Mafia 124 - Dilemma Mafia (Day 6)

[DavidParker]

dERphErpA

[DavidParker]

(need til saturday to catch up/post. work all day friday and sleeping now)

[DavidParker]

SOOOOOOOOOOON. Drun now. SOo, soon.

[DavidParker]

Reading... COMMENCE!

[DavidParker]

RVS (ft. Final Fires being a newbie): Not much to comment on. Coming out of RVS I have a slight town read on Yos and Final Fires and Jahudo (who flipped town so yeah i'm biased) and a slight scum read on ender and Darla. (P.S. I LOVE YOUR AVATAR DARLA. I HAVE A BSG TATOO OF KARA'S PAINTING ON MY ARM)

Post RVS posts/votes/wagons:
Bub's Vote on Darla (#69): Appears as a town vote on scum or town. +Town points to Bub.
DLG Vote on ABR (#72): ABR is an easy target at this point, but an easy scummy target for his lack of input. But I think given his fluff/insults occurred entirely in RVS this is a bit of a stretch to vote him for it at this point. I can see this as scum on scum vote, or scum on town vote. +Scum points to DLG.
Yosarian's Vote+Case on Ender (#79): Ender is an easy target as well. But he is being meta-defended by Darla. The fact Yos re-confirms his vote makes this seem like town on town vote, or town on scum. +Town points to Yos.
Darla's Vote on Whiskey (#85): Null on all fronts. Darla just doesn't seem too keen on any of the wagons so decides to push a completely different angle. Maybe slight town points to Darla. But not too many. I'm more wary of the people who jumped on the wagon to follow. In fact, no one jumpin on wagon now kinda shows whiskey-town. But that's just hindsight.
DLG's Darla Vote (#89): DLG vote hops rather quickly to a somewhat non-wagon. Didn't last long on ABR's wagon. If ABR slot flips scum or DLG slot, I'm definitely looking strongly at the other of the two. (no idea why rekirts my replacee gave him townie points)
brokenscraps defending of Darla(#93): I like his defense here. Seems genuine town. His vote on Jahudo is pretty weak. But +town points to broken.
brokenscraps bobsnox vote(#107): Another town-like vote in my eyes. This does seem like brokenscraps town meta.
bobsnox "calling it" (#133): bobsnox is scum. calling it.


So ugh. I've read pages 1-8 and 26-30. Someone got a spark notes for the inbetween? Wall posts at 530am = death. I'll finish the rest later. At this point from the early game stuff I read, I'd say I have a strong town read on broken, and a fairly strong scum read on bob (Although I can definitely see a possible DLG+ABR combo). Also the ABR slot isn't helped by Flinter coming in and posting suspicion of Final Fires.. Fairly useless at that point.

Actually you know what. I'm getting to page 10. Just watch me.

I actually feel I will be getting just as much from pages 8-30 anyways as I did from pages 3-8. Ok half-asleepedly read to end of page 10. Jahudo seems townier and ender seems much scummier.

MORE LATER. In all seriousness, someone wanna sum up the next 20 pages, if there's claims I should know about now or anything actual eventful that would be useful to know when I'm reading the most recent posts?

Recent pages I can see Fate-town meta shining through (although I don't know what exactly his scum meta is, i've only ever seen him as town and this is how he does it usually).


PREVIEW EDIT x6: IGNORE. SLEEP.

PREVIEW: WTF. Apparently I'm too tired to use URL tags properly. Deleting all my urls and just putting post numbers. Feel free to look them up... Too tired to quote posts at this point.

PREVIEW EDIT x2: STOP POSTING. I'M STILL IGNORING. I'M STILL GOING TO SLEEP.

[DavidParker]

WATS GOIN ON HERE?

[DavidParker]

VOTE FATE

[DavidParker]

WAIT SO YOS IS TOWN FATE?????????? WAT IS GOING ON HERE?

[DavidParker]

THIS WAS KEEPING ME UP AS WELL. DISAPPOINTED NOW. AND ONLY 3 HOURS OF SLEEP TO BE HAD. VERY DISAPPOINTED.

[DavidParker]

UNVOTE

[DavidParker]

LOL.

I was about to go to sleep having unvoted one of my town reads and leave it there but that is too funny.

mega vote: werewolf

Are you serious?!?!? LIKE SERIOUS???!??!

[DavidParker]

Lack-of-sleep-delirium aside... My recent posts have been rather sarcastic. I was awaiting for the Yos/Fate drama to come to some kind of conclusion, and just posting random interjections in between. My vote wasn't serious either. (THIS ONE IS). Oh right, but using all CAPS = Reckless. Of course! (not).

And you find a single game of me being town where I'm cautious and what??? Have you looked at my games?? Really??? REALLLLY?

[DavidParker]

@mod:

2. DarlaBlueEyes (2) - bobsnox, Fate, Jahudo

Hmm..

Also where are you Darla. I wanna talk BSG WITH YOUUUU

[DavidParker]

I'm kinda confused atm. Isn't yos supposed to be a relatively experienced player? why isn't he acting as one.

[DavidParker]

It doesn't make me think he's scum, it just makes me confused :/

[DavidParker]

hypersensitive?? overblown? That was me laughing my ass off. I'd go with overblown, but it wasn't hypersensitive. I found his whole post hilarious. The case he made on me was so hilariously poor and scummy and just factually incorrect that he warranted my vote. Yes it was an OMGUS. But an OMGUS on the scummiest thing I'd seen at that point.

[DavidParker]

hypersensitive?? overblown? That was me laughing my ass off. I'd go with overblown, but it wasn't hypersensitive. I found his whole post hilarious. The case he made on me was so hilariously poor and scummy and just factually incorrect that he warranted my vote. Yes it was an OMGUS. But an OMGUS on the scummiest thing I'd seen at that point.

and I didn't vote you....
How was it an OMGUS?

you posted suspicion of me i retaliated against you.

[DavidParker]

To be honest Darla, I haven't taken the game entirely seriously, I am playing to win though, but I am having some fun along the way. I do have to ask, what is wrong with the werewolf wagon at this point? When I first omgus'd him, it was partly to get his reaction, and partly because his case on me sucked and was more-or-less factually incorrect. My town meta is reckless. That's how I play in almost ALL of my town games. I be reckless in different ways in different games (ie: fake claiming sometimes, or sometimes just being super-extroverted, or pushing super hard certain lynches etc) but it's almost always reckless to some extent. (yeah omg self-meta!!!!!). My scum meta i'd say is less reckless, but it's not really cautious either at the same time. Anyways, point is, I don't play cautious. It's almost as if werewolf was testing the waters to push a lynch on me after my first few "non-serious" posts. Now, with his recent lack of content, and just general uselessness, i'm really quite happy with a werewolf vote, and would be even more happy with a werewolf lynch.

[DavidParker]

I'm happy to leave my vote where it is until i see a DBE response at this point.

[DavidParker]

You can't lynch scum that are having a bad day RL, its just too cruel.

Translation: We can't mislynch Darla because she is having a bad day RL. So let's mislynch Bub today and then we can mislynch Darla tomorrow.

UNVOTE, VOTE FATE

[DavidParker]

Translation: We can't mislynch Darla because she is having a bad day RL. So let's mislynch Bub today and then we can mislynch Darla tomorrow.

This is a rather large leap you've made. Can you explain in more detail how you arrived at this conclusion?

Because Fate had been gunning for Darla for so long, and let a V/la/stalling make him unvote? I don't buy it. Regardless of the reason attached to Darla's stalling. Add Fate's fake claim onto that and I'd put Fate in my top two scum picks.

[DavidParker]

the guy Nikanor had gut-doubts about way back when

Really? You have all my recent iso to use against me, and you use this? REALLY?

[DavidParker]

LOL.

I was about to go to sleep having unvoted one of my town reads and leave it there but that is too funny.

mega vote: werewolf

Are you serious?!?!? LIKE SERIOUS???!??!

hypersensitive?? overblown? That was me laughing my ass off. I'd go with overblown, but it wasn't hypersensitive. I found his whole post hilarious. The case he made on me was so hilariously poor and scummy and just factually incorrect that he warranted my vote. Yes it was an OMGUS. But an OMGUS on the scummiest thing I'd seen at that point.

It is factually correct if you look at the game.

I even iso'd myself in that game because I didn't believe I had ever played a cautious-town game. And I'm not quite sure I agree with you here.

[DavidParker]

Well, the thing that gets me about Fate's "claim" was just that. He didn't quite claim. He could have fake-cop-claimed to derail Llama's wagon; but he didn't, he just hinted that he had role-related information that Llama was town. Similarly, he could have just said nothing of his role-information or lack there of, and said he was almost certain that Llama was town based on the way Llama had been playing or for whatever reason, but he did not. He went for the in-between option with his soft-claim. I just don't see the logic behind a town player doing the in-between soft-claim. It just looks bad, and doesn't help town. The second option I definitely see town doing, and while fake-claiming cop definitely isn't pro-town, I still see town-motive for it at times as something to do on occasion.

[DavidParker]

IGNORED WHATTTTTT

[DavidParker]

IGNORING YOU TRY TO DIRECT A VIG???

Oh right, your little commentary on my catchup:
1) Your whole "as scum why wouldn't I let the marble mislynch roll through" is a largely WIFOM based argument. There's always scum motive to do something that makes you seem town. Derail a wagon on a townie. Who says it's even a mislynch? Maybe you are playing some HUGE gambit to save your partner.
2) Your not a town read anymore? oh dear. reads can change.
3) Spinning yarn? You seem to just be pushing cases on players, testing the water. First with Yos, then with Darla, now with Bub.


Preview Edit: It's not a scum tell on its own. What I find scummy about it (not a scum tell persay though), is that you were already voting Darla despite Darla not being there and posting, and having been missing for a day or two. How's that any different to a V/LA, just that it hasn't been declared.. Declaring a v/la isn't really any different to just not posting in a game. One can easily lie about the former.

[DavidParker]

I'm curious Fate, apart from Yos, who is actually town? you seem to be of the opinion that almost everyone is scum bussing their buddy or distancing, and your only town read is someone you were voting not long ago.

[DavidParker]

About time you decided to bus your scum buddy werewolf. Thanks!

[DavidParker]

lolumad.

Nah man, I'm quite content.

[DavidParker]

I never like last posts like that. It's not really a tell either way of whether you are town or scum, but if you do flip town I feel there is a lot of pressure to push a wagon just because you said to do so :/

[DavidParker]

I have a somewhat neutral-leaning-town read on Bub at the moment, but still willing to hammer given a deadline coming up if his wagon is larger than Fate's.

[DavidParker]

So, ignoring the huge push for your lynch is helping you how, Darla?

[DavidParker]

Fate, are you sure Yos is town? i'm not convinced...

[DavidParker]

He'd have to be a scumtracker, so he's not high priority. Him not claiming anything today gives off bad vibes though, as well as his whole "I'm not a strong tracker, there's probably stronger PRS than me out there" being a weirdass post.

Dartla first

No he wouldn't. He could easily be a scum-roleblocker/cop who targetted you and knew you were lying when you had role-related information to reveal. I can see that as quite possible from scum-Yos targetting Nikanor on night 1. Not saying Yos is the best lynch for today, I just have no idea why you have him written off as confirmed town.

@Jahudo: Well I'm undecided at this point. Darla earlier defended llama in day 1 using meta alone, so I really don't see a scum partnership here, and it did seem like town defending town, or town defending scum to me, so I definitely had a slight town read on Darla earlier. However, her reluctance to actually bandwagon earlier didn't please me greatly. I haven't caught up much/properly looked at her end of day1/start of day 2 play, but I don't have a strong scum read at this point.

Not willing to lynch list:
Jahudo
Fishy

[DavidParker]

At this point I'm led to believe either Yos or Fate is scum (not both)
Werewolf is scum
Someone else is scum.

[DavidParker]

Wait so what's stopping Yos being a scum roleblocker or scum-cop who targetted Fate? both plausible roles, and roles that would know Fate had no way of confirming Marble if Yos targetted Fate day/night 1.

[DavidParker]

I mean you're much more likely to see a scum roleblocker than a scum tracker. So Yos catches town-Fate out in a lie regarding role info, since Yos roleblocked Fate night 1. Now... He can claim he roleblocked him and Fate is lying scum, or he can claim he tracked him a much townier role...

[DavidParker]

Okay, I feel Fate is more town now.

Vote: Darla

[DavidParker]

What kind of explanation do you expect? It's evident you aren't scum buddies. I find you both inherently scummy on your own merits, but it doesn't seem a wagon on either of you is happening today, and there is no support for it. Fate recently has proven to be quite town; ie: I think you are likely scum. Broken saying you are a "confirmed power role" seems like some possible scum-defending, by implying you are town because of it. As it stands, I'd love a lynch of either of you two today, but I don't think it's all that likely, especially the lynch on you, which can wait, as there is time to catch you in your lie based on what you claimed.

Unvote, Vote: brokenscraps

[DavidParker]

Well what made me most skeptical of Yos is the way he reacted. His immediate reaction was like "YOU CAUGHT!!", okay something maybe town or scum would do when they catch someone in a lie, but he just laid off as soon as the Fate wagon didn't kick off. I recognized Fate caught in a lie, so hopped on the wagon, because Fate deserved the pressure. But Yos has just sorta persistently stated he finds Fate scummy because of his lie without pushing a wagon on him. It's as if he's saving Fate being caught out for a later moment when people are willing to wagon Fate, but he's happy to let it sit for now and hopefully push a different mis lynch.

I wasn't convinced on broken until his last post which just screamed scum to me as well. DBE seems more like a victim of misfortune and bad timing with some of her votes/wagoning, and not necessarily scum to me.

@Fishy: I don't think Fate is scum any more. I still think Yos is scum. I've more or less outlined why I believe that in this post and other posts with regard to his claim and his actions.

[DavidParker]

I definitely think that tomorrow depending on today's lynch/nightkills, that what should likely happen is, first thing, Yos revealing his results from last night and the coming night if he is still alive. Then we can go from there. Cause right now he looks like scummy-mc-scum-scum to me. Broken as well. Werewolf has disappeared but I'll throw him into that pile as the third scum member.

[DavidParker]

As soon as we see a scum flip (ideally broken) i actually have a huge hunch indicating that Yos might be scum as well.

[DavidParker]

Llama, why aren't you voting Darla?

Because of at the time of his last post, a vote on Darla would have been a hammer? What do you think; you clown....

[DavidParker]

Broken is really making a huge stretch on his semi-case on Fishy. Seems very desperate at this point.

Anyone else notice how CONVENIENT IT WAS that Yos tracked a claimed VT?!??! He won't be producing info that he can get caught out in a lie using because he tracked a claimed VT. I'm really liking a Yos lynch at this point.

[DavidParker]

Oh, my current opinion is you are a scum roleblocker. You chose to say you tracked a claimed VT because if you say you tracked someone else, ie: someone who might be a PR, they can turn around and say, "hey i should have gotten results last night but i didn't, i must have been roleblocked.. oh and hey, here's this scummy guy who targetted me".

[DavidParker]

Mind voting your scum buddy before replacing out? thanks.

[DavidParker]

Darla asking for "direction" in kills from town doesn't seem very town-motivated to me...

I've been behind a werewolf lynch for a looooong time. Please let this wagon kick off.

Unvote, Vote: Locke Lamora

[DavidParker]

I think the recent interactions and voting of each other really points to Locke(werewolf) and broken being scum buddies. Both just doing survivalistic-votes on the other and semi-bussing distancing attempts but neither really seems to be very convincing with their vote.

[DavidParker]

Checking time post, I'm really undecided between lynching scum A or scum B, I'm probably about 80% sure both are scum.

[DavidParker]

Actually, quick hammering broken since I gotta protect my buddy werewolf, right broken?

Unvote, Vote: brokenscraps

[DavidParker]

So. We are led to believe there is 2 scum factions. Something tells me the vig claim = scum. I can't believe there have been that many failed kills (and find it unlikely there'd be 3 kills a night possible anyways, that's way too swingy), so I don't see how DBE can be a vig at this point.

Look, it's not as if even the two scum factions targetted the same person. THe second scum faction targetted red mafia, so who did red mafia target? Most of our town PR's seem dead, and there's just not much that would have prevented the red mafia kill. And if we are led to believe DBE Is town-vig, something prevented BOTH red mafia nightkill AND the vig kill???? NOT BUY IT SONNY BOY.

Vote: DBE

[DavidParker]

Yeah pretty much, and looking at Locke+ fishy or jahudo as most likely to be on the other scum team.

[DavidParker]

FF soft-claimed PR, I think it's likely both groups targetted him.

Locke's recent post seems to translate to: Quick-lynch this Darla, but I'm gonna pretend to do some re-reads so i look pro-town and might not get lynched tomorrow. I'm actually happy to lynch Locke's slot since I'm probably equally sure it's scum as Darla is. Since Darla didn't claim the kill, shes prob red scum with Yos. Question is, do we wanna lynch yos's buddy or go for other scum group today? Tomorrow seems to be lylo if we lynch red-scum-dbe today.

[DavidParker]

Has there been games in the past where the mod has given scum teams a "color" or "name" implying there is 2 scum teams, but there's only been one? Ie: Normal 1 scum group vs 1 town group, but when scum die they flip as "Red Scum". Or has it always meant 2 scum groups?

[DavidParker]

Back from a short road-trip down south. Sorry I didn't announce my absence.

Will catch up soon. I don't think it's 3-3 because town has been lacking heavily in the PR department for that to be the case... And I really can't see 5 of you as scum...

[DavidParker]

Sweet. I'll help explain a few things.

I'm a commuter. Hence the lack of results on me last night. I can only use this ability three times throughout the game, and all three can't be in succession.

I've used it Nights 1, 3, and 4.

[DavidParker]

Locke next

[DavidParker]

Using the same PoE you are highly-plausible scum as well. Just saying. I'm all onboard a Locke lynch, but if your reasoning is "PoE".. then..... dunno what to say.

At the moment I'm inclined to believe Jahudo's claim.

[DavidParker]

Oh hi there. I'm on break at work. Aka I have 1 hour between lunch and dinner shift. You obviously voted for a reason, and I'm almost certain locke is scum at this point and a good lynch for today, but I fear you are also scum trying to manipulate us at this point :/

Can't input muchuntil Sunday, 21st bday tomorrow, and saturday i'm working again

[DavidParker]

Well Fishy going on V/LA with his vote on someone means that if there's no quickhammer over the weekend before he comes back either he or Locke are scum.

Or both.

[DavidParker]

Hey back from my mini-holiday. Interesting course of events. Guess that makes things easier on my part as I now know who scum is and that just saved me a lot of time scum hunting. The roleblocker flip doesn't change anything, it just means he isn't a gunsmith. Will post more later.

Vote: jahudo

[DavidParker]

almost. there.

The bus my roleblocker partner option was definitely not a strong one. should have opted for the slip-up and let myself get lynched to make my partner look town strat yesterday.

[DavidParker]

I need some sort of reasoning as to how i dodged a nightkill AND an investigation.

[DavidParker]

on reflection there wasn't much to be done in those final few days :/

[DavidParker]

Oh yay, I was not looking forward to making a summary.

Empking, so did you make this setup based on Fire and Ice mafia?

I wans't lookin forward to it either :/, and that's why i stalled haha. I knew i'd need one though :p

[DavidParker]

cuz u were obv town more or less fate :/

the problem was, i figured out who the other 2 scum were pretty quickly, but that didn't really help us whatsoever. I mean i only knew they were scum more or less because I WAS SCUM (and because i knew fate was town), so the only reason i saw for yos counter claiming Fate's fake-claim was that yos = scum. DBE vig = scum. And well, evne having figured out scum, they knew more or less who was scum as well (at least one of locke or me), and both were going for each other rather than hitting town. When we night killed yos, i knew scum would be targetting me prob, so it was more a "lets hit back" kinda deal. And knowing that killing yos would set up dbe's lynch. but then having killed off the other scum.. our position was crap still.

[DavidParker]

Blue mafia QT: http://www.quicktopic.com/45/H/5Y8JxPCRwzy

Btw, we were meant to roleblock DBE on night 2 actually apparently the action didn't submit or something, although emp seemed to think werewolf couldn't kill and roleblock momentarily.