New York 131: Tricycle Mafia (Day 5)

[DeityKabuto]

Subzero:

Sorry, if I'm a bit late answering your post on page 1, but better late than never.

GMT -5
Experience: High up on the ladder of SE and Begginer
Activity: More active on weekends than weekdays.

[DeityKabuto]

Hmm... so atm Subzero is the first one trying to scumhunt this early, and observing this, I can't really say whether Toon is scum or not yet, but Subzero's points are valid and I can actually of agree with him on that reasoning. But I do not like how Toon voted Subzero just for being attacked.

Atm

Vote Toon Fighter

This is a pressure vote.

[DeityKabuto]

@SZS: This is very flimsy, especially at this point in the game at this time of the year, but both games I've played with nhammen have been games where he was scum, and both had very similar playstyles. I'm already seeing parallels in his only three posts so far: he's lurky, but when he does post they look really townie. He was only caught in the first game because he got killed by an SK N1 - he didn't get caught in the second one.

Hm... If you suspect him then start a case on him.

[DeityKabuto]

• KOC and Subzero are likely to be town.
  I think Jmurph is town.
  Ever so slightly leaning town on Wraith.
  nhammen and Mr.Zepher look like town.
  I'm unsure about Thor- I'll see after a couple of more posts.
  VERY unsure about Amor
  Pine looks slightly scummy
  Toon fighter seems like mafia - quite interested in his next post

Everybody else is null due to not having enough content to judge them by apart from:

Unvote

VOTE: Silverbullet

Looks to be active lurking.

Question, if you suspected Toon to be a Mafia, then why vote Silverbullet for active lurking. Are you saying that a lurker will little to no evidence is more Mafia than someone who you just said was Mafia? But if you think that, then start questioning Silverbullet, if he's active, he should answer.

[DeityKabuto]

Hm... If you suspect him then start a case on him.

Who do you currently suspect and why?

I am still building up my suspects list. Right now, I am currently wondering about ToonFighter's case, it was a bit scummy when he placed a vote on someone who voted him and said that they were "bs" reasons. But Townies usually get really upset/frustrated when somebody has voted them, but I really think that he should have kept his cool. Also, I am not liking Knight of Cydonia's style of play, is he being serious or what?

[DeityKabuto]

Question, if you suspected Toon to be a Mafia, then why vote Silverbullet for active lurking. Are you saying that a lurker will little to no evidence is more Mafia than someone who you just said was Mafia? But if you think that, then start questioning Silverbullet, if he's active, he should answer.

What Silverbullet looks to me, is mafia that is not sure where to turn in this game so he ends up saying nothing while trying to look like he scumhunting.
Active lurking is not quite the same as lurking.
Lurking in most cases is a null tell, as the person does'nt have enough time/interest in the game to post a lot.
But with active lurking the player does have enough time and interest but is still saying hardly nothing which is more a scumtell as the player is usually avoiding commiting himself with opinons to keep his options open. Which I think is happening here.

So yes. Silverbullet seems more like mafia to me than Toon fighter.

I see where you're getting at. He hasn't posted at all, though. Perhaps, he should be subbed? In-actives aren't a help to the game, and lurkers can/should only lurk to a certain extent before being prodded.

[DeityKabuto]

Game Observation

Basically, this is my observation of the game so far, and who appears scummy or not. I am making this unbiased, and trying to deliver this reasonably.

At the start of the game, we had a RVS, which is a Random Voting Stage. This happened mostly on pages 1-2. There is not much valid information that can be gained from those posts, but after that the game got a bit interesting. On the first Vote Count, Maxous was already put on a wagon of three votes (Amor, Thor665, Nobody Special) and nhammen was on a wagon of two votes (Pine, Toon Fighter). Interesting how wagons can be formed in the RVS and how quickly they change, but afterwords Pine states that his vote on nhammen was not random and he had a "gut feeling" that he is scum YET he had a vote on nhammen. I really think that Pine should clarify, and explain to us what is making us feel that Toon Fighter is scum. Also how Subzero's RV was serious, was quite interesting. But after a while, Maxous started questioning Subzero and Pine about their serious votes. And then Pine claimed that he thought he had his vote on Toon Fighter, not nhammen, and nhammen was just a random vote. Later on, Subzero had explained his vote on Toon Fighter, and why he think Toon Fighter is scum. His reasons were valid, but also more of an assumption. This caused Toon Fighter to lose his temper and snap on SubzeroSith, at the same time, he seems like an innocent townie. Up to now, people seem to be going about questioning others and carrying on in lite discussions pertaining the game.

100% - you lean towards being scum
50% - neutral
0% - you lean towards being townie

*Everyone started at 50%, and as I re-read the thread, and examined their actions, their percentage either went up or down. In-actives automatically get 10% added to their percentage and I am unaware of who's lurking atm.

Player Statuses:

silverbullet999 - 55% (Trollish?)

SubzeroSith - 53% (serious RV but he explained himself well)

Thor665 - 50%

Amor - 45% (he is playing a smart townie and making statements)

Wraith - 45% (playing it smart, using a meta on nhammen, seems townie)

mastin2 - 50% (unsure if his vote on SubzeroSith was random or not, just replaced in so he missed the RVS stage though)

MrZepher - 58% (he seems to be playing it a bit too safe on post #77)

Pine - 60% (serious RV, never really explained his vote unlike how Subzero did)

Knight of Cydonia - 40% (actively questioning)

Toon Fighter - 53% (he seems kind of innocent, but lost his "cool" when he voted SubzeroSith claiming his reasons "bs")

Maxous - 40% (scum hunting early)

nhammen - 50%

jmurph3 - 40% (scum hunting)

Nobody Special - 53% (admitted earlier on that he wasn't that interested in the game, and not contributing much)

Uite - 60% (claimed he would start posting and failed to do so)

Surye - 60% (placed a vote, then went under the radar, inactive)

DarthYoshi - 60% (not posting/contributing much)

------------------------------------------------

With that said, it seems as if Pine appears more scummy than Toon since he had never really explained to us his vote when he switched from nhammen to Toon Fighter.

Unvote
Vote Pine

[DeityKabuto]

Interesting how wagons can be formed in the RVS and how quickly they change, but afterwords Pine states that his vote on nhammen was not random and he had a "gut feeling" that he is scum YET he had a vote on nhammen.

I've already stated this, but I'll do so again. The "this vote is not random" was intended to accompany a vote on Toon.

The first thing that tipped me off on Toon was how, during the RVS, he piled a second vote onto a truly meaningless one, and tried to make an early wagon out of nothing. Since then, he's scummed up the thread at every turn.

I think you'll find that once you take into consideration the correct interpretation of the "this vote is not random" post, everything I've said makes more sense.

I understand your view on this, but Toon's second vote on SubzeroSith, I see it as purely out of Sith's attacks getting to his emotions so he had placed a vote on him. Imho, Toon seems kind of innocent, but your reasons for voting him aren't that "strong". Also, do people normally think that bandwagons can work early in the game?

[DeityKabuto]

We should probably all just policy lynch Uite for being a lurking lurker.

Uite lurking is typical town Uite

Lurking is bad, Uite is bad, Uite, get the fuck out here and post please.

Sorry guys, I know I should be more active, but I don't really have much to say right now, because I'm still catching up, and it's going a lot slower than I'd like. I put in a couple hours this afternoon, and I'm up to page 5 with plenty of notes. Another session like that and I'll be completely up to speed. You can expect me to be more active when that happens, but it probably won't happen until tomorrow.

Some parts didn't make sense, you said that you are still catching up but it's going a lot "slower" than you'd like. If it is going slow, then I don't see the problem.

[DeityKabuto]

@Mastin2, you think that Pine never explaining his random vote as how SubzeroSith did isn't scummy anymore?

[DeityKabuto]

I don't know what to say about Subzero's and silverbullet999's conversation, but I can infer that Subzero and silverbullet999 are most likely not scum buddies.

[DeityKabuto]

I guess it's time we decide who's more scummier, Silver or Sub. I will expect the rest of you guys read thoroughly examine their actions, and I will do the same. Failing to do so, reads Anti-town.

[DeityKabuto]

mastin you lynch me first, if i flip town you lynch sub, if I flip scum... well you'll lynch sub anyway I hope but yeah, if I flip town you'll lynch sub anyway. Deal?

This post caught my attention.

You are already using "ifs". Why not just claim now?

At least have some faith in yourself, and say "WHEN" I flip town.

Unvote
Vote silverbullet999

[DeityKabuto]

Deity it's a question with conditions..
If I flip town you will lynch sub. I love that everyone is ignoring that I'm asking this and noone is replying.

Regardless I want sub dead.. Is that literally the only reason you think i'm scum?

Also not gonna claim til i'm at l-1.

side-note nhammen is town from his posts.

Okay, so you want Sub dead, do you have probable case? Or a good reason for this?

[DeityKabuto]

.... all of my posts... directed... to him...

why did you ask me to claim btw...

Most claims are done honestly unless done by a scum, but in your position it will make us think ("Is this an honest claim, is he really who he says to be or never-trust a claim, all claims are dishonest, continue the bandwagon?")

[DeityKabuto]

I'm very interested in people who haven't really said much about the silver case. I'm looking at you, Uite.

In case you didn't notice, Silverbullet is on my list of town reads. It's mostly based on meta, but he's really playing like town-SB. I know he's usually a bit random and out there, which always makes him look mildly scummy. Now the trick to deciphering whether he's town or scum is to look at how much sense he's making. I've found that when he's scum, he'll just say whatever, without any coherence at all, but if he's town, you can easily see the thought patterns behind his posts. This game is an obvious case of the latter, so much so that he's one of the few I'm willing to confidently say is Town.

I'm sure there's scum on this wagon, taking advantage of SB's default scumminess. Looking at voting patterns, DeityKabuto clearly stands out. He's placed three votes so far, and all have been on well-developed wagons. He was the fourth vote on the Toon wagon, third on Pine, and fifth on SB's. Looking at his iso, it's a menagerie of stating the obvious, without much thought or analysis, like he's not actually trying to scumhunt.

UNVOTE: Toon Fighter
VOTE: DeityKabuto

That is some reasonable logic there, but I am more of what the "town" wants. If the town wants a certain person lynch, then I will overview the case and gather my own reasoning. Scumhunting itself can make you look scummy, if you don't know what you're doing, which I've experienced in past games.

[DeityKabuto]

jmurph3, I never said that, you are trying to make me look bad. I am just saying, in a game, not everyone can scum hunt, there is the "prey", and there is the "predator". If every single person was the "predator" then things would be really hectic. So instead, there are some townies who actually want to play it safe, instead of turning into the "prey". But in general, I am not good at scum hunting, I don't want to ruin my reputation here.

[DeityKabuto]

FoS: mastin2

I really don't like how you keep going on about the setup of who's scum, and not people's levels of scumming.

You've done this more than once before, if I am correct.

It's not really helping at all, it does not give the town any leads, your opinions aren't that strong, and it's fake-scum hunting imho. I would unvote you, but first I want to see silverbullet999 defend himself against the bandwagon.

[DeityKabuto]

Silver, at this point, I am really confused. You seem kind of innocent, in a way, and a part of me is saying we shouldn't go through with this, but your actions and what you've done says a thing or few.

[DeityKabuto]

270

[DeityKabuto]

Ignore the post above.

Subzero- Read post 279, that is my reason for voting silver. The reason I say silver has some innocence within him, say 40-60% is because other people have way different reasons. Usually, people's reasons for voting someone scummy are kind of the same (meaning they did something really really scummy) or their are multiple reasons (meaning they did many scummy things). Yet, the reasoning on silver, are mumbo-jumbo, all different and jumpy jumpy, get what I'm saying?

[DeityKabuto]

Silver, at this point, I am really confused. You seem kind of innocent, in a way, and a part of me is saying we shouldn't go through with this, but your actions and what you've done says a thing or few.

Subzero- Read post 279, that is my reason for voting silver. The reason I say silver has some innocence within him, say 40-60% is because other people have way different reasons. Usually, people's reasons for voting someone scummy are kind of the same (meaning they did something really really scummy) or their are multiple reasons (meaning they did many scummy things). Yet, the reasoning on silver, are mumbo-jumbo, all different and jumpy jumpy, get what I'm saying?

More hedging. Seems like you want to avoid responsibility if Silver flips town. I think I'm okay with a DK vote now.

Unvote
Vote DeityKabuto

I don't like Mastin setting up lynches for tomorrow, but his arguments for it seem fairly logical. And I agree with Maxous that we definitely still have time for a non-Silver lynch, especially given how scum-filled that wagon looks. (And oh, who's in the exact position I would expect scum to be in on that wagon? My old friend KoC.)

I really don't see how that is scummy at all. You are clearly in the wrong mindset in saying that every few false "hint" is scumminess.

[DeityKabuto]

silver I am not ignoring, you spelled "Deity" as in "Diety" on that post, so it didn't catch my attention, also since you had empty quotes, that made it less attractive. But anyways I will respond now.

[DeityKabuto]

"You said this to mastin, but this doesn't make sense... because your vote isn't on him. Did you actually mean I would vote you?"

Yes.

To your last question, I had already explained my reasons for voting you, they are probably not the same as everybody else, I mean defend yourself in general. Right now, this activity sucks.

[DeityKabuto]

For the record, progress has been kinda slow for me, sorry. I'll inform you of any reads in need of updating, since I believe I've gotten my thoughts out there already. (SubSith, Silver, Amor/Thor, and one of {Wraith, Surye, Zepher, someoneelseIdonotrememberoffthetopofmyhead}, if memory serves. It's still my current read.)

Yes, we need to get this going. I say everyone should be most active Friday-Saturday. If things continue like this, we may reach the deadline without a lynch.

[DeityKabuto]

For the record, progress has been kinda slow for me, sorry. I'll inform you of any reads in need of updating, since I believe I've gotten my thoughts out there already. (SubSith, Silver, Amor/Thor, and one of {Wraith, Surye, Zepher, someoneelseIdonotrememberoffthetopofmyhead}, if memory serves. It's still my current read.)

Yes, we need to get this going. I say everyone should be most active Friday-Saturday. If things continue like this, we may reach the deadline without a lynch.

Nevermind, deadly is in two days, let's start being active.

[DeityKabuto]

Alright then, everyone fill out the following form.

(You do not have to give reasons, they can be examined for it's bias and legitimacy by us as an individual.

List of those I think are Scum:
List of those I Suspect:
List of those I think are Town:

~ Mine ~

List of those I think are Scum: silverbullet999
List of those I Suspect: mastin, SubzeroSith, Toon Fighter, Wraith, Uite
List of those I think are Town: Knight of Cydonia, nhammen, Amor, MrZepher, Surye, Maxous, Nobody Special, Thor665, Pine

[DeityKabuto]

No Maxous, but jmurph hasn't done anything that caught my attention, so he goes as Town.

[DeityKabuto]

@Amor

here

Hey, Sub and Silver might be town and all, I think I'll hop onto DK, I'll also ding Mastin for setting up chain lynches but than also suggest he might be right. Go Mastin, go!

Bwuh? Yeah, I want you dead.

Hey, what makes you feel scummy about me?

[DeityKabuto]

Btw, I could have swore one page ago, you were so certain of your vote on Amor, a change of heart, explain?

You had even said that everyone should get of silver and Sith's case, and vote Amor. Why, are you trying to defend them both?

[DeityKabuto]

Sorry I had to be prodded. Time flies when you're not having fun.

Anyways, I do not and will not support the silver lynch.

However, he'll probably get lynched anyways since deadline is tomorrow, so if I ever get a moment of quiet around this fucking house I'll try to do a re-read with hunting based on his flip.

At the moment, who are your suspects, if any?

Also, what makes you against the lynch?

[DeityKabuto]

Re-voting right before the deadline, are you guys sure?

[DeityKabuto]

@Toon: That thought has crossed my mind but I'm not willing to risk it right now.

Re-voting right before the deadline, are you guys sure?

Did you read this post?
Short version : Mastin claims cop who claims Silverbullet is town. Find another lynch before deadline. ^_^

P-Edit: Preferrably one that

is'nt Subzero

.

Nah. Just got back from school, mind of miscounted a few posts. But that does increase the chances of Sith being scum, as you guys already mentioned.

So, for the moment, I will examine Sith's case.

Unvote
Vote
SubzeroSith

[DeityKabuto]

A few things...

First, Pine's vote is TERRIBLE. He has agreed with us (ICE and I) on both Toon and Silver, <useless ongoing drivel for a full paragraph>

Seriously? You're trying to wipe your scum onto me? I have never voted

with

you. I voted for Silver for my own reasons, following my own logic. It's shit like this that make me certain that your argument with Silver was not Town v. Town. You both employed tactics like this, which are really just elaborate ad hominems and misrepresentation, and at first no one could tell which of you was bad scum and which of you was bad Town. I chose Silver based on his performance in a previous game, and I'm glad that Mastin has now set us back on the right track. It now occurs to me that as soon as the Silver wagon picked up speed, you mostly dropped off the radar. Now suspicion is back onto you in earnest, and you pick up your old scumtactics.

You're the lynch today, and with deadline fast approaching and plurality rules in effect, I'd like to hear a claim out of you.

Actually, I'd have to agree with Sith on your potential scuminess here.

You were one of the big "ring leaders" driving Silver's case.

- A post by you during Silver's case.

More votes on Silver please. It's time. We're getting into that phase where productivity drops and we just start tearing at each other and messing with non-tells while scum sit back in either resignation or satisfaction.

I am not certain of your scuminess, but I am pretty sure there had to be some scum on that wagon.

[DeityKabuto]

I really don't get why people are giving mastin so much credibility. He seemed so intensely sure that I am scum, and so overly confident in his D1 VCA (that didn't even actually look at the votes themselves, how strong they were, just which order they were and time timing) and somehow people are still having faith in him.

His d1 claim was horrible. Because of him, instead of 1 claim, we now have 5. Granted he didn't know that it would end up as so many, but it would have still become 3. Lynching an anti-town player day 1 is completely FINE. You do NOT need to lynch scum on day 1 in order to win as town, and in fact the % chance of town winning after lynching town on day 1 isn't much different than the % chance of town winning after lynching scum on day 1.

The chance of town winning now that 4 power roles are outed on day 1 is, well, I'm not really putting much worry in to this game anymore.

Considering how close we were to the deadline when you did this claim, mastin, you screwed town really hard. If we had sufficient time to change gears and hit another player, it STILL would have been a bad move to out yourself just for 1 player like this.

Furthermore, it would have been a

much

better move to investigate me instead. Should we have investigated scum, you could have easily said "I investigated them, and they are scum" and we would have been lynched. We would have shown town, at which point you say "alright, I don't see town going force with a SZS lynch today, so I'll vote someone else." OR you could have just let it slide, said nothing, and let Mod's rule 7 take care of it and let silver be lynched even with your vote on confirmed town.

This has been a frustrating game indeed.

I agree. Mastin's claim has his ups and downs. The scum will most likely have him dead Day 1 knowing he's cop.

[DeityKabuto]

@DK - your thoughts on Toon and Amor as lynch prospects?

@SK - <3

ToonFighter, he could either be a scum, and knows how to deceive people very well, or just an innocent townie. If Mastin's claim about silver being Townie is correct, that would boost the chance of Toon being scum, lol. As for Sith, he could either be a townie who was attacking another Townie, or a scum attacking an innocent townie, as how I said silver may be innocent.

And for Amor, Amor posts logically, and he seems like a Pro-town sort of guy, I haven't really encountered much with him.

[DeityKabuto]

FoS: nhammen

You would prefer having me lynched, why place a vote on Amor?

That contradicts your logic, now doesn't it?

Also, the reason you suspect me is my terrible town play, hmm?

[DeityKabuto]

vote: DeityKabuto

I don't like the way he tried to protect his godfather when the lynch was imminent. Plus, bad play throughout D1.

I wasn't protecting anyway. Stop trying to make me look bad, scum.

I was partially scum hunting, not defending anyone.

[DeityKabuto]

Wow, you guys really think I'm scum.

Well, it's claim time.

Claim: Pro-Town (Roleblocker)

I can block someone else from using night actions and at the same time night actions can't be used on them.

I used this on mastin N1.

[DeityKabuto]

Nah, screw it. I'll counter-claim. I was debating whether a Jailkeeper and Roleblocker could exist together, hence my hesitancy without an unvote. I rather doubt it. Especially as DK's claimed rolename was "Roleblocker" while describing a Jailkeeper's role.

I am a Town Roleblocker. Deity Kabuto is fakeclaiming.

Fuck it.

I admit, I am scum. I am scum along with Amor, Surye, and Pine.

Screw it!

But, if you think about it. Am I the biggest threat among the lot?

Chose your vote wisely.

[DeityKabuto]

I said who's scum, and whenever I claim, 99.8% of the time, it's honest.

[DeityKabuto]

Anyways, you guys should have come to the conclusion that we shouldn't hammer me yet, let's wait around and get more information for the town. ^^

[DeityKabuto]

Unvote
Vote mastin2

Chaddup! You you... townie!

But you must be bluffing about a Day (Cop Role) thing.

[DeityKabuto]

Scratch that, I'd prefer we wait on the hammer. I'd rather have your reads available to us before we go into night, as if you get NKed, we'd lose those insights.

That is silly.

Mastin himself said that the scum wouldn't lynch him just yet.

[DeityKabuto]

Also: In light of the above, I will treat hammering before NS has posted his analysis to be tantamount to a scumclaim.

I thought I told you to shut up, scum.

I admit, I am scum. I am scum along with Amor, Surye, and Pine.

Eh? What is this?

You and Surye are trying to act like townies?

It is easy for you guys to pretend that I am bluffing and don't know that I am truthful.