NY 161: Overly-Posh Mafia (POSH WIN - NIGHT X)

[ActionDan]

UNVOTE:

I have read 15 pages so I'm behind.

However those 15 pages are pretty informative.

Priate mollie is a town read.

I have a few others but the scum are.

Zabrial
and MattP/Boehner Police

VOTE: Zabrial

because my hope is if I'm wrong on MattP he'll eat a NK.

[ActionDan]

I'm gonna take a piss but Today's a fun D1

[ActionDan]

yea ok woo you know my scumplay boss

I know when people are BSing reads on two town people in the first 10 pages yes.

[ActionDan]

yea ok woo you know my scumplay boss

I know when people are BSing reads on two town people in the first 10 pages yes.

yea ok woo you know my scumplay boss

please die

[ActionDan]

Alright Dan why the read on Zab

from page 15. I stopped reading around then when I had my 2 scum reads.

Mozamis is town

[ActionDan]

Jesus, 14 pages.

Currently thinking Mozamis. He dropped what looked very much like a "town v town" read, and I hate those.

VOTE: Mozambique

There's currently a lot of banter bogging down the game. Om in particular has a lot more chatter than content.

UberBoober is my German The Pussycat Dolls cover band.

Not really feeling like voting Bitmap right now. Vifam seems better. Challenging town reads and all. I like my vote where it is right now though. Maybe later.

EBWOP: That "maybe later" is referring to Vifam. Bitmap is a bit lower on my radar.

This is scum posting.

First vote is so fucking lazy. also reasoning given was awful. "o man he dropped a town v town read, those suck"

then proceeds to call Vifam scummy for challenging town reads even though he just attacked someone who called two people town.

[ActionDan]

I haven't gotten to that post you've quoted yet. I will judge it when I get there but yes it doesn't seem scummy. Still possible to fake.

[ActionDan]

I'm on page 28.

I want to kill everyone who writes a wall

[ActionDan]

after page 33 Uber is town.

[ActionDan]

k caught up I have a good number of town reads so I'll just list em.

-strong town reads

Bitmap
Borkjerfkin
The Rev
UN
PeregrineV

-town reads

Majiffy
Lord Mhork
ArcAngel
mozamis
P_A

Out of the rest I feel indifferent towards many. Such as Vifam, AJ, Hero, Mollie (who was a town read but has declined since p.15)

I am not particularly thrilled with Zabriel (I recant my stronger scum read of him only with the utmost reluctence), Chkflip and IAI

Matt and Nero/Mastin smell

and I think JS is just scum from 2 pages ago.

Oooh I can be prodded. Also why should we trust you not too change wagons again?

I'm happy to sheep you but make up your mind first x

I'm going to trust you this time...
UNVOTE:
VOTE: I am Innocent

It's more that he was like he's definitely scum, the he's like Iams definitely scum and I'm like wait what you doing. Bankable deadlines

Eh, I'm not even factoring bankable deadlines into the game. I retract my statement.

Okay... slightly confused but meh.

JS was more critical in his other town games. His "trust" is feigned. All these posts together read only as an attempt to position himself on a VC and not get caught out by lack of activity or vote parking or the like.

The excuse is "bankable deadlines" which annoyingly has a precedent in freaking Zabriel but it's a dumb reason to go follow the leader.

MattP doesn't even blink.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: JS

[ActionDan]

time is only an impediment to those who make it their business to insure that it is.

[ActionDan]

I kinda doubt that.

but who knows. You've got a lot of followers

[ActionDan]

Mastin/Nero your reads votes and posts are pretty bullshit.

only difference between the quality of you and MattP is your choice of smilies vs

[ActionDan]

[: oh it's that one

[ActionDan]

I looked at your early Bitmap and Mozamis votes and I hated them.

If you as right as you think you are I am sure scum will NK you and then maybe I'll care.

[ActionDan]

Okay so Archivers hops on AJ for not wanting to spend extra time on a game that has a bankable fucking deadline.

Why can't we lynch him already

better than the other choices today.

p-edit: Don't you want to live. It's fun to live

[ActionDan]

I'm not aligning anything.

p-edit:

how the fuck can you have scum-reads on half the game.

[ActionDan]

Sorry but the fail Wifom hurts my eyes.

[ActionDan]

I like how AD has a townread on mhork and knows I could have EASILY had mhork hammered without so much as a glare my way if I wanted but I had it dismantled for no apparent scum reasoning at the last second

Really adorable his reads are

I am not sure why you're trying to guilt trip me for the last few pages when the only people who think you are scummy are me, UN, and Nero/Mastin (and they are not long for this world anyway).

I'm not stupid Matt. I feel like you're trying to shake me off. You have been focused on my read on you exclusively even though I share reservations about 2/3 of your own scum-reads (IAI and Nero/Mastin). What's the point of trying to attack me?

You know well enough that you have established a decent town read by most everyone which gives you an advantage as scum. While true you could have stayed on Mhork, it's not unreasonable to switch when the wagon grew hot to the next target. (since that's the pattern with going from Bit--->Mozamis---->Mhork----->IAI) I'm sure you can understand that passivity harms scum.

[ActionDan]

I'll make a fucking "case" if I have time tonight. Most everyone thinks IAI is at least SCUMMY so I dont fucking understand why I have to make one

what is your patented percent chance on Nero/Mastin as scum?

[ActionDan]

I shall do some really hard math.

.9x.95 = 9/10 x 19/20 = 171/200 = 0.855

[ActionDan]

it was obv me

[ActionDan]

ArcAngel is incredibly town now.

[ActionDan]

tbh I feel like voting IAI over TUA if it comes down to that.

[ActionDan]

bullshit

you said if IAI flips scum, TUA goes to 95% scum.

having TUA flipping town under that assumption implies the opposite.

[ActionDan]

bullshit

you said if IAI flips scum, TUA goes to 95% scum.

having TUA flipping town under that assumption implies the opposite.

Do you hold players to things they said before even when they bring forth new reasoning to believe something else just to stroke your ego or do you do it because you're delusional?

I did it this time to make sure everyone has a town-read on my slot.
In case they didn't already.

and maybe to poke you

[ActionDan]

He is fluffy as shit and not scumhunting at all. And he's coasting. His vote on us is opportunistic and scummy. He's absolving himself of any blame.

PV, Arc. I know you guys are on. Come vote scumSavage.

Last chance for town cred Bork.

Bork doesn't need town cred, he's already town

[ActionDan]

Lame

[insert snark here]

I'll drink AP's cool-Aid

[ActionDan]

5 secs of looking at that post and everyone should have a town-read on you

[ActionDan]

Although I didn't really think about the kill until you asked me about it

This justseemed fake, although admittedly I was remembering it as happening only shortly after the chkflip flip. Like, why say this. No one had much time to think about it.

But eh. I might be up for Zab. His omgus on me was pretty scattered and feels forced.

I was going to vote him for it.

maybe in a bit.

@Vifam, does any particular post here since D2 started give you any feeling of deja-vu?
(and yes I am implying something about the alignment of the one who posted it)

[ActionDan]

are you like,

ok matt?

[ActionDan]

ok cool

[ActionDan]

bork was always town. /talk

[ActionDan]

post.

[ActionDan]

after I finish my college duties, I'll give this thread a think tonight

[ActionDan]

so this exploded.

Taking a shower, then sitting down here.

[ActionDan]

Nacho might be right on AA.

I saw the quoted post with the no lynch vote and I understand why he feels that way.

bak to reading.

[ActionDan]

sorry I'm really mad right now and I didn't finish my read-through. there's a lot of excitement with the claims but just take it a bit slow for now please. I don't want to rush this day. ty.

[ActionDan]

Re PereV: This is more gut based. But I really feel like I get PV. His early D1 Bitmap push was such a hard sell...I don't think scum PV would go for that. ITs just too far in left field. I think he actually believed he was on to something. Also I thought him asking AA9 for scummeta seemed fairly proactive for him. Also note he later insisted that he had something with his bitmap push and linked to a game he saw something similar. Hes town.

just like to say that's how I got the strong town-read on that slot

[ActionDan]

I think MattP is town now from interactions with Om. not positive but it'd be pretty clever to come up with the line "you had one goal Om, to bleed obv-town, and you are not doing that job" as scum.

also I didn't want to say anything but I thought it was a reasonable assumption that Ckpflip was a vig target, which seems to be the case

[ActionDan]

I self-investigated last night b/c I got something from an inventor and I came up town

brilliant

[ActionDan]

wait did Matt actually claim something?

[ActionDan]

not that, I meant anything else

[ActionDan]

but no serious commiting claims right?

[ActionDan]

kk

So Pirate is just a little crazy today then gotcha

[ActionDan]

maybe the scum didn't want to risk shooting them if their kill failed N1. I dunno.

p-edit: that really is not worth anyone's time, and I'd be surprised if scum did that.

[ActionDan]

Rev what happened to that Meta Zab town-read?

Is it ok for me to call Zab scum now?

[ActionDan]

You're fucking moronic.

I've made two setups and approved of one

13p = 3 scum

17 = 4

21 = 5

You add 1 scum for every 4 players

I'll even find you a fucking thread about it in mafia discussion

But yes, a fucking "scum slip"

I don't scum slip

this sums up my opinion on this matter.

aka not a tell or slip

[ActionDan]

btw vifam and AP my strong town reads are never wrong (unless I relied on Meta).

I'm a little surprised you're going after rev/bork respectively

pedit: so? I do POE like that all the time.

[ActionDan]

What is the IAI dilemma?

how much of this game have you followed before you replaced in?

[ActionDan]

I should have just let him claim a PR

quite.

Although I'd be amused if I he did + quicklynch

and then I'd never have voted for 2 days in a row

[ActionDan]

VOTE: Buldurmer

Day 1 reads too strong.

[ActionDan]

he claimed something :O.

[ActionDan]

UNVOTE:

found it

So basically protect Mhork all game ok.

[ActionDan]

(or the claimed mason [I don't even know who it is, but one claimed besides the dead one right?])

[ActionDan]

smell's like a lie

[ActionDan]

but if you raised on the flop i'd probably fold

[ActionDan]

I forgot to push on ActionDan today

Whatever

I think it's time you go

[ActionDan]

FTR, I just wanna say this about my mattp scum read that ya'll were too afraid to sheep me/mollie on.

I'd have joined you in this, but I took back my read D3.

to my shame.

I can hammer etc. but gonna wait for a round of posters in case anyone somehow caught another scum by roles etc.

not that I expect much

[ActionDan]

eh.

while it's an obvious move, set-up with 3 masons, vig, IC, BG, and cop isn't so unplausible.

actually it is.

fuck it. While this might look like posturing,

##Vote IaI

the above argument (sccum giving up one of their own) is flawed. I invite you to think it over

[ActionDan]

the above argument (sccum giving up one of their own) is flawed. I invite you to think it over

If Matt flips town not-miller, are you against an IaI lynch?

if matt flips town isn't obvious that IaI should be lynched

really?

I mean there's no need for framer concerns because masons counter that pretty well so I doubt it's in the mafia's arsenal.

[ActionDan]

isn't it* obvious

[ActionDan]

sigh.

town.

[ActionDan]

Look at PV too

he's mason

[ActionDan]

Fuck you UN I'm in class like I just fucking said wear you big boy pants and try to act cool and sure even after I've flipped

I am not even wearing pants you asshole

And if you were in class, how come you still keep posting, and reading the thread, but still consistently refuse to provide reads on everyone?

Music theory I'm on my phone

And for the record my gunsmith claim outed this scum

So wow look at that

I wouldn't really care to give reads if I were mattp

[ActionDan]

UN, I think matt does not give a shit atm when his reads are easy enough to find, since yesterday

[ActionDan]

Matt scum => AP town only. But don't worry UN I'd never lynch you

[ActionDan]

VOTE: IaI

there's not going to be a framer because it's absolutely useless when there's IC + 3 masons.

[ActionDan]

Just in case somehow I am ever lynched over this guy. I need a blood pact from everybody here that IaI is the lynch the next day.

But don't worry I have faith (from the scum that will hopefully be bussing him to high heaven at least! ;P).

Btw, that Vifam post is also god awful. Because it invokes WIFOM in a particular way as to favor one outcome (that of BG targetting claimed cop and scum shooting claimed cop) over the other just as pausible if not more so outcomes (scum shooting BG, scum shooting IC which BG protects, scum shooting a mason that BG protects). I read it less as a "Oh this idea just popped into my mind" and more a "they gots the cop, he's totes legit"

and Vifam always thought Matt was town Vifam's vote also displays cognitive dissonance.

lol pedit: votes me, votes me not!

Vifam vote me, show some more scum solidarity

[ActionDan]

so Vifam is IaI a legit cop?

I mean you can't just quote matt's reads to dodge the elephant in the room here.

[ActionDan]

you're too savy for this. firstly the build of the set-up doesn't support framer if you pre-suppose town cop + the 6 other flipped roles and here's why: Chances are low regardless town cop hits the target that the framer also picks. so when it does happen it's a rarity. Why would the mod punish scum in this interaction by including the confirmed townies anyway when the 4 confirmed towns + cop + vig + BG are an incredibly strong force in themselves.

2ndly the actions of the claimed cop are suspect. And you ignored them in your assessment. dead guy was investigated. + investigates guy who wanted to be investigated. <----- red flags.

[ActionDan]

bbl

[ActionDan]

Mollie was telling him to investigate Matt iirc..

and why'd anyone follow through, just because it was confirmed town that issued that edict.

In IGMEOU mafia it was proposed that the cops target one of 2 people. The actual cop laughed and targetted someone else

[ActionDan]

You guys are considering busdrivers. If ANYTHING it's a redirector in the case where IaI is a cop. Let's get this set-up spec straight. Framer unlikely to hit me, so simply discount that possibility (and framers might as well just frame themsevles or their teammates. Plus being being an investigative target is not obvious imo). Busdriver is pretty dumb as well for the same reason (it's a little better since it gives scum two outs in the case where scum cops either me or a scum instead of one out). Redirector is by far the most likely. It's retardedly powerful however and JKer + redirector either doesn't exist or I'd think there'd be 4 scum.

IaI basically gave away his reason for picking me as his fake guilty. It's because I was the only one for sure who wasn't thinking he was a cop.

@To the people saying that I'd be hard to push over other people: the goal here is for IaI to simply take a stab at surviving an extra day. going 1v1 vs the guy that was sure to vote him was his best bet.

AP, it's annoying you think I'm scum from a misread of a tonal response. And I know you're snapping at it to comfort yourself because you're convinced that IaI's cop claim of three lines seems like a tonaly town post. It happens. This game is going to be a lesson for you. Logic trumps tone.

as for UN I don't think it's worth my time responding to it.
and he's still town

[ActionDan]

Dan - 4238 suggests redirector, but no explanation for why a redirector would be on

you

. That's the point of why IaI claims to have investigated you; you're an unlikely framer/driver/redirector/etc. target.

so you don't know what a redirector is?

[ActionDan]

On it!

the Redirector's target's action is the one that gets redirected. for example: A cops B, Redirector targets A and changes his target to C. A then acts as if targetting C. and gets a result as if he targetted C.

assuming he has one, IaI should clarify if the mod specifically mentioned my name rather than just guilty/innocent in his result pm

I sort of think you've been around enough to know these things majiffy but I guess not.

@Mhork because bus driver means that if IaI cop then both MattP was busdriver with scum and that I was busdriven with scum.

[ActionDan]

like what makes these roles more likely to exist than simply if IaI is lying scum.

[ActionDan]

I'm really liking town IAI here.

VOTE: ActionDan

You don't deserve your IC status for your fucking ":D" Fucking think man

It occurs to me that I'm approaching this fight wrong. I want to say as AP said "you're all retarded" but I wanted to win logically and inject only minimal emotion.

But really that post is just too much.

By the end of today I will make sure your heads will lower in shame while you question just how stupid you are for allowing this guy to walk over you.

First: Anybody with any decent experience in this game, who is savy in regards to balance of roles, types of scum play, and in general has a sense of fucking probability, would be questioning and ultimately voting the cop claim

The only one of you that I know that posesses these qualities is Vifam. What makes Vifam scum is simply this:

I thought I implied my stance on it once I voted you

Yeah IAI is probably legit, chances are they're framer and scum got lucky with MattP, it'd make seeing the build of the setup

Because no, the chances are fucking low of IaI's cop target coincidences, and the set-up simply doesn't support framer either. Vifam is simply throwing out shit. Never an explaination why IaI is legit. Just is.

2ndly let me direct you to all the posts mentioning Matt as a town read followed by the vote on him without thought. Then the post where Vifam votes me in succession.

Oh my town reads are basically all the really active people. Herobrine, MattP, Bitmap, Majiffy, Mollie. Prob Vifam although quite often he seems to just agree with whatever MattP has said. Still, I've sheeped myself, so it's not a scum read, just something I'm looking at.
Everyone else null or pos scum.

TBH I actually find a lot of what MattP says illogical but it's a lot easier to just nod your head in agreement, ya know? Plus he's town so it's like whatever

Vifam who was your biggest townread going into last night?

Also ya matt is scum too.

So lets do this. Zabriel/Vifam/Matt. Awesome picks for today.

That's a terrible list.

My biggest townread was MattP and it still is MattP

Also @

AJ

: I have a question I want to ask you in real time when we are both on.

Fair enough.

Hmm, guess JS is kinda in my lens via PoE. Im getting some good townreads this game. JS had one post in particular that rubbed me wrong.

But he is an easy wagon and the votes on him seem like layovers from yesterday / no real reasoning provided (hell I consider link to a post with 'gut' as reasoning enough for me to consider). I'd rather lynch a scumbag today that is less likely to get lynched w/o my help, (So basically you/mattp). Because if I die, there is no fucking way either of you is getting lynched.

I'm not scum though.

98% sure MattP isn't either

Whatever, I didn't think MattP was scum before this and I don't now, it's gonna be pretty hard to convince me

Literally all your scumreads revolve around MattP, who is probably town.

I guess your right, AP. Eh, I think MattP is town but I guess he's a good investigation with the suspicion on him

AP is town
MattP is town
PirateMollie is town
Vifam is town
Mhork is town
P_A is town
Bork is town
UberNinja is town
Majiffy looks town but he's my weakest read
Same with PV

Everyone else is fair game

VOTE: MattP

The BG died so scum are obviously trying to get to someone

Btw, that Vifam post is also god awful. Because it invokes WIFOM in a particular way as to favor one outcome (that of BG targetting claimed cop and scum shooting claimed cop) over the other just as pausible if not more so outcomes (scum shooting BG, scum shooting IC which BG protects, scum shooting a mason that BG protects). I read it less as a "Oh this idea just popped into my mind" and more a "they gots the cop, he's totes legit"

I still don't get it tbh. I just thought Buld died because scum wanted to get to other roles

and Vifam always thought Matt was town Vifam's vote also displays cognitive dissonance.

I thought MattP was town but that doesn't mean I'm not gonna swallow my pride and vote him if he turned out guilty

Oh wait nevermind I misinterpreted the convo with PirateMollie and IAI

If IAI has a guilty on ActionDan we should just lynch him since I doubt the scumteam had a correct frame twice. Especially when they're players who are more universally suspicious like Majiffy or to some extent Rev. ActionDan's isn't acting particularly town since D1 ended so whatever

VOTE: ActionDan

NEVER ANY DOUBT. I can vote MattP cause of cop claim HURR DURR. Buldermar died BG so obviously scum are trying to kill "

someone

" off, but it could be any role, like our IC, or maybe our masons! I sure wasn't implying that scum totally wanted to take out the cop claim thereby suggesting that said cop claim is town!

No townie would EVER go willie nilly down lynch road after a cop claim got their #1 town read lynched without at least thinking about whether maybe the cop is lying scum (which again is at least something that isn't hard to imagine, hell most of this town can at least SEE it).

More telling is this sentence I'll quote it again,

ActionDan's isn't acting particularly town since D1 ended so whatever

VOTE: ActionDan

Because did that fucking matter when you voted MattP? Don't Think So!

After IaI, you lynch this town.

I'll respond to IaI and his wall throwing shit on me in a min.

[ActionDan]

NEVER ANY DOUBT. I can vote MattP cause of cop claim HURR DURR. Buldermar died BG so obviously scum are trying to kill "someone" off, but it could be any role, like our IC, or maybe our masons! I sure wasn't implying that scum totally wanted to take out the cop claim thereby suggesting that said cop claim is town!

I wasn't


MattP was my townread but I saw the guilty report at about 2 AM and I just thought "Oh well played MattP" and just voted. I wasn't hesitant cuz it was late and idrc

You've seemed to care all throughout this game, you wouldn't have that many posts otherwise regardless of form. I don't believe you'd let go of your town-read yesterday, and not question the cop claim in any serious regard today.

Sure, Dan. If you flip town, we'll totally lynch off IAmInnocent and Vifam.

Also you don't have to be mean about this... It's rude.

Really will you? MattP died screaming for IaI lynch, so it doesn't inspire that much confidence saying this now. Not just you btw, UN is also saying he will fo sure lynch IaI tomorrow even though he was all for IaI being lynched today with MattP flipping town the day before. However I think the shame of town getting fooled twice should be enough

Actually I want to talk about/to UN.

If Matt flips town, IAI gets lynched.

If Matt flips scum, IAI gets killed anyway.

Problem solves itself.

Next.

k I can dig

Vote: ActionDan

p.s. i am really proud of you all for not quick lynching the cop w/a bad result btw
in games with lesser players this could have gone horribly horribly wrong

i.e. disney villains

holy fuck i will never live that down BUT it also wasn't my fault because they lynched all sorts of people that were 100% town

kinda like AP in this game


p-edit: yeah i got it.

How in the world did you go so fast from one idea to another based soley on IaI's spec about a possible busdriver (like congrats you now know what a busdriver does, why I'd be unlikely to be targetted by one, and a possible reason a town cop would target me to avoid one of the two parties being busdrove: but how can does this in any way convince you IaI isn't simply lying about being a cop)?

VOTE: IaI

there's not going to be a framer because it's absolutely useless when there's IC + 3 masons.

this is setup speculating instead of saying "no, he's lying, i'm town" or something similar

this doesn't sound like a town response

I voted IaI in this post before IaI claimed a guilty on me. Even so, did I really have to say that I believed he was lying while voting for him?

What if AD flips town?

At how many mislynches does this stop being a framer and start being bullshit? Because anyone willing to lynch AD needs to ask themselves that right now.

If AD flips town then IAI is pretty much 100% scum

and he will be laughing at how he suckered us twice

But based on everything so far + the setup, I'm far more inclined to believe IAI than ActionDan

also, ActionDan was not a prime target for framing or bus driving so 2 + 2

I'll be laughing at you at the very least for your shit-tier play today.

Well Dan pushing IaI as scum is kind of a bad scum play since he goes down if IaI flips town today.

So maybe you are town?

You didn't think he was a cop? Why does that matter for who scum-IaI fake investigates then? If you flip town, he would def go down tomorrow and I think everyone is on that page.

You asked me to respond to this somewhere.

I get the feeling you don't get what scum do these situations. If I were scum here I wouldn't be looking to survive more than the next lynch considering the circumstances. I would never bank on anything else. Neither would IaI. As is MANIFESTLY OBVIOUS but apparently peolple like relying on the opptimism of role-spec like relying on a gut-shot in hold'em. It matters only so much as to negate a vote for the hail mary that is to come.

[ActionDan]

You guys are considering busdrivers. If ANYTHING it's a redirector in the case where IaI is a cop.

You call me scum, but then throw this out there? Why even entertain the idea? Trying to sway the people who believe I am the cop by saying 'yeah I could still be town too'?

IaI basically gave away his reason for picking me as his fake guilty. It's because I was the only one for sure who wasn't thinking he was a cop.

No, it was your lurking. It was you not placing a single vote the day we lynched scum. It was your defense of AA9 as absolute town.

Now that we're on it, why did you not vote D2? And why do you have more posts D4 now that you are under pressure than all of D2?

@To the people saying that I'd be hard to push over other people: the goal here is for IaI to simply take a stab at surviving an extra day. going 1v1 vs the guy that was sure to vote him was his best bet.

Okay, so say scum IAI wants to start off the day by surviving. Why not pick an easy target like the ones mentioned today? Why not start off the day with my Bus Driver theory and vote you right off the bat, rather than sit back?

Or could it be that I am the cop. I crumbed it in post 1. There was no CC. I targeted one of my top 2 targets N1, the one I thought would be harder to lynch. She ended up being a mason. As you can see D2, even before I claimed, I did not suspect pirate one iota. Then came D3 when I asked pirate who to investigate. She included matt in every list, and at one pt only asked for matt in one post. So I did, and my N3 investigation came back guilty. He flips town, which means in my mind, scum tampered with it, likely targeting matt in some way (not a redirector as you are trying to push).

At this point it is you vs me. You continue to argue setups and such, but refuse to point out how I have been scummy outside of matt flipping differently than I said. So please, read the prior paragraph, and show me the scum motivation in my actions. Or motivation in any of my play this game.

I'm "throwing redirector out there" because if you are town it's the most likely explanation you got 2 guilties in a row by a huge margin. This isn't me trying to sway people. This is me trying to at make people see reality when half of everybody doesn't know how to set-up speculate properly. And those fail arguments assume framer/busdriver which if you pre-suppose those exist you can excuse the guilty on MattP and then say "well it's unlikely Dan was framed cuz what are the odds?". So Yeah I suppose I'm swaying people indirectly.

I haven't been in the game since D1. I got back to school and had shit tons of work to do. I was in 5 games at the time and wasn't contributing much across the board. Didn't vote D2 because I didn't feel like it. I'd have voted MattP Zab or JS but didn't really feel confident so I didn't vote. At the end though after Nacho quoted AA's no lynch post I might have voted it. assumed AA9 was noob before so I thought her reading the thread showed townie effort. Saw no-lynch was like, ok. maybe not.

Who's an easy target? Maybe it was the guy who's not been active and called AA9 town D2? See what I did there.

The scum motivation is in claiming to target Matt. Why would a cop target the guy who himself wanted to be targetted. Since Gay mafia is now over I'll talk about our hydra's experience with being a cop. We choose unlikely targets so as not to be fucked over. that's it! Coincidently we got scum N1. and later we proved there was a redirector, and apparently you still don't know how that role works. They don't target your targets. They target you and change your action to a target of their choice. So if you're a cop they just redirect you to one of themselves and you get a scum result everytime. As for mollie, you didn't talk about her at all one way or the other. And didn't crumb the result at all before the claim. This is about the only thing that gives me any pause, however, but I think giving out a false result twice beats that out by a wide margin.

I mean your answer to finding me scummy is lurking after D1 and calling AA9 town. And posting more D5 when there's a claimed cop calling me scum. So double standards much?

[ActionDan]

majiffy how invested in this day will you become

[ActionDan]

Actually I want to talk about/to UN.

How in the world did you go so fast from one idea to another based soley on IaI's spec about a possible busdriver (like congrats you now know what a busdriver does, why I'd be unlikely to be targetted by one, and a possible reason a town cop would target me to avoid one of the two parties being busdrove: but how can does this in any way convince you IaI isn't simply lying about being a cop)?

i'm more interested in how you kinda skated through the entire game and only now you're beginning to get active

it's possible he's lying, yes, but it's still a better idea to keep him around one more day than keep you around one more day

if you're town that either means either a) scum was INCREDIBLY clairvoyant in framing you, or b) IAI is lying and scum

that would not have been the case with Matt however because he was an obvious target for this type of thing and you were clearly not, and there is also the fact that IAI sounds completely legitimate about this and you, in fact, don't

i have had cop results on me before as scum and there are only two things you can do

a) get super active all of a sudden, and suggest all kinds of ridiculous stuff to WIFOM people out of thinking clearly, or
b) give up and vote yourself

and you are doing exactly the same kind of "a)" that I would do

VOTE: IaI

there's not going to be a framer because it's absolutely useless when there's IC + 3 masons.

this is setup speculating instead of saying "no, he's lying, i'm town" or something similar

this doesn't sound like a town response

I voted IaI in this post before IaI claimed a guilty on me. Even so, did I really have to say that I believed he was lying while voting for him?

operative words: "or something"

you sounded like you were more interested in whether or not you could get yourself out of a scum result via setup speculation, than shocked, surprised, and full of righteous anger at what was an incorrect result

in other words, you fucked up bad

Hey Uberninja, here's an idea!

Try reading posts in the right order scrub.

Also why don't you point to "all the ridiculous WIFOM" I've been spouting. Go on, quote a post, tell me where the WIFOM is at. I'm not scum DGB here. If you want WIFOM, look no further than blaming the fake guilty on a framer result (since apparently busdriver/redirector aren't allowed) while ignoring the just as pausible play of IaI getting value out of his last day by securing a mislynch on MattP.

[ActionDan]

Oh shit he just called UberNinja a scrub

He's trying to escape the newbie cage but he should know his place

[ActionDan]

Hey Uberninja, here's an idea!

Try reading posts in the right order scrub.

a classic scum-lashing-out-because-they-know-they're-already-as-good-as-dead moment

ha

I knew I'd never get a competent response. Keep on doing scum's work for them.

I'm done with you. you got nothing to say.

lol at Vifam. Why's it so obvious. enlighten us

[ActionDan]

This isn't a matter of framer hitting twice this is a matter of AD being scum, plain and simple. If AD flips town IAI is pretty much confirmed scum. There HAS to be some other powerrole on the scum side, like I said earlier All Goons + JK with all this townpower makes NO SENSE.

why does it have to be all goons?

Do you just make these assumptions and call them out to assume other spurious claims?

you are implying "framer in set-up" to justify IaI town.

Instead of using clearly circular logic, why do you think IaI is town?

[ActionDan]

Let me rephrase the first sentence.

Why must it be one way or the other with you. 3 masons IC vig Bg vs JK/*/*/*/(*) is not hard to imagine.

[ActionDan]

IF IaI is indeed a cop, yes, It would have to be a framer with busdriver/redirector ruled out

That presupposes IaI is an actual town cop.

Why do you think that.

Your response to "IaI is town" was
"there is obviously a framer in this set-up"

Which is not an explanation of your stance

[ActionDan]

You've seemed to care all throughout this game, you wouldn't have that many posts otherwise regardless of form. I don't believe you'd let go of your town-read yesterday, and not question the cop claim in any serious regard today.

I'm pretty serious when I say I think IAI is legit

At the point MattP was guilted I just handwaved my townread on him, this was all late at night and I wasn't in the mood for thinking hard about the situation at hand. In any case where I'm town I'd probably do the exact same thing and worry about whether the cop was legit later

Caught.

You called IaI legit when he was up against MattP.

How would your claim that "ActionDan doesn't really seem town" account of IaI's "legitness" in that 1v1 that didn't involve me.

[ActionDan]

when you voted MattP.

And in your retroactive explanation you pre-face with "I'm pretty serious when I say I think IaI is legit"

would you not have to think IaI is legit to vote the guy he guiltied especially when MattP was a town read?

[ActionDan]

like the lines

I can read between them

I just hope the rest of town can

[ActionDan]

Doesn't really fly when IaI was in large part suspected.

But basically that's your deal. All-in-all I think you displayed greviously scummy behavior. The difference between going with me now because you suspect me more vs going with Matt the day before because cop claim with a guilty and you didn't care cuz it was late is too stark.

It's not like you've taken any measures to evaluate IaI vs my play other than to say that I lurked and therefore I'm scummy even though that's completely null.

[ActionDan]

If IAI is town and AD is caught scum, case closed obviously. But let's say IAI is scum. Isn't there a decent shot he's giving us a scum buddy to optimize the team's chances? If we lynch AD and he's scum we believe IAI for most of the game. If we go with IAI as scum, we write AD off as another attempt from IAI to set up a townie and he slides through.

VOTE: ActionDan

welp lost my post.

but shortly

1)

What are you trying to say? Are you trying to optimize the lynch in case we are both scum by justifying that if IaI is lynched I'd slip through the cracks from the town cred?

2)

Do you realize that If IaI guiltied a buddy that in the case I was lynched be facing the question of why he was alive the next day. And he'd probably get lynched eventually for it.

3)

Don't you understand that getting the correct lynch and saving a day is more important. Optimizing the lynch is what was tacitly done yesterday when the town voted MattP.

Do you not have an opinion on me Vs. IaI? If so, why did you not feel like including it when voting?

[ActionDan]

If we lynch AD and he's scum we believe IAI for most of the game. If we go with IAI as scum, we write AD off as another attempt from IAI to set up a townie and he slides through.

VOTE: ActionDan

In fact this sentence makes NO distinction between either of us even if we are talking simply about utility. How did you get that vote there.

[ActionDan]

Doesn't add up: Guilty on Matt, which is a frame or scum IaI
Guilty on AD... and it's not a frame?

a) It's a frame if me and IaI are both town.

b) It's not if IaI is town and I'm scum.

c) It's a fake guilty if IaI.

Chance of a) is absurdly small.

IaI is fake-claiming (again) here but Vifam would have you believe otherwise.

Of course Vifam is scum spouting "AD is fucking scum dude" to try to antagonize you (and whoever will listen) into voting me. Even though the strength of that statement has no backing what-so-ever besides "AD isn't particulary town since D1 ended so w/e"

I mean if I was town D1, that doesn't change my alignment later on. Not acting town in Vifam's mind = lurking. Which is a stance that's full of shit.

If you read Vifam's posts today it's all about throwing endlessly and endlessly the idea that there was a framer on MattP, and none on me all the while supposes IaI is truely a cop without in the least bit thinking that that might not be the case.

[ActionDan]

I'm more inclined to believe IAI with his not being CC'd and his crumb over your posting. It's not awful, but it's not towny enough to make me back you over IAI.

Why do you think the way you do.

Give my an opinion that you can back up instead of this.

not being CC'd and a crumb should NOT be creditted. the cop claim happened in response to Matt's fake-claim. It might have been snapped, but it was a mandatory action since IaI believed Matt was telling the truth.

The cop crumb is one that I have done before as scum in case I was ever caught. Here's the snippet from a shrinemaiden game so you guys can see the form:

Let me ask, are you convinced Shadoweh is 100% scum?

Continuing onwards presently...

Oh, cut by Schezo. To be honest the issue sorta subsided.

found it yet? I was scum that game. It's a tactic scum set-up in case they need it. Town cops don't usually crumb their role in case scum find the crumb.

[ActionDan]

Framer / Busdriver / Whatever, they're has to be SOME type of counter to all the PR's town has All Goons + JK makes no fucking sense. Framer would be a more direct counter to cop, but a busdriver seems more helpful to the scumteam from what I'm hearing. I don't see how ActionDan isn't the optimal lynch for today since IAI JUST being scum doesn't add up well

this this this this thsi thsi...

I want to touch on this again.

Besides the gratuitous "IaI JUST being scum doesn't add up well" said for no fucking reason other than to seduce votes onto me and to play into fail set-up spec, the reality of the what you can expect for balance is quite different.

in a 13 p game you've got about 3 scum on average. A town PR roster of vig/cop/BG is reasonable where scum has a medium strength team, which will probably be on the order of GF/rolecop/goon, possibly featuring substituitions of roleblockers or other information gathering roles like scum watchers/trackers in place of rolecop. Still featuring around one goon. This is a balanced setup

to get from 13 ---> 21 add 6 town and 2 scum to approximately maintain the 3:10 rate. But in this setup 4 of those 6 town added are confirmed town by either being masons or an IC. Suddenly game is no longer balanced but swings in the favor of town. And adding a framer to scum just won't cut it. Because A) chance of cop hitting frame target is very very low so it's not a super effective counter and B) even if it hits there is a 4/20 chance of hitting a mason, IC anyway, and it's rendered even less effective.

The remedy is taking out the cop role and realizing that 3 masons + IC > power of the cop anyway.

[ActionDan]

I'll be around after I write a movie review due at 12.

[ActionDan]

Hey Mr. Cop.

While you're waiting for patiently for a hammer, have you got any thoughts about anyone else besides selectively responding only to my posts.

I mean you'd have to be thinking that my flip would put you on the hit list.

but you don't seem so concerned. It's almost as if you aren't expecting to die tonight! I couldn't imagine why that is.

[ActionDan]

I haven't been in the game since D1. I got back to school and had shit tons of work to do. I was in 5 games at the time and wasn't contributing much across the board. Didn't vote D2 because I didn't feel like it. I'd have voted MattP Zab or JS but didn't really feel confident so I didn't vote. At the end though after Nacho quoted AA's no lynch post I might have voted it. assumed AA9 was noob before so I thought her reading the thread showed townie effort. Saw no-lynch was like, ok. maybe not.

But yet in 2405, the post after you acknowledged the Nacho quoting AA no lynch, you said "...there's a lot of excitement with the claims but just take it a bit slow for now please. I don't want to rush this day. ty."

Interesting to note in 2305 the vote count had AA9 at 4 votes already and tied for the longest wagon. Losing the Roleblocker with a claim cop, no good right?

Who's an easy target? Maybe it was the guy who's not been active and called AA9 town D2?

Well first of all, you called her town

D1

from what I can tell. And please don't insinuate you were an easy target, by my count, D2 & D3 had 140 total votes cast, only 1 of which ended up on you. So don't go there.

The scum motivation is in claiming to target Matt. Why would a cop target the guy who himself wanted to be targetted.

The second sentence makes it a bold, but smart move then, to be scum and asked to be investigated, right? Would bold correctly describe Matt? WIFOM is what it is called, and hence why I disregarded Matt's request in the final decision to who to investigate.

I already expressed why I targeted Matt. I let Pirate have alot of say, and actually I agreed with her as Matt's play got steadily worse D3.

As for mollie, you didn't talk about her at all one way or the other. And didn't crumb the result at all before the claim.

If I had concern about being NK'd, I would have crumbed it yes. But with Matt pushing me, I thought 1) if Matt was town, scum would allow this conflict to go on so we'd be left alone and 2) if Matt was scum, a NK of me would have put pressure on him the following day, so that wasn't likely either.

in order:

Your response to the first paragraph doesn't make any point. I didn't want to rush the day because I was hoping I'd have time later to give my input. which didn't happen because I never got that time.

Ok, if I'm not an easy target, (despite the many people including confirmed town declaring that I'm a blind spot) than who is? not once today have you ventured to give any other reads besides trying to defend yourself and push the lynch unto me.

there are in all probability 5 total scum. One of which may or may not have been MattP. You say MattP invoked Wifom. Yet you still chose to indulge in it. If you chose anyone else it was that much more likely you'd get a correct, untampered with result. Instead you took the 50/50 "wifom."

First, any cop should ALWAYS be concerned about getting Nked, vigged, or otherwise unable to communicate the results of the previous nights. THERE ARE NO "BUTS" HERE.

and Second:

your thought process (which no legit cop would even think of "O boy this guy pushing me will determine whether I live or die cuz he's the MATT-FACTOR!") is narrow-minded and pretty obviously made up on the spot. There are a host of other variables that'd be floating in your mind. "Maybe scum know my role and will kill me!" "Maybe scum will kill me to make town matt look bad!" "Maybe Matt scum will kill me so he wouldn't have to beat a dead horse!". "What about all the other people not named Matt? Do they think I'm town or scum, will they push me?" etc etc.

[ActionDan]

'cause he doesn't really want to lynch him?

Rev, is there any reason we shouldn't see how Dan flips and then deal with IAI accordingly? Why the claimed cop first?

Rev, is there any reason we shouldn't see how MattP flips and then deal with IAI accordingly? Why the claimed cop first?

[ActionDan]

Why did I write in my own name in that quote

Guiser slip. Moza guised into Vifam.

VOTE: Action Dan
4205 makes a lot of sense.

btw.

Since Majiffy seems not to have any time besides offering this tidbit for the day. I recommend he be lynched after IaI and Vifam.

let me break this post down.

At home now.

Here was my thoughts:

1) Matt's flip put one thought in my head. Bus Driver. I've never played with a framer before, but looking that up on wiki I agree that is also a possibility. With town's power, it does makes sense for one of these two to be in the game actually. I realize now that being obvious with the investigation target was not a good idea.

2) With #1 in mind, I wanted to stay away from the likely targets. I looked at D2 again, where AA9 was lynched, and found ActionDan not voting the entire day. His iso matches his predecessors, both as lurkers. That made me feel uneasy. Add in posts like 1217 "ArcAngel is incredibly town now.", I felt this was the best option as well as one of the least to get switched via a bus driver.

3) Got the investigation back, and saw I was still alive. That made me realize scum must think I would be the easy mislynch today. So I sat back, figuring most, but probably not all of the scum would come after me. My hope was AD would be the one who didn't, which would make catching the rest easier. But he was one of the ones pushing, so I came out immediately with my result at that point.

Those are my thoughts/reasons for doing what I've done. It is basically 1 vs 1 at this pt, if I go today, AD goes tomorrow. If AD goes today, I will be confirmed cop and def NK'd tonight. I do not foresee any add'l protective roles, but at least my death will keep the other confirmed townies alive another day.

1) no. "realized now". No way. It doesn't take a genius to realize the counters to a cop role. The most easily reconizable is the Godfather role and it's certainly not a novelty in IaI's mafia career. If IaI had any sense of danger (and you always have this as a cop) maybe he would not have so rashly tried to investigate the guy that wanted to be investigated. The "humble" apology is simply him trying to minimize the inconsistancy by admitting to "bad play"

2) "Likely targets" Who are they? If they are people percieved to be scummy by the town then why hasn't IaI mentioned them at all. Notice there is no "maybe I would have gone for XXXX or possibly YYYY"

3) "My hope" O really? So my reversal in stance wasn't enough to suggest I'd come out against you today? Especially when MattP flipped town. Pure Bullshit. In fact, once MattP flipped town, did you not immediately, and I don't mean after the night phase was over and you were alive, did you not immediately think, "Holy shit, I'm fucked! They'll all think I'm a liar!!!"

No? that thought only mozzy'd on in by the start of today. "Hmm why am I alive? hmmmmmmm. oh Maybe scum will mislynch me. But certainly I shall not let them get away with it!"

PEOPLE. FUCKING. THINK.

[ActionDan]

uber you really give me a workout do you know that?

I am not sure. IaI's overall play looks much better than dan's. he breadcrumbed early, viewed his top scum read on n1, followed his conf town read's suggestion on n2 and for the most part he reads as genuine. dan's play at the end of yesterday when he was all ack ack ack matt is town looks terrible. and he only developed a sudden interest in the game when he was under fire looks even worse. but something is out of place but maybe it is just you and majiffy and dan. <---- not a lot of associative tells related to you 3.

breadcrumbing early as a cop is crap play, and it fits perfectly with scum setting up a fake claim (you can ask Mhork btw. in newbie 1180 his scum partner Darth Yoshi set up a similar fake Cop breadcrumb). copping your top scum read is also questionable. "hmm I've got a power to determine whether someone is scum or not, let's use it on the guy I already think is totally scum!" You use it on someone you aren't sure about that isn't a town read.

Unlike the rest of you fools I actually have a brain that can go beyond the 1st comforting thought of "oh the claimed cop said that my long-time suspect is scum. Everything is right in the world!" All I did was reevaluate claimed and flipped town power and realized it was too much.

Yeah. You try having someone fake a guilty on you and push for your mislynch, which if it goes through almost certainly hands the game over to scum. I'm still playing to win. I can't believe you're actually saying my renewed effort is "worse than terrible".

Shame on you.

[ActionDan]

in lieu of AP, I'll answer those.

a) not mylo because mylo = 5 scum in 12 players = 6 scum to start with in a 21 player game = huge scum team = unbalanced (and we already know that scum had the powerful mafia jailkeeper).

b) Have you not detected by now the raw emotion and vitriol emanating from my posts? If we were both scum this day would have been long over, and I'd never inject such vehemence in ridiculing this town.

[ActionDan]

Associative tells are only any good when you have a scum flip, Uber Goober.

false

you have clearly never solved this riddle

Einstein wrote this riddle last century and said that 98% of the world's population would NOT be able to solve it.
Are you a part of that 98%?

There are 5 houses that are each a different colour.
There is a person of a different nationality in each house.
The 5 owners drink a certain drink. They each smoke a certain brand of cigarettes and also have a certain pet. No owner has the same pet, smokes the same brand of cigarettes nor drinks the same drink.
The question is. "Who has the fish?"

CLUES

1. The British man lives in the red house.
2. The Swedish man has a dog for a pet.
3. The Danish man drinks tea.
4. The green house is to the left of the white house.
5. The owner of the green house drinks coffee.
6. The person that smokes Pall Mall has a bird.
7. The owner of the yellow house smokes Dunhill.
8. The person that lives in the middle house drinks milk.
9. The Norwegian lives in the first house.
10. The person that smokes Blend, lives next to the one that has a cat.
11. The person that has a horse lives next to the one that smokes Dunhill.
12. The one that smokes Bluemaster drinks beer.
13. The German smokes Prince.
14. The Norwegian lives next to a blue house.
15. The person that smokes Blend, has a neighbour that drinks water.

Do you want the answer? Do you think you are in the top 2% of the world's population?

only 4 pets are mentioned, dog, cat, horse, bird. There may or may not be a fish. The question can't be answered.

[ActionDan]

go die in a hole UN.

[ActionDan]

Not only no vote, but no accusation, nothing. Just tried to slow things down on the AA9 wagon while defending an earlier town read on that slot. Why would town Dan be so concerned with his earlier read though without highly suspecting AA9 at this point. And if he highly suspected AA9, why no vote. Only conclusion, Dan is scum trying to distance without bussing a roleblocker with a claimed cop out there...

nice misrep. It's true I did jack shit that day. However, I didn't defend AA9 at all. The only townread I reiterated was the one on PV. It pretty clearly says "PV" in the post you quoted. Go home.

Lmao. Go ahead, explain why it's "garbage". I spent my posts explaining exactly why your posts were pieces of crap. Your inability to do the same is telling.

"Why would scum IaI play this way"

Is it so fucking inconceivable that scum who got off a mislynch the day before wouldn't try for the hail mary the next day. Impossible! you say. Like it hardly mattered what you did. You were suspect before and then completely doomed once MattP flipped town.

Nice. you value your potential cop result (which could be framed regardless from your POV) over your stating and arguring for the lynching of the other scum reads you have after you've gone...

That's hogwash. With town at 2 mislynches away from defeat, your input is less valuable than a potential cop result?. Hell you could even pick a target at random despite whatever opinions you divulge. AND on top of that. Town will have no guarantee you would have gotten a legit result.

[ActionDan]

What do we have to do to make them believe you

When IaI is eventually lynched whether it be today or tomorrow,

Lynch this thing. Lynch it.

Vifam's "belief" is untraceable. It comes from thin air.

and DO NOT get sucked in by Vifam saying "oh well, I thought AD was scum because I didn't like his posts D2"

Hold him accountable for supporting the MattP lynch even though Matt was his strongest town read
Hold him accountable for constant refrain of calling for my lynch when he gives no substance in support besides his vague read of me D2.

[ActionDan]

...hogwash

your face

[ActionDan]

Let me post the next 5 posts from Vifam so he can lurk into oblivion and not waste his time

ActionDan is scum. Lynch him

ActionDan is scum. Lynch him

ActionDan is scum. Lynch him

ActionDan is scum. Lynch him

ActionDan is scum. Lynch him

[ActionDan]

because I wasn't going to vote without a reread. that applied for anyone.

[ActionDan]

I have a screening in 7 min. I'll be back ~2-3 hours.

answers will come then

[ActionDan]

-strong town reads

Bitmap

Why was bitmap your strongest townread that you listed him first here? I thought hw was town too when I took the slot but it wasn't my BEST townread.

ArcAngel is incredibly town now.

Why did you say this?

Spoiler:

the above argument (sccum giving up one of their own) is flawed. I invite you to think it over

If Matt flips town not-miller, are you against an IaI lynch?

if matt flips town isn't obvious that IaI should be lynched

really?

I mean there's no need for framer concerns because masons counter that pretty well so I doubt it's in the mafia's arsenal.

Ok that quote is shady. Im not sure what to say about this.

Matt scum => AP town only. But don't worry UN I'd never lynch you

You are saying that matt flipping scum means Im town? Who was this in response to?

Those strong townreads were in no particular order of strength. Bit got the town read for the first 10 pages of the game. His conscientious posts interacting with Boner Police mirrored my own thoughts (i.e, Boner pushing Bit = bad, fluff != scum).

Arc angel I thought showed initiative to begin with, and was displaying effort. But I thought the post about scum-hunting "in her own particular way" read genuine for a newbie. Om was a town read before so I just bumped her up.

that was directed at UN's 4133. The end of it

reads:

Rev} - town never lynch
AP} - town never lynch

Bork} - pretty sure town but I should check over him.

UN} - was pretty sure town but god damn his posts betray such stupidity. I have decided that most likely he just thinks he's smart. When he's not. at all.

AJ} - Well he's supporting the IaI lynch at least. I never thought he was bad before, but I will have to look over him as well.

IaI} - lynch him no if ands or buts

Vifam} - scum.

Majiffy} - didn't think more than "4205 makes sense". Even with his limited time on his hands, that's incredibly poor to vote in a 1v1 with a reason so flippant. He isn't thinking. He's prob scum

P_A} - leaning scum for this day. Sticking to optimizing the lynch betrays not reading a word of what IaI or I post, or if so, not giving 2 shits about it.

[ActionDan]

VOTE: IaI

there's not going to be a framer because it's absolutely useless when there's IC + 3 masons.

And this is what I was waiting for. Action Dan came back as scum. I was wondering why scum let me live must be they felt I'd be an easy mislynch after a bus driver or someone interfered.

vote action Dan

I'll explain more tonight when I am home on my computer

Oh wait nevermind I misinterpreted the convo with PirateMollie and IAI

If IAI has a guilty on ActionDan we should just lynch him since I doubt the scumteam had a correct frame twice. Especially when they're players who are more universally suspicious like Majiffy or to some extent Rev. ActionDan's isn't acting particularly town since D1 ended so whatever

VOTE: ActionDan

k I can dig

Vote: ActionDan

p.s. i am really proud of you all for not quick lynching the cop w/a bad result btw
in games with lesser players this could have gone horribly horribly wrong

i.e. disney villains

holy fuck i will never live that down BUT it also wasn't my fault because they lynched all sorts of people that were 100% town

kinda like AP in this game


p-edit: yeah i got it.

Why did I write in my own name in that quote

Guiser slip. Moza guised into Vifam.

VOTE: Action Dan
4205 makes a lot of sense.

You guys are considering busdrivers. If ANYTHING it's a redirector in the case where IaI is a cop. Let's get this set-up spec straight. Framer unlikely to hit me, so simply discount that possibility (and framers might as well just frame themsevles or their teammates. Plus being being an investigative target is not obvious imo). Busdriver is pretty dumb as well for the same reason (it's a little better since it gives scum two outs in the case where scum cops either me or a scum instead of one out). Redirector is by far the most likely. It's retardedly powerful however and JKer + redirector either doesn't exist or I'd think there'd be 4 scum.

IaI basically gave away his reason for picking me as his fake guilty. It's because I was the only one for sure who wasn't thinking he was a cop.

@To the people saying that I'd be hard to push over other people: the goal here is for IaI to simply take a stab at surviving an extra day. going 1v1 vs the guy that was sure to vote him was his best bet.

AP, it's annoying you think I'm scum from a misread of a tonal response. And I know you're snapping at it to comfort yourself because you're convinced that IaI's cop claim of three lines seems like a tonaly town post. It happens. This game is going to be a lesson for you. Logic trumps tone.

as for UN I don't think it's worth my time responding to it.
and he's still town

I'd vote ActionDan, but I dunno how many votes are on him.

Also I think that a bus driver makes total sense. It punishes the town for a mass claim by giving targets to swap mafia for townies, easy targets to redirect the vig, and the ability to try and frame someone. Why are people so convinced that it wouldn't work in this setup? 0.o

...yeah?

Or it means that MattP was driven and you actually are scum. That's likely too.

PEdit:
That doesn't make sense. Cops and busdrivers work great together.

It also gets around the bodyguard.

I'm really liking town IAI here.

VOTE: ActionDan

I'm really liking town IAI here.

VOTE: ActionDan

You don't deserve your IC status for your fucking ":D" Fucking think man

It occurs to me that I'm approaching this fight wrong. I want to say as AP said "you're all retarded" but I wanted to win logically and inject only minimal emotion.

But really that post is just too much.

By the end of today I will make sure your heads will lower in shame while you question just how stupid you are for allowing this guy to walk over you.

First: Anybody with any decent experience in this game, who is savy in regards to balance of roles, types of scum play, and in general has a sense of fucking probability, would be questioning and ultimately voting the cop claim

The only one of you that I know that posesses these qualities is Vifam. What makes Vifam scum is simply this:

I thought I implied my stance on it once I voted you

Yeah IAI is probably legit, chances are they're framer and scum got lucky with MattP, it'd make seeing the build of the setup

Because no, the chances are fucking low of IaI's cop target coincidences, and the set-up simply doesn't support framer either. Vifam is simply throwing out shit. Never an explaination why IaI is legit. Just is.

2ndly let me direct you to all the posts mentioning Matt as a town read followed by the vote on him without thought. Then the post where Vifam votes me in succession.

Oh my town reads are basically all the really active people. Herobrine, MattP, Bitmap, Majiffy, Mollie. Prob Vifam although quite often he seems to just agree with whatever MattP has said. Still, I've sheeped myself, so it's not a scum read, just something I'm looking at.
Everyone else null or pos scum.

TBH I actually find a lot of what MattP says illogical but it's a lot easier to just nod your head in agreement, ya know? Plus he's town so it's like whatever

Vifam who was your biggest townread going into last night?

Also ya matt is scum too.

So lets do this. Zabriel/Vifam/Matt. Awesome picks for today.

That's a terrible list.

My biggest townread was MattP and it still is MattP

Also @

AJ

: I have a question I want to ask you in real time when we are both on.

Fair enough.

Hmm, guess JS is kinda in my lens via PoE. Im getting some good townreads this game. JS had one post in particular that rubbed me wrong.

But he is an easy wagon and the votes on him seem like layovers from yesterday / no real reasoning provided (hell I consider link to a post with 'gut' as reasoning enough for me to consider). I'd rather lynch a scumbag today that is less likely to get lynched w/o my help, (So basically you/mattp). Because if I die, there is no fucking way either of you is getting lynched.

I'm not scum though.

98% sure MattP isn't either

Whatever, I didn't think MattP was scum before this and I don't now, it's gonna be pretty hard to convince me

Literally all your scumreads revolve around MattP, who is probably town.

I guess your right, AP. Eh, I think MattP is town but I guess he's a good investigation with the suspicion on him

AP is town
MattP is town
PirateMollie is town
Vifam is town
Mhork is town
P_A is town
Bork is town
UberNinja is town
Majiffy looks town but he's my weakest read
Same with PV

Everyone else is fair game

VOTE: MattP

The BG died so scum are obviously trying to get to someone

Btw, that Vifam post is also god awful. Because it invokes WIFOM in a particular way as to favor one outcome (that of BG targetting claimed cop and scum shooting claimed cop) over the other just as pausible if not more so outcomes (scum shooting BG, scum shooting IC which BG protects, scum shooting a mason that BG protects). I read it less as a "Oh this idea just popped into my mind" and more a "they gots the cop, he's totes legit"

I still don't get it tbh. I just thought Buld died because scum wanted to get to other roles

and Vifam always thought Matt was town Vifam's vote also displays cognitive dissonance.

I thought MattP was town but that doesn't mean I'm not gonna swallow my pride and vote him if he turned out guilty

Oh wait nevermind I misinterpreted the convo with PirateMollie and IAI

If IAI has a guilty on ActionDan we should just lynch him since I doubt the scumteam had a correct frame twice. Especially when they're players who are more universally suspicious like Majiffy or to some extent Rev. ActionDan's isn't acting particularly town since D1 ended so whatever

VOTE: ActionDan

NEVER ANY DOUBT. I can vote MattP cause of cop claim HURR DURR. Buldermar died BG so obviously scum are trying to kill "

someone

" off, but it could be any role, like our IC, or maybe our masons! I sure wasn't implying that scum totally wanted to take out the cop claim thereby suggesting that said cop claim is town!

No townie would EVER go willie nilly down lynch road after a cop claim got their #1 town read lynched without at least thinking about whether maybe the cop is lying scum (which again is at least something that isn't hard to imagine, hell most of this town can at least SEE it).

More telling is this sentence I'll quote it again,

ActionDan's isn't acting particularly town since D1 ended so whatever

VOTE: ActionDan

Because did that fucking matter when you voted MattP? Don't Think So!

After IaI, you lynch this town.

I'll respond to IaI and his wall throwing shit on me in a min.

so now we're outguessing the mod?

okay i'll play

but tell me why IAI's story makes sense and actiondan suddenly has a bee in his bonnet
why wouldn't he be calm and cool, knowing that IAI just led a mislynch on matt, and

that nobody would listen to IAI today

Spoiler:

because he wasn't expecting to be inspected, that's why

Reality.

Uberninja can't see it

[ActionDan]

VOTE: ActionDan

I'm flipping town.

I hope you guys learn a huge lesson from this. I doubt UN's peanut sized brain will learn shit. but I dunno. Maybe AP will learn about set-ups.

Maybe Mhork will learn to grow up.

lynch IaI tomorrow.

Lynch Vifam after that.

Lynch Majiffy after.

And then consider P_A.

Rev and AP are the most obvious town here and are not to be lynched. I have no fucking idea what scumslip mollie found but I didn't say anything so I'd buy her vote. Un is shit and town.

bork is prob town for being senisble.

AJ is also prob town.

I hope > 1/2 of you go to hell.

[ActionDan]

Dan, if you be town, please dont hate me for this. If I were a Town Governor, I would vote you and then PM Maestro that Id like to govern that shit over to Majiffy. But Im not. And this is a spam post.

VOTE: Action

Still want to see these people go down:
Majiffy
Bork
Vifam

townreads off the top of my head from strongest to weak:
Penguin
Uber Goober (I had to say it once : P)
AJ
Reverend

IaI/Dan.....We will know soon enough I guess.

@Mollie: In the even you don't die tonight, Id really like you to consider Bork-scum. Why is anyone reading him as town?

your last post attacking me for standard procedure was disgusting. I hope you never write shit posts like that again

[ActionDan]

Maybe once AD flips you can read me more objectively instead of being suspicious of every single post I make

maybe when I flip town people will actually trust me when I say you're scum.

one could hope.

but maybe not with Mhork still alive. what a useless sack

[ActionDan]

take your shit tier play and reenter the newbies please.

[ActionDan]

I wash my hands of this game. It was no failing on my part on how this day turned out.

ITT you're scum. get lynched.

[ActionDan]

:/

Still fairly sure that neither was scum.

The setup is really more ridiculous w/o the cop.

no it is not.

no it is not.

Jesus christ. think of all the setups you've played in 13 p, where there was a cop. Then expand that out to 21 players adding 2 scum and 6 town.

If IaI is not lynched after I flip there will be no words.

Bork doubted the cop. That's sensible. Compare to Vifam and Majiffy that went to support him with barebones reasoning.

And yes AP. I lurked. However my D1 play was town, my thinking was matching yours, and my lurking was universal throughout all my games. It should have been treated as null.

Vifam is posturing even when I already have said that I'm flipping town. I mean this doesn't get more obvious.

[ActionDan]

I've seen framer in normals. People were unhappy.

I don't have a lot of experience in normals -- is it a tendency for scum to have counters to town PRs?

Seriously, this needs to go.

ok. maybe this is a good lead.

even so, it's kinda benign.

It's more important that Vifam and Majiffy die

[ActionDan]

that last ?? is vifam.

Yes scum could posture. no more than 1 of them did. Honestly feel free to question Bork if need be. But trust me that Majiffy and Vifam are scum. Or trust me after I flip town.

Also trust me that IaI is faking it. I spent all my efforts trying to show you guys that in my posts today. Even his damn emo-cons are fucking scummy.

[ActionDan]

think about how you would play as a cop in his position. Then read over his posts. see if you agree, try to think if you'd done anything differently. Then read my posts ripping IaI's posts apart.

[ActionDan]

needless to say, if anyone claims anything besides VT at this point you insta lynch them

[ActionDan]

yeah. you see, you're looking at it in the worst possible way.

Let's say the vig and cop shoot and check people that aren't the 4 confirmed towns. P.O.E rapes the scum team. It wouldn't even be fair.

And I'm been screaming at the top of my lungs about this. I knew people were not reading. Part of the blame goes to UN who sucks at mafia, and literally can't be bothered to read jack.

You guys have no more mislynches. You're bound to lose because of today's fuck up

[ActionDan]

btw,

It was terrible play to reveal PeregrineV as the last mason. I was amazed when I read that. It was an indicator that ~all of town~ is inexperienced

[ActionDan]

Thanks for dodging the question.

And uh I've made my stance on IAI vs Dan pretty clear.

to be frank. You could have done a much better job at advertizing it

[ActionDan]

did an iso of today.

Bork's ok still. as in, still town.

[ActionDan]

I don't know. tell them they're idiots. I am forgetting who your other scum reads are or if you would focus more on that after me and IaI had been settled. But if you wanted to try and scumhunt those guys more, you'd have actually been able to get them to listen more and force them to give out more material.

what faults you have pale in comparison as far as I am concerned.

[ActionDan]

btw,

It was terrible play to reveal PeregrineV as the last mason. I was amazed when I read that. It was an indicator that ~all of town~ is inexperienced

inexperienced as a special? fuck yeah. where were you to help guide us, you sanctimonious [redacted].

only rolled mason once before as an indie prior to this.

I didn't trust the other players in this game not to go retarded on him and lynch him since that was the direction that certain players (probably scum) were heading. and I was taking in what mhork was saying.

you are scum aren't you

I call things as I see them. And this town is inexperienced, and bad.

[ActionDan]

And was I right in thinking you don't actually have any "slips" on UN. Because I'd assume by now you'd out it, ya know, with the high probability of you dying tonight

[ActionDan]

Vifam, Uber, and Majiffy are basically just fucking around

Well we've got someone we believe to be scum claiming town ITT. So uhhh until we see a legitimate lynch, what the fuck is the point pondering the possibilities?

the three of you "believed" I was scum with a distinct absence of critical thought or analysis.

[ActionDan]

well for UN's case really crappy analysis. Confirmation bias supplied most of his reasoning.

[ActionDan]

And was I right in thinking you don't actually have any "slips" on UN. Because I'd assume by now you'd out it, ya know, with the high probability of you dying tonight

I already have. where have you been.

you are scum aren't you

you never said what it was.

I checked again. I should remember that I'm the only sane one here. didn't know what I was expecting.

anyway have a pleasant death tonight

[ActionDan]

your reason for voting me was.

"4205 makes sense"

Am I missing anything

[ActionDan]

actually don't bother answering, since you don't have any.

4205 was IaI trying to explain why he copped me. Which even if you consider plausible for why a cop might investigate me, does not condone the complete rejection of considering whether IaI was in fact a cop.

[ActionDan]

Yeah, did you read 4205?

p-edit: Yes. And that's why I voted you. Because the post made perfect sense to me. Your secondary refutation doesn't actually hold as the lynching of your slot (the greater benefit of the two in a risk-reward analysis) would tell us if the cop claim was in fact legitimate.

is it justified in your "risk-award" analysis to forgo lynching the claimed cop even if it caused the lynch of a townie the day before on the strength of his guilty result.

I don't think so.

[ActionDan]

if dan flips scum we

still

to lynch majiffy at some point but look at borky too cos he had a similar reaction as dan's

and then penguin for dropping 2 kill tells which no one seems to want to consider

you wouldn't know a scum-slip if it was dropped in front of your face

[ActionDan]

I just wish UN was here.

I wonder what he'd say.

would he believe that I was going to flip town? would he continue to treat me like scum?

p-edit: Doesn't mean it isn't a possibly. It's just incredibly small one that is overshadowed by IaI being scum

[ActionDan]

Anyway majiffy.

If you're town prepare yourself for your lynch. It's coming up.

If scum please die silently

[ActionDan]

Uber Goober (I had to say it once : P)

Daykill: AngryPidgeon

o hey, how's life?

[ActionDan]

Oh yeah. Gimme a sec for mass claim list.

Majiffy
Aj the Epic
TheReverend
penguin_alien
Vifam
Borkjkork
UberNinja

There.

MVP.

[ActionDan]

Agreed. Never making the mistake again with Uber though.

I think there seriously needs to be a discussion about proper play about balance and cop claims.

Jesus christ.

[ActionDan]

I mean you guys got it off, EVEN with Bork voting IaI.

[ActionDan]

Agreed. Never making the mistake again with Uber though.

I think there seriously needs to be a discussion about proper play about balance and cop claims.

Jesus christ.

I saved up clippings of all the comments you made saying I was the worst townie ever and that I should stick to newbie queues.

Should I share them here? lol

Ya I'm well aware.

Your scum play is still terrible. It works but once. It took all my double thinking abilities not to call you scum.

[ActionDan]

Vifam played well.

Bork had me fooled.

Uber I thought was pretty good until Matt's death.

[ActionDan]

Your scum play is still terrible.

lol okay

you profitted from a weak town, who lynched me over a busted cop.

[ActionDan]

MattP is actually good though.

Also I question how people thought Rev was anything but obv-town

[ActionDan]

The setup itself seemed pretty townsided though

I assume you guys were all goons?

Setup wasn't too townsided imo.

You have 5 scum in 21p which traitor or not, is strong for scum.

town PRs are 3 masons, 1 IC, 1 BG, 1 vig. basically 5 confirmables + 1 guy who'll die anyway. vig goes against the masons and the IC. Scum JK shuts down vig if he claims. Scum NK shuts down masons + IC if they claim. If none claim there is at least some chance vig will shoot masons / IC.

It's pretty managable.

[ActionDan]

Yeah I hear you. I don't expect anyone to necessarily believe me, but this is the honest truth. I am a 30 something yr old married man who never had a cell phone before last November (my wife had a 60 min per month phone for emergencies). We went straight to smart phones. One of the benefits to having this is I can check my mafia games at work, which blocks the site. So it is easy to go to the top of my webpage on my phone, and hit the swirly arrow to refresh, and the box at the top that indicates a new page has been started.

Posting on it for a guy who has never texted or anything, not so fun. Which is why most of my posts are in the mornings, lunch time, or evenings. It is why as AP likes to point out, it took 17 mins to get on, respond to matt about being the cop. The other day, I was reading on my phone at work, and saw dan's vote and push on myself so I started responding. I didn't see your post until it showed up in the preview box afterI submitted my response to Dan. Honest truth. Coincidental in hindsight, yeah I could see that. But a 4 minute coincidence none-the-less.

And for the record Mollie and all, this post was 100% true.

I didn't attack it :3. I knew it was true. It was almost puposefully alignment neutral though

[ActionDan]

and ya IaI, I did know I was the easiest. I tried my best to argue that.

Seriously though I had you dead to rights.

[ActionDan]

AP didn't know a thing about balance. It was unfortunate.

[ActionDan]

Like I said, my goal was to go with the cop, and I think I did a good job of making it believable. Heck even AP didn't vote me D5, and say what you will about most of the town at that pt, he is a solid town player.

You were damn lucky you just so happened to prepare for a cop claim, which would counterract a gunsmith

yeah there was luck involved with that for sure, but he took advantage of the preparation he had already laid

and then he got both you and AD lynched with a ridiculous amount of swagger

therefore he is the scum MVP in my eyes

hiding in plain sight.... you clever mother fucker, IAI

Good play to claim a guilty on Matt.

Equally best play to claim a guiltly on me.

But my lynch was accomplished with the help of some of the town being in the 5% bracket

Actually UN I had him dead to rights. Sorry!

[ActionDan]

and ya IaI, I did know I was the easiest. I tried my best to argue that.

Seriously though I had you dead to rights.

no actually, he had YOU dead to rights

like I said:

By the way, how did we manage to lynch AD over IaI ffs?

because AD was playing like shit and IAI had his ducks in a row

get with teh program

like my shit play = lurking all of D2 + D3.

[ActionDan]

Like I said, my goal was to go with the cop, and I think I did a good job of making it believable. Heck even AP didn't vote me D5, and say what you will about most of the town at that pt, he is a solid town player.

You were damn lucky you just so happened to prepare for a cop claim, which would counterract a gunsmith

yeah there was luck involved with that for sure, but he took advantage of the preparation he had already laid

and then he got both you and AD lynched with a ridiculous amount of swagger

therefore he is the scum MVP in my eyes

hiding in plain sight.... you clever mother fucker, IAI

Good play to claim a guilty on Matt.

Equally best play to claim a guiltly on me.

But my lynch was accomplished with the help of some of the town being in the 5% bracket

Actually UN I had him dead to rights. Sorry!

of course you had him dead to rights

usually the townie with a fake guilty on him has a LITTLE bit of confirmation bias, at LEAST

more like My argument trying to prove he was a lying cop to the rest of town was accurate in determining his motivations, and unravelling his cover story and arguments.

I mean you didn't read them from a town perspective, so I suppose it's hard for you to judge

[ActionDan]

I think Matt P should be scum MVP.

no sorry, think what you might, that should go between Mhork and Majiffy

[ActionDan]

I don't know man, I think Im just hard to lynch because no one ever really builds a case on me I don't know why, it's like every game I'm in if people think Im scum they just give up half way through the interrogation

Hard to build a case off of one liners. Info is spread so thin

[ActionDan]

for me it wasn't even your reads that were the problem.

It was your blatant refusal to read jack shit when the fakeclaiming cop was locked into a 1v1 with me.

[ActionDan]

Dan, pal, my belief was due to the fact that you were sketch all along, and IAI had a great claim and game.

Relying on "belief" without reading the thread is sickening to me

Neither did you ever engage me about what was "sketch"

Similarly you showed an unwillingness to read what I wrote about IaI's claim and play, which in my opinion, completely deconstructed his claim

[ActionDan]

First impressions are everything

only to the weak-minded