell.
Fourth, if you think I'm scum, get me lynched, that's how the game goes, but instead you go after poro (someone that's getting a good amount of attention, no less) ignore mystie (the other person getting attention) and don't vote the person you think is scum. That, sir, is scummy as all hell.
Fifth, just want to clarify that I feel I'll be the NK tonight, especially if everyone's saying "investigate xite, make sure we're not following scum." If you think I'm scum, vote me, make a case on me, and maybe we'll have a good argument going, but don't direct the cop to investigate me so that you know whether or not I'm town, that's just opening you up for bad things. Also, lets try not to do this, k?

1. Faulty logic is faulty - the "if you are this than he is this" has failed many times in almost every game, also I won't flip scum so even more faulty
2. I have seen it time and time again, mafia is accused and they don't deny, they try and discredit the info or deflect away from it. So I'm sticking my MY experiences
3. You should be making new cases or commenting on other bandwagons already formed and not broadcase "oh I'll hammer him if I have to" seems scummy to me
4. This close to deadline it isn't worth starting yet another bandwagon, I think you play scummy but would not suprise me if you are just a VI this game or your reads are just wrong. Also I already voted mysterio after your gambit(scummy) so going to him is no biggie for me either, I feel with that question asking if Kise did any reamsearch (code for do you have proof?) that makes him more suspicious to me
5. So if you are NK can we assume you are scum? (btw I have seen more mafia make that statement than I have seen town)
6. It was not me who told the cop who to investigate, it was singer, I just agreed with her. I don't care who the cop investigates

[Robbnva]

should be if you are NOT NK'd

hate typing on my iPhone

[Robbnva]

@xrec - that game is over now

@wicked - I was reading back some if your posts and you basicalled my theory of how mafia plays "words without saying anything" or something along those lines. I said mafia likes to lay low and will usually avoid a day 1 lynch of a townie.

Now you aren't as bad as others but I would call your contribution to this game low to mid-range, blending in without being overly vocal, and you have basically avoided the bandwagons of Dana(you had voted early on but unvoted when it seemed to be going somewhere), you avoided frank's, you avoided wraith's. But now you vote mysterio cause you think he is more scummy and he has the larger wagon. I wonder what you would have done if there was no deadline in place?

[Robbnva]

Edit after post :should say " basically called "

[Robbnva]

and @UA - first off the use of WIFOM is such a lame argument because basically people try and defend themselves and they are automatically accused of WIFOM

if you think Spaghetti throwing is scum, there are people in this game throwing more than me.

You'll notice I neither accused you of these actions, nor called you scummy in my post. I did ask, if they aren't Scum traits, how should Town utilize them?

I don't think they are a tool to help anyone out, I just think they are things that people say and people focus on them so much.

ok I think I misunderstood what WIFOM and some people in here have also been wrong. I have seen a ton of "if player A is scum than player B is scum" Or If player flips scum than I can't possibly be town cause he was accusing me"

according to the wiki that is not true WIFOM

true WIFOM is during the day player A is accusing player B(the scum) of being scum, at night player B kills player C, leaving player A alive. Player B would say "I am not scum because if I was scum I would have killed player A"

and in that case than yeah that is scum.

but in my original example of the if/than statements, those I don't consider to be WIFOM and I actually consider them to be null because I have seen both town and scum use those before, and people including Xite has used the if/than in this game.

[Robbnva]

End of day one reads:
scum (in order of likeliness):
- porochaz
reactive play, overreacts to dp's claim, hypocritical by pushing bunnylover, I somehow noted 436 as an important iso post (I think it had to do with the reactive play first surfacing then)
- xite
at first this was a gut read (noted him down as "to be iso'd"), sets lynch for next day and as such avoids giving adjusted opinions on flips even though from xite's perspective I cannot see how he could think frank and wraith could be scum together, lame singersinger-dp discussion, endless theorydiscussions
- bunnylover
I wrote down "does not contribute" from early game, and then "fucking 564" if anyone was being opportunistic on the Frank wagon, it was BL, note the subtle use of the newbie card as well (might be incidental, but regardless of that, opportunistic vote)
- robb
577, 507, 435, 478 were post numbers I noted down, "reactive play", "uhh where did you come from" (507)

As noted as "to be iso'd" on my sheet of paper: xite, porochaz and orochi (why orochi? beats me, his one post was odd enough to warrant a reread I guess)

All the others had a lot of "who?" next to their names aside from a few good town reads.


As for Wraith, I'll have to read confidanon's d1 case again to see if it holds any water. But without reading it and without reading D2 I cannot bring myself to lynch wraith.

On to day 2.

I stand by everything I said in my post 435 - my original post was based on him being so out in front, I still stand by the fact that mafia wants to lay low but than when he did not want to believe a cop claim, that changed my mind. also my statement about if he is town he has failed us also is true. he did not play smart and got town to even turn on him.

my post 478 was responding to shanba's post about why nobody commented on his post, so that was me commenting on his post. I still agree with my read there also

if you really find issues with 507 you need to re-examine yourself, there is NEVER a reason to lynch a claimed cop on day 1 and anyone considering it should be treated as scum. I could not EVER imagine where lynching a claimed cop on day 1 is a good idea

my 577 is also acurate and I am not the only one who thinks so. after you out a power role you lynch the claimed VT, ESPECIALLY if he is acting scummy and ESPECIALLY if he wants to lych the claim cop.

I stand by all of my statements and I stand by the fact that I do not think they are scummy

[Robbnva]

I'm not even sure why I listed all those numbers behind your name...

Disregard that 507 comment. And all the other numbered comments about you.

Ok

[Robbnva]

All respond to your wall of crap when I get to a pc but the way wifom is described in the wiki, the way I explained it is the example it gives so the question is do YOU know what wifom is?

From wiki

It is the final four, with two confirmed innocents and two non-confirmed innocents left alive. You are one of the confirmed innocents, and you strongly believe player A to be scum. The other confirmed innocent strongly believes player B to be scum. At night, the proven innocent who believed player B is a scum, is killed.
Who should you vote for?
As scum, should you kill the person accusing you or the person not accusing you?

NONE

of your examples match the wiki.

Ill get to your crap of lies and twists when I get to a computer like I said.

Here is a wifom by your definition (wrong definition)

I am town so YOU must be scum for attacking me

[Robbnva]

for people who are not aware, deadline is this friday - that's 2/3 days time depending on your time zone.

I am beginning to think there is a chance that one of the people that has a bandwagon currently is Xite's scum partner which is why he is trying to dig up dirt on a townie instead of focusing on the task at hand

[Robbnva]

A) Self-meta is rarely useful (and a lot of times ignored). Try a new strategy -

I have played tons of games on another site and nobody here is over there so my self meta is gonna have to be thrown in there when defending my actions (the only one on here that I know plays over there is Papa Zito)

Okay, so all the striked-out words are where you're just plain wrong and need to read.

things are not wrong just cause you say they are.

Definition of Spaghetti Throwing: Where a player will throw out points about what people did but not say if or why it is scummy or townie. Most of the time, these people will do so to a great number of players, if not all of them.

this is how I play, also I don't see how that is scummy. You realize mafia doesn't want to draw attention to themselves right? when you are mafia do you throw spaghetti? no actually when I am mafia I do a better job of fake scum hunting, I want to put together a case that everyone would believe and when it is wrong, others will be like "yeah man, I was so sure he was scum" Look at Nham or whatever his name was, was he out in the open day 1? NO he wasn't, I didn't even remember seeing any of his posts, when I saw he was dead I was like "was he a replacement?"

This is scummy because it's an easy way to sit on the fence about anything. When someone gets attacked based off of those things that the spaghetti-thrower threw out there, the spaghetti-thrower will ride off of that attack, saying that they pointed out the same thing. If he gets attacked for attacking a townie that has flipped, then he will be able to say that, no he did not attack that townie, and will ask people to point out where he did, and they will not be able to.

- I struck this out because it is wrong.
Get it? I even bolded it and made it different colors to make sure that you could see it. -

I see your posts but none of them are really valid scum points. You have not posted anything I have done in this game to prove I am scummy. You think you have but everything you have posted about me is faulty logic on your part.

B) Or he was just finally able to get to this game? IIRC he WAS V/LA. Also, maybe he mentioned you because you're in the spotlight? Yeah, that could be something.

I also posted that I would try and chime in from my phone, which I have been every time I get a break. all of my posts the past 2 days have been from my Iphone. This post I am using the hotel computer

C) If you were really reading the thread, you might see that I did comment on your godfather idea (which I think I said was REALLY stupid)

you say it is stupid is not a valid argument.

The fact is I have busted many mafia for dancing around the accusations.

D) Do... do you

know

what WIFOM is?

do you? because almost everything you have pointed out as WIFOM in this game is not actually WIFOM

Okay, how many games have you played? And please be honest. This is actually an important question.

on the site where I learned to play mafia I have played 45 or so games, I am often accused of being scum just like you are accusing me and most of the time I am not, that is sadly just the way I play. I am often killed early in games because I piss people off by my (using your definition) "spaghetti throwing" One game 6 people visited me night 1 (tracker, cop, role blocker, SK, Mafia 1, and mafia 2) another thing I don't do is lie unless I absolutely have to. Look at this game - (I could have made up a lie to try and save myself but why bother. When I am caught, I am caught. no need to squirm and make up shit)

1. Faulty logic is faulty - the "if you are this than he is this" has failed many times in almost every game, also I won't flip scum so even more faulty
2. I have seen it time and time again, mafia is accused and they don't deny, they try and discredit the info or deflect away from it. So I'm sticking my MY experiences
3. You should be making new cases or commenting on other bandwagons already formed and not broadcase "oh I'll hammer him if I have to" seems scummy to me
4. This close to deadline it isn't worth starting yet another bandwagon, I think you play scummy but would not suprise me if you are just a VI this game or your reads are just wrong. Also I already voted mysterio after your gambit(scummy) so going to him is no biggie for me either, I feel with that question asking if Kise did any reamsearch (code for do you have proof?) that makes him more suspicious to me
5. So if you are NK can we assume you are scum? (btw I have seen more mafia make that statement than I have seen town)
6. It was not me who told the cop who to investigate, it was singer, I just agreed with her. I don't care who the cop investigates

1) Uhm... no? If you look at the way you did things, I have my reasons for thinking those things, and even if you were town, a flip from you would actually help me greatly at this point. not to mention, it has worked a great number of times from when I've seen it

well i will save you the trouble, my flip will be town so go with your thoughts on me being town and that will help you figure things out.

2) And I've seen town react the SAME EXACT WAY to such a ridiculous claim. Hell, I would chuckle a bit and say the same thing.

fair enough, we each have different experiences. I personally have caught at least 2 or 3 mafia by spotting this tactic so for me it works until it is proven otherwise.

3) So, I should be looking anywhere but at you? Lol

you realize the deadline is friday right? can you convince 11 people to vote for me by Friday when all you have are baseless acusations and faulty logic. I know it is faulty because 1. the definition of WIFOM on the wiki I don't believe matches what you say is WIFOM. 2. you have accued me of spaghetti throwing but I have made valid arguments for the people I have voted for. (yeah I changed my mind on frank when I first thought he was town, but am i not allowed to change my mind?)

4) Anything's possible if you try... but wait, you have to convince other people, and scumhunting is just so hard for scum to do isn't it?

I guess scum hunting when a person is scum is kind of hard but you are actually smart, you spend all game throwing out faulty logic but you sound convincing and people actually believe you. You have a way with getting people sucked in, I even did it day one and than it hit me. THIS GUY is earning his town cred. by pointing out scum points that townies made got people sucked in. It didn't really hit me until you pulled that gambit (faking a day kill is so scummy, if you die tonight I would say it was more of a VIG kill than a mafia kill because mafia can't kill themselves . Also the line you used talking about you will probably die tonight is something I have seen mafia say over and over again and I rarely see town say it unless they have already role claimed, and you haven't (I don't want you to so don't twist this and say I am tunneling or something)

5) From your next post, you say you mean aren't, and no, but I was saying not to direct the cop. Also, I was saying that if he wants, then fine, investigate me, but don't make it public, because then bad things will happen.

I added in aren't after my post. I was trying to use some of your faulty logic. You do realize this statement you made is more of a scum tell than a town tell? also I have not directed the cop to do anything, in fact I was the one who said the cop is stupid for asking for help. I hope the cop (s) investigate the people they find the most scummy, if they think you or I are the scummy ones and they investigate one of us, cool. If they investigate somebody else, that is cool too.

6) I was saying that to the whole playerset.

well that wasn't clear in your post and actually by posting that you basically informed everyone including mafa to not do that, why would you do that? why not keep that to yourself and wait until somebody does it and than call them out on it?

Xite, do you have any completed scum games? Can I have a link if so?

Newbie game FTW
Emotional Breakdown
As you can see, I'm a very angry scum player

This is the last thing I am going to direct your way and than I will go about playing the game and stop beating a dead horse which both of us seem to be doing.

1. Do you realize that by faking the day kill on wraith, It looked like you were actually trying to get people off his bandwagon? Also when that didn't work you just unvoted him saying you did not think he was scummy anymore, you don't think that was scummy? You than go after me, a vocal player that some would call me a VI, because I am easier to attack and make look like scum even when they are not(sort of like what you did to frank) ALSO the comment you made about "you will hammer wraith" first what makes you so special you get to be the one to hammer him IF he even gets lynched and second that sounds SO much like mafia giving up on his partner and wants to make sure he gets in a vote to lynch him if he is indeed getting lynched. (this is how I interpreted the whole situation so I would like your explanation based on how I see your actions and no tap dancing around it)

2. I would like you to post 3 TRUE examples of my WIFOM, 3 TRUE examples of me spaghetti throwing, and also I want you to post 3 posts to me of 100% classic scum slips that you think I have made.

3. I would like you to focus on the 3 current bandwagons since we are so close to the deadline, if the next day you want to start a bandwagon on me, that is your prerogative but today the goal is to get a lynch before the deadline and there are 3 people with wagons and 2 solid cases for both of them (more solid than the case you are trying to make on me)

[Robbnva]

I just found this info about Gambit according to the wiki

A Gambit is any action made to further a player's agenda.

While it's most often used by the Mafia

in hopes that the Town won't call their bluff, it's also used by Doctors and SKs to stay alive or further their purpose in the game

just thought everyone shoudl know that gambits according to wiki are more often a scum tactic. this supports my statement about Xite's gambit most likely being scum tactic since it did not help the town at all.

[Robbnva]

every thing you said in the beginning you just responded back with your own opinions, you say things are wrong but don't post VALID explanations why they are wrong, other than "cause I say they are" and you don't post examples of it basically nullifying any argument you may have had

1) Uhm, I don't care? I did what I felt was necessary. What exactly do you want me to say? I've been as transparent as possible if you can't tell. Try to read the game before posting.
2) I might get around to this, but I'm too lazy to care right now considering I made A WHOLE FRICKIN CASE AGAINST YOU.
3) Haha, no. I said who I would vote come deadline, but right now I will be focusing on you, but nice try

1. I read the game, your gambit failed, tbh I am suprised people did not decide to lynch you cause of it. you caused this day to drag on longer than it should, we were close to lynching wraith and now we are approaching deadline
2. such an easy way to say, I don't really want to try and fabricate information, I would rather just make up lies
3. this close to deadline, focusing on my is pointless and is not helping the town, I hope people realize this

[Robbnva]

Decided to look at the "case" made by xite, I went back to first interaction of me being scummy

forgot to write his post number down but said my theory of lynching a claim VT after a power role being outed is scummy. No reason why just is (cause he does this later himself) I have talked to multiple players who agree with this tactic

(his post numbers)

89- declares I'm scummy no reason given(you said yourself voting for no reason is scummy)
93- mentions my posts but no reason why any are scummy, they just are according to you (you said yourself reasons things are scummy have to be given)
100- say you seen the DK in another game but can't find a link(no way to validate so could be a lie)
101- vote me with no reason(no reason to you is scummy)
102- declare I'm scummy with no reason
103- me saying I misjudged you is scummy but don't say why it is scummy(anyone who doesn't agree with you is scummy?)
104- excuse on why no case on me yet. Say I'm nit defending myself(can't defend myself from "you are scummy because I say so")
108- excuse again for no case, said I am selective reading cause I did not read a post you directed me to(but you never actually directed me to a post) and because I did not read this post I am scummy
110- said your fake daykill was not scummy and would help you scum hunt(no reason why it was not scummy & only scum you have chased is me, but you don't even post valid arguments against me)
113- say your going to make a case against me
114- all you tl:dr points and examples posted you say are scummy but don't say why or prove how they are scummy(spaghetti - nit always scummy. Fence - not always scummy. Sheeping- no real example given, one example was not sheeping. Back tracking - no evidence, also changing minds =/= back tracking. Your biggest point for me being scumis saying lynch claim VT on day one after outing a PR is scummy(it isn't, others on this site agree with it also)
117- no real reason I am scum, false accused of WIFOM with no links to it
122- more false accusations of WIFOM, said I implied"town will lose" which I never did
124- self iso (self iso isn't trying to look town? Seems to me it would be, town would not need to explain their reasoning for all their posts)
131- accused of trying to look town, no examples (self iso you did is perfect example of you trying to look town)
134- claim I am omgus you yet I never voted for you
136- you say that I am OMGUS you cause I think you are scum(not true example of OMGUS)
138- you claim wraith is town cause your iso and his meta in other games but don't show examples to the rest of us to convince us to get off his wagon(seems like an attempt to now distance from wraith wagon)
144- you twist my words around on me, say I'm scum but no valid reason still
148- talking about me not pushing a wagon(Pushing a wagon is not always town and not always scummy, both sides do this. The same goes for not pusing a wagon so using that to accuse anyone of being scum is faulty logic. You say I am lining up lynches but in not, I wait til the flips of the dead before planning my lynch. You say I'm not scum hunting but I posted reasons I thought Wraith, Mysterio, and poorchaz is scum and all you are doing is trying to start a band wagon on me yet you have still not provided any evidence against me that is valid. Multiple votes and declaration I am scum without any reason which you did to me early on is a better example of scummy behavior, and you know how I know? You said it yourself in this game that voting with no reason is scummy. You also got off wraith's wagon for no reason which is scummy, and you know how I know? You yourself said it in this game.

So now I have provided a TRUE case against you and posted examples and reasons why they are scummy(even using your own examples) so now I feel this is valid and not OMGUS

vote Xite

I personally think everyone should vote him based on his actions which by his own definition are things scum does

[Robbnva]

@ Xite

you declaring me scum for no reason is just as scummy as voting for no reason.
the post where you said I am scummy because and than listed like 30 of my posts is not valid cause you can't just list posts and say they are scummy but don't explain why each post is scummy
the part about lying about something that doesn't matter, if you lie about something that doesn't matter you are most likely to lie about something that does
101 -

Full description on how your daykill works, Xite, if you don't mind.

It's one shot
I say Kill: XXXX
It doesn't happen until a lynch occurs, and then both of them die.
That's all it does.

Oh shit.
Just remembered that I should probably do this

Unvote, vote: robbie

won't be needing that vote on wraith anymore

I don't see a reason so again you just lied saying you gave one and you didn't

and 102 -

.

Are you serious? It's an extra lynch, basically, and you just wasted it on day 2 on a person that might be town? ::uberfacepalm::

Agreed, wasting a day kill on day 2 based on a hunch is risky

if he flipps town, just going to be bad news for Xite.

unvote

Robbie is still scum too.

My vote stays.

- again no reason so again you just lied

110-113 - excuses are excuses no way to validate them as being true
114 - I meant 116

and everything else I don't care what you say anymore. just the you voting and declaring me scummy with no reason is enough and than throw in the self ISO, fake gambit, and failure to scum hunt on anyone by myself and that scumhunt is casting your opinion to shut down my opinion so not really a serious effort to scum hunt.
i am not changing my vote on you cause I am now 100% confident you are scum and I have pointed out valid reasons

I am also not going to respond to anything else you say to me so don't even waste your time typing. you are not going to change my mind, you are scum for the reasons I posted in my post earlier today and nothing you said in your rebuttle was enough to change my views.

[Robbnva]

Alrighty, well it's time for everyone to be voting for Wraith or Mysterio, no ifs ands or buts. Only thing that could change this is a good old deadline extension, but I don't expect to be given one, considering how much time we've had. Just in case I die tonight, I want to say that Xite is probably scum.

If and but

we got an extension

did you miss it? Xite thinks HE is gonna die tonight

I may change my vote but if I do it will be porochaz, IMO out of the 3 he is most scummy

[Robbnva]

Mysterio, why do you think people think you are scum and what is your reaction to that?

And I know i'm in the minority but I'd much rather NL than mislynch, let the cop(s) investigate more

worse case lynching another claimed VT in wraith would be okay just cause of the deadline(we don't know if wraith is telling the truth about being VT anyway)

the fact Xite tried to kill his bandwagon makes me curious as to why.

[Robbnva]

Robb, and other people, please stop answering points inside the quote. Its extremely difficult to read that way, especially when it keeps going back and forth. Thanks

Rob, first off, the reason you "Dancing around Godfather makes him Godfather" thing is stupid, is because liars don't try to dance around the issue. they completely shut down the issue so that they can leave the topic as soon as possible, for the longer they stay on topic, the more likely they will be found out. Or, since you love analogies so much, if I stick my finger in the cake frosting, and mother asks if I swiped my finger in the cake frosting, my response will be "No, I did not swipe my finger in the cake frosting." If I answered "Are you sure it was me and not my brother?", it will leave the topic up for discussion, allowing mother to reveal that brother isn't home, thus casting more suspicion on me.

Second, yes, a lot of Xite's accusations of you using WIFOM are correct. Particularly your constant use of self-meta from a site that doesn't exist, and the "This is how I play as Town" bits.

Third, the Wiki is a guide, not a rulebook. "This is not how the wiki says this works" is not a valid argument.

Finally, Xite's gambit was a null gambit. It was scummy for derailment, but it also brought too much attention to himself to be a valid scum tactic.

until you vote someone else besides yourself. Keep your opinions of me typing inside the quotes to yourself

it is easier for ME to respond that way, you can't read it or have trouble responding to it, not MY problem

[Robbnva]

I'll clarify, the count for deadline extension is independent of other votes, so you can keep your vote on someone else, just vote for deadline extension separately.

Got it. I'm putting my regular vote back on Wraith.

Vote: Wraith

@Robb, the votes on me are due mostly because of inactivity. A terribly stupid excuse to derail the wagon on Wraith. As a result, we have gotten some fairly scummy reads on the likes of Xite and flinter, and to a lesser extent Shanba. As for UA and bunnylover, the self-voting uselessness of UA and the wishy-washy non-committal play of bunnylover makes them questionable at best.

This post alone is better than anything wraith has said to defend himself so for now I'll give you the benefit if doubt. My vote on Xite won't go anywhere so

vote wraith

no vote for deadline extension

we have enough info to lynch somebody by Friday

Xite is trying to de-rail wraith's wagon for sone reason and the reason he gave of his ISO and meta and afraid of outing an inexperienced PR is just not convincing enough to me.

[Robbnva]

Damn typing on iPhone is really fml

[Robbnva]

Mysterio: I've already laid out in detail why I think most of the case on Wraith is crap and also mentioned in passing (I think only a couple) of the reasons why I think that he is town.

Robb: the deadline extension is mostly for the benefit of the couple of players who have just replaced in and have a 58 page thread to read. That's a lot to gnaw through.

On that note: MME I'd like that you read through this day in its entirety, if possible, rather than cherrypicking stuff. There's a lot to it.

I'm going to find your post about the wraith wagon cause I fell into a trap and I'm finally free so I can focus on the task at hand

gonna tell you it better be a hell of a case cause he sure did not make one for himself, can you link me to the post?

[Robbnva]

Have you tried to delete a wall of text on an iPhone? Not easy to do and the only thing I wanted to comment on was the rest.

[Robbnva]

Have you tried to delete a wall of text on an iPhone? Not easy to do and the only thing I wanted to comment on was that one post. Did not care about the rest.

[Robbnva]

@shanba, unless I missed it somewhere I don't see a detailed laid out case against wraith lynch

I do like some of the comments you made about Xite and very interesting now they are sort of similar to the comments I have been making about his play. Not sure why I never noticed before.

[Robbnva]

I don't agree with extending the deadline. Two players who got replaced aren't going to make the difference in finding scum at this point. All they would do if either confirm what everyone else has been saying all along, or bring in someone different, completely derailing the wagons we have now. While I admit that could be a good thing, I'd rather wait til after this lynch, so the replacements don't interrupt too much of the information we can gain from the lynch at this point. They can use the night phase to catch up. The only reason they would have to worry about not being able to catch up during that time is if they're scum who need time to strategize after having caught up using/wasting our time.

+1

the new guys can just run a quick iso on ther people who have wagons and vote that way, ISO only takes 30 minutes maybe and hour to really go through per person

[Robbnva]

It took me roughly 90 mins to 2 hours to go through page 30 onwards and even then, I was eventually missing out Xites posts.

your not missing much, he speaks without saying anything of value

he claims he makes valid arguments but in the end he just combats opinions with opinions and if you don't agree with his than you are scum.

[Robbnva]

Robbnva...ISOs don't give all the information. ISOs work after they get the general idea of what's going on, and then from there, they can hone in once they realize the context of that particular person's posts. You're basically asking them to place a vote on incomplete information. Way to go.

if you are trying to look at people's words because their words are what makes them scum, you go through their ISO, when you find something you think is off you click on the link to that and read the context surrounding the context.

with a deadline approaching they should not be trying to find a new wagon, they need to look into the current wagons and the fastest way to do that is what I said.

reading back almost 60 pages, with atleast 20 of them the lover's quarrel between xite and frank, xite and warith, and xite and myself They will just be confused even more

[Robbnva]

I already said I am done responding to you, clearly your reading comprehension fails also. I even put it in pretty blue wording so it would stand out.

[Robbnva]

Robb and Mysterio are such incredibly obvious scum at this point. Lynch me, get your trustable views, and then KILL ROBB. KILL MYSTERIO.

Those'll probably be my last words in this game because I'm pretty sure I'll be dead by morning. Peace!

yet you don't post examples of how I am obvioulsy scum. I have made cases on people with actual evidence which is more than I can say for you and Xite

saying somebody is scum like you are doing right now and not giving a reason is SCUMMY

everything I have done in this game I can justify to myself as being pro-town

I can't justify "ALL ABOARD THE MISLYNCH TRAIN" as a pro-town reaction. Overreactions are usually used by scum. You have done other things which I have mentioned and so have other that are equally scummy. Also the fact that Xite pushed for you so hard than tried to de-rail your wagon with a fake day kill and when that didn't work just un-voted you for a super lame ass reason, he is either protecting you or trying to set you up. either way in this situation neither of you look good right now.

I really think the better lynch is Xite but I can't get that wagon started so I am interested to see why he is protecting you

[Robbnva]

1) Then say that, but don't put words in my mouth, because that is scummy. Also, I gave the posts, already went over this.

It was a typo, voting/decarling somebody as scummy with no reason is scummy

2) I did add some explanation in it, just not as much as you would have liked, I guess. Reread it and you might see.
3) That's really WIFOMy you know. Also, it's not true, AND I truly had seen a game where that happened, but again, I can't be bothered to go back through the like 200 games I've read (yeah I have no life ) to find it.
101) I had given some reasons before that, also you were my next choice after Wraith
102) Already gave my reasons means I gave them before that post, so no, I didn't lie, but good try.
113) Would you like a picture of the pregnancy test? How about a copy of the papers to break the lease? How about a picture of my newly cleaned and packed apartment? Will that prove it to you? Or maybe my paycheck stubs? Are you REALLY disputing real life issues? Are you that dumb?
114) I know, wanted to give you a hard time, considering you really didn't address any points in there anyways.
4) Lol, is it that you don't read, or only see what you want to believe? Cuz i'm really not sure which one at this point. Either way, you're scum. Also that last point is useless AtE and go ahead and ignore me, just means I'm right
5) Oh right, those "valid reasons" that I disproved and you're no longer talking to me for.
6) Lul

1. It was basically a typo, voting/accusing with no reason is scummy and yes you have said that in here
2. here is the post you made with all my post numbers

@Robb - One look at your ISO should tell you why I suspect you

way to talk without actually saying anything.

I make a valid reason why I suspect wraith and than you fos me, sounds like a load of crap to me

*sigh*
Specifically ISO #'s 1, 2, 4&6, 7, 10, 14, 15, 19 (i love that "frank has even been scummy" part), 24, 25 (wtf??), 28, 30, 34, just want to make a quick point on 37 - one game =/= meta EVER, 38 (seeing a pattern to his wagoning), 41, 45, remember my point on 37? and, 46.

There ya go.

where are ANY valid reasons in here? in fact where is a single reason? just saying post 1 is scummy is not a reason. you need to say WHY and point to a specific scum tell as to why it is scummy which you fail to do. don't waste your time now cause backtracking isn't gonna help anyone now.

101 - no you never really have a reason
102 - still no you never really gave a reason, the only thing you ever mention as the post i quoted above which is not even close to any sort of valid reason
113 - need some cheese with your wine? I don't care about your personal life, if you have RL issues replace out of the game.
114/should be 116 - giving somebody a hard time no really a good idea in this game. and all the points you made in 116 are just opinions opinions =/= valid reasons for somebody being scummy because you said yourself opinions can be disregarded
4. I have read ALL your posts about me and all your reasons are just your own opinions, and you accuse me of WIFOM for things that are not technically WIFOM
5. yes I have valid reasons and I will say them again, and you have yet to disprove wht they are not Valid reasons (1. voting and accusing me of scum WITHOUT reason. 2. Fake day kill gambit 3. Used Gambit to de-rail a wagon that was close to lynch 4. when derailment did not work you use Wraith iso (which I looked at and we must not be reading the same thing) and his play in other games(meta =/= valid reason cause people can change their meta) you have yet to disprove any of these and you really can't disprove them cause they are true


now if you want me to see anything you have to say, stop these WOTs as it makes it hard for me to look at when on my iphone kthxbainow

[Robbnva]

@Xite let me respond to those posts of mine you pointed out

1. Me giving my initial reads if the game, that's not scummy
2. Wraith's iso on hiphop, hh mentioned wraith 3 times so wraith fos him, to me it looked like an OMGUS reaction - not scummy
4. My opinion - not seeing how scummy
6. This one looks sketchy I'll admit, but I seriously just re-read his ISO and changed my mind on him, sometimes my theory of what mafia does differs, I thought this could be one of those times
7. Not seeing why this is scummy
10. 1. Error in judgement 2. Not scummy
14, 15, 19, 24, 25, 28 (most if not all of these are about lynch VT day 1 after outing cop, this is mafia theory tons of players use and I am one of them and it is not scummy at all)
30, 34, and 38- don't see how these are scummy
41. My own theory is mine, call it flawed but it's not scummy
46. Wicked has been defending wraith and not given any real reason why he thinks wraith is innocent, seems like buddying to me so while my statement might sound scummy, it is how I feel and still feel

now again all you did was say these were your case against me so instead of commenting on each one I will break down the main reasons why I think, you think I am scummy

1. Flip flopped on frank less than 10 minutes apart
2. Providing my own opinions/theories on how I see things and how I think mafia tends to act
3. Wanting to lynch VT on day 1
4. Saying wicked must be scum if wraith is scum

can you agree that these are basically the points you are ultimately trying to say as why those posts were scummy?

If so can you use actual facts and not personal opinion as to why each is scummy

here is why I think they are not so we can compare notes and others have something easier to read to decide on their own

1. This while I agree looks scummy, has been done many times in mafia games by scumm and by town so this is just a null action
2. Providing my own opinions and theories when others do it all the time (including yourself) is null tell not scum tell
3. Lynching VT after a cop claim is using proper mafia theory, the Role most easiest for mafia to claim is VT cause you can't disprove it and nobody can actually counter claim cause they are probably multiple in a large game. Day 1 a lynch of a VT gives you plenty of info to look back during the next day
4. Multiple people including yourself in this game have said if player a flips scum than player b must be or some sort of variation of it so it is a null tell

if there is something I missed please let me know but PLEASE just bullet points on your reasons and not use a wall of text, it's too much on my iPhone and I will stop posting replies inside quotes.

Thank you

[Robbnva]

Well, at least someone hit scum for us.

Vote: Wraith

need to do a reread, but I'm pretty sure this is where my vote goes today

I agree with dana, Xite starts the wraith wagon above and pushes hard for him until his gambit than he abandons and switches to me. Ignore all the bickering beteen him I for a minute and think about just that

WHY would he start a wagon, abandon it and try to start a new wagon against somebody new.

[Robbnva]

Because he obviously changed his mind based on my play.

You're a dead man tomorrow, or Day 4. I guarantee it.

So one of your scum buddies gonna take me out? Cause I won't be lynched

[Robbnva]

If I die it will be because mafia or sk kills me. Vig would be stupid to shoot me and I won't be lynched

[Robbnva]

@xite. That is not a town will lose without me

vig killing a pro town player is stupid

[Robbnva]

Once again Xite your reasons are not valid and purely opinion based

[Robbnva]

@xite. That is not a town will lose without me

vig killing a pro town player is stupid

but nothing about you is pro-town at this point

there is nothing anti town about me

[Robbnva]

Once again Xite your reasons are not valid and purely opinion based

I thought you were done responding to me?
Also, they're not opinion based, they're tell based, some based off of opinions, yes, but others off of pure information. Get you facts straight, then accuse me of things

My facts on you are not opinion , they are true scum traits

2 times you say I'm scummy for no reason- scum trait
fake day kill - scum trait
jump off your own wagon when it gets too big- scum trait
cloud thread with usless opinions about somebody who doesn't have a single vote on them instead of making cases for or against the people who have wagons - scum trait

[Robbnva]

Unvote Vote: Mysterio

I have no idea what kind of defense Robb is pulling. He is attempting to discredit Xite for going after a "pro-town" player when there is very little in his favor that makes him town.

my facts on Xite are legit facts, you of course side with him no surprise there.

I don't need to defend anything cause I have done nothing wrong except call Xite out as scum.

[Robbnva]

]
my facts on Xite are legit facts, you of course side with him no surprise there.

I don't need to defend anything cause

I have done nothing

wrong

except call Xite out as scum.

Bolded + Underlined.

Anyways, I have pointed out what you have done wrong, and now you are flailing like crazy, you are so obvscum it hurts that people don't see it.

but I am not flailing, your case on me is based on opinion

my case on you is based on FACT of what scum does

again, I am not scum when I eventually die I will flip town and if you are alive you will be sitting there with egg on your face and feel dumb as shit and people will realize that you are scum. Hopefully you get lynched soon because YOU are so obvscum it hurts

[Robbnva]

and that full case on me I already broke it down and it all came down basically opinions.

[Robbnva]

i'm done with this thread until day 3. these rest of these people need to decide on who they are lynching. right now wraith is the no-brainer cause Xite is trying so hard to de-rail his bandwagon.

[Robbnva]

FYI to those playing at home, Wraith is L-2 so we can end this day today.

[Robbnva]

sigh, guess we will just get wraith and xite another day

Vote mysterio

[Robbnva]

Yeah I agree wraith is the lynch for this day

[/b]vote wraith[/b]

I apologize to Xite, was pretty sure X was a BG

[Robbnva]

Yeah I agree wraith is the lynch for this day

[/b]vote wraith[/b]

I apologize to Xite, was pretty sure X was a BG

Damn bold fail

vote wraith

[Robbnva]

So I have a question, if mafia had a role blocker what would the reason be they did not block Dana? Dana the cop and the only outed PR would have to be mafia's play night 1, yet Dana got a result. This just strikes me as odd

unvote

just need to figure things out.

[Robbnva]

Unfortunately, he's hardly the only one to have coasted this game.

Lots of things flooding my mind now. UA, today you need to add something. I don't care if you have gut suspicions that you can't quite crystallise, you need to add something concrete to proceedings.

Robbnva, remind me where we have any evidence of a roleblocker at all?

End of yesterday replacements (Antihero, MME and the like): please tell me you caught up overnight?

seriously did you not read who was killed last night? Mafia roleblocker was killed.

this is why I think dana could be scum cop or not a cop at all. I was just in another game on this site where the cop was mafia cop and everyone trusted him.

if I was mafia roleblocker dana would have been blocked, period end of story.
the fact dana got a result is fishy.

[Robbnva]

Okay, I had my suspicions of dana as Day 2 dragged on, mostly revolving around the fact that he never really had a reason for voting me beyond what everyone else said, and avoided the question TWICE when I put it to him. This post is what pushed me over the edge:

Inno on Xite was my result. I didn't investigate Wraith because I figured it would be too obvious and scum might be able to affect it somehow (like a lawyer or framer). So I wish to lynch Wraith like we should have yesterday. vote: Wraith

Let me get this straight: you didn't want to investigate me (and therefore prove my innocence) because you thought a scum framer could frame me? And then you want to lynch me anyway despite thinking the MAFIA would frame me?

Vote: danakillsu

I actually like this logic, however because it is coming from you I am reluctant to do this but since I was the one who originally pointed out the role-blocking I am comfortable doing this

Vote dana

[Robbnva]

[Robbnva]

wow the fact that people can't read the death writeup is funny, tbh only scum would refuse to look at the death writeup imo since they are already know who is dead. I am sure dana is on his mafia qt right now saying FUCK I didn't know the roleblocker died, what do we do now guys.

[Robbnva]

why is everyone ignoring the fact that I said Lawyer OR Framer? is it just because it's convenient?

doesn't matter what you said, if you were pro-town cop and mafia has a role blocker (already confirmed because he is dead) thers is NO WAY you got an investigation off, unless mafia is fail and did not block you. I can not play out a single scenario in my head where I would not block the claimed cop on night 1 if I was mafia.

When I am a roleblocker for the bad guys, I make damn sure the first claimed power role is blocked until somebody better comes along and THIS is why I am voting you.

now I have to wonder about your inno on Xite, is that a ploy to earn town cred with him or is he your scum buddy. nobody will know for sure until the real cop comes forward, which I am sure they won't cause there is no doctor. <insert facepalm here>

[Robbnva]

also even if the role-blocker was killed, the way I have seen most games on this site run, it uses that natural whatever method which means basically the roleblocker role would happen before the roleblocker was dead, and if that is what the mod used in this game (don't know cause he does not list his order of actions) dana would have been blocked again and thus not had an inno on Xite.

I think the inno on DP was such an obvious thing to say, and again if I was cop there is NO WAY in hell I would investigate the DP because it was obvious he was lying.
The inno on Xite is what I am trying to wrap my head around, especially since dana did not read the night report to see the Rb had died, did dana just say he got an inno on Xite because Xite is a scum buddy OR is it because Xite really is town and he is trying to get cred wit him.

NOW if I recall, Xite never voted for dana on day 1 to me is yet another red flag.

[Robbnva]

Wickedestjr - Mason - Killed Night Two

The second death was not as much wicked as it was...magical.

Benmage - Mafia Roleblocker - Killed Night Two

I say we just no kill every day and let mafia/other prs kill themselves off /joking

Not funny

So I have a question, if mafia had a role blocker what would the reason be they did not block Dana? Dana the cop and the only outed PR would have to be mafia's play night 1, yet Dana got a result. This just strikes me as odd

unvote

just need to figure things out.

Because there's obviously more than one pr and mafia would attack someone more likely to cause a problem? I mean, they're counting on people to do exactly what you're doing so that they can have town get rid of the cop. I'm still not too sure that dana is a cop, because if there' only one scumgroup then he would definitely know that he would get an inno on me. That being said I think I know who's killing scum, don't worry I won't tell

your rationale makes no damn sense and just makes me think more and more that you are scum. there is NO WAY the mafia roleblocker is not going to block the cop, they don't want to take the chance of him actually hitting one of them and outing a mafia. I am sorry this just adds more scum points on your side.

You've been tunneling on Porochaz for ages, with what I see as a sequence of poor cases. Today's kill is going to be Wraith, and I'll tell you why. Because, IF Wraith is town, no mafia in their right mind would NK him. He's a scummy claimed vanilla who has come very close to lynch. And if our mysterious second killer was going to do the honor, he would have last night. The only way Wraith is going to die is by lynch, and if we put it off we're only delaying the inevitable.

So... you're trying to get wraith killed because.... he won't die any other way? How does that say he's scum?

Major FoS: Gorrad

yes I think gorrad has a point, why would mafia ever NK wraith when he is always going to be suspect number 1 for the town. Now I am willing to bet if dana really is a mafia member, than I would expect wraith to be NKd because he is not useful to the mafia anymore. If (and I am saying IF) the situation plays out and dana is scum, most likely Xite would be scum too and THAT is the reason he tried to stop the lynch on him. Keep him alive to look like the VI and divert attention onto other people who are also playing like VI.

Also,

Vote; Robbie

It

was

obvious I was going to do that right?

yeah it was obvious you line up your lynches which is another tell of scum. I'm sorry I don't believe dana is cop anymore and his clearing you is out the window in my opinion.

if it turns out you actually are town Xite, you are playing far worse than what you have accused me of playing. You are doing nobody any good right now.

[Robbnva]

Yeah. Well, Xite, seriously, ISO yourself. Compare the length to War and Peace. Did you expect that I read every word of it?

Xite's iso: Roughly 3,000 words.

War and Peace: Roughly 560,000 words.

I'm helpful : )

but yet they are both equally as boring and uninteresting to read.

@Xite I don't know if they have day talk abilities but I have been mafia 2 times on this site and both time I had day talk abilities and on the other site I play as mafia I have ALWAYS had day talk abilities, so assuming they have day talk abilities in this game isn't that far of a reach. That is one of the advantages mafia has, the ability to communicate with each other and set up their plan.

I have also learned to basically ignore all of your responses because none of them actually make any sense, and why would I vote you when I am pretty sure dana is scum, but if others would rather lynch you first I am more than happy to start that bandwagon.

The problem is lynching you doesn't prove if dana is good or bad, lynching dana and finding out he is scum will give us a better idea of things.

[Robbnva]

I am sure dana is on his mafia qt right now saying FUCK I didn't know the roleblocker died, what do we do now guys.

.

Ok did not see this.

unvote
vote robbnva

Is it just me or does dana and robb seem to go buddy-buddy? And it isn't one-way, but both.

It is just you

[Robbnva]

if I was mafia roleblocker dana would have been blocked, period end of story.
the fact dana got a result is fishy.

If I was a mafia role-blocker, I wouldn't block dana, because people already don't believe him. This needs to stop being discussed and left for another day, because it's diluting the thread and pointless. Dana really aught not be the kill today, honestly if people are so worried about him, then maybe the SK/vig should just take him out. If he flips scum, then I will gladly take my lynch if that's how you feel things should happen (of course, by you I mean the town, not you robbie, cuz you're scum.)
But right now, the right lynch is definitely robbie.

I actually like this logic,

however because it is coming from you I am reluctant to do this

but since I was the one who originally pointed out the role-blocking I am comfortable doing this

Vote dana

Bolded. Not the first time you've done this. Nice way to discredit him
Underlined. And then you go and try to show us how townie you are?
Wow. Color added so everyone gets this part.

1. Well since I originally thought he was scum, it isn't an attempt to discredit him but more of a "I can't believe he is saying this" kind of vibe
2. WOW you are reaching to the point of not making sense. how is that trying to look town? do you not get that I thought Wraith is scum so I am making that statement to clarify that my vote on dana isn't because of Wraith's vote, it is because I was actually contemplating doing it when I first pointed out the roleblocker.
3. your logic on the roleblocker is totally wrong, don't you think dana would look more suspicious if he came back each day claiming to be role-blocked? personally I would. If cop is coming back with innocents I would not lynch him, but now cop is coming back with results after it is confirmed there is a mafia role blocker makes me suspect dana of lying. I have seen a game where dana lied about being a power role early on a game and makes it to about day 7 before getting lynched, he pulls this stuff and he is quite convincing so I am not falling for it.

[Robbnva]

If D2 isn't nearly as shit, I may be willing to do ^that for it. But since we lynched a doctor, I'm guessing it's equally shit.

yeah basically d2 is shit, quick unbiased summary

Xite starts bandwagon on wraith
wraith overreacts
Xite fake daykills wraith
Xite leaves wraith's bandwagon citing meta as primary reason
Xite starts coming after me
I return the favor (the part in here is where I will put in my own opinion that I think my case on him is better than his case on me)
people are unsure which bandwagon to get on, the one for Wraith is solid but slowly people jump over to mysterio
citing deadline reasons (when people are actually requesting a deadline) Bunny decides to hammer without letting mysterio claim.

end unbiased summary

I will say that my vote probably looks sketchy on mysterio but because I had originally voted him and made a case for him after the fake day kill I feel my vote was justified, I shoudl have been more aware of what the vote count was cause I put him at L-1 letting Bunny hammer.

ok here are a few thoughts

1. with people requesting the deadline bunny's vote looks VERY bad. we had people requesting an extension and mysterio on L-1, why would he not let him claim
2. earlier in the game bunny mentions what if there is a mafia roleblocker, for some reason this comment strikes me as off especially since we know there is one now.

FOS Bunnylover

[Robbnva]

@x go look at the 2 games I was mafia, beleive one was a newbie game, we could talk via PM and white flag mafia we had a qt and were allowed to day talk.

The rest I can't respond to on my phone But no I never read war and peace just like I don't read most of your posts. They eventually got to the point where it became faulty logic and baseless accusations.

[Robbnva]

I will say this is the most fun game I have played on this site, most people on this site are boring but I have now found a 3rd person that I enjoy playing with

regardless of what happens, mod you get props for this game

I like not playing against the same 20 people every game like on my other site

[Robbnva]

I am sure dana is on his mafia qt right now saying FUCK I didn't know the roleblocker died, what do we do now guys.

.

Ok did not see this.

unvote
vote robbnva

Is it just me or does dana and robb seem to go buddy-buddy? And it isn't one-way, but both.

1. This makes no sense to me at all, how is me speculating what Dana is doing seem like him and I are buddy buddy?

2. This is an obvious following Xite instead of making your own case

3. Your entire vote history has lacked merit, not once do you make a case on anyone you vote for

Fos hippity hoppity

[Robbnva]

Hip hop votes

post 1 - wraith no reason
post 8 - vote Dana cause he just wants to bw someone
post 17 - votes frank "he is not a PR"
post 21 - votes wraith "I don't think he is a townie"
post 25 - votes mysterio no reason given
post 29 - votes poro - no reason
post 30 - votes me cause I'm buddying Dana by putting a case against him for possible fake cop claim (yeah I'm doing a good job at buddying him:roll:)

[Robbnva]

game with PM - http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... &start=600

game with QT - http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 54&t=15042

site where I play normally on a 3 different mafia private forums - http://goallineblitz.com/game/home.pl