NY 166: Knight-Errant 18p - Game Over!
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KX Goon
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KX Goon
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Hello my fellow players, I know you've missed me in my absence, but I believe I can finally grace you with my presence!
First off, not strictly relevant, but this is actually my seventh game here on mafiascum, 8 is you count a marathon game. Of those seven, I subbed out of one early on, so really doesn't count, was force subbed out of a second since I couldn't keep up, and subbed into one late game. So yeah, I think I count as being a player on this site, though it's true I probably wouldn't have joined this if not for Fege.
Moving along, posts #132 and #133 are interesting to me.
Specifically, what about this I don't like is that some of the information we get from the wagon which fegelein talks aboutABDEL BANDWAGONING ME IS NOT SCUMMY. IT'S AN RVS WAGON, I DON'T MIND BEING BANDWAGONED EARLY GAME, BECAUSE SOMEBODY HAS TO AND IT GETS US SOME INFORMATION.isthat abdel is scummy, and yet fegelein uses the fact that abdel gave us information that he was scummy as a reason for why he isn't scummy. This is just exceptionally poor logic, and I'm curious as to if there's an explanation.
Also in #132,
QFT.An annoying part of this game is that majority of the first 6 pages of posts are stupid fluffy posts.
@Vifam,
at the time of that post, I had a total of one post in the game. As far as I can tell, the inactivity is the only thing you could use for the read. I'm not certain about others (can be if you wish) but I know for sure that the same could be said of at least HD, so why make a post about me? The only thing I can think of was myself being mentioned in another post recently, where it was said that the person would like to hear more from me. If that's it, then my question becomes why only evaluate players called out by others, not the entire game?10 bucks says KX is scum also
Also, to comment on some other events, while I find Abdel's behavior to be quite scummy, as far as I know, regardless of alignment he tends to think of himself first, and not be the most thoughtful or experienced on in the bunch, and so can't get a read on him yet. What I want to know is why others of the "group" have failed to mentioned this fact.
Oh yeah, VOTE: notscience, you've proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that you're here, do something. I've played with you before, you aren't this fucking bad. Same goes for Vifam to an extent, though at least they've shown a few opinions, and no meta I believe.-
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KX Goon
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KX Goon
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- Posts: 502
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- Location: Universe, Virgo Supercluster, Milky Way Galaxy, Sol, Earth
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KX Goon
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- Posts: 502
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KX Goon
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KX Goon
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@Fegelein, What I meant by this was, in general, what do you think reacting well is, and after that was going to ask "if you have a clear cut idea of what reacting well is [and we agree that it's reacting well] in such a low pressure situation, doesn't that mean the exercise should be worthless for determining your alignment?," however, you took it to mean in your personal case, which imo seems like a townie move, even if a misunderstanding, scum would probably want to avoid talking about how they set themselves as town for various reasons. Point being, you can be town.In post 173, KX wrote:What do you define reacting to it "well" as anyway?
And, @NotSci:In post 157, notscience wrote:My mommy says I can be anything I want to be when I grow up
I decided to become a pokemon
You're voting me for PL reasons when you have a scumread, which is scummy btw.
What the fuck kind of reaction to being told to step it up and an implication of being scum is this?In post 159, notscience wrote:No, he's scum because his role PM says so
Literally, first you fluff, then claim my reason for voting you is bad,make upthat I have another scum read (read; I didn't say I did, and when asked who he meant, nosci never responded), and then proceed to call the person who called you scum and a bad player scum themselves, except you have no reasoning.-
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KX Goon
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God I've started make a post for this game four times in the past two days and gotten interrupted mid way through it every time, I'm going to get this done.
Ok way back on page 11, @Evil Regals, if by case you mean #266, then sorry, but your time was wasted. Your fallacy is false cause. while it may be true that not sci hasn't self voted as scum, (you have an incomplete sample size so even that can't be said for sure), there is no reason at all why hecan'tself vote as scum, and so that defense completely fails. More then that, I really don't know what to say to you. As for my case, he is here, he has been doing next to nothing helpful, he lied about me to make me look scummy and reacted to getting called scum by calling the accuser scum, and then didn't defend or explain himself about any of it. I don't care if you're town and trolling because you want reactions, you can't use that as a clean-all excuse for everything scummy you're doing. Until he explains himself and does something, he can be nothing but scum in my eyes.
@Shattered, why are you wasting time by asking about the puzzle, and what's wrong with HD?
@Fegelein, what has Shattered done other then next to nothing and being annoying, like quite a few others in this game?
@Beast, iso me, check what I say about notsci, tell me how it changes your opinion.
Also @everybody what the actual fuck I've been looking over ISOs and it seems like half our players have posted nothing of value in the last 100+ pages. There were actually some other things I wanted to do, but give me a little while to think about them.-
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KX Goon
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@beast, while I admit I haven't been very influential, I have spent quite a bit of time on this game and have reads, or at the very least thoughts, on most players. However, a player named Wisdom has managed to convince me it's not best to share all reads you have, so now i'm trying to figure out how to test those reads. In addition, my main reason for stating people need to do more was that many haven't posted in so long, and I think the fact that I said it proves, in that regard, that i'm doing better.
@NotSci, so you're claiming that you're going to continue in activity which does the town no good, and atbestis distracting? Seriously, I can understand a "no scum would be this bad" attitude, but how has this not gotten votes? He might as well be claiming scum. Heck, claiming scum would be better than this since at least it would be funny, and he might be doing other things.
On another note, i'm pretty proud of myself, I typed this on a DS.-
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KX Goon
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Eyup, this game is going to be a total clusterfuck. Embrace the madness Fege, embrace it.
Serious question though, why do we have to limit ourselves to a select few people? Wouldn't having a large range of different, diverse opinions to manage be better for scumhunting, even if it's more work to analyse?
And one question for all town or town-lean reading NotSci, how has anything he's done pointed to him being town? As far as I can tell, the only way to get to that reasoning is either Meta or some variation of "no scum would be that scummy" and it really seems like a lot of people are completely disregarding him due to that.
Anyway, not in the mood to post any sort of in depth wall right now, but I'll try to get to it later tonight.-
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KX Goon
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Ugh sorry for the inactivity, I swear I'll post something tomorrow, I keep putting stuff off because I know it'll take a long time, but I've been putting it off for days now, so no more. So that this post actually has a point, assuming I'm not remembering incorrectly, I think Katarina is quite likely scum, andunvote, thank you notsci, now just don't troll any more and keep up the /better/ work.-
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KX Goon
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KX Goon
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My deepest apologies Mod, replace at your discretion. As I have a few free moments, the very least I can do is post something I have in this game.
What I was talking about earlier with regards to Katarina seeming scum was was thatEh, tbf I don't have a super set read on you and Vifam atm. I'm entertaining the possibility of masons because..
You two fit that the most at the moment.
While in this obviously scummy due to the potential role-fishing involved, the logic behind it doesn't really add up either. The obvious reason to assume two people trolling as masons is that they'd get a lot of reactions from it, and so information, and in the event that one of them were to be lynched, the other could then claim and prevent a mislynch from happening. However, no reason is ever given, at then in the second quote, that possibility is directly contradicted. The logic that would could claim to avoid a lynch doesn't work at all for scum, since claiming scum would just make the person even more likely to be lynched. That means they must have drawn their conclusion of mason in some other way. This way can be found by comparing what scum and mason's have in common, however, all they have in common is the ability to talk to each other, and I at least don't see how two people being able to talk to each other would make them any more likely to play similarly, and even if it did, I don't see why such a weak accusation should be throw out when in effect it's also role fishing of a kind. From a scum perspective though, it makes a modicum more sense, trying to pin down power roles, and when it falls through trying to dismiss your attempt with another comment, and throw some suspicious on the people in question. To support the latter theory, looking at the tone of the two posts, the first is somewhat hesitant in nature as if trying to tread carefully on the issue, while the second has an instant hint of hostility. These things, in addition to other things, makes me believe them to be scum.You asked for my opinion, you got it. I'm just entertaining the whatever I had in mind. You both shitposted clear enough to at least entertain the possibility of it, or a scum team.
Also, I know I've done this to death already, but NotSci is seriously ringing scum, not just for the PL-style stuff. Somebody needs to make an actual case against them. 5 am right now though, just wanted to say what I noticed that I don't believe anybody else mentioned.-
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KX Goon
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This was because I believed I was going to be subbed out, and didn't see the point in making a pointless vote. As this is not the case however,In post 815, dopog wrote:Also KX you didn't vote kat....Vote Katarina.
With regards to Shattered, please look at his meta. Even a quick glance shows that this seems to be his play-style, and while I admit that some of his logic is just plain bad, such as
which is basically "I've not doing much so don't lynch me, and a little redirection." Also, as a counter, the mere fact that you're up for a lynch means people will be giving opinions on you, and so are interacting with you. Point being Shattered does seem scummy, but the main reason people seem to have is actually null, and what more there is is minimal compared to Katarina, or even other suspects.I should NOT be the lynch for today, primarily because there has not been substantial interaction between me and other players. My flip (which will be town) will not be as information-rich as, say, Katarina's flip. Or notscience's flip.
Major scum points to Beast if Katarina flips scum.-
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KX Goon
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KX Goon
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Hey Katarina, it might help your case if you would defend yourself a little, try to explain some of the reasons people have for calling you scum and such. Also, for Metal, the breadcrumbing thing seems at least not out of the ordinary, and I'm not really seeing how he's more controlled, his posts just have a little bit more relevance while not being walls. That said, I love you too Metal.-
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KX Goon
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KX Goon
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KX Goon
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KX Goon
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Glad to see you finally got this rightKX is V/LA until the 20th.
Anyway,
Why?In post 945, The Purple Rose wrote:
This one deserves death.In post 923, KX wrote:V/LA for a few days
Also god I feel like half this town is scum. Will sort it out and explain later.
On Purple rose actually:
Same reasoning used for some of the Katarina vote, why mention a scumteam when a mason would be the obvious conclusion, so while the reason has been proven to not be definitively true, still makes me somewhat suspicious. Figured I'd point this out.He doesn't think they are a scumteam, no, they look like masons.
Ignoring the obvious insulting, how is it scummy? I think it was legit point, and even if not, how is it scummy? Also, to top it all off, the question wasn't even directed at me specifically, so it's not a bullshit question dodge like you seem to be implying.In post 388, The Purple Rose wrote:
This is the scummy way to respond to a question. It might work with your mother, here you have to look like a grownup.In post 340, KX wrote:@Shattered, why are you wasting time by asking about the puzzle, and what's wrong with HD?
This was posted after the first quote. I'm glad to know Rose is excluding people who make scummy actions from her radar.KX was not on my radar but definately earned a spot.
Oh yeah, and I figure I should add in that reading over Rose's iso, she seems kinda scummy in general. Almost all of her posts are just quoting things and then saying "this is scummy," not really pushing things, only stating opinions. While stating opinions isn't scummy, quite the opposite in fact, it's scummy when it's all that you do. Makes it seem like you're doing things while not really contributing. Also, her reasons for the Fegelein vote were dubious at best, and there's quite a bit of hypocrisy in the statements she makes about Abdel.
That said,Vote: NotScience, this still needs to happen. Will prob be making a case for it next post.-
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KX Goon
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@Marquis, in the event of a fake bulletproof claim, a commuter could counter claim, and bulletproof can also counterclaim a commuter. Also keep in mind that the mafia gets two power roles of their own from that table, so they would know the set-up in part. For instance, if the mafia had a watcher and a godfather, then they'd know for sure that there isn't a town doctor or tracker. Another thing to keep in mind is that commuter is a role which has a very convenient excuse for not getting nightkilled, so if we were to lynch beast we should probably do it sooner rather then later. The only thing is that if we were to lynch him, we should wait one night, and if anybody has a gun use it. There are only three set-ups which include a commuter, and based on fegelein's death we can assume it's not the JK one. Other options are a town cop or a gunsmith, and a shot/lack of shot would prove there is/isn't a gunsmith. If a player with a gun does shoot and doesn't hit, then it's still a win situation since the only way for a shot to fail would be hitting a bulletproof, and all bulletproofs with a commuter are scum. Point being, if there is not a shot and nobody claims a shot failing, we can assume that Beast isn't likely to be a commuter. Of course things could still go wrong with it just being an inspector/commuter setup, the jk being dumb and not going on fegelein, a gunsmith not using their action/using it on a scum, the shooter's kill overlapping with a scums, etc, but all of those are unlikely while it would offer additional assurance for a lynch to go though.-
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KX Goon
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@Marquis, because vacation, no more having to get used to school. Also, on the SV issue, people seem to be taking his hammer as a major scum tell, and while I admit it's scummy, I don't think it's as much so as everybody is saying it is. It's not like he tried to hammer before a claim got out, and he didn't even hammer, could have been planned as a reaction test. He mentioned hammering in the post as well, so it's definitely not like an accidental thing. My point is, he saw Beast's claim, hammered anyway, and left no doubt about hammering. Tbh, I think the hammer actually makes a lot more sense from a town perspective then a scum one, even if the voting without giving other people the change to change opinions is undoubtedly anti-town. Let's face it, if Beast flipped town after a post like that for hammer, the main debate of the next day would be are we quick-lynching SV or making use of the day. For a scum, voting a partner right after they claimed, before even seeing if people bought it or not, would be pretty dumb, and I doubt a scum would commit suicide to vote out a PR, especially when the team is already down by one. For a town though, if they were really convinced Beast was scum, I could see it happening, and if you thought the person would get away with it afterwards, you have the chance to take the entire power of the village into your hands, why not. It's selfish, but if that's how you think, so there's a possibility for it to make sense. Only other possibility is mafia hammering somebody who they know is SK or vice-versa. Anyway, point is, one of the two should probably die today, but don't think we should be hasty with deciding which.
and @Beast, no, just if somebody has a gun to definitely use it. Also checking role PMs, fuck, turns out gunsmith is an investigator, screw that. Why would a firearms maker have the ability to check if someone has a gun, and only once per night? I was acting under the assumption that gunsmith was basically a nightkill/daykill inventor, nvm. For your reasoning though, in the second case, how would the scum take out 2 town PRs?-
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KX Goon
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I like how shattered conveniently disappears afterwards. In the event that it was a fakehammer, he'd definitely want to stick around for the repercussions. Also, looking over Beast's ISO, I'm inclined to believe his claim due to the PR mention earlier on, don't see why how he was supposed to react as a PR would come into the thought process otherwise. The ISO does confirm a scumread on beast thought. Also, even if it seems completely contrary to normal thought, can we lynch SV first and if he flips anything aside from scum lynch Beast? Will elaborate later.
Also holy fuck, thinking about my reads, that moment when Metal Sonic is near the top. This is going to be a fun game >.>-
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KX Goon
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KX Goon
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KX Goon
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And I like how, after supposedly fakehammering, which would be done for information and reactions, he shows up and what he says is not what he gained from the fake hammer, but that of course it was a fake hammer.In post 1065, Shattered Viewpoint wrote:I see that you are all painfully unfamiliar with my patented fakehammer gambit.
@Eddie, my question is kinda an important one for you.-
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KX Goon
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KX Goon
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Holy fuck shattered, you've now made a total of three posts after your fakehammer doing nothing but stating the obvious to defend yourself. If you're so interested in getting information and being helpful that'd you risk yourself, why not be helpful now anddo something useful?. If I hadn't already decided to vote you on theory before, I'd vote you again now for just being scummy.
And why is Metal the one with the most votes atm? Unlike in NotSci's case, while the trolling bugs me, I think MS reads town lean/null at least. Seems the main things he's done that are scummy/could be found scummy are the softclaim, trolling, and then this vote. The softclaim wasn't really a softclaim at all, and imo it seems like pressing something perceived as a softclaim would be the more harmful thing, the trolling was quite obviously trolling, and given the posts MS made after voting SV, it's clear he thought it was a failed hammer attempt. Meanwhile, for town, a lot of my personal read is meta, but at the least he seems to be trying to actively scumhunt. On that though Metal, some more relevant content would be nice.-
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KX Goon
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Oh god there is so much wrong with your vote on me. If I'm getting this right, your reasons are: My attacks on SV are bad, I've over-explained myself, I had a gut read, and PV lurked D1 so you believe me and HD are scum as well.
Let's do this in order.
1. You have yet to say why my attack on SV is bad. I believe I already explained my reasoning in previous posts, if you're not able to understand it though, tell me and I'll restate it in a simpler fashion.
2. In the specific case you cited, when two people are trolling, and you state one is town, and one is scum, if that's it, there's something wrong with you. I'm not an idiot, and was able to see quite clearly how one might take that. I preemptively answered any questions related to it that may have been asked. More in the next answer, but I have history with Metal, and his trolling caused me to mess up big time once, so it's something I would think about when considering him. On top of all that, considering thinking your posts over isn't even inherently scummy, though I can see why you'd question it. Also, the whole point of posting something like that is to convince people, so tbh it's really dumb to not think about/care at all what people think.
3. I normally avoid gut reads for the reason you stated plus they're not that helpful in convincing other people, however, I've hydra'd with Metal, played in many games with him, hosted games he's been in, been in games he's hosted, and more outside of a mafia context, so yeah, I can't help it if I can get a gut read on him. Also, my read wasn't only due to gut, I made several solid opinions about what I think of actions people call him scum for, and gave one reason for why others might want to consider him town. Point being, I'm specifically trying to avoid just saying "because gut," since I know it's not helpful.
4. Just because one scum acts in a certain way doesn't mean all scum act in that way, in fact it's a logical fallacy, so your entire premise is, put simply, bs. However, on top of that, I believe I have a legit excuse for inactivity over that time period, and multiple outside sources can verify that I was inactive over that time period in all factions of the internet. Also, unlike PV, who (I believe) was active in other place on this site before death, or HD who's been generally inactive and remains inactive (hosting a game though), notice that now that my reason is gone I return to activity.
k, thanks, come back with a better case.
And tbh I agree with you on the HD thing, though there's not really much to go on atm, mainly inactivity/not living up to meta/a few bad posts.
@NotSci, fucking fine, I get it, you want the case. It'll be here soon. Also, fuck you, I'm not a newb ether.
PEDIT: hang on, new marquis post, will get to that in a hour or so, busy now.-
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KX Goon
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KX Goon
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KX Goon
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KX Goon
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KX Goon
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Fuck it, maybe one of SV/Beast is scum, but this right here is definitely scum.In post 1137, notscience wrote:
Active lurking-In post 1129, KX wrote::active lurking, lack of committed or explained reads, exception a townie who you lynched, and hypocrisy on calling others out on the first two counts while you yourself are guilty of them. Note that none of these things are PL reasons
I don't do things your way. I do them mine. That does not mean lurking, especially when in your "case" you edit the facts to help it.
please tell me where I edit the facts to help my case. If you mean the whole treating fluff posts as not-existing, once again, taking into account the large amount of fluff posts actually makes you seem scummier, but since it's a kinda PL reason, I haven't included it.
Lack of committed/explained reads-
I've said who I find scum, what else do you need? Explanations are overrated anyways.
"I really hate when people just go "because gut" (example: eddie) because it allows for scum to throw out town sounding reads without fully committing to any reasoning that takes genuine town motivation to write up and that could be read into later on." Gut, and no explanation at all are basically the same thing except with gut you can possibly be making a decent meta argument.
I have no clue what exception a townie means
reading over, I thought you seemed quite commited to the Katarina lynch. I'm saying, with the exception of her lynch, you didn't really press any other reads.
Not really guilty of them, but nice try though
I believe this is the first post you made that doesn't fall under worthless/trolling. Yeah. That's called hypocrisy.In post 101, notscience wrote:No shit he is, he's lurking the uck out of this game
though not an originally listed reason, I call that post pretty damn hypocritical.In post 297, notscience wrote:Comments on the actual game, please.
I like how you demand people give specific reasoning about why you yourself are scum, but often don't give explanations for your own scumreads.In post 333, notscience wrote:Why exactly am I scum?
You even fucking admit the hypocrisy right here, so don't go back on it now.In post 465, notscience wrote:Everyone not posting content should start because only I'm allowed not to :>
I just fucking love this quote, it's amazing really. Anyway, there are probably more examples, but I'm going to stop now. I definitely see how you aren't guilty of being a hypocrite NotSci.In post 469, notscience wrote:
1) Antitown=/=ScumIn post 468, EddieFenix wrote:See, NS, given the fact that you are trolling and such, it makes me see you heavily as Anti-Town... And my gut just screams you as scum...
2) If that's your case on me being scum you're probs scum without a logical townie reason for a vote
3) Give some content or else
These are PL reasons.
Active Lurking is definitively scum because it gives the impression of activity without actually producing anything. Not committing to reads helps a scum because it makes reading the scum harder, and allows them to cast votes without having to come up with a legit townie reason for voting. Hypocrisy is bad because if you find somebody scum over something, and you yourself are doing that thing, you're basically saying either your tell is wrong, or you yourself are scum/a bad player.
All of these reason make you scummy. None of the reasons are about bad play. Please learn the meaning of Policy Lynch rather then just screaming it any time somebody accuses you.A Policy Lynch is one that is done for arbitrary reasons. Most commonly, it describes the lynch of a player who is not found to be particularly scummy, but because the player's bad play will hurt the town later on.
And @Hop, Irdc if you do or don't, posturing about it is a waste of time and space in the thread.Also, I love that this is how you end your post. "I'm not a hypocrite!" "Hopkirk, posturing about it is a waste of time and space in the thread"Vote: NotScience. I want everybody who isn't voting NotSci to explain why they don't think he's scum.-
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@Meeps, why do you think the reasons I've listed, which are accepted as scummy, are not scummy in NotSci's case?
@Oriole, refutation coming soon, but to answer the main question, I believe an actual hammer to be a more town-minded action provided there are no extenuating circumstances. However, the more I think/thought about it, the more I doubt it would have been a hammer based on reads alone, and instead that there was some other motivation based around Beast's claim.
@Metal, for your post about what I and a few others thought, your wagon is bad (imo), and the mixed reactions towards your trolling vs NotSci's trolling by other players seems pretty damn weird. What do you think of the latter point?-
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Nice parrot. How am I tunneling? I was requested specifically to deal with a certain player who I outlined as scum, and have been supporting the case. As for the getting pissed off part, not only is that not a scum tell, if anything it's closer to a town tell, emotion shows caring etc, but when you have a very strong scum read on a player, and the best people can give you for why said player isn't scum is "gut," then who wouldn't be pissed off? Also, no offence Beast, but is that really the best you can give when suggesting a specific target for lynching with only two days left? Also, so far you've said Metal and me are good lynches, care to give anything else?-
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Dopog, wasn't that, like, fuckin' exactly my theory, except mine covered more cases, the subject fit better, and overall it made more sense? And if you really think Eddie is SK, shouldn't we lynch him first, eliminate a kill etc?
VOTE: HD
not one of my top three, but oh well, I don't object, kinda like it actually, and no last reads is pretty damn scummy.-
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tbf, that was four pages ago when you didn't have any votes on you. And around that time you criticized Marquis and Abdel as well, going so far as to imply Marquis as scum. There are four scum left in the game, so thoughts on people other then those three? And any strong town reads you wouldn't like to see lynched? Idk HD, I'm just not seeing any wish to help at all, which is weird for you.-
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@Oriole, the three main points you seem to have are: A. the contradiction between saying that a fakehammer was obvious, but in other places showing doubt in it and using it as a reason for my suspicion. B. showing doubt in it being a fakehammer, and then saying an actual hammer attempt seemed townie, but still calling scum. C. NotSci being the single scummiest person, but my not making a case for him ASAP.
Should be relatively simple. For A, it's just a misunderstanding. What I meant when I said the fakehammer was obvious was that SVclaimingit was a fakehammer was the obvious choice for him. Even if a legit hammer attempt seems more like something a town would do, it's also extremely anti-town in nature. And as for the lying problem in saying something other then what it was, if you'd lynch somebody like that, I doubt you'd have any qualms with lying.
B. The key there is that a hammer like that only seemed townie if it was based purely on reads. I doubt it was actually a fakehammer, reaction doesn't seem right at all as if it was, and so I'm guessing the more likely option is that SV knew Beast's claim was a fakeclaim. Now, it could be because SV is a PR, Scum, or SK, doesn't really matter. Either way, Beast is confirmed PR/Scum, while there is a slight chance SV is just an idiot townie, hence why SV should be lynched first. If SV is a PR, then he just claims before lynch, and Beast is lynched instead. If it is either of the SK or Scum possibilities, then good for us, it pretty much confirms both players as scum.
That kinda brings me into point C. I personally think some form of counter-claim option is far more likely then a fakehammer, and still more likely then an idiot townie, meaning odds are both SV and Beast are scum. You'll notice I was planning on having a NotSci case be my top priority until the fakehammer thing came up. I personally think two likely scum, one of who would be SK, is a better option then one player who, I admit, could be just plain awful at this game.
Does that explain everything?-
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hey meeps, hint, anybody who isn't confirmed town is a better lynch then a no lynch. at worst we lynch an inactive town and gain information, and at best we lynch scum. this is basic, a no lynch is almost the worst thing town can do in a NOC.
@HD, I suppose not, but wagon analysis is pretty common among those about to be lynched. Thought maybe you'd have gained a little insight. Did you know, HD, that implying town reads are scum can be pretty damn confusing for those trying to find your opinions? And you still haven't explained who your pick for the fourth scum would be.-
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also, I figure it would be a good idea to mention that Beast posted in another game at :27, so he's confirmed avoiding HD's wagon despite claiming to be fine with voting HD to prevent a no lynch earlier on in the game.
@HD, are those three reads neutral, scum lean, town lean. please, detail. And I suppose asking for reasons would be too much? Forgive me, I had no clue you didn't like wagon analysis. And forgive me, you're right on the second point, I misread #1139-
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ms . . . I can't tell if you're stupid, brilliant, both, or neither. Why the fuck not claim when he was at L-1 >.> As far as I can tell, it'd "clean" you just as much at that point. And now, with Beast basically conf-scum anyway, the only advantage of possibly bating a kill would be gone. Seriously, if not for the fact that scum are down by two, so it wouldn't make sense to counter-claim now as scum, and that Beast is, as mentioned, basically conf-scum, I might consider voting you.
marquis . . . no question here, plain stupid. ok, so let's recap. we have two people counter-claiming each other, meaning one of the two is confirmed for scum, and one of these two peopletwicemade fake votes against a flipped mafia with mere minutes left until deadline, in addition to making excuses for not being present in the thread while being present in other threads. so, what do you do? you vote the player who you know will go to extreme lengths to get a lynch, going to far as to vote people who's lynch they highly disagree with, or posting during the night and risking godkill to protest a no-lynch, and who youhosteda game for in which they lost simply because people weren't around for deadline, with reasoning no greater then "this desperateness seems like bussing, and they haven't done anything very town." May I remind you that you yourself called me helpful earlier on, and also, what happened to the reasons you had for voting me previously? I'm sorry, but now it's my turn to ask what the actual fuck?-
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@NotSci, your logical fallacy is Ad Hominem. Ad hominem attacks can take the form of overtly attacking somebody, or more subtly casting doubt on their character or personal attributes as a way to discredit their argument. The result of an ad hom attack can be to undermine someone's case without actually having to engage with it. Using Ad Hominem is generally regarded as something exceptionally scummy. So, I'll take that as a no, you haven't come up with a defense yet. Also, since when am I not trying to lynch you, and care to back up your claim of me as scum with reasoning?
@Metal, you are aware of this games set-up, correct? There are four PRs, two Masons, who are guaranteed to be in the set-up, and then two other PRs who's roles are determined by a chart on the first page. Also, I believe that the serial killer has a one-shot strongman, so you actually aren't killproof.
@Marquis, what the actual fuck again. There are only two mafia left. Beast is obviously mafia. Therefore, if I have a partner, that partner has to be Beast. And nowhere do I say "that's not fair, stop targetting me." Instead, I question your vote's anti-town nature, and show why your "reason" is shit. In regards to calling out HD, since when do me and HD play at all alike, and I believe I already explained why the D1 lurking thing was stupid. NotSci actually doesn't need to defend himself, since everybody appears to believe he's clean and I'm scum, but in general when somebody calls you scum, you either explain why you aren't scum, or get lynched for being scum.-
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