Mafia 119: MURDER AT HOTEL DEATH(GAME OVER)

[evilpacman18]

Hello. Just got home and I'm gonna get settled in and do some reading.

Until then, VOTE: vollkan

I will explain.

[evilpacman18]

Vote: evilpacman18

explain now

LOL

Hello. Just got home and I'm gonna get settled in and do some reading.

Until then, VOTE: vollkan

I will explain.

This makes no sense. If your reason for suspecting me is strong enough as to justify an insta-vote off the back of (apparently) no reading, then I can't see any circumstance under which you also wouldn't be willing to explain your vote right away. Not assigning any points for this, yet, since I can't see any scum motivation for it; it's just weird basically. That said, I nonetheless want to know your reason for delaying.

My reason is that I wasn't delaying. I had something to do and didn't post the whole argument, I just wanted to put an opening post up to let people know I'm here.

You gotta admit it was a good one too, especially with the number of people on your jock (see above).

SO. In a nutshell, my case on you is that you replace actual scumhunting with just quoting people and applying terms to everything they say and then dictating whether or not those terms are scumslips or not. However, most of these terms can't really be considered scumtells anymore. Let's take lurking for instance. It was a scumtell then people caught on, added a turn to it, scum wised up, and now lurking is practically a town tell because scum know that lurking was a scum tell so they make sure to avoid doing it. We can get into how they can now lurk because it's a town tell and how it's all just WIFOM but I wanna take my argument a different way instead of just saying "all vollkan does is WIFOM" even though I could probably make that work.

He doesn't scum hunt, just iso him. His posts generally consist of two things.

1. This is scummy because term A and term B
2. Question I want you to answer so that I have more terms to apply to your next posts.

Obviously most of his posts stray from this skeleton in some way or another but a very base level, that's been his play this whole game.

That's a subjective justification which is inherently incapale of refutation.

However, I can't see any reasonable basis for thinking that your personal vibe reaction to an emoticon would constitute "bleedingly obvious" evidence of Jack being town.

I've seen traps like this before. Big words and lots of unreadable walls of text trick many players into believe someone is town. I mean [sarcasm]OBVIOUSLY NO SCUM WOULD GO TO THE TROUBLE OF WRITING LOTS OF WORDS TO MAKE THEMSELF SOUND MORE TOWN[/sarcasm].

Espeonage is making perfectt sense.

Seriously? Or just because it happens to be you that he thinks is obvtown?

An example of my second point above.

What if you and Jack are scum buddies, I just thought I might throw out that possibility.

Why are you throwing that out?

Since he's always so eager to talk about how all these terms and actions are scumtells, here's one:

Isn't over-questioning people a scum tell? IIRC on the wiki.

Also that numbers system is pathetic.

Anything else? I'll answer any questions.

[evilpacman18]

Policy lynch then?

[evilpacman18]

1) Not even an attempt to defend your case?
2) Why do you think a policy lynch of me would be pro-town?
3) There's something ironic about the fact that you join this game and attack me for 'not scumhunting' and yet the sum total of your contribution thus far is an argument for my policy lynch.

1. Nobody has asked me to until you.
2. Because your meta is decidedly anti-town.
3. I'll admit I was unaware of your [moar sarcasm]godly history[/moar sarcasm] and that it was against the rules to suspect you so when I wrote it, it was scumhunting, not a policy lynch suggestion. I'll support a lynch of you for any reason, however, because of number 2. Your meta allows you to get away with not giving opinions. Labeling stuff and giving it a number and then "interrogating" as your entire meta means it would be basically impossible for you to slip, and very easy for you to stay in meta for the duration of a game. A policy lynch on you is fine because you're more of a threat than you actually help.

How much of the gmae had you read by the point at which you voted me?

bout half.

[evilpacman18]

We should just lynch a2rudeboy. pacman possibly a 2nd. Who did he replace?

Lol why is this? Cuz you don't like my case?

[evilpacman18]

Vollkan's at least trying to hunt scum.

We're obviously looking at two different vollkans.

[evilpacman18]

Oh is that what you're waiting for?

[evilpacman18]

vote: evilpacman18

Still no attempt to do anything beyond go for a policy lynch on Vollkan.

Why do you think pacman is scum?

I ask because my read of him so far is just stupid newbie. Pushing policy lynches is stupid and anti-town, but town do it often enough that I really don't think it can be considered scummy. Conversely, if I put myself in the shoes of scum-pacman, I really can't fathom how he could seroiusly think that a policy lynch on me would be a good strategy; if he came in and pushed it on Jack, for instance, I think there would be a viable scum strategy (doesn't make it scummy, though, for the reasons in my second sentence), but I can't work out how, if he was scum trying to get me lynched, he could seriously imagine that a policy lynch of me would have any prospect of succeeding.

Fuck you. I may be a lot of things but stupid is not one of them. I've already explained my reasons for why I think you're scum and why even if you're not a policy lynch is a good idea and you haven't managed to convince me that I'm wrong. Don't give me that shit just because you disagree, fucking elitist bastard.

[evilpacman18]

UNVOTE: vollkan
I'll come back to this when people are more willing to listen.
VOTE: Jack
just iso'd him. 74 posts and next to no content. Most of his posts are useless one liners. Definitely not pro-town play.

[evilpacman18]

Two days already? Content when I wake up.

[evilpacman18]

Hi Anti

Vollkan is still scum and you're all blind. In PD vs. LMP (which is a rather annoying argument to read, might I add) PD is scum or neither are scum.

Looking through PD's iso, I noticed that he refused to vote for Espeonage the entire day and was quite integral in getting him NOT lynched like he should have been. He did vote ESP only after the wagon had let off steam. On that same day, he was very hypocritical, jumping on the neighbor thing asking for claims when he had got on jack about rolefishing slightly before that.

I think it's safe to say PD is scum just based on his D1 associations with Espeonage. If PD flips scum, my scumread on jack will be moot.

unvote, vote: PranaDevil

[evilpacman18]

LMP is scum with me, or not scum at all? Huh?

If I flip scum, then your scumread on jack is moot? How does that work?

LMP is not scum at all. I said either you're both town or he's town and you're scum.

Because of your relations with jack this whole game and how you've been trying to get him lynched the whole time, I don't think you would be on the same team. I'm not ruling out the possibility of a bus but because of how early in the game you were attacking him, I highly doubt it. If anybody here is trying to use jack as an easy lynch, it's you. And my voting pattern has nothing to do with other peoples' voting patterns. I honestly had no idea you had 4 votes or however many on you when I started reading your iso.

[evilpacman18]

*lols*

[evilpacman18]

Meh...

Vote: Snake

inb4 HAMMERING IS SCUMMY LYNCH PACMAN

[evilpacman18]

or actually

unvote, vote:Snake

much better

[evilpacman18]

Should I mysteriously die tonight, remember that Pranadevil is scum, everybody.

Will do

[evilpacman18]

Does vollkan always insult anybody that builds a case on him?

My three suspicions so far: vollkan, and two people whose lynch vollkan wasn't against at some point. How do I become the village idiot there?

vote: vollkan

[evilpacman18]

I will put PD at L-2 because he's scum anyway.

Putting too much effort into a game isn't usually a town tell, especially if it's an unprecedented amount of effort.

unvote, vote: PranaDevil

More rhetoric.

Oh, the irony.

[evilpacman18]

The scummiest thing I can see from a2's iso is his read switch on you.

[evilpacman18]

I will put PD at L-2 because he's scum anyway.

Putting too much effort into a game isn't usually a town tell, especially if it's an unprecedented amount of effort.

unvote, vote: PranaDevil

Why is PD scum?

Looking through PD's iso, I noticed that he refused to vote for Espeonage the entire day and was quite integral in getting him NOT lynched like he should have been. He did vote ESP only after the wagon had let off steam. On that same day, he was very hypocritical, jumping on the neighbor thing asking for claims when he had got on jack about rolefishing slightly before that.

I think it's safe to say PD is scum just based on his D1 associations with Espeonage. If PD flips scum, my scumread on jack will be moot.

[evilpacman18]

Vollkan, the double negative in my post is confusing you.

Those two people are jack and PD and my point was that you have supported voting for them so why do I become stupid when I voted for them? Because it would be contradictory of you to tell me I'm VI for voting them, I must be VI for voting you and "You're an idiot" is an extremely scummy defense.

So you and PD are a scum team. A2 and LMP are town. Jack's alignment will come if I see either PD's or a2's flip. And that's everybody I can think of without looking at the OP.

[evilpacman18]

The way I learned it, the number of scum is usually around the square root of all the players. So since 18 is pretty close to 16, I just assumed there would be 4 scum.

[evilpacman18]

End of the day?

[evilpacman18]

Hi. I'm a VT.

[evilpacman18]

LMP has bad aim.

[evilpacman18]

vollkan and LMp are both scum and lying

I agree

[evilpacman18]

Because you are scum and if the only way for you to be scum is for LMP to be scum by association, so be it. I have already explained why you are scum.

[evilpacman18]

Because you are scum and if the only way for you to be scum is for LMP to be scum by association, so be it. I have already explained why you are scum.

1) Your case against me is a playstyle attack;
2) Why do you say that LMP and I both have to be scum?

because LMP would say something if you weren't together on it.

Wow, evilpacman is either stupid or scum. I'm not sure which yet.

There's a third possibility. It's the correct one and it's the one you're missing.

[evilpacman18]

because LMP would say something if you weren't together on it.

What do you mean?

Wow, evilpacman is either stupid or scum. I'm not sure which yet.

There's a third possibility. It's the correct one and it's the one you're missing.

That you're an idiot AND you're scum?

If you went around telling people what actions LMP did when he didn't do them, LMP would naturally say something if he was pro-town.

Ok that is another possibility but it's also the incorrect one. We are now at four possibilities and the three you've figured out are all wrong. Care to go again?

[evilpacman18]

You're voting for me because you think it's

unlikely

that I'm a VT in a large normal? Lol?

[evilpacman18]

Pacman: Did you read the game when you replaced in?

Volkan: What I was saying, was that given the earlier discussion that was had regarding originalmod's attempting to put strictly VT in the game, and the fact we've already lynched a couple, I would be doubtful that there is more than one vt (myself) left in the game. If pacman has a neighborhood alignment or something else to distinguish him from this, now would be the time to mention it. Otherwise, my vote is staying there. Also, it goes without saying i think that vezok was a pretty anti-town slot.

Me and vollkan asked the same question. Explain the radical difference in responses.

[evilpacman18]

Anyone who thinks I'm scum after how hard I pushed PD to the front of the lynch line is stupid.

I bussed a scumbuddy this hard in 118.

[evilpacman18]

I'm gonna be LA for a bit. Family issues.

[evilpacman18]

unvote, vote: vollkan

Hop on, LMP

[evilpacman18]

Final post, I promise.

I just thought of a useful analogy that might better illustrate my problem with the N3/N4 argument:

Country X and Country Y are at war. X has 10 nuclear missile bases (numbered B1 to B10). X also has an anti-missile defence system (MDS) able to protect 1 base at a time. Only Mr Smith, a defence specialist of X, knows which base is protected by MDS.

In June 2009, Smith decides to use the MDS to protect B1, In that same month, Y decides to make an attack on X's nuclear capabilities and decides to bomb B2, despite it being the second-best base.

In July, Smith becomes fearful that there may be enemy agents working in B10, so he decides to travel to B10 and personally investigate its staff, leaving no base protected. That same month, Y decides to launch another attack, this time bombing B6, a mediocre base, of far less strategic value than B1.

In August, the media learn the background to the June attack. Smith is accused of being a traitor, on the basis that it makes no sense that Y would decide to target B2, an inferior base, over B1 - unless they knew that B1 was protected, which could only mean that Smith was guilty of treason.

Smith, fearing mob retribution, receives permission from The X Defence Department to go public with the information that, in July, Y destroyed B6, even though B1 was unprotected. In a press conference, Smith makes the point that if Y was being informed about the MDS's location and considered B1 a high-priority targeted, then they should have targeted B1 in July. As such, Smith argues, it makes no sense to hold Smith responsible for the June attack and, moreover, it appears that B1 is not considered a high-priority target.

This makes no sense considering Y didn't know that Mr. Smith had the ability to protect any base. Unless he supplied that with that information and was, in fact, a traitor.

[evilpacman18]

L-?

[evilpacman18]

nvm found it.

I refuse to support this wagon.

[evilpacman18]

a2's play is a lazytell

[evilpacman18]

I FUCKING TOLD YOU ALL.

vote: ckd

[evilpacman18]

WOW are you kidding me? Wow. WOW. You idiot. WOW I can't even believe this.

[evilpacman18]

Scum win. Ridiculous. Lew, please justify that vote to me, I don't understand.

[evilpacman18]

Nope, not scum. I'm a VT, like I said.

[evilpacman18]

Lol I'm confused now. Who won?

[evilpacman18]

Sigh.

[evilpacman18]

I wish he would.

[evilpacman18]

Lol ckd... we lost the game -_-

[evilpacman18]

The whole game, vollkan was saying a lot but moving very little. It was like his posts arrived nowhere on purpose. That's how I knew he was scum. Too bad I was ignored the whole game. And I think even if vollkan was lynched, the outcome wouldn't have changed. Lew destroyed us.