NY 163: Void Mountain of the Nightless Temple (Game Over)

Jennifer · Post Post #476 (isolation #0) » Tue Mar 26, 2013 12:33 am

Hi everyone! Looking forward to playing with all of you! (And looks like this game will be good practice at learning to read hydras, wow)

Heading into work now, but will get up to speed here later today. Let me know if there's anything in particular you think I should pay attention to.

Jennifer · Post Post #484 (isolation #1) » Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:09 am

I'm on page 12! My eyes started glazing over, so I need a break.

tl;dr At this point people I'd consider lynching would be BT, Titan, Keybladewielder, Titan, Robo, MO. Initially Bulb as well but I'm starting to come around on him. People I'd definitely not lynch are HD and AA (maybe because I've played with them before.. getting same vibe).

Notes:

Spoiler:

Jennifer · Post Post #509 (isolation #2) » Wed Mar 27, 2013 3:32 am

Hey guys, I have a hellacious long day at work today coupled with a work event tonight, so I likely won't be able to touch this game until late tonight or tomorrow (realistically it will be tomorrow unless I can't sleep).

I am mindful that we have a deadline coming up in a few days, and I will be ready before then to fully engage.

Titan, I saw you have questions for me, and I will address those as well as soon as I finish up my catch-up.

Jennifer · Post Post #518 (isolation #3) » Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:34 pm

Alright, I'm going on 3 hours sleep and am exhausted, but I need to get a catch-up behind me. Not sure I'll do things the same way again next time I replace in. I saw that some don't even read the posts made before they replaced in, and that sounds so appealing now.. But, I do think it's useful and we need to quickly consolidate a plan for today, so here goes…

ok.. just finished but I cheated at the end.. I think brain just won't function anymore.

VOTE: MO

MO is still coming across scummy to me and has 2 votes on him, meaning might be a viable lynch for today.

If I have to will vote TAM to secure a lynch (though given Voided's policy of plurality voting looks like wouldn't be needed)

Reason is I would rather vote someone who is still in the game, because means their scumminess is more likely because they really are scum and not because they no longer want to play.

I'm disappointed TAM wants to replace out at this point though. Seems like should be finishing day, especially as top contender.

@Titan Brief answer before I crash. My notes weren't necessarily on things that were scummy but rather things that seemed odd/important to note. That way if there is a collection of odd things I can see a pattern more easily. Re lurkers.. I have. I finished a game where Jacob was scum and lurked through to a win. But it still seems like when you have people doing things that are actively scummy, you're better off getting them first rather than eliminating unknown because they're unknown (though Jacob was kind of scummy in his own right.. but enough people gave him a town read for drawing a pic, it was hard to get vote on him). I can answer more substance later.

skim

Spoiler:

Jennifer · Post Post #560 (isolation #4) » Sat Mar 30, 2013 5:57 am

My family apparently lives in twilight zone. No reliable cell/wifi service. So V/LA until home. Though will post if can get through!

Arc, what makes you uncomfortable about MO train?

Given their "farewell" I'm finding that hard to come from town.

Will look at TUA more closely once back but they didn't stick out as top contender to me during my read through.

Jennifer · Post Post #659 (isolation #5) » Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:39 am

Back in civilization, catching up today.

Jennifer · Post Post #678 (isolation #6) » Wed Apr 03, 2013 2:33 am

Welcome, DGB and Zdenek.

I skimmed at what I missed while gone. I want to start playing the game at the same time of the rest of you and not a few days behind like I have been (sorry).

We only have 3 days left to reach for a consensus on a lynch, so I think barring something crazy that we need to decide between lynching Underachivers or Keywieldblader.

I would vote KWB but he just posted that he is V/LA this week and if not back needs to be replaced, so we won't get anything more out of him.

VOTE: Underachivers
^

L-2

Jennifer · Post Post #682 (isolation #7) » Wed Apr 03, 2013 10:42 am

In post 681, TheUnderachivers wrote:Explain the difference between KBW being V/LA and mastin2 being V/LA.

KBW is one person and Underachivers is two. A hydra isn't V/LA unless both heads are, as proven by you being here talking to me even though your partner is gone.

I agree that lurking is a method that scum use to try to avoid attention, but given he said he won't have internet access and may need to replace out that seems like a different situation than lurking to slide by.

Jennifer · Post Post #785 (isolation #8) » Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:10 am

I miscounted I think when I said my vote for Underachivers was L-2.

The argument that there is no difference between one player being inactive and half a hydra being inactive is ridiculous. You know what we got when the pressure piled on Underarchivers? A lot of posts. You know what we would have gotten by piling pressure on KBW? Nothing. Not one post. Anyone who refuses to recognize the difference is being disingenuous.

I also don't like how Archivers distances from reads and blames the reader ("You should know it was my other half that gave that read, not this half!" It makes the reads useless, and not informative for mining for data the next day if we're wrong and they end up flipping town.

Jennifer · Post Post #790 (isolation #9) » Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:39 am

In post 787, TheUnderachivers wrote:So you don't think that when something has wrongly been attributed to you...you should just like not say anything right?

The thing is, you =! Nero or Mastin. you = Underachivers

So when "you" speak here, it's speaking on behalf of the slot. It's hard enough to try to figure out who has real reads versus who is faking. Throw a hydra team into the mix where they air their uncoordinated thoughts out in the thread instead of in their private hydra chat, and it gets even more confusing and nigh impossible to figure out.

Do you really think that if scummy posts are written by one head of a hydra, the slot shouldn't be under suspicion of being scum just because the other head comes on and says they disavow that post?

It's like... if I was to develop a split personality disorder and say "don't mind my scumminess from before, that was just the other me writing. This me would never say that!" It's just not convincing.

Jennifer · Post Post #792 (isolation #10) » Thu Apr 04, 2013 8:15 am

Okay @Underachivers

This is what I would like to clearly understand in a follow up post from you please. Even if Mastin is V/LA, I am hoping Nero can still answer for him given your hydra communications. If Mastin hasn't indicated a read on a specific person then indicate that below:

What specific reads are Nero/Mastin both aligned on and what are those reads?
What specific reads do Nero/Mastin disagree on and what are those reads?
What people do neither Nero or Mastin have a read on?
If one of you has a read on someone and the other has no read on that person, who is the person, who has the read (and what is it), and who has no opinion?

^This post will help us should we be wrong about you, so if you're town you should be willing to clearly indicate the above.

Jennifer · Post Post #796 (isolation #11) » Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:34 am

@Archivers Thanks for the list. What gives you (Mastin only, I guess) a scumread on me? As best I can tell your reasoning was that I wouldn't vote someone who was V/LA with mention of possible replacement needed and because I wanted people to choose from the major trains because we are close to deadline. Any other reason?

I'm surprised you both agree on Oterscum/DGBscum. I haven't gotten that sense from them. At what point did those feelings solidify for you both (to the extent anything can 'soldifiy' day 1)?

Jennifer · Post Post #841 (isolation #12) » Fri Apr 05, 2013 5:32 am

@DGB Gah.. no self-votes. That never, ever, ever helps town.

Also, Voided is using plurality lynches, so whoever has the most votes when the deadline hits is lynched. The majority is only used for ending the day early if we can all agree (no clue what happens if we have a tie but no majority at deadline -- first to get to that number?)

I forgot Antilles was playing.
@Antilles What points of TUA made you unvote?

Jennifer · Post Post #860 (isolation #13) » Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:26 pm

Um... No power roles, no night kills. Only kills in this game are via lynch.

Jennifer · Post Post #885 (isolation #14) » Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:34 pm

UNVOTE: TUA
VOTE: MO

I like TUA's staying in fighting against the lynch.

Jennifer · Post Post #903 (isolation #15) » Sat Apr 06, 2013 3:32 am

The last few games I have had votes where I initially thought someone to be scum, started to get last minute doubts, but didn't switch my vote because I gave in to inertia and laziness of not changing my read. While I was being lazy and not following my gut, someone came along and hammered and the flipped was town, so I should have followed my last-minute gut.

I'm started to get that same twinge here, so I'm trying to play better now.

I find it interesting that Otterhorse/MM/RachMarie call me scum for changing my vote, yet we don't even know how the flip is going to turn out (or even who will flip!)

Also, if you're going to call me scum for changing my vote, show me where only scum ever change their vote last minute.

Jennifer · Post Post #952 (isolation #16) » Sun Apr 07, 2013 3:24 am

In post 912, OtterHorse wrote:Namely its the way you went about the TUA wagon. At first its a vote on him INSTEAD of KBW (who I was expecting a vote from you on if you were town) because KBW is V/LA (like that matters in this setup) when you have in the past called KBW a scumpick but not even mentioned TUA.

Then you shift to trying to justify your vote and it seems to fall under "You are confusing" more than "you are scummy". Im not sure you actually give any real reasoning for him to be scum more than dislike of lack fo hydra communication. The whole time you again ignore KBW.

Actually buck it.

There's nothing town about voting someone when they have no internet access and say they may need to replace out. Even when it's by a scum read. On Day 1 there is little information to go on and so, by necessity, scum reads are formed on the flimsiness of reasons. While KBW turned out to be scum, you shouldn't judge decisions by their outcomes. I did the right thing by voting someone who would actually be able to see and respond to that vote.

@Klick Why are you voting me? Your only comments on me so far have been that I've made good posts and then you vote me. What's up with that?

@Rach Are you just sheeping or do you actually have something concrete that you can point to. You've been extremely vague.

@MO I'll be honest.. I'm finding it very hard to force myself to read your posts.. if you're going to use the quote button PLEASE put your posts OUTSIDE of the quote box. I don't like to read a quote and try and figure out if it's really a quote or a response to one.

In post 944, Metal Overlord wrote:Ok firstly I'll rebut the points that I can rebut against me, and I'll let KX rebut those which are targeted at him, because he knows his own intentions better than I do

I thought you said KX rageqq'd. Is he still playing? You should know his intentions just as well because you need to be communicating inside your hydra thread not here. You're held to your partner's posts.

In post 931, Metal Overlord wrote:MS:
good job guys

thats why we need policy lynches

And yet you voted TUA... why didn't you vote KBW if you are such a fan of a policy lynch on KBW?

VOTE: MO

Jennifer · Post Post #968 (isolation #17) » Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:23 am

In post 955, Rainbowdash wrote:

But you passed on a vote of a scumread who would be V/LA until deadline to vote the player who "didnt stick out to you" just two posts in iso before. I can understand if we are talking weeks to deadline and its two players you read as scum, but avoidance of the wagon how you did reads very poorly. Especially when you consider how serra acted towards KBW and how he was scummy either way.

Also what MM said is a good point, you jumpe from TUA to MO because TUA was "fighting for survival" which is exactly what MO was doing. Only player getting votes not doing that was KBW, who while V/LA was a noteable scumread of yours. What made the TUA vote bad but MO vote good since your reasoning doesnt quite hold up.

You could always just vote Antilles though. He is also scum and I would be willing to kill him if thats what we want to do first.

Yes, I purposefully made the decision to not vote someone who couldn't get to the computer to play the game and said he may have to replace out. And I would make that same decision again, barring a cop read or equivalent where I knew the guy was 100% scum. Like I said, day 1 is too early to have any solid reads in my opinion that would justify voting someone who can't even play over someone who can and who can, therefore, contribute. That you would have made a different decision doesn't make me scum.

When I got back from Easter, the MO wagon was pretty much gone and we only had a few days left before deadline. The viable wagons at that time were KBW and TUA. I voted TUA. Later, MO became viable again and I went for it because I got that gut feel that I shouldn't just let the TUA wagon happen (also as I've already explained) and he was still there fighting. Yes, MO posted when he looked like he would be the lynch, but that has little relevance to my gut feel on TUA (and the F-U drawings by MO did not scream out town.)

In post 957, RachMarie wrote:
To further elaborate... I have played with Town Serra before, and before you state oh he obviously was busy and that is why he did not play like usual and then replaced out card, all someone has to do is go check out Serra's posts... See if he replaced out of ALL of his games. That is about all I can say though because of redacted....

I do think that Serra replaced out because he did not have the time to devote to playing a good scum game. Normally I read replacing out as a null tell, and I admit mostly a gut read based on Serra's posts. The AtE though by Jen kinda reinforces my read.

I am not impressed with Antilles either they never did address my question about both hydra heads...

I can't say anything about why Serra replaced out because I don't know. I'm not sure what "AtE" you're talking about. You only give vague reasons for your read and seems like you're just trying to jump on the popular wagon du jour.
- What specifically about Serra's play did you find not like his town play?
- Also, even assuming I'm your top scum read, who else do you think is scum? Are you calling Antilles a scum read, or are you riding the fence on that one?

In post 958, Ms Marangal wrote:OMG KBW was scum, yay.

and that's a total misrep of my case on you Jen, and I didn't even vote you

How did I misrep you?

In post 964, Metal Overlord wrote:

Others proving my point for me holds more credence to me proving it myself. Besides, many others were against me for a policy lynch, especially Bulbazak, well so I don't policy lynch, and let you guys do it. Guess what? I was right!

Um.. what? How does this make sense?

In post 965, Metal Overlord wrote:
Lol i'll let KX talk to you since you just love mislynching me >.>

I thought KX rage-quit. No longer true?

Jennifer · Post Post #969 (isolation #18) » Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:32 am

In post 955, Rainbowdash wrote:You could always just vote Antilles though. He is also scum and I would be willing to kill him if thats what we want to do first.

Why Antilles and not some other lurker?

Jennifer · Post Post #978 (isolation #19) » Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:08 pm

I'm done defending myself. I've already explained my actions and I can't speak for why Serra was only in this game for 7 days and decided to replace out. Possibly he didn't like dealing with all the hydras, possibly he found it hard to get his head around a game this large, possibly he didn't like that it was nightless and so there is no reprieve during the game from posting/thinking. Who knows.

Anyway, theLurker needs to stop lurking, and we need to hear from Antilles and Bulb too. (Maybe others? I'm losing count of who has requested replacing out but hasn't been replaced yet.. just Robo now?)

Jennifer · Post Post #989 (isolation #20) » Tue Apr 09, 2013 2:22 am

In post 986, Ms Marangal wrote:I'm voting her because she changed her vote" is a
complete
misrep.
yea, it's one of my reasons
for wanting to vote her,

Jennifer · Post Post #990 (isolation #21) » Tue Apr 09, 2013 4:21 am

I feel like the biggest challenge this game is going to be fighting against inertia/avoiding falling into the dreaded lazy town lull.

My wagon has moved super fast for vague gut reasons, and no one seems willing to stand behind anything concrete, fearing to be pinned down. And no one on my wagon seems inclined to do the work to see if they're right or if there are better lynches out there, content instead to just park.

So, if I'm the lynch today,

YOU NEED TO WAKE UP

. Go back and look at who was on the Fuzzy wagon and my wagon. Also, stop giving MO a pass.

Actually, I want to hear everyone's opinion on MO who is currently voting for me.

Jennifer · Post Post #996 (isolation #22) » Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:18 am

I..... think you hammered me, Angel.

Jennifer · Post Post #998 (isolation #23) » Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:21 am

Oh wait, 9 to lynch, 8 to no lynch. Whew.

I'm not sure what else to say to put your mind at ease. Nobody has put forth a case on me they're willing to stand behind, and I can't respond to a gut argument (let alone a gut argument that isn't even on me, but on Serra).

I can say I'm not scum, but that's not going to convince anyone either, so... I feel stuck here.

Jennifer · Post Post #1000 (isolation #24) » Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:25 am

In what way do you find it different?

Jennifer · Post Post #1044 (isolation #25) » Thu Apr 11, 2013 3:08 am

Welcome, BBMolla!

I'd love to get your opinion on MO and also have you look at the people on my wagon. I got run up to L-1 for reasons no one is willing to commit to...just a whole of 'bceause.' I think at least one scum, if not more, has to be riding my wagon.

Jennifer · Post Post #1061 (isolation #26) » Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:08 am

In post 1046, ArcAngel9 wrote:jen, you're no more at L-1, stop worrying.

But you're still voting me.

(And, <3, I like playing with you too)

I can see that there isn't enough support for a MO wagon today, barring some unforeseen changes.

In post 1047, Ms Marangal wrote:
Antilles
and TUA would be decent, though I do still prefer
Lurker
and I'm still not seeing townJen

What is with your obsession with lynching people who are replacing out?

In post 1048, Bulbazak wrote:How is MO def. town? Please, walk me through this.

@MM I'd like the answer to this too.

Jennifer · Post Post #1063 (isolation #27) » Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:34 am

Right now, I would consider voting for MM (going after inactives/easy lynches), Klick (total about face, opportunistic voting).

I also went through KBW's ISO to see what, if anything, could be gleaned from it. Not much there, but he does reference:

In post 73, Keybladewielder wrote:ArcAngel - SCUM AS ALWAYS

Bulbazak - Scummy

In post 189, Keybladewielder wrote:Titan is seeming scummier by the minute

He also voted DGB and TUA at some point.

So the thing I'm mulling over is what this means; if he would ignore all scum buddies or at least mention some of them. I think it's at least worth developing a better read on to try to see. If he did, I think it has to be Titan or DGB because Bulb is strong town to me, and my gut check says TUA is town now, and Arc doesn't seem scummy to me.

Jennifer · Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:06 am

I can support a DGBlynch.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: DGB

Jennifer · Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:04 am

In post 1074, Bulbazak wrote:@Jen: Your TUA link is broken. You might try checking those in preview next time.

Oops, sorry. Here is the (working) link.

Jennifer · Post Post #1156 (isolation #30) » Mon Apr 15, 2013 3:16 am

In post 1122, Ms Marangal wrote:I also couldn't help but realize that people were pegging active members as somewhat scummy because they weren't as activity here doesn't match their activity else where? I can't help but think that it's a weak reason to suspect a person, especially because this is a large game.

^This about face is incredibly scummy.

Contrast the above with:

In post 684, Ms Marangal wrote:Considering that KBW wasn't entirely active even before he stated that he had internet problems, it would have alarmed me if he wasn't inactive else where.

also, using the fact that the Hydra being inactive is different from a solo account being inactive are two different things because a hydra has more heads is kinda stupid because, as a Hydra, you kinda want your partner's input in the game.

So, she infers KBW is scummy for being inactive despite having internet problems, but now states being inactive isn't scummy.. the only rationale for this difference that I can find is that she was bussing KBW to get town cred.

We need to lynch MM at some point, tomorrow if not today.

Jennifer · Post Post #1235 (isolation #31) » Wed Apr 17, 2013 6:57 am

I am so happy MM is a viable wagon today! I feel the most assured of her being scum given the inconsistencies and odd push targets.

VOTE: Ms Marangal[

Jennifer · Post Post #1240 (isolation #32) » Wed Apr 17, 2013 7:41 am

@BB/HD Are you kidding me?

In post 903, Jennifer wrote:I find it interesting that Otterhorse/MM/RachMarie call me scum for changing my vote, yet we don't even know how the flip is going to turn out (or even who will flip!)

In post 1063, Jennifer wrote:Right now, I would consider voting for MM (going after inactives/easy lynches),

Jennifer · Post Post #1252 (isolation #33) » Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:42 am

Ugh... I feel like I'm back in deja vu land.

Regardless, the wagon grew on me for ridiculous reasons / no reason at all. MM was bad and bothered me how she claims I completely misrepped her, yet in the same breath admits that my summary of her case was one of the reasons she voted me. At least one if not more scum had to have been on my wagon given the speed, and I think she is definitely one of them. And even now she's wanting to go after people who are replacing out. Maybe as chance has it scum all decided to replace out, but there haven't been 5 replacements at one time meaning at least some of the scum are here, and she's choosing to ignore that in favor of perceived easier targets.

We need more votes on MM please.

Jennifer · Post Post #1256 (isolation #34) » Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:00 am

In post 1255, Human Destroyer wrote:@Bolded: She claimed you misrepped her in your case then said you were scummy for misrepping her, therefore she's scummy?

No, she's scummy for pushing a bogus case on me and making false statements to try and discredit me. And also for her choice of targets. She reads like she's faking a read on me versus actually believing in it and is sticking to that read to try to appear tunneling townie versus scummy scum.

Jennifer · Post Post #1348 (isolation #35) » Wed Apr 17, 2013 1:19 pm

In post 1258, Ms Marangal wrote:Yeah, and my fast wagon has amazing reason to why it's growing would that mean scum is on my wagon as well?

What? No. Your wagon has -not- grown at the same speed. I very quickly got up to L-1. You've barely gotten half way there and already people are losing interest. That shows me that we're likely right about you. But, hey, way to try to discredit. :/

For people on the TUA train, why? Is it because he was wagoned earlier? I got that same uh-oh feeling when we were close to lynching him last time that I had gotten in my prior games, where I refused to change my read until too late, and I kicked myself. Don't want to repeat that.

Zdenek... you really, really need to not vote someone who hasn't posted in forever and is being replaced. But, MM is ripe for a vote!

Jennifer · Post Post #1394 (isolation #36) » Fri Apr 19, 2013 1:37 am

Given I've already addressed MM's poor reasons for calling me scum earlier, I'll leave it unless people want to rehash how having an account actively posting in the thread (which TUA was) isn't at all like not having an account able to post in thread (which KBW couldn't)... it annoys me greatly that she can't even acknowledge the difference even if she doesn't agree with the philosophy of giving V/LA people a pass. She's trying to shove stuff in to fit the scum slot, and it doesn't fit...

ANYWAY. Given that the deadline is going to be suspended indefinitely until we get replacements, which don't seem forthcoming, I think we really need to buckle down and get a compromise lynch together. I think this will also help us because it will force people to take a stance on whether to be on/off a given lynch train, which will help us out for tomorrow too. Right now our votes are too evenly spread.

Obviously I would prefer MM lynch. Can I get a sense as to how many would go for that?

Jennifer · Post Post #1397 (isolation #37) » Fri Apr 19, 2013 3:40 am

In post 1395, TheUnderachivers wrote:Jennifer may be scum for her shit attack on us and her selectively hunting MO.

GAhhh.. if you go and look we were getting close to deadline, MO wagon had dissipated, and KBW was gone and said he might have to replace out. My vote on you made total sense! Also, there are so many people in this game that I feel like we have to focus it down to get a feel or everybody gets lost in all the shuffling.

I could compromise with a DGB lynch today, but I much prefer MM.

Jennifer · Post Post #1408 (isolation #38) » Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:42 am

I... don't understand what you're doing DGB. Why the reverse psychology? And what is making you so convinced TUA is scum? (Because I don't think they are)

Jennifer · Post Post #1477 (isolation #39) » Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:41 am

DGB is a better lynch than TUA. I'm sad to lose MM lynch though.

VOTE: DGB

STILL NEED ONE MORE VOTE ON DGB OR TUA GETS LYNCHED.

Jennifer · Post Post #1716 (isolation #40) » Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:12 am

Given the flip, DGB is likely town.

I'm not sure what to make of the fact that both Day 1 rival lynches were on scum. It does make me less suspicious of MM though because I can't see why MMscum would give me a hard time about not voting KBW but being okay with voting TUA, when she'd town cred regardless.

The plurality lynches are also making it hard for me, as I don't feel that regular PoE can be applied because there's not the same need to compromise on a lynch choice, so scum can more easily avoid a wagon by just saying "I just felt X was scummier." I feel like we'd be better off from a reads perspective if we forced ourselves to agree on a lynch rather than doing this plurality stuff.

Although I think regular PoE may be a little off, I do think it's probably safe to say that at least one scum was on either KBW's or TUA's train because they would want to get town cred. (Not counting KBW as that wouldn't read for town cred but for self-preservation)

Underachivers - BBMolla (Robocopter), Klick, Human Destroyer, keybladewielder,
keybladewielder - Titan, syryana (TheLurker), RBD (otterhorse), Zdenek (BT), DCLXVI (RachMarie), Bulbazak

On the second lynch, the two largest trains ended up being DGB and TUA.
DrippingGoofball - Titan, DCLXVI (RachMarie), Underachivers, Jennifer, Bulbazak
Underachivers - DrippingGoofball, Human Destroyer, zdenek, BBmolla, Syryana, Metal Overlord

Unless DGB ends up being scum with TUA, I'd expect at least one scum to be on DGB. And probably still at least one scum on TUA for towncred.

I'm not willing to vote Bulb, because he's literally the most town person in this game to me. He's the only one that seemed to get that there was no legitimate case on me before and actually call people out on that.

Of the rest, I want to look more at Titan and Zdenek (Klick is still suspicious to me too, but you all know by now how I feel about voting people who are gone). And I still think that MO is probscum.

I looked at TUA's ISO, and I think RBD is probtown because of this post where TUA was trying to get the KBW wagon aborted:

In post 705, TheUnderachivers wrote:Abort the KBW wagon NOW.

It's town, Otter's scum.

Admittedly, MO might be probtown then too because of

In post 709, TheUnderachivers wrote:This only strengthens it. KBW is town. MO is not. OH is not, either.

but MO still rubs me in a not-town way and it's possible (though WIFOM alert I guess) that he would defend one scum while bussing another, which means one of MO or OH would be scum too.
Here TUA says:

In post 718, TheUnderachivers wrote:And, yeah. Right now, looks like a MO-DGB-Lurker-Jennifer scumteam.

which makes me think that at least one of MO, DGB, or Lurker must be scum (because I'm not and I think TUA would likely try to name one of his buddies to get town cred in case he survived the lynch). As mentioned, DGB seems more probtown to me today which leaves MO or Lurker (syrana)

Summary: Titan, Zdenek, MO, Syrana possibly Klick are the pool I think we'll find the remaining scum from.

Jennifer · Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:42 am

Sorry got slammed with work today, Meant to get into the game over lunch, but the day slipped away from me. Anyway!

@Syrana I've heard of a bus of course, but DGB's push on TUA doesn't feel like it, and I find it unlikely that the two competing wagons two days in a row would all be on scum (unless we rock that much, though sadly I can't take credit it). I don't like the self-vote, and I don't like the giving up, but I have seen town do both before, so in light of everything, I'm willing to call DGB town for the day.

@Antilles You asked what I think of you. You're null-to-town to me. Barring something crazy, I plan to vote from the list of Titan, Zdenek, MO, or Syrana today. And I'm not ready to vote Titan or Zdenek until I get time to do further reading on them, as my suspicions on those two are from earlier in Day 1, and I haven't had a chance to properly vet whether those suspicions still hold merit in light of TUA flip.

I know someone asked me too why I thought Bulb was town (can't find the post) for actually realizing how bad the reasons for being on my wagon earlier were. The wagon on me was so bad and of so little substance, that the fact someone was willing to call it out and get town to stop being apathetic but actually vote based on real reasons created major town points in my book. I know someone will say he was trying to buddy me or something, but if that's what he wanted to could have not defended me as hard as he did (or more to the point, criticize as hard as he did those that voted for bad reasons) and just state he thought I was town and let the mislynch go through.

I still think Bulb is town and I'm not willing to vote him today.

VOTE: Syrana

Jennifer · Post Post #2070 (isolation #42) » Thu Apr 25, 2013 5:13 pm

@Mod & all. Heading out of town shortly through Monday to visit friends so V/LA. Had hoped to wade through the posts today because it looks like we are getting good content, and I want to see how that impacts reads. But failed. (currently am sitting on p 79 and see we are on 83). Will be on phone to keep an eye but won't be able to deepdive likely until back home.

Jennifer · Post Post #2230 (isolation #43) » Tue Apr 30, 2013 4:52 am

Hey, all. I'm back... and wow.

Given the flips I would like to go after someone on MM's wagon, but not Bulb because I still think Bulb is town. The last vote count was:

Ms. Marangal- Antilles, Bulbazak, BBmolla, Rainbowdash

We know Antiless was town, and I still have a good feel on Bulb, so that leaves BBmolla or RBD. BBmolla voted both conftown Antiless and MM at one point after replacing in (and me, but I'm not conf to you), and his ISO doesn't provide a lot of content, he's mostly voting and his lack of words/explanations make him hard to read. RBD on the other hand has been very involved and explaining things, and I'm leaning town on her.

Additional scum suspects are Syrana (still - contrary to Syrana's statement, looking at confscum's scumlists/votes can be helpful in finding scum), Zdenek (MM had a strong scum read on him, and I had earlier concerns with the slot. Worth keeping in mind.), MO (Antilles suspected MO, and I still can't shake the scum feel altogether though I go back and forth). Titan (Arthur now?) maybe, but he's fallen into null territory given the other leads.

Jennifer · Post Post #2232 (isolation #44) » Tue Apr 30, 2013 5:09 am

Oops, meant to vote.

VOTE: BBmolla

@Zdenek No, I am not suggesting that voting for town is inherently scummy. We get it wrong all the time. BUT, it is undeniable that scum want mislynches. And that means, barring a town that is just off the rails, that at least one scum will be voting a townie instead of bussing a buddy. So I think the vote list IS useful in limiting (temporarily at least) the suspect pool and seeing if there is anything else that raises flags.

Jennifer · Post Post #2236 (isolation #45) » Tue Apr 30, 2013 6:57 am

The trains didn't stall... they were interrupted by the modkills. But for the modkills I think likely either Bulb or Syrana would have been lynched instead, but given we did have two flips it seems worthwhile to step back and look at how the new information fits into everything rather than immediately go back to the status quo of a Bulb or Syrana lynch.

There were 5 people being voted at the time:

In post 2184, Voidedmafia wrote:DrippingGoofball - Syryana, Titan
Bulbazak - arcangel, DrippingGoofball, zdenek
Syryana - Human Destroyer, Jennifer, DCLXVI, Metal Overlord
Ms. Marangal- Antilles, Bulbazak, BBmolla, Rainbowdash
Jennifer - Ms. Marangal

I know MM is conf town, so clearly no scum were on my 1-man wagon.
So that leaves wagons on DGB, Bulb, Syrana, and MM. I agree that it's possible the remaining scum were on the other 3 wagons and it was all town on MM, but I think we should definitely take a look at the MM wagon first because MM is the only one of the 4 whose alignment we know for sure. The others it gets into whether we feel the train victim is town/scum, how the interplay would be (bus/defend/mislynch, etc.). It's cleaner when we know one piece of the puzzle. If after vetting everyone on her wagon, we feel that they are all town, then that gives us a good chance by PoE and taking the vetted players' reads more to heart to find the remaining scum.

@Zdenek

In post 2233, Zdenek wrote:What do you think of the fact that both RBD and TUA changed reads on one an other after day one?

I don't know... Looking at the ISO TUA did come out of the gate attacking Otter. I don't have a good enough sense of TUA's players' preferences to know if they'd start bussing a buddy out of the gate or would pick a townie to tunnel. But going through Otter's ISO again, they definitely weren't afraid to offer opinions. If you believe Otter that she no longer found TAM scummy, then it makes sense to turn to a new target. I suppose it's possible that they intentionally changed reads on each other because they're buddies, but it feels like a bit of a stretch to me given Otter's vote on TUA reads genuine to me.

Jennifer · Post Post #2237 (isolation #46) » Tue Apr 30, 2013 6:58 am

What are peoples' takes on BBmolla?

Jennifer · Post Post #2301 (isolation #47) » Wed May 01, 2013 4:43 am

WHAT.....THE..... MO, you have some serious explaining to do.

In post 2283, Voidedmafia wrote:The Deadline is in
11 days
, 10 hours, 24 minutes or by 9:00 PM on May 12th, 2013.

In post 2289, Metal Overlord wrote:I used to be quite a prime candidate for mislynches even as a powerful scumhunter too, I know the feeling lol

In post 2289, Metal Overlord wrote:I'll carry your scumhunting legacy, dont worry(unless your flip is scum, which is unlikely IMO

In post 2289, Metal Overlord wrote:VOTE: Bulbazak

You hammered out of nowhere someone who you think is town with over ELEVEN DAYS left. That hammer reeks of opportunism. ("Whee, there's a wagon on a townie and given that some of the voters are extremely vocal I think I can get away with this and mislynch away, no repercussions!")

If MO isn't on someone's scum list, they should be now. Seriously...

Jennifer · Post Post #2376 (isolation #48) » Fri May 03, 2013 6:01 pm

Prod dodge.. Had last minute trip and couldn't get mafiascum on my phone. Will post this weekend.

Jennifer · Post Post #2430 (isolation #49) » Mon May 06, 2013 7:09 am

Gah, I don't really know what to do. I have been a little suspicious of Syrana, but Bulb said that Syrana was one of his towniest reads, and while he can be wrong, it bothers me that no one has even bothered to review/question those reads even though now we know Bulb was conftown. Plus I don't like that MO is on Syrana's wagon as I think his hammer was scummy as all get out, and there was nothing "refreshing" about it.

But no one else seems that interested in those that are scummier to me like MO and BBMolla which bothers me too because I don't understand why people aren't seeing what I'm seeing (or I guess, more accurately, seeing it in the same way).

But we do have 8 days left, so
VOTE: MO

Come join me! I don't think that recklessness is a town tell. I think scum can be just as reckless. Especially after being emboldened by the double town modkills.

Jennifer · Post Post #2433 (isolation #50) » Mon May 06, 2013 7:54 am

In post 2431, Zdenek wrote:Why was the hammer scummy?

Because MO seemed to know that Bulb would flip town. Not only did he say that he thought Bulb was town, he also said that he empathized because MO had been subject to many a mislynch before too. And, given we had 11 days left before deadline, if MO really was town they should never, ever, ever have hammered someone they thought was town. Especially given that we're operating with plurality lynches; MO didn't have to convince a majority to lynch someone else, but only a smaller number. And they had the time to do it. Instead MO seemed happy to get the mislynch and happy that it wasn't them (scum attitude).

Jennifer · Wed May 08, 2013 10:55 am

In post 2439, Metal Overlord wrote:MS:

Anyone calling me scum or have me as a scum read still at this point of the game should either retire from mafia, or give themselves up as scum.

1. I am a 3rd counter wagon to the 2 scum wagons day 1(Fact)
2.Bulbazak, a town, read me as town(fact)
3.
In post 717, TheUnderachivers wrote:
In post 693, Human Destroyer wrote:end of day distancing at its finest
Except, HD, I don't bus. I don't know how Nero plays as scum (you'd have to ask him), but bussing NEVER works out in my favor, so I don't do it. So I'm delivering an ultimatum.

MO and TUA cannot be scum together.
Pick one, run with it. Who is the scum, who is the town.
(Right from the mouth of scum)

These 3 are enough to make me a 100% town, and should be communally viewed in all the eyes of the town. Read: I get a free pass for the whole game

Jennifer, if you still continue to vote me after these evidence, please get voted out. If you happen to be town, you really need to retire.

For reference:

"MO voted a town read therefore he must be scum!" - Jennifer (Opinion)

LOL

... I need to retire? Wth? You're voting Syrana, who Bulb listed as a strong town read of his (fact). So you're being hypocritical in using Bulb's read as evidence as to why you are town. Not only should you not be voting Bulb's town read, but you should be faulting those who are, but you're not. Also, quoting scum WIFOM does not confirm your towniness.... Only point to consider that you mentioned in the Day 1 wagon, as chances would be that main wagons wouldn't all be on scum. That does cut in favor of you being town, but I'm not sure that chance alone is strong enough in light of all the other bad scum tells you've given off, topped with you trying to goad me into retiring. So my vote stays on you, and I'm not going anywhere.

@Nacho I went and looked at RBD's ISO (not Otter's because I'm getting overwhelmed in trying to do histories with all the different names posting for slots. I think that RBD's vote on Syrana is weird. First RBD says Syrana is too town to lynch, then voted HD, then wants to lynch Syrana because would clear up HD (I'm really not liking people saying they're willing to lynch town reads.. seems anti-town at the very best). Seems inconsistent, and I can't really follow. Currently if I had to vote between Syrana or RBD, I would vote RBD.

@Mew You asked where my cases were on MO and Molla:
Here is MO.
Here is Molla.

I'm also starting to get worried about AA9 because she seems to have stepped away from the game (though I know my posting rate hasn't been stellar either).

Jennifer · Fri May 10, 2013 10:40 am

I'm annoyed that MO seems to be getting away with his 'NYAH NYAH' - he's clearly scum who hopes that by repeating "MO is obvtown MO is obvtown" enough that we'll eventually forget that it's him just trying to grandstand himself and only remember MO in conenction with obvtown. I hate moving my vote from him because I'm pretty sure he's scum, but I also realize that no one wants to join me so I need to compromise.

Originally I was willing to vote RBD over Syrana but RBD's recent responses have read town to me and I also don't like the fact that MO moved his vote there. I know that Bulb had a strong town read on Syrana, which has me a bit concerned, but I think he's wrong (just like he was wrong about MO). Also, RBD's latest posts seems to be more pointed at what to do post-flip whereas Syrana's have been more purely defensive, which makes me feel like RBD is out for the longer term/town.

Voting Syrana now and everyone PLEASE consider a MO lynch tomorrow. I want MO to die!

VOTE: Syrana

L-1

@Mod You have MO voting both Syrana and RBD. MO's last vote changed from Syrana to RBD.

Jennifer · Post Post #2626 (isolation #53) » Mon May 13, 2013 5:55 am

VOTE: MO
Yay, someone else has FINALLY put MO on the list. Let's get that done today!

@BBMolla I voted for the train you were voting over the train MO was voting because I am more convinced of MO scum and I didn't want to be on his same train.
@Nacho I would have loved to lynch MO yesterday, and nothing about the flip yesterday says MO isn't scum. But NOBODY else was on his wagon, and I don't like to waste my vote. At some point, I have to admit that no one is going to follow me and I need to go look for a compromise. So that's what I did. But now DGB has said that she suspects MO, so it's back on.

Jennifer · Mon May 13, 2013 11:38 am

Just promise me if I get lynched first that you then flip MO after. He is scum and no one will listen.

Jennifer · Fri May 17, 2013 11:40 am

I am so sad I missed the boat on the MO lynch. I still don't see why that dissolved so quickly.

VOTE: Nacho

Jennifer · Mon May 20, 2013 10:16 am

Is it bad that I wish scum would come bring night to this game, just for one night? I'm trying to fight against fatigue.

This struck me as really odd:

In post 2774, Nachomamma8 wrote:I will probably never lynch MO, and would be much happier with a
me
lynch as opposed to an MO lynch if it meant that MO could get into the accepted townie zone.

Are you seriously stating that you would rather be the lynch over MO? How can this come from town?
You're stating that you'd rather lynch a conf-town (to you) to protect a prob-town (to you).... that makes no sense whatsoever.

Jennifer · Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:57 pm

Yeah...I definitely am a work in progress in mafia.

I looked at who scum were when I first replaced in, glanced at the short mafia qt once and then delved in. With all the replacements and hydras I started to get confuse as to who was who. I had read that the best way to be scum is to act like town except at night, so I didn't educate myself until I started to get nervous about not being on the previous two scum flips, so I then looked and intentionally but very awkwardly bussed Syr (still sorry about that!)

Funny thing is I joined wanting to be town to practice getting better at being vanilla..and confirmed I like beig town better and still ha e lots to learn in lots of areas!

Still, fun game. Thanks for modding and I enjoyed playing with all of you!