New York 134: Planet of Hats (Scum Win!)

[TBuG]

You know you've got some work to do when you want to vote someone then realize you just replaced them.

Will read thoroughly later with thoughts and suspicions.

[TBuG]

Okay, I was very busy today and have only really had the chance to read through the thread twice, but one suspect is standing out pretty prominently in my mine - DeityKabuto. I'm against PLs on principle, but I felt the strong need to ISO and this guy has managed to make the second-most posts despite maybe three of them having any sort of valuable comment whatsoever. He also seems to be a big fan of quote walls without actually giving any real analysis or... anything relevant with them. He just kind of makes stupid comments on them.

[TBuG]

Warning, wall ahead...

First of all, I read once before replacing in and skimmed it a second time, didn't analyze too deeply either time. I ISO'd DK because he stood out to me the most. Just reread it again (well, rereading as I write this) and here be my notes:

18;DeityKabuto - I dislike that he doesn't comment on the PL forming against him, whatsoever.
23;bvoigt - Seems like picking at a hydra for doing something that hydras do.
25;sanchocolates - This post just seems a liiittle off to me, it feels like LOL LOOK HOW TOWN I AM BY WANTING TO SCUMHUNT INSTEAD OF PLING.
27;DeityKabuto - Making a note here that DK said "will be posting reads sometime soon" and I don't recall him ever actually posting said reads.
30;chkballin[glowball] - "Somewhat skeptical of anyone who would immediately join a policy lynch of a person they've probably never played with." Very much agree.
32;DeityKabuto - This post legitimately makes no sense. He bites at sanchocolates for, as far as I can tell, just mentioning him.
34;DeityKabuto - "everything up to Day 2 is fake"
40;sanchocolates - "You can't post reads this early in the game..." You can ALWAYS post reads.
45;Palisade[almond] - Throws a vote at Parabollocks, with no apparent reasoning.
47;Parabollocks - I see this as protown because rage is usually a towntell in my book.
50;chkballin[glowball] - "You can express your frustration with facts." I like this.
60;chkballin[glowball] - More attempting to investigate why people are voting for DK. I'm becoming increasingly curious why my biggest town read becomes a prominent wagon.
63;65536[monk] - Not a fan of the vote thrown on jilynne without reasoning. Which reminds me that I've barely seen any posts out of her.
65;Palisade[almond] - Still no reasoning for his suspicions.
67;DeityKabuto - blahblahi'mawesomeandbetterthanyoublah. "Provide real content, right now I am busying commenting on all my fans (you're on of them), that's my excuse." No, dear, there's no excuse for providing no content. It's entirely possible to provide content while still addressing people's concerns with your play. Oh, wait, you're doing NEITHER.
68;jilynne1991 - "You shouldn't mafia. If you're going to keep playing, you should start playing wisely and actually reading and scumhunting." excellent posting. Wish you did it more.
71;65536[monk] - Cool story bro, you must have something to talk about other than jily being scummy.
72;Palisade[almond] - I'm becoming increasingly more tired with Almond's lack of significant content. Hydras are not an excuse to feed us little tiny comments like this.
77;chkballin[glowball] - Okay, not actually a fan of this post. Intimidation is fine, especially with someone as incorrigible as DK seems to be.
78;jilynne1991 - "I think we should be scumhunting at the moment." Okay, not a fan of the contradictions of this post. She basically admitted she was bandwagoning for pressure instead of scumhunting. If you're going to tell others to scumhunt, please do so yourself.
81;jilynne1991 - I really, really hate whenever someone says they're voting for pressure. Pressure-voting never works if you actually give it away. With that in mind, it generally comes off as a shitty way to justify a vote.
82;chkballin[glowball] - Not a significant tell but DK is

hardly

answering questions.
102;Palisade[?] - Oh, so now that he's getting votes, you'll bite? Cool.
104;Palisade[?] - I'm generally suspicious when players ask others to find their logic for them instead of giving it, repeating it, or pointing them to relevant posts.
107;BeaverWeasel[?] - I don't like how BW jumps in here and only comments on a few things with completely useless or repetitive remarks.
108;DeityKabuto - Unnecessary confrontational post with no comments on anything vaguely relevant, as seems to be the norm.
111;Tomie Uzumaki - Some reasoning would be nice...?
114;Tomie Uzumaki - "She's ignoring a specific player which she shouldn't be doing so based on what she has said so far. Hint: It's the guy who supported the policy lynch against Deity without a reason." This describes a large chunk of the wagon (granted, I'm fairly certain this is about Swag/now me).
116;Taro - Worst first post ever. Bandwagon + outrage that nobody else is bandwagoning.
125;PeregrineV - Hops on Swag without a word.

INTERMISSION: PEREGRINEV
This post really rubbed me the wrong way because I couldn't remember a single post from PeregrineV beforehand. I was

almost

right.
15 - RVS on Thor
125 - Votes Swag
270 - Thinks chkballin is town, wants to hear from Swag prior to lynch
352 - Unvotes for me to weigh in
So, all PeregrineV has done is bandwagon - but, of course, tries to look like he's doing it the right way.

back to analysis.
134;Celebloki - Laundry list of scummy things that DK does; doesn't appear to have any read on him whatsoever.
140;BeaverWeasel - Raises a good point that Swag is new

here

. Had I not replaced Swag I'd dismiss it as stupid, but as I know that I'm town, I see it as valid.
143;Thor655 - You have lots of opinions. You don't appear to back them up with reasons.
147;chkballin[glowball] - I like this entire post.
157;Knight of Cydonia - Avoids discussing anything that is going on in favor of jumping on DK again.

INTERMISSION: KNIGHT OF CYDONIA
I couldn't remember KoC saying anything about anyone other than DK. I was right.
5 - RVS self-vote
42,54,69,75,157,159,207 - tunneling on DK
210 - Insulting someone against PLing (granted, it was actually a viable comment, kryptinen's post was retarded)
292 - Unvoting DK and seeming to hint that he has a vig kill?

158;DeityKabuto - More tunnelling on anyone who insults him.
163;Taro - Failvotes himself; the intention was to join the new bandwagon.

INTERMISSION: TARO
116 - Bandwagons DK
163,175 - Bandwagons Swag
179,188 - pointless
237 - STFU I LIEK CONTENTLESS BANDWAGONS MY LIEF IS HARD
355 - This I actually agree with, glowball/chkballin wagon being scumdriven.

172;JDGA - Doesn't post much, usually includes an annoyingly thorough votecount to look like he's contributing.
184;jilynne1991 - Defends JDGA's votecounts.
190;SleepyKrew - Jumping to ridiculous conclusions based on one post from jilynne; votes Swag without providing reasoning.
194;DeityKabuto - Promises us some reads again.
196;65536[tarsonisocelot] - This post just rubs me the wrong way and I can't place it.
198;Tomie Uzumaki - Weirdly aggressive towards glowball. Throws out that BW is scum without reasoning.
199;Thor655 - I hate when someone indicates that someone should die regardless of alignment, and Taro is certainly not the biggest offender. DK, sure. Taro, not really...
209;kryptinen - reeks of active lurking. Successfully adds no viable points.
212;JDGA - Nice Taro defense, thar.
219;sanchocolates - Good point, where's Palis- oh
220;Palisade[red] - Paraphrase: I'm good at observing, so I don't have to contribute. Here's some popular opinions and a couple vague comments thrown in.
226-7;DeityKabuto - IF YOU ARE GOING TO GET UPSET AT PEOPLE FOR NOT CONTRIBUTING, FUCKING CONTRIBUTE KJSFHFJSHGKJDHGK
231;Tomie Uzumaki - This tunneling on glowball is getting somewhat preposterous. Not only are they tunneling, they're magnifying the situation far past necessity.
234;Tomie Uzumaki - Okay, it seems like her entire reasoning is based on me being scum. I know I'm town. Point is invalid. Why aren't they voting me when their wagon depends on me being scum?
246;xRECKONERx - Amazing post.
274;DeityKabuto - Jesus fucking Christ. "I don't feel like I am contributing nor scumhunting, so?" YOU ARE DOING NOTHING. THIS IS SCUMMY. "But I am posting content. Some people still have less than 5 posts so far, whereas I'm around 40." QUALITY =/= CONTENT.

I would like to quickly point out a glaring hole in everyone's reasoning for voting me. If having played elsewhere means that Swag should be a good player, doesn't that mean DK should, too?

277;bvgoit - Good posting.
279;65536[?] - This post is fucking retarded.
293;JDGA - SCUM. SCUMMY SCUM SCUM SCUM.
307;sanchocolates - Nice bandwagon, how about a reason?
334;chkballin[glowball] - Is this a serious vote? omgus'in on Thor like whoa.
345;kryptinen - I don't like this post at all. There's a vote for chkballin, but lots of commentary about not seeing the reasoning and me being a more viable lynch.
348;SleepyKrew - MORE BANDWAGONING.

INTERMISSION: SLEEPYKREW

10,12 - jilynne PL
115 - Says he's up for a DK, jily, or Swag lynch - the three main bandwagons at the time
127 - Pointless Swag spec
190 - Ridiculous jumping to conclusions and reasoning-less bandwagon vote
193 - Asks DK who's scum
305,344 - Doesn't see chkballin reasoning
348 - Joins chkballin wagon
380 - Saying "pushing a wagon without voting" is reasoning enough to vote chkballin, which I disagree with
383,385,389 - Fluff

Nothing else particularly outstanding to me.

@ CHKBALLIN, RE: 377 - No, I've never played with DK.

I like the kryptinen wagon, but not my biggest suspect yet.

So, in summary, my top scum reads are Taro, DeityKabuto, Knight of Cydonia, PeregrineV, and kryptinen, with an eye on SleepyKrew and JDGA.
I generally agree with Reck, chkballin, and occasionally Thor. I do think that Reck's town reads as he last stated them are severely faulty.

[TBuG]

oh, and I'm majorly sketchy of Palisade.

[TBuG]

Vote: Taro

[TBuG]

I want to put a couple of things next to each other to see if they make sense to me;

199;Thor655 - I hate when someone indicates that someone should die regardless of alignment, and Taro is certainly not the biggest offender. DK, sure. Taro, not really...

INTERMISSION: TARO
116 - Bandwagons DK
163,175 - Bandwagons Swag
179,188 - pointless

Vote: Taro

@PBug - am I missing something?

I don't think Taro is significant enough to vig when we can wagon him to try and get him to contribute. DK is posting a lot and is a lost cause contribution-wise.

[TBuG]

Unvote, Vote: Krypt

.

Palisade, could you pretty please give us some reasoning for this? Not that I don't find krypt scummy, oh lordy I do, but you have never once mentioned being even slightly suspicious of krypt until propositioning Thor and Reck like a penny cheap hooker.

[TBuG]

I believe jilynne's claim and I agree that it only really helps town that she claimed.

Vote: PBuG

Modkill doesnt make him any less scum.[/quote]

...reasoning? I don't understand what DK's modkill has to do with me.

Vote: Knight of Cydonia

because he spent 90% of his posts on day 1 clamoring for DK's lynch with no other valuable input whatsoever.

[TBuG]

oh. whoops. that's not supposed to be a self-vote, that's supposed to be the start of a quote from Taro.
...

unvote, vote: Knight of Cydonia

if it matters?

[TBuG]

ONLY scumread. Read the thread TWICE. Plus, Lynch all Liars cuz he goes back and says he didn't really read it twice.

No, I said I did not read it thoroughly with analysis twice. In my skimming, DK stood out because he was abrasive and unhelpful.

...reasoning? I don't understand what DK's modkill has to do with me.

Vote: Knight of Cydonia

because he spent 90% of his posts on day 1 clamoring for DK's lynch with no other valuable input whatsoever.

a) deliberate misrep, stating "the fact DK was modkilled doesn't make PBuG less scummy" isn't an implication that DK's modkill has an effect on you, it's a clear statement of "okay, the fucktard is out of the way, continue as normal".

No, actual confusion requesting clarification because I didn't actually understand what Taro was saying.

b) blatant hypocrisy, given that you yourself stated that after reading the thread twice (which you admitted to not actually doing), DK was your only scumread. You're voting me for pushing hard on your only scumread of your own. Yeah, I tunnelled yesterday, but 1) frankly, getting DK out of this game sooner rather than later was of paramount importance to making this game semi-playable. The fact that you're dragging DK back into this stinks of a desire to reobfuscate the scum hunting, just as he did yesterday.

Vote: PBuG

Again, I did not once admit to not reading the thread twice. I am voting you for ONLY PUSHING FOR DK. I made one post upon my entrance that, from the SIXTEEN PAGES that I had not yet had the time to read with actual analysis and ISOs, DK was the only real scumread that stood out right away. I read, analyzed, and provided additional suspects, including you. EVERY SINGLE POST YOU MADE YESTERDAY WAS ABOUT DK AND HOW DESPERATELY YOU WANTED HIM LYNCHED. You did not make any other points about anyone aside from a jab at kryptinen for shitty logic that had to do with the DK wagon. Yes, I'm dragging DK back into this, because it's impossible to comment on a single post you made on day 1 without bringing him up.

[TBuG]

PBuG spent all of D1 attacking the easiest target due to the scumminess of swag, and now he is picking on someone that was gunning exclusively for DK on D1 since DK fipped town. I still see this as PBuG trying to grasp at easy targets to recover from the massive scum fail by swag.

I stated that I suspected DK and then listed him among several suspects of mine. That's hardly 'spending all of D1 attacking' him, especially when I barely even focused on him subsequently. I listed Knight of Cydonia among my main suspects.

[TBuG]

I'm really at a loss of who's scummiest between KoC, SleepyKrew, Celebloki, and Palisade right now. They all piled on me with shitty reasoning and three of them have jumped off. All that's really happened between this, aside from me pointing out shitty logic, was two generally protown players stating they don't think I'm scum and one of them starting a Palisade wagon. For a lot of people who seemed utterly convinced I was scum, this is slightly alarming.

For now I'm staying on KoC but I'm gonna do some ISOs later.

P-Edit: Palisade, I don't see what's so scummy about asking for reasoning given that I tend to do it too. This looks a little like an excuse to jump on the rival wagon...

[TBuG]

Yeah, DK, GTFO.
VOTE: DeityKabuto

I'll be honest, I've never played with DK, but people don't seem to like him too much. I jumped on a bandwagon. If it really bothers you I'll unvote.

^This is all the reason we need to suspect you. Your predecessor made an enormous scumslip, and the fact that you completely dismiss it without acknowledgment compounds it.

I haven't dismissed it. I'm commenting on how most of the posts voting for me misconstrued actions

I

, not Swag, made. But, honestly, I don't understand what you want me to do. Apologize? Try and explain actions I didn't make? Think of it like this: My slot is a pony. When Swag made those posts, this pony was shot in the leg. When I replaced in, the leg was amputated. Now I have three legs to walk on rather than having the chance the mend that wound.

Re: Tomie, I like your observation but taking the entire list of Tomie's suspects as your scumgroup is a bit odd. That's probably a little WIFOMy on both our parts, though.

[TBuG]

Either way, I'm starting to think KoC might be the most informative lynch we have. If he flips scum (which I'm confident about), we already have a few other leads. If he flips town, Palisade is practically confirmed scum.

P-Edit - Fair enough. I'd have a lot of other things to say on the issue but it's a chock-full of WIFOM. That being said, I didn't like the chkballin wagon yesterday as I felt (still feel) they're town, but I should probably ISO

them

, too.

[TBuG]

How is a KoC lynch informative? He's done nothing...

But others have done plenty about him.

Interactions are a wonderful thing, eh?

For example, SleepyKrew and Celebloki avoiding the KoC wagon for what I currently believe is a less-sufficient Palisade wagon is reeeeeeally interesting if KoC is scum.

[TBuG]

@Mod, could we maybe get a prod on PeregrineV? <3

He's one of my scumreads and I want more from him.

[TBuG]

Oh, okay, cool.

[TBuG]

Yeah, DK, GTFO.
VOTE: DeityKabuto

I'll be honest, I've never played with DK, but people don't seem to like him too much. I jumped on a bandwagon. If it really bothers you I'll unvote.

So, first off we have PBuG's predecessor jumping on the main wagon of opportunity.

Obviously can't defend against this.

ONLY scumread. Read the thread TWICE. Plus, Lynch all Liars cuz he goes back and says he didn't really read it twice.

No, I said I did not read it thoroughly with analysis twice. In my skimming, DK stood out because he was abrasive and unhelpful.

This is a blatant lie.

Okay, I was very busy today and have only really had the chance to read through the thread twice, but one suspect is standing out pretty prominently in my mine - DeityKabuto.

Except then, he changes his story in his next post:

Warning, wall ahead...

First of all, I read once before replacing in and skimmed it a second time, didn't analyze too deeply either time. I ISO'd DK because he stood out to me the most.

Just reread it again

(well, rereading as I write this) and here be my notes:

"read once" = 1
"skimmed it a second time" = 2
"Just reread it again" = 3 times.

You read the thread two times, plus skimmed it. Not only was your only suspect DK, you are now having the gall to vote me for lurking and only focusing on DK.

Where is the blatant lie? I read it once and skimmed it which I counted as my second read. Thus, I did not lie. After those the person who stood out the most and the only one I could find a firm read on after that was DK. In my analysis while reading through the whole thread I found additional suspects. You only had one suspect the entire day, and never commented on anything that was not relevant to said suspect.

Oh, and let's look at where his vote went after these two posts: Taro.

INTERMISSION: TARO
116 - Bandwagons DK
163,175 - Bandwagons Swag
179,188 - pointless
237 - STFU I LIEK CONTENTLESS BANDWAGONS MY LIEF IS HARD
355 - This I actually agree with, glowball/chkballin wagon being scumdriven.

So, let's see, he voted on a person you suspect, he voted you, made two "pointless posts" + 237, and one you agreed with. From this reasoning, you decided he was the absolutely scummiest player at this point in the game? Not buying it.

I thought he was one of many scummy players, and I felt the bandwagoning, lack of content, and rage at someone calling him out for not having any content was enough to warrant a vote.

PBuG spent all of D1 attacking the easiest target due to the scumminess of swag, and now he is picking on someone that was gunning exclusively for DK on D1 since DK fipped town. I still see this as PBuG trying to grasp at easy targets to recover from the massive scum fail by swag.

I stated that I suspected DK and then listed him among several suspects of mine. That's hardly 'spending all of D1 attacking' him, especially when I barely even focused on him subsequently. I listed Knight of Cydonia among my main suspects.

Deliberate misrep. "The easiest target" is something that fluctuates - at no point did Celebloki state that you were exclusively targeting DK in what you've quoted here.

That was how I interpreted his post.

You

are the one deliberately misrepresenting

me

, and not for the first time. If I misinterpreted what Celebloki said, that was unintentional.

KoC I scummier than normal, especially the "I don't want to contribute unless there's a threat to me" stance (protip: Town is always under threat. Scum isn't.)

This is the exact opposite of the truth. Scum are always under threat.

...No, actually, Palisade had that right.

Yeah, I'm still liking my vote.

[TBuG]

I certainly did not "pile" on you with shitty reasoning. D1 I voted swag because of the aforementioned scumfail. We never lynched anyone D1 because DK went and got himself modkilled. I resumed my vote on swag's scumminess which is now you. I understand the frustration involved in swapping into someone that made such a mistake, I've done it before. Shit sucks. But just because you replaced in doesn't mean we should completely excuse and forget swag's play. I'm pretty sure D1 I explained why I voted swag and made it clear I thought he was scum. It's not like just because the day changed, and you replaced in that swag's play was nulled.

I'm not saying you should excuse Swag's behavior, because I certainly understand and agree that he was scummy. However, I found the logic in the post that you voted me to be flawed.

[TBuG]

BV, pay moar attention.

The PBuG wagon is yesterday's news. It's old stuff. It died a long time ago, and will never be starting up again.

Ever.

PBuG has proved himself to be town. He will NOT be wagoned this game, ever again.

The other wagon besides us isn't PBuG. It's KoC.

I really don't like this post. If Palisade is scum it's an easy way to set up my lynch by connecting us even more.

[TBuG]

BV, pay moar attention.

The PBuG wagon is yesterday's news. It's old stuff. It died a long time ago, and will never be starting up again.

Ever.

PBuG has proved himself to be town. He will NOT be wagoned this game, ever again.

The other wagon besides us isn't PBuG. It's KoC.

I really don't like this post. If Palisade is scum it's an easy way to set up my lynch by connecting us even more.

This is some seriously retarded logic. The only reason for Palisade to tie himself to you in order to get a 1 scum for 1 town lynch (assuming he's scum and you're town) is if you're an important town PR, AND he has knowledge of that. And if the scum have knowledge that you're a PR, why wouldn't they just kill you tonight?

Every mislynch is important and given Swag's scumminess and the lingering support for my lynch it would be yet another reason to push my lynch.

[TBuG]

This REEKS of mislynch fueled by scum at this point. Analysis...eventually. I'm exhausted.

I agree heavily. Most of my suspects right now are on it which makes me feels really uneasy.

[TBuG]

Celebloki is incredibly town. Often, when someone says this, it's not based on anything, but I have my reasons. Plus, he's just very town.

Share them. And while you're at it, reason your vote, because you spent that post dancing around why you actually think Palisade is scummy. If there's so many suspicious people, you surely have a credible reason.

[TBuG]

Yeah, I'm sorry, I just do

not

like the Palisade wagon. I may have had a scumread on them at the beginning of the day but not only has that slowly dissipated but I variously suspect everyone on that wagon (except BeaverWeasel who I go back and forth on too much to have a definitive read) and did so before they joined it. Going to ISO the voters tomorrow.

P-edit: Yeah, I buy it 100%.

[TBuG]

Vigslip is 100% true. No way does NS have enough forethought to fake something like that.

I say we lynch from the overlap of Tomie's suspects + Palisade's wagoners, and then Palisade shoots someone else from that list.

If every one of Palisade's wagoners do not unvote in their next post, I will consider that a scum claim.

NS is a BeaverWeasel head, but that's irrelevant.

From the moment I post this I'm gonna start analyzing ISOs of the Palisade wagoners, including KoC who's dancing a delicate waltz around this wagon. Instead of saying I'm going to do it and forgetting like last time.

[TBuG]

Vigslip is 100% true. No way does NS have enough forethought to fake something like that.

I say we lynch from the overlap of Tomie's suspects + Palisade's wagoners, and then Palisade shoots someone else from that list.

If every one of Palisade's wagoners do not unvote in their next post, I will consider that a scum claim.

NS is a BeaverWeasel head, but that's irrelevant.

From the moment I post this I'm gonna start analyzing ISOs of the Tomie suspects + Palisade wagoners, including KoC who's dancing a delicate waltz around this wagon. Instead of saying I'm going to do it and forgetting like last time.

EBWOP

[TBuG]

Spoiler: Knight of Cydonia

Yeah, not really a secret how I feel about KoC. Obvious scum is obvious.
Day 1, tunnelvision like whoa on DeityKabuto. No, seriously, he couldn't shut up about him. I get it, you don't fucking like DK. This is not a viable excuse to avoid any semblance of scumhunting, which KoC did.

Eh, if we're not going to get a DK lynch today, I'll deal with him tonight.

unvote

Nice softclaim there. Rather than trying to scumhunt, he leaves.

For approximately

seven pages

.

Next is this:

Vote sanchocolates

My guts are telling me he's scum, no explaining to do, but you all will see later in the game.

No, DK. We're way too far in for "guts".

Really? You don't seem to have much better.

The problem with the DK wagon right now is that it has people like Taro "I think he's a vig but instead of letting town order him about I'm just gonna lynch him" and PBuG... wait, when did PBuG vote DK? Not seeing it in iso. Also the irony of her commenting on DK just making loads of posts with no content and/or quote walls, when her only real content post has been... a wall of mostly fluff and one-liner comments... well, yeah.

This is the closest KoC ever comes to stating a read on anyone either than DK. Point against Taro is accurate, point against me is, in my opinion, not. I personally thought I actually gave constructive analysis. But, I mean, most points against me (NOT SWAG. ME. I'M TALKING ABOUT MYSELF.) are inaccurate.

And instead of any of the far more valid avenues of questioning, you're going after an active lurker. What of it?

Openly admits to active lurking and acts like it isn't a scumtell.

I've already previously addressed the disgusting misrepresentation that is his vote for me in 561. Claims DK was my only D1 scum read despite listing several, including him. As well as the further misrep in 620.

In 620 and 641, he dances around the Palisade wagon, placing heavy suspicion and supporting the wagon without voting - possibly laying the groundwork to hop on Palisade, say, right now that he's at L-2?

BV, pay moar attention.

The PBuG wagon is yesterday's news. It's old stuff. It died a long time ago, and will never be starting up again.

Ever.

PBuG has proved himself to be town. He will NOT be wagoned this game, ever again.

The other wagon besides us isn't PBuG. It's KoC.

I really don't like this post. If Palisade is scum it's an easy way to set up my lynch by connecting us even more.

This is some seriously retarded logic. The only reason for Palisade to tie himself to you in order to get a 1 scum for 1 town lynch (assuming he's scum and you're town) is if you're an important town PR, AND he has knowledge of that. And if the scum have knowledge that you're a PR, why wouldn't they just kill you tonight?

This is completely wrong.

Spoiler: chkballin

I started off with a town read on chkballin that's been wavering and recently dipped into possible scum, especially in light of Tomie's death given that Tomie basically built the entire chkballin wagon.

Post 30 is anti-PL towncred.

Post 50 is trying to find the reasoning for the DK PL.

9 posts into glow's ISO and it's all questions about DeityKabuto.

Starting to get confused why I had a townread. Should have ISO'd sooner.

Unvote, Vote: Swag

.

Timeline
Swag admits bandwagon vote
You post suspects (Swag and Parabollocks)
Then you post that you don't support policy lynches..

So my question is...
Why? Why is the vote coming now? I mean is it because of the bandwagon vote because you've posted several times since then and didn't mention anything about it. You did mention Swag as a suspect along with Parabollocks- what made you choose to vote Swag? I mean considering Swag hasn't posted since earlier...

"Why didn't you vote your suspect sooner? Why didn't you vote for your other suspect?"

Right now, I am seeing jily as scum over Swag. Why would any scum outwardly say that they joined a bandwagon? Newbtell and I agree that it leaves Swag NULL. Now jily claiming a vote for pressure is just ridiculous, as well as the fact that she called DK out for not scumhunting when the game just started and he's posted more than her.

First time that glow mentions actually being suspicious of a

single player

in post 147. This post also contains attempts to discredit Tomie, asking if she has any actual experience.

Also, it is very easy to sit back and wait for townies to slip up- it's called active lurking, I don't try to gain brownie points, I SCUMHUNT...you? I don't know what you do besides try to point out what you see as flaws in game play which aren't actually points at all. You are a feeler- you will keep deflecting, eluding, and trying to get anyone but yourself looked at. I challenge you to ask questions- follow through with pressure instead of coming in and making comments.

Asking questions without taking any firm stances isn't scumhunting. You're telling someone to follow through with pressure when you haven't even placed a vote on anyone.

Since then the only people catching my eye are Thor, Reck, KoC and Tomie. The first two just aggressive seemingly pushing for any sort of lynch, one coasting by and Tomie more evasive and deflective than anything.

Scumtell. Listing three townies and a scumbuddy as your suspects. It'd take a hell of a fucking lot to convince me that Thor and Reck are anything but town at this point, and it's basic mafia play to give light noncommittal suspicion of a weak scumbuddy. And, judging from those reads there, KoC is her weakest read of the four. Why pinpoint KoC in particular for 'just coasting by'?

Switching to chkballin ISO...

Thor vote is stupid and literally has no valid reason.

CHK posts some reads in 381, unsurprising I, the rival wagon, am suddenly their top suspect; meanwhile lurker PeregrineV is also scum. No other scum reads. None. Has a town read on Celebloki for taking a meta jab at Thor, saying scum wouldn't attempt that - why?

glowball fluffs around.

Of all the things I'm scum for, it's because I'm joking with Thor665? That's reaching and especially so after quite a few people have joked and been jest back and forth. With this same mindset, SleepyKrew is scum too (for joking with Reck) right? Oh, no, he's not. Which should mean that I'm not either, right? Unless you're contradicting scum.

Then there's your vote on KoC which

totally looks sincere

and is about as valid as your vote for me.

Add the other things people have said and I'm convinced you're scum.

Then there's this new excuse you're giving us. "I'll finish this if I ignore you guys" sounds a lot like "I'm going to hopefully active-lurk myself out of this lynch." Do not like.

What even is this reasoning. No me gusta.

Spoiler: Celebloki

I've really had no idea what to really think of Celebloki. Picked on the easy votes all D1 - jily, Swag/me, DK. Nothing's ~technically~ wrong until:

I'll bite, lets see where a palisade wagon gets us.

Unvote

Vote: Palisade

Out of the blue, wagons Palisade with no prior suspicion after voting me with a long history of suspecting me. Does not sit well.

You chumps really need to sign your posts. At this point one of you can't make cases or show reasoning for his reads and is essentially telling us to "deal with it". My understanding of this hydra is someone that wants to make posts on a fun forum while his partner plays the game but never seems to come around. If this isn't the most anti-town thing I've ever read I don't know what is. Is this some hydra made up of multiple personalities of DK or something. So you go ahead and tell us you can't make cases and aren't good at reasoning, but then you want us to take you seriously when you post a wall about who you think the scumteam is. This is ludicrous. Can't we just lynch this guy already?

For a player who has previously thoroughly explained his thoughts on me and jily with mostly okayish logic, he suddenly jumps a wagon and makes this post, smearing the hell out of Palisade with no basis of fact. "Can't we just lynch this guy already?" is a scumtell. If anybody is looking guilty of witnessing the vig slip and trying to kill it as quickly as possible, it's looking like Celebloki right now.

Spoiler: sanchocolates

You can't post reads this early in the game...

Can too.

She's ignoring a specific player which she shouldn't be doing so based on what she has said so far.
Hint: It's the guy who supported the policy lynch against Deity without a reason.

Talking about me? I'm against a PL since I've never played with him before. But I do know him a bit, since I talk to him via chats and stuff and he's an irritating little bugger.

This was awful jumpy. I don't see how this could possibly be about san, yet he manages to assume it's him.

@PBuG: My reason are the same as the other peoples. I honestly don't want to type it down when people have already given ME the reason to vote for him, so why shall I repeat it?

You should always be able to state in your own words why you are voting a certain player. Not necessarily a wrong post, but I don't like it.

Tends to have a lot of contentless posts, but out of the four, he's the least legitimately scummy. Not a fan of the apparent active lurking, though. Hasn't ever given an original opinion.

So, in summation...

Knight of Cydonia

- Active lurker who tunneled on DK and posted about nobody else until today, using flawed logic on me and Palisade.

chkballin

- glowball asks meaningless questions and doesn't take strong stances. CHK makes opportunistic votes with shifty logic.

Celebloki

- Spends a day and a half using logic, then hops on Palisade and uses

no

logic in demanding their lynch.

sanchocolate

- Potentially active lurking undercontributor who sheeps and made a jumpy assumption from a question Tomie asked glowball.

Even though he isn't necessarily the overall scummiest, I think Celebloki's inconsistency in voting Palisade is really fucking blatant. Out of the four, I'm probably most sold on him as scum. Second would be KoC, then chk, then san.

Unvote; Vote: Celebloki

[TBuG]

Why?

[TBuG]

I'm not really seeing the case on Para, tbh, just seems like frustrated town to me. @Zeb or Palisade, or anyone else who suspects him for that matter, enlighten me? He's not connected to my other scum reads, and actually has some pretty damn good reads in general aside from falling for jily's obvnewbness.

Still waiting on BW to tell us why Celebloki is town, though I think I caught it and I wish I hadn't been so pushy.

[TBuG]

Still waiting on BW to tell us why Celebloki is town, though I think I caught it and I wish I hadn't been so pushy.

Soooo, you actually don't need him to expand on it then, right?

...not really, actually.

Unvote, Vote: Knight of Cydonia

[TBuG]

The more I think about it the more KoC and chkballin seem to fit together as scum.

[TBuG]

I'm not really seeing the case on Para, tbh, just seems like frustrated town to me. @Zeb or Palisade, or anyone else who suspects him for that matter, enlighten me? He's not connected to my other scum reads, and actually has some pretty damn good reads in general aside from falling for jily's obvnewbness.

Define damn good.
-TO

That was based on post 328 but after reading it again, his scumreads are me, you, Celebloki, jily, and san. I only see one of those as viable scum whatsoever, although his suspicions of you seem slightly valid.

The more I think about it the more KoC and chkballin seem to fit together as scum.

Could you show me how. The way KoC seems to be playing is as a lone player, he hasn't made any connections either with the town or with my other scum reads. I have him pegged as a serial killer. but he's still lurky lurky mcscummerson, I'd rather have a lynch on someone who I have a Mafia read on.

1) I agree that he might be serial killer, but I disagree re: rather lynching a mafia read because, y'know, lynching a serial killer means one less night kill... We can't actually be sure there is one at this point, all things considered.

2) KoC has been doing a pretty good job of having no connections from his end, but glowball mentioned a light early suspicion of him among one now-dead town and two obvtowns. Then... dropped it. Entirely. Why would KoC have a good reason to ignore the wagons? Well, if I'm right, his options were try and bus his buddy for no reason or throw a sketchy vote on the then-inevitable town lynch of me. It's not a strong connection, but it's certainly feasible.

also, @KoC, if I'm scum, why would I end up being disappointed?

KoC is teh scumz. gogogo

[TBuG]

@65536, this was where I thought I saw a scumtell:

Since then the only people catching my eye are Thor, Reck, KoC and Tomie. The first two just aggressive seemingly pushing for any sort of lynch, one coasting by and Tomie more evasive and deflective than anything.

Also, I think six+ months on site isn't really a 'newb' anymore.

Also, primo scum motivation for doing so: You have a Mafia Roleblocker or Mafia Doc, and softclaiming draws out the real counterpart, who you promptly kill. Congratulations on successfully implementing this tactic.

You say I softclaimed to drag you out, because as a Mafia Roleblocker, a very powerful role, it

makes comeplete fucking sense

for myself to trade my life for a vig (who could have a doctor protecting him for all we know) but let's be honest here, you only claimed because you had 5 votes on yourself and added me as an "honorary member" of the wagon. You were so fucking eager to claim that you added ghostvotes onto your own wagon just to make claiming now seem feasible.

Where did Palisade specifically say

you

are the Mafia RB/Doc? Their logic looks perfectly good to me, and I would not be surprised if you're a goon with a teammate who is RB/Doc.

Additionally, when Palisade claimed, they had seven votes on them by my count (L-3, even though JDGA seemed to think there was one more vote on) and with the vigslip I think it was perfectly logical to claim then.

Anyone notice KoC rolefishing PBuG a couple pages ago?

I did. I ignored it because I didn't think it was solidly obvious as rolefishing. This post, yes?

@Back-up Mod, I would

love

a votecount.

[TBuG]

"I don't want to play the newbie card, but I'm a newbie."

[TBuG]

anything I say is going to be scummy to you

That's actually blatantly false, but as far as the rest of your post, point taken and I apologize.

[TBuG]

I think PBug and chballin might be scum, because they were the ones voted by kryptinen and Tomie Uzumaki. (Am I honestly the only one that thinks that's worth pointing out?)

No, you aren't, but did you miss the part where Palisade claimed vig that killed krypt?

I don't even know where to start on the rest.

FoS: jilynne

[TBuG]

Seriaaaaaaaaaaaaaaal KILLAH!

A vig who might be a serial killer than we know the identity of is 89759345723698234 times better then several scum that we don't know.

[TBuG]

I fancy a jillynne lynch. Are you guys going to give me a hard time?

Yes, because she's a claimed PGO.

That's a scumvenient claim, but unlikely to come from a n0Ob.

Yes, but we have to keep in mind that if jily is scum she potentially has scum whispering in her ear.

I would

potentially

support an jily lynch, but not necessarily right now. I want KoC lynched. scum!jily is someone we could lynch at anytime, but from what people have told me she's just as scummy as town. She's giving off newbtells left and right. Her ridiculous flip-flops seem a bit too blatant to me. That being said, she's destructive as shit to the town either way.

[TBuG]

PeregrineV is a scumputer. A cold, hard, metallic scumputer.

Agreed. He loves him some wagons, and that post looks like a big mess of I-forgot-to-come-up-with-some-fake-reads-how-about-some-wagon-analysis. Except he doesn't actually analyze wagons and just copy/pasted some votecounts. That's just kind of bad.

JDGA, you're generally good at ISO analysis from what I've seen so it would be cool to see you do a bit more of that.

KoC is obvious town.

Instead of telling us we're wrong, tell us why. I think that the tunneling was outstandingly scummy, especially done in lieu of any other reasonable content. I also don't see the town motivation (or motivation really at all aside from trying to out the vig) in softclaiming. Many of his points against me today are terrible misinterpretations and false conclusions; I suspect OMGUS accompanied by the knowledge that there would be potential support for a wagon on me.

P-edit: DGB, is that a serious claim?

Palisade is SK/scum, PBuG is likely scum/almost definite scum from interactions with Palisade (went from absolute scum D1 in Palisade's eyes to near-confirmed town? wut?), SleepyKrew has been willing to push any wagon that has even vague merit.

If Palisade is SK, we're not scum together. Unless you're going to start claiming that the mafia has an extra kill, that makes no sense.

SleepyKrew has been willing to push any wagon that has even vague merit.

"SleepyKrew doesn't push wagons unless they have merit."

"SleepyKrew pushes every wagon."

Maybe PBuG has hard evidence that Palisade is truthful.

I started doubting my initial scum read on Palisade when the majority of my suspects hopped their wagon in quick succession. Then they claimed vig and I accepted them as prob town.

I think the fact that Tomie ended up dead places the smoking gun in Glowball's hand. She is 100% confirmed scum imo. As for D2 it's more active lurking than it is anything else. Sheeping votes and moving between popular people to target. I say we Lynch chkballin today and Palisade can shoot KoC tonight to confirm his role.

I... could go for that, actually. I've already stated that I think chkballin/KoC are a likely scumteam.

[TBuG]

Ended up accidentally typing the p-edit in midpost, whoops.

[TBuG]

Okay, I'm sorry, BeaverWeasel, but if I caught your PR slip and it was truthful, then it's a safe bet that scum caught it and it going to kill you. It's in the best interest of the town for me to out what I caught, especially since Celebloki is gaining support as a target again. *sigh*

Celebloki is incredibly town. Often, when someone says this, it's not based on anything, but I have my reasons. Plus, he's just very town.

DO NOT VOTE Celebloki.

He's Town.

Unvote

Why?

I'll tell you after conferring with SecondHead.

BeaverWeasel, am I right? If so, town, is it possible we have two cops? If not, we may very well have BW/Celebloki as scum together.

[TBuG]

Unvote

because that's a fucking mason softclaim.

That... makes more sense. /stupid

[TBuG]

Unvote; Vote: chkballin

[TBuG]

Wow, that's an abysmal defense you've got there.

[TBuG]

PBuG I seem to recall you claiming already, was that this game or am I just crazy?

You're just crazy.

[TBuG]

k cool

Vote: PBuG

A chkballin vote with no reasoning behind it at this stage in the game = scumclaim

*quirks eyebrow* I've noted suspicion of chkballin before here, here, and here. I also agree heavily with Celebloki's arguments here and here.

chk, I don't agree with you that Celebloki was straw manning. In fact, the second thing that you claim was straw manning, your comment was completely irrelevant to what he said.

[TBuG]

Okay, for fuck's sake, lynching a claimed cop is so inherently retarded I don't know where to start. Let his results discredit him if he's lying instead of outright lynching him. He DID NOT CLAIM ANYTHING RANDOMLY. There was the initial breadcrumb which was not particularly obvious; he re-emphasized this when the Celebloki wagon was forming and picking up.

Additionally, Palisade is saying nothing wrong. In the game of mafia it is implicit that we do not outright trust anyone aside from ourselves until we have evidence to convince us that someone else is 100% town. The only person who may have that evidence on

anyone

right now is NS if he's telling the truth. Don't bitch out Palisade for stating implicitly that they don't trust anyone else to make the decision for them. We can figure out later whether or not they're a SK.

chk's recent posts (aside from 956 which is a fluffy failantagonism of one of my top town reads) are making me like my vote on chkballin less. I need to stop letting myself be swayed from the person I'm consistently sure is scum, and KoC's last post is incredibly

incredibly

scummy and makes me think he definitely needs a lynch.

Unvote; Vote: Knight of Cydonia

although will still definitely

IGMEOY: chkballin

because I still don't like your posts as a whole.

Vote: Knight of Cydonia

because he spent 90% of his posts on day 1 clamoring for DK's lynch with no other valuable input whatsoever.

So, by this volition, you believe that KoC's clamoring for DK's lynch was valuable imput? lolwut?

Okay, the word other was unnecessary, don't understand why this is a significant post to quote.

No other scum reads. None. Has a town read on Celebloki for taking a meta jab at Thor, saying scum wouldn't attempt that - why?

I don't feel it's the right time to give full reads on the whole playerlist, I just wanted to share some of my stronger reads.

You should at least

try

to look like you're paying attention. This quote is right before our vote on you. As far as my "slighttown" read on Celebloki goes, obviously that's changed... but really? I didn't, at the time, think such a move was scum-motivated nor scum-posted until it was outed that the link was completely and utterly false; to which Cele responds with "My bad".... for real?

Okay, cool, you said that you don't feel it's the right time to give full reads on the whole playerlist, by no means does that render what I said null. You should be giving more scum reads than you did. There is never a wrong time to give reads.

[TBuG]

ITT PBuG assumes scum cannot breadcrumb.

Never said they can't breadcrumb, I was addressing the claims that he was just doing it all out of the blue.

Yes, there is a good chance that it's a fakeclaim, but I don't think lynching a claimed cop is in any way, shape, or form a good idea when we have far scummier people we could be lynching.