Mafia 61: No Theme - Game over!

[Mastermind of Sin]

Original Roll String: 1d21

1 21-Sided Dice: (1) = 1

[Mastermind of Sin]

vote: Scotmany

[Mastermind of Sin]

Then again getting into a scrap with Twito makes sence.

We're both equally guilty of that, and it wasn't much of a scrap either.

Dice Roll:
Original Roll String: 1d21
1 21-Sided Dice Results: 16

I'd like to nominate this for most useless post of the game so far and that's saying a lot.

Seriously though, we're 5 pages into the thread and that was your first post unless I'm much mistaken. Why random vote without giving us any input whatsoever?

Umm, because it's

my first post?

Duh. 5 pages isn't very far, and I open 99% of my games with the dice roll, unless I'm replacing into a game. I'm not about to change that any time soon.

[Mastermind of Sin]

FOS: Battle Mage, Mastermind of Sin, and blahgo

I'd rather not have to go back and quote what the two of them said that sounds scummy to me. I'm lazy. I really dislike random votes after the first page or two, or three.

In any case, I'll

Unvote: Battle Mage, and Vote: blahgo

. For the worst logic in their voting of the three.

You're way to used to mini/newbie games. Grow up and learn.

[Mastermind of Sin]

RAndom voting this late = Scum.

unvote: IH
Vote: MOS

Stop reaching, plz. Anyone who actually bothered to do their homework or that has been in even one game with me before would know that I always open with a dice roll, regardless of alignment. The fact that it wasn't in the first two pages is merely an indication that I was too busy to notice this game had started, which is also evidenced by the fact that I've been trying to catch up in all of my games since life has been hectic lately. So seriously, think before you vote next time.

[Mastermind of Sin]

RAndom voting this late = Scum.

unvote: IH
Vote: MOS

Stop reaching, plz. Anyone who actually bothered to do their homework or that has been in even one game with me before would know that I always open with a dice roll, regardless of alignment. The fact that it wasn't in the first two pages is merely an indication that I was too busy to notice this game had started, which is also evidenced by the fact that I've been trying to catch up in all of my games since life has been hectic lately. So seriously, think before you vote next time.

Also, consider that there are many thinks going on in the game and many people who are acting scummy. You don't always need to use a dice roll.

Why don't you tell me who is acting scummy instead of attacking people over a freaking dice roll. This is exactly why I DO use the dice roll, because I am sick and tired of people calling me scum for making a random vote that's based off anything, even if I just pointed at a name and typed it up. The dice function is completely random, so there is no indication of alignment when the vote is cast. I hadn't even read the thread yet.

[Mastermind of Sin]

FOS: Battle Mage, Mastermind of Sin, and blahgo

I'd rather not have to go back and quote what the two of them said that sounds scummy to me. I'm lazy. I really dislike random votes after the first page or two, or three.

In any case, I'll

Unvote: Battle Mage, and Vote: blahgo

. For the worst logic in their voting of the three.

You're way to used to mini/newbie games. Grow up and learn.

The funny thing is that I have never played either a mini-game or a newbie game.

That's not funny, it just shows your noobness.

Heh. This is my 7th game and all of them have had at least 19 players.

Wizardcat had the entire mafia pinned to the every last 6 of you before the end of DAY 1

Uh, who cares? 7 games isn't all that much. I've played in nearly 100 on mafiascum alone, if you count ongoing games. Clearly you haven't had a lot of experience with mafia if you think anything important is going to happen in the first 5 pages.

*

If anything, you should be thanking me for somehow sparking discussion with a random vote instead of FOSing me for it.


[size=0]Disclaimer: There are certain games that are built to have things happen in the first five pages. This is a rough generalization.[/size]

[Mastermind of Sin]

Why don't you tell me who is acting scummy instead of attacking people over a freaking dice roll.

blahgo is. You should generally decide that on your own, though...

I merely asked that in response to the claim that several people were acting scummy. I find it hard to believe that there can be so many true suspects that early in the game, so I pushed him to back up his claim. Note that he has yet to respond to that part of my post.

This is exactly why I DO use the dice roll, because I am sick and tired of people calling me scum for making a random vote that's based off anything, even if I just pointed at a name and typed it up. The dice function is completely random, so there is no indication of alignment when the vote is cast.

The problem isn't your reason for random voting, the problem is you random voted

at all

. On page 5, that's completely useless.

I'm merely keeping with tradition . I agree that it was completely useless. In fact, I'll take it one step further and assert that random voting in and of itself is completely useless, regardless of when it happens. However, nearly everyone does it. Does that mean we are all scum?

I hadn't even read the thread yet.

If you just didn't have the time but wanted to let us know you were in the game, why random vote intead of just posting "I'm here, will read when I have the time"?

If you didn't read the first 5 pages on general principle, well, shame on you.

Because I always open games with a dice roll vote, and it serves the same purpose as saying that I'm here, because posting at all says I'm here.

Uh, who cares? 7 games isn't all that much. I've played in nearly 100 on mafiascum alone, if you count ongoing games. Clearly you haven't had a lot of experience with mafia if you think anything important is going to happen in the first 5 pages.

I don't much care for these "whose got the bigger dick" arguments. There's been tons if important stuff going on in those pages, and saying otherwise without even bothering to read them is just stupid.

I don't care for them either, nor was that my point. I was merely showing him that bragging about 7 games doesn't mean much among the players in this game, so he shouldn't bother.

If anything, you should be thanking me for somehow sparking discussion with a random vote instead of FOSing me for it.

That's quite a twisted way to look on things. The

only

reason your random vote sparked discussion is that it's worthy of a FOS...

Please fine-tune your sarcasm-meter. It was subtle, I know.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I merely asked that in response to the claim that several people were acting scummy. I find it hard to believe that there can be so many true suspects that early in the game, so I pushed him to back up his claim. Note that he has yet to respond to that part of my post.

Regardless, you still haven't chosen to share with us who do you cosider suspicious, nor have you given any indication of reading the first 5 pages. Any reson for that?

I hardly have time to find someone suspicious when the game is being cluttered by pointless attacks on me.

I'm merely keeping with tradition . I agree that it was completely useless. In fact, I'll take it one step further and assert that random voting in and of itself is completely useless, regardless of when it happens. However, nearly everyone does it. Does that mean we are all scum?

Random voting early in the game is a good way to get some discussion going, since it can lead to jokewagons and stuff. There's also nothing better to do. Random votes on page 5 are completely and utterly useless, and while I realize you were trying to keep with tradition you really should've placed your vote on someone you actually consider suspicious right now.

I already explained that I highly doubted anyone was going to do something truly voteworthy in a mere 5 pages, and if they had, I could just

change my vote

. Fascinating concept, I know.

Because I always open games with a dice roll vote, and it serves the same purpose as saying that I'm here, because posting at all says I'm here.

Aren't you inclined to say a bit more than that when entering the game at page 5, though?

Nope.

[Mastermind of Sin]

unvote, vote: Raging Rabbit

I'm starting to get the feeling that you are purposely trying to get the game off track, first by your pointless attack on me, then with these more recent posts that have nothing to do with this game at all.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I'm starting to get the feeling that you are purposely trying to get the game off track, first by your pointless attack on me

Pointless? How so? It's not like I'm pushing for your lynch or anything, I'm just pointing out a play I consider useless.

then with these more recent posts that have nothing to do with this game at all.

Now lets get back to actually playing the game.

???

You have posted more distracting posts since then, so you clearly weren't sincere.

Also,

FoS: Fircoal, Cheesefan

They are also both guilty of this.

[Mastermind of Sin]

indeed it does.

[Mastermind of Sin]

RR, I'm also voting you for being the most vocal about attacking me for my dice roll, which was a really dumb and scummy attack.

[Mastermind of Sin]

It was a pretty dumb and pretty scummy play, and I feel I explained myself enough on it. Never voted you or pushed for your lynch, though.

I highly disagree that it was either dumb OR scummy, and attacking someone without actually voting is a perfect way for scum to build a wagon and seem blameless later on.

[Mastermind of Sin]

<3 The Dragon Reborn

[Mastermind of Sin]

unvote

, for now.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I agree with TheJiveMachine. While I'm not going to wipe Kison's slate clean, I'm not going to run up a replacement on Day 1, when it's possible RR was just a really bad townie that couldn't cope with pressure.

[Mastermind of Sin]

blahgo needs to be replaced, I think.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Battle Mage, please reference me to another game where RR has been run up for anything similar to this.

Also,

Hand of Stupidity: Battle Mage

You FoSed me on craplogic. You can't preemtively assume that I'm sticking up for scum when you haven't yet proven that said person I am "sticking up for" is scum. In addition, I fail to see how I am "sticking up for scum". Further, why are you singling me out, because if what I'm doing qualifies as "sticking up for someone", then you missed out on FoSing a lot of people.

You've got a lot of explaining to do, BM.

[Mastermind of Sin]

EDWOP:

You can't use that argument as evidence against me when you are assuming the basis of your entire argument, and haven't actually proven it. You just said that "If Kison is scum, then MoS is sticking up for scum." However, the first part of this proposition is false, insofar as we don't know if he's scum or not. Therefore, while the proposition on the whole is automatically true by virtue of the first part being false, that doesn't prove the second part of the proposition to be true.

Pwned by discrete math. Oh yeah!

[Mastermind of Sin]

his was the most recent example at the time. If i remember correctly, i only FOSed him. If i was going to place a vote on it, i would obviously take other players actions into account.
BM

That's not an acceptable explanation. Even if you are not voting me, you are trying to cast suspicion upon myself and myself alone by FoSing me and excluding everyone else. This makes me think that you have some sort of agenda, and the only people that would have an agenda are, well, scum.

vote: BM

[Mastermind of Sin]

I'll take an FoS seriously if it's made using craplogic while seemingly trying to raise suspicion on someone just to raise suspicion on them, as opposed to being a well-thought out FoS that actually shows that the person is trying to find scum. You don't look like you're trying to find scum. You look like you're trying to spread suspicion wherever possible. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if you were scumbuddies with Kison and tried to throw him under the bus when you saw that others were suspicious of him, and now you're trying to keep throwing him under the bus and link me to him using craplogic so that when you get him lynched, I'll get lynched the next day and you'll still look good because you led the lynch on a scum. That's what it looks like from here.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Umm, I'm not even trying to lynch Kison...

[Mastermind of Sin]

Welcome back.

[Mastermind of Sin]

BM is clear being too linear

[Mastermind of Sin]

*clearly

[Mastermind of Sin]

What are your parameters for that statement, Kison?

[Mastermind of Sin]

Don't compare apples to oranges, ac1983fan.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Ah, but that statement right there is a standard example of aegri somnia, so to speak.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Well, according to the

principals of scumplaying

essay written in 1945 by Mith, Adam Sandler, and Abraham Lincoln, the proper response would be, so to speak, "Your Mom".

Enough with the logical fallacies. You're just being overly defensive of your statements.

[Mastermind of Sin]

You're begging the question, SJ.

[Mastermind of Sin]

QFAT.
MoS is just being defensive.

Shut up MoS.

If I were being defensive, so to speak, my latest posts in their entirety would be devoted to protecting myself from the savage attacks of others. As it were, I have a tiny percentage of recent postings that involve a rebuttal of attack, so you are quite mistaken, Battle Mage.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Yea, I was gonna mention pevergreen, but i'm lazy

[Mastermind of Sin]

Now you're just being retarded, I hate to tell ya.

[Mastermind of Sin]

FoS: TheJiveMachine

I would like you to explain your last post, as it doesn't make a lot of sense to me. It seems to me that you are calling SJ scum for helping out the mod and asking for prods/replacements in the game. This doesn't follow logically with him being scum. It doesn't preclude him from being scum, but it's not a scummy action.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Is it just me, or did a lot of people fade into the background now?

[Mastermind of Sin]

Jalyn, the reason I am set on my vote with blahgo is because, honestly, who else was we going to lynch? I never saw the case on RR, and noone else showed up, so blahgo was the only one who looked like he could be scum. And as far as I'm concern, I still do not see anyone else to lynch so my vote will stay on you.

unvote, vote: scotmany

[Mastermind of Sin]

At least Blahgo's replacement contributes.

[Mastermind of Sin]

FoS: Paper

until he contributes.

[Mastermind of Sin]

It's the way he worded it, SV. Acting like there was no one else to lynch, no one else to talk about, that's bullshit.

However, as much as I

hate

when people use the "you'll be lynching a townie" defense, I think he's just being a really idiotic protown player, so

unvote

[Mastermind of Sin]

huh???

[Mastermind of Sin]

DP, why do you think Rand Althor is scum? I'm not seeing much reason to suspect him right now.

[Mastermind of Sin]

After rereading, I agree with DP's reasons and will

vote: Rand Althor

I don't think he's being entirely helpful.

[Mastermind of Sin]

DP does need to talk more about other players, but his current accusation is at least valid.

[Mastermind of Sin]

right...

[Mastermind of Sin]

That's about where I stand as well.

[Mastermind of Sin]

unvote, vote: Lalmtreasteek

Almost done with midterms.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I hate this day...

[Mastermind of Sin]

*sigh*

[Mastermind of Sin]

Less crash would be much appreciated...

[Mastermind of Sin]

Mod: Can we get a prod on Sailor Jerry?

[Mastermind of Sin]

BM, if you think Kison is scum, quote the posts where he did something scummy and tell us why. Don't just say "go read his posts" and expect everyone to follow you. If you truly follow the playstyle of "say whatever's on my mind" it'll get you a lot farther in games if you actually back up your accusations. Then people might actually listen to you.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I can actually see legitimacy for both your cases. I just don't know which one has more strength to it. :/

[Mastermind of Sin]

We don't need your approval to lynch someone.

[Mastermind of Sin]

And here I was beginning to think I was the only one who saw that. Thanks for your input, Kilroy.

Vote: SJ

I think Skruffs' argument has a better thought process behind it, and his response to BM leaves me more sure of an SJ lynch at this point.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Not to mention that he's clearly NOT right more often than not, considering that BM1 thought Lalm was quite obviously protown.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Don't worry everyone with a smidgen or more of common sense knew what you meant, scotmany. BM doesn't have that.

[Mastermind of Sin]

bravo MoS. Its to your credit that you can still find ever more imaginative ways of being detrimental to the game.

Don't worry everyone with a smidgen or more of common sense knew what you meant, scotmany. BM doesn't have that.

And you blatantly misinterpreting his post

wasn't

detrimental?

[Mastermind of Sin]

rofl.

[Mastermind of Sin]

DGB, funny as it is, I

am

having kittens right now...Kittens of Darkness!

[Mastermind of Sin]

unvote, vote: Fircoal

Lowell's reread brought that early game stuff back to my mind, and I like Fircoal as a much better place for my vote than jah, who can only be expected to speak for his predecessor to a very small extent.

[Mastermind of Sin]

That, too, I guess.

[Mastermind of Sin]

bah.

[Mastermind of Sin]

*slaps DGB with wet noodles*

[Mastermind of Sin]

GUys, at this point, I dont care if we random lynch, but let's do SOMETHING.
I'm a tracker,

I tracked someone to BM1

, but I don't think mafia or SK would kill BM1 when he's the obvious lynch the next day, so

I'm not going to reveal that person.

I think they are a vig.

Discuss.

i really dont understand the logic behind such a claim. you have revealed your role, and given insight into the identity of a potential vig.
However, its a bit late now.

Did you actually get a name of who it was that targetted BM 1?

(yes or no answer please)

(emphasis mine)

*facepalm*

[Mastermind of Sin]

So. Ball. Rolling. Lynch time. Come on.

DGB - interesting theory, has that held true in other games?

Unvote

Vote : Kison

What theory? I searched through DGB's recent posts and I couldn't find anything that qualified as a theory. Could you point it out for me?

[Mastermind of Sin]

Unvote

I hate replacements

[Mastermind of Sin]

my top 2 suspects atm are Kison, and LFBProd. Lynching anyone else today would be stupid. whilst it is true that these players contribute more than Jah, the fact remains that Jah is alot less likely to be scum.
BM

"Fact", because you know he can't be your scumbuddy? Or are you claiming cop? Outside of those two possibilities, there's no way that you can claim it to be a "fact" that Kison and LFBProd are more likely scum than Jah. It remains your opinion until proven true.

[Mastermind of Sin]

It's hardly a useless comment. The fact that four different people (We can't all be scum...) agreed on this should make you realize that you're actually wrong. Your refusal to admit that you're wrong in anything, ever, is one of your biggest flaws, BM. All you do by your useless stubbornness is make it easier for scum to slip through the cracks while people have to spend time and energy dealing with you.

[Mastermind of Sin]

lol this post is so wrong, i cant even begin to explain it to you.

It's hardly a useless comment. The fact that four different people (We can't all be scum...) agreed on this should make you realize that you're actually wrong. Your refusal to admit that you're wrong in anything, ever, is one of your biggest flaws, BM. All you do by your useless stubbornness is make it easier for scum to slip through the cracks while people have to spend time and energy dealing with you.

@Alex-man, i would kick ass as a Jester. unfortunately i have never had that role before, nor do i have it in this game. is its win condition simply to get lynched??
thats seems a little too easy anyway lol.
furthermore, i like the way you have kept your options open on the 3 biggest wagons atm, so you can hammer anyone of them

You made my point for me. Thanks.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Ok, I decided to bring the helpful TCS this game instead of the speedlynching asshole.

I'm at work, rereading as time allows, and will post analysis of this thread when I'm done.

FoS: TCS

[Mastermind of Sin]

Let me elaborate.

Ok, I decided to bring the helpful TCS this game instead of the speedlynching asshole.

I'm at work, rereading as time allows, and will post analysis of this thread when I'm done.

My hammah finger is itching.

Feelin' purty good 'bout this one, folks.

unvote, vote jah5486463815

That's 6/10, TCS. How's the itch now?

Manageable until 9/10. I do so love the hammer.

Clearer now?

[Mastermind of Sin]

jah8127:

I have a few questions for you.

1) Who do you find scummy in this game? You claimed in one of your posts that the various analysis's have helped you figure out where to look for scum since it was tough to read through 50 pages of a game. I want to know what you've found out after reading the analysis's and finding out where to look for scum.

2) Why have the majority of your posts merely said something to the effect of "I'm not scum, I'm town, I don't know how to defend myself"?

3) I know you can't defend against what your predecessor has done, but why are you curling back into your shell like a turtle instead of trying to find scum? You can't defend yourself against past actions, but you

can

convince people that you aren't scum by proactively trying to find other scum. All your posts have done is convince people that you don't care and that you're probably scum who's caught in a trap.

I'll have more questions after you answer these three.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Mod: Please prod jah8127

[Mastermind of Sin]

Didn't even see that post

[Mastermind of Sin]

<3 St. Patty

[Mastermind of Sin]

lol, ignore this page so far

[Mastermind of Sin]

Sadly enough, I think LFBProd is being sincere, dispite the stupidity of his earlier statement. I don't think it was made maliciously.

[Mastermind of Sin]

DGB, you seem to have an obssession with so-called "over-reactions". I don't think you really have a good grasp of what constitutes an over-reaction, nor why they happen, since you're so surprised by them.

[Mastermind of Sin]

That's a funny observation, Skruffs.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Vote: Battle Mage

That is a terrible assumption. You are not only assuming that someone is definitely scum (Kison), but you are then assuming that other people are scum by association (LFBProd), before actually finding out whether Kison is scum or not. Voting Kison on the assumption that he might be scum is ok (although the level to which you are sure he is scum, is a bit over-the-top), but that's ridiculous that you're pushing someone else because Kison is voting them, claiming that he's probably bussing his partner. You don't even know for sure that Kison is scum, and yet you're acting on this. What reason would Kison have to bus 2 scumbuddies in a row, the first two days of the game? How is that beneficial to him, when he clearly already suspect for the first dead scum. It's not like bussing a second scumbuddy is going to give him good credit to ride until endgame. I'd really like you to explain how any of this makes sense, BM, because it just looks to me like you're trying to justify a bad play in order to push someone who doesn't know the right things to say to stay out of trouble.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Good point, and something i did think about afterwards, but i figure its quite concievable that Kison-scum could put a pressure vote on his buddy.
Besides, the reaction to the votes reveals a fair bit into the roles of other players.
BM

I misread this quote. My bad.

Unvote

I still think the above post contains a pretty bad assertion (it is in fact far LESS conceivable that Kison-scum would bus LFBProd-scum after busing Lalm yesterday), but that's not your main reason for voting LFBProd. Although you should probably rethink your vote, BM. If you are truly convinced that Kison is definitely scum, there isn't much reason for you to be voting LFBProd right now, because Kison-scum voting LFBProd makes LFBProd more likely to be protown.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I thought that his main reason for voting LFBProd was that he though Kison was busing him. That's where I misread it.

[Mastermind of Sin]

*sigh* It doesn't look like Jah's going to show up to answer my questions any time soon.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Mod: I would like to request that you find replacement for Twito

, if he's not even going to bother playing for another two weeks. That is unacceptable.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I do want to hammah, but not until I feel I've given Jah enough time to answer my questions. We've still got time before the dealine.

[Mastermind of Sin]

LoL@BM

[Mastermind of Sin]

FoS: ac1983fan

[Mastermind of Sin]

Indeed

[Mastermind of Sin]

yes, usually you play very well. i would consider you one of best protown players. unfortunately this is the exception to the rule.

Yeah, right. I think MoS, who knows me quite well, will see right through your strategic flattery.

He's getting desparate. Which is funny, since he only has one vote.

Vote: Battle Mage

Go Go Lynchmobile!

<3 DGB

[Mastermind of Sin]

circular argument, until tomorrow. only of consequence if Jah comes up town.

2. if Jah comes up scum, its very likely that some of his buddies are on the wagon. it hasnt moved quickly, but it has been apparent for a long time that Jah is the likely play. as such,

i expect the vast majority of his scumbuddies to be on the wagon atm

, if he should be scum.
this also contradicts TCS's point nicely.

Does that make sense? It's making me think that YOU are scum, and not voting for your scumbuddy, haha. We'll find out for sure after the lynch!

Am I the only one wondering why BM had to point out that this argument only mattered tomorrow, when DGB had already said that "We'll find out for sure after the lynch"?

[Mastermind of Sin]

Or BM is scum and his buddies ARE on the wagon, and he's playing Devil's Advocate to look protown when the people on the Jah wagon are eventually dead.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Indeeeeeeedy

[Mastermind of Sin]

Do you think Jah is a better option? If not, who is?

[Mastermind of Sin]

Safe because he's likely to be scum, or safe because you think you'll catch the least flak by jumping on a big bandwagon?

FoS: scotmany

[Mastermind of Sin]

Its the safest MoS, because I can truly see him as scum. I believe that there is a high probability that he is scum. And even if he turns out town, we honestly won't be losing that much. That is why I think he is the safest lynch atm.

Why do you believe him to be scum?

[Mastermind of Sin]

Can you quote which post you are referring to? Also, given what you know about Jah (looking at other games of his and whatnot), what makes you believe that it's more likely scum play than newbie play?

[Mastermind of Sin]

You can just look at his profile and read all his posts, you know.

[Mastermind of Sin]

BM stop being so nearsighted. Just because the vig killed you doesn't mean they're a bad player. It's your own fault that you got killed, 90% of the people in this game would've considered killing you as vig.

[Mastermind of Sin]

BM stop being so nearsighted. Just because the vig killed you doesn't mean they're a bad player. It's your own fault that you got killed, 90% of the people in this game would've considered killing you as vig.

did you not see the dude? he was joking.

BM puts a freakin' smiley in nearly every post he makes, so I have to take it seriously. Either that, or he can just have me never take him seriously, which wouldn't help him in getting people to believe he's found scum. Besides, he's a bad enough player that I could believe he'd do something like that. (ohnoz, he put a smiley at the end, was he joking or serious!?)

[Mastermind of Sin]

Congrats! Welcome back

[Mastermind of Sin]

BM, I'm not a politician. I'm a mafia player. Same thing, though.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I'm already successful as the latter >_> /selfplug

[Mastermind of Sin]

nope. It'd have to be an outdoor theater. I'd be able to provide shade, too.

[Mastermind of Sin]

no. That's like adding a second tank of helium.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I have this old Mac I stole. I use it as an anchor so I don't fly away. Look, it's even those this handle so you can tie the rope to it!

[Mastermind of Sin]

It crashed when I tried to run grammar check. Also, there was this freakin' update manager bouncing up and down at the bottom of the screen like a Jack Russell fucking Terrier. That made it hard to activate the grammar check as well.

[Mastermind of Sin]

That's pretty much par for the course.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Vote: Battle Mage

[Mastermind of Sin]

yea, gogo largest wagon!

[Mastermind of Sin]

sweet.

[Mastermind of Sin]

theo makes good points, but I don't think Rand is that scummy, just not cleared.

[Mastermind of Sin]

vote:theo

.
idiot.
rand claimed first, it would have taken a crapload of effort jsut to pull that role out of his ass. there could have been two... and lalm lied. scum do that.

This is a horrible post. It looks like ac1983fan is just trying to put pressure on people and follow the flow of the game, without actually being proactive.

unvote, vote: ac1983fan

I would feel better about Theo if he had actually conceded that he was wrong about Rand, but he kept fighting it until he decided to agree to disagree, which is still bad.

Rand is right that criminologist is a rare role, so I doubt he's lying. Also, if Lalm was telling the truth about criminologist being a safe claim (and I suspect he was, since it sounded like he was mad that it didn't work out for him), that implies that it was supposed to be a safe claim because there would be multiples of them. If he wasn't telling the truth about having a safe claim, then it doesn't help us, but it doesn't make it much less likely that we have multiple criminologists.

Also, criminologist is a good role, because if someone claims vig and claims their kills, the criminologist can check them and see if it was actually an SK or mafia that made the kill. However, it's limited use means that I could see having more than one criminologist, because if one dies, we still have another weak power role to take up the mantle.

This is a large game, don't be overawed by the number of power roles we have. 3 power roles is nothing, I'd guess that at least a third, if not more, of the town players have power roles. Just a rough estimation, but my point is, don't try to discredit him because you think we have too many power roles.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Actually, it's a pretty easy case to argue against. I just did.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Gah, why do I think Jalyn is scum now? >_<

[Mastermind of Sin]

i think you are underestimating Lalm. he may have been easy to spot scum, but he was damn good at luring BM1 into trusting him. bearing in mind he was capable of that, id say its quite possible that he simultaneously tried to distance himself from scumbuddy Scotmany.
If you dont have a view on Kison yet, you might wanna read through again. Or are you saying you find him neutral?

Wasn't BM1 pretty much the only person that he was able to lure into trusting him

Luring BM into trusting him isn't hard. All you have to do is not think he's scum, and he won't accuse you of being scum.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I'll promise to get a LOS done on this when I've completed my second re-read. As I say I'm certainly not clearing Rand and definately want him to answer with regards his reactions to Lalm, plus the fact he wasn't voting someone who claimed such an obscure role. Still I'll let sleeping dogs lie for today.

What I will say is out of the Lalm wagon I like Skruffs, Kison and Scotmany more than anyone. Lalm was so anti-Scot I can't see a newb distancing so much. A calculated clever scum maybe, not Lalm tho. Jalyn also seems very pro-town, which makes MoS's recent accusation slightly baffling, maybe you could elaborate, MoS?

The post right before mine struck me as a possible mafia post, but I could be being paranoid.

[Mastermind of Sin]

What is your "luck" in this game? That you've been wrong in your guesses so far? Being proven wrong means that you're going to be right?

[Mastermind of Sin]

I believe the tells on ac1983fan are more solid than those on BM. Of course, his normal play as town makes it hard to differentiate...

[Mastermind of Sin]

Skruffs, you DO realize that the only reason I "compared" ac1983fan to BM was because I was

asked

to? Read the post above mine, which I was responding to.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Sorry BM old boy . . . I just find others more suspicious. Especially those two names he left of his modkill list.

Lalm struck me as basically a clown, i.e probably never heard of bussing, distancing etc.

Why are you still stuck on the modkill list? The people that were supposedly "left off" the list shouldn't have been there in the first place, so what's your point? His list was correct, he didn't leave anyone off on purpose or on accident, as far as I can tell.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I am not impressed with ac1983fan's lack of defense or any sort of contribution at all.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I believe that claim unless it's a safe claim. I wouldn't vote him.

*in response to Rand's claim*

I was rereading Lalm and caught this. I'm pretty sure that's conclusive proof that his safe claim was Criminologist. It explains why he would think it was a safe claim rather than a fake claim.

[Mastermind of Sin]

As for TCS - I've not much knowledge of TCS's playstyle but he's not helping things much, as is MoS, being as I know my own alignment and looking back over Fircoal's play and TCS's in relation to the Jah lynch. I don't think he's looking overly pro-town. His latest vote is quite frankly just a bandwagon hop.

Are you

really

trying to claim that I'm not being helpful?

Really?

Sorry BM old boy . . . I just find others more suspicious. Especially those two names he left of his modkill list.

Lalm struck me as basically a clown, i.e probably never heard of bussing, distancing etc.

Why are you still stuck on the modkill list? The people that were supposedly "left off" the list shouldn't have been there in the first place, so what's your point? His list was correct, he didn't leave anyone off on purpose or on accident, as far as I can tell.

Thing is we don't know if he left anyone of on purpose, do we? From memory a couple of the others on that listed posted after you, so really you should have been down for a modkill according to Lalm. Plus you seem to want me to ignore it, why's that - pretty much Lalm saying it got his wagon rolling, it's worth looking at.

I don't want you to ignore it. I want you to stop treating it like a scumtell. The only people that had posted after me on the modkill list had just posted to say they had been prodded, because they'd been lurking even longer than that. I was not prodded, because I hadn't been lurking longer than any of the people on that list.

[Mastermind of Sin]

MoS during the period after Rand claimed including Lalm's claim you weren't particularly helpful. I've still not got everything down in notes so have no real full-proof suspicions. The list was just something jumped out.

And? That was Day 1, and that was in the middle of 3 exams in 1 1/2 weeks. What's your fucking point? Me not being helpful for a certain period of time != me not being helpful over the entire game on the whole, which is what your post is implying.

[Mastermind of Sin]

MoS having just viewed your posts in isolation, I'm actually pretty happy with your play aside from that two week period. I'd like to hear more of you suspicions currently as such however.

Also

unvote, vote BrazeGoesMoo

My current top suspect is ac1983fan. I do not have other suspects at this moment, that I can remember. Not to say I don't find everyone to be town, I just don't remember who I felt was scummy in this game, because I'm getting confused with my other games, lol.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I still don't see how Theo could possibly be that confused as to why we have two criminologists. It's like he's not even reading my posts where I repeatedly proved that we should have at least two of them, and further backed it up with more evidence. Rand is clear.

[Mastermind of Sin]

theo, I proved that Lalm had Criminologist as his safe claim. Why would he have a role as a safe claim that already existed in the game, unless the town was supposed to believe that there were multiple instances of the role in the setup? Please explain this to me. Even though you have had to give up your crusade in the face of overwhelming evidence, you still claimed to find it hard to believe that it appeared twice.

Also, I clearly explained how useful (or not useful, as the case may be) the Criminologist role is in my posts, the same posts where I proved that there could be two of that role in this game. I seriously think you aren't really reading the thread unless it's directed specifically at you.

[Mastermind of Sin]

theopor, throwing in roles like the Criminologist is a good way to give people a chance to be useful instead of just having to get the townie role. It's a good way to keep setups balanced without boring everyone.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Why do you think I'm on that vote as well? I completely agree, but everyone else refuses to comment on his scumminess.

[Mastermind of Sin]

EBWOP: That should be "most" everyone else...I'm sure I saw one or two people contributing their own opinion on it.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Oh yeah, I investigated ac1983fan and they are scum...>_> <3 Skruffs?

[Mastermind of Sin]

So if I'm assuming acfan is town, I wonder if Jalyn or MoS is scum. I'll reread them and post thoughts later today.

If ac1983fan is scum, who do you think is scum?

[Mastermind of Sin]

Why do you think the people on that list would be ac1983fan's scumbuddies?

[Mastermind of Sin]

I DID NOT CLAIM COP, NOR DID I EVER TRY TO CLAIM COP. SKRUFFS MADE THAT PERFECTLY OBVIOUS IN MY ABSENCE. I CAN'T BELIEVE ANYONE THOUGHT I WAS CLAIMING COP.

Clear enough?

[Mastermind of Sin]

I really only want him to claim if it will nail another scum member. Otherwise, I would advise against it, as there are no votes on him right now, and he isn't in danger of a lynch. I don't see how it would be beneficial.

BM himself said he should probably claim, so I assume it will help us in some manner.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I DID NOT CLAIM COP, NOR DID I EVER TRY TO CLAIM COP. SKRUFFS MADE THAT PERFECTLY OBVIOUS IN MY ABSENCE. I CAN'T BELIEVE ANYONE THOUGHT I WAS CLAIMING COP.

Clear enough?

It was still really funny.

Indeed.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Actually, BM, I thought you were trying to breadcrumb a cop claim yesterday, not doc. From Skruffs reaction yesterday, I'm sure he thought this as well.

[Mastermind of Sin]

BM, rand was already cleared. Skruffs' death cleared Rand, because he tracked Rand to a target that was already dead.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Rand, what was your result last night? It can only help us to figure out who the various killers (protown and otherwise) are targetting to get an idea of what's going on at night.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Wait, TCS replaced Fircoal? Oh damn, how did I forget that.

FoS: TCS

, although it's rather obvious what he'll claim.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Do we have a reason not to?

[Mastermind of Sin]

true lol.
however, there is the possibility that he genuinely noticed that i was hinting at a power role, and chose to believe me.
not a particularly strong possibility, but still... lol

Why are you feeding TCS his claim?

[Mastermind of Sin]

I did not Vig BM last night because I thought from his reaction at the end of Day 3 that he was the Cop.

If you look at my last post from day three, you will see that I am implying who the kill really will be.

Also, I was the only one to accuse Alex Paoletti and I was in fact the one to Vig him.

Skruffs followed me to BM, and with Rand's investigation he knew my alignment. His attempt to call Theopor the vig was obvious misdirection.

I really think that if you had put some thought into your role, LFB, you could have avoided outing me and caught scum at the same time.

Except for the middle part of this claim, everything could've been easily faked. The rest would require TCS to plan for the eventuality that he would have to claim vig and set up this claim. That would be way more sneaky than TCS seems to be.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Kison, you said that you "think" cops and vigilantes show up as having guns. LFBProd seemed to be sure that cops do not show up as having guns. Would you like to explain this discrepancy?

FoS: Kison

[Mastermind of Sin]

He already has. Are you even paying attention? Did you even see LFB and Kison's posts and claims? Are you in your own little world?

[Mastermind of Sin]

true lol.
however, there is the possibility that he genuinely noticed that i was hinting at a power role, and chose to believe me.
not a particularly strong possibility, but still... lol

Why are you feeding TCS his claim?

lol im not. im doing something most people wouldnt consider me doing in their wildest dreams. Im using the evidence we have to come to a reasonable conclusion. Your seeming defence of Kison is noted.
As is Kisons panicked tone in post 1953. Why do you say i am jumping to conclusions, when i specifically said that i wanted to hear what you had to say?

I agree that it was the reasonable conclusion. However, there is never a reason to help possible scum come up with reasons to back up their claim.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Now im torn. I'd still like to hear Rands result. I was previously inclined to believe TCS was Vig, but of course, this confuses things. Im starting to get the impression that the scum could just be copying the roles claimed by town.

Where are you getting this impression from? We already established that Lalm was given a safe claim of Criminologist. That's as good as proven right now. I agree that Kison's claim is fishy, but I'm concerned with some of your statements and attacks regarding him. I'd rather you rethink your reasons and not vote him and he turn up scum (he wouldn't last long anyway), than have us lynch him for entirely the wrong reasons, scum or not.

[Mastermind of Sin]

It does however seem a bit coincidental that Kison claimed the EXACT SAME ROLE, AND MECHANICS as LFBProd.

Coincidental? What, do you think we'd have the same role with

different

mechanics? Do you think Rand and Battle Mage The First had different mechanics? My guess would be no. So it's

not

a coincidence.

While BM's statement isn't really logical, you're dodging the point here. It's rather suspicious that, when faced with the fact that you are most likely a killer, you claim a non-killing role that copies a role claim already made.

Vote: Kison

[Mastermind of Sin]

thats poor logic. You surely understand what im getting at. Lets say you are telling the truth, and LFB is lying (although i know the two are not mutually intrinsic). Do you really expect us to believe that LFB not only picked your role out of thin air, and described the mechanics EXACTLY how they are for you!?

I don't think anyone believes LFBProd is lying.

the bit with Skruffs still bugs me. I mean, if he had said something as cryptic to me, i would have probably made a big deal over it. Maybe thats not necessarily the best thing to do, but it IS the sort of thing i would expect from you Kison. Yet you IGNORED IT. Now, im pretty damn sure that Kison-town would have looked at that comment, and at least queried it. However, you havent.

Why would you have made a big deal out of it, BM? Are you that eager to reveal to the scum that you have a power role? Is there a reason to out yourself just because a tracker asked if you targetted anyone?

Also Kison, please direct me to a completed game in which a gunsmith got a guilty result on a Cop.

Yakuza mafia, perhaps. It had a gunsmith that did not detect one of the scum, and I think it might've detected cops as well.

Also, http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Gunsmith
Note that cops are listed as having a gun under the traditional role description. Although I fail to see how this is relevant at all, since both Kison and LFBProd have confirmed that their roles, if they aren't lying, do not detect cops.

*shrug* I hope that expediates the discussion.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Post 1500. In which I breadcrumb vig.

1523-1525. In which I converse with Skruffs.

1584. In which I imply that Rand is confirmed.

1845. In which I breadcrumb killing BM.

1882. In which I change my mind and breadcrumb vigging DGB.

Here's my best proof that I'm town: Day 3 I breadcrumbed killing DGB. If anyone other than me is vig, we're assuming that one of two things happened: 1, that someone else vigged DGB in a wild coincidence while I did the obvious thing and shot Skruffs, or 2, that the "real vig" shot Skruffs last night and I wasted my mafia kill on DGB. Both are improbable to the point of impossibility.

I'm telling you, I'm the vig, and the stabbing last night means there's an SK. That's how this game works. That's why we have a gunsmith specifically and not a cop.

I'd like LFB to reveal who his other target was.

I missed this earlier. I'm really suspicious of the fact that you're assuming that if you're not the vig, you're mafia. I think it's quite likely that you're the SK, perhaps moreso than mafia, because there isn't anyone with a real connection with you. As the SK, you would know that you need to set up a claim from the start, so I find it highly plausible that your breadcrumbed your kills and played the SK somewhat like a vig in order to set up your claim. Your insistence that the SK has the stabbing kill method feels almost like you had inside information on the subject, since no one else had even thought of that yet, from what I remember.

Damn. It really looks like LFBProd outed two scum with his claim, one SK and one mafia. I just can't decide which one's more likely to be scum and the better lynch. Both claims have holes in them that indicate possible scum alignment, and it'd be really nice to eliminate a nightkill sooner rather than later. However, the mafia is more of a threat in the long run...damnit.

FoS: TCS

while I think about this.

[Mastermind of Sin]

LFBProd, does your role specifically say that you find people who make nightkills?

[Mastermind of Sin]

hmm, interesting, but i'd hardly call it conclusive!
We've already established that there was an actual Criminologist in this game (2 in fact). By definition, a safe-claim is one that nobody else can match. So, i can say with come certainty that Lalm did not have Criminologist as a safeclaim, unless we have a Bastard Mod who really wants a town win. :p
Lalms slip of the tongue is, admittedly, noteworthy, but it cannot logically be more than a coincidence.

You're wrong. A Safe Claim, by definition, is one that the town will likely believe. The fact that there were two criminologists made it more likely that we'd believe Lalm's claim, since counterclaiming him doesn't do anything. Had there only been one protown criminologist, it wouldn't have been a safe claim. There

had

to be two for it to be a safe claim, and lalm's posts nearly guarantee that he had it as a safe claim.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I would have made a big deal out of it, because Skruffs claimed TRACKER. he said he knew who the Vig was. Now, far be it from me to state the obvious, but if he claimed to know that i had a power role, and I WASN'T THE VIG, I'd be keen to draw it to everyone's attention, as it would suggest that Skruffs might not be who he claimed to be. Now, had Kison claimed Vig, i might have believed him over TCS based on this one example of breadcrumbing. However Kison has not claimed Vig.

Where did Skruffs say he know Kison had a power role?

[Mastermind of Sin]

I really think the SK stabs people, and generally does not carry gun, so if TCS is the SK, he would not have had a gun.

Addressing what I know. I know that, according to my role, I find people who can make night kills using a gun, and no one else. Kison, you have claimed a role that can not make a night kill. Impossible, as you would not have come up as owning a gun then. Your defense saying that you might have a gun lying around assumes far too much.

Thanks for pointing this out. That puts a bit of a flaw in my theory, and I feel a bit better about TCS now.

unFoS: TCS

[Mastermind of Sin]

SV, I'm curious that Kison's having a gun rings false to you, but you don't stop to question the fact that LFBProd said cops don't come up as having guns...that being said, I still believe LFBProd's claim, but it looks to me like you're being selective in your prejudices because Kison is under suspicion and LFBProd isn't.

[Mastermind of Sin]

The point is, look at how many claimed power roles we have? I'm sure we have even more unclaimed. Scum can have repeat power claims as safe claims, because we don't know who's lying. We wouldn't know which of 3 people were lying, if they all claimed it.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I thought it was pretty obvious that Skruffs was just testing him. I figured he was bluffing to see how Kison would react, with a possibility that he had actually targetted him.

[Mastermind of Sin]

You make a good point, Jalyn. Perhaps Kison can give a satisfactory answer as to why he would not care about being caught in a lie. Perhaps he can't, and we'll lynch him for being ObvScum.

[Mastermind of Sin]

BM, scum aren't the only ones to use scaretactics. It was fairly obvious from Skruffs' play that he was protown, so there is no reason to attack him. You're one of the few people that still felt he could be scum. The rest of us saw the truth.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Okay glad to have your thoughts Kison.

I only went after Rand as I've never seen one of these criminolgist guys let alone two, hence when I replaced in I don't think it was unwarranted. I still actually want Rand to post his result from last night which he is yet to do. You believe LFBProd's claim without a shadow of doubt then? Even though he found a gun on you, when in all reality you shouldn't have a gun - not as if you can kill being a gunsmith eh.

ac1983fan turning scum makes me think Lalmstreek's modkill list may have included another scum partner, ac was on it. However I'm still pretty convinced Kison is the right lynch today - BrazeGoesMoo needs replacing.

Does this alleviate your baseless suspicions that I was scum

based

on not being on the modkill list?

Not saying you should think I'm town, but I hardly think it's evidence against me, and it was really pissing me off.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I do not agree. I believe it was explained at the time people first called it odd why myself and TCS were left off.

[Mastermind of Sin]

First Reaction: SV's in this game?

Second Reaction: SV's in this game?

Third Reaction: Reread SV's posts

Fourth Reaction: *sigh*

There's not enough content from SV to really help me tell is she's scum or town.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Yea, in response to my SK theory, I just happened to be speculating to someone outside the game about the nightkills and realized that I didn't really have a reason to believe TCS was the vig, since Kison didn't counterclaim him. I checked back in the thread, and that's what prompted my post. Your point about the Criminologist being redundant (and there were two of them...) is well taken, though, so I haven't entirely thrown out that theory. We'll see how things unfold before that gets taken any further, though.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Also, I suggest that Rand Althor put himself to good use and check out TCS's claim by targetting one of the people he claimed to have killed. If we're lucky, he'll live through the night and be able to verify the vig claim.

[Mastermind of Sin]

ffs way to lynch without letting Rand tell us his result...

True, although last night's was probably less important than the result for tonight will be. We can make a good guess as to most of the kills, but we need to confirm TCS, and Rand is the only one that can do that.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I'm a Gunsmith. If you don't know what that is, read the wiki. All you need to know is that I can target someone at night and find out if they have the ability to shoot someone at night.

This does not include cops.

MoS: because of this bit in italics.

I'll claim. I'm the back-up roleblocker. The first night I assumed my duty, I screwed and sent in a doc protect because I misread my role pm. I have since pmed the mod to clarify that my night choice did not go through because of the wording of my pm to the mod. Last night, I blocked Dripping Goofball, because I thought she was scummy.

SV, it was that bit in italics that made me suspicious of why you DIDN'T take issue with his claim...the fact that he claimed his role does not find cops (making him nearly infallible and giving the scum limited claim options) did not strike you odd

at all?

[Mastermind of Sin]

Who to believe.

LFBProd claims Gunsmith - claims he's found a Gun on Kison and TCS.
TCS claims Vig - has killed Alex Paoletti and DGB
Kison claims Gunsmith - investigations so far Battle Mage, Alex Paoletti then investigates LFBProd and he shows up with a Gun.

Note I don't think a Gunsmith should have a gun, correct? My recollection of the role was only mafia, vigs maybe cops? I don't buy Kison's little claim that he'd have an old gun in his shed or whatever.

What? Why is it that I am surrounded by people intent on lynching Kison for bullshit reasons? His claim that a gunsmith would have a gun

makes sense

, because

HE MAKES GUNS

. However, this claim is countered by LFBProd's assertion that he can only find people who make nightkills. This means one of them is mistaken (LFBProd) or lying (Kison).

The other little sideshow obviously is Rand has revealed Mafia killed Alex. Which means TCS is lieing or Rand is lieing - I'm still not putting Rand down as confirmed - there was only kill Night Two the night Skruffs followed Rand - he could well have been blocked - either way he's not 100% confirmed as pretty much everyone else is saying . . not for me anyhow, not yet. Mind one of Rand or TCS is telling porkies.

Rand is confirmed. Skruffs tracked him to a target

that was already dead

. Scum would not be able to target a dead person. Only the criminologist can do that. When will you stop trying to sling misdirection and confusion on Rand's confirmed claim?

FoS: theopor

I would like Rand to confirm that he indeed targetted Alex. If so, TCS is a guaranteed scum, perhaps even more than Kison. I would not be surprised if both were mafia caught by LFBProd. The only thing left to decide is which do we lynch today, and which tomorrow. My personal opinion leads towards TCS, but that's more out of strategic value than thinking him scummier. Killing TCS rids us of a possible second kill, if he is SK or Vig. Even if he is a protown Vig (not likely given Rand's result), he has not successfully killed scum to this point, so I would not want to risk losing another townie to his kill. This, of course, is all subject to Rand's confirmation of his result.

[Mastermind of Sin]

RAND IS CONFIRMED BY THE DEAD AND CONFIRMED PROTOWN SKRUFFS. GET THAT THROUGH YOUR HEAD.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Well I still want to see TCS prove himself. So he target someone tonight and tell us who it was and i'll loot the corpse...er I mean identify who killed it.

Rand, please answer the question. Did the mafia kill Alex Paoletti?

@BM: I see no reason for Rand to have gotten selective results. If two killers targetted Alex Paoletti (which doesn't make a lot of sense. The only person who had reason to kill Alex was TCS - due to true suspicion, or to set up his claim), I believe Rand would have gotten two results. He can later check this out by seeing who killed Skruffs, but that's not as important as confirming TCS's claim.

Unvote

, until I get an answer from Rand.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Jalyn, this is only like the 12th time that I've had to repeat that Rand is obviously confirmed...forgive me if I'm a little frustrated, but I think it's quite justified at this point.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Makes sense. I still want confirmation from Rand, though.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Where are BrazeGoesMoo, Lowell, and scotmany? I don't think I've seen them post in a while.

[Mastermind of Sin]

only evidence of an actual RB will validate such a claim at this point.

Dragon Phoenix (Roleblocker) shot night 1

Dare I say:

GG Reading Retention

[Mastermind of Sin]

Discount? Nope. It does make him not the play for today - our true vig has a guaranteed target tonight if TCS is lying, meaning there is no reason for the town to bother with it today.

Thinking about it, he has to be SK if not vig. That's why he didn't know not to claim Alex as a vig kill - he didn't know that the mafia offed Alex instead of the vig!

Even if the vig will kill him, do we dare give him another kill tonight? The vig can kill Kison as well, and we rid outselves of one more dead protown by lynching TCS.

Vote: TCS

Jalyn's theory that he claimed the Alex kill, thinking the vig killed him, makes a lot of sense, and I'd rather rid ourselves of the SK first, and mafia next. We've got two confirmed scum, so the only reason to kill one first instead of the other is deciding which death benefits us more.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Discount? Nope. It does make him not the play for today - our true vig has a guaranteed target tonight if TCS is lying, meaning there is no reason for the town to bother with it today.

Thinking about it, he has to be SK if not vig. That's why he didn't know not to claim Alex as a vig kill - he didn't know that the mafia offed Alex instead of the vig!

Even if the vig will kill him, do we dare give him another kill tonight? The vig can kill Kison as well, and we rid outselves of one more dead protown by lynching TCS.

Vote: TCS

Jalyn's theory that he claimed the Alex kill, thinking the vig killed him, makes a lot of sense, and I'd rather rid ourselves of the SK first, and mafia next. We've got two confirmed scum, so the only reason to kill one first instead of the other is deciding which death benefits us more.

I don't think that's the right move. I want one more night to confirm him. He kill's tonight and tomorrow says who he killed and the next night I will investigate.

WHA? Rand, you're proposing giving scum two more days to live...that's unacceptable.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I would believe that Rand might have sanity issues, except that if this is the case, and TCS is telling the truth, than why did Rand get a vig result from BM, whom TCS claimed to have killed?

[Mastermind of Sin]

Whatever.

unvote, vote: Kison

Works either way for me, and it doesn't look like people agree with my tactical suggestion, so I'm not going to push it.

[Mastermind of Sin]

FoS: TCS

, pending Rand's result.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Jalyn, what constitutes the "first kill"? It doesn't make sense to order night choices by when they are sent in. Night choices are supposed to resolve simultaneously, unless the mod gives some sort of precedence in order to avoid paradox. If they didn't resolve simultaneously, one killer could kill another without dying (like the First Strike ability in Magic: The Gathering).

I don't consider TCS confirmed because there are several possibilities that would leave him alive (vig got roleblocked, mafia have a doctor to protect him, etc). With the town apparently having so many power roles, there are a lot of options.

I don't believe FoSing BM is in order. He's fairly obviously protown, and I'm pretty sure he protected Rand to make sure that we could confirm TCS's alignment today.

[Mastermind of Sin]

While I'm glad Rand's alive and all, I think it would have made much more sense to make sure the closest thing we had to a cop still living made it through the night.
And what has made BM "pro-town" when two days ago he was so scummy that people were begging him to claim lest he get vigged? He claimed doc? I don't remember him being so incredibly pro-town yesterday that he should get a pass. After a quick reread, he went very hard after Kison, is that what you meant?

As for TCS, ok, so the vig was roleblocked or TCS was protected. Why is scotmany dead?

Why would scum-TCS not kill scotmany, since it makes him look like he's cooperating with the town?

[Mastermind of Sin]

And about BM, it's that it doesn't make sense for anyone else to be doc. His protection choices make sense only for him. With any other doc, I find it hard to believe that both Skruffs and LFBProd would've died.

[Mastermind of Sin]

While I'm glad Rand's alive and all, I think it would have made much more sense to make sure the closest thing we had to a cop still living made it through the night.
And what has made BM "pro-town" when two days ago he was so scummy that people were begging him to claim lest he get vigged? He claimed doc? I don't remember him being so incredibly pro-town yesterday that he should get a pass. After a quick reread, he went very hard after Kison, is that what you meant?

As for TCS, ok, so the vig was roleblocked or TCS was protected. Why is scotmany dead?

Why would scum-TCS not kill scotmany, since it makes him look like he's cooperating with the town?

SK kill, I'd assume. We have yet to prove whether or not the SK has the particular killing method you suggested, so I'm taking in all possibilities.

Why would vig-random-other-person kill a cop?

[Mastermind of Sin]

Oops, I put it in the quotes...

Here's what I wrote:

SK kill, I'd assume. We have yet to prove whether or not the SK has the particular killing method you suggested, so I'm taking in all possibilities.

[Mastermind of Sin]

DGB was killed by a vig.

unFoS: TCS

I guess this clears him, although I am still quite confused by his "mafia" result on Alex Paoletti, because it makes no sense at all for the mafia to have killed him.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Vote: SV

Her claim felt suspect to me, and given that we have so many power roles and no evidence of a backup, I doubt she was telling the truth.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I agree with TCS's conjectures, although it would be nice to have further confirmation of the kill method. Since we've already taken down 3 mafia, I'd say we probably have a Godfather and an SK left, since that would give us 5/20 scum.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I don't think I ever doubted that there was an SK. I just wasn't sure if your conjectures proved there was one (ie, there probably was an SK, but they didn't have to have killed Skruffs, or they didn't avoid the gunsmith, or something like that. I'm not sure exactly what the circumstances were, I don't have time to go look it up).

[Mastermind of Sin]

DGB was killed by a vig.

unFoS: TCS

I guess this clears him, although I am still quite confused by his "mafia" result on Alex Paoletti, because it makes no sense at all for the mafia to have killed him.

actually with regard to posts like these, i can sort of see where TCS is coming from with the MoS-SK theory.

As for Jalyn always acting sickeningly protown, unfortunately that is the case in my experience, regardless of alignment. I am finding it difficult to see Jalyn as scum, and certainly not the play for today at least.

Are you not confused by the fact that Rand said the Mafia made a kill TCS claimed, and that there was no evidence of multiple killers in the death scene (like there was for Skruffs)? I'm not sure how you think this post implies that I am an SK.

[Mastermind of Sin]

OH, almost forgot. Leaving tonight for Thespival, I'll be back Tuesday.

[Mastermind of Sin]

BM, why must you insist, as usual, to vote me without presenting a reasonable case, and then completely ignoring my responses to you?

oh yeah, and

Vote: MoS

not only do i get a scummy vibe from him, but the only player here who would know just how bad i am as Doc, and thus leave me alive. I'm sure that if MoS wasn't scum, i'd be dead already.

BM, everyone

in this game

has evidence that you are a bad Doc, because they saw Skruffs die without protection. Also, you are claiming that I am responsible for the kills of ALL the scumgroups, which makes no sense whatsoever. If I am the only person who knew you were a bad doc (which we have already established to be a false claim), why did the other scumgroup not kill you?

I am interested in seeing how you justify the last question, because I only see one logical answer, but that answer is again nullified in and of itself.

[Mastermind of Sin]

"other scumgroup"?
we have 2 scumgroups now? as well as an SK?
wonderful news..
but ill humour you with a response. It is possible that the second scum group, knowing that there were other anti-town killing roles, chose not ton waste their NK on the Doc, thinking someone else woudl kill him. However i seriously doubt we have 4 killing roles still in the game, when we have yet to see even 3 NK's at night.

I don't think we have BOTH an SK

and

two scumgroups. However, I see no reason to assume one over the other, and "other scumgroup" can refer to either a second mafia or an SK, so I don't see why you're making such a big deal out of semantics.

oh and MoS, the case is greater than that post alone. My suspicion of you was mainly arroused by your interaction with Acfan, which stank of bussing even moreso than Kison and Lalm. Not to mention the fact that, after you exhibited this behaviour, people started suggesting you were confirmed protown. Again, there is absolutely no logic to such statements, therefore it figured that some people had special reason to protect you.

So, people started suggesting I was confirmed protown, eh? They have a special reason to protect me? Is that right...

People who have said I was protown (paraphrased):

TCS - "think we can call him town"
theo - "I have him firmly entrenched in the town camp"
Jalyn - "probably not mafia based on interaction with ac1983fan"
spectrumvoid - "not MoS because of his reaction with ac1983fan, still could be SK"
CrashTextDummie - "I am positive he is not part of the mafia. There is a possibility that he is SK though"

So, BM, which of these players has a special reason to "protect" me, and how do their statements equate to calling me confirmed protown?

[Mastermind of Sin]

Wow...SV claimed Backup RB yesterday, right? So why would she think she was a Backup

Doctor

after claiming Backup

RB

, in addition to Jalyn's point about there being no dead Doctor? I don't think a Mafia RB would mess up a claim like that, but I don't think a real RB (backup, of course) would make that mistake for the same reason a mafia RB wouldn't. However, I find it slightly more likely that scum would mess up the claim than town, so my top two bets are that she is either not an RB at all or a Mafia RB. The problem is, we can test to find out if SV is an RB or not, but then if she is an RB, she's still probably mafia, so we didn't really gain anything by testing her claim at night.

[Mastermind of Sin]

MoS - SV claims that that "protect" thing happened on Night 2, I believe, not after her claim.

And, as for mafia roleblocker, see my objection about the "mafia" reveals.

Hmmm,

Unvote

[Mastermind of Sin]

Happy scumday Lowell!

[Mastermind of Sin]

lol @ SV

[Mastermind of Sin]

but it's funny

[Mastermind of Sin]

and the thread dies...awesome.

[Mastermind of Sin]

What Theo was trying to say:

CTD replaced Twito. Twito attacked Kison. Therefore, if Twito is scum (i.e. a viable lynch for today), and he attacked Kison, we should be looking at you as well.

Did I miss anything?

[Mastermind of Sin]

I'm tired of having 10 alive and nearly half the players not posting.

People who needs to post more:

Rand
CTD - gone for now
BrazeGoesMoo
Lowell