Mafia 63: Wolves - Game over!

[Miztef]

I'd just like to say hi to everyone in the game. I'm replacing coron and read the thread a week or 2 back, so I kinda forgot most of it... heh. I'll try to re-read sometime soon.

[Miztef]

I don't find the talitha push all too scummy. The game was at a snail's pace at that point, and there were no real scummy people to vote for. I probably would have said something like that.

Even now, after re-reading, I have no real indication of who looks very scummy.

There are some things I noted though:

Pooky's massive quote thingies, very annoying, I couldn't follow them well, and they didn't seem to provide as much substance as I'd thought they would. Same with theAdmirals giant quote walls. Ancalagon said it best I believe:

Pooky's arguments are ridiculous.

Twito's by far the worst sarcasm/joker. I don't think any of his posts have real substance, he might as well be lurking, and if they do have real substance, It got jumbled in the mess of "I'm drunk" and "I'm on vacation" posts. I get the feeling this is how he usually plays, but I just don't like it at this time.

I do like Battle mage's and Jingolaw's posts for the post part. I'm inclined to think these players are pro-town, but that could easily change. More people should post in a manner as reasonable and clear as theirs.

[Miztef]

This arguement between talitha and BM seems like a married couple bickering to me, it's going no where, and the wife will win anyway. Talitha's decision to try and push the "dead weight killing" is fine in my books. There was a deadline, and low participation, not much could be done anyway. I do agree with BM that talitha's vote was a little OMGUS though.

About Jordan's mistake with the "no more votes". I think this is another perfectly reasonable townie mistake, and I don't think it makes him any more scummy. Skruffs vote for Jordan was a bit speedy though, I would think that mistake only constitutes a FOS at most, I think that's part of Skruffs playstyle though, and it is only the beginning of the day, so it's not really a big deal.

[Miztef]

I also am frustated with the lack of knowledge as to fircoal's and other player's identities. Out of the 3, sorcerer would seem the most out of place, but this could mean a power role for all we know. Nothing about Fircoal's play really strikes me as condemning, and so I am on the fence as to whether he was town/scum.

We should treat this day as worst case scenario which means 4 or even 5 scum/antitown players are alive.

I don't think there is more then 1 anti-town group though, expect the possibilty of SK or even, pray to the lovin lord no, a cult leader. I'm inclined to believe twito was killed by a vigilate rather then an anti-town group though, because of the cause of death (shot).

[Miztef]

you know, even though pooky's post is in good humor, I can't help but feel annoyed. Some players may firmly believe fircoal was scum, which I think we should not base any decisions on. That is what I meant by my statement.

[Miztef]

sorry miz

i really dont understand your post

could you elaborate please?

Alright, I will.

We should treat this day as if every possible scum/antitown posistion is still alive. Even if you firmly believe fircoal or who ever else is dead is scum/antitown, we can't afford to rush into a decision with the idea that we have alot of lynches left. if there is 5 antitown players (I don't think there would be more then that, considering the hidden role upon death) then we could be at 8:4:1 (4 being the wolves, 1 being an anti-town of some sort) or maybe 8:3:2. if we mislynch today and 2 townies are NK, then we are at 5:4:1 or 5:3:2 tommorow (both are LYLO I believe).

In concludsion, because of the hidden roles, we need to be much more careful then usual, because we have less information then a normal game and we could be serverly close to losing at any time.

I hope that explains my reasoning well enough.

[Miztef]

I was re-examining the fircoal lynch, and I think we should look into N9V, Dragons of Summer and Battle Mage a bit more.

~N9V~

's hammer seems a fine pro-town hammer to me, we needed a lynch, he provided it. I would have liked a bit more reasoning behind it, but he was correct in choosing a lynch vs. no lynch.

Dragons of Summer:

Okay some thoughs on people with more than one vote on them.

Fircoal:

I find him to be the scummiest of the choices right now because he has shown a lack of concern for helping the town at all this game. Also because he feels all the justification that is needed for his vote on BM is:

And Battlemage, I'm voting you because I like voting people named Battle Mage

I can see that as a joke at one point, but after being asked a few more times for reasons he still hasn't provided any.
I also really don't like this post:

I think we should focus on another lurker without an excuse.

It reeks of oportunism to me.

So I will

Vote Fircoal

Good explaination behind his vote, but I'm concerned that if he is scum he can take advantage of no reveal deaths and get away with pushing a lynch and not looking bad in the aftermath.

BattleMage:

I do like battlemage as a player, and believe he is excellent as pro-town. However, that goes the same for being scum.

good point. his unwillingness to contribute to the game smells a bit odd. Must be scum

Vote: Fircoal

My gut says battlemage is protown, but this vote seems a bit overconfident.


God I wish I knew if fircoal was scum or town, but right now, I'm acting under the loose assumption he was town. I'm not saying any of these players should be lynched, but they were all on the fircoal lynch and thats makes me want to do some investigating into their motives. Any comments on these players?

[Miztef]

I think pooky is going a bit overboard with BattleMage, but theopor's info is a bit disconcerning, although it doesn't provide enough solid evidence that BM is scum for me to vote him. I'm happy putting out a

FOS: BM

though.

[Miztef]

I don't understand Pooky's FOS on me here, not that I understand much of what Pooky does.

Are you saying I'm trying to stop people from voting Battle Mage? If so, I can tell you that I honestly don't think Battle Mage is scum at this time, and that's why I'm not voting him. The evidence against him is limited at best, and Jordan makes a fine point that BM has had some helpful content.

[Miztef]

My guess is that 324 is directed at you theopor, because your post mentioned you were voting to pressure BM. Just my humble opinion though.

@skruffs: Can we get a clearer explaination as to your vote on Jordan? You mention something about page 3, but besides that I can't find any further explaination, care to enlighten?

[Miztef]

@pooky: well, I think he deserves a bit of observation, but I'm not going out with my pitchfork yet. I think that's better then just outright lynching Battlemage on principle as you said to do.

but fine, just to make you happy, I'll

unFOS: Battle Mage

. There, now if he gets lynched without me voting him and turns out scum, I have no ass cover-up.

[Miztef]

[quote="PookyTheMagicalBear"]

The only possibility in my mind is that you are a scumbag who is trying to cover his ass.
/quote]

Yet you don't vote me. I don't see how you can accuse me of all these things and are spewing contridictions yourself.

I think I've spent enough time defending against your ridiculous accusations and I'm going to get back to finding scum.

[Miztef]

@pooky/theo/anyone else who thinks BM is scum: Due to your feelings that BM is scum, would that imply that you see fircoal as town? I would think that in a game this large, scum would not vote off scum day 1 if it's only 5 votes to lynch.

My impression is that fircoal was town, but I'm not sure if that's what the rest of the town thinks.

@BM: What exactly do you think of Pooky/Theo's accusation against you?

To me, their accusation that BM is scum has very little basis, and I'm going to need more then a bunch of quotes that prove little to sway me to vote BM.

[Miztef]

well, the same can be said about your mishap post 320. That seems a bit odd, see skuffs post 324 about it.

Or how about Jordan's mishap? (which at least you referred to)

Twito's ridiculous vote on pooky for "putting effort to a game" is yet another.

Or even pooky's own campaign against BM with little clear-cut evidence.

It just seems everyone is "acting odd" doesn't it? I don't see why my FOS seems so bad in your eyes, although I do kinda get that pooky believes anyone protecting BM in anyway is super scummy, if he is truely convinced BM is scum.

Although I said I wouldn't, here is my final explaination for my FOS on BM:

I saw 2 votes for BM. Although he is not high on my scumlist, I felt giving him another nudge (my FOS) would get some reaction out of him. Reaction = intell. I definately wasen't going to get a reaction out of DoS or ~N9V~ when no one else was paying any attention to them, so I felt the best way to further push the game was pressuring BM.

[Miztef]

@BM: Why do you say Talitha's vote is riduculous? I find it reasonable to vote Jordan, he has made a mishap and if your gut tells you, why not follow it? I don't really agree, but I certainly don't find it one of the more ridiculous actions I've seen in this game.

[Miztef]

I'm also seeing alot of non-participants, maybe Talitha/~N9V~/Jordan/BM are scum, but we should also look into getting input from lurkers before we get too close to lynching one of them.

Where's input from Niepie, Ancalagon, Fielding Melish, and Dragons of Summer? I want 1 decent content post from all these players (or at least most) before we all start giving cookies and whatnot.

[Miztef]

@niepie: Really? Skruffs seems to be one the most helpful players, he's been pointing out bad play after bad play in this game. A little wishy washy with who he thinks is actually scum, but I at least find his posts helpful.

I do agree that Skruffs saying Jordan was being opprotunistic was a stretch, but it's easily something pro-town players can do.

Unfortuntely, I don't have anyone I agree is really scummy at this time. Most people have only made 1 small slip-up and nothing else, which isn't enough to be very suspicious of them.

[Miztef]

You know Talitha, it's probably not best to send out a possible OMGUS vote when your under suspicion. It is also not usually in the town's favor to attack inactives, because it is unlikely it will lead anywhere (I learned this the hard way).

That said, can we get a

prod: Melish

[Miztef]

I don't understand your question talitha (about the prod). If he's inactive, we should try to get him active, it's simple as that isn't it? I don't see how a prod makes it harder to tell if he's lurking or not....

[Miztef]

please don't make this into any kind of flame wars guys.

I'm kinda suspicious of Talitha right now, because of that latest prod comment in addition to eariler suspicion of her. Jordan doesn't seem very scummy to me, but Theo's attacks are a bit harsh to me, which I could see as really scummy, or really pro-town. I think I'll go with my gut and say it's scummy though.

Unvote Vote: Theopor_COD

[Miztef]

I kind of don't like Jordan's vote on skruffs, as I feel it is more OMGUS and an emotional vote rather then much evidence agaisnt him.

It's a toss up between Theo, Skruffs and Jordan for me at this time. Theo seems to just be doing his regular playstyle, so I am seeing a bit of the light in him (it's like a tiny wax candle in a gaint cave though) Skruffs play seems inconsistant and sometimes just a little too harsh, but overall he has been one the of the most helpful players. Jordan....... Jordan..... Jordan..... I just don't know what to think here. There's vote-hopping, weird votes, odd speculations, and incosistances, but all in all, nothing major. I know I do scummy things all the time without even knowing it, and I feel that Jordan may be in that same posisiton, as a pro-town.

At this time, I have to pick theo out of all the choices as my most scummy. I'm gonna need a bit more of a push to switch my vote.

[Miztef]

LOL @ twito

I agree with jingolaw that the posts made by everyone are uninspiring. Alot chit chat, with little substance.

BM's comment about this not being Theo's normal playstyle seems overly confident. I have played with Theo before, and his playstyle here seems little different then in that instance (that game is not yet completed however, and I don't know if he is scum or not in that game).

I have liked alot of theo's latest posts, and will therefore

unvote

for the time being.

[Miztef]

Sorry BM, but I can't just take your word for it.

[Miztef]

Theo, has DoS been active in other games?

If not, I don't see why you interpret his inacitivity as scummish. IMO people who attack inactives are not being all that helpful, unless they have been surely lurking.

If he has been active in other games however, then he should post soon, cause he hasen't in a good long time.

[Miztef]

I'm still active, just a bit confused about what to do at this time.

I'm interested to see how the DoS situation turns out. It seems that he could be lurking, or possibly have some sort of post restriction.

I agree with skruffs that Jordan seems to be in a bit of a panic mode, but I could easily see that as a pro-town panic, not nessisarily scum.

I'm going to stick with not voting at this time.

[Miztef]

The sheer number of posts, many of which defensive, lead me to that concludsion.

That's not to say your being irrational, I just believe you feel all accusations against you are unfairly being presented. Therefore, it's become a bit of a panic for you.

Maybe that is a bit too harsh of a word for it though, frustrated is maybe a better term?

In any case, I don't feel it is scummy behaviour in itself.

[Miztef]

That's nice Shanba. I'm an easily persuaded guy, I'll admit to that, but outright voting me with intent to butcher.... that's a little over the top in my books.

I look forward to your reasoning behind it.

[Miztef]

@Shanba: that's a surprising amount of evidence you have against me.

I noticed in other games I've played that I take much too stong stances on things I don't really believe. It's just a habit of mine. So, this game, I tried to keep my susipicions at exactly the level they are, and be honest about all my thoughts on others.

My thoughts are also very, very easily persuaded. I like to go along with the flow of the majority, it's easier and makes for more pressure on specific people.

Being as honest as I can, I have little idea of who is scum right now. I can understand the arguement against Niepie and Jordan the best so I think I will

Vote: Jordan

and

FOS: Niepie

. The arguement between Skruffs and BM seems like pro-town bickering (I think they have a history or something, I'm not too sure though). However, I also still have a nagging suspicion of DoS, ever since it came up that he was lurking, something about it just seemed wrong, and his new post is mostly neutral.

I have quite neutral feelings towards Jingolaw, N9V, and Theo at this time.
Your latest post against me actually makes me feel you are pro-town, becuase your taking such an odd risk, but since you are voting me, I can also see it as a smart scum move (I'm just getting into WIFOM here, so I won't eleborate). Anyone I haven't mentioned I have no real feelings for at this time.

[Miztef]

OMG... I made a big mistake,

unvote

.

Sorry Jordan, I was rereading someone else in another game that reminded me of your situation and used it as reasoning against you in my mind.

I'm so gonna get butchered for this mistake .

What I said in my eariler post is true, I have very little idea of who is scum right now. So, you know what, I'm just gonna stay with an unvote. Since I have no real case against anyone, I think that's the only fair action.

I have a small FoS on Niepie, but that's only because I rechecked those posts after attention was put on Niepie. I could see it as being somewhat scummy, but I honestly don't know.

My FoS on FoS also stays, but that's based almost solely on his lurking.

[Miztef]

ugh, this thing is pretty ridiculous imo.

I can see how Skruffs used that as a figure of speech, he doesn't *HAVE* to know Talitha is town (I'm not saying she is!) to say that sentence. He could easily be working under that assumption and worded it in that way. I know I try to think like scum would when analyzing a certain player's actions, and it is possible that Skruffs feels it is extremely unlikely Talitha and Jordan are scumbuddies. In that case, he would assume Talitha is Town and Jordan is scum. Countless times I've seen people scream "aDFAdfadvaf is scum!! I knoWZz ITz!" yet they don't really know. People make assumptions for the sake of helping their logic in the game.

Fine, it's suspicious, I understand that. I also see it as somewhat suspicious, but he could still be a mason/cop if he does truely know that Talitha is town in that case anyways. Stop Screaming bloody murder, it's just plain bad play to try to convince the town that way.

What seems actually scummy to me, is Jordan and Pooky and doing all these accusations and yet aren't voting Skruffs! Even after he has said he won't answer what his alignment/role is. If you're so convinced of this, why not vote him?

and hell, maybe I'm wrong about all this, maybe skruffs is the scummiest scum of all frickin time, but I think this evidence is not as concrete as some of you see it to be, and is not a valid reason to lynch Skruffs.

[Miztef]

Thanks Pooky, you seem to think anyone that disagrees with you is scum.

Do you not see the upsurdity of just claiming people are definate scum, especially for something like the wording of a sentence? You do this all the time Pooky (in other games as well) and I think it's just plain bad play, if not scummy. Maybe your looking for reations, I don't really know. However, I've seen a person write "If I were not scum" and not be lynched over, only a few suspcicious FoS's at most. At least they didn't blow it out of proportions, like you 2 seem to be doing.

Why has no one voted for Skruffs still? I totally don't understand this! You guys seem so convinced to the point of being your own religion, yet no one's doing anything about it. Are you waiting for some pro-town players to come on board and vote for him first?

Skruffs Post 527 makes sense to me. That's your answer. Not any of this A B or C stuff you keep instisting must be the case.

[Miztef]

oh, that is a bad mistake on my part, I kinda skimmed over your last post and misinterpreted. I was only looking from the point this thing came up. Sorry.

Well, it was mostly intending at Pooky anyway (Who I'm fairly sure isn't voting Skruffs).

Vote Count

please.

hmmm, I'm gonna have to reread Skruff's posts. I'm really struggling with this situation. I don't want to just go with the crowd just for the sake of doing so, but skruffs

was

under suspicion before this even happened, maybe there is something to this besides a sentence mess-up.

I would like to see some more opinions on this too though. I mean, at least half the players haven't even commented on it.

[Miztef]

lol theo, that's a pretty good summary. (I do agree with me needing to read the thread better)

This Niepie bandwagon needs a bit more evidence imo. Maybe I do need to recap myself on the evidence already presented though.

[Miztef]

I think ~N9V~'s statement could go either way. I really want to believe it on an emotional level, cause it just seems like he wouldn't do it as scum, but that's a bit WIFOM.

On a logical level, he could be lying or telling the truth, depending on his personality I suppose.

if it comes down to lynching ~N9V~, then I don't think we should automatically assume Pooky is scum if N9V turns out scum, but we would have a almost fully cleared Pooky if he turns out cop. Since he outed himself (if he really is a cop) though, the scum will likely kill him tonight (or pooky?). I am against lynching him though, because waiting for tommorow will bring either more information from him, or at least help in discovering his true identity (if the scum kill him).

In any case, this is the first real lead into something this game, so it's gonna be interesting.

[Miztef]

im not sure the scum would choose to kill N9V tonight. I mean he's about as far from being confirmed as you could expect.

I suppose, but if he's not on the scum team, then I really don't think he'd lie about being a cop. That's could push him/his replacement into LAL if it's discovered.

I think the only reasons the scum wouldn't kill him tonight is if:

1) new evidence that suggests he is really not a cop (and he's not scum)

2) They kill randomly for the sake of not leaving any clues to who they are

3) They find a more confirmed valuable power role

Even if he is a lying anti-town role (like an SK) then the scum would still have killed someone they don't want alive. (I think there is a really low possibility of this anyway).

I guess there's some other roles he could be that may have wanted to do this: Jester, one-shot investigator, traitor, others? but I think there's a high chance he's an actual cop, with a slightly less chance he is scum. Since the scum would know if he is scum or not, I'm pretty sure they'd believe his cop claim here, especially under the circumstances he said it in.

[Miztef]

sorry, I did forget about doc protects, that would be a big concern for the scum. Even innocent investigations are valuable to the town though, so I disagree with the first point. They may not need to kill him, but he would be the most valuable to kill.

I guess it really depends on what happens the rest of today.