NY 163: Void Mountain of the Nightless Temple (Game Over)

[Metal Overlord]

VOTE: Vote: Human Destroyer

A very interesting Hydra, no? Though tbh, if I was you, I'd probably be voting me to. ~KX

[Metal Overlord]

activity post. recieved rolepm

[Metal Overlord]

Yeah, I meant since, you know, Metal Sonic and all. Anyway, we really need to stop starting the game out like this. Metal should be mainly in charge of the Hydra, I'll post if I see anything important, otherwise, I'm gonna try and focus on my other games.

How can there be any debate about if a Hydra trying to be anonymous should be pressured or not? Unless I missed something, the more information available, the more it helps the village. Also, while I tend to support policy lynches, policy lynching over a self-vote seems kinda . . . meh.

~KX

[Metal Overlord]

Also, obviously it's a huge over-explanation, but isn't an explanation better then nothing, and even if it wasn't, how is it anti-town? Do think the suspicion is pretty damn weak though.

@TheUnderachivers, how exactly does Meta not apply to a Hydra? And as far as I know, the village has more to gain since it gives them a sense of playstyle and conpetancy, while scum doesn't gain that much, the person remains a threat, nothing more and nothing less. If they're a nube, and known to be like that, scum loses the chance to run a vote against them, and if they're compitant, that should be apparent regardless of meta. ~KX

@BT/HD, didn't you read my last post?

[Metal Overlord]

lol wtf can we vote this guy?

[Metal Overlord]

I'm sorry, but scumread, even light, just for a person voting you, and then trying to explain the vote in other terms . . . no, just no. Not sure if stupid or scum at this point.

~KX

P-Edit: oh, yeah, UNVOTE:

[Metal Overlord]

And if that I'm just saying now was shown on another page, then sorry, I skimmed the thread. I didn't intend to make more then one post, so.

VOTE: TheUnderachivers ~KX

P-EDIT: TvT?

P-EDIT2: gdi I never thought I'd say this but I think we need to post less.

[Metal Overlord]

Also, another thing I wanted to add, since even a single player won't play the same in two games (probably) I would think Meta would be better then nothing, and accomplish the point of letting you know something so that the player isn't a blank sheet. Also, with two people in the same Hydra posting without distinction, how the hell is that pro-town? As far as I can tell, all it would do is make getting a read harder and make differences and slips explanable. ~KX

[Metal Overlord]

@AA, just a sense of how somebody plays. If somebody plays noticeable different between scum and village, but you don't know they're that player, it obviously helps them only as scum. Meta is far from the best thing to go off of, but I find knowing it to be preferable to the opposite. It also makes it so you don't have to play with a person for a while to get a sense of how they play.

@Under, what you say is true if the person is town, however, consider if the person were to be scum. In that case, it's much better for the town to be able to read them. If you have two people posting as one person, unseparated, it means that posting style, and possibly even views or opinions could change between the two. As scum, some things that might be done would be disguised by this. If the two people can post exactly the same, and make sure they have completely congruent opinions, then yes, I agree with you, but I don't believe that could be maintained perfectly.

[Metal Overlord]

~KX

[Metal Overlord]

MS:

holy fuck, large games have a shit load of activity :<


I skimmed through these 7 pages

and I'm not liking Underachievers at all

nor am I liking Robo, I mean, how is Apathy a town-tell when you are always Apathetic?

My opinion is that bulbazak's outburst seems pretty town-ish to me. His self-vote is disputable and honestly in my opinion rather useless, but if he believes it grants him some information then I don't think its a problem. He has been rather willing to share this info with us and explaining that he finds BT and Robo clean thanks to his maneuver. Unless he is withholding information on purpose(like that other hydra over there) I don't think it would be nice to capitalise on him.

I believe that we can start out with some policy lynch first then gradually and slowly narrow down the scum. My other head has been more active(I think) thanks to his better timezone (I am nocturnal he is Day xD) and I had a lot to read so I don't have any super strong opinions on who is and who isn't definite lynch targets. Perhaps I could read more into the way the other hydra(forgot his name x.x) who does not like sharing which head posts in order to define him a town or scum read, but until then yea thats all from this other head.

[Metal Overlord]

MS:

I just checked here for activity, and although there have been a good number of posts since my last post, I am disappointed in the lack of quality of them. Keybladewielder WTF?


Not much of thoughts to post, considering I tl;dr'd the long ones and the short ones were full of bullshit.

I advocate a policy lynch, but question is who?

[Metal Overlord]

Really MS, really? Give me a minute or two. ~KX

[Metal Overlord]

Ok, just finished reading the thread over, will move onto ISOs in a second for more accurate reads, but so far Under and Antilles are seeming scummy, though a decent part of that is simply because of the position on anonymous Hydras. This isn't an anonymous game, if it were, I have no problems, however, it isn't, so get with the program. Titan leas scum slightly, but I could easily see them coming back. HD is definitely town, could just be since I got him lynched ftl in my last game, but I doubt it. BT, Robo, and AA also seem to be town, but I'd like to see more from the latter and Klick. I believe everybody else reads neutral, or at least I didn't notice anything in particular, including with TAM. From what I understand, it's a playstyle, and while unlikely, it is possible to just not have opinions. Perhaps the ISO will say differently?

@Mod, I unvoted HD long, long ago, and changed to Under.

I am strongly in favor of Policy lynches. To me, if you have the time for it, a policy lynch should be a way to hit the people who are hard to read, and who you wouldn't be able to tell normally. You eliminate them, provided nobody else seems to be scum more then them, on the off chance that they are scum. However, in this game, outside of Key, TAM, or Antilles, I don't see any options, and aside from Key, I don't think any options are really good.

Also, on a final note, LOL at my other head complaining about quality. You're not one to talk, shush.

[Metal Overlord]

I assume the unvote in 107 didn't count either then? Fine.

UNVOTE:

For now, will have an updated vote after ISOs. Happy now? Also, nice response time.

[Metal Overlord]

Antilles

: Wow, post more, like, a lot more, and claim pl0x. I mean, I suppose the few posts you have aren't that bad, but the style seems that of a person who'd talk a lot more. Also, I really dislike the part about you not claiming heads. Scum lean for now.

ArcAngle

: Still seems town as before. They make sense (lol), they pulled the thing with Under off very well, and their points/questions are decent. Once again, some more content would be nice, but I'm saying Town.

BT

: Decently active, and they have a couple of good posts, so my town read remains. One thing I'd like to ask though is how their process of thought regarding Bulbazak went, but otherwise looks pretty good, I'd say Town.

Bulbazak

: I'm going to be going with a Town read for Bulba here. I found the self vote to be pretty much a null read, and everything else they've done suggests town. They seem to have made good use of the self vote to get information, something which I doubt would have been done if they were scum and faking it to avoid a vote. Also, they took the suspicion in stride, another point towards town.

HD

: Town. Nothing more to say here.

Keybladewielder

: I think I said this already, but really not much to go on, but what there is is pretty bad. Can't tell if just an extremely bad player or scum, would make a good policy lynch.

Klick

: I kinda dislike how twice you mention the same thing with no change it two posts, and that combined with low activity in general, but for the small amount of posts you point out some decent stuff, and this is pretty congruent with how you played in our last game. So Leans Town for now, but post more, alright?

Ms Marangal

: Despite saying quite a bit, I'm really not feelings much from them. What they've said is pretty bland, and seems kinda limited in content, with nothing else giving me a particular feeling towards them. I think I'd have to read them as Neutral for now.

OttarHorse

: I agree with them on most everything they've said. However, that alone isn't reason to read them town, and considering that what they've said, while not limited to, is mainly about a few particular subjects, I think they could do better. However, I don't see anything particularly pointing towards the contrary, so I'll say Leans Town.

RachMarie

: Apparently they're scummy, but I'm not really seeing such. I'm afraid there's really not much to comment on, as I don't gain anything in particular from the majority of their comments. So, I suppose I'll go with a Neutral read for now, but I'd like to see more, as I get a feeling they're town.

Reek

Unless I somehow missed it, they've done literally nothing but say that self-voting has no town value, implied RVS is important, and said Bulbazak should be policy lynched. Since I disagree with those things, and because of shear lack of quantity, Leans Scum.

Robocopter87

: They haven't really said anything of value, and I disagree with just about everything they've said concerning how the game should be played (which, really, is all they've said with the exception, I believe, of one vote.) For some reason I want to call them Town, however, I have to say based on fact alone, they Lean Scum.

SerraPaladin

: While individually his post all look pretty good, and I certainly understand what he says, one specific thing that strikes me is a remark made about that there are things to comment on, following by a relative lack of commenting on things. Also, limited talk about other payers, and limited posts in general, are off-putting. In light of recent posts, the lack of content seems even more noticeable. So Leans Scum.

TheActingMethod

: I maintain what was said about them, that they don't ring particularly scummy. More content would, as always, be appreciated, or even a little relevant content if nothing else. Especially if this is a meta thing, and not a tell, I'd like to know if it changes. If so, perhaps pursue better options until that time? So, in light of Meta, I'd say Neutral, though consider for Policy Lynch if it isn't something which changes.

TheUnderachievers

: I don't think I like a single post that they've made. I dislike their positions on issues, and find them anti-town at best. It seems like the majority of their posts are worthless, or dealing with hydra, and those that aren't I dislike the content of. Really, if they're competent, I have to say they're scum, and if they aren't, well, why keep them around? I think they could redeem themselves, but it's unlikely. Plus, the whole deal I've already expressed my opinions on . . . yeah Scum.

Titan

: I am really disliking them, simply due to quality and style. I assume that the cerulean post was by them? All the same, reading over, I strongly dislike that lack of anything productive starting out, and as it goes on, while there is quite a bit, reading it over, I still find it as though I'm lacking anything detailed about their thoughts. Despite a lot being present, a paragraph long answers in many cases, I feel as though I don't understand they why. Regarding the wall, I did read it, but I left feeling genuinely meh about the content. Perhaps it thing could be simplified? Leans Scum.

This probably would have looked better if I had done it immediately after the last post, but hey, it's my first day of spring break, and I did other stuff, I regret nothing.
@Bulbazak, anything else you'd like to add, or you done? Nothing? Alright, thanks, tell me if there is.
@HD:

MS why are you so bad at this game

Don't ask me, ask him. I have no clue, however, it's true, hence the statement in my first post.

This is an "omg I'm contenting" post without any real content

Um, actually, the point of the post was to say one night MS approached me and said "Hey, wanna Hydra in this game" and I said yes, provided I don't have to do much. So it's my way of telling everybody else I don't plan on doing much of anything. So the whole point was to say I won't be making any real content. However, following a Sub, a Death, and the lull of inactivity, I now have nothing better to do.
Everything else is so goddamn ignorant I don't regret lynching him as town last game, despite it losing me the game. Also, you said MS was better then me. Those are words to kill over, just saying.

Fucking Hell despite him being my biggest scumread, I really want to vote HD just cause. Instead, I think I'll have to

VOTE: Reek

Ordinarily I'd vote The Underachievers once more, but I feel it won't do much of anything now, Key is AFK, so we need to decide if we policy lynch or not, TAM has enough votes on them iirc, and eliminating those options, I think this vote does the most.

P-EDIT: LOL 20 posts between when I started making this post and the thread now.

[Metal Overlord]

Mod, delete the second one, they're identical etc?

Also, as stated, I really don't plan on doing much this game, so hopefully this'll be enough to keep you from lynching MS? Thanks, and bye.

[Metal Overlord]

Gender is overrated online, and as you wish RM. Also, for those without reading comprehension, I, KX, made that last post.

[Metal Overlord]

MS:

@HD

My post was not solely, 1 town read, it was 1 town read + 2 scum reads. I quoted Ms Marangal's post because I agreed with what she said which I quoted: Shit load of activity, Dont like UA, and dont like Robo.


Now stuff I would like to add on:
Antilles and OtterHorse should do better, I believe his is a bad town but if he doesn't step it up we may need to find him scum/policy lynch(see what I am proposing?)

Keybladewielder is also a good candidate for a policy lynch. (He plays worse than me when I play bad! LOL)

I don't feel that Rachmarie is particularly scummy. Put her off fer later. Town-ish for the moment.


Null read on Titan. Sounds good yet bad at the same time. Will put off for later.


The rest of the people are kinda straightforward I guess. HD and BT are most likely town blah blah

[Metal Overlord]

All of MO's reads are based off of playstyle and not scumtells. It feels manufactured. It looks as if its only purpose is to placate town. Also, those reads do not match his previous post of reads on which I originally questioned him about.

Well obviously it was manufactured, the whole point of it was to keep MS here from being lynched. Also, the question is, based on the reads, what do you assume my alignment is? As for them differing from the original light reads:

Ok, just finished reading the thread over, will move onto ISOs in a second for more accurate reads

The first was just generally looking over the thread, and what I preliminarily got from those; The point was not to find scum, it was to see how things looked and if anything in particular stuck out. Then I moved on to ISOs, balancing with the context I would have obtained from the thread.

First, says 3 people are scummy. 2 because they support hydra anonymity (translation: Policy Lynch), and Titan for magical reasons. He then ends it with 10 nulls. Seriously, you don't have any opinion on over half the players in the game?! He then says that not having an opinion is okay in a game about thoughts and opinions. And finally, he concludes that policy lynches are the way to go and we should PL the crap out of this game.

Yeah...this guy's scum.

Unvote

Vote Metal Overlord

I don't know about you, but I see absolutely zero question. You have one question mark, but no questions. And, in case you missed it, I didn't say I had null reads, I said people read neutral. It's an important distinction considering I specifically said I planned on posting farther. Also, the post wasn't made to "answer your questions" they were made since the original part was incomplete, and didn't fully accomplish what I wished. You say that my reads seem based more on playstyle then scumslips. I'm sorry, but how does that make them any less valid, at least when I consider content and content quality as part of playstyle? Also, I happened to see any scumslips that could be called such, I believe I pointed them out. On the subject of changing reads, with the exception of Robo, I think my reads actually remained congruent throughout. Forgive me for not making my posts so manufactured that I went back to make sure they matched with all previous ones. As for the neutral reads, sorry if that wasn't made clear, that was for people who nothing specific stood out about upon a brief read through, so effectively consider no reads at all there. Check the second post for actual neutral reads. ~KX

[Metal Overlord]

@BT

Thank you for proving again that you're self aware. I also like how you think Ant is scummy yet in the former post you didn't want to PL him.

Yeah, remind me, were do I say that I don't want to policy lynch him? In fact, iirc, he's been listed as a possible PL by both heads. And on that, if I've gotten this correctly, Ant is supposed to be pretty competent, so wouldn't lack of activity be ground for a regular lynch and not a policy lynch? Well, whatever it is, I don't see a problem with lynching them, though it seems like more posts from them could make it better.

Even if you'd said it right (with townread over scumread, is what you meant obviously) this part is dumb as hell and is probably from scum putting *whatever* into their posts just because.

Thanks for not being a total ass and making something of the mistype. If it's any meta knowledge, me and HD came here from the same site, so know each other somewhat well. Also, isn't this total WIFOM? Anything that leads you to your conclusion, or just gut?

Have I said before that this protection of your slot is really bad? (different from the mastin/nero thing too because he was talking about himself? didn't read that bad too. this on the other hand...)

Forgive my ignorance, but were do I say this is meant to be protection? Unless I missed it, it was just me saying that I hadn't planned on playing this game. Also, if you dislike my writing style, well, I'll actually agree with you there. If you mean because of the content, then how so?

Also, you say you're not impressed with the defense, how so?
As for voting me, I'm curious, what do you hope to gain from it? Actual lynch, in which case how to you justify this slot, which has at least given something to go off of, over ones which have done nothing or next to nothing? And if it's simply for pressure, well, k, gl with that.

[Metal Overlord]

Oh, yeah, sorry that I didn't mention, this is indeed KX. With regards towards HD, did you even read some of what it said? There was no way to respond to it at all.

Where you basically direct the PL. Makes everything worse when you direct it at the nonexistent dude over two common scumreads with no explanation whatsoever.

By the way, we don't know how competent Ant's slot is. They won't say who they are.

I don't know why I have to keep saying this, but a full reads post was meant to come immediately after that post, so the reads would have explanations. As for directing the PL, were exactly to you get the idea that I have any authority here, or even honestly care who is lynched at all?

Nah, being all "I'm townreading this dude but I really want to vote him anyway" has 0 benefit for town because it just opens options / acts as a derailer, which means it's more likely to come from scum, like I said.

I won't try to claim it was meant to be completely serious, but I will be honest, considering some of his reasons, I really do/did want to vote him.

I think you're using MS's existence as an excuse to overdefend your slot. Not to mention it's an attempt at making people go easy on you, but yeah. It reads like, well, a defense, where a pure defense is expected to come from scum. You prioritize making your slot look better / keeping MS from being lynched over scumhunting. In #412, just like in your reply to me right now, it's important for you to relieve all suspicion from your slot by correcting every little detail possible and without confronting people that much.

Congratulations, you've got this part completely correct, with the exception of that last part. These posts have been defenses (exception: reads). My goal is to prove that this slot is not scum. To do this, I point out the people I believe to be scum, or at least keep this slot alive until the point comes when those reads can be reasonably assumed not to have been from a scum. And I only correct small details were those details are being somehow misrepresented or misunderstood. As for confronting people, how have these defenses not been confronting people? Admittedly, it does make it a little harder that the people attacking me are my town reads, but hey, I'm doing what I can.

Are you hopeful that I'm only trying to pressure you? That's cringe-worthy. I think you're scum and you're reading the justification.

Honestly, no, at this point pressuring seems kinda stupid, two votes and I'm active etc. However, compared to other options, I think my lynch would be really dumb, and so trying to figure out why you're seriously going for it.

Basically how do you feel about HD finding you scummy if you two know eachother? You're KX, right? It's kind of funny that you barely replied to HD's post that called out all of your posts but it's so important for you to address everything Bulb and I say.

I find it highly annoying, at least for the reasons he has, and (though I can't prove it) since I actually am town. I barely addressed HD because what he was saying isn't exactly something I could respond to. Honestly, just look his post towards me over and see if you could respond with anything productive. Compared to you and bulb, I believed I could do something.

Looking all these questions over, I believe there are two points I should address. The first is the reads post compared to the post before it. The reason the first post sucks so much is because the full reads post was meant to come directly after it, as a part of it. However, as I was making the post, I got distracted by the internet, and ended up not finishing it until much later. The second is my role in the game. I didn't, and never have intended to play a highly active role in scumhunting this game. As mentioned, MS just randomly asked me one night, so I decided to go along with it. I'll defend as best I can, state opinions, and if I see something extremely scummy or something that's been missed by everybody else, I'll do what I can with it. If you want to policy lynch over that, fine, but at least call it that. In future accusations, please factor these two things in. Also, on defending being something scummy, maybe it it, but as it's not something which specifically hurts town, I don't see why a townie can't do it, and as such I do it.

@Mod, delete above post

[Metal Overlord]

Also, @Robo most of your post are bashing Ottar, so how do you get a town read on them? Also, Arc has voted two other members of your "scum team," and a number of the others have been inactive or said very little, so yeah, did you get that by just picking your two scum and three null reads?

[Metal Overlord]

Sorry MS, but Cool Story Bros. Lynch me. I want you all to know what it's like to be wrong. GL mafia, but with this lot, you have nothing to fear.

[Metal Overlord]

MS: Hi Jennifer! Good luck with the game! It's only 20 pages so you could catch up real quick^.^


I see that my other head has created some... controversy and seems to have trouble appeasing the accusations from... this head's townreads.

I will try.

@BT Regarding #425, I honestly had trouble finding out what the problem was. In fact my eyes went from o.o to o.O(some arguments do not make sense)

"Nah, being all "I'm townreading this dude but I really want to vote him anyway" has 0 benefit for town because it just opens options / acts as a derailer, which means it's more likely to come from scum, like I said." I honestly do hope that you understand that KX was trolling. HD is obviously a townread, Kx and HD and me have been friends for a long time(them more than me), and a joke or two... is quite normal.

and I don't really find these accusations indicative of scum ,maybe you could explain? Bad play =/= Scum
"I think you're using MS's existence as an excuse to overdefend your slot. Not to mention it's an attempt at making people go easy on you, but yeah."

"Are you hopeful that I'm only trying to pressure you? That's cringe-worthy. I think you're scum and you're reading the justification."

Yeah those were... weird. Sorry but I have no idea how to respond to them. But for Bulbazak, since his style is rather similar to mine, I guess I can respond to him.

#447

"So...not for scumhunting. Gotcha. Also, you were in no danger of being lynched. Explanation rejected." Yeah I didn't think I was in danger of being lynched either, but KX talked to me on the chat and said that "if he didnt post the reads I would have been lynched". So I guess that KX genuinely felt that he was in danger of being lynched(wagons build up fast) and therefore posted the "peacemaker" reads. *shrugs*

"Your reads list was not to find scum... Fascinating..." lol

"Except if you had read through the thread, you would have gotten all the context you needed. Thus, those reads should have been all that was needed. Fact of the matter is, you went about it backwards. ISOs are nice, because they give you a bit of overview on a person's actions without reading through the thread. They're good time-wise for getting quick reads or going over your reads. However, if you want the best reads possible, you go through the entire thread, because then you get everything in context. However, you're claiming to have done the opposite: looking at context for preliminary reads and then without to finalize. Like I said, backwards. Sounds like someone got caught." Sounds like noobtown instead of scum to me. I mean, lazy towns probably won't bother to go through the entire thread just to "get everything in context" I probably wouldn't either. Caught for laziness? Yeah. Caught for Scum? Not necessarily.

"And what's your point?" lol

"No there isn't, unless you're saying that we have a neutral party in the game, which is impossible given the setup. Therefore, null and neutral mean the exact same thing." Bulbazak is right. There are only 2 scum factions in this game; they are either scum, not scum or unknown. Neutral = notsure = unknown = null. But despite this, I fail to see how this is a scumtell.

"Sounds like town pacification to me." lol

"Not scumslips. Scumtells. Two different things. Scumtells are what we use to hunt scum and are the basis of our reads. Yet, you never judged anyone's alignment base on scumtells of any kind. It was entirely based off of playstyle, which makes it read fake.

Can we please lynch this guy now?" Well, for starters you're going to need more evidence than that. I agree that most of your points here are true and accurate, but the problem here is that they aren't scumtells. Not at all. I have seen a majority of (bad) town players guilty of such things, one or another, and once again I repeat that bad play =/= scum. Bad play are grounds for a policy lynch, but you are incorrect that there is mounting evidence and scumtells to lynch me and my other head.


Once again I support you for your attempt at the self-vote and I support you for the useful reads and finger pointing you have done for the town.

I hope we can work together for the town. We would make a great scumhunter team. There are no night kills so I believe it is safe to play my best without fear of sniped in the night.

[Metal Overlord]

^When I said lol I meant that I agree with his point.

Just some clarification

[Metal Overlord]

MS:

I wrote a really long tl;dr post and nobody replied T^T

[Metal Overlord]

VOTE: MO

MO is still coming across scummy to me and has 2 votes on him, meaning might be a viable lynch for today.

If I have to will vote TAM to secure a lynch (though given Voided's policy of plurality voting looks like wouldn't be needed)

Reason is I would rather vote someone who is still in the game, because means their scumminess is more likely because they really are scum and not because they no longer want to play.

MS:
Is that it? bulb and BT havent even replied to my longpost yet .____.

could you like, vote later after we receive a response I am getting long-post-no-reply syndrome

[Metal Overlord]

MS:

Hi pls remove the votes on me pls else I will get lynched


VOTE: TUA

save my ass pls ty 12 hours and a poor townie will get lynched

considering none of you responded to my longpost yet its not really fair to vote me

[Metal Overlord]

you mean your long list of reads that looks manufactured?

no i mean my long reply to bulbazak


since its almost deadline and i think i'm gonna be lynched(KX was right! fuk u HD)


On behalf of KX:
....................../´¯/)
....................,/¯../
.................../..../
............./´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸
........../'/.../..../......./¨¯\
........('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...')
.........\.................'...../
..........''...\.......... _.·´
............\..............(
..............\.............\...




And for myself

....................../´¯/)
....................,/¯../
.................../..../
............./´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸
........../'/.../..../......./¨¯\
........('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...')
.........\.................'...../
..........''...\.......... _.·´
............\..............(
..............\.............\...

[Metal Overlord]

MS: If somebody could take their vote off me so I don't get magically lynched when the deadline "unsuspends" that would be great D:

Stop pointing that knife at my head!

[Metal Overlord]

MS: Placeholder, will post my thoughts after my dinner

[Metal Overlord]

whoa shit LOL

woops >.<

Anyway lets get back to business

TUA's #577:
My agenda was clear for all lol. I was voting the next largest wagon at that point in time to save my sorry ass because Deadline was almost approaching and I wanted to do what I could to prevent a removal of a (in my eyes) definite town. My agenda was not hidden anybody with have a brain could see that.

In fact, your reflex reaction vote back on me was also a form of self preservation, so don't you dare call shit out on me for that pathetic reason. By your logic you would have been scum too.


#593 I lol'd

And there we go, finally a viable policy lynch target. Despite me, I am in favor of policy lynching day 1 and/or 2 to rid the most detrimental-to-town/noob players from the game, on the off chance that we hit scum, and at the very worst remove an obscenely bad player anyway -- not a person we would want in LYLO. Basically a Policy lynch is a town-mutually-agreed upon OMGUS .

VOTE: keybladewielder

#640
bubazak took 123 pages to reply my post ;-; Well you were sick so I forgive you.

Based on my meta of KX I'm not sure if he genuinely read the whole thread or not, he has been known to do that but I certainly wouldn't(lol) I understand that what you're saying is that ISOs are meant to scrutinise a player's posts only and not to read anything else from the thread. Well honestly I don't have too much of a comment on this because I... don't engage in such technobabble, but I believe it is not likely for an experienced mafia player, town or scum, to trip about game mechanics like that, and all the more he should scrutinise his own posts for mistakes before posting if Kx were scum.

also yeah I see where you're coming from with the Titan's post. I don't engage in semantics, too superficial, but if someone wishes to challenge me to a game of one I would kindly accept.



Yeah thats about all from 24-27 I guess. Looking forward to more replies!

[Metal Overlord]

also guys hold your hammers, I accidentally put him at L-1



actually UNVOTE:

Will hammer later, make use of the time

[Metal Overlord]

MS:
@Bulbazak, 557:

It was unfortunate that the people on the wagon on me at that time were my town reads: BT, You and Jennifer(albeit of a null read at that point). It was not possible to garner information at that point with such little people on my wagon(4 people were on the majority which only 24 hours hours left on the deadline; that's half of the majority needed to lynch!) What was I supposed to do, call you and BT scum? I wanted to delay the lynch as long as possible until most players have read my (painstakingly) written #447, which unfortunately you denounced as "scummy", before judging and making the decision to lynch me afterwards. The fact of the matter was that I believed there was little grounds to my lynch, with only 4/9 voters needed for the majority, and most of my defense had not even been read; what else could I say but "Don't lynch me"?

@Drippinggoofball I'm sure he did a half-assed job. 1 minute per page. lol



Regarding the "reads", although I cannot deny the ones which was posted were manufactured and not really done with the sole intention of helping the town, do note that there are two heads in this hydra, with two different playstyles, and I appeal to you to create a solid read holistically by combining the reads of both heads together, and not just tunneling on a single "scumtell" from one head of what could have been a playstyle quirk.


Question for you, bulbazak. Why would you think that I would want to buddy up to you, of all players in this game? I do not deny the "buddying", and in fact I'm glad you noticed it, but there's no scum motivation if I wanted to buddy you for malicious reasons.


Also, agree with MM's #669

[Metal Overlord]

TUA's #666 is bad; it may not necessarily be scummy, but it is a bad post. just sayin

[Metal Overlord]

MS: What on Earth is all this? In the span of 24 hours the TUA slot racks up >15 posts

amazing!

And 93% of it is bullshit!

[Metal Overlord]

Not necessarily. If TUA flips scum we may question Arcangel under procedure, but don't jump to flimsy conclusions

[Metal Overlord]

Care to explain how that works?

[Metal Overlord]

Hey guys

Since you seem to be too wimpy to lynch anybody, just lynch me and put me out of my misery.

I'm a vanilla townie.

VOTE: DGB

Boo hoo hoo

I want to give Mastin-hydra a little more time

And you know Mastin-hydra will disappear and lurk again and you'll lose focus, spin on your own heels and lynch a townie.

Let that townie be me and let's do it quickly.

MS:

WTF is this post.... its a really bad post...



@ Bulbazak

"Yeah, I may have been wrong when I said the entire post was scummy. However, the entire point of that post was to pacify me and dismiss the scumtells I identified, without ever addressing them. So while the post may have been well reasoned and not scummy in and of itself, it's purpose was scummy in that it was to deflect focus away from the previous posts, which were scummy."

The previous posts were written by KX, which were scummy(in your opinion, nothing is objective here). The post that I had written, was not scummy by itself, but according to the context it is scummy. So basically anything I write to defend myself against the "scummy" posts is a scum post? What do you suggest I do then? Do nothing and let everybody focus on the "scummy" posts?

"So now I shouldn't think you're scum, because you're a hydra?"

No, what I meant to say was, you should only think I'm scum when you have garnered enough *consistent* evidence on both heads to determine that my slot is scum. For now, you have no definite proof against *me*; your main argument being that my "well-written" post was scummy because it was meant to defend my partner's posts; inextricably linking your scum reads just on my partner alone and through minimal fault of mine. For argument's sake, let's say you indeed have proof and find that my partner is "scummy", but the thing is, it could just be his playstyle you simply just disagree with. Unless you pick up a definite, independent scumtell from my very own posts(my partner's scum posts not withstanding), I believe you do not have enough evidence to judge my slot as scum.


"As you said, you felt we had similar posting styles, and that you could therefore reason with me, or in this case, talk me down. I was essentially the main proponent of your wagon. By buddying up to me, you were trying to diffuse your wagon without having to deal with the case being presented. It was self preservation, plain and simple."

You are good. The only problem which I see in the statement was that you have read my post a bit too late; but by the time you have read it my votecount had decreased from 5 to 3; independent of your reads. How do you explain that?

[Metal Overlord]

Note a TUA/Bulbazak or MO/DGB buddying

[Metal Overlord]

first and foremost TUA is very irritating

Since we have dragged our time to the last day, VOTE: TUA

Replying to accusations in the next post

[Metal Overlord]

Page 34:

The previous posts were written by KX, which were scummy(in your opinion, nothing is objective here). The post that I had written, was not scummy by itself, but according to the context it is scummy. So basically anything I write to defend myself against the "scummy" posts is a scum post? What do you suggest I do then? Do nothing and let everybody focus on the "scummy" posts?

The way you defended yourself was scummy. At no point do you try to discuss the points or the merits of the case, instead, you try to diffuse the situation and deflect attention away from the case by saying that you cannot be held responsible for your partner's scum posting, which is so antithetical to the game it's not funny.

I am not sure if you are misinterpreting me or are doing this on purpose. Taken out of context, my post would have been a well-written post with good reasoning and would have been a town tell, as you have said yourself.I want you, to find a scumtell in my posts, which can still be held under suspicion even when isolated from the case itself, before you can call me a definite scum. "Circumstantial Evidence" in this case is not enough. If we were not sharing the same slot, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you would have called me town in that case. So once again find more solid evidence.

So now I shouldn't think you're scum, because you're a hydra?

No, what I meant to say was, you should only think I'm scum when you have garnered enough *consistent* evidence on both heads to determine that my slot is scum. For now, you have no definite proof against *me*; your main argument being that my "well-written" post was scummy because it was meant to defend my partner's posts; inextricably linking your scum reads just on my partner alone and through minimal fault of mine. For argument's sake, let's say you indeed have proof and find that my partner is "scummy", but the thing is, it could just be his playstyle you simply just disagree with. Unless you pick up a definite, independent scumtell from my very own posts(my partner's scum posts not withstanding), I believe you do not have enough evidence to judge my slot as scum.

Except your partner committed several definite scumtells that could not be excused by playstyle. Those types of scumtells I would have zeroed in on no matter who committed them. Trying to excuse scum play by saying it's a playstyle is bad and is a no defense defense. Furthermore, your defense of his play was scummy, because it was meant to deflect attention away from the scumtells instead of actually addressing them. Essentially, you didn't want to discuss the actual validity of the case, but dismiss it instead. This is a huge scumtell for me. Finally, you tried to buddy up to me as a way to get me to disregard my case. Buddying IS a scumtell. So don't say that your hydra can't be held responsible for the scum posting from one of its members, because that in and of itself is a relativist fallacy and is scummy.

Except that "Scumtells" as defined by you are not set in stone. They are not like math or black-and-white, a town player can exhibit many "scumtells" which you have in your book but the slot happens to be town. If you have played enough games, you would have seen this phenomenon before. Simply, either the player sucks or has a playstyle that

disagrees with you

. Assuming that each player in a game is at a decent skill level, no player's playstyle is "bad", but whether they agree, disagree or is neutral with you. If they agree with you, it is a town tell, and if they don't you may see certain "scum tells". Once again I believe in the reality that you simply disagree with my partner's playstyle, so unless you can find evidence against me = both of us, you can't call us definite scum slot. Yes I was buddying with you, I'm glad you saw that.

As you said, you felt we had similar posting styles, and that you could therefore reason with me, or in this case, talk me down. I was essentially the main proponent of your wagon. By buddying up to me, you were trying to diffuse your wagon without having to deal with the case being presented. It was self preservation, plain and simple.

You are good. The only problem which I see in the statement was that you have read my post a bit too late; but by the time you have read it my votecount had decreased from 5 to 3; independent of your reads. How do you explain that?

How does my reading the post too late invalidate my point or the fact that you buddied up to me? Me being late and a change in the vote count doesn't magically change your motives in the past. Seriously, what is this crap?

It invalidates it because I was able to get the lynch off me regardless of my buddying of you or not. That said, it means that my buddying with you had little or nothing to do with the case at hand(getting the lynch off me). Why do I need to buddy up to you just to remove 1 vote from my lynch when I have successfully done so by removing 3 from mine independent of your reaction? The fact is I buddied up to you, correct. But wrong answer, the motive was not to get you off my lynch.

Note a TUA/Bulbazak or MO/DGB buddying

What is this? Having trouble buddying up to me so you switch tactics? First, I have no need to buddy up with UA, because I could care less what he thinks. I simply noticed in my catch up that he was posting incredibly town. The fact that we have similar reads was an afterthought. Second, even if I was scum, buddying up to UA would be the dumbest thing ever. He's not exactly obv. town, and there's no real reason I'd want him on my side. In fact, buddying up to them as scum would only serve to get me lynched.

And you claim that DGB is buddying up to me?

I'm going to make this real clear so you don't misunderstand me: Having similar reads as someone or a town read on that person DOES NOT EQUAL BUDDYING! Although, you saying that I'm buddying up to them shows me that you KNOW they're town. It definitely helps my scumread of you.

Therefore the argument that DGB is attempting to buddy up to me as you have accused is as moot as you buddying up to TUA. Unless you can argue otherwise.

Yay! I'm all caught up and stuff. I have a few more things I want to check up on, but I like my vote where it is.

[Metal Overlord]

P-Edit: The above posts were by Metal Sonic. Kx ragequitted and shit I'll see if I can get him back by the flip.

[Metal Overlord]

UNVOTE: TUA
VOTE: MO

I like TUA's staying in fighting against the lynch.

I would almost be fine quick lynching Jen if thats an option. While TUA is best avaiable lynch, Jen might almost be at the point where she is passing Antilles for scummiest.

Do explain.

Except that "Scumtells" as defined by you are not set in stone. They are not like math or black-and-white, a town player can exhibit many "scumtells" which you have in your book but the slot happens to be town. If you have played enough games, you would have seen this phenomenon before. Simply, either the player sucks or has a playstyle that

disagrees with you

. Assuming that each player in a game is at a decent skill level, no player's playstyle is "bad", but whether they agree, disagree or is neutral with you. If they agree with you, it is a town tell, and if they don't you may see certain "scum tells". Once again I believe in the reality that you simply disagree with my partner's playstyle, so unless you can find evidence against me = both of us, you can't call us definite scum slot. Yes I was buddying with you, I'm glad you saw that.

No that is not how I define "scumtells", and I would appreciate you not putting words in my mouth. I rely on the same scumtells game after game, and they serve me quite well. As such, manufacturing of reads (ie. non-genuine reads) is a scumtell. Lying is a scumtell (I caught KX doing this with the read order thing. It was backward, which means that it was false, which means he was lying.). Doing something for the sole purpose of pacifying town is a scumtell. Trying to deflect the case against you, rather than confronting it, is a scumtell. Attempts to discredit a person or their case is a scumtell. Buddying is a scumtell. Need I go on?

My profound apologies, I have genuinely worded my point wrongly. What I meant to say was that "Scumtells are not set in stone, the book of scumtells that you have is not kept by all; it is not standard." I hope this clarifies. I'm glad you put your "scumtells" all on the table for all to see, but my playstyle argument still stands. Evidence: Ms Marangal testified to display such "scumtells" in your list, even as town. Once again, A town player can exhibit the scum tells in your book due to playstyle, simply because your "scumtells" are not standard.

And saying that you are not responsible for all that your slot does is ludicrous. The alignment of your slot does not magically change simply because there are 2 people playing instead of 1. The fact of the matter is that your partner was scummy and was caught. Tough luck. And maybe I backed down a little off the scumminess of your early posts because of how well-written they were. But in the end, posts are judged by the content therein, not by how pretty they are, and once I get past that, your posts are still pretty scummy.

Actually, I never said that. Seriously, when did I say that? What I said was that you could be seeing scumtells on my partner just because you disagree with his playstyle. In order to make sure you have determined the alignment of my slot, both heads must be seen as scum, separately, then you can confirm that the slot is or is not town. Do you deny that you have mislynched a villager once or more before just because he was exhibiting "scumtells" but wasn't actually scum? That is what I mean. The fact that there are two heads here only serves as a double-check. And as I can see your only "scumtell" on me is correlated to my partner; no I am not shirking responsibility, but it is very obvious that your view of alignment of me is prejudiced and tainted because of the linkage with him. Your argument is "Your partner is scummy and you are defending him poorly therefore you must be scum as well!" which is a fallacy, and the correct way it should be is "Your partner is scummy, you are scummy, the slot is scum". I am arguing that you are against my partner and therefore my slot just because you have issues with his playstyle, and unless you can show independent evidence against me that rules out any possibility of playstyle quirks being part of the equation, you cannot indict me as scum. This is not the issue of shirking responsibility, it is the issue of you having tainted views which always have the possibility to be wrong and then imposing them on others.

And I have several town reads that don't agree with me, Titan and Klick being two right off the top of my head.

I meant playstyle agreement, not points or argument agreement. Just to clarify. In fact, if you could refer to Titian's earlier posts, he stressed that KX seems scummy while I seem towny, therefore undecided on my alignment. I urge you to do the same, and not "KX is scummy therefore the slot is scum"

It invalidates it because I was able to get the lynch off me regardless of my buddying of you or not. That said, it means that my buddying with you had little or nothing to do with the case at hand(getting the lynch off me). Why do I need to buddy up to you just to remove 1 vote from my lynch when I have successfully done so by removing 3 from mine independent of your reaction? The fact is I buddied up to you, correct. But wrong answer, the motive was not to get you off my lynch.

That logic is so backwards it hurts. That's the equivalent of saying you didn't beat up someone 3 days ago because you lost your hands NOW. Your actions do not magically change because I didn't comment on those actions until long after they were committed. You buddied up to me to diffuse a wagon and get me on your side. Just because the wagon had diffused when I finally got around to addressing you does not mean that you didn't commit those actions for those reasons.

I disagree. I believe that it is the equivalent of saying I didn't beat up someone 3 days ago for the intent of murder, but instead for the intent to "teach him a lesson", even though he had been murdered by the mafia 3 days later. My actions do not magically change, correct. To get you on my side? Correct. To diffuse a wagon? I've already done so! What did you have to do with the wagon when it had already diffused before you came back? It's the equivalent of removing you from the equation and still managing to diffuse the wagon, successfully.

Did I mention how bad that logic was?

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder

And you claim that DGB is buddying up to me?

Actually, I never said that. Seriously, when did I say that? What I said was that DGB was your scumbuddy and was chainsaw defending you. I beg you to get your facts straight and think things through before you misrep someone.

Woops. Well I'm sorry, I meant that TUA was your almost-dead scumbuddy and you are not chainsaw defending him. Does this make that better?

Seriously, why is everyone letting MO get away with such blatant scumposting? UA is town. MO is scum.

I love ultimatums

Get on the ball.

[Metal Overlord]

Typo at the last part. I wasn't being exactly serious about that point, but well.

"Woops. Well I'm sorry, I meant that TUA was your almost-dead scumbuddy and you are now chainsaw defending him"

[Metal Overlord]

Yeah well Jen for tomorrow I guess. Today's possibilities are TUA or KBW or MO. There isn't much a case against MO except TUA spamming "this guy is scum!" and Bulbazak saying "I believe that it is comprehensible that the slot of Metal Overlord is a scum aligned one." and Jen saying "TUA is good MO is bad"


tl;dr my votes are all OMGUSes

[Metal Overlord]

I was stating the facts in the first paragraph, so I refer to myself in 3rd person

the tl;dr is 1st person so really no big deal

[Metal Overlord]

MS:
good job guys

thats why we need policy lynches

VOTE: Jennifer

Bulbazak by experimental evidence, the Policy lynch point against me has been invalidated. Will respond to you later. also will get Kx to post

[Metal Overlord]

@MM: Buddying absolutely is a scumtell. Town shouldn't care what anybody thinks of them, and therefore should have no reason to buddy up to somebody. Buddying is getting on somebody's good side for the sole purpose of them liking you and hopefully not lynching you. This goes against town's main objective, which is to scumhunt. However, it plays perfectly with scum's objective, which is to survive at all costs.

Also, lying is something town should never do. Again, town should have no need to be dishonest and to outright fabricate. Can town be secretive? Yes. Should they ever lie? No.

And saying that you are not responsible for all that your slot does is ludicrous. The alignment of your slot does not magically change simply because there are 2 people playing instead of 1. The fact of the matter is that your partner was scummy and was caught. Tough luck. And maybe I backed down a little off the scumminess of your early posts because of how well-written they were. But in the end, posts are judged by the content therein, not by how pretty they are, and once I get past that, your posts are still pretty scummy.

Actually, I never said that. Seriously, when did I say that?

Hmm... How about:

do note that there are two heads in this hydra, with two different playstyles, and I appeal to you to create a solid read holistically by combining the reads of both heads together, and not just tunneling on a single "scumtell" from one head of what could have been a playstyle quirk.

For now, you have no definite proof against *me*

Do you deny that you have mislynched a villager once or more before just because he was exhibiting "scumtells" but wasn't actually scum?

What does this have to do with the case at hand? A few mislynches does not cancel out the successful application of certain scumtells or their validity. This is simply Correlation Implies Causation, which is a logical fallacy. I would like you to address the case by its own merits, and not try to discredit it through some other means.

This proves that even you and your "scumtells" are not infallible, and also have a possibility of making mistakes. I am implying that you are wrong, in the case of this game.

You do make a decent point about possible confirmation bias. However, that would be true only if I was looking at KX scum, painted the entire slot as that, and argued that with you having no say to dissuade me. But that is not the case. I saw a player, or in this case a hydra, commit a series of scumtells, which I pointed out and voted them for. I did this with no thought whatsoever on which half of the hydra committed the tells, as it was only one slot. You were the one that brought it up and tried to use it as a defense. It's like replacing into a slot and then arguing that your predecessor's scumminess cannot be used against you. This is false, as the slot remains the same regardless of who's playing, and I've successfully lynched players who replaced in a scum slot primarily BECAUSE of their predecessor's scumminess. I recognize that the original actions were committed by your partner, and that I'm talking to you now, but the fact remains that your slot as a whole committed those scumtells, as well as others, and is therefore scummy.

This argument is fair enough.

I am arguing that you are against my partner and therefore my slot just because you have issues with his playstyle, and unless you can show independent evidence against me that rules out any possibility of playstyle quirks being part of the equation, you cannot indict me as scum.

Even if we were to separate everything from the context of what your partner did, you still buddied up to me, which, as I've said before, is a scumtell.

Just to make things clear for all town to see, lets refer to the part where I buddied you.

Once again I support you for your attempt at the self-vote and I support you for the useful reads and finger pointing you have done for the town.

I hope we can work together for the town. We would make a great scumhunter team. There are no night kills so I believe it is safe to play my best without fear of sniped in the night.

From my knowledge of mafia buddying, they usually either defend, or constantly agree with said person. Just food for thought. If you view this as a scumtell, once again its your subjective opinion and I cannot say otherwise.

You also accused me of buddying up to TUA, which implies that he is town, something that you'd only know if you were scum.

Is it possible, that both of you are scum? There is always a possibility, no? One thing's for sure, you are a superior player to TUA. In weaker cases, TUA would try to buddy up to you with "Bulbazak is definitely town because xxx", but somebody like me will spot this immediately. So instead, you take a different position of defending him, with your currently unarguably high town-cred. Could you please provide reasons on why TUA is a bad lynch, and consequently a worse choice for a lynch than me?

My actions do not magically change, correct. To get you on my side? Correct. To diffuse a wagon? I've already done so! What did you have to do with the wagon when it had already diffused before you came back? It's the equivalent of removing you from the equation and still managing to diffuse the wagon, successfully.

My point being that you buddied up to me with the purpose of diffusing the wagon on you. Just because I came back at a later point to address it does not change the fact that you committed that act with that purpose at that time.

I see. Well then if my buddying up to you was specific for the intention to get only you off my wagon, why did the others get off my wagon first before you? Are you implying that my buddying up to you was not meant for you? Would the end result have changed if I happened to buddy somebody else?

Woops. Well I'm sorry, I meant that TUA was your almost-dead scumbuddy and you are chainsaw defending him. Does this make that better?

I love the complete 180 you've made on me. It gives me warm fuzzies to see scum flail in such an obvious manner.

I have no idea why you find TUA town... really...

tl;dr my votes are all OMGUSes

Two things wrong with that:

1.) For my vote to be an OMGUS, you would have had to have voted me before I voted you, which you did not. At the very least, you should have had an extreme suspicion that I was scum, which you did not. In essence, you are desperate to discredit my case, and that includes lie about it.

My apologies for my sweeping statement. However, do you deny that TUA's vote on me was not an OMGUS?

2.) I do indeed have a case against you/your slot. In fact, we've been arguing about it's validity this entire time (and not its individual points). For the sake of those who do not want to read a novel to find it, I'll put it in its own separate post. Maybe then people can see there's a series of justifiable reasons to lynch your slot.

@UA: Three things about your first point against OH:

1.) RBD is female. Therefore it is not that strange for her to like MLP.

2.) What people do or do not like is inconsequential to them being scum.

3.) Let's keep this stupidity out of the thread please.

[Metal Overlord]

Ok firstly I'll rebut the points that I can rebut against me, and I'll let KX rebut those which are targeted at him, because he knows his own intentions better than I do

The case on MO (for those who refuse to read walls and other relevant bits of information):

1.) Their stance on policy lynches are just bad. It's not even like other players' views on PLs, where it is sometimes a necessary evil, but instead, they advocate policy lynching for the sake of policy lynching. Simply put, they'd rather policy lynch than do actual scumhunting.

Point disproven. Early pushes for KBW policy lynch paid off. Just because you don't agree with our strategy does not make it a scumtell.

2.) Their reads list was fake and not genuine at all. Its only purpose was to placate town, not to help in the scumhunting and find scum.

Kx will reply

3.) Their reasoning for the difference in reads when confronted was completely backwards. You do not read the entire thread to get general reads and then read ISOs to solidify them through context. Simply put, they got caught faking reads and messed up on their lie to get out of it.

Kx will reply

4.) They succumbed to the pressure on them and panicked about being lynched, although at no point were they ever in danger of being lynched. Town would have continued scumhunting, instead all they were worried about was self-preservation. This is in line more with a scum mindset than a town one.

Kx will reply the first statement. Regarding the second statement, anybody will preserve themselves. Nobody, regardless of alignment, will want to be lynched. For a townie, you are the only person that is confirmed town, so you should defend yourself at all costs.

5.) They have repeatedly tried to dismiss or discredit the case against them, rather than dealing with it. Originally this was done by trying to disassociate the two sides of the hydra. More recently, they have tried to claim that those on their wagon are on because of OMGUS, even though this is a blatant lie. As I said before, self-preservation at all costs.

We have never dismissed a case, and if a case can be discredited, it is a bad/weak case. Even still, discrediting, is at least directly, confronting the case. Regarding the OMGUS, I would like everybody to refer to

Shit.

KBW might be town.

VOTE: Metal Overlord.

We can still make this happen, no?

Lol

6.) They buddied up to me to try to get me to drop the case against them and to get me on their side. As I've said repeatedly, buddying is a scumtell, as town has no reason to buddy, since they are too busy trying to catch scum.

Insofar, this "buddying" up to you had not managed to get you to drop the case against me, as you claim. However, the others have somehow dropped the case against me despite not being the target of any buddying. Can you explain the discrepancy?

7.) After they saw that they could not deter me, they did a complete 180 and started implying I was scummy for some indeterminate reason. Personally, I think they're just flailing at this point.

Confirmation bias

8.) In an effort to do so, they claimed that I was buddying up to TUA. The problem with this is that the only way I could be buddying to TUA was if I was scum and they were town. This goes against everything they've said about TUA's slot. Not only that, but it shows a knowledge of TUA's alignment, which only scum would know.

9.) After I pointed out the stupidity of the TUA buddying argument, they then backpedaled and accused me of being scumbuddies with TUA and chainsaw defending him. This would only have merit if I had been calling them scum only after the major TUA push began and they voted for TUA, however, I've been on MO as scum since before then, so I don't know where they're getting this.

8 and 9 are the same. Apparently, while accusing DGB of chainsaw defending me, you neglected that DGB never called you scum and in fact was pushing more for TUA. Notwithstanding I have no idea what chainsaw defending means, but if we were to draw parallels DGB was voting TUA very early as well, just as you have voted for me. On this point I have no idea what I'm talking about, but I am sure of this fact: more people are in favor of lynching TUA than me, with more solid reasons and different perspectives. Do share why TUA refused to distinguish which head was posting for the town.

In summary, MO is scum, plain and simple. So I implore everyone: Save a town. Lynch a scum-hydra.

Bulbazak can you please read this please?

UNVOTE:

I'll put down a vote tomorrow. Hopefully I'll talk to arthur and see where he wants it. I think that MO is in the lead now, but I'm not seeing that as a good lynch. I do think the kx head read scummy but the ms head reads townish, and honestly right now I'm inclined to not vote for someone who's actually putting some effort into the game when a good number of people aren't doing anything or are promising content to come. And with that said, I'll probably be up for an underachivers lynch

This is what I mean by taking the heads reads separately then combining their reads together to get a final read.

[Metal Overlord]

I'm tired and my tooth hurts but lol if you think my vote on you was an OMGUS.

lol if you/or your head thought KBW was town

[Metal Overlord]

MS:
good job guys

thats why we need policy lynches

And yet you voted TUA... why didn't you vote KBW if you are such a fan of a policy lynch on KBW?

VOTE: MO

Others proving my point for me holds more credence to me proving it myself. Besides, many others were against me for a policy lynch, especially Bulbazak, well so I don't policy lynch, and let you guys do it. Guess what? I was right!

[Metal Overlord]

KBW scum flip gives me confidence that my reads are correct.

VOTE: Metal Overlord

This is the guy that needs to die right now.

Lol i'll let KX talk to you since you just love mislynching me >.>

[Metal Overlord]

Meh, k, KX here, ./unragequit. MS convinced me to return etc, I think I'm caught up. First the things MS wanted me to address, then it's 2 AM, so ima head to sleep, some more stuff in the morning. My stuff is in italics btw.

The case on MO (for those who refuse to read walls and other relevant bits of information):

I assume then this is the entire case against us?

1.) Their stance on policy lynches are just bad. It's not even like other players' views on PLs, where it is sometimes a necessary evil, but instead, they advocate policy lynching for the sake of policy lynching. Simply put, they'd rather policy lynch than do actual scumhunting.

Point disproven. Early pushes for KBW policy lynch paid off. Just because you don't agree with our strategy does not make it a scumtell.

Wanted to add on here that this actually makes it a towntell, seeing as how it would have been extremely easy to say we don't favor policy lynches, but instead said we supported them when the main option was scum. Could be bussing, but doesn't seem like the appropriate time or place to buss

2.) Their reads list was fake and not genuine at all. Its only purpose was to placate town, not to help in the scumhunting and find scum.

Kx will reply

Excuse me, but were do I say it was fake? Those were my actual reads at that point. Yeah, the main motivation in making them was to give town something to judge the slot off of, not finding scum, but I don't see how that takes away from the fact that they were scumreads which showed who I found as scum.

3.) Their reasoning for the difference in reads when confronted was completely backwards. You do not read the entire thread to get general reads and then read ISOs to solidify them through context. Simply put, they got caught faking reads and messed up on their lie to get out of it.

Kx will reply

Well, fuck you too. Care to explain any proof you have of this? I'm sorry if you dislike how I play, but it's what I do. I read the thread to see what happened, how things went down, etc, then did ISOs to confirm or deny things I picked up about certain people, and while looking at an individual posts I could remember how it fit into things before. Also, if you're saying I only did that when confronted, and it was a lie made to get out of it, check out post #370 and #372. In both I say that I will

do the ISOs later

, and this is before suspicion in large came to me. Simply put, you didn't read my posts and made an incorrect assumption about how things would be done, then made up an incriminating explanation for why

4.) They succumbed to the pressure on them and panicked about being lynched, although at no point were they ever in danger of being lynched. Town would have continued scumhunting, instead all they were worried about was self-preservation. This is in line more with a scum mindset than a town one.

Kx will reply the first statement.

Wut the fuq? "The succumbed to the pressure when there wasn't even pressure" Sorry if this is misrepping, but can you read this to yourself? I made the post primarily because I wanted town to have something to go off of on the slot. We had done very little, and I wanted to change that. Idk about you, but I think if somebody does nothing they should get lynched.

KBW scum flip gives me confidence that my reads are correct.

VOTE: Metal Overlord

This is the guy that needs to die right now.

Lol i'll let KX talk to you since you just love mislynching me >.>

Hey HD bro, you like being scum? More to come later, but in short, does anybody who's played with HD think this seems normal for him? Ordinarily he's way more active and involved, and his go-to strategy as scum is lurk. He certainly isn't lacking time, he actually started hosting a game on another site we play on, so yeah.

Still kinda pressed for time, but think I can manage and hopefully be active.

[Metal Overlord]

Manufactured = faked. Simple English lesson there, and congrats, you got it for free. And again, as town your primary goal should be to scumhunt, not to placate town. All I see from your admitted reasons are scum motives.

You seem to be using the definition meaning to concoct or invent; to fabricate. Weren't you saying you were going to assume I wasn't an idiot? Why would I admit I faked reads? When I used that word, I meant as in to make or produce something. As in, I didn't do it because I thought "oh, I should share what I think" I did if for a specific reason. And weren't you going at me at one point for trying to start something with semantics?

Simply put, what you said IS backwards. ISOs are good for general reads, and a complete readthrough of the thread gives you better reads due to context. You, however, said the exact opposite. My explanation is you got caught faking reads and lied about it, rather badly I might add. The only other explanation is you really did this, and are therefore a complete idiot. I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt.

As I said, fuck you too. That's how I do stuff.

First, you obviously misquoted. I'm starting to rethink you not being an idiot, especially with the quote directly above you. Second, any vote is pressure. The pressure simply increases as more votes are added. This is why a single vote can be good as pressure to urge discussion. However, you were never in danger of a lynch. Thus you panicking under very little pressure is telling. I might be able to understand it if you were under the same pressure TUA was yesterday, or Jen today, who is currently at L-2. But you started panicking when you were between L-7 and L-5, because let's be honest your wagon never got past L-4. You were NEVER in any real danger of being lynched, and even if you were, there were better ways to handle it, such as trying to get your final reads or thoughts out, or addressing what exactly was wrong with your wagon, all of which are helpful to the town. Instead, you went into full self-preservation mode and mainly tried to placate us and serve us heaping helpings of AtE.

Considering I had just

given

my reads, I didn't have any final reads to say. Also, I believe I tried to say what was wrong with it, but nobody was willing to listen, so then I decided to not waste any more time on the game and ragequit. Upon rereading, yeah, I get what you meant. That was total misrep. But check this shit out:

Ok, just finished reading the thread over, will move onto ISOs in a second for more accurate reads

This is were I would have to first have lied about in what order I did things. However, at that point, I had exactly one vote on me, and it's an RVS vote. So yeah, please tell me, were is the supposed pressure I cracked under?

Actually, HD just got back from being V/LA. So attempt to cause a mislynch via lying and fallacy is denied.

Oh cool, so now HD can respond to it himself! In my post I said why I knew he wasn't inactive, so yeah. As for attempting to cause a mislych, first, were is my vote on him? Were are other votes on him? Were am I pushing for him to be lynched? Also, for it being a mislynch, that would be evidence only if I were scum. If your evidence for why a person is scum only works if you assume the person is scum, the only person in a fallacy here is you.

Can you show me where HD is lurking? I have always played with a hyper agressive and usually bulldog with a bone tunneling HD...

Looking over some of his games, I might actually be wrong here. However, certain events I won't divulge due to ongoing game led me to believe such. Even if so though, I would like HD to post a little more.

On the subject of the Jenn lynch, no clue why MS is voting on it, but I was under the impression they were scummy myself. This was because of Serra's play and their vote on me over TUA. However, Bulbazac left something important out when mentioning said post. In that post, they claim they're voting us of TUA because TUA was trying to stay alive, and fighting the lynch. That is one an entirely BS reason. However, I do see what you mean about otherwise a lack of evidence, and it certainly doesn't seem like enough to quicklynch.

[Metal Overlord]

MS:

unvote][/unvote]

If Kx has doubts about this, then I will hold on until we have a mutually agreed upon scumread

If your evidence for why a person is scum only works if you assume the person is scum, the only person in a fallacy here is you.

Good job KX that was very powerful!

Sorry MS, but Cool Story Bros. Lynch me. I want you all to know what it's like to be wrong. GL mafia, but with this lot, you have nothing to fear.

You were at L-7 at the time. There was no danger of being lynched.

Votecount 1.15:

Metal Overlord - Bulbazak, BT, Jennifer, Human Destroyer
The Acting Method - ms. marangal
Bulbazak - Reek, keybladewielder
Robocopter - rachmarie
Reek - Metal Overlord
Underachivers - Robocopter, Otterhorse
keybladewielder - arcangel8, underachivers
RachMarie - Klick

Not Voting - antilles, The Acting Method, Titan

With 17 alive it takes 9 to lynch and to no-lynch.

Deadline is in (expired on 2013-03-31 00:58:14) or by midnight on April 1st, 2013.

The Mastin2 head of The Underarchivers is V/LA until at least the end of March.

Still searching for a replacement for Reek, TAM, and BT.

I don't know about Kx but...


Even

I

was flustered at L-5. The problem was that deadline was quickly approaching and a solid lynch target hasn't been established despite me hinting or soft pushing for KBW policy lynch. If deadline had not been coincidentally extended time and time again, I would have been the unfortunate victim of a lynch without trial; recall that I had written a long #447 to you and you had not read it yet --- it would've been okay if you found it scummy and lynched me, but lynch without trial is gey imo.


Well anyway, I'm not giving up yet, so there will be no AtE (fuk u stupid towns lynch me and cry) until I do break down, which Bulbazak is trying very hard to do.

Let us get this straight for a moment.

Do you deny that you have mislynched a villager once or more before just because he was exhibiting "scumtells" but wasn't actually scum?

What does this have to do with the case at hand? A few mislynches does not cancel out the successful application of certain scumtells or their validity. This is simply Correlation Implies Causation, which is a logical fallacy. I would like you to address the case by its own merits, and not try to discredit it through some other means.

This proves that even you and your "scumtells" are not infallible, and also have a possibility of making mistakes. I am implying that you are wrong, in the case of this game.

Everybody makes mistakes. It's part of the game. However, that does not automatically mean that you can dismiss everything they say. No one's going to be perfect in their scumhunting. Period. Expecting them to be so is a fallacy (7 of 7 or BoP, I'm not sure which.). Let's stick with the points of the case, shall we?

My argument here is that

You are Wrong.

That is what I aim to prove throughout our course of argument. You are attempting to prove that I am scum, and I am here to prove you wrong(without necessitating a flip). Hope this helps focus.


One more thing to add, is that as a town player I have been trying very hard to construct really long tl;dr posts and try my best to make them logical, reasonable and genuine. I cannot say the same for TUA.

Unvote: DGB.

@ Dashie

How likely do you think it is that at least one scum was on Key's wagon to bus him for town cred?

When he had a lot of votes initally, high since it was policy. The final wagon (especially the few that came after my vote) low as simply not posting would have gotten somepony else lynched. Now that all goes up in smoke with a MO/TUA scumflip since its swapping scum lynch for scum lynch, but if MO and TUA are town than zdn, Bulb, RM are all above average town picks to the point where I would say no more than one scum and the O/U is probably .5

Its probably easier/better to try and base reads off of KBW actions and votes. Thats why Bulb is town, and DGB is somewhat likely town, and mayyybe TUA but that was self-preservation and TUA is TUA. Utility lynches are never all that bad.

Jen/Antilles need so much dead though right now.

Sorry, Nero, that I'm not going to agree with you on a DGB wagon, because THIS...





















...Needs sheeping.
RBD's done an amazing job of reversing my scumread there.

VOTE: Jennifer.

MOAR MO VOTES. Please don't let this hydra be mislynched on day 1 two games in a row.

why are you going the pity angle "DGB always calls me scum"?

Stop twisting my words. There is no "pity angle" I'm stating a fact. You know damn well that I can't disscuss on going and what it looks like is your trying to get me ticked of so that I do mention them and get modkilled. Now fuck off and die, scum

[Metal Overlord]

woops

UNVOTE

[Metal Overlord]

MS: Hi I'm a bit busy this few days will make some posts later

Since KX doesnt post anyways but may appeal to let him fill in while im gone

And Antilles is suspicious a bit not much of a slip yet but some slight reads especially the lurking

[Metal Overlord]

@Rainbow, our discussion on KBW was nonexistent. Me and MS have been running a very disconnected Hydra, not really talking about the game much together. I believe the extent of it was a few words about if we were for policy lynches or not, but even that I'm not sure about. Also, you asked a question for how we are about bussing, I don't have any scum meta, and not sure about MS. You can check Friends and Enemies, which was already linked in the thread, for me as a Mason though, were I ignored one of my partners for the most part and formed a rather awkward (imo, though apparently people bought it) negative relation with the other.

@Bulbakaz, a question, you failed to disprove any of the defenses I raised against your points regarding me aside from that I ragequit, which, as far as I know, isn't alignment indicative. What do you currently think of me in particular? Also, want me to make a compilation of all the horrible arguments/responses you've made?

@HD, why do you find our slot scum?

How is Antilles even still in the game? Anyway, would be fine with their lynch.

[Metal Overlord]

@Rainbow, I might have missed it, but didn't see them camping TUA much, or attacking DGB/Robo. Also, I see one post pestering KBW, but otherwise no defense, closest to it is townreading them slightly. Admittedly they have very few posts, but still.

Klick, current reads?

Also, TAM/Lurker seem to have done almost literally nothing, so yeah.

[Metal Overlord]

For the first, specifically the first four points. I believe you kinda dropped them all after my #1014.

As for the second part, are you sure you're in a sane state of mind? Since that's abnormally paranoid. Actually, all I really wanted to see was a response, be it a denial or admittance of you having horrible responces/arguments, but yeah . . .

[Metal Overlord]

Personally, while I agree that we shouldn't focus solely on each other, you're conviction that we're scum is quite possibly damaging, as it undoubtedly affects your other reads, and is something that I believe certainly shouldn't be just dropped. Also, if you truly believe us to be scum, then dropping us as somebody you go after actively and press for the lynch of is something extremely against your alignment, so I'm curious, what makes you willing to do such? And where does this "hostility" on our part come from? If you claim that we're being "hostile" and so that makes us even more scummy (as you seem to be) then what can your activity towards us be considered? All I'm trying to do is actively defend myself. You cite the loaded question; Yes, either answer makes you look bad, but it's not in a deceptive way. The mere fact that it is loaded, and such a question can be made attests to that. You have made quite a few poor cases against us, trying to force us to be scum against the facts. That is exposed by the nature of the question. Either you lie, or you admit to that fact. As mentioned, I don't believe you to be scum. Though, interestingly enough, you could quite easily be scum, and it is extremely foolish to have dropped that as an option. And, considering some of the aforementioned forcing, I'm actually beginning to reconsider the dubbing of you as town.

[Metal Overlord]

this is KX btw

[Metal Overlord]

Also, I strongly disagree with the DGB wagon, and with the Antilles wagon, is there any reason we're voting them aside from the whole total of 10 posts thing?

[Metal Overlord]

MS: I'm back.

I think that bulbazack and mo are probably town and wish they'd both call a 14 day truce.

I hope we can work together for the town. We would make a great scumhunter team. There are no night kills so I believe it is safe to play my best without fear of sniped in the night.

I've tried to do that since Day 1...

Well anyway took you long enough Bulbazak. Your relentless houndering has gone on for a bit too long. Glad it's over.


Now, regarding the Antilles thing, I think I am right to say that both KX and Bulbazak both disagree on this lynch. Therefore I am compulsed to be against the lynch as well, but personally I doubt that a hydra can go totally 100% AFK out of the game; there are two players playing, if one goes out the other one can continue, such as Day 1 with KX and also the RBD solo at this point in time. I find it uncommon for both heads of a hydra to be both inactive at the same time; they had to have met or arranged previously to join as a hydra in this game, and so would have actually "remembered", at least one of them should have.

RBD's logic with the free pass thing is weird...


That's all for current events I guess

[Metal Overlord]

KX here, finally bothered to check for the stuff against them, which seems to be: Inactivity, didn't claim heads or give a reason why they wouldn't, few posts they have are pretty poor.

So yeah,

Vote: Antilles

[Metal Overlord]

Well, there goes the majority of my reasons. Glad to have you back in the game! Have to go right now, but will look at MM when I get back. For now
UNVOTE:

[Metal Overlord]

Atm, I must say I'm rather unsure. Antilles' recent posts don't take away from what was done before, so I think my unvote was somewhat hasty. Re-reading (and more carefully), Bulba does bring up some good points, and I realize a change now doesn't take from before. However, in light of recent events, I don't think that a vote on them should be there just yer. As for the subject of MM, looking over, I can see quite a few things that I don't like, but they're not overly so, and quite a few are WIFOM. They main thing that gives me pause in saying they read null-scum is their townread of me, which I find quite strange if they were scum, and so I won't jump on the wagon. This lack of desisivness could just be cause tired, idk, but hopefully will be able to get back to this when I have more time. ~KX

[Metal Overlord]

MS:

If Antilles is town that dude is probably scum^

Go away pls

Oh yeah, I'm also increasingly suspicious of HD.

I think we should consider lynching Titan at some point.

Pretending to be paranoid is my favorite schtick as scum, it allows me to cast a very wide net of baseless suspicion. I make shit cases and I go,

oooo ooo I'm so paranoi

d. That's what Titan is doing.

No lol sounds like bad idea

[Metal Overlord]

MS:

Atm, I must say I'm rather unsure. Antilles' recent posts don't take away from what was done before, so I think my unvote was somewhat hasty. Re-reading (and more carefully), Bulba does bring up some good points, and I realize a change now doesn't take from before. However, in light of recent events, I don't think that a vote on them should be there just yer. As for the subject of MM, looking over, I can see quite a few things that I don't like, but they're not overly so, and quite a few are WIFOM. They main thing that gives me pause in saying they read null-scum is their townread of me, which I find quite strange if they were scum, and so I won't jump on the wagon. This lack of desisivness could just be cause tired, idk, but hopefully will be able to get back to this when I have more time. ~KX

Would like to say that I'm disappointed at this post. This post is fluff lol


Will respond to big bad wallmasters Bulb and Antilles next

[Metal Overlord]

MS:

Would like to put some disclaimer before we launch into this big wall. IMO Bulb is trying to bite off more than he can chew; starting wallotext arguments with me, Kx, and now Antilles. Yeah I wasn't very nasty towards Bulb throughout our whole exchange, because I am familiar with such tactics which I conveniently employ myself. However Kx replied more aggressively and Antilles is now dominating via power talk. I'll say Bulb, if you keep this up you're going to get destroyed. I'm telling you. I was being nice.


Right now lets get this show on the road; @ #1176 and #1179. context: #1170

Nope nope nope nope nope.

A classic "wait, things are not going as I planned them. Shit... you guys, we gotta stop this" moment.
I relish these moments.
[/quote]

Bulbazak is finding a more difficult enemy that he has faced this game!

Let me get this straight...

Already turning on the appeal to popularity/majority/common sense tell... let's see where this leads.

Fluff

You decide to look into your wagon for scum, and come away with town reads on the entire thing?

Yes. Yes indeed. A little bit of common sense goes a long way when coupled with a lot of experience.

Ok, but vague explanation.

And all for BS reasoning

Whoa. Whoa there pardner. It's not bullshit. Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean it isn't true.

Agreed.

It's funny: One could almost believe that you clicked the "quote" button on my post before even reading it in its entirety, with the express purpose of trying to dissuade people from lynching Ms Marangal.

And I'll tell you one thing right now. You're going to fail. She's going to be lynched, and she's going to flip scum, and there's not a damn thing you can do about it, friend. Soz in advance.

Strong opponent we have here


Continued on next post; discussing #1192

[Metal Overlord]

Going to address something before going further:

Never mind, post #991 means DGB is almost certainly town.

Question, how does this:

Jennifer is town, Metal Overlord is town, let's lynch Antilles!

equal "certainly town"? Walk me through your thought process here. Because what I see in that giant wall of yours is a lot of town pacification and buddying. Your reasoning is bad, and that includes your points on MM.

Okay, before I provide you "reasoning"...

First, have you ever played with DGB before? Well, I have. A lot. A

whole

lot.
I'm assuming if you have too, you either weren't paying attention, or you're rather dull.

If you

haven't

played with her before, that's actually a point in your favor on the "I might actually pretend to care about your opinion" scale. If you

have

played with her before, then well, guess what, your opinion goes out the window entirely.

Nope. Haven't played with her. Now what was your reasoning? Or were you hoping that I wouldn't noticed that you said a lot without providing anything of substance?

Actually, that's what I've got a lot from your posts: Zero substance. To be honest, I was kinda excited when you returned and wrote a lot. I took it to be a good sign. But then I actually read what you wrote, and found that you had essentially created a giant wall that contained absolutely nothing. No reasoning for reads. No scumhunting. Just pacifying those on your wagon and leaping to conclusions with absolutely no reasons given whatesoever and expecting everyone to automatically trust you (because obviously scum can't write giant walls) and follow your lead. Sorry, not going to happen.

I would've disagreed with this point if I hadn't done the read in my previous post, because #skim, but upon closer inspection I find this argument to be of merit. I would argue in Antille's favour that he was setting the stage; to introduce himself; to demolish Bulbazak with his logic, but indeed the first portion of the post wasn't much. But let's see the meat of the second portion.

Truth is, I don't trust you. Heck, I don't trust Rainbowdash, and here I am backing a wagon of her's. I do trust Titan, but even so, that doesn't mean I'm going to back everything they say and endlessly sheep them. Fact is, these posts of yours contain an unprecedented amount of ego. You're cocky. In fact, you're the type of cocky I absolutely hate. It makes sense if you're Chkflip. He was that kind of cocky, who even after deserting a game, claimed that he could have won as scum, even though his replacement was lynched based on Chk's scumminess. Guess who made that case? I did. And I'm ready to do it again. So, let's dance!

If this guy is indeed chkflip, firstly my apologies for my troll-like antitown play in Mainstream. It was a different playstyle tactic which I was employing but thought I would go further just to irritate everyone for the lulz.


Anyway let's dance Bulbazak! Just don't fall down.

Going to begin with these:

And I'll tell you one thing right now. You're going to fail. She's going to be lynched, and she's going to flip scum, and there's not a damn thing you can do about it, friend.

but ignoring what's actually true. Such as, that I've just handed you your second scum player.

Just follow my lead (like on kbw), and you'll get another red flip. On the other hand, you

could

fight me tooth and nail every step of the way and end up looking stupid

when

(yes) she is lynched, and (yes) there is a red flip. Again, it's your choice.

Just showing this trend. This is not certainty in reads. This is foreknowledge (notice the "when" instead "if"). Normally this degree of certainty is after an extended period of time, when the player has been pushing a specific slot, but there has been none of that from Antilles. Instead, he popped in, and claimed, with absolute certainty, that a player he hasn't interacted with AT ALL is scum, based on magical reasons that he's not going to share with anyone, because "if the blue fairy hasn't told them to you, then you must not be worthy".

Stop nitpicking please. You've also did that with the Kx reads with the ISO thing which honestly I did not understand at all. Lol

Either get out of the way or get tossed, because this lynch is happening.

Says who? This is a pretty bold statement considering you don't have the backing for it, but I do see your point, as you've pretty much poisoned that slot. Still going to fight you on it.

Agreed

Of course. And when I deliver a third scum flip after Ms Marangal, people's minds will be eased even further. And this will be the game where everybody was fooled by Antilles because he was an amazing scumhunter and bussed all of his buddies ASAP for insane town cred, and then lasted through mislynch after mislynch after mislynch after mislynch after mislynch after mislynch after mislynch after mislynch after mislynch after mislynch after mislynch after mislynch only to survive and win the game after having fooled everyone's pants off.

Hello strawman. How are you? I've missed you since the MO fight. Please inform Antilles that if he wants to betray the rest of his team, he's welcome to do so, but he's still going to be lynched either today or tomorrow.

This is true. Fancy you revealing all your total scum plans to the town!#1 evil mastermind.

@MM: What makes you think Antilles is town?

Also, sorry to say that your slot has been poisoned by WIFOM. It is very likely that you will be the lynch either today or tomorrow.

Simply put, there are 3 scenarios: 1.) We follow Antilles and lynch you. 2.) We lynch Antilles, and he flips scum. We have to assume he was trying to bus another partner for town cred, and you get lynched. 3.) We lynch Antilles, and he flips town. There will be a movement that will assume everything he observed was correct, and a wagon will form because of that. You might have a shot at that point (mainly because I have a town read on you and would fight the lynch because of that), but I have a feeling the force of the town would be too strong.

Ded.




Okay so, what now Bulbazak? Do you find Antilles scum? If he is scum, is it possible that I happen to be scum/will it change your read of me/ and vice versa?

Antilles is arguing that MM is scum; you are arguing that Antilles is scum. Personally I don't think MM is scum either but I am ready to change my opinion if Antilles gives me a good enough argument. As of yet, no he has not.

[Metal Overlord]

Oh yeah, I'm also increasingly suspicious of HD.

I think we should consider lynching Titan at some point.

Pretending to be paranoid is my favorite schtick as scum, it allows me to cast a very wide net of baseless suspicion. I make shit cases and I go,

oooo ooo I'm so paranoi

d. That's what Titan is doing.

Where did I say I'm paranoid of HD? *peers up at what I wrote*. Nope, nope quite clearly states I'm suspicious of him. Hmmm fancy that.

So, DGB are you reading my posts? Have you read my posts? Because if you do happen to be town, and you're coming away with anything other than damn titans town, well then I don't know what to tell you. Read better?

Have fun mudslinging though!

You know what I find interesting? You don't ask why I'm increasingly suspicious of HD, you just immediately start misrepping what I actually said and ironically making a baseless and shit case for me being scum.

Since when did DGB ever say anything about you being paranoid of HD? What the fuck is this?

He said that you being paranoid of him is a "scum read"


You're missrepping him not him misrepping you lol




WTF is this bad play from both DGB and Titan totally out of character

[Metal Overlord]

Titan and DGB just stahp your exchange kills brains



tl;dr you both make no sense

[Metal Overlord]

KX here, wanted to wait for Metal before I posted much more, but looks like I can't. I'm finding DGB highly town, and one thing in particular that sticks out is there support of my slot. We didn't exactly have town cred, so buddying didn't seem like a likely option at all, and considering KBW was scum, it just really doesn't make sense to me. What Titan's been saying in addition to their recently play does make me hesitate though, but for now town.

Underachievers, however, I haven't really found particularly townish at any point, and reading over their ISO again makes me think scum even more. Generally being unhelpful, the flopping around, and posting in general don't seem town to me. Also, if they flip, I think we can go after Antilles, somebody who while it seems is no longer inactive, is certainly still suspicious all the same. As such,

Vote: TheUnderachivers

[Metal Overlord]

GDI Voided I now hate you

This is like what, the third time?

VOTE: TheUnderachivers

[Metal Overlord]

@TUA, I know it is pretty hypocritical, but sorry, I believe I should have said quite a few of your posts are unhelpful (though I do feel overall you've been unhelpful as well). The interaction with KBW doesn't really help either.

[Metal Overlord]

Yes, actually, I do think it's quite possible seeing how things unfolded around the lynches. (iirc)

[Metal Overlord]

I believe that both of them were contenders for the lynch around the time. Not only based on the games balance, but considering Key was a far worse player, I find it makes quite a lot of sense.

[Metal Overlord]

@Bulbazak, It certainly doesn't prove him to be scum, but it leaves TUA being scum as a definitive option. It was originally meant to be a response to #1511, were it's used as a reason for TUA not to be scum. My point is, as you certainly seem to think with me, it leaves being scum a possibility. These posts have been by KX btw.

[Metal Overlord]

I really am not sure what to think, keep going back between null and highly town in my mind. I believe I talked about it in #1493, but there defense of me, since I know I'm town, makes no sense at all as scum, even if they were trying to win favor or convince others they were town. Since it's a nightless game, and to win as scum you have to stay alive until you're the last or one of the last players, the self-voting and drawing attention to themselves doesn't make a whole lot of sense either, as it's bait for votes and late game would probably be brought up alot when most people remaining are good, so it doesn't seem like a smart strategy either. Despite that, what Titan's been saying is making an impact, and the possibility they're just epicly messing with me is a real one, if unlikely. So very town atm.

Also, I actually think Titan is town atm, though I can't place quite why and they're probably wrong about DGB. ~KX

[Metal Overlord]

Actually, I think the only reason DGB's not voting for herself now is that TUA's wagon is actually gathering a bit of traction, and she doesn't want to lose that. Therefore, she has to call those who called her on her anti-town behavior stupid.

I may be disillusioned, but I still have a wincon and I'll still vote scum over town. I'm absolutely not trolling. I'm reading every word you are posting.

So if you'll vote scum over town, does that mean you're scum?

As an additional note, I may be over-sympathizing with them about the first self-vote, having done it myself over similar reasons as town in another game.

[Metal Overlord]

TUA & Titan are guaranteed scum.

Then either Antilles or Bulbazak.

Why not both? But srs, who would you have the fifth be then?

[Metal Overlord]

TUA, last minute reads or anything? You've said DGB/Jenn/Me/Lurker and scum and Ant/Titan is town, anything else?

[Metal Overlord]

@Syryana, did TUA's flip as scum change any of your reads at all, or do they remain the same as in post #1507 minus the deceased?

[Metal Overlord]

@Syryana, reason for holding me as a scum read, and the me/TUA/key lynch situation or being the deciding vote on TUA doesn't help at all?

Currently only scumread is Antilles, but I'll probably be looking over everybody in the DGB wagon in more detail aside from Bulbazak as time goes on. I'd like to hear from Klick, who's said nothing in almost five posts, and hear Rainbow's reaction to the lynch. You're also somebody I'd like to look into, though null/town for the moment.

Strong town reads would be Bulbazak, AA, DGB, HD, and possibly RBD.

Think I'd like to VOTE: Antilles right now. Also, hopefully me and Metal Sonic will be more coordinated in our efforts.

[Metal Overlord]

Oh yeah, didn't actually answer if they changed mine, not very much, though they did give me more confidence in my current reads, and flipped Titan a little. Also made the new DLC go from nullish to a person of interest.

@Bulbazak, does that mean you'll stop flooding space pressuring us/

[Metal Overlord]

@Syryana: tbh, I doubted it meant much seeing how I didn't think TUA would answer (and didn't anticipate this response), but if he didn't 'least I could have more assurance I made the right pick. As for asking you the question, k, wanted to make sure that was your answer. Currently you seem to be on the right pace toward convincing me of town.

@Bulbazak: Actually talked it over with MS when making the reads posts and about 20~ min before the final votecount to make sure that was what we wanted. If you'd like to talk to him in person, he should be posting shortly.

[Metal Overlord]

MS: Hi. Glad to see we have gotten another scum flip. This is going in the right direction. I hope one last scum player does not carry the game, it will be very... :/

I think that also cleans my slot somewhat, along with the twilight post by KX although I don't understand how that is towny(null for me, idk but if it works it works)

Okay so basically Kx gave me a shoutout at the flip and told me to check the thread, I skimmed from page 56 up to day lynch then I had to go to class so yeah couldn't post. No we did not have a QT. We will most probably get one or some form of communication for the better sake of everyone. Also we had a quick talk regarding reads etc.

Regarding the replacements, I'm satisfied with syryana's first few posts, so a null-town read for now. DCL gets a null cause I haven't read his posts(or I forgot about them). Disappointed with him/her reading me scum despite TUA flip but I hope I can change his/her impression later!


Regarding Antilles, basically previously I gave him a pass because he was inactive, also Bulb and Kx both gave him a pass at that time, so I wanted to see what Bulbazak vs Antilles will come up to. I was eagerly awaiting his reply to Bulb's #1391; it seems he has failed to even deliver a response. At this pace I will begin to agree with KX and also Bulb on Antilles lynch. Also his last post #1478 was wrong on TUA. so hmm.
For some reason I don't have a really really strong "OMG ANTILLES IS SCUM" feel, unlike the others, but just enough to make me fine with him as a lynch. I will call him, a "Policy Lynch"

Regarding DrippingGoofballs, the arguments against her are sound, but I would put her on the blacklist for now and not really advocate a full-on-lynch. It's not likely she will be getting far with such negative publicity. Perhaps I am biased but she "chainsaw defended" me earlier on, when she had no reason to if a scum wanted to cause a mislynch. So she's on the radar, but not on the chopping board.


Also @ Bulbazak I'm glad you have accepted my offer for a group scumhunting team
We shall rid this game of the mafia, especially in this no-nightkills game where we cannot be taken down

[Metal Overlord]

dgb shut up or else I may consider lynching you

those posts are getting irritating

[Metal Overlord]

Cool. So, DGB or Antilles next?

Dear god,

Please let Syryana be derp-scum and not derp-town, so that I can retain that last little drop of mafia sanity I've got left.

DGB

^ not a read


its srsly very irritating

[Metal Overlord]

Why is bulbazak scum?

[Metal Overlord]

im too lazy to iso your posts

find me one of his 'scum' posts and underline the scummy part. that would be enough to convince me

use two or 3 to improve your case and i might most probably be convinced

[Metal Overlord]

^by MS, requesting for bulbazak scum evidence

[Metal Overlord]

MS:

RBD, what's buggin ya about HD?

Also, MM's recent "I'm giving up" is setting off all kinds of alarms. I've never seen her do that before and being wrong about two reads is a bad bad bad reason to give up. Very un-Marangalish.

Satan cat's response to MM's "i'm giving up" post is also setting off alarms. It sounds like scum taking his partner to task.

QFT.



Also KX finds HD town for now; since he has lots of experience in games with HD(I mean a lot of games meta), I will take his word for it.


Also Antilles nice lurk post You have not responded to Bulbazak's #1391.


Would you care to give your eloquent opinion or are you going to forfeit?

[Metal Overlord]

QFAO


Quoted for Agreed Opinion

[Metal Overlord]

MS: Hi. KX hasn't popped in for a bit and I was waiting for him to pop in but he didn't, so I'll just pop in for a bit

@ RBD: Kx believes that HD is town. KX's views can be trusted (by me, at least), and he can substantiate this because he has played multiple games already with HD in the past. Basically, Kx metas HD to be town; as of what he last told me. Therefore I will take his word for it and believe he is town. You should too. Unless KX changes his mind.


@ Syryana lynch: I actually find the points against it quite satisfying and viable. However, Syryana has actually rebutted the points against her and her argument is sound, as well. I would have liked a syryana lynch, but the defense she made was quite good and I would put it on hold. I want to see how this argument turns out.

@Bulbazak vs DGB: For once, I actually saw DGB post at least an adequate argument against bulbazak. It was good, and unfortunately I can't say Bulbazak's response "misrep" wasn't up to par for once. I do not understand Bulb's tunneling on her for the self-vote; if I recall correctly Bulb himself was attacked for his own RVS self-vote. Granted, I did see Bulb's self vote as "townier" than the one DGB did, but I suppose I should not take this point into consideration when condemning DGB.

regarding the part where Bulb asks for evidence but DGB doesn't respond, I find it a null tell. Players are less willing to give their scum tells their reasoning; it is a waste of their time and just a futile my-word-versus-your-word scuffle.

"Why aren't you voting DGB, Bulb?" and "IF you vote for DGB I will vote for myself" are just totally stupid points, in my opinion, and is just a case of DGB using AtE which although I may not necessarily find scum, I find it rather annoying.

I believe both DGB and Bulbazak are scum. DGB has not noticably scumslipped, in my book, as of yet.

(I'm replacing out because I'm playing my last game and I want to only be playing that game right now, to answer that, Zdenek.)

Thanks, now I'll know your alignment here, from your flip in another game.

I HATE HATE HATE when people make allusions to ongoing, NO MATTER HOW INDIRECT they THINK these allusions are.

AGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAh

YOU are going to make me

SET
YOUR
TOES
ON
FIRE

What the hell. DrippingGoofballs, I demand you stop this idiocracy or I will change my opinion and let myself vote you.



However I am very very fine with lynching Antilles.

[Metal Overlord]

Also Antilles nice lurk post You have not responded to Bulbazak's #1391.

Was a response required?

Spoiler: Hint

No.

Also, I remember saying I was throwing him on ignore, because he's probtown and arguing with him is getting nowhere.
What reaction were you hoping to elicit from me?

Are

you

scum, Metal?

What exactly is the correct answer?

[Metal Overlord]

EBWOP

I believe both DGB and Bulbazak are not scum.


jesus christ that was fucking bad

[Metal Overlord]

This kids, is what happens when you don't proofread your posts

I am embarrassed

[Metal Overlord]

MO is on crack.

TYPO!!!!! I SWEAR ITS A TYPO!!!

[Metal Overlord]

Ms:

VOTE: syryana

Placeholder. Will be talking to Kx in an hour or so. Will be posting a detailed post of our discussion afterwards

[Metal Overlord]

Ms:

VOTE: syryana

Placeholder. Will be talking to Kx in an hour or so. Will be posting a detailed post of our discussion afterwards

Aaaaand this is the counter-wagon to scum-Marangal. Calling it right now.

And there's no surprise that Metal Overlord is on the counter-wagon.

The Wagon Day 1 was on KBW scum. The Counter Wagon day 1 was on TUA scum.

You can go suck a dick. And not because I told you to.

[Metal Overlord]

Just fucking vote me and lynch me. I can't take it.

What the hell people...there must be something in the water. Cause you are now the third person to express a desire to get lynched.

@mod did you secretly add some jesters to this setup?

QFT

Also Kx was busy and said he would talk to me tomorrow. Guess we will have to wait till tomorrow

[Metal Overlord]

MS:
Okay so I talked to KX today and apparently he was unwell so we couldn't discuss much. He has given me his top 3 scumreads and townreads which I will keep secret for now. I have instructed him to keep constant tabs on HD because we all agree he is acting weird, but as Kx has a good meta knowledge of HD I believe he is reliable. As of now, KX isn't seeing HD as scum yet so RBD can calm down, we'll get to him if KX's radar pings.



As of now, under Kx's reads.

VOTE: DGB

he said so

[Metal Overlord]

Why are you so defensive, DGB?

Why can't you trust MS that he will make the right choice?


and why are you flipping over one placeholder vote



@Bulb, he finds MM townie, specifically a null-town read

[Metal Overlord]

you made tammy quit you monster!

he was crying when he left the game! how could you!

[Metal Overlord]

poor tammy ;-;

[Metal Overlord]

HOLY FUCK WILL YOU IDIOTS JUST LYNCH MS MARANGAL ALREADY

Well you were wrong about TUA, so... basically your credibility dropped

[Metal Overlord]

DGB is flinging accusations like they're going out of style.

I have 3 scum reads, everyone else is town or prob-town, pretty much. That's hardly "flinging accusations" but you're scum, I shouldn't argue with scum. What am I doing...

Hmm this is a good post, exactly the post which kx said would make bulbazak scum and dgb town

Now this is the exact dgb post that kx said to look out for and bulb is scum

Vote:

bulbazak

[Metal Overlord]

Dgb I think you're right and town

[Metal Overlord]

The Metal Sonic head will be V/LA from Monday until next Monday -- 1 week

VOTE: Syryana

what the hell, let Kx take over

[Metal Overlord]

MS:

welp bulb looks like you died before me, heh? I know, I used to be quite a prime candidate for mislynches even as a powerful scumhunter too, I know the feeling lol

I'll carry your scumhunting legacy, dont worry(unless your flip is scum, which is unlikely IMO but if it is, damn). You would not have died in vain

also hope to see you(on the same team, town or scum doesnt matter) and play with you in another game.



and @ DGB if bulb flips town I will

SHOOT

LYNCH YOUR FUCKING FACE

if your right you get a cookie

VOTE: Bulbazak



fuck u kx u lazy bum

[Metal Overlord]

mo we're not lynching dgb tomorrow btw

Yeah we are probably going to lynch HD either way because in the offchance that Bulb actually is scum it makes HD way way more likely to be scum than DGB.

Bulb town (expected) puts the HD/DGB/ZD/Nacho all around same level of who dies next.

RBD unless Kx says to get on HD we give HD a free pass. thats it. stop tunnelling




@nacho rbd a possible lynch y/n

[Metal Overlord]

i like nacho's play and avatar. if only he had a cooler username...

[Metal Overlord]

just popped by to say that we're not voting HD until my other head Kx gives the all-clear


also DGB u suck you were wrong about good buddy bulb i want to shoot u but im on my phone

[Metal Overlord]

my V/la will be over today

i need to catch up though


kx didnt post anything throughout my v/la time, what a shithead

VOTE: syryana

[Metal Overlord]

KX here, sorry for the inactivity, probably should have declared V/LA, finals weeks approaching here, really busy etc. Will try to catch up on things asap.

[Metal Overlord]

MS:

Anyone calling me scum or have me as a scum read still at this point of the game should either retire from mafia, or give themselves up as scum.


1. I am a 3rd counter wagon to the 2 scum wagons day 1(Fact)
2.Bulbazak, a town, read me as town(fact)
3.

end of day distancing at its finest

Except, HD, I don't bus. I don't know how Nero plays as scum (you'd have to ask him), but bussing NEVER works out in my favor, so I don't do it. So I'm delivering an ultimatum.

MO and TUA cannot be scum together.
Pick one, run with it. Who is the scum, who is the town.

(Right from the mouth of scum)





These 3 are enough to make me a 100% town, and should be communally viewed in all the eyes of the town. Read: I get a free pass for the whole game

Jennifer, if you still continue to vote me after these evidence, please get voted out. If you happen to be town, you really need to retire.


For reference:

"MO voted a town read therefore he must be scum!" - Jennifer (Opinion)

LOL

[Metal Overlord]

^includes syryana and jennifer and some other idk

[Metal Overlord]

... I need to retire? Wth? You're voting Syrana, who Bulb listed as a strong town read of his (fact).

Woops. Good point. I'll fix that. I wanted to vote DGB for being WRONG, but the town totally doesn't. Would you care to help?

So you're being hypocritical in using Bulb's read as evidence as to why you are town. Not only should you not be voting Bulb's town read, but you should be faulting those who are, but you're not.

Syryana read me scum too she should get out asap

Also, quoting scum WIFOM does not confirm your towniness....

Is that your opinion or what?

He basically made a bet, knowing himself is scum

(fact)

, came to pick me and betted with the town: "one is scum one is town", well you already chose him for scum

(fact, mind you)

, its unlikely that I will as scum too

(my opinion, you see I'm not pushing this without facts backing me up)

;

Unless you are implying that he chose 2 scum, and tried that, which is extremely unlikely considering that in conjunction I am the third counterwagon day 1.

Unless you are implying that TUA bussed two of his teammates Day 1(who the hell does that?), which is unlikely because he sucks so much

(my opinion again, but I have no idea how to prove this any further)

.

You'd better find evidence to support your theory, because you're pulling your theory out of thin air such as your subjective, non-universal, and unsupported "scumtells" right now.

Only point to consider that you mentioned in the Day 1 wagon, as chances would be that main wagons wouldn't all be on scum.

Fact

That does cut in favor of you being town,

Fact

but

I'm not sure

that chance alone is strong enough in light of all the other

bad scum tells

Opinion

you've given off, topped with you trying to goad me into retiring.

Fact > Opinion. If you think that your fickle opinion, aka "scumtells", seems to be greater than the facts, yeah you really need to retire. or surrender as scum

So my vote stays on you, and I'm not going anywhere.

lol ok

I'm also starting to get worried about AA9 because she seems to have stepped away from the game (though I know my posting rate hasn't been stellar either).

Despite me saying all that for Jennifer to take a break from mafia, I may have to agree with this^
Not necessarily a scumtell, but cause for concern.

[Metal Overlord]

Just to clarify: I hammered bulb to prove that DGB was wrong, as it so happens nobody had wanted to vote her. I mean, wtf?

I have a very good reason to have DGB out of the game, and I will be playing this card at a better time. So yes bulbazak theres no need to squirm in your grave. yet.

[Metal Overlord]

also

VOTE: Rainbowdash

I really have to discuss with kx on our viable lynch targets; TUA and keyblade were the easy scum; but we fell quite apart from there

[Metal Overlord]

DGb we would all appreciate it if you stop quad-posting

also lynching syryana sounds cool, but bulb read her as town, free pass for me

[Metal Overlord]

I really hope you are scum and not just incapable of understanding this

You are going to be lynched this game. No matter what. Your chance of surviving to endgame is 0%. Your is. Mine is. A couple others argueably is. At least I have the extreme outside chance of a Nacho-scum flip helping but you have zero. Do you really think that if I flip scum you wont be lynched tomorrow? When I flip town you wont be lynched tomorrow?

I like this one, rings true^

Well I am having a 100% chance of surviving to end game; the bullcrap days 1 and 2 with TUA essentially gave me free tickets to end game.

Syryana or Rainbow lynch for today? That is the question.


I'd like some people, specifically BBMolla and Nacho's opinion, on whether RBD or Syryana today, and

WHY?

because we(I) value their opinion!

[Metal Overlord]

If syryana's town, DGB pls get out

If syryana's scum, hoorah

then dgb get out for bussing


RBD and DGB are not surviving till end game, i don't care

jennifer is silly and should retire from mafia the case against me is non-existent and foolish,

[Metal Overlord]

Vote:DGB

Two wrongs make a super-wrong

The lynch of Bulbazak was unacceptable. Chasing away tammy was unethical. The lynch of MasterMew, I don't really care; but that you hammered a townie!

[Metal Overlord]

Syryana viewed me as scum for most of the game until I made the "IF you see me as scum, YOU are scum" post.

I was right. Syryana flipped her reads right after I did that and subsequently slot flipped scum.

Consequently I am willing to lynch Jennifer, she is at best a scum slot and at worst a nuisance; doing constant tunneling on me, posting no reads in particular and filling us her posts with extreme bad logic(or none at all!) as to why lynch MO; I am honestly very irritated by her behaviour as I am GRANTED AND DESERVED a free pass for the rest of this game as it should be.

Jennifer and DGB are my top 2 scum reads for now. DGB for removing Tammy and indirectly Arthur(since his V/La cannot be substituted by Tammy) and thus MasterMew(Tammy's slot which is 100% town); and also Bulbazak. Jennifer for being a prick.



In essence, DGB have successfully managed to rid the town of its two most powerful mutual town reads. I am the last (not so powerful but painfully obvious) mutual town read; and Jennifer is attempting to eliminate me.

Please vote one of the two ASAP.

[Metal Overlord]

For your reference:

Why is it taking so long to get a final vote on syry...

You haven't done shit since you jumped on my wagon "because you don't like how Syr(I) interprets my meta". What do you think of RBD? What do you think of the posts I've made since regarding DGB/RBD?

Also interested to see Zdenek's (or his replacement's) latest reads.

RBD's play has been all over the place today. Hell, I even had her at leaning town up until this latest weirdness. She calls me town, now she's voting me, she calls Nacho town, her reasoning on Nachoscum is bad ("(really - "well its not my scum meta either" is the response for me calling your meta?)" was all I could find). Lynching me just because "well, he's gonna get lynched anyways, whatever" is also bad. Then we have #2495, in which we have "kill Nacho, then kill Syr, then kill someone else". Uh, Nacho's now your top scumread? Didn't you have HD as your top scumread earlier? Why is one of your "middling townreads" in that kill order over HD?

I also need to go re-ISO MO. I liked #2487. Depending on what I find from them the may get replaced by Jennifer.

Back later.

Also DGB's style of quad-posting is highly irritating as well; not alignment-indicative but a good reason to clear the thread of junk-spam!

[Metal Overlord]

VOTE: Jennifer

[Metal Overlord]

Quadposter^


could vote this scum just for being irritating

[Metal Overlord]

syryana put me in her stupid scum box for the whole of her posts, she pushed it but she couldn't


neither can you or jennifer. i am unlynchable. try pushing it and meet with failure

[Metal Overlord]

wow thanks guys i am lynchable alright

/nomorearrogance


RBD I would kindly appreciate your reads on Jennifer; and for you to consider her for a lynch today. Her constant pushes on me are not only unfounded, but also scummy in that no (good) reasons are given for her constant pushing.


zdenek's name reminds me of a good friend I had in epicmafia, who had an alt named Zharaki, is it remotely possible that you're the same guy?

[Metal Overlord]

From what I recall, you were the one who pushed very hard for said townie wagon. What exactly are you trying to say?

[Metal Overlord]

arcangel, what the heck is wrong with you... you have been acting weird since the TUA flip???

[Metal Overlord]

I read you as town earlier in the game but you seem to have taken some psychedelic drugs of some sort, causing you to have impaired judgement(or you just dont care about the game, idk)

[Metal Overlord]

MS:

Anyone calling me scum or have me as a scum read still at this point of the game should either retire from mafia, or give themselves up as scum.


1. I am a 3rd counter wagon to the 2 scum wagons day 1(Fact)
2.Bulbazak, a town, read me as town(fact)
3.

end of day distancing at its finest

Except, HD, I don't bus. I don't know how Nero plays as scum (you'd have to ask him), but bussing NEVER works out in my favor, so I don't do it. So I'm delivering an ultimatum.

MO and TUA cannot be scum together.
Pick one, run with it. Who is the scum, who is the town.

(Right from the mouth of scum)





These 3 are enough to make me a 100% town, and should be communally viewed in all the eyes of the town. Read: I get a free pass for the whole game

Jennifer, if you still continue to vote me after these evidence, please get voted out. If you happen to be town, you really need to retire.


For reference:

"MO voted a town read therefore he must be scum!" - Jennifer (Opinion)

LOL

[Metal Overlord]

Three main wagons D1. Two were on scum. The third one wasn't also on scum or we're dealing with the shittiest scumteam ever.

Okay 2) is not a point, considering bulb was wrong about syryana(or jennifer was cherry picking, knowing full well syry was scum. who knows?)



Analysis reveals that TUA is incapable of pulling such a stunt. He is either telling a lie, or telling the truth. In the case of the truth, I am clear as far as clear goes. If he is lying, which seems to be rather unlikely considering his play which I will evidence below, vote me.

Besides, I hear you're bad spellers >_>

Shadup ya meany. *cry*

vote hydras

VOTE: The UnderAchivers

You know there's like 5 hydras in this game right?

but ya'll are doing it wrong. Otterhorse is the correct vote. Its my little

pony

vote:otter

horse

you guys make me sad. I haven't posted since 680.

-N

Yea we do, but guess what Rach? You guys are about to mislynch us.

Key is, and should be the days lynch. But I'm going to bed, see you guys tomorrow if we're not lynched yet.

Yet he was town a couple of pages ago.

huh

ummm. How much attention are you paying? Mastin called KBW town, I (Nero) have never called kbw town.

What specific reads are Nero/Mastin both aligned on and what are those reads?
What specific reads do Nero/Mastin disagree on and what are those reads?
What people do neither Nero or Mastin have a read on?

Bit ambiguous atm (Nero hasn't been clearly communicating), but I believe we both agree on DGB, OtterHorse, and MO. I have further scumreads on you, Jennifer, along with TheLurker; Nero hasn't made his stances on 'em clear.
KBW is the only read we disagree on; he has scum and I have town.

Pretty much every other player is some degree of town to me and either town or null to Nero. I could compile a list of 'em in strength in a bit, but right now I kinda need to eat lunch.

Stop it, geez. I'll have a post up later tonight but we ain't scum and lynching us just to "save us" from a no lynch is dumb. The point is to lynch scum so you all should be moving your votes to MO.

MOAR MO VOTES. Please don't let this hydra be mislynched on day 1 two games in a row.

This whole "you guys never had a town read on Ant" is highly fucking retarded.

You scum or just stupid HD?

vote:DGB

Mastin is fine with this.

I have a town read on the Ant slot.

LYNCH ALL FUCKING LIARS!!!

VOTE:HD

I guess that's enough.

Feel free to judge for yourself if TUA is capable of pulling a catch-22 or not in his "pick me or MO"

[Metal Overlord]

@ RBD I'm saying that TUA is too bad a player(slot) and is thus incapable of creating a situation where it causes town to lose either way.

Everypony knows that TUA himself was unsure whether to bus KBW or not; read the instances where he called KBW town yet scum at the same time.

When you call someone "town" and "scum" yet while knowing fully well his true alignment, I am not sure that qualifies as "bussing".

Mock me.

[Metal Overlord]

EBWOP: Since he is incapable of making such a situation as hypothesised in your #2742 due to lack of such skill, it will go to show that I am town.

[Metal Overlord]

I don't understand why the town has to fall apart after the successful lynches of TUA KBW, those were a great start

Now we don't even know who is town or what

[Metal Overlord]

EBWOP: Since he is incapable of making such a situation as hypothesised in your #2742 due to lack of such skill, it will go to show that I am town.

In one of your quotes he also calls TL (Syryana) scum.

So....

yeah....

Also you quote him attacking me, he attacked DGB and you seem to at least somewhat support both of our lynches.

Let me guess this is a "the tell applies where it directly benefits me" scenarios?

I did not even look before the Antilles/Marangal flip as a factor for scumhunting for you and DGB. I'm only bringing up TUA because you brought up the subject yourself about TUA bussing, I don't even consider his connections blah blah blah at all.

Supporting anybody's lynches at this point in the game is independent of anything happening before Syryana flip.

If you noticed, Both TUA and Syryana have attempted to call me scum blah blah blah, and I was almost mislynched Day 1 while there was a strong push on KBW and TUA scum. What I'm saying is that I am the threat to the mafia (at this point in time, at least) and a mislynch must be made on me ASAP in order for scum to win. Which is what happened with Bulbazak and Titan town, both were my extreme town reads. I had hammered Bulb to prove DGB wrong, and have been trying to kick her out of the game, but to no avail. The point still stands: DGB pushed for the lynch of Bulbazak and Titan's slot. Insidious? Figure out as much.

I want the town to ascertain that I am town, first, before I make my next point. For some unknown reason, now I am being viewed as scum??? I understand the previous almost-lynch was a warning to me for gloating and I acknowledge my mistake, but now I am going to make my case.

Jennifer. My number 1 arch-enemy(Bulbazak was some sort of rival, but rival are nicer than enemies)

DGB

Jennifer, a scumread has zero merit if you can't explain it. I've asked you to explain your points before, and you've refused, which is anti-town. It's hard to address a case if it's non-existant, which shouldn't be the case if you have a 100% scumread on me. So yes, explain it.

[*]Okay, midway while reading Bulbazak's ISO I actually noticed he listed Jennifer as town; however in light that "Listing MO as town is a moot point" and that he was wrong about Syryana, welp, I'll still make my case

If you disagree with someone who is right, that makes you wrong, does it not?
And if you're wrong, and you constantly push wrong ideas, that makes you a bad player, does it not?

It doesn't necessarily make one scum, it just makes them a bad player. Do you disagree with this?

The problem with that is that town does not know for certain who is scum or not. In essence, we are just making guesses. Hopefully, logical and informed guesses, but still, guesses nonetheless. We can never be absolutely certain that we are right, rather we can only be somewhat certain, and at times, almost positive, but we can never be absolutely positive, especially in an all vanilla game. Anyone who says otherwise is either cocky, an idiot, or scum, if not a combination of the three.

Now it's possible to cut down on the guesswork a bit by using "evidence" that we find to form a case (I put evidence in quotations, because it is not always as clear cut as we like to believe). This helps make our guess an informed one. If someone disagrees, they can always argue the validity of the case by addressing the points and showing why they're either good or bad. Those who do so are good players. Those who don't are bad players or scum.

All that said, your entire post is actually a Circular Argument with a tad bit of Loaded Question thrown in for good measure, both of which are logical fallacies. It's either a bold, and potentially brilliant, scum move or a really bad play by a really cocky player.

DGB is flinging accusations like they're going out of style.

I have 3 scum reads, everyone else is town or prob-town, pretty much. That's hardly "flinging accusations" but you're scum, I shouldn't argue with scum. What am I doing...

Maybe accusation is not as precise a descriptor. How about this: You're flinging OMGUS like it's going out of style. Anyone who suspects you of being scum you immediately accuse of being scum themselves: Titan, Syryana, MO, myself, and who knows who else that I'm probably forgetting about at the moment. You're essentially widening your your list of scum for when one of your mislynches goes through. Seriously, is no one else paying attention to this game?

As with DGB to Bulbazak, Jennifer is to me as a poo flinger with little evidence and justification to support her "scum read".

I request: a lynch of Jennifer; if Jen flips town, DGB along with me will be confirmed town; as parallels to the Bulbazak incident. However, if Jennifer flips scum, we can be a lot more certain that DGB is along the final scum member.

Can you see my logic?

[Metal Overlord]

EBWOP: Since he is incapable of making such a situation as hypothesised in your #2742 due to lack of such skill, it will go to show that I am town.

In one of your quotes he also calls TL (Syryana) scum.

So....

yeah....

Also you quote him attacking me, he attacked DGB and you seem to at least somewhat support both of our lynches.

Let me guess this is a "the tell applies where it directly benefits me" scenarios?

I did not even look before the Antilles/Marangal flip as a factor for scumhunting for you and DGB. I'm only bringing up TUA because you brought up the subject yourself about TUA bussing, I don't even consider his connections blah blah blah at all.

Supporting anybody's lynches at this point in the game is independent of anything happening before Syryana flip.

If you noticed, Both TUA and Syryana have attempted to call me scum blah blah blah, and I was almost mislynched Day 1 while there was a strong push on KBW and TUA scum. What I'm saying is that I am the threat to the mafia (at this point in time, at least) and a mislynch must be made on me ASAP in order for scum to win. Which is what happened with Bulbazak and Titan town, both were my extreme town reads. I had hammered Bulb to prove DGB wrong, and have been trying to kick her out of the game, but to no avail. The point still stands: DGB pushed for the lynch of Bulbazak and Titan's slot. Insidious? Figure out as much.

I want the town to ascertain that I am town, first, before I make my next point. For some unknown reason, now I am being viewed as scum??? I understand the previous almost-lynch was a warning to me for gloating and I acknowledge my mistake, but now I am going to make my case.

Jennifer. My number 1 arch-enemy(Bulbazak was some sort of rival, but rival are nicer than enemies)

DGB

Jennifer, a scumread has zero merit if you can't explain it. I've asked you to explain your points before, and you've refused, which is anti-town. It's hard to address a case if it's non-existant, which shouldn't be the case if you have a 100% scumread on me. So yes, explain it.

[*]Okay, midway while reading Bulbazak's ISO I actually noticed he listed Jennifer as town; however in light that "Listing MO as town is a moot point" and that he was wrong about Syryana, welp, I'll still make my case

If you disagree with someone who is right, that makes you wrong, does it not?
And if you're wrong, and you constantly push wrong ideas, that makes you a bad player, does it not?

It doesn't necessarily make one scum, it just makes them a bad player. Do you disagree with this?

The problem with that is that town does not know for certain who is scum or not. In essence, we are just making guesses. Hopefully, logical and informed guesses, but still, guesses nonetheless. We can never be absolutely certain that we are right, rather we can only be somewhat certain, and at times, almost positive, but we can never be absolutely positive, especially in an all vanilla game. Anyone who says otherwise is either cocky, an idiot, or scum, if not a combination of the three.

Now it's possible to cut down on the guesswork a bit by using "evidence" that we find to form a case (I put evidence in quotations, because it is not always as clear cut as we like to believe). This helps make our guess an informed one. If someone disagrees, they can always argue the validity of the case by addressing the points and showing why they're either good or bad. Those who do so are good players. Those who don't are bad players or scum.

All that said, your entire post is actually a Circular Argument with a tad bit of Loaded Question thrown in for good measure, both of which are logical fallacies. It's either a bold, and potentially brilliant, scum move or a really bad play by a really cocky player.

DGB is flinging accusations like they're going out of style.

I have 3 scum reads, everyone else is town or prob-town, pretty much. That's hardly "flinging accusations" but you're scum, I shouldn't argue with scum. What am I doing...

Maybe accusation is not as precise a descriptor. How about this: You're flinging OMGUS like it's going out of style. Anyone who suspects you of being scum you immediately accuse of being scum themselves: Titan, Syryana, MO, myself, and who knows who else that I'm probably forgetting about at the moment. You're essentially widening your your list of scum for when one of your mislynches goes through. Seriously, is no one else paying attention to this game?

As with DGB to Bulbazak, Jennifer is to me as a poo flinger with little evidence and justification to support her "scum read".

I request: a lynch of Jennifer; if Jen flips town, DGB along with me will be confirmed town; as parallels to the Bulbazak incident. However, if Jennifer flips scum, we can be a lot more certain that DGB is along the final scum member.

Can you see my logic?

[Metal Overlord]

Should I go back and again reference the games where I realized I got put into a doomed slot and my first response to realizing I was doomed was extremely hard bussing a partner so they would get written off as town for a long period of time?

Also if we are saying you are town for Syryana attacking you, how is DGB scum if Jen is scum? Remember the part where Syryana called DGB scum? Or is that just another page from the "only if convinent to me" useage of tells?

Who are you referring to in the first example, I don't think its TUA because TUA did not replace into a doomed slot at all.
If you are talking about Jennifer, then you must acknowledge that Jennifer is scum. Else I have no idea who you are talking about.


I can explain the second example. Remember when DGB was going extreme offensive on Bulbazak which Bulb described as flinging poo? Bulb was town. I claim that Jennifer is flinging extreme poo onto me, and I know from my perspective that I am town; which draws parallels to the Bulbazak flip. If the pooflingers are town, they are. If pooflinging happens to be the scum's method of offense in this game, it will apply to both DGB and Jennifer. We just need to find out if pooflinging in this case happens to be towntell or scumtell.

Also Syryana could just be distancing/bussing

I reread Syryana's ISO, and your point stands. I honestly do not know what Syryana was trying to do; DGB may also be town, I really don't know. Maybe its just because I'm mad at her for kicking out Bulbazak and Titan. Which is why I revised my main target from DGB and Jennifer to just Jennifer as of the moment. Less risk, more reward.

[Metal Overlord]

And, yeah. Right now, looks like a MO-DGB-Lurker-Jennifer scumteam.

We can get that MO lynch.

He picked three good town reads and Lurker.

If TUA is scum, I want to lynch Lurker next.

Actually, I'm probably wrong because of this.

Also, this is extra powerful evidence, and I think I recall that Lurker = Syryana.
However, that number may be two instead of three -- we cannot be sure about Klick's predictions, however accurate

[Metal Overlord]

The last mafia, you are outnumbered, outsmarted and outplayed.

Surrender now, or face the full horror of the void.

Oh, and uh, lose.


DGB can be kept in the town; but please note she is a hazard at 3-way(if we ever get to 3-way) so DGB is not allowed at 3way.

Suggesting me/molla/nacho 2 of us at 3way, basically the extreme-towns

"just plannin for the future'

meanwhile


VOTE: ArcAngel9

[Metal Overlord]

Also I was right, wasn't I?

The Jennifer-scum flinging extra poo onto me trying to lynch an extra-extra-mutual-town


gG

[Metal Overlord]

just on my phone

lynch DGB once i flip town.

i'll be back to post my case later

just iso me in the meantime

[Metal Overlord]

As with DGB to Bulbazak, Jennifer is to me as a poo flinger with little evidence and justification to support her "scum read".

I request: a lynch of Jennifer; if Jen flips town, DGB along with me will be confirmed town; as parallels to the Bulbazak incident. However, if Jennifer flips scum, we can be a lot more certain that DGB is along the final scum member.

Can you see my logic?

This is what I am going to argue about.

Point 1

Jennifer was extreme pushing for a mislynch on me; meanwhile I was pushing for a lynch on her. Unless you guys think that it is possible that both of us are bussing each other at same time, (lol), it is unlikely that I will be in a scum team with her.

Anyway, please draw parallels to the Bulbazak lynch. Bulbazak was a powerful townie(self proclaimed "good scumhunter"). Unfortunately, he was mislynched (DGB pushed the lynch, VERY VERY HARD) before DGB proceeded to bus Syryana. In parallel, I also proclaim myself "good scumhunter" previously, with most of the town having a town read on me prior to this incident; once again similar as to Bulbazak. Bulbtown was pushed ASAP with relentless force by DGB, Jennifer pushed me with relentless force as well. Upon a flipcheck, Jennifer flips scum. This could be one of the prime mafia's method to kick out extreme townreads(Titan!), and thank goodness you followed my push which was right.

Point 2

I don't think many of you noticed, but DGB always overreacts and goes quite crazy(with OMGUS!) whenever I said she was "scum" <reaction test>, while afterwards voting me, spams bullshit about me being scum, then votes me. 1 - 2 pages later when I retract my vote, she retracts hers too.

I found this out by accident, when I accidentally put a typo error(genuine error!) saying Bulb and DGB was scum(i meant to say town).

My post:

MS: Hi. KX hasn't popped in for a bit and I was waiting for him to pop in but he didn't, so I'll just pop in for a bit

@ RBD: Kx believes that HD is town. KX's views can be trusted (by me, at least), and he can substantiate this because he has played multiple games already with HD in the past. Basically, Kx metas HD to be town; as of what he last told me. Therefore I will take his word for it and believe he is town. You should too. Unless KX changes his mind.


@ Syryana lynch: I actually find the points against it quite satisfying and viable. However, Syryana has actually rebutted the points against her and her argument is sound, as well. I would have liked a syryana lynch, but the defense she made was quite good and I would put it on hold. I want to see how this argument turns out.

@Bulbazak vs DGB: For once, I actually saw DGB post at least an adequate argument against bulbazak. It was good, and unfortunately I can't say Bulbazak's response "misrep" wasn't up to par for once. I do not understand Bulb's tunneling on her for the self-vote; if I recall correctly Bulb himself was attacked for his own RVS self-vote. Granted, I did see Bulb's self vote as "townier" than the one DGB did, but I suppose I should not take this point into consideration when condemning DGB.

regarding the part where Bulb asks for evidence but DGB doesn't respond, I find it a null tell. Players are less willing to give their scum tells their reasoning; it is a waste of their time and just a futile my-word-versus-your-word scuffle.

"Why aren't you voting DGB, Bulb?" and "IF you vote for DGB I will vote for myself" are just totally stupid points, in my opinion, and is just a case of DGB using AtE which although I may not necessarily find scum, I find it rather annoying.

I believe both DGB and Bulbazak are scum. DGB has not noticably scumslipped, in my book, as of yet.

(I'm replacing out because I'm playing my last game and I want to only be playing that game right now, to answer that, Zdenek.)

Thanks, now I'll know your alignment here, from your flip in another game.

I HATE HATE HATE when people make allusions to ongoing, NO MATTER HOW INDIRECT they THINK these allusions are.

AGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAh

YOU are going to make me

SET
YOUR
TOES
ON
FIRE

What the hell. DrippingGoofballs, I demand you stop this idiocracy or I will change my opinion and let myself vote you.



However I am very very fine with lynching Antilles.

Reactions(5 posts in a row by DGB):

I believe both DGB and Bulbazak are scum.

Great! I came in the game, immediately proceeded to avoid your wagon, bus my other buddy KBW, then get distracted by even bigger bus of TUA, then bus'ed myself in frustration, and now I'm bus'ing Bulbazak!

Zoom! Zoom! Beep! Beep!

Greyhound bus #4 coming through and breaking the sound barrier.

Bulbazak will flip scum, that's going to be 3 scumlynches in a row, and I think I know who to bus next. It's going to be a surprise. Sheep me!

dgb shut up or else I may consider lynching you

those posts are getting irritating

MS: Hi. KX hasn't popped in for a bit and I was waiting for him to pop in but he didn't, so I'll just pop in for a bit

@ RBD: Kx believes that HD is town. KX's views can be trusted (by me, at least), and he can substantiate this because he has played multiple games already with HD in the past. Basically, Kx metas HD to be town; as of what he last told me. Therefore I will take his word for it and believe he is town. You should too. Unless KX changes his mind.


@ Syryana lynch: I actually find the points against it quite satisfying and viable. However, Syryana has actually rebutted the points against her and her argument is sound, as well. I would have liked a syryana lynch, but the defense she made was quite good and I would put it on hold. I want to see how this argument turns out.

@Bulbazak vs DGB: For once, I actually saw DGB post at least an adequate argument against bulbazak. It was good, and unfortunately I can't say Bulbazak's response "misrep" wasn't up to par for once. I do not understand Bulb's tunneling on her for the self-vote; if I recall correctly Bulb himself was attacked for his own RVS self-vote. Granted, I did see Bulb's self vote as "townier" than the one DGB did, but I suppose I should not take this point into consideration when condemning DGB.

regarding the part where Bulb asks for evidence but DGB doesn't respond, I find it a null tell. Players are less willing to give their scum tells their reasoning; it is a waste of their time and just a futile my-word-versus-your-word scuffle.

"Why aren't you voting DGB, Bulb?" and "IF you vote for DGB I will vote for myself" are just totally stupid points, in my opinion, and is just a case of DGB using AtE which although I may not necessarily find scum, I find it rather annoying.

I believe both

DGB

and Bulbazak are

scum

. DGB has not noticably scumslipped, in my book, as of yet.

(I'm replacing out because I'm playing my last game and I want to only be playing that game right now, to answer that, Zdenek.)

Thanks, now I'll know your alignment here, from your flip in another game.

I HATE HATE HATE when people make allusions to ongoing, NO MATTER HOW INDIRECT they THINK these allusions are.

AGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAh

YOU are going to make me

SET
YOUR
TOES
ON
FIRE

What the hell. DrippingGoofballs, I demand you stop this idiocracy or

I will

change my opinion

and let myself vote you.

However I am very very fine with lynching Antilles.

Hey kids

Notice something interesting?

Guys, I'm sorry, I apologize. You guys were right, and I was wrong. But at least now I see the error of my ways.

MetalOverlord is, indeed, scum. I'm very sorry for derailing his wagon.

==============================

Twice MO threatens to vote me for behavioral quirks.

The first threat is telling me to shut up because of behavioral quirk of channeling Marvin the depressed robot.
The second is demanding that I stop complaining about other players mentioning ongoings under threat of his vote.

Meanwhile, his his latest post he calls me scum (scum that has yet to scumslip!), and says he will CHANGE HIS MIND about me (being scum or town, he can't make up his mind which way he wants the wind to blow) and vote me. I'm scum but I'm town, I'm scum that hasn't slipped, I'm a policy lynch, blah blah blah he can't keep his story straight

ergo

he's scum.

Then, look at his opinion of Syryana. Points are good! But aw, they have been rebutted. He would have liked to have bus'ed Syryana! But his rebuttal is good.

Then look at his opinion of Bulbazak. I made a good argument against him, his response not so good, null tells all around, Bulbazak's case against me is crap. Yet, we're both scum... presumably bus'ing?

MO is either scum, or on crack. Gonna say scum.

Well, could this be an isolated incident?

Apparently not. I found DGB's reaction interesteing, so I decided to test that again in the next few days

This is intentional:

MS:
Okay so I talked to KX today and apparently he was unwell so we couldn't discuss much. He has given me his top 3 scumreads and townreads which I will keep secret for now. I have instructed him to keep constant tabs on HD because we all agree he is acting weird, but as Kx has a good meta knowledge of HD I believe he is reliable. As of now, KX isn't seeing HD as scum yet so RBD can calm down, we'll get to him if KX's radar pings.



As of now, under Kx's reads.

VOTE: DGB

he said so

Reaction(6 posts, this time!)

KX here

, wanted to wait for Metal before I posted much more, but looks like I can't. I'm finding DGB highly town

Just like TUA, MO is using hydra dissonance to justify shit votes.

dgb shut up or else I may consider lynching you

those posts are getting irritating

Looking for shit reasons to vote a town read.

What the hell. DrippingGoofballs, I demand you stop this idiocracy or I will change my opinion and let myself vote you.

Inventing more shit reasons to vote a town read.

I believe both DGB and Bulbazak are not scum.

Exploiting hydra dissonance to vote a town read.

What did KX think of MM?

MO's buddy coaching to whip up the Marangal mislynch.

Goading

Why are you so defensive, DGB?

Why can't you trust MS that he will make the right choice?


and why are you flipping over one placeholder vote



@Bulb, he finds MM townie, specifically a null-town read

With Bulbazak and MO now confscum, that means that I must be wrong about one of my other scum reads, namely, Titan & Syryana. One of them ought to be town.

and why are you flipping over one placeholder vote

There is no such thing as a "placeholder vote," scum.

Bulb's comment:

DGB is flinging accusations like they're going out of style. I'm going to check the vote count again and think about this. DGB is definitely the stronger scum read, but the MM wagon may be in the town's best interest, since it would help create a united front. Also, MM is a scum read as well, so there's that.

After I retracted the fakevote:

DGB is flinging accusations like they're going out of style.

I have 3 scum reads, everyone else is town or prob-town, pretty much. That's hardly "flinging accusations" but you're scum, I shouldn't argue with scum. What am I doing...

Hmm this is a good post, exactly the post which kx said would make bulbazak scum and dgb town

Now this is the exact dgb post that kx said to look out for and bulb is scum

Vote:

bulbazak

Dgb I think you're right and town

Part 2 TO be continued!

[Metal Overlord]

Okay Part 2 of the "Why DGB is final scum" wallpost.

Lets continue where we left off...

After my retract on DGB, DGB quickly removed her vote on me and returned it onto Bulbazak.

Votecount 3.12:

DrippingGoofball - Syryana, Titan
Bulbazak - arcangel, DrippingGoofball, zdenek
Syryana - Human Destroyer, Jennifer, DCLXVI, Metal Overlord
Ms. Marangal- Antilles, Bulbazak, BBmolla, Rainbowdash
Jennifer - Ms. Marangal

Not Voting - DCLXVI, Klick

With 15 alive it takes 8 to lynch and to no-lynch.

The Deadline is in (expired on 2013-05-05 00:37:43) or by 11: 40 PM on May 4th, 2013.

Searching for a replacement for Klick.

Jennifer is V/LA until Monday.
Bulbazak is V/LA until Tuesday
The metal Sonic head is V/LA from Monday April 29th to May 6th.

Game is currently suspended for the time being. The game will be resumed once all is resolved.

Please note the quickness of the unvote; and the post # of the votes.

Antilles and Ms. Marangal, Vanila Townies turned Neutral Survivors, "Ritually cleansed" (aka modkilled) Day 3.

TOWNIES. The both of them.

DID I NOT SAY SO?

In other news, scum is:

Bulbazak
and 2 out of Rainbowdash, Titan, and Syryana.

VOTE: Bulbazak

MO is not in here! Too flimsy of a "scum read"?

I thought this reaction from DGB was consistent with the previous vote, but just to be sure, I tried this <reaction test> again. With three times consistent reaction, you can feel that the results are reliable. (On second thought, this third reaction test was more recent than I thought. Hmm, I thought I had posted that earlier)

Vote:DGB

Two wrongs make a super-wrong

The lynch of Bulbazak was unacceptable. Chasing away tammy was unethical. The lynch of MasterMew, I don't really care; but that you hammered a townie!

Reaction:

Lynches I would consider today:

MasterMew/Nacho

>>> ONLY ONE is scum. If MMew is scum, Nacho would be unlikely to bus at this point. If MMew is town, Nacho is very likely scum. This being said, with Syryana accusing me of single-handedly trying to discredit "universal town-read" Titan by goading her to quit means that MasterMew is probscum, and Nacho unlikely scum.

VOTE: Nacho

I could vote MO because his cricket posting style is very irritating to me and he wants to vote me for dubious reasons when I should get a free pass to endgame. Also, Syryana had a scum read on MO, and never, ever pushed it.

Scum is between Nacho & MO.

Choo! Choo!

VOTE: MO

As we can see, DGB elicits an extremely OMGUS reaction when voted(I tested this twice, first one was discovery)

That is the end of

Point 2.

I still have Point 3 and 4

To be continued

[Metal Overlord]

Point 3:

The relentless pushing of extreme-town-reads.


I find this hard to describe, but generally victims of DGB's propaganda primarily feel agitated, angry and also flabbergasted.

I will use an extremely relevant example.

Case 1

DGB, Please kill yourself for being so worthless!!!!!!!
I am not playing another game with you...

Town is winning this game anywayz!!!!

Yeah then why are you having a fit right now?

becuz i am done with you derp play and pushing mis lynches in every game i play.
this is just horrible..and i am not enjoying anymore.

The reaction to DGB when he is super-town read.

Explanation for this behaviour is best summed up by Bulbazak, the second victim of DGB's propaganda(Reverse Choronological order)

@RBD: DBG has been doing this since at least d2. She started with Titan, moved to me, and has started to move outward. No one is seeing it, because it hasn't happened to them yet. She's largely ignores you while simultaneously calling you scum.

DGB is flinging accusations like they're going out of style. I'm going to check the vote count again and think about this. DGB is definitely the stronger scum read, but the MM wagon may be in the town's best interest, since it would help create a united front. Also, MM is a scum read as well, so there's that.

DGB is flinging accusations like they're going out of style.

I have 3 scum reads, everyone else is town or prob-town, pretty much. That's hardly "flinging accusations" but you're scum, I shouldn't argue with scum. What am I doing...

Maybe accusation is not as precise a descriptor. How about this: You're flinging OMGUS like it's going out of style. Anyone who suspects you of being scum you immediately accuse of being scum themselves: Titan, Syryana, MO, myself, and who knows who else that I'm probably forgetting about at the moment. You're essentially widening your your list of scum for when one of your mislynches goes through. Seriously, is no one else paying attention to this game?

Finally, Tammy.

TOWN - I AM SERIOUS, DO NOT LET DGB GET TO LYLO. DO NOT DO IT.

Now i've said my piece. Feel free to lynch me. I'm letting arthur take over from here if he's still around. I'm done.

I'd probably be fine with joining zdenek on satan kitty.

OK! That's good.

So DC-Satan is now conf-town, and Titan is back in the 100% scum pile.

Just fucking vote me and lynch me. I can't take it. I just really can't take it. If you're just going to continue to be a disruptive distracting troll and flaunt that you are not actually looking for scum and the rest of the damn town is going to let you do it, I don't want to play with you. I just don't.

You've been miserable and rude and distractive since you replaced in. I've tried to be respectful after you went haywire because I dared to ask you to explain reads and replaced out of Castle Zar, but I just can't take your attitude.

And you know what, it's probably indicative that you are indeed scum. Because I remember really enjoying playing with you in Ladies Night.

Arcangel, You have been another unfortunate target of DGB-Mislynch-Push.

Consistent play by DGB, pushing for the lynch of town-reads like some crazy mad lady, this phenomenon has also been displayed 3 times consistently, showing that the actions of DGB are reliable.

Tammy and Bulb flipped town. It is with certainty that Arcangel will flip town as well.





Point 4 right up

[Metal Overlord]

Last but not least, Point 4 of why DGB is scum.

But first, you must understand this about scum.

As we know, scum players' wincon is to cause the mislynch of as many town players as possible.

But as we can see, this is not happening, Scum players have continuously bussed each other, against their wincon. The reason for this? Its for one of the final scum players to cash in on all this town cred; so that easy mislynches can be followed on in the later part of the game.

However!

BUS TERMINAL requires that the town be aware of the whole issue in the first place; what's Bus Terminal when nobody knows/reads/doesn't care about it?


This is the final part of the DGB plan. BUS TERMINAL must be clear for all to see, so that the bussing "phenomenon" is noticed by the town and they see a "pattern".

And it is no other than DGB to point out Bus terminal, repeat it in all our faces, and cash in on the town cred.



Watch the glorious DGB rub this in all our faces:

not bussing there is extremely dangerous

Mmmmmmmmmm

Except *I think* that their strategy was to bus one scumpal Day 1 for town cred, and distance from all the others as insurance for the future.

I don't think they wanted TUA to hang on Day 2.

You suddenly put me back in the scumlight after saying I'm probable town, then confirmed town, now I'm 1/4 to be scum

I mean, I get it, it's just annoying cause I can all too easily see this town suddenly randomly lynching all it's "confirmed towns" and losing.

I couldn't eliminate you with the wagon analysis, is all. I still said you're a town read. And I said that the scum's MO (pun?) is bus-bus-bus, and that TUA hadn't uttered your name.

Rub it in all our damned faces!

I haven't looked at TUA vs. BBmolla because he's a town read of mine but I will in a moment.

I think with the benefit of hindsight the scum strategy was "BUS TERMINAL." They bus'ed each other relentlessly; I think they calculated that a Day 1 scum lynch would give them a long-distance lines of town cred.

TUA started out calling Klick scum, then town >>> but only after HD called Klick HOLY-TOWN so maybe he decided to give that scumpal a break.

TUA also said: "I can wagon DGB. DGB, Jennifer, MO, and TheLurker" I'm town, TheLurker(Syryana?) is dead scum, and Jennifer is dead scum. Gonna say that MO might have been bus'ed here for most glorious TOWN CRED units ($TC)

A few posts later, TUA's scums are "MO, Klick, and Key."

The TUA had a scumpiphany, and declared an emergency KBW-town wagon derailment, to switch to MO. I consider it not impossible that he switched from one buddy to another.

Witness MO's later insistence on cashing in that $TC, and his lack of scumhunting doesn't help.

With AA9, TUA is rather gentle, calls her play bad, calls her scum and cancels the scum read on a "misunderstanding" and drops it.

I'd like to lynch MO after all.

Bus fucking terminal. The grand plan all along. Nobody gave a shit, so DGB had to rub it in all our faces SO THAT we all "give a damn"

That is the end of my epic case against DGB.

Please feel free to lynch me, but when I flip town, take these words to heart and lynch that final scum.

Don't you find it coincidential that "the two best scumhunter team"(me and bulb) have been successfully mislynched, all credit goes to DGB pushing

VOTE: Dripping GoofBalls

[Metal Overlord]

Um, Yeah, KX back again, can't post anything lengthy atm, but want to say that, assuming we aren't lynched, I should be able to post more soon. And for the most recent comment by Nacho, isn't that basically the point? Though Metal isn't communicating this well, I think that he means is ff you can lynch us on those ground, then you should be able to lynch DGB over them as well. For my own thoughts, I really haven't been able to read things over well, so I only know the basics. For DGB, I'm really not sure, since as mentioned, they're in a similar situation to us, which gives me doubt. It seems like one of those situations that you'd never expect to happen, but considering this set-up, just might. Based on the vows to not let them be one of the last two though, seems like a bad strategy for them to be the last scum. HD's lack of comment, as best I can tell, is something disturbing, and I'd like to know more from him, I know he can do better etc. RBD remains town as best I can tell, more because nothing they've done changes my read then something specific recently. The whole AA fake hammer actually makes me suspicious of her, literally three posts before her last she mentioned a fake vote, which could have got her thinking about such things, and then for her last words, she just rages instead of doing something helpful. I guess she can make the case that she outlined her thoughts before, but still. Reaction when (if) she comes back will probably be important. For everybody else, nothing has really stuck out at this point, will get to if I have time.

[Metal Overlord]

Remember to vote DGB!

Thanks!

VOTE: MO

[Metal Overlord]

No I am not scum

I believe you are

[Metal Overlord]

It is still twilight, Maybe I should have a plan for if the small chance DGb is not mafia


Top 3 scum
DGB > HD > BBMolla

cant go wrong

[Metal Overlord]

Arcangel, RBD is town

Nacho is most likely town

Thats all I guess

[Metal Overlord]

Wait wtf HD, you mean you decided to hammer me and metal as town, and you thought that plus the rest of what you did was good town play . . . I honestly expected better from you. Kinda feels like a cheep win seeing as how I far from put my all into the game, but seeing what the scum situation was like, seems like it would have been a cheap win no matter what. Anyway, wanted to once again apologize to bulba for lynching them, and specific shout out to DGB, who made the game quite fun!

[Metal Overlord]

MS:

Lol KX you never really did iso HD, did you? If you did based on your current meta you would've found something fishy ;3

Good game everyone, DGB was very fun for discussion but her extremely big town mislynches(basically the only player who pushed for any mislynch in the game) is just >.>

Nachomama rocks

Voided is a great mod, sorry for that bad bah post

The Antilles and MM modkill was actually surprising, how many of you guys thought that one or both of them were scum prior to the bet?(and realised you were wrong?) I was one of them