New York 131: Tricycle Mafia (Day 5)

[Maxous]

Apologies for the late start.
FYI I am disappointed in the biggest bandwagon ¬_¬

What time zone are you in?

What's your experience level? Especially good to know in case of alts and whatnot.

About how active will you be in this game?

GMT
10-ish games.
I'll try to post once a day.

VOTE: Pine
Trying to shove suspicion on Thor over nothing.

[Maxous]

Heh, interesting point about Amor.

@Silverbullet: Why did you vote subzero twice?

I'll have to let Toon answer why he voted like he did, but I don't quite get why not voting me was even the slighest suspicious.
We want to lead the town on the

right track

don't we ( but seriously, I don't see it)

Wraith..is actually doing little with his posts.

@Mod: Have you notified all the players that this game has started?

[Maxous]

Hmm?

Do you find Subzero suspicious because they are suspecting Toonfighter?
Or suspicious because they feel thier vote is on a better place than a random bandwagon on myself?

[Maxous]

I understand now Subzero. Although scratch option 1 off there =p

Heh, interesting point about Amor.

What does interesting mean in this context?

As in he could well be correct.

What? I thought my vote was on Toon. nhammen vote was pure RVS, Toon is real.

UNVOTE: nhammen
VOTE: Toon

Why do you suspect ToonFighter?
The only reason you gave was a slight gut read :/

Why don't we discuss something more productive?

Like what?
You did'nt bring up anything to discuss.

[Maxous]

• KOC and Subzero are likely to be town.
  I think Jmurph is town.
  Ever so slightly leaning town on Wraith.
  nhammen and Mr.Zepher look like town.
  I'm unsure about Thor- I'll see after a couple of more posts.
  VERY unsure about Amor
  Pine looks slightly scummy
  Toon fighter seems like mafia - quite interested in his next post

Everybody else is null due to not having enough content to judge them by apart from:

Unvote

VOTE: Silverbullet

Looks to be active lurking.

[Maxous]

Question, if you suspected Toon to be a Mafia, then why vote Silverbullet for active lurking. Are you saying that a lurker will little to no evidence is more Mafia than someone who you just said was Mafia? But if you think that, then start questioning Silverbullet, if he's active, he should answer.

What Silverbullet looks to me, is mafia that is not sure where to turn in this game so he ends up saying nothing while trying to look like he scumhunting.
Active lurking is not quite the same as lurking.
Lurking in most cases is a null tell, as the person does'nt have enough time/interest in the game to post a lot.
But with active lurking the player does have enough time and interest but is still saying hardly nothing which is more a scumtell as the player is usually avoiding commiting himself with opinons to keep his options open. Which I think is happening here.

So yes. Silverbullet seems more like mafia to me than Toon fighter.

[Maxous]

If I get voted for bandwaggoning in RVS, this guy should too.

FoS: Thor

Problem with this : Town Toon would know that people such as Subzero were inncorrectly suspecting him for a reason such as bandwagoning or whatever. So he sees somebody else blatantly bandwagoning and suspects them despite his knowledge that he is in fact a townie performing the exact same action. He has performed like mafia according to his own scumtell. I think Thor mentioned this.

Hey y'all, I am a bit more calm now

This is a real doozy here.
Toon competely lifted the excuse DK gave him from his wall and ran with it. As the comments were only because of his irration at whoever.
It would'nt of been as suspect if Toon brought it up himself but the fact that he read DK's comments and then posted this looks quite opportunistic.

@SubzeroSith: What I meant about Amor is that I keep changing my thoughts about his alignment. One post I think he is town. next post I think he is mafia etc. It's going up and down like a yo-yo
My slight town read on Wraith was due to him suspecting nhammen due to himself perceving nhammen to be playing the exact same way he played as mafia before. I disgaree with his suspicion on nhammen but I see it as more likely that the meta suspicion would come from town Wraith rather than mafia Wraith making it up.
But it would be wonderful if Wraith could give us a suspicion in his next post based on somebody's actions in *this* game.

_________________
________________

maybe it's cause... hmmm I dunno... I'm waiting for a reply?

You were referring to this? :

So I didn't find sub suspicous nor did I state this anywhere? Really now? Show me how I have no opinion of anything..

Yes you had a half-reason on Sub early. As for the second part I can't show where you

do

have a suspicion on somebody after that (at the time of writing). That is my point. There is material to judge in the game and you have'nt.

Subzero asks why you were'nt questioning or commenting on anything and it was because you were waiting on an answer to this, that stopped you for looking for mafia. You were that focused on defending yourself? Do you think I am mafia or something?
All your comments and questions which you referred to were in reaction to somebody questioning and suspecting you.

What you have done is show zero initiative to find mafia and your sole focus is to defend yourself(to the point of distraction apparently).

No desire to look for mafia + overly concentrated on defending himself from votes = mafia member.
Simple maths :p

I seen you again voted Sub above.
What do you think of Subzero's posts in between the last one and the one you highlighted as suspicious early in the game?

The above is especially for Pine!

Where has Nobody Special gone? :/

[Maxous]

@Silverbullet:
1) This is not comitting yourself opinions. Particualry when it's the only one you have mentioned in 19 posts.
2) Why am I winning scum points?
3) Fine..I'll rephrase. What is your opinion on Subzero's case on Toon Fighter?

@Wraith: Fine..

Uite is null. He said he has'nt had time.

Basically agree

[Maxous]

@Mastin2: Can you give us some non-VCA reasons why Silverbullet and Subzero are mafia?
Oh and explain this as well please.

Zepher - In this post I kinda feel he left himself a bit too much wriggling room on Silverbullet. Even though he did express suspicion of Subzero. Hmm :/

This is completely false. Are you really telling me that my questions to you and max are me just dancing in the air having a good ol time?

Are you attempting to say you were scumhunting me?

What kind of shitty town are you to not want to pursue someone you think is scum unless your scum and... oh... now it makes sense.

Which is exactly what he did early game when he found a slight suspicion on Subzero and done nothing to pursue the suspicion or others.
He acted like mafia according to his own scumtell.


Posts like these always make me feel a bit uneasy. Mafia can uncommitally state this and wait to see what direction the town will go and then vote.
This vote then happened afterwards. I think Silver was on 5 at the time.

Uite - Why are you getting bad vibes from Toon and Thor?

Yikes, feel uneasy about this vote
Surye - Why will Subzero be top of your list on Day 2?

Pine - Why did the arguement not strike you as town vs town?

Silverbullet - How does scum nhammen post?

Wraith - Can you explain/state some of your stronger town reads to us please then? Process of elimination can also work in games.

since if I read the deadline right, we only have 4 days left, and Uite's trying to start a completely different wagon?

Nothing wrong with starting a new one in that timefrime. Gathering 8-9 votes would'nt take that long, particualry as deadline closes in.

[Maxous]

I just think it's interesting how 2 suspected likely scum are currently on the Mastin wagon but

everyone else is still arguing over 50/50 scum/town

I think there are more scum pushing for a Silver/Sub lynch then other, sense-making lynches.

1) Why is Nobody Special likely scum?
2) You think at least one of Silver and Subzero is mafia? Why are'nt you voting or giving any thoughts at all on them then?
3) What "other sense-making lynches?" You stated your suspects it was Subzero and Amor. The latter being mostly gut?

[Maxous]

Mastin2 - If you simply manage to catch just one mafia today.. I will be delighted.

Silverbullet - Sorry for being unclear.
"Are you attempting to say you were scumhunting me?"
That one please.

Toon Fighter - Make sure you include why you agree with the case on Subzero please.

Surye - Is the implication here that you beleive Subzero and Silverbullet to be bussing?
When you say "depending on Silver's flip" can you be more specific? i.e. going through the two hypothetical scenarios of Silver flipping town and mafia.

Amor - Who are the scum filling Silver's wagon? DK and KOC?
By the way going regardless of Silverbullet's alignment, yes it is likely there will is mafia on the bandwagon.

If Silverbullet flips mafia I will look into what Pine said about Mastin.

Zepher - Hmm, what doubts do you have about Silverbullet?

And uh... that's a wrap =)

[Maxous]

By the way regardless of Silverbullet's alignment, yes it is likely there is mafia on his bandwagon.

I have no idea how the previous mess got through the preview

[Maxous]

When was this?

ISO 3-18 of your posts

Simple answer, yes.

Explanation since it seems you think otherwise since your asking, just about whenever I shoot someone a question I'm doing it to get a read. Whether if it's seeing if it's an unfounded accusation, seeing the reasoning in their action, or simply seeing how they react.

My issue is that all of your questioning was on people that suspected you first.

I don't like the posts between him and silverbullet

Which posts do you not like?
Why?

For the record I never said I think Silver and Subzero are bussing

[Maxous]

Eh, sure >_>

By the way DK, did you intentionally not mention jmurph3?


Mafia - Silverbullet, Toon fighter

Meh(suspect) - Nobody Special, Amor, Mr.Zepher, Mastin2,

Town - Everyone else (also to varying degrees)

[Maxous]

If we have a Vig (or Sk who wishes to be thought of as such) I will give sloppy kisses for a DK kill.

If somebody vigs or mislynches obvtown DK I will not be amused.
The same applies for Pine.

Mastin's refusal to help with Silver's inevitable lynch is major scumpoints if Silver flips Town.

I agree
Stregthened by Mastin's "I was'nt expecting that response" in the next post.

List of those I Suspect: Nhammen (explained below) Pine, and slightly the rest of my wagon

=====[]

Toon fighter - Explain this please.
What changed your mind?

Yeah getting real bad vibes from Mastin.

RE: Lynching Nobody Special - Not really a good idea. Ask him to put the time into the game or replace out.
The problem with lynching somebody who has lurked like that is, if he flips town we gain minimal information out of his lynch and it's basically a waste.

Not sure what to make of this. :/ Emm hmm..I'll see what he says.

[Maxous]

Shit

Unvote

VOTE: Toon Fighter

Willing for Amor either.

[Maxous]

Bah, fine

Unvote

VOTE: Amor

We'll talk about Toon Fighter on day 2.
I really wish this was'nt left so late

[Maxous]

@Toon: That thought has crossed my mind but I'm not willing to risk it right now.

Re-voting right before the deadline, are you guys sure?

Did you read this post?
Short version : Mastin claims cop who claims Silverbullet is town. Find another lynch before deadline. ^_^

P-Edit: Preferrably one that

is'nt Subzero

.

[Maxous]

^
My thoughts exectly. Whoops should of read the rules >_>

Ehh back on Toon fighter then

unvote

VOTE: Toon Fighter

The reason why I switched is because I figured I would'nt get the 9 votes on Toon.
However if we only need a

majority

then that is more possible.

Anybody wanna explain why they think he is town?

[Maxous]

Just to make it clear I will support an Amor lynch over a Subzero lynch, if there is not enough interest in lynching in lynching Toon.

I apologise for being all over the place with the last couple of posts but I was really caught on the hop by this last minute cop claim.

[Maxous]

Don't have a lot of time..just skimmed.

Mason claim eliminates my growing Thor suspicion

I don't completely buy Mastin to be honest.. his actions seem too weird.. along with his insistence of not lynching Toon Fighter.
Maybe it's just a disagreement of how he used the power.. I'll have to look over him during the night period (he's obv not going to be the lynch today)
I will say regardless of Mastin's alignment, Silver should be town. It would too high of a risk for a mafia to claim an innocent on his buddy Day 1, since there is a plausibility of having a third party of something. (There may or may not be one but pratically scum are not going to take that risk)

No time to drag up the quotes but Toon fighter was earlier saying we should lynch Subzero or Silver - I don't like thier posts etc.
Looks very opportunistic seeing as how they are both probably town.
And then he said if Mastin and Silver don't die on N1 they are scum so lynch them (From what I remember).
I don't see town motovation in saying that at all. Along with my earlier suspicions..I'm confident here.

@Pine: The three of them are not gambiting scum claiming masons. There is not a chance they'll all live to LYLO in this game, you'll get a flip sooner or later.

[Maxous]

I disagree that is was rolefishing.

Somebody explain to DK what a mason is..

Okay

seriously going now

[Maxous]

Okay so there was a drawback to the masons. That balances the game out more...to be honest at the end of Day 1, I was a bit fearful of what the mafia could do o_O

I was meant to re-read Amor during the night period but I did'nt get around to it. I will by the next post.

@Toon fighter: What is your opinion on Mastin and Silverbullet right now?
Town, mafia, neutral?

I am willing to explain my reads if necessary

Please do..

@Deity Kabuto: Why is Toon Fighter scum?

[Maxous]

So I came by to start my Amor re-read....

and really?

Shit, I was convinced DK was town.. bleh

I think Toon Fighter bussed him though. His suspicion and vote came out of nowhere and the manner of how he went about it looks like he received instructions to do it during the night.
So yes I still think Toon is mafia.

Only one hesitiation.
@Mastin: If you can still use your day ability use it by your next post.
Then somebody hammer.

[Maxous]

Pretty sure Pine was joking there..
Obviously we ignore lists and 'suspects' given by caught mafia.

Why, if I were, mafia, would I bus both Amor and DK?

So you could turn around afterwards and say 'I am town because why as mafia would I do this...'

[Maxous]

The fact that DK hasn't been modkilled by now says that he's given the scum a gambit of sorts

*Sounding like a broken record

Ignore the list, I cannot stress that enough.
Caught mafia only do things like that to confuse the town and have them running around like headless chickens trying to double-guess them. Just play like normal and don't waste your time on it.

[Maxous]

Ugh, enough

VOTE: Deity Kabuto

Nobody Special won't get night killed. Himself and Uite and whoever can catch up during the night period.
The reason I stalled was so mastin could do his thing, and he has.
It will be better to talk about the suspects

after

we get the night 2 flips.

[Maxous]

I will also join the 'going to re-read club'. I skimmed above and Silverbullet is not a cop clear anymore.

Having a look at the two lynches and two near lynches. (basically the significant bandwagons)
Legend:

Blue - town

Red - mafia

Puple - Mise fein

Silver bullet -

Maxous

,

SubzeroSith

, Pine, nhammen ,

Deity Kabuto

,

Surye

,

Knight of Cydonia

, Toon fighter

Subzero Sith

- Mastin2, Pine, Toon Fighter,

Surye,

Deity Kabuto

Amor

-

Thor665

,

Knight of Cydonia

, Mr.Zepher, mastin2, Pine, Toon Fighter, nhammen

Deity Kabuto

- Toon Fighter, mastin 2,

jmurph3

, Pine, nhammen,

Surye

,

Maxous

Initial thoughts here is that Pine and Toon look bad. On all 4 wagons. *must look into all reasoning.
Mastin2 was on 3 and expressed interest in a Silverbullet lynch until he fake claimed - I'll get to you guys on Mastin, i'm just confused about him at this stage
I seen a vote for Mr.Zepher but looking at this puts him in a better light. The only lynch he joined was the Amor one.
nhammen was on 3 of them, crucially however he was'nt on the confirmed town bandwagon. This is looking slightly good for him.
Uite, Silver Bullet and Nobody Special were'nt on any of them. Meh

Also - speculation rambling about the night kill:

Knight of Cydonia was a cop. He never claimed(though he gave a hint Day 1).
KOC unclaimed was still a possible mislynch and was not actively scumhunting, so he was killed solely for having a cop power.
=> The mafia knew he was a cop.
The hint KOC gave came day 1

not

day 2. KOC was then killed night 2 not night 1. The order seems a bit messed up, you take out the cop then the masons. The masons cannot receive a guilty on you.
=> They mafia only discovered KOC was a cop day 2. But he did'nt give a hint.
Basically I suspect the mafia had the means to find out KOC's power night 1. Quite possibly a rolecop, but maybe a tracker or something.
Deity Kabuto flipped a mafia goon, who was not a power role. As DK was also not a strong player he would be considered expendable to some degree, first choice to throw to the wolves if needs be.
This was reflected in Amor's attitude towards him in trying to stall the Silverbullet wagon and change it to a DK wagon.

The mafia would of wanted to protect certain members(including Amor) more than DK. I'm keeping this in mind (might come to nothing but we'll see ^_^)

[Maxous]

^
Well I never intended it to be conclusive. It's just one of the angles I'm looking at. (It's obviously not going to fully work because of Uite's ann NS' releative inactivity Day 1)
From memory it looks good that you attacked Amor but not DK though.

[Maxous]

It's been apparent from the start that Pine has a hesticancy with Mastin from previous games.
I would take his actions with a pinch of salt.

[Maxous]

... I'm gonna rage soon... so for the bettering of this game and providing info and what not.. please fucking lynch me

VOTE: Silverbullet

I'm flipping VT.

I would love to hear how voting for yourself betters the game and gives the town

more information

[Maxous]

You trust mastin then?

[Maxous]

...you want to re-phrase that?
I consulted two people as well on this - "Pessimistically yes but i only trust him as far as i can throw him" means no you don't trust him.

But you're willing to get yourself lynched to provide him information and stop the town questioning you and stop the town getting bored.
You were under no guarantee to get lynched today, in fact I was thinking of pursuing a different player... but this does'nt add up

/avoiding putting Silver at L-1.

[Maxous]

Toon - do you think Silver is mafia or are you voting him for being anti-town? ~_~

[Maxous]

Okay.
And is there anyone you currently suspect to be mafia in this game Toon Fighter?

[Maxous]

^
Maybe Uite.
Would you still support a Toon Fighter lynch?

[Maxous]

Nope, nothing has cleared Toon.

By the way no-one should hammer *at least* until NS and Uite take a stance on a read.

[Maxous]

Apart from the mason I mean :p

[Maxous]

^
That is a fair point.
Although: @Toon: Mafia reads please.

[Maxous]

This game, I swear.

You know I've seen mafia do this before as a excuse to lurk and to avoid taking solid stances on any of the players in the game.
Explain why Pine and Mastin are a team please.

The Townies amongst this crowd moving have been persuaded by Mastin's constant barrage of arguments through repetition, and the scum amngst you are taint advantage of it.

Who/what scum are taking advantage of it?
Re - post 759 : Do

you

have a reason to think that I am mafia? Or Mr.Zepher? Why did you mention that?

[Maxous]

^
Yeah this is starting to look over-done.
Like if he keeps doing it he will keep the lynch off himself.

[Maxous]

Wondering how I forgot this up until now..

Later on, Subzero had explained his vote on Toon Fighter, and why he think Toon Fighter is scum. His reasons were valid, but also more of an assumption. This caused Toon Fighter to lose his temper and snap on SubzeroSith, at the same time, he seems like an innocent townie

He defended Toon Fighter!
And then Toon used that excuse
Yeah I'm getting more confident here.

Come to think of that post is a good place to look for buddies. I mean okay, it looks bad for me being so low but still..
Will examine more later.

[Maxous]

Okay I decided to do it now instead..

silverbullet999 - 55% (Trollish?)

Would you call you're buddy a troll? Doubtful.

mastin2 - 50% (unsure if his vote on SubzeroSith was random or not, just replaced in so he missed the RVS stage though)

No opinion on Mastin - but Mastin did just replace in..

MrZepher - 58% (he seems to be playing it a bit too safe on post #77)

Mr.Zepher is looking more like town.

Pine - 60% (serious RV, never really explained his vote unlike how Subzero did)

Looks good for Pine

Toon Fighter - 53% (he seems kind of innocent, but lost his "cool" when he voted SubzeroSith claiming his reasons "bs")

As I said above this looks like lightly defending to me.

nhammen - 50%

No comment at all? Hmm suspicious. DK did'nt give Thor a comment either however.

Nobody Special - 53% (admitted earlier on that he wasn't that interested in the game, and not contributing much)

Uite - 60% (claimed he would start posting and failed to do so)

Surye - 60% (placed a vote, then went under the radar, inactive)

DarthYoshi - 60% (not posting/contributing much)

Very interesting contrast in DK's attitude to Nobody Special compared to the other 3 players who were doing pretty much the same thing.
Looks suspicious about NS.

[Maxous]

I didn't say they were. I just put out the idea as a hypothetical. I have seen scumteams argue like this.

And do you have any other mafia hypotheticals..or reads..or anything?

I keep forgetting there's a vig >~<

Well we are considering the possibility that the second kill comes from a vig and then also the possibility that the kill comes from a SK.
Because we don't know for sure of course.

Indeed. I calculated we'd safely be able to take at least two of them out (preferably Silver and Pine) before we're in the danger zone. I forget the calculations beyond that.

[/quote]
Soooo you think this game has 5 mafia?

[Maxous]

Pine is probably town..

The arguement from NS' on Pine makes little sense. Considering if preferred lynch target.
I outlined how DK's attitude towards NS was different than his attitude towards others doing the same thing.
Treating people in a different way can be a sign of a mafia partner.

I really should do a full re-read of Amor and DK in Day 1 instead of being so lazy >_>

[Maxous]

Finally re-read. Yay! >_>

I am less confident about Toon Fighter being mafia. Amor attacked Toon a lot during the day 1, and actively tries to get him lynched. Plus this comment makes Toon seem town
The way Amor avoided the Silver-Sub arguement like a plague and the method in which DK attacked Sub a lot during his near lynch makes me think Silver is town.
DK and Amor made a couple of light attacks towards Pine as well. Pine looks a bit more towny.
Zepher went after Amor a lot during Day 1. Even when he was'nt under pressure - still think he is town.
nhammen seems kinda town due to this post and he scumhunted Amor quite a bit.

If I am to say those 5 are town that leaves -Uite, NS, Mastin.
I am probably incorrect about somebody however.

Get your WIFOM caps on..

List of those I think are Scum: silverbullet999
List of those I Suspect: mastin,

SubzeroSith

, Toon Fighter,

Wraith

, Uite
List of those I think are Town:

Knight of Cydonia

, nhammen,

Amor

, MrZepher,

Surye

,

Maxous

, Nobody Special,

Thor665

, Pine,

jmurph3

I suspect he would of put a buddy in the second column.
And I still maintain DK's attitude towards NS was different than others doing the same things.

[Maxous]

It's basically a sheet that keeps track of the votes and wagons.

You'll see everybody has a particular colour and the number is the size of the bandwagon at the time of the post number to the left hand side.

[Maxous]

VCA's and ISO's are fine to use as long as theyu are'nt the sole reason you are voting somebody. They can increase/decrease confidence in reads.

Speaking of which I'm in a bit of a stump here of who to go for. Looking through DK's and Amor's behaviour Day 1 is suggesting Silverbullet is not thier buddy.
I would vote NS right now but Knight of Cydonia seems to of breadcrumbed a clear on him.
I think Pine is town. I think nhammen is town.

Toon fighter's behaviour strongly suggests mafia to me but the flipped mafia's attitude to him puts me off the idea of them being a team..
I suppose Mr.Zepher could of simply bussed Amor because he was'nt sure who to go for. He has'nt voted a lot in this game.. idk

Mastin as mafia? He is hard to read. Uite - maybe.

Lynching Pine is a bad idea - the roleblocking will be useful considering the amount of mafia left. They will prob night kill him eventually.

[Maxous]

Lawl did'nt notice that.

Gonna make a choice here...
VOTE: Mr.Zepher

This is through process of elimination to be honest.

[Maxous]

Mastin remaining on the Silver BW almost confirms him as some kind of scum. Mastin isn't that dumb. The rest of you apparently are.

Yet your last 3 votes were not on Mastin..

Also, Pine, if you're a town RB like you claim, you need to block someone inside of those names. And a doctor if existing should protect OUTSIDE those names.

And the potential PR's are'nt among those names at all because..?

likely-to-be-scum list {Maxous, Mastin, maybe Toon or nhamman}.

So you explained mastin..kinda explained Toon.
From what I can gather your suspicion of me is based on voting Zepher, when I called him likely town earlier(which seems to be a misunderstanding here). and I don't remember seeing anything on nhammen from you. That list seems odd from you.

I could get on a Maxous lynch too, and since I don't see this day going anywhere
unvote, vote: Maxous

And I am a better lynch than Silverbullet now because...?

@Zepher - So have you concluded if I am scummy or not yet?

[Maxous]

So I am #3 preference now?
And why am I a better lynch now rather than Zepher and Uite?

[Maxous]

. Adding nhamman to the list was largely spur-of-the-moment, and due largely to his recent string of odd posts

What is odd about his posts?

As for Mr.Zepher - yes I was thinking he was town because of how he attacked Amor during Day 1.
But looking back - I trust Knight of Cydonia would of been savy enough to breadcrumb a cop result. So NS is mostly clear.
I suppose Uite could of faked this 'townslip' but probably not.
I just feel Pine and nhammen are town from how they have posted. They are simply town reads.
As for Mastin - he seems to be a fan of gambiting(judging from his discussion posts) and he was going on about how he had some plan during Day 1 after he claimed Day-Cop. Meh, he seems town.
I find that Toon Fighter's and Silverbullet's individual play point to them being mafia. Interactions from Amor and DK point to them being town. So I'm unsure what to do about them.

So that leaves Mr.Zepher. He did have a couple of scummy posts during Day 1 and I'm thinking now he just managed to distance himself well from Amor who he might of sensed was in trouble(upon reflection he only voted Amor

after

Subzero claimed mason)

[Maxous]

Ehh thinking about it.. I will support a Mr.Zepher(first preference) or a Toon Fighter lynch today. =D

nhammen ain't getting lynched.
I doubt Silverbullet will be lynched at this stage either.

I.E. good time to be start making decisions and compromises. Let's try to avoid a last-minute rush lynch yes?

[Maxous]

I'll admit my reasoning was terribad, but it would have been worse if I had put my vote on a townie no?

This really makes it sound like you were bussing.

Besides, I don't think there was enough suspicion on Amor at the point to warrant a bus from any one of his scum buddies.

Tis why I thought you were town earlier.
However you only stated gut reads on Amor early on.
Your vote on Amor only came

after

the Silverbullet wagon had dissapted and Subzero had claimed mason. So Amor was a very realistic target at that time and it was

only then

that you came with your wall detailing how scummy Amor was.

One thing that really struck me, however, when I was going back through the lead-up to the D1 lynch, is that Maxous really wavered on amor. Kept going back and forth, had a vote on him only for a moment and then very quickly took it off when he realized that it might be possible with plurality voting that amor not be lynched. I dunno, it just seems hella scummy to me. Enough for me to VOTE: Maxous

Meh, I was unsure about Amor for all of day 1 and only voted him because I did'nt think there was enough support for 9 votes on Toon. He was a compromise wagon.
When I learned that we did'nt need 9 votes I went with my preferred lynch.
This was all explained on Day 1

[Maxous]

And if a Pine lynch does'nt happen who would you choose Nobody Special?

[Maxous]

How convienent...

You mind explaining why Mastin?

[Maxous]

Have you READ the interaction between you and Zepher? No way is it town-on-town. Heck, it's possible (albeit highly improbable) that it's scum-on-scum.

This explains nothing and you have committed one of my personal top scumtells.
Why is it not town-on-town?

[Maxous]

Give me a break.
You said it's 'not town-on-town.'
I asked you to explain why it is not town-on-town. Twice.

[Maxous]

It's asking somebody to explain a baseless accusation.

I'm not so arrogant as to not consider the possibility I am wrong about Zepher.

[Maxous]

Oh no no no

You came out with there is "one scum in there". Implying either myself or Mr.Zepher is mafia.
I asked you to explain why.
Eventually you come up with a post explaining why *I* am mafia. Not why

either of us

is mafia like you basically stated - why I am mafia.(which about half was information rather than analysis)

If you voted because you thought I am mafia for such reasons you would of said so in the first place. But you did'nt - you strongly implied it was either/or.

You then went through my ISO without looking at the context. So you were'nt analysing my posts to see if I am mafia.
If you thought I was mafia for such reasons you would of

already

looked at the context and decided.
Your sole purpose for going through my ISO was to find reasons why your vote was correct.
You voted/called me mafia first

then afterwards

you looked for reasons why.

You sir, are a chancer

unvote

VOTE: Mastin

[Maxous]

You are lawlz Mastin.
Let's do a quick re-cap.

Max vs Zepher is not town on town. There is one scum
Why?
Have you read the interaction? There is no way it is town-on-town. ***N.B. - Mastin clearly implies that it is reasoning from our posts. He does'nt mention any sort of gut or instinct read all.
Why Mastin?
Because it is'nt. - 'I can't think of a reason why..ehh it's instinctive' 'And you are scum because you would also think it's not town on town.' Let's keep this in context here - Not being town vs town was mastin's words. Asking him why it's not town on town was myself asking mastin to explain a statement that he made

that he has yet to show a reasoning for

.
Furthermore if I had a gut read on something that was scummy,

I would check why before I voted.

He voted me then looked for reasons why I am mafia.
Then yeah a case of why Maxous is mafia - frackin admitting his sole purpose is to find reasons to justify his posts. It is almost as if he was'nt interested in properly determining my alignment. Oh and suddenly he comes out with reasonings for why I am mafia when pushed. It's no longer instinct because he was called on it.
He is making this up as he goes along.

Post 905 boils down to - 'I had an instinct that either yourself or Zepher was scum so I voted. I did'nt check either of your posts to verify this feeling - why would I do that? And your response makes you scum'
I voted you because you are lying here and I am honestly surprised nobody else has picked up on this.

Now it seems like he's blatantly trying to challenge Mastin's points against him to gain town credibility back.

Trying to get town cre... Mastin.Is.Full.Of.Rubbish.Here.

Also, Maxous, if you are Town, I don't understand how you could possibly do PoE in this game. It doesn't make sense.

I was struggling with my scum reads. My top 2 - silverbullet and Toon - had favourable interactions with Amor and DK (in terms of being town) so I was hestitant of pursuing them.
So when you are struggling on scum reads I find a viable option is to list all your town reads in terms of strongest to weakest and lynch the weakest one.

Toon Fighter - you have yet to explain

one single reason

why you think I'm mafia.

But Mastin is actually clever enough to do that it seems...

Cheers for this by the way.

Quick reasoning why Mastin is mafia
=> Votes me stating myself of Zeph is mafia with no reasoning. Two (I'm gonna assume Mastin scum=Zepher town) townies arguing - oh there has to scum there. When one flips town let's just lynch the other one. This was the scumtell I mentioned, I have seen mafia do this a lot before. It is opportunistic bandwagoning.
=> Implies there is a reason through posts. He has no reason. This comes from the guy that writes walls of reasoning.
=> He then changes it to instinct. If it was truly instinct he would of checked why he had that feeling and most importantly he would of mentioned that in the first 2 posts. He did'nt. Therefore he made it up when he was asked to explain why.

[Maxous]

For those wondering - I am vanilla town.

If I get lynched here.. so be it - But I swear if Mastin survives to endgame and coasts to a scum win

I will haunt you all forever.

Mastin mafia probably means Toon mafia BTW

[Maxous]

Spoiler:

Yeah, it's from your posts. Key words.

So it was from my posts? Or both our posts?
If it was the former - you would of said I think max is mafia here, not I think one of them is mafia.
If it was the latter - You would of pointed out what was scummy from Mr.Zepher's posts.

Does not contradict with "reasoning from posts". It's instinctive, but it's because of certain reasons from the posts.

Which you only mentioned on your sixth post regarding the matter. If you were genuine you would of mentioned it in the first 2.

And you did'nt explained why it could of been Zepher either

I am not you. 'Sides, wasn't gut. Was something else.

Instinct and gut are the same.

Bit of a strawman. I voted you thinkin' you were more likely scum, then your reaction proved it to be true.

Indeed. I was not sure. I knew one of you was scum, but wasn't sure which one. I went with you rather than Zepher,

though I don't remember why. (Might've been that I saw more potential support for your lynch,

might've been that I felt you were slightly more likely.

Keep your story straight. Inconsistency ahoy!

I checked the posts witht eh immediate discussion, a page or two Ibelieve it was, and I confirmed it then. I figured oit sentially from only a couple poages that you weren't both town

This does'nt add up. If you checked it already you would of had the reasons you came out with in Post 899. But you never said that in 886 or 889

Didn't I say in the first post "There's no way their interaction is town on town", or something like that? That's not "no reasoning". That's giving a reason which isn't fully elaborated on at the time of the post, since it's a difficult thing to explain, but it's still a reason, nonetheless.

And yet after I asked 2-3 times you never gave an elaboration. Or any reason other than instinct.

This is quite false. I said that it WASN'T two townies arguing. You're flailing scum here, especially for the bolde.d And italicizer in [paticula. Oh and nderlined, too.

My point is if you flip mafia,I will be considering Zepher as town...

I advocated the same thing with Pine/Silver earlier and you had no objections. Only when it turned to YOURSELF tid you suddenly display suspicion of it, despitehow I had been doing this for the whole day without you objecting, from my memory.
Addthat to the list of contradictions against Maxous, shall we?

Lawl.
That was a completely different scenario. You explained reasons why you thought either Pine and Silver was mafia. And crucially they were'nt arguing or connected to each-other in any way.
What you did here was see two people argue and declare one of them must be scum for no tangible reason.

It shold be quite obviousthat I have trouble explaining my reasons, but that they exist.

You did'nt even try.

Arguing about semantics between feeling and instinct does nothing here.

Updated reasons why Mastin is mafia

=> Votes me stating myself or Zeph is mafia with no reasoning. Two (I'm gonna assume Mastin scum=Zepher town) townies arguing - oh there has to scum there. When one flips town let's just lynch the other one. This was the scumtell I mentioned, I have seen mafia do this a lot before. It is opportunistic bandwagoning.
=> Implies there is a reason through posts. He has no reason. This comes from the guy that writes walls of reasoning.
=> He then changes it to instinct. If it was truly instinct he would of checked why he had that feeling and most importantly he would of mentioned that in the first 2 posts. He did'nt. Therefore he made it up when he was asked to explain why.
=> He changed the reasoning he had of why he voted me. He first said he could'nt remember and it was maybe because my lynch was more realistic or maybe because he thought I was slightly scummier. This changed to he felt that I was scummier.(as in definite)
=> He claimed he double-checked our posts before he made his vote but evidence shows that it is unlikely that he did.

Updated reasons why I am town

Maxous (5) - Toon Fighter,

jmurph3,

Mastin, Pine, Mr.Zepher

I maintain Pine is likely to be town - but who thinks this wagon is gonna flip scum?

[Maxous]

But--just for the sake of argument--let's say you DO flip town. Well, then, we know there's likely one scum on you. (I wouldn't think both would risk it on a town lynch at this stage in the game. Too risky, since after the mislynch, we WOULD be analyzing the wagon.) And one of those names is Zepher. See where this is going?

Before I adress the rest - this is important.
Why is Zepher scum from our interaction when I flip town?

[Maxous]

Do you think I don't know how many votes are on me Pine?

I could explain what is wrong about Mastin's #960 but I should'nt have to.

[Maxous]

Pine - why a SK rather than a vig?

[Maxous]

Wait that's poorly worded >_>

Why do you think there is a Serial Killer in this game rather than thinking there is a vigilante in this game?

[Maxous]

Oh no worries. It's just that Pine seems assuming here - with what Toon mentioned and all. - I think that may of been the first point I agree with that Toon has made in this game . I saw what he saw, the first time.
Well if there is a SK remember that he likely killed Wraith on N1...of all people. There would be an

obvious

suspect for a SK based on that kill. Maybe too obvious though.
Then again that kill seemed a bit of an odd choice for a vig as well.
I look forward to asking why the killer chose Wraith (well if I'm around - but I hope somebody asks). Surye had an obvious reason for being killed (Mastin telling him to)

[Maxous]

...he claimed to being a vigilante

@Toon Fighter: Why did you kill Wriath N1?
Who did you aim at last night?

I seriously expected not be alive.. :/

[Maxous]

Pine makes little sense.. of course Toon Fighter was the second kill source.
And it seems

he did

read that part where Toon claimed. His kills were'nt pro-town.'Oh apart from the Surye one' which was

half his kills.

And only after he voted did he ask for an explanation of why Wraith was killed.
And this is not to mention how Pine seems overly worried about the presence of a SK in this game. FFS I had him as my strongest town-read earlier.

Toon Fighter is not mafia. It would make such negative sense to counterclaim a vig as mafia.
It's quite unlikely he is a SK either. Would you immediatly cc a vig and hammer instead of going 'oh shit is he really a vig? Gotta be careful'. Because if Mastion actually flipped vig we would know Toon is a SK.
So yeah Toon is town and I'm taking a truckload of egg on my face.

Trivia question: Who can tell me Toon Fighter's last vote before he hammered Mastin?

VOTE: Pine

[Maxous]

Yeah..remember Nobody Special is the (likely)cop clear.

I agree with nhammen that is likely mafia would of thought the doc would be on Toon. It's where I would of expected him to be anyway.

Zepher has acted more town in the last 2 pages than in the rest of the game combined. Colour Maxous confused. And I would very strongly advise thinking up of that alternate plan.

Zepher - However, I don't get why you did'nt bring up all those ISO reasons earlier. You have been calling me mafia for a while and even when the wagon on me was being pulled apart you did'nt..you only did when Silver asked. Do you understand why I came down on Mastin like a ton of bricks?

Before I go into something, I want a question answered.

Pine

- why do you think you made a mistake roleblocking Toon Fighter last night?

[Maxous]

Zepher has acted more town in the last 2 pages than in the rest of the game combined.

Okay, actually this was rude. I apologise.
Point is he is looking more likely town now than previously.

[Maxous]

Gaah,
Earlier in the day Pine said he did'nt beleive Toon's vig claim and he is scum. He then went to 'perhaps it was the wrong choice'. It's not the wrong choice if you beleive he is scum. And you either beleive the claim or not. Or at least show a reason why you changed your mind.(he did'nt)
He votes me saying he is just as certain of me being scum as Toon. So he is 'certain' that Toon is indeed a SK scum and his higher priority is finding the SK but he is voting for who he thinks is mafia.
Silver says his explanation is bad. Pine says it is because he made a simple mistake. But now it is not truly a mistake as he still thinks Toon is a SK.


Confused? Because I am.
He seems to be just answering the questions while not keeping the same thought process. His posts are not consistent with him beleiving Toon to be a SK and wheter or not he made a mistake blocking him.

Oh and no-one seemed to of gotten my hint earlier. Who was the last person Toon voted before he hammered Mastin? Pine.
If Pine is mafia he had every reason to roleblock Toon. (he would'nt of risked Toon shooting him)

[Maxous]

Well now I just feel silly.

[Maxous]

If Toon is a vig, then blocking him was a mistake, period. If he's SK, blocking him was STILL probably a mistake, as he says he was gunning for you, Max. quadz PMed me just before deadline asking who to block, and I didn't consider the full ramifications of blocking my SK-suspect.

It's kinda my point..it was a mistake because he was'nt aiming for you like you suspected.

Like, not to be discrediting cop information, it's just given NS's current position, and his ISO being void of any useful content, lurking, and from what I've seen he's been pretty friendly to the scum suspicions thus far.

NS would be my second choice for today as well.

Why do you think NS is mafia anyway? I think I missed it.

Post 1087 also rubs me the wrong way. There is absolutely no reason to clear Nobody Special. "Because the cop "hinted" at it" doesn't cut it at all. He easily could have seen him as ObvTown just like Mastin with Toon.

No, KOC did not see NS as 'obvtown'.
And I would like to think KOC was good enough to breadcrumb his result in case he flipped.
In this post he particulary mentioned NS as town and nobody else. There was no need to address NS at all at this point, we were'nt talking about him.
And this happened to be the a player that was very lurky throughout Day 1 and would of been a very suitable cop investigation.

As for Pine i take that point and the counter-claim does look towny upon re-reading.

unvote

for now.
I feel I'm missing something here. Re-think required.

[Maxous]

Okay, but why only now? NS has been doing this the whole game.
Did you have suspicion on NS in the earlier day periods?

[Maxous]

Mr. Zepher - how do you go from finding somebody to be likely scum on Day 1 to having a gut town read at the start of Day 4 when you are not paying attention to him?
Furthermore why did you have a gut town read on him at the start of Day 4 when you were paying attention to his posts late Day 3? - his ISO was exactly the same as it is now and it would'nt of taken that long to check.
Also, who is "we" in the "we've discussed suspicions of him throughout the game".

@Silver: Well yes, I guess I am wishfully thinking KOC was nice enough to breadcrumb as he should of.
@Toon: There is no NS/Max scumteam so you may forget that reasoning.

Anyway -

v/la until the 19'th

[Maxous]

Yeah, point taken Toon.

Pine's post made me laugh... a lot xD

Okay nooow I'm gone

[Maxous]

Apparently I have been missed.
I will post tomorrow - I'm tired after the weekend.

[Maxous]

Pine - do you think Toon Fighter is a SK? Y/N

@Toon: Why do you only beleive

now

that KOC is telling the truth? Why not earlier when it was first pointed out?

Nobody Special's catch-up post did'nt live up to the hype

Literally has done nothing, normally when he does nothing he's scum

He does'nt do a whole bunch as town either from what I've seen.

Pine and Silver are just arguing like an elderly couple....

As for Mr.Zepher - early Day 1 he suspects NS saying he is likely scum. 343
Now he mentions NS on Day 4 when he says he has a gut town read on him 1064. What changed? Who knows? (By the way he is saying here on Day 4 that he has'nt paid attention to him, while here he said it was Day 3.)
He claims he did'nt pay much attention to NS' posts until late Day 3. He was certainly paying attention to him Day 1.He is also claiming he was'nt paying attention to someone he thought was likely scum?
He also mentions NS on Day 3. So he

was

paying attention to him. And NS is doing the exact same he is now.
Also if NS caught his attention late Day 3 why would he only go through his posts to see 'if he said anything' in post 1074? This is the middle of Day 4 after Silver and Uite are suspecting NS. If he was suspicious of NS earlier he would of checked earlier - NS' posts in this game do not take long to go through.
He also claims he had people that focused his attention but he wrote a post mentioning and explaining his reads of everybody in the game on Day 3.
And then he calls my questioning of his consistency in his suspicions strawmanning
Aside from myself wondering how somebody can possibly strawman an arguement consisting of "read through his ISO", this was a deflection attempt. He simply threw out that term to distract from how his suspicions don't add up.

Tl;dr - When NS was being suspected in Day 1 he called NS 'likely scum'
Then Mastin and KOC gave NS the 'benefit of the doubt' - Mr.Zepher then also claimed to give NS the benefit of the doubt.
Once a NS lynch is on the cards again he is in favour of a NS lynch.
His claim that he was'nt paying attention to NS in the game does'nt wash.

I don't see his suspicions on NS as genuine.
This is similar to how he only strongly attacked Amor(stating nothing but weak gut reads beforehand) when the tide turned against Amor and his lynch was likely(after Subzero claimed Mason) and how he was dancing around his suspicion of me until after other players in the game had started looking for my lynch.
Going with the flow.

unvote

VOTE: Mr.Zepher

[Maxous]

Wtf? When did I accuse you of strawmanning me? I was asking a question!

It appears I have misunderstood.
Why did you ask that question?

He's playing like scum, and my scum reads are putting a good deal of effort in defending him. I want to see the flip.

Between here and here and here no-one defended NS.

P-Edit: NS does'nt look like he is reading the thread..
Bah, it's Knight of Cydonia I trust though.

Zepher if you want to claim something - claim.

[Maxous]

My point was that you concluded NS was scum before anyone defended him.
The Jack of all Trades claim brings up a lot of questions.
Do you mind explaining what you have done the last 3 nights then?

[Maxous]

@Zepher:
Important: Did you breadcrumb?
Why did you softclaim VT?
Does this have a relation to your preference of being vigged rather than lynched?

If what Mr.Zepher says is true then with no cop-clear NS is looking like scum.
I'm going to take a break now and sleep on it.

[Maxous]

Back and yeah, I beleive Mr.Zepher is mafia.

=> He found NS the scummiest person in the game on Night 1 - enough to target him with an 'investigative role', yet he claims he was'nt "paying attention to NS".
=> He also states a gut town read on NS while NS behaves exactly the same in Day 2 and Day 3 as Day 1 - when he found him suspicious enough to 'investigate'. How would he suddenly become town looking?
=> He says my vote is paper thin because he does'nt remember every point in which he suspected NS. How in the world do you forget someone that you found so scummy, you targeted him with an 'investigative role'.
=> He says he targeted NS with a

watcher

ability because he found him the scummiest. If you are a watcher the last person you target is your suspects. The mafia are not going to night kill thier buddy. The chances are slim mafia would target NS at all. And NS is hardly gonna target himself. The clear town watcher target was the masons.
=> This is way too coincidental that he targeted the

one person

that has a cop-clear on them with the

exact role

in which he says he can show NS is not cop-cleared

And he also softclaimed VT a couple of times earlier in the game under virtually no pressure. He has changed his claim here.

[Maxous]

You're welcome.

[Maxous]

@mod: Can you delete the above post please?

How am I supposed to give a fuck about somebody I didn't ever get a result on?

Completely missing the point. If somebody is scummy enough for you to investigate you don't randomly decide they are not scummy anymore for no reason.

You're not even looking at the fact that I never for a second considered the KoC "breadcrumbed result" as accurate or justified.

You have just as much reason as scum to dismiss it.

Do you even know where I soft claimed Maxous? If you look back can you think of any sort of town motivation I could have for said soft claiming?

Here yes?
So the town will only lose a VT if you are lynched... yet you claim to be a power role so this and the calls to be vigged make little sense if you were trying to 'prevent mafia from NK you'. Does'nt add up.

Are there ANY other reasons why I could be scum? Do I have any potential scum buddies?

I mentioned it in the last big post. Only following through with your suspicions when others in the town agreed.
As for the scum buddies, why did you ask this? Is my points anyway weaker since I have'nt?

What you're trying to use against me could be mistakes made just as easily as town than as scum.

I am voting for you because your suspicion of NS is inconsistent and looks fake.

[Maxous]

Pine -
Mr.Zepher claimed to be a VT earlier when he did'nt need to. As he was about to be lynched he claims he is a JoaT who had a watcher role and misunderstood how to use his role(because he did'nt use it on the masons like any town would), luckily through this blunder he used it on the one person who was his counter-wagon as he was about to be lynched, and luckily got the exact result he needs to be able to push the NS wagon.
Come on.

[Maxous]

So tell me, Max. What reaction were you fishing for?

An immediate Zepher vote

You beleive him?

And what does the a hypothetical doctor have to with him?

@mod: Can you prod Uite with vengenace before the deadline please?

P-Edit: Well we have an obvious solution here don't we? (hint: Toon Fighter)
Though that would be a convenient fakeclaim.

You know what screw it - nhammen, we are going to need you to claim.

[Maxous]

That is all Uite has to say? Ugh.

Worried that your mate is going to go down?

Correct.
When I see my mafia buddy under a lot of pressure to be lynched when the town has a vig and a mislynch available, I decide the best strategy is to tie myself as closely as possible to my pal, so when he flips scum I can make sure without a doubt I will be next to be lynched.
Lulz

Anyway I'm not risking a no-lynch. I won't be here tomorrow.

Unvote

VOTE: Nobody Special

[Maxous]

Thanks for the moderation Quadz.

Guys - don't fake claim power roles if you don't have one. Both claims strongly helped screw the town over.
I actually agreed with Uite's vote, I would of also went for the Zepher/Silver team.
The mafia team was the better team after D3 onwards and duly won. It certainly was not one of my better games personally.
We were a bit unlucky that the 2 strongest town players were mason lovers but

luck of the draw

I suppose.

Pine is really good at faking emotion, I will have to remember that.