Mafia 121 -- Picking Simplicity Game Over

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: UncertainKitten

Your play is terrible. I don't think you've been scum for a very long time because you're rusty as hell.

[Nachomamma8]

HAYL :DDD
Help me lynch UK. Because this scum isn't going to go easily.

[Nachomamma8]

(Notice "I don't want him lynched, but I think I need to see where this goes". SCUMMY!)

How is this scummy? He's saying that he wants to see why he didn't comment on the Jack claim. That's logical enough; hell, I would even call it pro-town that he was the first one to notice Antihero was the only person to avoid commenting on Jack's {Cop, Doctor} claim.

Notice Antihero bending over backwards to appease the person voting him

This isn't even close to a partner tell. Why would Antihero be concerned about appeasing his scumbuddy? Honestly, I don't see how this is "bending over backwards", either. He explained his vote, like he was asked to do. He didn't buddy up at all, he didn't do anything extra, he just explained himself.

followed by completely unoriginal statements/opinions that were not scum hunting at all ie. "I think what UK thinks"

You know, there's only so many stances you can take on a P1 claim. "Yes, I believe the claim". "No, I don't believe the claim.". "I don't know what to think about the claim". So of COURSE his opinion is going to be unoriginal. Also, what statements are you talking about? I only see one.

Once I start pushing him over this issue, Azazel gives us 2 more posts, and then does his vanishing act with unanswered questions from me. Very convenient.

Are you using flaking as a scumtell? REALLY?
There's no way in hell your questions were so pressuring and accurate and good that you made him quit. Sorry, you're not that good.

[Nachomamma8]

Case on UK is coming tomorrow.
LMP is scum with her, but we're lynching her first because she's the bigger fish to fry.

Nikanor is town.
Haylen is town.
Lowell is town.
Antihero is town.

Glork, Sudo, Jack, and AGar are probably town.

...leaving mothrax, RC, Xine, Emp, VV, and eld. Not bad.

[Nachomamma8]

Anyways, case on UK.
ISO #2: It was quite obvious in Glork's post that he found Jack more stupid than scummy. He doesn't vote in the post even though it's only page 2, which should be the first tipoff. He also asks Jack if he thought the claim through at all, which again, suggest more stupid than scummy. In no way does Glork infer that there is NO WAY that Jack is town, as UK suggests with her response by saying "I disagree with Glork... some [town intent] could exist..."

ISO #29: This is such a terrible vote. If she wants a bit of meta to "qualify" CJ's behavior, then why doesn't she just click on his name and press "search posts"? Or even look through her own? It's also another vote that has no reasoning behind it whatsoever.

ISO #49: Oh, come on. "Yeah, I started the wagon, but it was probably scum who did all the leg work". Since when did you need the help of scum to push a long a wagon you felt strongly about? This post is basically an acknowledgement that she's looking for people to pin the blame of the Snake wagon on.

ISO #50: Oh, look. She's not doing what she said she was going to do FIVE MINUTES AGO. If she was looking for people who helped push along the Snake wagon, then why isn't she looking at people ON the snake wagon?

ISO #51: Oh look, neutral read.
ISO #52: Oh, look, neutral read.

ISO #53: A SCUM READ? WHAT? Oh yeah, that was her #2 suspect yesterday, which she voted for with shitty reasoning. She added on stuff, but it was just, *gasp!*, MORE SHITTY REASONING!!

ISO #54: Oh, thank god. For a second there, I thought she was actually going to take positions on things. Another neutral read.

ISO #67: "Don't string me up in the next 8 hours"? Where did this come from? The only one who posted any suspicion was me, and she should not have been concerned I actually have a case on her this time; I mean, I attack her all the time according to ISO #55, so she should be used to it by now...

Can I has lynch now?

[Nachomamma8]

Interesting.

[Nachomamma8]

No comment on the UK case? Why not?

[Nachomamma8]

eld, LMP, AGar, comment on the UK case please.

[Nachomamma8]

The sad part is I *do* think Nacho is sincere, just posting a dumb case.

Why?

I don't get the CJMiller meta argument

Well, before CJM, UK was happily sitting on a bandwagon that she herself created, and what was garnering tons of support. Yet, she suddenly changes her vote to CJ without a meta qualifier, something that's horrendously easy to get. I also pointed out that she's also played with dumbCJtown in mal's massive mindfuck game...

I don't get the how the Lowell thing is bad (she's just wrong about it).

It's just one vote in a long line of opportunistic, weakly-reasoned votes.

[Nachomamma8]

Come to think of it, I bet UK is the SK. The mention of malths game got me to look back at a few of her posts and I get a gut scum feel, she was pretty passionate about killing CJ in malth, and her play reminds me of poa.

Do you retract your earlier statement about me being sincere, then?
Also, why aren't you voting then? Do you disagree with Nikanor's earlier reasoning about SKs?

[Nachomamma8]

Jack, Nikanor's reasoning was in the last Picking Simplicity, the town got hit hard because they didn't lynch the SK until late. On top of that, the only viable claim for an SK in an open is SK since vanilla claims are lynched and PR claims are counterclaimed, so we could force the SK to work as a vig. Thus, it's in the town's best interest to lynch SKs early.
It's okay if you think the CJ thing is weak. The primary purpose of my case is to show my sincerity.

UK, I see nothing in #530 worth responding to.
No, I'm not telling you that you're opportunistic for voting people who are actually scummy. You're opportunistic for voting people with anti-town meta with weak reasoning. There's really also no difference between me voting scum and you voting anti-town. We're both advancing our win conditions, after all.

[Nachomamma8]

Here, let me humor you.

Re: 49: I'm talking about how you specifically said you were looking for scum that got on early to the wagon. Scum, on principle, join townie lynches late, and scum lynches early. If town is being lynched, they don't want to take the blame for it. If scum is being lynched, they want to get credit for it.

If you need my help to explain the rest of it, then you're a fucking idiot. That "how is this scummy?" defense is shit and you should feel bad for even trying it.

[Nachomamma8]

The last line of 553 was meant to explain why I wasn't responding to your defense post since most of it was simply you calling the case terrible and me stupid without a whole lot of explanation surrounding it. My apologies for the misapplication of it.

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho, I'm sure your uk-is-scum eyes can see the chatter between her and Agar as bussing/distancing.

Of course. I would've doubted myself for a moment had AGar NOT voted UK.

[Nachomamma8]

EBWOP: Sorry, that last was a little harsh. But the point stands that no matter what I do you're going to erroneously assume I'm scum and probably not bother looking at anyone else til I die. Which is quite a dumb action.

Hmm, this is a fair point.
I think I might peruse through other players a bit soon... But based on what I've read, I don't think anyone can really replace you <3.

[Nachomamma8]

Whoops. I last played with UK in Disgea 2, I think. Not too long ago. I was scum, she was town.
She's rusty scum for reasons that will be clarified on the Late Night show.
And if you played in a game where she played similar, please, link me. This UK is calmer than any other I've ever seen, and thus, she's either become a weed smoker, or she's scum.

[Nachomamma8]

Oh, right. And AGar is voting where I want him to be voting so he's fine and dandy until UK's dead.

[Nachomamma8]

You do realize there are 4 scum in this game, right? 5 if you include the SK. I can't be all 5 of them.

I only have one vote, love. Just because I'm not being entirely vocal about my other suspicions doesn't mean I don't have them.

[Nachomamma8]

@Nocumen: Nope.

@UK: Fair enough. It's just like there's some huge aspect of this game missing because I see UncertainKitten in the playerlist so I expect to feel the rage. I have legs to stand on. I have two. I haven't answered your questions yet, I'll admit. But that'll come, soon. Also, there's no theory in holding back scumreads.

[Nachomamma8]

Well then Vas, my eyes have been opened.
However, meta reasons aren't why I'm voting UK. Meta is far too easy to manipulate for most and is thus useless.

[Nachomamma8]

Thoughts on AGar's alignment...
Well, I don't care about it. He's voting where I want him to vote, and thus if he's scum he's bussing and if he's town he's voting smart and if he's SK he's helping us for the moment. So, his alignment makes no difference to me no matter how you slice it.
His actions... whaddya mean? He's playing just fine to this point.
The case on him... haven't read it. Is there one you recommend?
Also, why do you care about my attitude about AGar? There's still plenty of people to go for an AGar lynch with you...

UK, don't tease me like that. Talk your dirty theory to me so we can have an alignment-neutral conversation, baby.

[Nachomamma8]

UK, wasn't I slipping into scumminess 116 posts ago?

[Nachomamma8]

UK, did that post have a purpose? No, it didn't. Don't fencesit like that, love.

[Nachomamma8]

Jack, stop being reasonable.
Bear with me for a moment and see that I'm only active lurking until the weekend.

[Nachomamma8]

I have a cop guilty on UK.

[Nachomamma8]

@AGar: Drop the SK discussion for now. It can be resumed tomorrow. Right now, it detracts from a UK lynch, which is bad.

[Nachomamma8]

Xine is innocent. For sure.

The UK result was a mod error.

Vote: Nocumen

, triggered from #836. I'll post more in a moment.

[Nachomamma8]

LMP... you aren't UK.
Get your head out of your ass and start producing something; you shouldn't feel so overwhelmed by pressure when there's none on you.

[Nachomamma8]

The following post is a response to #921:

{Edited out ginormous amounts of text-spam. Nachomamma8 has been slapped. ~~NS}

Now, return.


I have a post waiting to reach the light of day. I'm letting Glork do his little thing first, though.

[Nachomamma8]

god damnit.
too many words for the spoiler.

I'm half-tempted to spam the page so I don't have to look at the block of text for the rest of the game, but, alas.

[Nachomamma8]

I have no interest in sharing an investigation at the moment.

My five favorite wagons:
Nocumen
RedCoyote
Antihero
eldarad
Lowell

My Five Least Favorite Wagons:
Glork
Xine
DemonHybrid
AGar
Haylen

Reasons come later.

[Nachomamma8]

RC, you said you were uncomfortable with the LMP wagon because I wasn't on it.
And now, you're pushing an AGar wagon when I'm directly telling you that I'm opposed to it.

What's the logic behind this?

[Nachomamma8]

That's L-1. Let me hammer.

[Nachomamma8]

I have no interest in sharing an investigation at the moment.

[Nachomamma8]

Alright, alright. I'm a lazy cop.
But if pressed, I'd call a RC-Nocumen-Lowell scumteam.

RC is playing more like cornered scum trying to tie himself with a few people before he dies.

Nocumen has been focused on active lurkers to the extent where he's active lurking himself.

And Lowell for crap like post #8.

I have my doubts that Antihero is scum, but y'all can lynch him when I'm dead and gone.

[Nachomamma8]

Especially when I said not to...?

[Nachomamma8]

Hey. RC.

u scum bro?

[Nachomamma8]

Okay, here's how this is going to go down:

I will not reveal any of my innocents. If I get enough innocents where the innocents + me make up a majority, then we win. Now, naturally, if scum knew who my innocents were, they'd be able to make a move to kill them early. But as long as I confirm all of the obvnondoc people I can, I'm pretty sure we'll be fine.

I will not reveal my guilties. Because I'm confirmed as cop, once I get a guilty result on someone, they're scum; we can lynch them whenever we like, so there's no rush there. Which means that I can watch scum interact when I know they're scum already, and do pretty well in discerning their partners. Scum also won't know how many innocents I have, so they won't know how close they are to losing the game.

I would also prefer if you all let me hammer. I'm sure you guys won't be able to take a confirmed innocent of mine up to L-1, but just in case, I'd like to have the last say.

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: LMP

No reason to not sheep.

I'm not worried. My boy Vas will stand up for me. Isn't that right, Vas?

Huh?

Vote: RC

I thought that VV's voting lately has been very thought out and original. I do believe that his cases on LMP and RC, especially, were thought out and from a pro-town perspective.

[Nachomamma8]

Then vote elderad.

[Nachomamma8]

Elderad, claim in your next post.

Bolded for your convenience! For everyone else, no more votes go on elderad until he claims, okay?

But it seems I have to make my intentions clearer. Elderad is not being lynched today because of some investigation result. We're making an example out of Elderad to show townies and scum alike that quickhammering is the worst possible mistake they can make. He has to die based on principle before anything else, honestly.

[Nachomamma8]

I don't agree with this.
You are a mod-confirmed cop. That gives you a veto over the lynch of confirmed innocents. It doesn't give you a veto over any other lynch, although your opinion will naturally carry more weight as you are a confirmed innocent yourself.

It's also important to stop people like you from quickhammering.

Quickhammer?!
Just to be clear, at no point did you oppose a hammer on RC.

You hammered him before he claimed, and when I specifically told you not to. That's a quickhammer.

I am not prepared to claim at this point.

You will claim in your next post, or you will be lynched without a claim. Don't try to squirm out of this.

[Nachomamma8]

I read this as "I'm happy with this lynch, I'll hammer"

Wait, let's look at that quote again.

That's L-1. Let me hammer.

And for the record, let's get the supersized, capitalized and in bolded print.

THAT'S L-1. LET ME HAMMER.

How the hell could you read that as "elderad, you have the clear to hammer"? I said let me hammer. If I was happy with the lynch, I would've voted. If I wanted someone else to hammer, I would've said "go ahead. hammer.". But when someone says let ME hammer, that means that they want to hammer. Comprende?

You didn't oppose a hammer, you just said that you wanted to hammer yourself.

Are you me? If not, then WHY THE HELL DID YOU HAMMER.

RC had a chance to claim in #992, and he was resigned to a nacho-led lynch. That doesn't sound like a doc talking to me. Does that sound like a doc to you?

RC was not a nacho-led lynch. Elderad is a nacho-led lynch. And you know, you've had TWO chances to claim and you still haven't claimed yet. That sure as hell doesn't sound like a doc to me!

Vote: elderad

Everyone is welcome to hammer. In fact, I'm explicitly TELLING you to.

Vote: Substrike

, at least until he gives his posts and suspicions. It's ironic that he's just like Anti

OH LOOK IM GOING TO IGNORE THE ELDERAD SITUATION COMPLETELY AND VOTE THE PERSON WHO I WAS PUSHIN A CASE ON YESTERDAY.


@Hayl: If you help me lynch elderad, then we WILL lynch my guilties, promise.

DH, Xine... Where's your votes?

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: elderad

Just for you, NS

[Nachomamma8]

If elderad refuses to claim, then lynch him.

[Nachomamma8]

Unvote: elderad

[Nachomamma8]

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooo

DH why did you counterclaim? We were just gonna no-lynch after he was outed as doctor ;[[[

Oh well.

Vote: Nocumen

[Nachomamma8]

Glork, why don't you want to lynch Nocumen?

[Nachomamma8]

mothrax:
Mothrax is scum due to interactions with LMP. He defends LMP, he makes votes that save LMP from being bandwagoned at times, and, has an absolutely terrible bandwagon vote on snake.

Spoiler: Examples

ISO 1: Response to Azazels vote on LMP. Reads as scumbuddy defending scumbuddy.
ISO 3: Reasonless, bandwagon vote. However, this is ESPECIALLY significant considering it was a vote on Empking when he was the counterwagon to LMP. Mothrax's vote tied Empking's and LMP's wagon.
ISO 4: Votes snake for being melodramatic. He makes it seem like a pressure vote by saying "Let's see how you react at L-3...", but never follows up on it, comments it, or moves it. To this point, he also hadn't mentioned snake at all.

Nocumen:
The case on Nocumen is simpler. His interactions like LMP look like failed bussing; despite him being Nocumen's top suspect after a reread, the only time he really comments on LMP is in his ISO #8. He then slides onto an AGar wagon without reason to accompany the change. He tries to salvage some of the town cred from bussing by asking LMP if he thought about "the reasons why [Nocumen] found him scum yesterday". Well, why would he? You dropped the case on him...





Oh, by the way, we're lynching Haylen or Nocumen today.

Fixed tag. ~~NS

[Nachomamma8]

I can get behind a haylen lynch, but I think Vas is a much better lynch prospect Today.

Why? VV is a flake.

[Nachomamma8]

Unvote, Vote: Haylen

Equinox, the scumteam is Haylen/Nocumen/elderad. Does that save a little reading for you?

[Nachomamma8]

Bye DH!

See you soon!

[Nachomamma8]

Nachomamma8
Xine
AGar
Lowell
Glork

Me and my confirmed innocents have taken the majority. We win.

[Nachomamma8]

And if that needs explaining, then let me help you out.

Confirmed innocent wagons random player not in the group, innocent. 8 people left. Mafia kills someone. 7 people left: 4 confirmed town, 3 mafia. Lynch a mafia, kill an innocent. 3,2. Lynch a mafia, kill an innocent. 2, 1. Lynch a mafia, we win. There's nothing they can do.

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: elderad

[Nachomamma8]

Equinox, everybody already knew that
You replaced VV, 'member?

[Nachomamma8]

DH, I have to say you did a really, REALLY good job replacing in. I figured that Nikanor was the doc based on the whole SK thing, but the whole voting for my confirmed innocent, asking for any claims, then noticing my claim and restarting the process again had me saying HELL NO.

[Nachomamma8]

Also, lynching UK was the highlight of the game for me.