NY Mafia 155 - New Age Mafia II - Game Over!

[singersigner]

/winning

[singersigner]

Read most of the thread. My eyes tend to gloss over paragraphs' worth of stuff, but, meh.

The last couple of pages were actually entertaining.

Anyway, tally ho.

[singersigner]

Because I'm sick of that slot being constantly filled with people that are completely useless and not even playing the game at best to intentionally useless at worst.

NO U.

[singersigner]

Not while a mass claim is going on please and thank you.

[singersigner]

Not while a mass claim is going on please and thank you.

UNVOTE: redFF
VOTE: singersigner
How about now?

Aw, now that's not how you get want you want, now, is it?

[singersigner]

For example, Tierce is painfully obvcum, yet she is not going to be lynched unless she does something obvious as claiming scum.

It's a good thing we're in a mass claim now, then, huh?

[singersigner]

I'm

fairly certain

I'm not scum.

I don't get it...

[singersigner]

How is it a joke... I legitimately don't get why he'd post something like that.

In any case, massclaim shitfest over and all, rereading the thread cuz I forgot everything I read already. Except that I said the last two pages before I replaced in were funny...I wonder if I'll still find them funny...

Last couple of pages thus far...
JD seems a little try-hardy but I've never played with him before so.
Primate's town.
Glork...do you feel that "short-sighted"=scum? Or are you basically calling everyone who thinks you're scummy for a bad idea dumb? For the record, I wouldn't consider that a gambit if you had legitimate reasons for doing so, and you actually got half (more than half?) the players on board. What do you think of Tierce emulating your scum-play if you consider it "too reserved"?

In any case, as dumb as it was, this leaves any unclaimed/lying watchers/trackers/docs freedom to choose targets and force scum to gambit with night kills.

[singersigner]

AGar, if that's the way you feel about Quilford, how do you feel about Tierce?

[singersigner]

meh, fuckl whatever koffing wants to do, as I expected

Tierce is butthurt scum

that is complaining about lack of scumhunting when she hasnt done shit at all

Followed by Quilford requesting replacement in just about the same way Primate did before scooby's comment.

How are those actions mutually exclusive from one another?

[singersigner]

[singersigner]

Oh yeah!

unvote
vote: bv310

[singersigner]

Iiiiinteresting. I could go for a nhammen lynch based on that alone.

What's the point of saying this if you're not going to? But you should vote for me instead anyway.

Also, I thought AGar thought

*I*

was making a joke. Apparently the fact that he was talking about you went over my head, too...

lol@bv voting for me...and then claiming...

YO SIMENON MAN AM I SCUMMY BECAUSE I STICK IT TO THE MAN OR WHAT.

Where'd hohum go...

I'd like reads from Tierce on everyone.

I still haven't reread, but if I'm getting lynched, I'd prefer not to. Make it quick. None of this hemming and hawing over Nhammen nonsense.

[singersigner]

lol@JD complaining about people acting like bitches.

Also, at selective quoting that disregards anything I

have

contributed, which I stated I would do and have done for the page 5-6 pages. What's the point in rereading 12 pages if I'm just going to get lynched? Why waste my time and energy? I thought you'd've figured out by now that bullying doesn't get you what you want. You play your way, and I'll play mine, k? Now stfu and actually concentrate on finding scum instead of tunneling those just not buckling to the big, bad JD.

Seriously question: how do you feel about policy lynches?

@bv...I mean that it looks awfully convenient for you to place an empty vote on the person being wagoned who JUST voted you. The claiming part had nothing to do with the vote. I really just meant that you voted for me...and then you came back and claimed when it was pretty much agreed that the MC was dead at that point. I was basically lol-ing at both of those actions at that point.

[singersigner]

@JD...how do you feel about umoms?

[singersigner]

then you came back and claimed when it was pretty much agreed that the MC was dead at that point.

wait what

How do you reach the conclusion that it is 'pretty much agreed that the massclaim is dead' when everybody has claimed but you, umoms and Quag?

Because no one was calling for claim, it had been established that it was a bad idea, and the concept was a dead one being pushed along by other/better things going on. For being caught up on the thread, it seemed silly that he was so eager to jump onto the MC train--looked like he was trying to "fit in" with all the other Cool Kids who thought it was a good idea to claim.

Singer, why haven't you claimed yet?

Did I ever give you the impression that I would? If so, I'm really sorry about that, and I'ma let you finish, but this mass claim idea was the worst idea ever.

It's k, though, Glork learned from his mistake. Now you can either lynch me or let scum decide if I'm important enough to kill, or worth saving for a mislynch later. ... Nannynannybooboo.

[singersigner]

I am lamenting the decision to request a massclaim, though. It should probably be kept to mini games, where universal cooperation and timely participation are more likely.

I saw no claims other than bv's since this post. If I missed it, welp, then I was wrong. With at least a page and a half-two pages of Tierce/AGar/Quag/Quil discussion going on in between. Again, I stand by it being poor timing and awkwardly optimistic.

Preview Edit:
The fuck...

unvote
vote: nhammen

bv's next.

[singersigner]

Er, my initial response was to Staeg but I didn't quote it/didn't post fast enough so that got lost underneath the other two, sorry.

[singersigner]

Singer, that's not what Glork's post says at all. He regrets the request of MC not because the idea of MC is bad (aka the idea of claiming), but the people just won't cooperate (aka execution).

He's admitting it's bad in a LARGE game. Which it is.

Preview Edit:
@Tierce...that's an awful vote. How the FUCK is it opportunistic? And then again, how the FUCK do you see that as any different than my vote in the next post?

[singersigner]

Not really sure what the point of your post was except to say that you disagree with the way I play.

In any case, why do you automatically assume it's an uncritical acceptance of iam's case as opposed to a critical unacceptance of nhammen's reaction? That's pretty clearly neither my thought process nor my reason for voting nhammen.

In any case, it's perfectly reasonable to think the MC should play out without interruptions/distractions. As that did not happen, the game must go on, so...cry about it?

[singersigner]

Singer, what was that last line directed at/why did you even say it?

That was directed at Simenon in response to the second quote he pointed out.

[singersigner]

Yeah. Two cop claims.

...Any docs?

You should read the game.

[singersigner]

@nhammen...I never mentioned the case, you're right. What I DID do was react to your reaction to it. I didn't clearly define what I found scummy about it, no, but your reaction to my reaction only makes me feel better about my vote. You're either jumping to conclusions about why I voted, or intentionally putting incorrect motivations behind it, neither are town-motivated.

No.

I wasn't interested in it because of its reference to you, but because of its assumption that seemingly harmless differences in word choice can predict scumhood.

I don't plan to take the idea seriously at all during this game.

What's the purpose of commenting on the uselessness(?) of something your predecessor did?

[singersigner]

I'm sure I'll have a couple comments soon. Energy's somewhere.

Apparently Izzy's the perfect innocent child.

[singersigner]

Sorry for the wall ahead of time...
I know, I hate me, too.

Jesus, people.

It's Psyche. This is the guy who made the An Analysis of Accusations of Flailing thread and is coordinating the The Science of Mafia - Central Thread stuff. He commented on that idea because he is interested on analyzing it later. Lay off.

redFF and McStabmoms need to die.

This seems like a bit of an overreaction to people just questioning him.

Don't you mean Nhammen and Nhammen?

Before you seemed like you were

willing

to vote Nhammen based on iam's findings (something about "I'd be down for his lynch based on that"), and I'm assuming the vote after his reaction to it meant that confirmed your willingness (?--correct me if I'm wrong here)...so why do you all of a sudden seem so confident in his lynch?

unvote, vote singer

because she needs to claim or die.

She never said she was against massclaim (although she called it a shitfest even that was after she thought it was *over*). She even used the massclaim early on to avoid posting content. Now she's just ignoring all discussion about why she hasn't claimed.

That seems like a pretty silly way to make me do something you probably don't want me doing. Especially considering the fact that I can (theoretically) just be confirmed by a cop, so...

I also

did

explain why I was against posting anything until the massclaim business was over (which I was apparently wrong about it being at one point), so.

As for nhammen, I'm getting a neutral read. I don't buy the argument that his reaction whips him up as scum...in fact I get an "aw shucks guys that does sound pretty damning" which is protown if anything.

I can see why you'd think that, but I disagree entirely.
(Nhammen, this is where I'm responding to you as well) See, his reaction feels cornered, like he knows he's caught, and mad at himself for somehow developing an unknown meta that he can't refute against. Then he goes on to say "well there has to be

something

, but the best I've got is...this?" He's not even confident in his own reasons for why he claims the way he does, which looks like he's just

looking

for something we might believe.

Which is part of the reason I didn't feel a need to initially justify my vote. You opened up yourself to an even more nervous reaction in that you were desperate to find

anything

you could defend yourself against.

---

Adding my comments in bold:

Posting from a library computer.
And wow, less has happened than I expected would.

Not really sure what the point of your post was except to say that you disagree with the way I play.

I've never read a game with you in it, but I think I've heard that you're a strong player, and this doesn't cut it. I doubt this is a matter of playstyle, unless refusal to produce content is now a style.

Can you please tell me where you'd heard anything of the sort? This is a serious question, and I'd like you to answer with something other than "I don't know."

In any case, why do you automatically assume it's an uncritical acceptance of iam's case as opposed to a critical unacceptance of nhammen's reaction? That's pretty clearly neither my thought process nor my reason for voting nhammen.

...because that's what anybody would assume, given the total lack of explanation that you provided?

I suppose I just offered this explanation to Nhammen, but it was clear that I was around and posting several times in between the initial iam case and Nhammen's reaction. As soon as Nhammen ninja'd me with my post, I reacted accordingly, which in turn, shows that I was clearly reacting to Nhammen, not iam. The fact that Nhammen jumped all the way back to something said before at least four of my posts since then shows that he's reaching for anything at this point. Again, with the continued bad reactions thing I explained earlier in this post.

Can you explain how my seemingly empty vote, in the sequence of events that played out, led YOU to come to that conclusion?

In any case, it's perfectly reasonable to think the MC should play out without interruptions/distractions.

um, no, you shouldn't shut people up just because there's a massclaim. Especially not a massclaim on day 1, when the town needs information.
Let's lynch singer. She's got enough of a wagon on her. I think the case on nhammen is looking spurious.

1. I didn't/don't think it was beneficial to us to have people discussing claims/reads at a time that's most crucial for scum to be able to think of something devious. In the same way a full list of town/scum reads+reasons is bad when so many people do it because it only directs scum.

Especially

not on D1 when its whole appeal of effectiveness was to limit what scum could fakeclaim. Why provide them with more information? I don't fucking know.

2. What do you think of what I've said about Nhammen thus far, and do you still feel the same way?

[singersigner]

Wtf email notifications?

I'm gunna finish being productive with shit tonight and read the last two pages. Sorry.

...

This was also supposed to be posted an hour ago...as,ldkjbfmylifeaskdjfbag

[singersigner]

The amount of prod-dodging makes me sad. Also, the fact that this singer lynch is unlikely to happen makes me sad. Deadline is Sunday, and I'm willing to vote Nhammen just to ensure we don't no-lynch.

I'm here. What rhinox pointed out about singer is valid. Vote stays.

No, it's not. It's paranoid.

No I don't. I see you list some examples that support iama's case actually and a skethcy haiku claim that doesn't really count. Then at the end of your post you say the sample size is too small and either way its a bad argument. Nothing you posted actually refutes iama's evidence at all. So why bother trying to find evidence to prove iama is wrong if your fallback is that its a crap point?

Evidence is better than no evidence. It lets everyone have as much information as possible so that they can make informed decisions. If my case is strictly more than calling it a "crap point" and that would have been good enough, I don't see why you can say that this is a bad reaction.

She's pushing vague, simple cases on people who have received little to no attention...and this is coming from someone who supposedly reads a lot of games and has to have studied up on good case practices. Both Rhinox and redFF had virtually flown under the radar at that point...a QuagScum meta, mind you, is to push cases on those under the radar D1 so in the future I can be seen as scumhunting and still avoid the potential spotlights that come with simple bandwagon lynches on protown players (which Tierce has done today also, while defending it with GlorkScum meta)*. Thus, I view this behavior as a scumtell. In addition, other than these few light and fluffy posts, she's been posting contentless one-liners** while still maintaining the illusion of being active.

I agree about her behavior concerning Rhinox, and add to it that she is doing pretty much the same thing she accuses Rhinox of. I disagree with the statement about Red, both because I find him to be scummy, and because I do not feel that he had flown under the radar prior to this. However, I haven't taken a close look at his playerslot for quite some time, so this could be confirmation bias from my earlier read on him. I actually gave Tierce a few townpoints in my mind because of her points on Red, but if my judgement of Red is flavored with confirmation bias I may have to rethink that as well.

@nhammen: I mean it feels like an opinion that predates this game and isn't tied very strongly with alignment.

I remember when I asked that question, I was reading it as this, but thinking that there is no way refusal to comment on the game can be alignment independent, so I must be reading it wrong, but looking back I can understand your viewpoint (although I don't agree), so I don't know what I wasn't seeing.

He's not even confident in his own reasons for why he claims the way he does, which looks like he's just

looking

for something we might believe.

What makes you feel I'm not confident? If it is the alternate case for people that don't accept the weird claim, I decided that anticipating an argument and giving a counter ahead of time is much more efficient than waiting for the whole inevitable back and forth. Like I'm doing here.

The fact that Nhammen jumped all the way back to something said before at least four of my posts since then shows that he's reaching for anything at this point. Again, with the continued bad reactions thing I explained earlier in this post.

Wait what? What is this you are accusing me of now? Can you show me where I did this? If you are going to make a case, at least give evidence thank you.

Given that this is how you feel about the claims (

and your reaction to my partial claim

), how do you feel about singer softclaiming a PR that "we probably don't want her to claim".

I missed that the first time I read #529. Thank you for bringing it to attention. I can say I don't like it.

Singer, you really need to claim. An unfinished massclaim is worse than both a full massclaim or no massclaim, and since one of those isn't an option any more, claim.

I'm sorry guys, you'll have wait a little longer.

I hope you'll forgive me. I'll try to make up for it with a great entrance, when it happens.

Because your predecessors. McStab's brief time as a player in particular really strikes me as something likely to come from a player replacing scum over a player replacing town.

Also I don't like your post #553.

Nnngh have to meta Staeg. But WTF DUDE. Your play makes NO SENSE AS TOWN.

Whatever, bed bed bed.

The deadline is also a few hours away. Since Tierce ain't gonna get lynched,

unvote

. As I've said previously, I'm not voting singer...I don't see her pulling this gambit as scum on day one. I'd vote nhammen I guess. There have been worse day 1 lynches.

Okay, you guys have my focus now. I'm sorry for not giving it sooner.

I agree with most of the reads in this wallpost, but I have to strongly disagree with your reads on me (obv), IAUN/Psych, AGar and red. I find the colorful phrases you use to describe my play very amusing, but completely wrong and pointless. In fact, if you take away the fluff, you are left with three sentences, one of which describes my RVS vote. What the heck JD? On IAUN, I don't see him making that case on me as scum. Scum do not go to that much effort to meta someone, even if he did miss the contraindicative (is that a word?) evidence in his search. At this point, Psych is my strongest townread in this game. I do not agree that AGar looks townish, and would definitely not go so far as to say "heavily pro-town" as you do. I have a null read on him and barely remember any of his content. And you say that red is now hyperlurking, but you don't put two and two together to notice that this began after the pressure on him dropped. He's prob scum.

You have townreads on two of my scumreads (Tierce and red). I don't see their actions as town behavior at all. I completely agree about username though. I also agree that we should lynch from the VT claim pool, although we need to add the people that haven't claimed to that as well. Singer in particular seems like obvscum to me (as you can tell from the fact that my vote has remained in place for quite some time).

@Tierce: I dislike how singer entered the game. She went on for a week hiding behind a massclaim as a reason to hold off information (seriously, who the fuck decided no content during massclaims should be a thing?). When the massclaim wrapped up, she not only avoiding taking part, but continued to avoid content, at one point saying it was just the way she plays. Generally a turn off set of events for me.

I'd be okay with moving my vote for a bit. This is the result of me sleeping on it, for the record. I'll move my vote to one of Singer/Nhammen if this doesn't go off the ground. But, lets be honest: It should.

Unvote, Vote: Staeg

First paragraph is thumbsupgood. After this... no! Bad! Staeg should not be under consideration for today. He is a claimed role, and although his posts have been light on content, I do not agree with Tierce's attack at all. Singer is the lynch of the day people. UT was quite scummy for his lurking and showing up the instant anyone commented on him, and singer hasn't done any better with her refusal to actually comment on most anything. When she finally decided to vote, it was a vote on bv without any explanation whatsoever, and her next vote was an opportunistic hop onto my wagon. And I don't think she ever did describe her reasons for the bv vote. singer, any thoughts?

[singersigner]

Comments on that coming by the time I go to sleep +

words

about JD's post.

[singersigner]

I'M SORRY FOR THE WALLS I KNOW I SUCK.

The amount of prod-dodging makes me sad. Also, the fact that this singer lynch is unlikely to happen makes me sad. Deadline is Sunday, and I'm willing to vote Nhammen just to ensure we don't no-lynch.

And you're posting instead of...playing LoL?

I'm here. What rhinox pointed out about singer is valid. Vote stays.

No, it's not. It's paranoid.

I'll comment on this only because more than one person has so it seems relavant. The possibility of a godfather honestly didn't even cross my mind, and hasn't ever until someone else brings it up in any game I've ever played. The "theoretically" part stemmed from the fact that there are claimed-yet-to-be-confirmed cops, one specifying sanity, so.

She's pushing vague, simple cases on people who have received little to no attention...and this is coming from someone who supposedly reads a lot of games and has to have studied up on good case practices. Both Rhinox and redFF had virtually flown under the radar at that point...a QuagScum meta, mind you, is to push cases on those under the radar D1 so in the future I can be seen as scumhunting and still avoid the potential spotlights that come with simple bandwagon lynches on protown players (which Tierce has done today also, while defending it with GlorkScum meta)*. Thus, I view this behavior as a scumtell. In addition, other than these few light and fluffy posts, she's been posting contentless one-liners** while still maintaining the illusion of being active.

I would've agreed with this until Tierce brought up Mafia With the Maiden. I feel like Tiercescum would've overlooked referencing that game and ridden the easy wagon.

He's not even confident in his own reasons for why he claims the way he does, which looks like he's just

looking

for something we might believe.

What makes you feel I'm not confident? If it is the alternate case for people that don't accept the weird claim, I decided that anticipating an argument and giving a counter ahead of time is much more efficient than waiting for the whole inevitable back and forth. Like I'm doing here.

The fact that Nhammen jumped all the way back to something said before at least four of my posts since then shows that he's reaching for anything at this point. Again, with the continued bad reactions thing I explained earlier in this post.

Wait what? What is this you are accusing me of now? Can you show me where I did this? If you are going to make a case, at least give evidence thank you.

Quote #1: You don't look confident because your reaction reads deer caught in a headlight. You say *shug* there must be

something

, but fail to deliver.

Quote #2: Sorry, this was actually just a mix up of posts. I got mixed up because you responded to something I was originally saying to Simenon, so I got confused and mistook you as the original person I was responding to who said I had an "uncritical acceptance to iam's case." To clarify, the sequence of events shows that I wasn't taking the case into account because of the lack of mention in the four posts I made in between his case on you, and your reaction to it. It wasn't until your reaction that I, as I said, had a "critical

unacceptance

" to your reaction. The evidence was there, just not meant for you... >_>

Singer, you really need to claim. An unfinished massclaim is worse than both a full massclaim or no massclaim, and since one of those isn't an option any more, claim.

As you later admit, it would still be unfinished.

Because your predecessors. McStab's brief time as a player in particular really strikes me as something likely to come from a player replacing scum over a player replacing town.

Also I don't like your post #553.

How do you feel now that she's actually put effort into a, as she said, "proper analysis"?

Nnngh have to meta Staeg. But WTF DUDE. Your play makes NO SENSE AS TOWN.

Whatever, bed bed bed.

Staeg's playing similarly to Arkam City, if I recall correctly.

The deadline is also a few hours away. Since Tierce ain't gonna get lynched,

unvote

. As I've said previously, I'm not voting singer...I don't see her pulling this gambit as scum on day one. I'd vote nhammen I guess. There have been worse day 1 lynches.

Gambit?

Okay, you guys have my focus now. I'm sorry for not giving it sooner.

Um.

First paragraph is thumbsupgood. After this... no! Bad! Staeg should not be under consideration for today. He is a claimed role, and although his posts have been light on content, I do not agree with Tierce's attack at all. Singer is the lynch of the day people. UT was quite scummy for his lurking and showing up the instant anyone commented on him, and singer hasn't done any better with her refusal to actually comment on most anything. When she finally decided to vote, it was a vote on bv without any explanation whatsoever, and her next vote was an opportunistic hop onto my wagon. And I don't think she ever did describe her reasons for the bv vote. singer, any thoughts?

1. I was voting when I entered the game? You, in fact.
2. No comment on bv's return vote with no explanation? Or redFF's on you? It seems to me like now you're just overlooking inconsistencies in your own logic for the sake of saving your own skin by tunneling on the competing wagon. Not to mention the fact that you overlooked JD's tendency to "line up lynches" as you tried to call me out for saying that I'd like my next highest scum read lynched as well.
3. Do you always fling buzz words like "opportunistic" around hoping people will overlook something and follow you blindly? I've pretty clearly justified my vote on you and you're only confirming it more as the day goes on.

Other thoughts before JD's post of doom...
-I'd still

really

like to see a response from Simenom because frankly what he said was scummy as fuck and I can't say why until I hear a proper explanation from him.
-I feel like Psyche is trolling us to see how long we'll go before getting fed up with his lack of participation.
-It's nice to know that our innocent child now feels like she doesn't have to do anything and won't get lynched...might be a nice way to avoid the NK, too. Izzy, can you confirm that you're at least paying attention to the game for potential lylo shenanigans?
-Flameaxe, Primate, Scooby, redFF, and Quilford have basically gone under my radar this game. Noteworthy is the fact that Scooby hasn't been around for literally a week and a half.
-Nhammen, Simenon, and JD are all special in their own little way from scummy as fuck to pending scummy as fuck to annoying as fuck if you're town hopefully you're right about the whole eating a bullet tonight thing since there doesn't seem to be a doc here to protect you.
-Everyone else is...well I'll either agree or disagree with JD's post depending on if I noticed anything/got around to your ISO when double-checking things in this post...which will have to come tomorrow, sorry.

[singersigner]

There's literally no way he actually investigated me last night

(unless OGML fucked up Normal Game guidelines--but he's a good mod, so)

.

He's either lying scum or lying town, which I won't really be able to go back and check until my internet's fixed on Wednesday morning or I find a Starbucks.

(given iam's play, and then his own, I'm inclined to believe the latter)

[singersigner]

HUGE FUCKING CATCHUP POST.

Ahhhfuck it, I'm too stressed out for this right now.

vote: singersigner

[singersigner]

Oof da.

[singersigner]

I'm still not getting the whole BP, investigative immune, non-compulsive SK, but meh. Until I found out there was a traitor, I was super fucking confused at all the mass-claimed "supposed" town power to our...none. >_>

Also, sorry for semi-trolling the game. For what it's worth, I never would've done the mass-claim anyway, I just came out of a game with Glork and Tierce as town so I ended up being a bit more of a dick about it than I would've been otherwise. I did what I could in a shitty position, I guess.

Props to CES; his play always amazes me.

Props to Tierce for making the optimal plays for a while, though I can't honestly say I wouldn't have no-killed at the end there either. There's just not much of a way to assume there'd be 5 full scum in a game this size.

Props to nhammen for going down swinging with me and taking it like a man, lol.

Props to Glork cuz <3.

Props to ogml and the dead qt for taking my rants every now and then. >_>

Props to Izzy for being the best worst IC ever.

Props to everyone who kept following along and sticking with it through the end; sometimes activity just stagnates, and it was unfortunate that with a playerlist like this, it was one of those times. I hate playing scum and I was hoping to goodness that I would die sooner or later. If not, I probably would've gone just as afk as the rest of you.

Thanks for modding, ogml!

[singersigner]

I guess that would depend on the result ogml gave the cop.

All three seem a little OP, but if you weren't full-on investigative immune, then 2/3 isn't nearly as bad.

[singersigner]

"I'm channeling Glork's scum meta from this game." lol. I wish I payed more attention when I read...