NY 179: Cute and Fluffy Mafia (Town Win)

[d3x]

Vote:killapenwin

Like for realz.

[d3x]

That's a funny little OMGUS played off as RVS, pen. Why did you not Vote in your 1st post?

[d3x]

I had planned on Bus'ing him much later, but he just wouldn't leave well enough alone. He forced my hand.

[d3x]

I had planned on Bus'ing him much later, but he just wouldn't leave well enough alone. He forced my hand.

so the two of you are scum? Odd admission this early in the game.

That's certainly one way to read that post.

What are your thoughts on him {pen}?

[d3x]

Btw since busing involves one scum throwing his partner under a bus I'm not sure how I was supposed to read it other than as a claim that you guys are partners

Well, it could also be a joke playing off of DGB's post. Claiming Scum on page 1 and outing your partner are generally not things done legitimately around here.

@Yuni- Define "randomly voting" plz.

[d3x]

Just popping in for a short term dodge. I'll be reading/posting before I go to bed {in a few hours}.

[d3x]

--Thoughts--

Early issues with pen- CogDis with p60 in the context of p13. This is a big problem for me. p61 is also an issue. He over explains the IAI player list thing by dropping the Newb card, but completely avoids the OMGUS issue... again. Delves into a potentially distracting theory debate instead of doing the thing he's talking about doing. Further, he is still holding onto an RVS Vote while bemoaning the merits of the RVS.

@dragon44- Does pen's CogDis bother you as much as Yuni's?

@fire- Why do you keep explaining your RVSes? ...does not want.

@Peace64- Are you Voting because you see a VI PL in the making or because you legit feel he's scummy?

DudeWagon is fine, I guess. penWagon would be infinitely better. I'm not sure I get the FlubWagon.

[d3x]

@Mod

- Are we getting a replacement for Drake Crusader as well? ~1/4 of the Day has passed and {s}he's not posted a single time.

[d3x]

Hold up... did dragon call for a RoleClaim? Can you please link that, Dude? I think I missed it.

[d3x]

TDA is a alt account apparently and from the people he played with his got at least a year or two under his belt.

Garm, can you please tell me where you got this info?

[d3x]

And as I pointed out didn't even know him on page one where you made yo. Claim and started us down this rabbit hole.

I think that's a typo. Read this sentence with the 'yo. Claim' as 'your claim' and I think it makes more sense than 2 sentence fragments and a request for a Claim.

[d3x]

Dude- If you legit felt that this was a request for an L-4 Claim, why did you not discuss it for 3 pages?

[d3x]

At what point {L-?} do you feel it's not scummy to request a RoleClaim?

[d3x]

@Garmr- Word. I just wanted to make sure that you got that knowledge from somewhere... public.

[d3x]

I believe that's L-3 with 2 weeks left and 2 players that haven't posted even a single time.

While I think the outing of the Neighborhood was freaking stupid on Dude's behalf and Garmr should be ashamed for his part in it, I think the fallout points to TownDude. Scum would already know about the Hood if he was Scum. He'd have no reason to vomit that shit all over the thread.

[d3x]

If your assertion is that Dude is Scum... and he's

in

the Hood... well...?

[d3x]

That just doesn't track, man. I highly doubt the Neighborhood had pregame, but the Scum didn't. I also can't even remember a game where Scum didn't have pregame.

[d3x]

@Jogger&Garmr- If he was legitimately getting DayVig'ed and felt that Nero was Scum based on interactions in the Hood, he'd want that info out there for Town. I don't agree with his assessment of what happened in the Hood, but I don't think he's misrep'ing it.

@Garmr- I just peeked at the QT and you guys actually did have pregame chat according to the time stamps. The QT was opened and you were welcomed by the Mod a day before she closed it for the start of D1 {which she announced}. According to the postgame, you didn't read your RolePM until halfway through D1. That doesn't mean you didn't have pregame, dude. That means you didn't read your RolePM; it was your choice to handicap yourself.

[d3x]

@Jogger- How closely are you reading the thread?

[d3x]

@Jogger&Garmr- If he was legitimately getting DayVig'ed and felt that Nero was Scum based on interactions in the Hood, he'd want that info out there for Town. I don't agree with his assessment of what happened in the Hood, but I don't think he's misrep'ing it.

That's a pretty far-fetched line of thought, which you could easily have confirmation or denial for if you'd ask him, which you didn't so..

VOTE: d3x

I don't understand how any of that is far fetched at all. These are all things he's said in thread. Further, I don't know why I'd need to ask him... because these are all things he's said in thread.

@pen360- That's a pretty stellar mischaracterization. My Vote wasn't RVS, it just took place in the RVS. I called my Vote real and I meant it. Secondly, saying that I'm concerned with the Vote on me is a continued mischaracterization. It matters not who your Random Vote is on, the fact is that you state that you're pretty antiRVS as you see it as being proScum, but you not only participated in the RVS, you OMGUSed in the RVS. The OMGUS is scummy in and of itself, but if you truly believe the RVS is proScum, why are you participating at all? Finally, you are handwaving the entire event away as just more evidence that you should be allowed to continue a theory debate instead of actually doing anything. You're lukewarm on a large percentage of players, but haven't chosen to do anything about it. You're Null on the leading Wagon, but are more than happy giving intent to Hammer with an obscene amount of time on the clock, all the while refusing to develop that Read any further. Note- this is not the 1st time you've said you want to work on your Reads and haven't followed up with any content.

Here's our Lynch Today, kids.

@Garmr369- What do you think of the case on pen?

If d3x is town he would've wanted to get a definite townread on you by asking you if that was indeed the case.

This is false. He said it already, I don't need to ask him something that he's already said...

@dragon 374- You are missing the fact that the Hood had pregame chat. There's is almost a 0% chance that the Hood had it but the Scum didn't. Thus, if he's Scum he would've already told them about it, removing the necessity of saying it in thread to Out us to his ScumMates.

@Dude378- Actually, the biggest issue with leaking that information so early is that if you are wrong about Scum being in the Hood, it eliminates the need to PR Hunt 3 additional players in the game. This decreases the pool tremendously and gives them an even bigger chance at successfully hitting PRs with NKs. This is why Garmr should be ashamed, too. His antics out PRs D1.

@Jogger406- Absolutely nothing. It doesn't impact my Read on him either way.

-holding on to his penwin vote without developing his case past a flimsy cognitive dissonance thingy

This point interests me in particular. pen hadn't posted in between my laying out my case and the time you made this assertion. What exactly would you have me to do to develop my case when the target isn't posting?

VOTE: killapenwin

Interesting...

[d3x]

@Midget- That's an interesting sentiment coming from someone who's not providing much {read- any} content.

[d3x]

@anyone curious {mostly answering IAI's questions}- We don't have Daytalk, but we were open during pregame. There wasn't a whole lot said in the Hood by anyone. We weren't Neighborizered, we're just Neighbors. I wouldn't say that Nero was trying to Buddy me in the Hood, Dude just read a bit more into my posts than were actually there. Nero asked if there was anything that anyone wanted to discuss and I said some iRL stuff that will happen later in the year. Dude didn't catch the 'later in the year' bit and Nero thought Dude's reasoning was lame. That's pretty much it. We were in the process of trying to figure out Dude's main when the thread was locked.

@IAI- You didn't mention pen in your catch-up except to list him as Null. What do you think of my case? Why don't you come on over here, big guy... there's plenty of room between me and Garmr.

[d3x]

Not before I voted you he didn't.

Seriously, what the hell are you smoking, Jogger? Dude said that when he Claimed the Hood. Read it...

TDA I had enough of you was saving this to later but you said enough.

DayVig:TheDudeAbides

I'm neighbours with Nero and d3x. d3x is probably town, so lynch Nero.
If that's not enough, look at Nero's posts.

I need to say, in the neighbour QT, d3x started out by giving some out of game things that he wanted to talk about and they seemed like the sort of things that would be used to justify a lack of contributions. I attacked him for using out of game excused to preemptively justify lurking. He then said that they wouldn't afftect him this game, and then Nero acted eaither as though I should have been aware of those things in advance or that using out of game excuses isn't scummy. Either way, i don't think that it looks good for Nero, since the former is awful and out of game excuses is a pretty common scumtell. I think he was using the opportunity to buddy with d3x.

Point freaking blank. He Claimed because he thought he was DayVig'ed and wanted to out Nero. Are you sure that you're reading the thread?

@Jogger406- Absolutely nothing. It doesn't impact my Read on him either way.

In that case if you are scum then this was a convenient occasion for you to fluffpost.

This also doesn't make any sense. I said that the Hood had pregame and thus it stands to reason that Scum had pregame. Garmr refuted this by saying that he'd played in at least one game that didn't have Scum pregame chat. He linked it. I followed his link and Scum actually had pregame chat, he was mistaken because of the specific occurrences of that game. Asked/Answered. I don't feel that his answer impacted my followup question because I don't see how this would help him as either alignment. He disagreed with my thought process based on a faulty recollection of a game. How is that fluff? It directly speaks to my point that Scum, in all likelihood, have pregame chat. If Dude is Scum, he'd have already told his buddies that he was in a Neighborhood with me and Nero. Hence my TownRead on Dude in the aftermath of the fake DayVig.

You're really reaching, man.

To line up d3x's lynch for day2. <-- sounds scummy but I don't care.

How exactly would this setup my Lynch? Are you saying that you know pen is Town? You haven't said anything about my case on him, your argument against me is over Dude.

[d3x]

Oh, and by the way... if pen is Scum, so is midget.

[d3x]

Reasons.

[d3x]

That... makes even less sense than it did when I thought you weren't reading the thread. You keep moving the goal posts and your case on me is looking more and more irrational. I'm done with you. I have you as a slight Town/solid VI lean because I refuse to believe Scum would be pushing something this weaksauce. Vote me all you like or follow my Votes, I don't care.

[d3x]

@ d3x: You are not the only one that has IRL commitments and truth be told, there isn't much of anything happening at all in this thread

Point to where I've attacked you due to your posting frequency. Hint- I haven't.

all I seem to be seeing is TDA arguing with garmr with walls of text posts that no one except them are going to read.

Why are you saying this to me? Where have I indicated that any of this has any bearing on my Read of you?

I find it funny you talk of misrepresenting things

Why aren't you denying my accusations that you're mischaracterizing my posts? Does that mean that you're admitting it?

{you}

pick up on me saying I would hammer if needed and interestingly SUGGEST I meant quick lynch and yet you put my quote where I explained no intention of quick lynching? Curious.

Point to where I'm accusing you of wanting a quick Lynch. Hint- I didn't. I said you were willing to Hammer early without developing a Read on the Wagonee. Hammering early and Quick Lynching are two

very

different things. Throw in a super early willingness to Hammer someone you're Null about without trying to develop the Read and you have an easy-bake recipe for Scum.

All told, you haven't refuted a single point of my case against you. You haven't argued that it's without merit. You've moved on to Strawman'ing, but the funny thing is, you're defeating points that I'm not saying about you. And you're doing it poorly.

@all- Seriously, how does pen not have more Votes?

side note... Holy shit! Pacman, you live in Glendora? I'm in Burbank!

[d3x]

I have something to say to d3x, but it's best to leave it to after the game, I think. However, d3x is very obviously town and is never to be lynched.

Tell me in the Hood or I name thee a knave.

kpwn is a fine wagon.

Then join us, you're wasting your Vote over there.

[d3x]

If pen is Hammered before Kthx posts anything of significance, I'll be very put off.

[d3x]

@Kthx- Did you read a full Iso of me? It's not really that long and it covers the case on pen as well as why I believe Dude is Town. I'll answer any questions you have for me after you've read it.

[d3x]

I'm definitely not worried that 2 Votes will come in, I'm threatening anyone who plans on it. This has been a pretty slow game with a heap load of prods and 2 players who had to be replaced out before posting. We're about a week from the deadline and you just got here. We still need a 3rd replacement, but at least there's some content to go off of with that slot. In spite of the fact that I've been harping on pen this entire game, only recently have Votes started coming in. I didn't want anyone to get overly excited and pop off too soon, ridding us of

any

posts by your slot.

I would agree with DGB's sentiment that a QuickHammer before you started posting would be all but ConfScum. We still have a bit of time and there have been a few players jumping onto the Wagon with 0 reasoning. That in and of itself isn't really concerning me, but a Hammer would have eliminated your presence on D1 entirely. This would not be a Town action. Scum don't care if you post, they already know your alignment.

re: Nero- Meh. I'm largely ambivalent on Nero. In spite of the insistence of others, I'm not convinced that there has to be Scum in the Hood. He's been mostly under the radar, but is taking some stances. If I had to give a Read, I'd say NullTown.

Did I get them all?

[d3x]

The Cult of UberNinja circa 2013

[d3x]

-holding on to his penwin vote without developing his case past a flimsy cognitive dissonance thingy

This point interests me in particular. pen hadn't posted in between my laying out my case and the time you made this assertion. What exactly would you have me to do to develop my case when the target isn't posting?e]

Also, thoughts on the penWagon, plz.

[d3x]

you expressed support for a tda lynch but then didnt join a big wagon on tda, i dont understand why you held on to a flimsy lone vote at this point in the game instead of switching to a wagon on someone you thought could be scum. my problem was more with you illogically holding your vote instead of failing to develop the case further

I'm still having a bit of a hard time understanding what you would've had me do. I expressed support of the DudeWagon in the same post where I explained my case on pen. And for posterity sake, my support of the DudeWagon was...

DudeWagon is fine, I guess. penWagon would be infinitely better.

The Wagon was L-4 at this point, so I'm not completely sure of your perspective here. It's not like the penWagon wasn't going anywhere and the DudeWagon was gaining steam. Dude was pretty solidly up there and I was just starting to list my case. I also have an issue with you now saying that your issue wasn't 'failing to develop the case' considering that is pretty much verbatim the reason you listed in p411. What gives?

[d3x]

@Kid A- I guess what I'm ultimately saying is that you {much like Jogger} are moving the goal posts in your justifications of suspicion. Unfortunately, your actions feel much more manufactured than his did.

[d3x]

@epm- What don't you like about this Lynch?

If Nero is scum too that would explain they're superficial attempt at pushing his lynch: distancing.

This is not happening. Please continue lying.

If we're both town and don't suck at this game we are probably right.

Saving this for postgame.

Please list the stances you have seen Nero make, cause I see a guy who has only suspected me and ignored my request to provide a reads list of every player.

Well, suspecting you

is

taking a stance. I could be mistaken, but it feels like he's taken a stance on me as well. And there's nothing that says he has to give you a Reads List.

[d3x]

nope.com

This is our Lynch Today. pen specifically addresses me and when I answer, he says he wasn't talking to me? And none of this even speaks to him not responding to the case that's on him! Tracker, my ass...

[d3x]

Here's 4 posts. And you haven't really responded to any of them. I don't know why you keep saying Garmr is leading the Wagon, I'm pretty much the only one who's put together a full case. Everyone else has built/Sheeped off of this, AFAICT.

Early issues with pen- CogDis with p60 in the context of p13. This is a big problem for me. p61 is also an issue. He over explains the IAI player list thing by dropping the Newb card, but completely avoids the OMGUS issue... again. Delves into a potentially distracting theory debate instead of doing the thing he's talking about doing. Further, he is still holding onto an RVS Vote while bemoaning the merits of the RVS.

@pen360- That's a pretty stellar mischaracterization. My Vote wasn't RVS, it just took place in the RVS. I called my Vote real and I meant it. Secondly, saying that I'm concerned with the Vote on me is a continued mischaracterization. It matters not who your Random Vote is on, the fact is that you state that you're pretty antiRVS as you see it as being proScum, but you not only participated in the RVS, you OMGUSed in the RVS. The OMGUS is scummy in and of itself, but if you truly believe the RVS is proScum, why are you participating at all? Finally, you are handwaving the entire event away as just more evidence that you should be allowed to continue a theory debate instead of actually doing anything. You're lukewarm on a large percentage of players, but haven't chosen to do anything about it. You're Null on the leading Wagon, but are more than happy giving intent to Hammer with an obscene amount of time on the clock, all the while refusing to develop that Read any further. Note- this is not the 1st time you've said you want to work on your Reads and haven't followed up with any content.

@ d3x: You are not the only one that has IRL commitments and truth be told, there isn't much of anything happening at all in this thread

Point to where I've attacked you due to your posting frequency. Hint- I haven't.

all I seem to be seeing is TDA arguing with garmr with walls of text posts that no one except them are going to read.

Why are you saying this to me? Where have I indicated that any of this has any bearing on my Read of you?

I find it funny you talk of misrepresenting things

Why aren't you denying my accusations that you're mischaracterizing my posts? Does that mean that you're admitting it?

{you}

pick up on me saying I would hammer if needed and interestingly SUGGEST I meant quick lynch and yet you put my quote where I explained no intention of quick lynching? Curious.

Point to where I'm accusing you of wanting a quick Lynch. Hint- I didn't. I said you were willing to Hammer early without developing a Read on the Wagonee. Hammering early and Quick Lynching are two

very

different things. Throw in a super early willingness to Hammer someone you're Null about without trying to develop the Read and you have an easy-bake recipe for Scum.

All told, you haven't refuted a single point of my case against you. You haven't argued that it's without merit. You've moved on to Strawman'ing, but the funny thing is, you're defeating points that I'm not saying about you. And you're doing it poorly.

pen specifically addresses me and when I answer, he says he wasn't talking to me? And none of this even speaks to him not responding to the case that's on him! Tracker, my ass...

[d3x]

So you have a lean town on someone who has only suspected me D1, MAY have taken a stance on you, and is refusing to provide reads. Really?

I have a NullTown Read on someone who has taken a stance on you, a probable stance on me, hasn't done anything overtly scummy, and fought against the weaksauce aggro Dude was throwing my way in the Hood {and backed that up in thread here}, yeah. I'm not calling the guy ConfTown, I don't even have him in my Town pile. I have him as NullTown, which to me means slightly North of no Read at all.

[d3x]

It doesn't bother you that he is ignoring my request to provide reads?

Not particularly, should it? He's Voting you, so I'm not sure why you'd expect someone who's ScumReading you to necessarily give in to your request for a Reads List D1.

[d3x]

Self-voting is usually playing against your wincon as far as I'm aware, bit of a null statement.

As town tracker I will most likely be killed tonight before I can even produce anything of use, thanks to the wagon on me spearheaded by Garmr. In case it is not glaringly obvious I am not going to last long enough to be of any use, someone asked for my reads so I gave them.

Dripping and ABR are happy to jump on any wagon that forms and don't even reason their votes so they are probably scum.
Garmr just charges head on with lies and everyone thinks it is ok. You have just lost a town tracker and the neighbourhood because of him.
Naked is also someone not giving reasons with his votes, probable scum.

Can you point out where I have actually lied once? I don't think you can.

51

Explain why this is a lie.

[d3x]

It's going to be so freaking hilarious if ABR and pen are Scum together.

[d3x]

I'm seriously considering a PowerLynch on ABR D2 when/if pen flips Scum.

[d3x]

I don't have you as Scum independently at this juncture, only due to pen's reactions.

[d3x]

Briefly (phone posting)- pen has 12 posts in 12 days. He got run up and fought back with as many posts in a few hours. When pushed to back up his claim that Garmr lied in thread, he pointed to Garmr saying that ABR is Town. When questioned, he clammed up and disappeared. If he's Town, it means nothing. If he's Scum, it could be a HUGE slip.

[d3x]

It's a Hammer. It counted in the VC ^

[d3x]

Oh, and PowerLynching is just immediately running someone up.

[d3x]

Peacebringer's counted, too. Same deal.

[d3x]

@Jogger- lol

@Kid A- I'd still like an answer to p574 & p576, plz.

[d3x]

@rando- Why? You've placed 6 Votes thus far {and lobbied a 7th} and the most in depth explanation has been "bc wagon".

[d3x]

Your dedication to a lost cause is adorable. Why don't you do something useful with you time? I mean, at least build a case on me.

[d3x]

ok, Kthx is solid Town. Nothing will change that... ever.

@Kthx- Kid A and midget are really high up on my list. Them Voting DGB in tandem make me less worried about her than I previously was. I have Jogger as VI. I'd have him as mostly Town if not for a few finer points {hypocrisy over his pen Vote being a main one}. I feel like ika's lolHammer was largely alignment neutral. You'd expressed intent to Hammer, so what would be the Scum motivation of jumping in there and dropping it? That Wagon wasn't going anywhere.

@Mod

- This game being flavorless, would you post a different Killing type if there were multiple Killing factions?

Vote:Kid A

[d3x]

I'm sad that you'd choose the other of my highest ScumReads, Kthx

Now I have to switch my Vote.

UnVote/Vote:midget

My meta is all laid out nice-like in my wiki. I have links and basic data {W/L, Role, alignment, death type and time} on every game I've played on site with this account. Anyone wishing to delve has an easy time of it.

[d3x]

So... you'd consider ika a compromise Lynch to AA?

[d3x]

Alright, I'm no longer interested in this character assassination.

Jogger- Have you ever Lynched a Townie? Aside from the one

you

just helped Lynch? Have you ever had a ScumRead on a Townie? Aside from me, of course. Have you ever lead a Lynch? Is your Lynch rate 100%? Basically, I'm just about sick of you spouting your mouth off about how terrible of a player I am. A single misLynch means shit in a 5 year career. Hell, as a single data point, it means shit in the scope of a single game. Not a word of what I said in going after pen was untrue. You want to call me scummy, knock yourself out. You want to build a case on me, be my guest. Lay off the trash talk. I'm not interested in your confirmation bias or the justifications you're trying to paint to hedge your bet on my alignment.

[d3x]

Call me Scum all you want, man. Just leave the 'bad player' shit out of it.

[d3x]

Time to look at D1. Maybe there's something that will help crack our Lynch for Today. Note- this builds directly off of Kthx's p691.

DudeWagon at it's pinnacle...

Albert B. Rampage (0):
AlternateAccount (0):
d3x (0):
dragonspawn (1): TheDudeAbides
Drake Crusader (0):
Dripping Goofball (1): randomidget
evilpacman18 (0):
firebound12 (1): Dripping Goofball
Flubbernugget(2): I Am Innocent, Peacebringer
Garmr (1):

killapenwin

I Am Innocent (1): Nero Cain
Kid A (0):

killapenwin

(2): d3x, NakedJogger
NakedJogger (0):
Nero Cain (0):
Peacebringer (0):
randomidget (0):
TheDudeAbides (7): Garmr, AlternateAccount, Kid A, Albert B. Rampage, Flubbernugget, dragonspawn, YuniChikako
YuniChikako (0):

Not Voting - Drake Crusader,

evilpacman18

, firebound12

With 19 alive it takes 10 to lynch.

penLynch...

Albert B. Rampage (0):
d3x (0):
dragonspawn (1): TheDudeAbides
Dripping Goofball (1): Kid A
evilpacman18 (0):
firebound12 (1): I Am Innocent
Flubbernugget(0):
Garmr (0):
I Am Innocent (1): Nero Cain
Ika (0):
Kid A (0):

killapenwin

(LYNCH): d3x, NakedJogger, Garmr, dragonspawn, Albert B. Rampage, Peacebringer, Dripping Goofball, randomidget,

Killapenwin

, Ika
Kthxbye (0):
NakedJogger (0):
Nero Cain (0):
Peacebringer (0):
randomidget (0):
TheDudeAbides (2): Flubbernugget, YuniChikako
YuniChikako (0):

Not Voting - Kthxbye,

evilpacman18

, firebound12

Thoughts in no discernable order...

The penLynch was the immediate fallout from the DudeWagon. Frequent fliers are Garmr, dragon, ABR, and the Hammer from AA/ika, with an honorable mention going to Flub. That's a lot of carryover.

ika- Assuming Scum, he knows that he's about to lolHammer a PR. Hell, he races Flub's Intent to Hammer. I have a hard time believing that's a thing Scumika would do. Unless something drastic changes, ika is Town.

IAI's p583 feels out of place to me. In p486 he supports the Wagon and says that if DGB shifts, he'll follow. She does. He doesn't. At the time of 583, pen is L-2 and DGB has been on the Wagon for ~2 pages. He admits his Vote is useless and there's definitely room on the Wagon, but he tries to start a FlashMob on Nero. After the Claim, he lightly prods pen, but still doesn't really take a stance.

@Flub- In your assessment, when did this happen?

killa decided to scumclaim via ate

Also, your 762 is a super strong reaction to 2 Votes on ika. Why?

Something feels off about Garmr.

[d3x]

@Town Can I get some votes on d3x please, at least until he answers my question (why he didn't wait for pen to produce some night-action info or get sniped by scum) somewhat adequately.

I must have missed this question. The answer is that I thought he was Scum. If he was a ScumPR, he'd have gotten a chance to use his ability. I stated my feelings on his Claim when he Claimed.

[d3x]

No, I didn't think for a second that he was VI. I laid out my case against pen and the points still hold; he was scummy. I thought he was Scum. His actions led me to that conclusion.

I do not find you to be scummy, although some of the things you've done leave me with doubt over my Read. Your actions have led me to a different conclusion because you've produced different content and stances than pen did. Why is that something I have to explain? Yes, I have two different Reads on two different players. Is that a surprise to you? That two different players are... different players?

Of course it doesn't "sound legit" because you are once again cobbling shit together that doesn't have anything to do with the other. I never called pen VI and I never have believed that he was VI, so I don't know what the wiki quote has to do with anything. Why should some random quote that you found on the wiki "sound familiar" to me, did I reference it? Did I use it as a justification for a Lynch on pen? Further, I have no idea why you posted the quote in response to my answering of your question. Are you saying that

you

felt pen was a VI? Is that a theory that you've posed here? Because if so, I must have missed that as well.

[d3x]

@dragon- Would you be so kind as to state the cases on each, from your perspective?

[d3x]

@IAI

IAI's p583 feels out of place to me. In p486 he supports the Wagon and says that if DGB shifts, he'll follow. She does. He doesn't. At the time of 583, pen is L-2 and DGB has been on the Wagon for ~2 pages. He admits his Vote is useless and there's definitely room on the Wagon, but he tries to start a FlashMob on Nero. After the Claim, he lightly prods pen, but still doesn't really take a stance.

It's interesting that in your very next contribution after I posted this, you put in a soft push against me. It's also interesting that as of page 21, you are "very confident in your Town Read" on me. The vast majority of behaviors that Jogger is screaming about occurred while this was the case. At what point did you change your mind? You clearly didn't disagree with my stance on pen's Claim; you posted after I did and questioned pen expressing doubt.

Question time!

1. <

see above re: your Read change

>
2. What is your response to the above quote?
3. What is it that about Jogger's case on me that you most agree with?
4. How much stock do you put in meta?
5. What is your Read on Kthx?

[d3x]

Spoiler: @IAI

@IAI

IAI's p583 feels out of place to me. In p486 he supports the Wagon and says that if DGB shifts, he'll follow. She does. He doesn't. At the time of 583, pen is L-2 and DGB has been on the Wagon for ~2 pages. He admits his Vote is useless and there's definitely room on the Wagon, but he tries to start a FlashMob on Nero. After the Claim, he lightly prods pen, but still doesn't really take a stance.

It's interesting that in your very next contribution after I posted this, you put in a soft push against me. It's also interesting that as of page 21, you are "very confident in your Town Read" on me. The vast majority of behaviors that Jogger is screaming about occurred while this was the case. At what point did you change your mind? You clearly didn't disagree with my stance on pen's Claim; you posted after I did and questioned pen expressing doubt.

Question time!

1. <

see above re: your Read change

>
2. What is your response to the above quote?
3. What is it that about Jogger's case on me that you most agree with?
4. How much stock do you put in meta?
5. What is your Read on Kthx?

1) My town read was based on your reaction to TDA. You totally diffused that wagon, which based on my read of TDA was very town. Since then, you've lost points. Your wagon on pen (which was your only vote D1 btw), whether I agreed with it or not, flipped town. I feel randomidget is an easy wagon too. And Kid A as well. I don't feel you have gotten your hands dirty, it feels like you keep going after the low hanging fruit (TDA wagon aside).

2) I think that quote totally characterizes how I felt. I like multiple wagons. We had two large wagons D1, as someone pointed out, with many of the same people. Neither wagon crossed with the others. I feel like multiple wagons gets information. With more than 1 wagon, there is a greater chance at one of those wagons including scum. Which forces the scum to bus, vote a counterwagon, or try to start a new wagon. We gained none of that information D1 because there was never any CWs.

Long story short, I was okay with Pen, but I personally would have rather seen a 2nd wagon. My preference at that moment was it be Nero, which nobody agreed with.

3) Jogger hasn't swayed me, my read on you is based on gut/feelings from #1 above. Like I said earlier, this doesn't feel like the same d3x from YCBA 2.

4) Not as much as Pirate Mollie, but I do put some stock in meta. Like I said in #3, your game feels different from our last together, yet garmr's feels the same. Early on in a game, that holds quite a bit of weight, at least until we get some scum flips.

5) kthx also feels a bit different from last game. Not a fan of his two votes (NJ or randomidget) either. Tho I will say randomidget lurking is not making me feel great about my town read there. NJ is coming off as very town in my eyes.

1- How is Kid A an 'easy Wagon' or even 'low hanging fruit'? Is there some groundswell against him that I'm unaware of? Do you disagree with my assessment of his push on me Yesterday? How do you reconcile me not getting my 'hands dirty' and at the same time chastising me {no matter how slight} for leading the Wagon on Townpen? If I were truly Scum in this scenario, I'd know he was Town. His blood is all over my hands either way.

2- That's nice and all, but it doesn't really speak to my quote in the least. I'm saying you went against your word. You're responding with 'I like choices'. You said that you would follow DGB onto the penWagon and then you didn't. Why? If you truly were ok with pen, but would've liked a CounterWagon, why did you offer to ghost DGB's Vote in the first place? Did you actually have any intention of following her?

4&5- Up until this point, I'd say I was having serious doubts about you. If you'd have said that you had a TownRead on Kthx and that you put any amount of stock in meta, I'd switch to you in a heartbeat and call in any markers I had to see you swing. As Kthx has said, we've been friends for decades and have played in nigh countless games together. We aren't always 100%, but to ignore his metaRead on me in favor of your own single point of data would be very scummy indeed. Having doubts in Kthx's alignment calls into question the veracity of his meta Read on me. I'd still like an answer to my new questions, but you've largely sated my suspicions.

--other business--

We have a week to go and 3 viable Wagons to choose from: DGB, Pb, and midget. Time to start lobbying, chappies & chappettes.

DGB

- I don't completely understand why this is a thing.

Pb

- I wouldn't be heartbroken if this was our Lynch Today, but I'm not really feeling it at this juncture.

midget

- Someone give me a reason why this guy

isn't

Scum.

@dragonp897- I'm waiting. Please make this a priority.

I'm not interested i lynching Random Midget.

Why not?

FlashWagons I'd probably join:
Garmr
Dragon
Kid A

--final thoughts--

Be safe out there East Coasters.

[d3x]

Sure. That's why I'm asking IAI how he's categorized Kid A as such.

[d3x]

This shit's stalled out so freaking hard and this benefits no one but Scum.

The deadline is now 6 days away and we're actually

further

from consolidating the Lynch.

@Peace- Do you actually want a Wagon to pop up on IAI? Do you think it has better wheels than the other 3? What would you say is the most compelling evidence that might sway 8 others to join you and help keep your Vote from being wasted?

[d3x]

Because without someone pushing, I don't believe it will happen. This game isn't playing like we have 17 players still alive. We're heading into the end of D2 and we're at 40 pages. We've had 5 replacements and 12 prods handed out {not including those who had to be replaced}. There are arguably 6 prod dodges on this page alone. The overwhelming majority of players in this game are satisfied with one liners and seemingly reasonless Vote hopping. We have 3 Wagons that are 'competing' solely by the virtue that the they each exist.

These things concern me greatly and lead me to believe that in the absence of someone actively calling out the bullshit and trying to shame the game along, the game won't move along. A FlashWagon when we're 24hrs from deadline won't give us as much useful information for D3 as

actually

competing Wagons a week out.

Oh, and we both just lost to a chronic Lurker. And that blows. So a lack of content on this scale is making me rather irritable.

[d3x]

I'll reread the last few pages a bit more in depth sometime tonight, but as it stands right now I want my name on either midget or dragon when the Day ends.

[d3x]

@ika- Let's say both DGB and midget hit L-1 and you're the decider. Who do you Hammer?

[d3x]

@TT- p351 didn't really have anything to do with the argument between Nero and Dude. Did you read it in context to the discussion or just in an Iso? p351 is the rationale for my TownRead on Dude in response to the questions of Jogger and Garmr. If you want my take on the discussion in the Hood, you should read p482.

[d3x]

yeah this doesn't happen. While yes, I've seen players that have agreed with each others reads but players agreeing on reads doesn't always happen and with a years worth of experience is quite baffling that you'd express skepticism.

That doesn't account for the fact that you three are so disjointed.

Meh. We don't have Daychat and no one said much in either preGame or N1. Also, I never form Town Blocks with players that I don't have as Town {Nero}.

[d3x]

lol... He's also Vote #1 on the DGB Wagon.

[d3x]

lol... He's also Vote #1 on the DGB Wagon.

[d3x]

...ugh... that wasn't finished, let alone meant for a double post.

Dripping Goofball (6): randomidget, Kid A, TheDudeAbides, Flubbernugget, StrangerCoug, Albert B. Rampage
randomidget (6): dragonspawn, Kthxbye, d3x, Garmr, Dripping Goofball, NakedJogger

If the sentiment isn't saying that DGB is Town, he's saying that at least one of the above 12 players are Scum... *gasp* the insight!

[d3x]

Also, d3x's response to Naked Jogger earlier today wasn't very good, particularly the redirect to indignation about being called a "bad player" when Naked Jogger did no such thing.

I'm curious... would it change your opinion of the reaction if he had called me a bad player {multiple times}?

[d3x]

For the above and the push on d3x who I am strongly town reading as his push on killa (although wrong in the end) is straight up his town meta.

This is a mean thing to say about d3x. You're basically saying he's horrible at being town? Can you back it up with some examples?

But pen flipped town and everyone who is still townreading d3x needs to get his head examined. Veteran players don't usually deathtunnel townies, especially claimed PR ones, unless they suck balls at this game, in which case they're a menace even as town. That's the fucking elephant in the room right now.

[d3x]

Considering I've read my role PM, he's calling me a bad player.

[d3x]

@Pb- I don't get it. You're saying that you're not going to compromise your Vote onto a Wagon you don't agree with just because the deadline is close. Because of that mentality, you're fine with Voting someone who has almost a 0% chance to get Lynched Today. But you're not willing to Vote someone who

does

have a chance to get Lynched Today and you are seemingly ok with him getting flipped, but you don't want to because the deadline is close? Am I understanding you correctly?

[d3x]

Why were you assuming her as a Town flip before you started TownReading her?

[d3x]

Back from a long anniversary weekend and reading. Expect a post in the next hour or so while the baby is napping. Anything anyone would like an answer to sooner than that, just post it. I'll probably see it while I'm writing.

[d3x]

midget1263 is fake as shit. Why he no Lynched?

@Jogger1272- Can you provide examples of this being how you play Town {following your biggest ScumReads onto consecutive Wagons}?

@dragon1286- How closely would you say you're reading the thread?

Does it bother you the amount of people voting RM that also finished on the penguin wagon?

It really shouldn't unless you think those that were voting kpen were scum but if you think that why would you be voting off of the wagoners?

This.

@Nero- Why did you Claim when you did?

Why do you think there's so much more resistance to a Ika lynch than a RM lynch?

Why would scum ika hammer if flubber was ready to?

If Nero ever flips Scum, Garmr is #1 on my list for the next Day.

@TT1422- Why are you getting all hot and bothered over it? Don't do it if you don't want to.

[d3x]

Dex because town is being stupid. Randommidget obvious scum.

What is this in reference to?

Why are you against a ika wagon?

What do you think of tth trying to pin me and you together?

I originally felt that the Hammer was Null. After thinking it over a bit, I decided otherwise. I have yet to see a compelling reason to change my mind. Either way, I feel that a midget Lynch is far superior. I don't really think much of TT's connection building at this point in terms of her alignment. There's no indication at this stage of the game that we're in a multiball game, so I think it would be a ridiculous assertion to have 2 ScumBuddies in a single Neighborhood.

I'd be 100% ok with a FlashLynch on Garmr right now.

[d3x]

I feel like you've been subtly Buddying me all game which is a bit odd considering our only other game together, we weren't exactly friends. You are in a 2man Neighborhood with dragon and have decided that there is a high percentage chance that our 3man Hood has Scum in it, but I don't feel like this has had any real impact whatsoever on your play. You've been a far cry from your play in the other game, but Hand Wave it whenever I bring it up. I don't feel like you've tried to engage with me in any meaningful way aside from mirroring my points or chasing my tail.

By the way, where have I tried to connect you to anyone besides Nero... just now?

[d3x]

TT- That looks like it was a game based on the specific mechanic of Neighborhoods. I feel the situation is completely different.

[d3x]

I don't really see how that changes anything... {directed at both of you}

[d3x]

@TT- Nero asked about connecting us. I said that I don't feel that it's realistic based on the necessary makeup of the Hood. You linked a game and we disagree on the implications of the makeup of those Hoods. In line with us disagreeing, I don't feel that it impacts the game here. Thus, it doesn't change anything from my perspective.

[d3x]

@Garmr- At what point did you decide there was an above average chance that the 3man Hood had Scum in it?

[d3x]

Where do you feel that you acted upon this most directly in thread?

[d3x]

@IAI

Multiple neighborhoods or masons usually indicate at least one scum in at least one of the neighborhoods. It narrows down scum to more manageable list.

Given this sentiment and what you've just told us, why did you decide to jump ship on the theory in your next post? I know that I directly asked you to look at my case, but you had additional knowledge and a reason to stay with the theory of a much more narrow pool. You even admitted that you were the driving factor that dismantled the DudeWagon. Why have you not pursued this thread Today?

[d3x]

@Garmr

By the way, where have I tried to connect you to anyone besides Nero... just now?

[d3x]

Well, we'd better figure something. By my count, the largest Wagon is now L-4 and No Lynch is weaksauce.

unoffical VC

randomidget (5): dragonspawn, d3x,Peacebringer, Garmr, StrangerCoug
Ika (4): TheDudeAbides, Nero Cain, randomidget, Dripping Goofball
Nero Cain (3): Albert B. Rampage, I Am Innocent, Flubbernugget
d3x (2): TellTaleHeart, NakedJogger
Dripping Goofball (1): Kid A
Kthxbye (1): Ika
Not Voting - Kthxbye

@dragon- Do you agree with Garmr's assessment that there's at least one Scum between the 5 Neighbors? If so, why haven't you been acting on that, either? Who is your front-runner for the mantle? You're clearly TownReading Garmr and me.

@Garmr- Define "off the wagon", plz. Are you referring to the penWagon?

[d3x]

@TT- Nero asked about connecting us. I said that I don't feel that it's realistic based on the necessary makeup of the Hood. You linked a game and we disagree on the implications of the makeup of those Hoods. In line with us disagreeing, I don't feel that it impacts the game here. Thus, it doesn't change anything from my perspective.

Well I don't really give a damn about "your perspective." You were telling me that the setup pretty much forbade you and Nero being scum together and my point is that's not necessarily so.

*whoosh*

[d3x]

Cute. I'm slightly drunk right now, though. What's your excuse?

Point being, I was talking to Nero, not you. It didn't matter if you 'gave a damn for my perspective' or not, the conversation wasn't for your edification. I wasn't telling you that the setup pretty much forbade me and Nero being scum together, I was telling him that I disagreed with your assessment that it was so. Thus, being that I already knew your opinion on the matter and disagreed with it, it didn't change anything.

I can't even begin to understand this level of disconnectedness, d3x.

I'm not sure I follow you. What disconnectedness? I'm not being wry, I truly don't know what you're referring to or where you feel I'm exhibiting this trait.

@dragon- Do you two have DayChat? Who's idea was it to not follow up the thread on Scum being amongst the 3man Neighbors?

@Garmr

By the way, where have I tried to connect you to anyone besides Nero... just now?

[d3x]

I'll be on periodically for the next few hours. After that, I cannot guarantee that I'll be around for the deadline.

[d3x]

For the triple post...

@Mod

- Kid A has posted twice in the last week and has now exceeded the 48hr mark. Can we get a fat prod, plz? And a 3rd prod on ika {and maybe a deadline extension if this means he's being force replaced}? Thank you!

[d3x]

@Garmr- I don't mean to be rude, but the question "where" cannot be answered by a person's name. Again I'll ask,

where

did I connect you to anyone besides Nero? You want to point to midget, fine... where?

Besides, don't you think it's a bit of a stretch to say...

his trying to connect me to everyone

...if your answer is one other person? What gives? Why try to paint me with a very large brush?

p.edit- You most assuredly did not say the discussion took place at Night. Here's the full quote. It reads like you and dragon mutually TownRead each other in the Hood during D1.

Me and dragonspawn also have a pt we discussed a lot of things before the game and

we mutually ended up town reading each other as day 1 progressed

. This is why dragonspawn and me have been working together.

I had to explain to dragonspawn why two Pts had a increase chance of having scum in one and by keeping off one the scum is more likely to feel comfortable and slip up. His content in our pt is more than on here. It's also why i got suspicious of naked jogger in the first place because of his reasoning.

I'm not the only one who thought you were saying you had DayChat, either. I'm not even the only other Neighbor who thought you were saying it.

[d3x]

omw

[d3x]

Why are you scum reading Garmr?

I feel like you've been subtly Buddying me all game which is a bit odd considering our only other game together, we weren't exactly friends. You are in a 2man Neighborhood with dragon and have decided that there is a high percentage chance that our 3man Hood has Scum in it, but I don't feel like this has had any real impact whatsoever on your play. You've been a far cry from your play in the other game, but Hand Wave it whenever I bring it up. I don't feel like you've tried to engage with me in any meaningful way aside from mirroring my points or chasing my tail.

The tipping point was that I do not feel that Garmr has been playing with this sentiment in mind at all.

[d3x]

@Kthx- IAI just said he'd Hammer midget to avoid a No Lynch. Why are you switching?

[d3x]

/sigh

[d3x]

Your thoughts on ika include this...

Maybe RM is a scum PR and ika isn't

And just because he isn't here now, doesn't mean he wouldn't be here at the deadline, but w/e.

No use crying over spilled milk.

[d3x]

Hey look! IAI's here...

[d3x]

Vote: StrangerCoug

[d3x]

lol, I'm surprised it took this many pages for someone to come after me {TT's doesn't count, she said nothing}.

Unofficial VC as of right now

Albert B. Rampage (1): Dripping Goofball
d3x (4): TellTaleHeart, IAI, Peacebringer, NakedJogger
dragonspawn (2): TheDudeAbides, Nero Cain
Dripping Goofball (0):
Flubbernugget(0):
Garmr (0):
I Am Innocent (0):
Kthxbye (0):
NakedJogger (0):
Nero Cain (6): Garmr, dragonspawn, Albert B. Rampage, Flubbernugget, StrangerCoug, randommidget
Peacebringer (0):
randomidget (1): Kthxbye
StrangerCoug (1): d3x
TellTaleHeart(0):
TheDudeAbides (0):

Not Voting - no one

Bits of information that I feel are important.

Kthx is ConfTown. I have proof, but I'd rather not divulge any more at this juncture.
Garmr is scummier than dragon {regardless of my Hoodie's private opinions}. Nero is scummier than Dude {the 'slips' and the lack of Kills from a Claimed Vig}, but is townier than either dragon or Garmr. Dude is Town. That's your Lynch order of the Hoods if it goes down like that. There should be 1 Scum in the remainder of Hoodies after I flip Town.

There's no way that both Garmr and dragon are Scum unless we're in MultiBall or they're making it all up. We still have no evidence of MB and if they're making it up, we'll know as soon as one of them flips {b/c they won't have the Role - Neighbor}. One Scum flip clears the other.

midget should still be on the table. There is no logical reason that ikaScum should selfVote in the position he was in if midget is Town. It wasn't until Kthx swapped to ika that the midgetWagon became ultimately nonviable.

The hot and heavy pushes and rushes Today scream of Scum, but I'd expect one or two to still be trying to sit the dust up out. My money puts that on ABR and Garmr for the early aggroScum with midget and either Peace or Jogger as the late slow play Scum.

Spoiler: Lynch Wagons

For ease of reference...

D1 LYNCH

Albert B. Rampage (0):
d3x (0):
dragonspawn (1): TheDudeAbides
Dripping Goofball (1):

Kid A

evilpacman18

(0):
firebound12 (1): I Am Innocent
Flubbernugget(0):
Garmr (0):
I Am Innocent (1): Nero Cain

Ika

(0):

Kid A

(0):

killapenwin

(LYNCH): d3x, NakedJogger, Garmr, dragonspawn, Albert B. Rampage, Peacebringer, Dripping Goofball, randomidget,

Killapenwin

,

Ika

Kthxbye

(0):
NakedJogger (0):
Nero Cain (0):
Peacebringer (0):
randomidget (0):
TheDudeAbides (2): Flubbernugget, YuniChikako
YuniChikako (0):

Not Voting -

Kthxbye

,

evilpacman18

, firebound12

DAY 2 LYNCH

Albert B. Rampage (0):
d3x (0):
dragonspawn (0):
Dripping Goofball (1):

Kid A

Flubbernugget(0):
Garmr (0):
I Am Innocent (0):

Ika

(LYNCH): TheDudeAbides, randomidget, Dripping Goofball, TellTaleHeart,

Ika

, I Am Innocent,

Kthxbye

, dragonspawn, Nero Cain

Kid A

(0):

Kthxbye

(0):
NakedJogger (0):
Nero Cain (2): Albert B. Rampage, Flubbernugget
Peacebringer (0):
randomidget (5): d3x, Garmr, Peacebringer, StrangerCoug, NakedJogger
StrangerCoug (0):
TellTaleHeart(0):
TheDudeAbides (0):

Not Voting - No one.

Spoiler: Important Vote Count

VoteCount 2.12

Albert B. Rampage (0):
d3x (1): NakedJogger
dragonspawn (0):
Dripping Goofball (1):

Kid A

Flubbernugget(0):
Garmr (0):
I Am Innocent (0):

Ika

(5): TheDudeAbides, Nero Cain, randomidget, Dripping Goofball, TellTaleHeart

Kid A

(0):

Kthxbye

(1):

Ika

NakedJogger (0):
Nero Cain (3): Albert B. Rampage, I Am Innocent, Flubbernugget
Peacebringer (0):
randomidget (6): dragonspawn, d3x, Garmr, Peacebringer, StrangerCoug,

Kthxbye

StrangerCoug (0):
TellTaleHeart(0):
TheDudeAbides (0):

Not Voting

- No one.

With 17 alive it takes 9 to lynch.

Right after this, ika selfVotes and Nero repositions himself on the ikaWagon bringing it to ika6/midget6. Jogger immediately pushes it back to 6/7 and IAI keeps the ikaWagon in play. Unless midget ever flips ScumPR, I think IAI is off the table and Jogger should be kept in the LynchPool.

I'd say that we got the reactions we were looking for, so...

UnVote/Vote: Garmr

I don't selfVote outside of ScumHammering myself in a lost cause, so you people will have to run me up normal-like.

[d3x]

If Nero is Scum, I'd be pretty surprised and impressed. His Scumplay last game was very different. He had a similar position in that he should've been a hard TownRead due to VCA early on, but instead of flaunting it, he slow played it. He was only caught by the Cop, iirc.

[d3x]

Oh, and my Scum List as it stands right now is...

Scummiest Scum

Garmr*
dragon*
ABR
midget
Jogger
TT
Peace

Towniest Scum

*one flipping Scum all but clears the other

[d3x]

It was a Hood thing.

[d3x]

@TT- You still haven't explained that.

[d3x]

I have SC as Null.

SC starts with a TownRead on Nero. I find no fault in that.
He continues to TownRead him. I find no fault in that.
He defends his TownRead without dipping into a Chainsaw defense. I find no fault in that.
He Votes him after a second supposed ScumSlip. I find no fault in that.

p.edit-

@TT- You still haven't explained that.

I can do a write up later, but the short version:
{1}You lynched a town PR Day 1.
{2}You strawmanned Naked Jogger's case the next day.
{3}You pushed the counterwagon to scum.
{4}You're overconfident that you're not getting lynched because you seem to have everyone by the ears because you make long, ~pretty posts~.

1- Along with a heap of other players who had much weaker reasons to be there. I built a case and I stand behind it. He may have flipped Town, but that doesn't mean he wasn't scummy. To date, I don't think anyone has found fault in my pen case, just in my conclusions. I conceed that I led a misLynch. It happens.
2- I did no such thing, I completely ignored him. He started off Voting w/o a case. He made a circumstantial and hypocritical case on me and based off of our head butting D1, I felt that it would only clutter the thread if I engaged. I had him as a TownRead and had previously said that I was just going to ignore him. When he pointed out that I had missed a question he'd asked, I responded. He then went on to make assertions that were not true, so I continued ignoring him.
3- It would be pretty stupid to so actively and aggressively do that in my position were I Scum. Further, midget hasn't flipped yet. I already gave my thoughts on the chances that he's a ScumPR.
4- That's just poor reading. I believe that I

will

be misLynched Today. I'm fine with it and I'm putting down all of my pertinent thoughts so that they can be referred back to later if needs be.

re: my "long, ~pretty posts~"- Lol, what? Is there a point you're trying to make here? Or are you just taking shots because prefer to take my time and write in a polished manner? Look at any of my games. Show me that this is at all indicative of my alignment. Hint- it's not.

The added bonus is that 2 of these points didn't exist Yesterday when you started accusing me of being 'disconnected'. What were your reasons then? You started off by implying that I never gave my reasons for suspecting Garmr. This is provable untrue.

Finally- Are you refering to Garmr's Cop Crumb? Because I saw it and immendiately dismissed it. I've seen him FakeClaim too many times to believe any of him Claims that don't come without provocation. If he is a Cop with a Guilty on Nero, he should just come out with it. Until he does, I view it as just more AntiTown behavior.

[d3x]

/his Claims

[d3x]

That sounds like a great reason to leave the Wagon on me in favor of a solo Vote on SC...

[d3x]

I refuse to believe that ScumNero would HardBus a Buddy, then fake a Cop result on a Townie with no real suspicion of being a PR. That's 2 Scum for a crap shoot Town.

And if TTH had a negative result on

anyone

, I highly doubt she would've let it go. She was an Even Night RoleCop. She would've had a single Investigation and she was flipping back and forth.

dragon gets Town points for slowing the inevitable TurboLynch on Nero.

Vote: Garmr

[d3x]

So what, DGB is his Buddy?

[d3x]

How does this play out in your mind, Garmr? What is the motivation to Bus idk to death, then Nero to get himself Lynched, and inevitably DGB as well, due to the very obvious Fake Guilty ploy. For the sole gain of an ABR death?

What is your Read on midget?

[d3x]

It's less about Town motivation and more about a severe lack of Scum motivation. Town pull gambits for seemingly pointless reasons and you should know that. You did it last game and assuming you're telling the truth in this one, you've done it multiple times in this one as well.

Back to the lack of Scum motivation. Nero and DGB blatantly tied themselves together in thread. If it was a Scum plan they wanted to push through for D3, they sure as hell would've come up with a more plausible one in their PT and enacted it better. The fact that it was so clumsy points to them

not

having an external method of communication.

Believing them both to be Scum means that you have to believe that they were ok with losing 3 Scum players for a single misLynch. That simply does not compute.

[d3x]

As long as we're both in agreement that you can't explain why Scum would be ok with a 3 for 1 swap, knock yourself out.

[d3x]

About to be Lynched? You mean L-5? You think they panicked at 3 Votes?

[d3x]

In order for the Cop gambit to be Scum driven, DGB

has

to be Scum. She was the one who brought up the Claim and proceeded to push it. I have no idea how this scenario works that you have Nero as 100% Scum, but DGB as just maybe Scum.

And the timing of DGB's posting in reference to the slip doesn't make any sense for it to be the motivation for the Claim. She would've had to have seen the slip, which no one caught until after she pushed for the Claim the 1st time. If she did see it, it doesn't make sense for her to immediately flip her Vote to Nero a few posts later. If she was going to Bus, why not just Bus?

I'm not against DGB catching Rope Today, but Nero doesn't make any sense with his positioning on the ikaLynch and his obvious following of DGB.

Final note- DGB and TTH are both listing female pronouns. You keep calling both 'he' and it's mildly confusing.

[d3x]

I can get behind a midgetWagon.

Vote:randommidget

@DGB- Why did you push Nero into the Claim?

@Those not Voting {minus dragon}- Why are you not Voting?

[d3x]

I think it's far more likely than Scum deciding that a 3:1 loss is acceptable.

[d3x]

I'll be reading/posting tonight.

[d3x]

I've already said I would hammer when the time is right. I'm not there yet.

I feel like this is Town. There was more than enough support so that if Nero flipped Town, he'd be forgiven. I don't see them as Scum together, so Nero Scum would be cleared dragon anyway.

Garmr for HoodScum 2015

And I'm getting a little paranoid about you and d3x not wanting to lynch Nero. The faking the hood thing again.

Is this seriously still a thing? Do you honestly think that 3 Scum would ban together and make up a Hood banking on the outside chance that none of the 3 of us would ever die? Because if your theory were true, a single death would result in back to back TurboLynches.

Oh... Hell... No...

Vote:Garmr

If he isn't scum, why would he have been pushing a lynch on ika to avoid a more powerful scum being lynched. It seems to me that in order for that scenario to be likely Nero has to scum.

Why would it be so hard to believe that TownNero had a legitimate ScumRead on ika?

I'd be down for DGB as a compromise Lynch for Today. She's a linchpin in a number of different theories right now.

[d3x]

D3x, out of your hood mates, which do you think is more likely to be scum.

Well, that's an easy one. Garmr.

[d3x]

D3x, out of your hood mates, which do you think is more likely to be scum.

Well, that's an easy one. Garmr.

Garmr isn't in your hood.

No kidding.

You're not willing to allow that your Hood has Scum in it and I'm not allowing for my Hood to have Scum. We have 5 Hoodies. I'm pretty sure that one of you 4 are Scum and I'm more than certain that I've listed my Lynch order for you.

[d3x]

@Nero- If they want to Claim Masons, then that's their business. Until said time, I'm going to operate under the premise that they're Neighbors because that's what they've Claimed. Anything else is just wasting time and is a distraction.

Maybe that makes me sound dense. Maybe that makes me sound disconnected. I could really care less. Until the Claim by the player is out there...

we mutually ended up town reading each other as day 1 progressed

Hell, look where DGB's "Claim" got us.

[d3x]

I've been in a pissy mood tonight. That may have come out harsher than I intended.

Point being- 5Hoodies = at least one Scum. 2Masons+3Hoodies = potentially 1 Scum, but not guaranteed. Since I have TownReads on those in my Hood, if they're actually Masons they're just causing a distraction by keeping the Pool at a higher capacity.

[d3x]

@dragon- Gun to your head right now, is DGB Scum?

[d3x]

The Cop Claim came from DGB and not Nero.

Now read that sentence again.

The Cop Claim came from DGB and not Nero.

Good, thank you. It's been said a few times and yet you keep saying that Nero tried to stay alive with a Cop Claim. The thing is...

The Cop Claim came from DGB and not Nero.

I'm glad you've read it 3 times in rapid succession and have given it a chance to sink in. Now with that information in mind, explain how...

You got caught and in order to avoid a lynch made a second fake claim

[d3x]

interesting.

vote:ABR

interesting.

vote:ABR

Yep. Nice crumbing of your cop result.

VOTE: ABR

OK then let's lynch ABR.

No way ABR wouldn't be on this lynch like white on rice if he were town.

And you crumbed a guilty, AMIRITE?

VOTE: ABR

ABR is on my wagon already. No guilty crumb.

What do you think of DS?

ABR is on my wagon already. No guilty crumb.

What do you think of DS?

Yes you do. You crumbed a guilty on ABR.

Why would ABR missed out on yesterday's ika wagon? ABR goes from wagon to wagon like a crack ho in a drive in movie parking lot.

I'd vote SC! Like him, Flubber and ABR have been super useless this game.

Yeah, that, and you have a COP GUILTY on ABR!

you have a COP GUILTY on ABR!

my bad, i forgot

vote:ABR

I have a cop guilty on ABR, whats not to understand?

Nero can take a hint, can you?

yea. Should I full claim?

I AM A NEIGHBOR HOOD COP. I investigated ABR last nigh. He is guilty. The next 4 votes on him get town cred.

To be fair, I made him lie.

Still standing behind that theory, dragon?

[d3x]

The theory that the Claim is Nero's and that he did it as Scum trying to buy another Day without DGB being 100% Scum in that scenario.

Nero Voted, DGB pushed for a Cop Claim, and Nero said that it wasn't a Crumb. DGB kept pushing the Cop result and Nero acquiesced believing that DGB was pushing the result because she was the Cop. How is that not what you're reading? Did you read all of the quotes I posted?

[d3x]

Eat me, Garmr.

[d3x]

Tbh I thought if he got a universal town read like in last game scum would kill him off like in last game and I wouldn't have to deal with him.

This is a blatant fucking lie. I played Doc to the hilt last game. I nailed 2 Protects in 4 Nights and was Killed because I was Watched. I also pegged PineScum when no one else was looking in his direction, among other solid Reads.

What exactly is the purpose of your weak ass attempt at discrediting me, anyway? You still aren't responding to the obvious argument against NeroScum. You're best attempt at defeating the logic is 'derp, Scum are probably just winging it.'

[d3x]

@dragon- You answer me and I'll answer you.

[d3x]

Oh, well if that's how this works...

[d3x]

You answer me and I'll answer you.

[d3x]

UnVote/Vote: midget

I'm not against SC swinging, but I 100% will not Vote for Nero.

[d3x]

Sry thought I posted more recently. D3x is quite clearly SC's buddy. Hw knows if he votes Nero he will look terrible so he votes the already declared compromise lynch, whilst leaving himself open to a bus if the SC wagon happens.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: strangercoug
I think d3x is scummier, but this will be an easier lynch.

Is anyone under the vaguest of impressions that any of this is actually what's happening?

[d3x]

I have family coming into town tomorrow. I'll try to stay current and shouldn't have too much trouble posting, but just in case I disappear for a bit...

@Mod- Please note V/LA from 2/17-2/25.

[d3x]

I think his v/la right after we start pushing him is more suspicious.

I very much resent this.

I'll try to be around for deadline, in case my Vote is needed.

[d3x]

I just got home from taking my family to the airport. I'll start reading/catching up tonight.

[d3x]

I put in some work listing out the Lynches and the Voting positions, but I see Flub {who was on my short list} is L-1 and refusing to Claim. I'm down.

Vote:Flub

Here's some of the grunt work for ease of reference later. Flub piqued my interest largely for avoiding every Lynch. I found defenses of ika and SC in his Iso along with a heap of really passive and watery posting.

Spoiler: D1 Lynch

Albert B. Rampage

(0):
d3x (0):
dragonspawn (1): TheDudeAbides
Dripping Goofball (1):

Kid A

evilpacman18

(0):

firebound12

(1):

I Am Innocent

Flubbernugget(0):
Garmr (0):

I Am Innocent

(1): Nero Cain

Ika

(0):

Kid A

(0):

killapenwin

(LYNCH): d3x, NakedJogger, Garmr, dragonspawn,

Albert B. Rampage

, Peacebringer, Dripping Goofball, randomidget,

Killapenwin

,

Ika

Kthxbye

(0):
NakedJogger (0):
Nero Cain (0):
Peacebringer (0):
randomidget (0):
TheDudeAbides (2): Flubbernugget,

YuniChikako

YuniChikako

(0):

Not Voting -

Kthxbye

,

evilpacman18

,

firebound12

Spoiler: D2 Lynch

Albert B. Rampage

(0):
d3x (0):
dragonspawn (0):
Dripping Goofball (1):

Kid A

Flubbernugget(0):
Garmr (0):

I Am Innocent

(0):

Ika

(LYNCH): TheDudeAbides, randomidget, Dripping Goofball,

TellTaleHeart

,

Ika

,

I Am Innocent

,

Kthxbye

, dragonspawn, Nero Cain

Kid A

(0):

Kthxbye

(0):
NakedJogger (0):
Nero Cain (2):

Albert B. Rampage

, Flubbernugget
Peacebringer (0):
randomidget (5): d3x, Garmr, Peacebringer,

StrangerCoug

, NakedJogger

StrangerCoug

(0):

TellTaleHeart

(0):
TheDudeAbides (0):

Not Voting - No one.

Spoiler: D3 Lynch

Albert B. Rampage

(LYNCH): Dripping Goofball, Nero Cain, TheDudeAbides,

I Am Innocent

, NakedJogger,

Kthxbye

, Peacebringer, randomidget
d3x (0):
dragonspawn (0):
Dripping Goofball (0):
Flubbernugget(0):
Garmr (1): d3x

I Am Innocent

(0):

Kthxbye

(0):
NakedJogger (0):
Nero Cain (5): Garmr, dragonspawn,

Albert B. Rampage

, Flubbernugget,

StrangerCoug

Peacebringer (0):
randomidget (0):

StrangerCoug

(1):

TellTaleHeart

TellTaleHeart

(0):
TheDudeAbides (0):

Not Voting - No one.

Spoiler: D4 Lynch

d3x (0):
dragonspawn (0):
Dripping Goofball (0):
Flubbernugget(0):
Garmr (0):

I Am Innocent

(0):

Kthxbye

(0):
NakedJogger (0):
Nero Cain (4):

StrangerCoug

, Flubbernugget, NakedJogger, Garmr
Peacebringer (0):
randomidget (2): d3x,

Kthxbye

StrangerCoug

(LYNCH): Nero Cain, TheDudeAbides, Peacebringer, randomidget,

I Am Innocent

, Dripping Goofball, dragonspawn
TheDudeAbides (0):

Not Voting - No one.

Spoiler: Lynches only

killapenwin

(LYNCH): d3x, NakedJogger, Garmr, dragonspawn,

Albert B. Rampage

, Peacebringer, Dripping Goofball, randomidget,

Killapenwin

,

Ika

Ika

(LYNCH): TheDudeAbides, randomidget, Dripping Goofball,

TellTaleHeart

,

Ika

,

I Am Innocent

,

Kthxbye

, dragonspawn, Nero Cain

Albert B. Rampage

(LYNCH): Dripping Goofball, Nero Cain, TheDudeAbides,

I Am Innocent

, NakedJogger,

Kthxbye

, Peacebringer, randomidget

StrangerCoug

(LYNCH): Nero Cain, TheDudeAbides, Peacebringer, randomidget,

I Am Innocent

, Dripping Goofball, dragonspawn

[d3x]

For what purpose?

[d3x]

It looks to me like over 24hrs have passed with nothing really happening or being discussed. This seems like exactly the thing that's needed to incite discussion. What would you like to discuss?

[d3x]

It's funny, because I was just discussing you, Jogger.

You have somehow managed to be on every MisLynch without being on a single Scum Lynch.

Vote:Jogger

[d3x]

*Refer back to this post Tomorrow when I've flipped Town*

1. If we're running the Hood, then we're just banking on a numbers game. Do not stop until you've found Scum in it. After me, Lynch TDA and then Nero {unless TDA flips Scum}. Having anyone from the Hood alive at end game will only be a distraction.
2. Kthx is Town 100%. This is not a meta Read and it's not indicative of my flip. I repeat, he is ConfTown and someone else out there should know it, too.
3. As AntiTown as the Masons are, they're ConfTown. Scum is going to have to burn 2 NKs on them before too long. TTH's push against my Garmr case proves that she Copped one of them.
4. Neither Jogger nor midget should be alive at End game.

[d3x]

What changed is that we seem to be going down the rabbit hole on the 'Hood must have Scum' thing. If we're starting it, then we need to finish it; we shouldn't have Hoodies alive at End Game.

ftr- I'm still not of a mind that there

has

to be Scum in the Hood, but if we're not going to Hunt outside, then we need to do the full job before losing the plot.

[d3x]

It doesn't matter why Kthx is ConfTown. He is. Don't sit there and fret over it, just know that when I flip Town you can bank on that shit.

I am clearly the Lynch for the Day and I'm not completely against it. I think Scum is leaving the Hood and Masons alone {via Night Kills} largely to sow paranoia. They will have to deal with the Masons pretty soon and that'll clear up that. The Hood needs to be flushed because it's obviously getting to be a distraction this late in the game. If it waits much longer, we'll run out of time and someone will do something stupid {like run me up to L-1 when we're in LyLo}.

[d3x]

I would vote d3x and Kthx today. Since I have a town read on Kths, d3x goes first

It'd better stop at d3x, is all I'm saying. Tell me that once I flip Town, everyone takes Kthx off the table.

[d3x]

I want this to be very clear to everyone. We don't have time to run completely through the scrubs and the Hoodies. If you think there's Scum in the Hood, that needs to be priority #1.

As a side note, my death will ConfTown Kthx. With the Masons, that secures 3 ConfTown.

These are things that need to be on the table and understood by all since we have less than a week to deadline.

[d3x]

@Jogger- I flip Town, do you Lynch the rest of the Hood?

[d3x]

either way d3x should to first.

This clearly explains why you're not Voting for me...

[d3x]

There is no room for Kthx on the ScumTeam with the Role he has, not with what we've seen flip where it has. To everyone with the same info I have, this should be a no brainer.

My flipping Town confirms to everyone that we're not ScumBuddies. I need to look back at the last few pages when I'm not so busy, but I think that Scum have backed off of pushing an easy d3xMisLynch and thrown suspicion Kthx's way because dealing with 3 ConfTownies is too much. As it stands, I don't know who fits this bill, but that'll probably be your Scum Pool Tomorrow {I know Jogger is in it, because he just posted in line with that thought process}.

Kthx- Absolutely, under no circumstances should you Claim Today. Tomorrow is fine, but not Today.

[d3x]

The Watcher isn't what makes ScumKthx unlikely, but it certainly helps. That's all I should need to say on the matter. Much more may give away the surprise... assuming anyone's still in the dark.

[d3x]

Well, aside from what should be a frighteningly obvious issue with Power balance, that is.

[d3x]

Are you freaking kidding me?!

How have we been anti town.

[d3x]

I'm on my phone. I may get to all your questions later today.

Fruit Vendor doesn't fit Goon/Goon/Watcher as a ScumTeam with a Tracker/RoleCop flipped for Town. This is what should be painfully obvious to you, Jogger. That ScumTeam would be woefully underpowered against RC, Tracker, Masons, and Neighbors (assuming no PRs outside the Claimed/flipped).

[d3x]

Much like the preGame Scum Chat debate earlier, almost every game I've ever played in as Scum has allowed Scum to use factional and Role-based abilities on the same Night if that Scum is the last of their kind alive.

Kthx is not Scum. Your site meta is 3 years out of date. Hell, I'm pretty sure that back then, the last Scum using both abilities was pretty common.

But none of this answers why the ScumTeam would be so handicapped.

So you're saying that the remaining scum is some sort of superpower role, even moreso if kthx is town and can confirm it if there's only one scum left.

That's not at all what I'm saying. Fruit Vendor as the last Scum is underpowered, while just about any other Scum PR would not be. Scum Fruit Vendor is pretty useless and against a TownTracker, it just allows for a 3rd Scum to be able to get caught with no real balance benefit. The power of a Fruit Vendor is that they can screw with a ScumWatcher/Tracker and look... there was a ScumWatcher!

@DGB- Ask Nero about Scum stacking up on a single Wagon. He was part of a ScumTeam last game where 4 of them stacked up on a 6man Wagon to get it pushed through. Whatever meta you are using to clear NJ and midget is as flawed as it was when I thought the same last game. We only caught Nero with a Cop result.

[d3x]

Whatever meta you are using to clear NJ

and midget

is as flawed as it was when I thought the same last game.

Fixed. I misread the quote.

[d3x]

I'd Hammer myself to avert a No Lynch. If we're not going after Scum, then I'm the best play for Today. Cleaning house on the Hood will eliminate a big End Game distraction.

I should be around for most of the remaining Dayllight.

[d3x]

You're not dying Today. Scum have no reason to Kill me, but they do have to Kill you and the Masons. Especially after I flip.

[d3x]

Sweep the Hood, Danny. Sweep the Hood.

[d3x]

Briefly popping in during doped up post-surgery V/LA.

Solid game all. I said it in the dead QT, but I just got too hung up on never having seen a Scum Fruit Vendor. I essentially stopped reading Kthx at that point.

@Kthx- I think you did a solid game of stringing everything along. I think in order to have a true shot, you had to have capped one of the Masons instead of DGB, though. I know you would've still been in a tight spot, but 2 ConfTown that late in the game especially with both Hoodies still alive was nigh unwinnable. We can chat more offline once I've fully regained my ability to speak

Jogger-

@Jogger1272- Can you provide examples of this being how you play Town {following your biggest ScumReads onto consecutive Wagons}?

Nope.
But I think I'll do it again in the future, depending on how it works out.

I'd recommend finding a different tactic

Solid Mod'ing, Brian. Thank you for the game!

Nero for Town MVP 2015!