NY 118 - BBM's Large Normal Mafia (Game!)

[evilpacman18]

Hi all. Working on a massive post covering the entire game so far. Will probably finish it tomorrow afternoon. Glad to be playing.

[evilpacman18]

EBWOP: Oh God, dana has a cop claim? Is that how he survived the D1 lynch? x_x (I'm still only on page 7 and wondering how it's even possible that dana wasn't lynched then)

[evilpacman18]

Quick question: Where do I find saved drafts of posts? I can only find PM drafts. I'ma be pissed if I lost everything I typed so far.

[evilpacman18]

Actually nevermind, it was still on my clipboard. I'm up to Page 10. Dana is obvscum. I don't even care how well he makes up for it in between then and now.

VOTE: danakillsu

Be back tonight.

[evilpacman18]

I’m writing this as I read the thread so I may change my mind on certain things or add to previous thoughts as I go along. I doubt I’ll be able to organize it any better than just chronologically. Also, I’m writing this on Word because the thread is locked at the moment so if I mess up quotes and stuff, that’s why… And you can expect me to restate stuff people already said, probably because I think the same thing they think before I see that they thought it. That happens a lot. Here goes…

Well it's funny to see the reactions I got from pretending I knew UA was scum. I have played with him before, I believe. At any rate, no one as experienced as me would really pretend that they knew someone was scum in the RVS. And the fact that it's tradition to start with a bandwagon on UA should make my actions even less remarkable. Anyway, I'm glad I make it worth it to you, UA. unvote Good to see some discussion starting.

A bit quick to defend, aren’t we? By this time, the UA thing was over as it had already been established that it was just a joke. This post was completely unnecessary. Idk about your meta so maybe you’re always like this. If I was there for the start of the game, this would merit a vote. And seniority is not an argument.

Well it's funny to see the reactions I got from pretending I knew UA was scum. I have played with him before, I believe. At any rate, no one as experienced as me would really pretend that they knew someone was scum in the RVS. And the fact that it's tradition to start with a bandwagon on UA should make my actions even less remarkable. Anyway, I'm glad I make it worth it to you, UA. unvote Good to see some discussion starting.

This post is bullshit.

I see I’m not the only one who thinks so.

"Meta" is a bullshit concept

Really? So you read through the thread, random voted, came back 8 minutes later and decided that you wanted to change your vote saying "Hey that's my line!" to the main issue against said person you voted for, meanwhile only parrotingly saying "I agree with _____" and such riveting analysis as "Choo Choo"?

I was about to talk about what I didn't like about this post then I realized it was me
I've never replaced into a game before. I'm interested in seeing how opinions on the people before me shape how people react to me...

Awwwwwww how cuuuuuuute :3

You seem to be defending Benmage a bit, and given the actions of the two of you I would wager pretty easily that both of you are scum, something which will be more definite when your inevitable lynch goes through and we see that lovely red text on the lynch scene. But OK, I can explain exactly why it was BS if it's really at all necessary.

It's in essence an argument from authority mixed with some good ol' no true scotsman; you are using your experience to establish yourself as an authority figure in the game, and you are then saying that "nobody as experienced as me would really pretend that they knew someone was scum in the RVS", essentially again asserting your experience over anyone else who might be daring to say that someone is scum in your little demarcated zone called "RVS".

Any questions?

I like me. Though I disagree a bit here. I'm getting a definite scum read on danakillsu so far but benmage just seems like he doesn't know how to handle an argument too well. Nothing scummy about that.

Ok will enough quoting JDodge, I guess I replaced into someone very aggressive.

Whatever. Wagon me. Don't care. You'll probably realize it's pointless eventually, because I know the people here in general are smart enough to see through your lies. It's obvious Poro just wants me lynched, because all he's done is say my post is BS without saying why or how that makes me scum. I'm not going to stoop to the level of "no, it's not". The truth of that post is for me to know, and for you to guess. Poro is guessing.

AtE

This

I like Furcolow's posts so far. I'm wondering why danakillsu hasn't been lynched yet.

*Checks OP*
What the HELL? You guys lynched Furcolow over dana D1? WOW... I'm interested in seeing where this is going, sounds crazy to me at the moment.

Ok well his little quibble with UA may have been the start of it. I don't think UA was really defending dana.

Well it's hard to deal with everything at once, so if I leave something out, just let me know. It is really strange that everyone felt my saying "no one of my experience etc." meant that I thought everyone should listen to me, or I was smarter, or something. All I was saying was that it would be a total newb mistake to try and pretend that they had caught scum that early. I'm even more surprised that no one could see the lack of total seriousness in my original post about UA. Furcolow calls something I've done a scumslip, though I don't think he means that and don't know what he's talking about. Everyone feels that my saying Poro is guessing means that he's right somehow, when all it means was that I wasn't going to bother to spell out the fact that he was incorrect. Now I have to do that because everyone's trying to turn every word I say into a scumtell.
@xite
Sorry, but the "Winning by Losing" thing doesn't apply in the least. You notice how I never said that anything was a master plan of mine to watch others scumslip? You notice how I never said that UA's reaction to my vote was exactly what I was looking for? You notice how I've never tried in the least to use ANYTHING in this entire situation to my advantage? You have now.
And finally, I was clearly not certain that I had played with UA before, since I said "I believe". I did believe it, but was not sure, and it was not true. Big deal.
unvote
We are out of the RVS, and I need to do some scumhunting of my own.

This post addresses all the problems that were brought up when he said the post but it ignores the fact that his defense was out of place and unnecessary.

Because it's not what I know, it's what I can convince everyone else. What I know is my role. What I don't know is anyone else's roles. I hate to have to be teaching Mafia 101 to you, but I guess that's where we're at.

The town are not going to allow my lynching of UAscum. They, for some reason, do not as a collective suspect him yet. When you flip scum, though, they'll begin to see that I was right. Actually, maybe not, because UA will kill me in the night.

Point yourself out, then dana. You are obvscum, as is reflected by the votecount.

This post is unfortunate, he had something up to here. This would make it look like Scum v scum to me if he hadn't already flipped town.

*sigh*
Fine.

Oh and what the fuck. Benmage is in this game?
hahahahaha Vote: Benmage

I hate posts like this. Very lazy.

First off: I didn't say the fact that there are many votes on you meant you were scum, I said that there are votes on you which indicates people find you to be scum. If it came out any other way THIS is how I meant it to be said. I also responded that either of your wagons would be a good lynch as town. How was that not addressing this? Quit trying to put words in my mouth. Also, I didn't state that a large wagon means you are scum. I am saying you have a large wagon on you because you are acting hyper-aware of the fact that you ARE scum, and have made many slipups including OMGUS/AtE/strawman.

This sucks. Feels like his argument hit a dead end and he was stuck quoting the same couple argument flaws over and over. danakillsu IS guilty of all three of those but Furcolow's problem was that he couldn't follow up, it seems.

The more the initial emotional reaction to dana's post is passing, the more I think he might have been trying to piss about in the first post he made. The second and subsequent posts are still scummy (

there's a desperation to avoid attention at a pre-emptive level

and his reaction to those voting him makes it looks like his first priority is not to find sucm but to avoid being lynched).

This is what I'm saying. His defense was WAAAAAAAY too early and that's the biggest scumtell I'm looking at. I think people ignored his bad timing for other less important stuff inside the post.

I thought you weren't replying to me anymore, but anyway...I didn't put words in your mouth, simply interpreted them in a logical way which apparently was not correct or was correct and you are lying about your intent. I find it hard to believe that you really meant something other than what your words say. You said I was obvscum because of the votes on me. If that's true, you are saying a large bandwagon on me makes me scum. OMGUS/AtE/strawman...none of these are slipups, they are not scumtells, they are just not great logic/great play, and two of these are matters of opinion. And "either wagon would be good for town" didn't address the issue, because the issue was where your vote was.

This post is essentially the same thing as attacking his grammar. So many words to say so little...

Of course I was (at least kind of) joking. I had no real reason to say what I said seriously. That's why I turned to my experience. After 10 games completed, I definitely know the basics of scumtells. And self-voting is not one of them. And yeah, I was pretty much lying in the first post (joking is more accurate). But calling everything in the second post BS is what Poro did, and what I thought you were doing.

OH SHUT UP! I can't believe you guys didn't lynch him... There better be a good reasons for this

Too many people all attacking each other for some reason that probably shouldn't be attacking :<.
You all gave me a headache reading these pages <_<.
I haven't gotten any reads on who could be positive scummy, so my vote can wait.

There was more than enough to merit votes on at least three people at this point. Possibly not willing to lynch a mafia partner.

Shanba: who's scum?

What? Lol you don't post one useful thing and then you start questioning people who have been really good so far?

I'm assuming RECKONER is Reck in the OP... so now he's DH (only person in this game I know). Hopefully DH is a little less lazy...

Yep. xRECK and I have quite a history together. Including Crimson King. If you don't mind, xReck, did you really think I was scum, or were you just pretending so you could carry out your wincon? (In Crimson King, that is)

Off-topic: There was a game based on this album? I can't believe I missed that... (It's the greatest album of all time imo)

No, I legitimately thought you were scum.

Shanba, I don't know how else to explain it...maybe it's just bias, but every single post he makes I wind up thinking to myself "Hey, I could see this coming from a scum perspective".

This is why meta comes in handy.
Lazy player's first action being to defend the scummiest player in the game? Possible team here. Pretty fantastic defense too if they are a team.

Town reads (just to keep track for myself): Shanba, UA, Porochaz
Scum reads: dana, Bunnylover, xRECKONERx (the last two are pushing it. I'm fairly convinced about dana though.)

Of course I was (at least kind of) joking. I had no real reason to say what I said seriously. That's why I turned to my experience. After 10 games completed, I definitely know the basics of scumtells. And self-voting is not one of them. And yeah, I was pretty much lying in the first post (joking is more accurate). But calling everything in the second post BS is what Poro did, and what I thought you were doing.

Seeing what other people have done in other games on this site in the RVS, I thought I Could Of Played around a little bit before the game got serious, and thought it surprising and somewhat funny what actually happened.

moar AtE

Yeah, I come from a very different background than most of you, I bet, so my posts would naturally stick out. That's what I've always thought, anyway. Trust me, though, I've been town in at least 5 games where the overwhelming majority of the other players were completely sure I was scum. Not that I expect that to really help me in this game. I wouldn't know about Furcolow, but I'm pretty sure he isn't usually posting this way (I have played one game with him in it).

Now he's overcompensating. Trying too hard to be nice.

[.size=1]ya[/size]

You bad boy you. (note: I added the dot)

Vote: Hip-Hop

Woops, wrong thread!

Unvote

^_^

So, then would be a pretty nice random vote. And yet... you unvote. Why? And this vote was starting a bandwagon. So really, why the unvote? Worried about where that wagon would go?

Vote: Kise

1. Random voted hiphop, then unvoted before hiphop even aknowledged the vote and doesn't random vote again.
2. Encourages hiphop to selfvote.
3. Asks for reasons to bandwagon Wraith in the RVS. Why does there need to be a reason?

Agree.

Can we not demarcate the game into "random vote stage" and "serious stage" and instead focus on actually playing from the start? I hate having to sift through a bunch of needless crap just because someone thought that there was a magic point at which things suddenly began to matter.

Agree so effing much. Even though in this case you are wrong.

Well it's funny to see the reactions I got from pretending I knew UA was scum. I have played with him before, I believe. At any rate, no one as experienced as me would really pretend that they knew someone was scum in the RVS. And the fact that it's tradition to start with a bandwagon on UA should make my actions even less remarkable. Anyway, I'm glad I make it worth it to you, UA.

unvote

Good to see some discussion starting.

Excuse me? "Oh I was just acting." So awful. Especially the way it is done. Have you done this before as Town? If so, provide links.

Vote: danakillsu

I still want a response from Kise though.

Yes.

Whatever. Wagon me. Don't care. You'll probably realize it's pointless eventually, because I know the people here in general are smart enough to see through your lies. It's obvious Poro just wants me lynched, because all he's done is say my post is BS without saying why or how that makes me scum. I'm not going to stoop to the level of "no, it's not". The truth of that post is for me to know, and for you to guess. Poro is guessing.

AtE does not become you. Now, AtE is not too much of a tell normally, but combined with your previous "I was just acting" stuff, it seems scummy.

VOTE: danakills

And now I get to see where the thread explosion begins. Dana, Ben, Dodge, UA; this is just awful.

Unvote

Vote: JDodge

Way too sure of his reads this early in the game when half the players haven't even posted yet.

Interesting thought Mysterio. I didn't see this, but you could be right. Except, isn't it surety about Town reads that is usually the scumtell? Also, noted for future reference.

Reasoning: JDodge, imo, efficiently ended the RVS through explanation of UA's insane play. It was a nice post, not great, but nice.
Dana follows with a TERRIBLY scummy post, which is way too defensive for the point of the game we were at, and then digs his hole deeper by OMGUS on Shanba when Shanba voted him for that scummy post. Dana was thinking we were still in the RVS, when, in fact, we weren't.

RVS is a misnomer. There is no stage. Saying that someone is scum for random voting after the random voting phase is over is horrible play. But what else should we expect from the player that once promised to hammer anybody that claimed a power role on day 1. I still think that dana's post is extremely scummy, but I felt that this comment needs to be addressed. Note: I may have a slight prejudice about furc after reading a specific game that I was so lucky not to be in.

Oh boy! Now furc is getting in on the thread explosion action!

And dana's OMGUS vote looks

really

bad.

Dana's not really getting any better and Franks splaffing everywhere without making any sense whatsoever.

QFT

I'll also comment on hiphop's activity during the RVS, which I think was just a random wagon to garner reactions from anyone who jumped aboard. He can't have anything actually against me considering I've never played with him and this is my first post here.

Whoa! Defensive much?

Votecount 1.2 shows the real problems with the approach that has been taken so far: on page 6, and half of the players haven't even posted/voted.

Rest of page 6 is dana says "RAWR! FURC IS EVIL!" and then furc says "RAWR! DANA IS EVIL!" Or do I have that backwards? Whatever. Either way, you two are just cluttering the thread. It isn't even a case anymore. It's just "no you are!"

*sigh*
Fine.

Oh and what the fuck. Benmage is in this game?
hahahahaha

Vote: Benmage

read

before

voting. That way, we actually have, you know, an opinion.

Too many people all attacking each other for some reason that probably shouldn't be attacking :<.
You all gave me a headache reading these pages <_<.
I haven't gotten any reads on who could be positive scummy, so my vote can wait.

Nice input there... So, everyone is still null right now? If not, can you give an opinion of your own?

Have you ever played with dana before? Because I tend to wind up thinking he's scum in every damn game I play with him.

Cool, you have meta. Have you ever seen him try to use an early game gambit like the one he claims to have used here?

furc's 182 is wrong in so many ways I can't even respond to it without destroying every sarcasm meter on mafiascum. OK, so he does get a few things right. OK, one thing: the "it's all pretend" comment was awesome.

/confirm

And Xite speaks the truth about A2Rudeboy.

IS he still in this game?

@Mod

requesting prod

Sigh... I'm sorry that not everyone posts as frequently as you do... We really should work on that. Then we could have thread explosion times 10!!!! And it would be sooooo awesome.[/do I even need a sarcasm tag for this one?]

I approve of this whole post.

In case people can't read this was in my first post:
"I haven't gotten any reads on who could be positive scummy, so my vote can wait."
I don't play like everyone else, I don't go THIS PERSON HAS A SLIGHT SUSPICION OF BEEN SCUM SO MY VOTE GO ON HIM."
When I vote, its because I am more then sure that the person I am voting for is mafia, or someone who is harmful for the townie.
I have given my opinion, but not on what you guys want. I don't think the people who have posted have shown positive scum, some have done some things that are a little suspicious, but to gain anything in game you have to risk yourself, which i did state, and I gave my opinion on Poro action, which I guess you just ignored.
Also my post states that I think differently, so I'm not sure if I am correct, so why question me on rather or not you should believe me. You don't have to believe me, because its my opinion. And if I wanted to hide why would I even answer Poro post if he is the only person out of 24 people who actually noticed that I posted. If I wanted to hide I could have ignored it and just let it die as everyone else try to dominate the topic.
And i don't know how to fake scum hunt. I really don't know what that mean to be honest :<.

I find this a bit hard to believe. Very few mafia will be bad enough players to do something blatant enough to make you sure they are scum. This is why we do stuff like lynching Doctors (can't wait to see what got Mysterio killed). We're never sure, but every slight thing does add up to a big thing. You seem like you're trying to ignore all the slight tells and wait for a big one which will never come, especially if you ignore the little ones.

I wouldn't mind a policy lynch on Bunnylover at this point.

Would you like me to lump you in on a scum team with him, because that's what you're making me do.

And to think... I respected your opinion when this started.

First, Frank is also scum
Dana could just be really bad town, but depending on other flips could be scum too.
Wraith is scum.
Jdodge is possible scum.

Keep reading for the inside scoop!

I find that pretty impossible. Furcolow vs. Dana is a bit too legit and too nooby to be faked and Wraith... well I could see dana and Wraith. And seeing as how I'm JDodge now, I'm pretty sure you're wrong on that one

But I can't shake the feeling that JDodge is distancing from dana, so

Do you have anything tangible, or just a feeling?

Distancing... that IS the tangible part of it. The way you're acting towards him seems like distancing to me. It's a common scum tactic D1.

He meant he wants you to explain how it is distancing. Obviously, distancing is a scumtell, but if you just FEEL like it's distancing, it means absolutely nothing.

Prozac, JDodge, and Furcolow make excellent cases against UA and dana especially. While I'm not totally sure about UA due to his playstyle, that last OMGUS vote sealed the deal for me against dana. However, I think we should prevent a hammer before we get enough discussion, and I'm putting it out there now that I will unvote to prevent L-1 if it comes too early for my tastes. Vote: danakillsu

Mod, votecount please.

I'll also comment on hiphop's activity during the RVS, which I think was just a random wagon to garner reactions from anyone who jumped aboard. He can't have anything actually against me considering I've never played with him and this is my first post here.

Oh, by the way, Wraith is also scum.
There are so many textbook tells in just that post. Just sayin.

I disagree. This relies entirely on the fact that your reads are correct, which they could easily be not.

Prozac, JDodge, and Furcolow make excellent cases against UA and dana especially. While I'm not totally sure about UA due to his playstyle, that last OMGUS vote sealed the deal for me against dana. However, I think we should prevent a hammer before we get enough discussion, and I'm putting it out there now that I will unvote to prevent L-1 if it comes too early for my tastes.

Vote: danakillsu

Really bad voting fail.

QFT

This I agree with.

Okay, so my scum list

Frank
Wraith
Bunny

My not-so-sure but still suspicious of them being scum list

Dana
Jdodge
Hiphop

Frank was obviously wrong, Wraith is just bad at this game, Bunny seems like crappy town or a mandatory policy lynch, Dana is obvscum, I'm obvtown, and no read on Hip-Hop.

Okay, first of all, this thread is very active. It's not that hard to keep up with but it has a lot of useless walls of text. Most of these walls of text (if not all of them) are useless because they are all repeating points that have already been brought up regarding danakillsu and Furcolow. We don't need every player explaining why each post from dana and Furcolow is scummy.

Obviously this is very helpful to everybody and much better than those posts.

Danakillsu also looks like town, because of his reaction to the attack from Furcolow.

Lol hypocrite and good job at failing to expand.

IGMEOEverybody

Xite and Wickedest have some very interesting insights. I think they are both town.

Xite and Wickedest are poor misled town who are defending me and I'm going to pretend I like them so they continue to mislead the rest of the town for me.

Also

fos: Hiphop

for blatantly joining my wagon simply because it's a wagon. Believing that we can't give ourselves a better chance of finding scum by logic is self-fulfilling.

OMGUS FOS? Nice.

Xite, please, when you are making a point, do it complete and correct. Show how the appeal to emotion is in anyway scummy, as we are human beings and emotions are good. I like emotions, as they can tell you who is town or scum.

This is incorrect. Scum need to use all 3 appeals effectively to win. Town players only need to appeal to logic. AtE is definitely a scumtell.

You say the last thing I should do is take the game seriously, but everyone gets suspicious when I try to have some fun with the RVS. How do you propose I rectify such a situation in the future?

Don't slip and then try to pretend you were just having fun. That might be a good start.

Read it back, completely correct: VOTE: Mysterio

Wait so... You make two long posts attacking dana almost entirely and then end by quoting somebody else and saying you agree then going with that vote? LOLOLOLOLOLOL I smell coaching.

FoS: flinter

This quote bothers me. It seems like "I'm not posting, but I want to look like I'm posting." "Flailing" can apply to anything if you try hard enough. Lashing out at his primary accuser isn't exactly the scummiest thing in the world (the primary accuser would have the most to respond to), and nitpicking is a nulltell. The diction used in this post seems like trying to further smear danakillsu without having to provide much content. In other words, contributing to a wagon without actually contributing. The last sentence is pointless, but still has the connotations of scumhunting. Could potentially be subtle coaching. Wraith doesn't want to bus on day 1? A stretch, but if one of them is scum, this ties them together quite nicely.

...who are you again?

I love how obvious you make it that your 10th or 11th grade advanced English class is just teaching you how to logic. "Diction" isn't something you wanna base reads on in this game, nobody picks their words that carefully. Authors do that, but we don't have such important posts that we need to make sure every word is in its right place, as long as we're able to say something.

I don't like flinter's points against Xite.

...Sooo...?

By "lots of fluff", I meant that I felt a large part of the post was unhelpful. The first three sentences are you listing points you

don't

agree with. The sentence after that you point out something headdesk worthy. The only part of that post that is actually helpful is your points regarding Wraith and Danakillsu explaining why they may be connected. Speaking of which, you see a connection between the two based on Wraith's posts yet vote danakillsu. And you didn't even mention why you found danakillsu scummy in your first post.

FoS: ConfidAnon

If hypocrisy was a scumtell, I would FoS you here.

I found danakillsu scummy for the plethora of points mentioned by others. I didn't feel the need to mention them because I didn't want an unneccessarily long post. Walls which repeat thing clutter the thread. Probably should have put a statement like this in the original post, my apologies. Was rushing to get it out tehre.

Keep that vocab list coming. It's inspriting.

Throwing spaghetti much with all those IGMEOYs?
I can understand suspecting quite a few people, but the way you did it without voting anyone makes me think you're looking for a reaction

I love this guy.

And... wow, I now see why the DKU wagon got started. Post 67 is just fucking awful on so many levels. Then he immediately backs off when he's put under pressure? This isn't just dana posting scummy, this is something entirely different, so my meta questions about dana that I asked Shanba are null at this point.

I... I... the more I read along, the more I see dana-scum. OMGUSing Shanba under the guise of voting Shanba for OMGUSing... wtf. Poro is town. Benmage needs rope, probably. JDodge is town...ish. Not as strong of a read as Poro or Shanba though.

FACEDESK OH MY GOD. WOW this might just take the record for most annoying two paragraphs I've ever seen in a game of mafia.

The fact that he only decides to notice everything wrong with Dana at L-2 makes me think he finally decided that it was time to jump on the wagon to distance himself. He probably wouldn't have hammered.

FOS: DemonHybrid

*and then, I continued to the next page and saw Reck's next post, and then I just sat there motionless because I couldn't figure out what to do as an exclamation for the amount of fail in it, a facedesk wasn't nearly enough:*

Shit.

Unvote

.
A bit flimsy but the breadcrumb helps.

He put dana at L-1 and then became the first person to unvote at dana's nonsense claim.

Biggest town reads: ConfidAnon, Xite91, Porochaz, Nhammen (lol I was wrong there)
Biggest scum reads: danakillsu, Reck/DH, flinter, Bunnylover

Ok so Reck was an idiot. I'll just leave that there. When dana flips scum, I'd like him to be lynched.

I will stop typing here. I can already see where the rest of the day is going. I'm probably just gonna get pissed off if I have to comment on everything. I will continue to catch up but I'm not gonna be quoting and commenting on as much of the game as this.

[evilpacman18]

If D2 isn't nearly as shit, I may be willing to do ^that for it. But since we lynched a doctor, I'm guessing it's equally shit.

[evilpacman18]

That post was just as much to let you know I'm not a player to disregard because of my low post count as it was to help get my thoughts together. I hate being underestimated.

[evilpacman18]

Sorry, I skimmed through that whole thing.

I don't see how danakillsu's claim a few days ago was OBVIOUSLY fake, especially after DP's flip. I can understand Reck's reasoning with that, but I don't necessarily agree with all of his reads. For example, I find Poro one of the scummiest people here, so don't associate him with Reck as far as reads go. However, I do feel like dana's faking it now that this WIFOM bullcrap has been going on.

So, yeah, you seem to know a lot about dana's role. This in particular stands out:

When dana flips scum, I'd like him to be lynched.

You seem to know a little too much.

Unvote, Vote: evilpacman18

I figured that could be a risky thing to say in a game where nobody knows me. I'm always very confident when I'm right. To be honest, I haven't read through the whole dana claim phase so if he does a better job of explaining himself, I may have more to say on the matter but that tiny little "I'm a cop and something about breadcrums" (I don't know that particular bit of the lingo around here) sounded weak to me.

As for associating you with Reck, I don't expect you to have all his same reads, but I do expect you to be the same role that he was, which he did a good job of making me think that role was a mafia role. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you two WOULD have the same role, correct?

[evilpacman18]

Lol take into account that I haven't actually read you yet. Where my post ended is where I ended.

[evilpacman18]

@x go look at the 2 games I was mafia, beleive one was a newbie game, we could talk via PM and white flag mafia we had a qt and were allowed to day talk.

The rest I can't respond to on my phone But no I never read war and peace just like I don't read most of your posts. They eventually got to the point where it became faulty logic and baseless accusations.

This is faulty logic and a baseless accusation.

Sorry, I skimmed through that whole thing.

I don't see how danakillsu's claim a few days ago was OBVIOUSLY fake, especially after DP's flip. I can understand Reck's reasoning with that, but I don't necessarily agree with all of his reads. For example, I find Poro one of the scummiest people here, so don't associate him with Reck as far as reads go. However, I do feel like dana's faking it now that this WIFOM bullcrap has been going on.

So, yeah, you seem to know a lot about dana's role. This in particular stands out:

When dana flips scum, I'd like him to be lynched.

You seem to know a little too much.

Unvote, Vote: evilpacman18

This vote doesn't have much merit and seems pretty forced to me.

It also reeks of OMGUS.

That's exactly what it is. I'm actually pretty surprised. DH may be sucky scum, I've seen his town play and he never did anything that pathetic.

1. This makes no sense to me at all, how is me speculating what Dana is doing seem like him and I are buddy buddy?

2. This is an obvious following Xite instead of making your own case

3. Your entire vote history has lacked merit, not once do you make a case on anyone you vote for

1) Why is it that nothing makes sense to you?
2) No it's not, he added his own content, my case on you is based on your play throughout all of day2 and today.
3) I agree with this one here
Your whole set of points here looks a lot like bussing to me...

1. because he provided no evidence of me being buddy buddy with dana, and I doubt he would be able to since it never happened
2. he did not add anything of value, just a made up statement with nothing to support it
3. meh, your opinion means dick to me
last i checked townie can't buss mafia, unless there is some new rule I missed.

This is turning into a slap fight. Probably town v. town. Your guys' little argument here is more about differing pro-town opinions than anything else. Let's focus on getting the scum here. (Meaning that the flinter vs. Xite thing needs to stop too, arguing over theory is never helpful and yet it always happens.)

[evilpacman18]

I'm going to have a hard time answering all the questions and attacks directed at me

tonight

, but for now, just remember that me not being roleblocked is just as much WIFOM as me not dying and that the two could easily go hand in hand.

Now this IS interesting, but I'm not sure whether to call it a scumslip because that would mean that at least a few people asking him questions would also be scum with him... Eh, I'll just take it as tonight IRL for now.

This is ridiculous. Clearly he meant real time.

[evilpacman18]

You STILL don't know my name? >_<

[evilpacman18]

I am scum.

He said it. It's in quotes. This is undeniable proof and my logic is not flawed at all.

[evilpacman18]

DH has stayed on the dana wagon for pretty much all of today. I'm taking this as a town tell. My number of scumtells still outweighs the number of towntells but he's a bit more neutral now. Most scum would have hopped off the wagon as soon as it became the cool thing to do.

[evilpacman18]

all of today *once he got off that stupid OMGUS vote on me.*

[evilpacman18]

Pacman is Scum - Scum

I don't even...

[evilpacman18]

What makes Wraith's WIFOM more believeable than Dana's WIFOM?

I'd appreciate if you explained your read on me.

[evilpacman18]

JDodge was Scum, @.@ was Scum, you're Scum

I approve of this logic. Same reason DH is scum except.

[evilpacman18]

EBWOP: remove that "except"

[evilpacman18]

Im still waiting for the rest of your analysis.

This was to pacman by the way.

Oh. Ok. Gimme a day.

[evilpacman18]

I have a couple people I'd like to iso. Except I don't know how to iso. Help?

[evilpacman18]

I'm noticing that people are ignoring dana's game before he claimed cop. It seems to me like people remember that he was acting scummy but they've forgotten just how scummy he was acting. Cuz he was acting REALLY FREAKING SCUMMY.

Scummy =/= scum

but

Scummy = deserve to be lynched

[evilpacman18]

I'm here. /unprod

I was just enjoying some Pokemon Black >_>
I got a bit too much into it, even forgetting about this game (and others).

ANYWAYS, I'll catch up on this day and post some stuff.

This is a legitimate excuse.

If Xite is scum then he's played an amazing game. Unless something game-changing happens I'm not going to support a Xite lynch.

I really do like Xite's play but I wouldn't say amazing. I think he's just long-winded, which is either a town tell or meta. I'm guessing meta in this case.

We want to talk about some scummy behavior

Will be voting dana as soon as I see the votecount (don't want to get anywhere near L-1/hammer without a LOT more conversation)

but than his VERY NEXT POST (cut out his wall of text quotes of other people and his fluff responses and just posting the meat of his post)

First, Frank is also scum
Dana could just be really bad town, but depending on other flips could be scum too.

changing your mind so soon?

Or we could just skip the mislynch and lynch you now?

Unvote, Vote Frank

WAY TO GO, you skipped the mislynch

Okay, so my scum list

Frank
Wraith
Bunny

My not-so-sure but still suspicious of them being scum list

Dana

oh wait so the post RIGHT BEFORE THIS ONE, you say you are going to vote dana but now he isn't on your scum list?

Jdodge
Hiphop

So, yeah

so if this isn't an attempt to distance himself from the dana wagon after origially saying he would join the dana wagon, than I don't know what is

NOW

Dana is getting quite a large wagon again and we get this post

Okay, so anyone not voting for Robbie, I would like a reason as to why that does not have ANYTHING to do with WIFOM. (AKA claimed cop discussion)

Umm excuse me when did you become the leader of the game? my interpretation of this is if you are not voting robbnva you need to explain why.

really this isn't scummy to anyone? (notice he wants everyone to ignore the fake cop claim because he doesn't think that is a valid reason to not vote me when his reasoning on why a role blocker would not block a cop doesn't make any logical sense)

Scum team = Dana and Xite it is so damn obvious.

This was an impressive post and it almost made me decide not to support the Robb wagon and then

let's test the cop

Vote Xite

Xite comes up scum than lynch dana

OMGUS

[evilpacman18]

UA, you know your vote's still on you?

I am. I'm waiting for a vote count, which I've been promised is coming soon. Expect my vote to switch after it happens

You shouldn't need a vote count for a vote. You vote on whoever you think ought to be killed the most, needing a vote count to decide for you means you're probably gonna hop on a wagon with no reason why, which is lazy or scummy.

@Evilpacman (I remembered your name!) - How was that a decent post exactly?

He's right, you did flip-flop. I wouldn't have caught it though so I'm giving him props, though I never said I agree.

[evilpacman18]

Eh, I don't see it so much as flip-flopping because I still thought he was scum, but not as much. But if Dana turns up scum and you feel the need to lynch me, go ahead. That's your prerogative, but at least help me lynch obvscum first (which by the way isn't dana)

I don't plan on that any time soon, you're still very pro-town imo and yes, it is dana.

[evilpacman18]

Also @ Porochaz: You won't be getting the rest of that analysis. I really just lightly skimmed the rest of the thread, I couldn't make a half-decent post out of everything I got from it.

[evilpacman18]

@Xite - your on for the avatar bet. when I flip town you wear whatever avatar I pick out for you.

Can I guess this explains the Powerpuff Girls? (Not that I have anything against them, I still watch it when it's on)

UA, you know your vote's still on you?

I am. I'm waiting for a vote count, which I've been promised is coming soon. Expect my vote to switch after it happens

You shouldn't need a vote count for a vote. You vote on whoever you think ought to be killed the most, needing a vote count to decide for you means you're probably gonna hop on a wagon with no reason why, which is lazy or scummy.

Or he's trying to avoid the same situation we had yesterday, with a lynch before a claim.

Speaking of which! Robb, as soon as that VC confirms my count (you being at L-3, I believe), I expect a claim.

I am not claiming at L-3 so suck it homie

If you're town, you should be willing to comply with the town's wishes. It's probably better off for you. Say you claim VT (which every VT should do by the way, town must never lie), if you're at L-1, we're not gonna wanna have to decide whether to finish you or to unvote and kill dana. If you're at L-3 and you make a good enough case for yourself, there's a much better chance you'll survive.

I swear if somebody calls this coaching, I'm gonna punch something.

unvote, vote poro

You know what? Rob's too scummy to be scum. There I said it.

This is a play that only a really good player can pull off. I don't think Rob is one of those.

Wow

No, not wow. Lowell is absolutely correct, you fail for even considering that.

Unvote
VOTE: Robbnva

Even if you are town, you're playing very anti-town. Unacceptable. I believe this is L-1.

[evilpacman18]

@ evil

I am not playing anti town, don't blame me for town's fail

xite made a weak case against me and my rebuttle was valid

I made a case vs him and his rebuttle was crap

I have pointed out his contradictions and scum behavior
I pointed out where he said he wasn't town
I pointed out where Dana laughed in your face saying you won't lynch him

you guys get tunnel visioned and you listened to Xite's garbage logic

so don't fucking blame me for your mistakes

man up and say "damn I made the mistake not robbnva"

bunch of idiots you are

Umad?

[evilpacman18]

vote: danakillsu

Lol.

[evilpacman18]

So dana is pretty much confirmed scum now. Anybody gonna check for possible affiliations with other players? I don't have the time.

[evilpacman18]

HA

dammit, stole my idea

[evilpacman18]

Try taking out your lungs. I believe that works :<.
I don't like the fact that everyone here died except for me:
Hiphop [3] (Dana, Lowell, Bunnylover)

Guys what are ya'll opinion on the reason their is two deaths.
Is it because their is a Vig or a SK role?
I am leaning on their been a SK role due to the kills that have been made at night.

It must be an SK unless our vig is an idiot.

[evilpacman18]

My top lynch choice is also Bunnylover. Looking at his early game play, he refused to post anything tangible or give an opinion on dana's scummy as hell D1 but then jumped on Dana as soon as the heat was off him on Day 2.

He voted for Wraith and then Furc in two successive posts right after he said "I will only post if I am more then sure the person is scum, and this is what I believe in."

"We have to believe in Dana claim, which is most likely true since I don't see anyone else countering it."

He's made about 8 different votes for 6 or 7 different people in two days. Flip-flopping at its finest.
VOTE: Bunnylover

[evilpacman18]

Try taking out your lungs. I believe that works :<.
I don't like the fact that everyone here died except for me:
Hiphop [3] (Dana, Lowell, Bunnylover)

Guys what are ya'll opinion on the reason their is two deaths.
Is it because their is a Vig or a SK role?
I am leaning on their been a SK role due to the kills that have been made at night.

It must be an SK unless our vig is an idiot.

First, pacman, what?
Seriously, what the hell?
Should I go quote the mod?
He's hit 2 scum if I recall correctly, I'd totally trade that for 1 power role
Wouldn't you?
Anyways, I do have a huge analysis coming that I started last night, but this is part of it;

Vote:Pacman

Bunny, I have to read your 1884, which I will try to do tomorrow

Oh, poro, I'm going to pm you

I will be V/LA Tomorrow sometime for my move (I'm driving so I will have absolutely no access for 2 days) and probably a little later until I get internet, I should be able to get on at least once a day until I get internet, but I apologize for any inconvenience this may cause

Facepalm

1. Thanks for telling us you're the SK. There's no proof that he killed the PR and yet you know it was the PR he killed at least once. You seem to be saying that one of the PR kills was you and the other was town.

2. My calling you, if you were a vig, an idiot is because of the inherently antitown risks of making a kill every night. Any smart vig wouldn't kill every night. And since you're obviously smart, you can't be the vig.

[evilpacman18]

Facepalm

1. Thanks for telling us you're the SK. There's no proof that he killed the PR and yet you know it was the PR he killed at least once. You seem to be saying that one of the PR kills was you and the other was town.

2. My calling you, if you were a vig, an idiot is because of the inherently antitown risks of making a kill every night. Any smart vig wouldn't kill every night. And since you're obviously smart, you can't be the vig.

K, lets just... entertain the fact that I'm the vig/sk.
Why would I be an idiot for killing every night?
Every time I was a vig I killed every night and you know what?
It got results.
Not to mention back when I was quiet and generally ignored and stuff, it meant me getting to hit one person each night that I thought was scum, and you know what? The ones that are ignored are generally right about that stuff. Just sayin.

In hindsight, obviously the killer is doing a good job, but killing half-lurkers when there was much scummier players and no dead PRs is a risk a pro-town killer doesn't take.

Why are we even having this discussion? Do you really think we have a vig and not an SK? (Make believe you're not the SK here)

[evilpacman18]

I don't think that's very telling. Every second kill has been the mafia, so I would only assume the second kill from last night was by SK or vig. That's just my take on it, though. Take that as you will.

Is this an examination of the order the flips are coming in?

[evilpacman18]

Playing to his wincon would require he go for the scummiest people as opposed to following his "feelings" which cloud logical judgement. Frankly, nhammen wasn't scummy at all. Benmage was. And on N3 Kise and UA were both pretty pro-town. This clearly is an SK we're dealing with, the fact that you're arguing it makes me even more convinced you are him.

I apologize for being short in my posts, I'm using an on-screen keyboard.

[evilpacman18]

Playing to his wincon would require he go for the scummiest people as opposed to following his "feelings" which cloud logical judgement. Frankly, nhammen wasn't scummy at all. Benmage was. And on N3 Kise and UA were both pretty pro-town. This clearly is an SK we're dealing with, the fact that you're arguing it makes me even more convinced you are him.

I apologize for being short in my posts, I'm using an on-screen keyboard.

Eh, whatever, believe what you want.
Just like I believe you're scum.

Still interested in seeing why. Hurry up with that post?

[evilpacman18]

We should look at our priorities today. Is it more important to kill the SK who's been helpful AND hurtful to town or is it more important to get rid of mafia? Their base is probably already dwindling with three gone. I'd rather continue the scumhunt today but we should aim for the SK pretty soon because if we miss with Xite then we still have to find him. What's the wincon for an SK? Does he win when all mafia are dead and he's alive or does the game continue till he's in the last 2?

[evilpacman18]

That was... logical OMGUS... >_<

[evilpacman18]

I wasn't even serious. I scrolled down to the bottom of the post and saw "Vote: Gorrad" and lol'd.

After reading it, it was a good case though.

[evilpacman18]

I guess all my posts from now on will be boring and serious since joking is scummy.
UNVOTE: Bunnylover
VOTE: Xite
because Gorrad's math is correct.

[evilpacman18]

I guess all my posts from now on will be boring and serious since joking is scummy.

I'm sorry, could you explain the joke? I missed it.

Cuz Gorrad has been going at Shanba a lot this game and then Shanba went and voted Gorrad so I was like lol OMGUS. Kidding of course as I hadn't even read the case. The first thing I think when I see someone voting for someone who's been attacking someone them is OMGUS, whether it is or isn't OMGUS. I'm prefectly capable of differentiating between what is and what isn't but my first reaction (as I usually read votes before I read posts) is to think OMGUS. Maybe I'm the only person that does that and that's why the joke didn't make sense (or it just wasn't funny, that's possible too). Either way, it was nothing more than a joke and it'd be ridiculous to carry on talking about it.

[evilpacman18]

"That's totally OMGUS."

"Evilpacman, that's fucking dumb. You're just using OMGUS to pin suspicion and gain town points."

"....uh....I was.....totally joking, yeah, totally joking!"

"No you weren't."

"Psh yeah right...just...move on to......xite....cuz....."

This order is incorrect. My Xite vote should have come eariler but I got distracted by this whole joke thing. But I did explain myself after my Xite vote which you conveniently left out. Was the explanation inadequate for you or are you just trying to keep this going after it should be over?

[evilpacman18]

Mod: Votecount please

I'll keep my vote on Xite. As Gorrad has already proved, killing the SK is more important.

[evilpacman18]

Evilpacman: In pure speculatory terms, do you believe a hypothetical SK in this game to have NK immunity? This is relevant.

NK stands for Night Kill?

[evilpacman18]

Why would an SK be immune to being killed at night?

[evilpacman18]

I'm pretty new, this is only my second Mafia game ever... (though I've played lots of bastardly games of Werewolf. They weren't serious games.)

[evilpacman18]

I guess it's POSSIBLE that he could be immune to it. I have no reason to believe either way.

[evilpacman18]

Ok.

Why? This is relevant.

[evilpacman18]

I apologize.

Going from page 76, I'm kinda wondering what happened from today's start to know. It looks like Gorrad v. Shanba. v. Wraith. v. Xite threw everything off. That's why I haven't posted, I've been keeping up but I don't want anything to do and have nothing to do with that argument.

Day 1, I will be honest, I am totally useless and this was one of the 3 first games I joined. I was trying to see how people play, and posted when I had something to say. So I can understand what you mean by anything tangible, but I did give my opinion on Dana scumminess on post 7 on my ISO. Is it good and a lot? No, but it is my opinion on Dana for a little and I gave just my opinion. As for the Warith to Furclow thing, did you not read my post when I voted them? Furclow was been desperate and stupid. Oh I'm a VT, no wait I'm a doctor now. Your telling me you didn't find that stupid? Wraith I posted that WIFOM situation practically where he was only trying to get people not to vote him and townie cred because he apparently knew Furclow would flip town.
Day 2, I was suspicious of Dana in the beginning because I forgot that DP had faked claimed Cop, and that he actually got an invisitgation off. After I read the last 5 pages of Day 1, I realized my mistake and understood why Dana invistigated that person therefore my suspicion was not on him. I never jumped on Dana, I was questioning him as an other person would have. About the votes I voted for CA because I agreed with Wraith ISO, then Gorrad showed me where Wraith posted that he self voted to protect himself, so I switched over. I don't find anything strange about that switch. I hammered Mysterio. My reason, I honestly don't have a god damn clue what I was doing. I feel like a freaking idiot because 1) We didn't get him to claim and 2) I practically just set my lynch up.
Are you saying that if I claimed Doctor (in no way is that a claim this is just a example) as scum, and no one counter claims, you will still be up for my lynch? If someone comes out and claims a PR that is big, I expect someone to counter claim or otherwise I'm going to believe them. Now I should have expected that they wouldn't CC because it was Day 1 and they didn't want to out themselves.
Btw it was only 5 <_<.

Preview Edit: I raised the question of SK or Vig because I'm 100% sure their is a SK, and no one else has brought it up yet although I am sure everyone suspected it. Their is another reason too, but I rather not post it as it will lose its meaning.

Though I must agree, there's very little chance that there isn't an SK, 100% is a bit much without knowing something the rest of us don't. I'd say I'm only at about 95% and then I have some logical reason to believe it's Xite though I'm not gonna add a percentage to that. The problem with the other section of this post is it's not really a defense, it's more of an outline. You told us what you were doing on those days and made up for some mistakes that you made but you didn't really provide any reasons for some of the scummy things you've said.

WILL SOMEBODY PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME WHAT WIFOM IS.

No really, I've read the page on the wiki on it like 3 times and I still don't get it.

I don't like the fact that everyone here died except for me:
Hiphop [3] (Dana, Lowell, Bunnylover)

What are you insinuating here? You do know hiphop died and is town, right?

The vig/sk is killing off lurkers, nitwits.
- nhammen
- benmage
- kise/ua
- baby spice/lowell

In the case of baby spice, I'm willing to bet he went with dana's first day 4 post. But other than that, he's killing off lurkers, which is not a thing an sk would do.

Um benmage is the only person on that list that lurked.

Aight, here we go.

The crux of my case is something like: "I think nearly every popular case we've had this game has been crap, and Gorrad has pushed all those popular cases. Gorradtown should be able to distinguish those crap cases from the good cases" but I suppose you're going to want more detail than that.

Firstly, there was the Frank lynch. Frankly (pardon the pun), I never really understood that wagon. There was a lot of bluster and badlogic from Frank, but despite asking I never got anyone to explain to me why. Gorrad is no exception. Check his catch up post if anything, reading through it, you'd expect him to be on Dana or Wraith (I think his points on Wraith are bad, but I'll get to that in a bit. The important point here is that He beings up more points against Wraith and reacts more strongly to the points he's brought up than against). To me, it looks like there was a kind of whispering campaign against Frank that made him an easy target; lots of vague accusations and a player who's not looking like he's strong enough to counter them, and then your late jump on the easiest wagon in the game... eh.

Day 2, though, I really didn't like. Again I didn't understand why you were going after Wraith, and what's more a lot of his posts had a genuineness and a townfeel to it. I've given a few concrete examples in earlier posts but I can go find them again if you like. Given I was pretty convinced he was town, I wanted to understand the case - but I never felt you made one. You piggybacked on a load of other people's suspicions and tried to drive the wagon without giving a reason why (beyond X POST IS SUPA SCUMMY". And teve the stuff in your catchup post - well, most of that "DIRECTING THA COP" kinda crap is a nulltell.

Seriously. No scum pulls that kind of gambit. I have never, not once seen scum pretending to be newbies to propose something that they shouldn't. It's like when a newbie says we should no lynch. It's just not scummy.

Given that I don't have you down as an "anti-town always = scummy" type, I don't see how you can honestly believe in your case on Wraith. And Robb, again, follows the same pattern. A weak player, an easy lynch, no thought, no actual scumhunting going on.

All this builds into a pattern of behaviour. It looks to me like you're looking for the easy lynch instead of scumhunting - you've made 3 posts containing anything I would classify as any sort of scumhunting (your initial and two posts where you address the wagons.) And I still haven't forgotten that dismissal of my prozac case - that was so strange to me. You think a connection to dead scum and a pattern of lurking is less strong than a bunch of newbish actions and "detracting from the town"? We're not playing hunt the bad players, we're playing mafia. We're scumhunting. I hated hated hated that you tried to discredit me by saying I was tunneling. Seriously. I have been looking at many players and drawing conclusions on all of them - I have a multitiude of townreads. But you? You just have your wraithread and you're happy with that.

It's particularly egregious when the cop died. My first intinct was "ok dana's scum", and my second one was "did the cop breadcrumb any results? Better go check." So I did. I don't expect everyone to do that, but I do expect experienced players to. Similarly, when the scum died, it seems like you haven't looked at all. There's so much potential information in this game, and you're just faffing about pushing the same damn case again and again on different players. You haven't looked at dead scum to try and discern info from them. You haven't questioned anyone at any given time except your top suspect. There seems to be no attempt to get a read on anyone. Look at Reckoner's interaction with me early game, where he questions me and then backs off. What's happened to that kind of stuff? Nothing in your posts indicates anything more to me than scum who just wants to coast to victory.

Prozac is a horrible lurker (almost as bad as benmage was) who has, recently, spent more time defending himself than engaging in the game. But you're scummier.

Vote: Gorrad

The whole thing with my making a joke about this post didn't really give me a chance to say that I really appreciate this sort of read. It's not too flooded with lingo or theory, there's a good amount of reads based on his meta but you don't overdo it, etc. Very thorough and convincing.

There's just so much scumminess from this day it's unbelievable.

Frankly, at this point in the day I thought everybody except Bunnylover was doing really well. Or at least sounded pretty pro-town.

Uh short, it was a gambit I thought might work in getting slip-ups/reads on a bunch of voters, but in the end I've realized it doesn't work. So I dropped the subject. I don't know why you keep insisting on bringing it up.

This is a very weak defense. I'm beginning to lean towards you as scum out of you, Gorrad, and Shanba (I'm gonna be surprised if at least one of you isn't scum).

I'll have to iso Wraith pretty soon, I haven't been paying much attention to him, unfortunately.

Evilpacman: In pure speculatory terms, do you believe a hypothetical SK in this game to have NK immunity? This is relevant.

I'd still like to know what you would have said if I had given a more "satisfactory" answer.

Yes, I meant wickedest. /facepalm. Sorry, I was tired. The only reason Dana was low on my scumlist was because of the claim. He WAS a long way down my list because I believed the claim! He was an uncountered cop! You know the whole 'one town for one scum is always a good trade' thing? Well I figured if Dana was lying he'd have been countered!

I don't think it would have been good for Kise to claim so early. Judging by his play, I doubt he had got any guilties yet and Mysterio was dead so scum would have taken him out in a second.

improved my gorrad case? Sorry but speaking frankly, the cases on both bunnylover and xite are shit.

Lolno. This is so wrong. They're by far the best two cases we have. What does this make your Gorrad case?

Actually, I'm slightly baffled at this point. How can you people believe these cases you have are strong? Honestly, either there's somethign I just don't get or everyone is playing terribly. No one, with the exception of wickedest, has said practically anything at all that I agree with, and the way my cases have fallen flat baffles me, because I know they're good cases. This stuff would normally have people jumping up and down in anticipation, or at least acknowledgement - I had to post about that prozac case several times before anyone read it, and even then it seems a substantial number of people just ignored it. Am I being dumb? Are people just not paying attention? What the hell is going on?

You're almost too sure that your cases are perfect. I'm thinking you might possibly be trying to start a bus.

FoS: Shanba

Gorrad's play is looking worse and worse to me. First:

"Wraith is accusing someone of lurking while 'lurking' himself. I'll suddenly fall back on the case against him that I discarded yesterday."

Then:

"I'm not scum, Prozac is. FOCUS ON PROZAC"

Really, really not liking this.

This is almost as bad as DH's post about me.

Almost.

Also, evilpacman is partly scum for 2 things (there is more, but I don't have the time)
1) He is CONVINCED there is an SK, and is trying to distract the town from scumhunting with SK hunting
2) He is CONVINCED that I'm the SK with little to no evidence that I am. Seriously, he's using me making a simple almost obvious assumption as his reason for thinking I'm the SK

I can't wait till you have the time.

1. I am not trying to DISTRACT. At this point, SK hunting is more important. I would rather the town SK hunt right now because it will keep more town alive. Yes I am CONVINCED there is an SK. You aren't?

2. I'm not as CONVINCED that you're the SK but I believe you are for reasons I've already outlined including the one slip about the SK killing PRs even though scum could have killed those PRs that I can't believe more people didn't jump on.

Someone's going to have to enlighten me as to why Bunnylover is a bad wagon.

QFT

Gorrad's play is looking worse and worse to me. First:

"Wraith is accusing someone of lurking while 'lurking' himself. I'll suddenly fall back on the case against him that I discarded yesterday."

Then:

"I'm not scum, Prozac is. FOCUS ON PROZAC"

Really, really not liking this.

1) Heh. Yeah, right. If this was true, I'd be voting you. I was just pointing out the irony.

2) How are you getting this from the quote you cited? Seriously. I can't understand it.

2. To be honest, the more and more I read it the more and more I doubt that's actually what you meant. I think I confused myself with the language in it, because for some reason it reads just like that to me. *headache*

Lol ok that iso may be unnecessary. There's beginning to be more than enough evidence to lynch you just on today.

Still want a definition of WIFOM

Wraith has tried to jump on Gorrad's, Xite's, and Bunnylover's wagon today. Appeasing everybody? Oh and singer so he sounds original a bit.

[evilpacman18]

Wraith has tried to jump on Gorrad's, Xite's, and Bunnylover's wagon today. Appeasing everybody? Oh and singer so he sounds original a bit.

Wait...what about singer? All I got from Wraith was:

Singer has been pretty townie all game (flinter probably less so but that's not the point).

So now I'm looking for it and I can't find it... I must have confused something somewhere. Maybe I was reading a post thinking it was him but it wasn't him or something. Idk I really have no idea what happened and I'm very confused now. I coulda sworn I saw him say some negative things about her....

[evilpacman18]

1) Going from page 76, I'm kinda wondering what happened from today's start to know. It looks like Gorrad v. Shanba. v. Wraith. v. Xite threw everything off. That's why I haven't posted, I've been keeping up but I don't want anything to do and have nothing to do with that argument.

2) WILL SOMEBODY PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME WHAT WIFOM IS.

3) Um benmage is the only person on that list that lurked.

4) The whole thing with my making a joke about this post didn't really give me a chance to say that I really appreciate this sort of read. It's not too flooded with lingo or theory, there's a good amount of reads based on his meta but you don't overdo it, etc. Very thorough and convincing.

5) Frankly, at this point in the day I thought everybody except Bunnylover was doing really well. Or at least sounded pretty pro-town.

6) This is a very weak defense. I'm beginning to lean towards you as scum out of you, Gorrad, and Shanba (I'm gonna be surprised if at least one of you isn't scum).

I'll have to iso Wraith pretty soon, I haven't been paying much attention to him, unfortunately.

7) I'd still like to know what you would have said if I had given a more "satisfactory" answer.

8) I don't think it would have been good for Kise to claim so early. Judging by his play, I doubt he had got any guilties yet and Mysterio was dead so scum would have taken him out in a second.

9) Lolno. This is so wrong. They're by far the best two cases we have. What does this make your Gorrad case?

10) You're almost too sure that your cases are perfect. I'm thinking you might possibly be trying to start a bus.

FoS: Shanba

11) This is almost as bad as DH's post about me.

Almost.

12)

Also, evilpacman is partly scum for 2 things (there is more, but I don't have the time)
1) He is CONVINCED there is an SK, and is trying to distract the town from scumhunting with SK hunting
2) He is CONVINCED that I'm the SK with little to no evidence that I am. Seriously, he's using me making a simple almost obvious assumption as his reason for thinking I'm the SK

I can't wait till you have the time.

1. I am not trying to DISTRACT. At this point, SK hunting is more important. I would rather the town SK hunt right now because it will keep more town alive. Yes I am CONVINCED there is an SK. You aren't?

2. I'm not as CONVINCED that you're the SK but I believe you are for reasons I've already outlined including the one slip about the SK killing PRs even though scum could have killed those PRs that I can't believe more people didn't jump on.

13)

Someone's going to have to enlighten me as to why Bunnylover is a bad wagon.

QFT


14) Lol ok that iso may be unnecessary. There's beginning to be more than enough evidence to lynch you just on today.

15) Still want a definition of WIFOM

16) Wraith has tried to jump on Gorrad's, Xite's, and Bunnylover's wagon today. Appeasing everybody? Oh and singer so he sounds original a bit.

1) Excuse as to why he was lurking (Not a V/LA excuse either. I hate these because it shows he was ACTIVE lurking) Also remember those 4 names.
2) Already did on like, D2... but eh.
Have you ever seen the princess bride?
If so remember the scene where he has the two wine glasses?
That's WIFOM. If not, then i'll explain it differently.
3) I think you need to read a little further back.
4) I'll come back to this.
5) Aaaaand? This looks like fluff.
6) Setting up a group of 3 to lynch. Remember these names.
7) Okay? Again, looks like you're trying to throw suspicion on Gorrad. Person number 2
8) More fluff. What a player "should have done" has no need to be said until end game unless there's something relevant to another case, which there isn't
9) Wait.... what about 4? Major contradiction. Appeasement huh?
10) Lol, name number 3
Just curious when he's gonna try to call me scum, because he's just active player hunting, which is a scum tactic as much (if not more) as lurker player hunting (because there's a lot more "evidence")
11) Fluff again?
12) Well, here's just a few things about you from one post. Is that enough for now?
12-1) I'm not completely convinced. Also you can't get ANY information for tomorrow by hunting an SK, because there's not links to him whatsoever, not to mention it's a 1 in however many players are left shot to hit the SK, and if we don't I'm sure you're going to keep trying tomorrow right? So yes, DISTRACT.
12-2) Again, that was an assumption that ANYONE could have made. It was a simple look at modposts because scum are not going to kill their partners off at night (unless it's some odd tactic and actually allowed by the mod, but I've never seen it before) and they were both posted on the mods list of kills in the same spot. It was not a slip as much as you like to believe it's one. If you go back and read modposts, you should be smart enough to see that.
13) Uhm ok? Because there's better ones out there right now?
14) Fluffy fluff again.
15) Already gave you one. More fluff.
16) I think this has already been pointed out as wrong.

Okay, so points on you from JUST THIS POST.
-5 out of 16 of his points are fluff.
That's almost a 3rd of your masspost.
Only slightly scummy though.

- Active player hunting

- Being positive of something that isn't assured

- Trying to lynch something that's more of a threat to scum at this point (considering he's hit 2 of them already)

- Distracting the town by trying to find that threat to scum.

- A huge contradiction that shows he is disingenuous with his posts.

I'm not sure if I'd prefer a pacman lynch or a demonhybrid lynch.
Probably pacman, though.

Unvote, Vote pacman

1. Yes it is an excuse to why I was lurking... so? I'm pretty sure lurking is a nulltell if anything.

2. No I haven't seen it but it's been explained well enough already and I heard a great example of it on the latest Fringe.

3. I'll just leave this one.

4. I'll come back to this.

5. Obviously we have different ideas on what is important and what isn't.

6. Lol no I'm not setting anything up. Wraith is on the scummy side but I'm still on the fence about and Gorrad and Shanba are both pretty town to me. If Wraith isn't scum, I'm not gonna be looking at either of them because of it.

7. Actually I just wanted to know why he asked.... If that sounds like I'm trying to throw suspicion on him to you, you should probably change something about how you read between the lines on everybody's posts since you come to so many incorrect, illogical conclusions.

8. Again, we disagree on what is and isn't fluff.

9. Um ok not really. You came to another of your incorrect, illogical conclusions in number 4. You just decided that my response to his post meant that I agreed with him. Far from it, Gorrad is a town read in my book as I've already said. I chose my words very carefully there to AVOID people thinking that I agreed with Shanba but obviously it wasn't good enough for you so let me put it in a way even you can't get incorrect implications out of:
I DON'T AGREE WITH THE ARGUMENT, I JUST THINK IT'S WELL-WRITTEN. If anything in my post is fluff, it's post 4. It was nothing more than a harmless compliment.

10. Don't even begin to think I have some sort of tunnel-vision. My post was all about this day. Who's been doing the most posting in day 5? The "3 names" you keep seeing in my post, Gorrad, Shanba, and Wraith. I'm focused on them today because they're being the most vocal today, not because I have some motive to lynch all of them.

11. No.

12-1. Obviously this argument won't go anywhere. I still think it's mathematically more pro-town to SK-hunt. I think you're the SK anyway and enough people think you're scum or at least scummy for you to be an appropriate lynch for scumhunting AND SK hunting.

12-2. Wasn't it you who told singer that the mod would never be so transparent as to post the same kill order every time?

13. Yes, you.

14. Only about as fluffy as any FoS which I'm pretty sure is never considered fluff.

15. It wasn't necessary, granted. You can call that one fluff if you want.

16. Just the part about singer. He's definitely been supportive of jumping on Gorrad's, Bunnylover's and your wagon just today.

[evilpacman18]

I'm staying on the Xite wagon. I don't have much more to add to this day unless something new happens. Avoiding prod.

Also, just for you, Xite, THIS IS FLUFF.

[evilpacman18]

Xite
Wraith
DemonHybrid

[evilpacman18]

Well since I believe Xite is the SK my third scum choice is a toss-up. I don't really have one.

[evilpacman18]

Have you even mentioned singer once before today? Why now?

[evilpacman18]

Have you even mentioned singer once before today? Why now?

How come everyone freaks out when a read changes after a flip?

She's been lurky before today. I couldn't get a good read of her, so it was nullish, somewhat scummy. She sorta active lurked and posted a ton of fluff the past few days.

Can you tell us which flip that is and why your read on her changed because of that one flip?

[evilpacman18]

VOTE: DemonHybrid
Why would singer have Xite killed right after pushing a lynch on him and why do you think that scumsinger had Xite and not Gorrad killed? Especially since the Xite wagon was the biggest for a while yesterday so he'd be likely to get lynched soon.

[evilpacman18]

VOTE: DemonHybrid
Why would singer have Xite killed right after pushing a lynch on him and why do you think that scumsinger had Xite and not Gorrad killed? Especially since the Xite wagon was the biggest for a while yesterday so he'd be likely to get lynched soon.

You act as if you know who killed who.

I think Prozac's isn't the only post you need broken down. I'm saying that YOU act as if you know who killed who. You placed the Xite kill under singer without giving a reason and my above post says why, if singer IS scum, she probably WOULDN'T have Xite killed. I don't believe singer is scum so I don't even have guesses for which kill was which but I'm saying if singer is scum, I'd guess the Gorrad kill was the scum kill.

[evilpacman18]

I never said anything about someone killing someone. Holy poisoned wine, Batman!

Oh wait so you're voting singer just because she had an incorrect read on Xite?

[evilpacman18]

I never said anything about someone killing someone. Holy poisoned wine, Batman!

Oh wait so you're voting singer just because she had an incorrect read on Xite?

I know this was directed at DH and I don't know about DH's reasons, but I have to say that this certainly isn't the reason for my vote. If anyone wants to know the reason for my vote, I first invite you to go back and look at singer's reasoning for the Xite vote yesterday. This is a good place to start.

I don't have any scumread on you at all but isn't an unnecessary defense the exact same way Dana's D1 started?

[evilpacman18]

Sorry about the vagueness:

I felt like the singer pushing Xite at the end of yesterday was a town vs scum sort of deal (despite Xite not really paying attention to her). Her case doesn't hold up at all; while Xite WAS scummy (and, to be honest, I wasn't really paying that much attention to singer either), singer's case was full of a good amount of fluff and subjective playstyle grievances instead of hard evidence.

Also, her quickvote onto Bunnylover doesn't really help her case. Then a switch onto Wraith, which happens to be the easiest lynch for today in my opinion, scum or not. I suppose I was referring to most of the flips in general, sorry if I'm not giving that much information today. I'm pretty out of it today with a migraine. You think about a case, expect everyone else to know and forget to post it.

It's good if you actually read posts.

No, it's good if you actually understand what I'm saying. The first paragraph of this case does one of three things.
1. Implies that singer had to have been killed by Xite
2. Implies that singer somehow knew Xite was town
3. Nothing

I'm beginning to think it's 3. I have this meta of you that I respect a lot because of you in SHM3 but I could be wrong. Maybe you're not that good. The first paragraph of your case is useless. Those aren't scumtells, those are bad nulltells, and singer didn't do any of them anyway. And if Xite WAS scummy as you say (and I agree he was) then how is her case weak?

[evilpacman18]

Lynching DH now > massprod.

[evilpacman18]

I looked through both cases, the DemonHybrid case bores the hell out of me and the fact that Wraith has now jumped on it (no suprises there) it is one that totally disinterests me. The singer wagon though interests me more. I said I would look through it a few pages back and failed to do so. However antihero did have a point in those pages and the first few posts in 88 where he decides its not worth defending go a long way. I still prefer my Wraith vote but the singer wagon is an interesting one.

To be honest, over half of my DH case is a RECK case. I suggest you iso RECK as well and see how scummy he was. DH has played better but still pretty scummy and RECK was just awful.

[evilpacman18]

Hi.

I was going to post Friday/Saturday, got a headache from school work. Took a pain killer. I am now encountering some very annoying side effects from a pain killer (yeah, what the fuck). I hope they'll be over by tomorrow as I was not able to do anything productive the entire day. Back to bed.

Lol just replace out >_<

[evilpacman18]

When is the deadline?

[evilpacman18]

I believe singer is at L-1. Should I hammer? There's really nothing more we can do with this day.

[evilpacman18]

I don't suspect singer but I feel like her flip could be the most helpful thing to town right now.

[evilpacman18]

I won't be around until real late tonight so maybe somebody else will have to do the honors.

[evilpacman18]

Will hammer in approx 3 hours.

[evilpacman18]

unvote, vote: singer

inb4 VT

[evilpacman18]

What's a mason?

[evilpacman18]

Oh see if you had said neighbors I woulda known.

[evilpacman18]

I already told you. I didn't have any suspicions of her but felt that the town had stagnated and that even what I thought was a mislynch would benefit us just by giving us some new information to work with. There was no changing her lynch anyway at L-1 with the deadline coming up.

[evilpacman18]

Definitely for the DH lynch.

Vote: DemonHybrid

I believe this is L-1. We already have a VT claim from him. What's kingmaker?

[evilpacman18]

Oh is that like endgame?

[evilpacman18]

I believe he was talking about your OMGUS vote on me a while back, not your vote on flinter just now.

MME is really holding this game back.

[evilpacman18]

It's a bit redundant at this point, but I, too, am a VT.

[evilpacman18]

Wtf are you talking about now?

[evilpacman18]

Why do you know how many scum there are?

[evilpacman18]

I'm pretty sure flinter is the only remaining viable option for SK.

[evilpacman18]

Ugh... I'd suggest just lynching MME if it wouldn't most likely seal the town's loss.

I'm not sure what to say, this is super inconvenient. I'd be up for letting Poro replace him, sounds like the best idea. We're not too far from needing the very, very last option.

[evilpacman18]

Alright I'm gonna gather all my information and do some thinking

Confirmed information

1. DH is scum and will be lynched today.
2. Ether can not be the SK and could only possibly be scum if we have more than one scum left.
3. I'm town.
4. The player count is either 4 town, 1 scum, 1 SK or 3 town, 2 scum, 1 SK.

So this leaves flinter, Anti, and Wraith for the SK possibilities and if there's more than one scum left, the second one would be anyone besides me, who is town, and DH, who is the first scum. Lynching Ether at any point before the final three is bad. So is lynching Wraith because his reads don't match up with the confirmed SK kills (benmage and nhammen). I can see SKlinter and SKAnti both making those two kills according to their play. As for scum, I don't really have an opinion on whether or not there could be more than DH. Guess we'll find out tomorrow after we lynch DH today. Ideally, the SK and (possible) remaining scum eliminate each other tonight.



I hoped that post would be more helpful but reading over it again it seems like a whole bunch of obvious information.

Also, DH, now you think I'm not scum but I'm either opportunistic town or the SK? And yet you never brought up the possibility of me being SK before just now and you've been trying to lynch me? At this point, voting me, since you apparently think I'm likely to be town, would be dumb. Should have brought that up earlier, or did you just make it up to appease the new player?

[evilpacman18]

Reading is fundamental.

Lol missed that. My bad. You're still scum appeasing Ether though.

How can you be "confirmed" that I'm scum? And why, after my back and forth with flinter and my shutting down of her case?

I'm about as confirmed as I can be without having solid proof. Just based on the way you and Reck acted the whole game. Hopefully that answers Ether's question too.

[evilpacman18]

Forgot the second "

Fixed. -Mod

[evilpacman18]

I think we can all agree that you're not the SK simply because MME couldn't have made kills while he wasn't here.

DH: Which case? The case for why you're town that was aimed at flinter?

[evilpacman18]

Here's an idea. Everybody give their choices for remaining two scum (scummiest first, next scummiest second) and the SK.

Scum

DH
ugh... um... erm... Anti

SK

flinter

[evilpacman18]

Very true.

[evilpacman18]

All 3 ways actually.

[evilpacman18]

The suspense is killing me....

Great post, flinter.

[evilpacman18]

vote nolynch

<- protown choice. Townies can still force this. I won't explain it.

uh. yeah you will

[evilpacman18]

Can you do that with math? Just outline the scenario you're imagining where a no lynch now helps town win.

The rest of this post assumes there's 2 mafia.

Luckiest scenario: with 1 scum left after DH dies, they take each other out.
Town can't win without a certain amount of luck. If they don't take each other out then either the remaining mafia player will have to eliminate the SK while the SK eliminates a town member or the SK eliminates the mafia player while the mafia player eliminates a town member. Frankly, one of those three scenarios happening is MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH more likely than both of them taking out town players. So I don't see where your no lynch would help because it would leave us with 2 scum, 1 SK, and 3 town at the end of the day and then either

2 scum, 2 town,

1 scum, 1 SK, 2 town,

or 1 scum, 3 town after the night. If that remaining scum isn't DH, there's a big chance town could mislynch for the lose.

[evilpacman18]

uh wait I'm confused. Who's Yosarian?

[evilpacman18]

...

Ether is... two people?

[evilpacman18]

@EPM: Etherdent is a yos/ether hydra.

now define hydra.

[evilpacman18]

Since we're lynching DH today, we can ignore all the options that aren't lynch scum. Thanks for that post Wraith, that's what I was looking for.

[evilpacman18]

flinter: what reason do you have to believe the SK is bulletproof? There's no evidence of that whatsoever since every night has had two kills.

[evilpacman18]

aaaaaaand... back to L-1.

[evilpacman18]

Alright, somebody hammer. It's the best we can do. We all have our opinions and we all know our wincons and have a much better idea of what we'll need to do to achieve theme. For me and my town mates, the best thing to do is figure out what happens tonight and work off it. We already know we'll need some luck. We've already put our opinions out. Not much more to do I don't think. Ether, wanna do the honors?

[evilpacman18]

A_A

[evilpacman18]

In that case:

GODDAMMIT ANTI

[evilpacman18]

I aimed for Anti in case he was bluffing and I figured if he wasn't and I didn't get my kill, I could argue that DH must have been the last scum and that Anti was the only remaining anti-town player.

I actually wasn't aware that mafia had the option to no-kill, I thought they didn't.

[evilpacman18]

I had a lot of fun with this game, I'm just REALLY disappointed that we lost because of such a silly reason.

Btw, Town MVP: Xite

[evilpacman18]

I can't believe we couldn't figure out the SK for all that time. Every single one of our guesses was off. Xite, flinter, Gorrad, Shanba, everybody we speculated was wrong.

[evilpacman18]

Ugh omg. Can't believe he killed me because he was aiming for town -___________________-

[evilpacman18]

Hey, at least I like my bussing skills....I fail and I make the other person look TOO town, haha

High-5.

[evilpacman18]

Anti needs to get in here so I can /raeg at him.

[evilpacman18]

DH got pretty mad at me about that hammer too :p

[evilpacman18]

Anti if you hadn't claimed I would have killed flinter and you probably would have won.

[evilpacman18]

Trying to put myself in a town mentality to answer that, I'd put it at about 8, lol. Can't say for sure whether or not I would have caught all the things wrong with your posts if I wasn't part of the informed minority though. That's why I don't blame Xite for defending you and even have him as my Town MVP pick.

[evilpacman18]

BBM, your setup was fine. The scumteam had lots of internal problems. CA/Anti ruining us and dana playing a bad game both have nothing to do with the setup.

So pacman, you/JDodge should have looked scummier, you might have had a chance at winning.

This is why I'm so mad about losing.

[evilpacman18]

Btw BBM thanks for letting me join, even with your inital skepticism. I really appreciate it considering this was so fun.

[evilpacman18]

I want a "Best ________" badge How do I get those?

[evilpacman18]

Reading the Mafia QT:

1) Damn, I've never seen anyone post WoTs in a QT until @.@
2) Demonhybrid on N2 in the QT:

Let's keep the SK alive for a while if we ever do find out who he is; he can help us kill town twice as fast.

That would have been helpful if we had any idea it was you.

MAN WHY'D YOU HAVE TO KILL ME MAAAAAAAAAAN

[evilpacman18]

Actually Ether just said that... they... would have voted Anti. So with my vote, Ether's, and Wraith's on Anti, I would have won.

[evilpacman18]

Kinda depended on who Anti killed.

[evilpacman18]

Town pulled out a fairly undeserved win in the end.

QFT

[evilpacman18]

A lot of people say they like being town better than any other alignment but I don't get that. I think it's so much easier to be scum. I've always wanted to be a third party though.

[evilpacman18]

I play like I'm town when I'm scum though. Like a lot of people I think put too much effort into how they interact with their scumbuddies. I just play like I'm town. I'll look for and catch scumtells on town players and my buddies, ignoring my alliance with them. And since being scum makes it so easy to catch tells, I think it's a lot easier to look town as scum. (I've never been lynched as scum, always get lynched as town)

[evilpacman18]

I nominated Ether for best replacement