NY 186: Mafia In Japan - Mafia Victory!

[I Am Innocent]

vote radja

[I Am Innocent]

He forgot to add his buddy?

QFT

[I Am Innocent]

Votecount #1.5

Kaboose

(5): Jazzmyn, ConManMick, Grayfoxxxx, Espeonage, Pisskop

Klingoncelt

(3): Nero Cain, Salamence20, Radja

Nero Cain

(3): Klingoncelt, WoodyWoodpecker, Quaroath

PMysterious

(1): Kaboose

Radja

(1): I am Innocent

I Am Innocent

(1): Mainez

Not voting

(5): ika, evilpacman18, SithLord84, Boonskiies, PMysterious

With

19

alive it's

10

to lynch.

Night falls in (expired on 2015-07-18 12:00:00).

SithLord84 has been prodded again, as well as EvilPacman18 and Jazzmyn!

My preference on the wagons above would be Radja > Kaboose > Klingon > PM > Nero

[I Am Innocent]

So far I'm scum reading everyone. I feel like the mod's next post may endgame me.

What was the point of this post?

Okay cool, so if she is ascetic then I'll confirm her as town. Let me make a list.

Well not really confirm confirm, but feel really confident.

If WW is telling the truth, then I'm believing they are town based on my role. That's how I'm coming to that conclusion.

It's d1, the gamestate sucks and I know that WW is about 90% town.

Grayfoxxxx, that's such a terrible vote. What do you want me to say? You want me to fill a list out that is based around facts with false reads that get no where? It's simply a list for me to keep up with as the puzzle gets pieced together.

But apparently you want me to go down a list of players on D1 and say town or scum for all of them? That's a waste of time.

Also more than just me commented that what boonskies said was perfectly fine to do.

It's not a read. If you would read, you would know that the claim that person made has all but confirmed WW town to me.

I'm not trying to solve it today. But I'm going to have everything ready for you when you all mislynch me or I get NKd. It's a list, of what I KNOW. When I flip, you all will KNOW the same stuff at that point. Hence why I asked you all to just trust me in one of my early posts. I don't expect anyone to just believe me now, but there will possibly be a time when I'm dead and you know I'm town and from that you'll know this list was useful and you can use it after that.

So I can't be town trying to help? Thanks, I appreciate your vote of confidence.

Also me knowing what my role is helps me believe WW's claim is correct. Because I believe the claim I'm fully ready to label them 100% town as long as they're telling the truth about the claim. I endorse them completely.

Why is that hard to understand? The game is a puzzle, two pieces have to connect eventually, and it just so happens these pieces fit together enough for me to know this.

I'm sorry you don't understand.

I'm just trying to provide the most information I can. I was able to confirm someone town and I think that is a good play to make.

We start with no information, we win when we get enough information to make informed decisions. If I can confirm someone, then I would like to think this is a positive to be shared with the group. It's not like me doing this has put their life in danger any more than it already was. Given the fact scum already know WW is town, they didn't need to be told. However town do need to be told. WW could make every post in the game "I'm town." to us, but how are we to believe them? I have decided to endorse WW as town to let the rest of you know it from someone other than their own mouth.

I know he isn't to you, but I can pretty much assure you Sal is town.

The wishy washiness is killing me:
"so if she is ascetic then I'll confirm her as town." - Complete confidence
"Well not really confirm confirm, but feel really confident" - Very confident
"If WW is telling the truth, then I'm believing they are town based on my role" - Only confident if WW is telling the truth
"and I know that WW is about 90% town." - Very confident
"you would know that the claim that person made has all but confirmed WW town to me" - Just short of complete confidence?
"Because I believe the claim I'm fully ready to label them 100% town as long as they're telling the truth about the claim." - Only confident if WW is telling the truth
"I was able to confirm someone town and I think that is a good play to make" - Complete confidence
"but I can pretty much assure you Sal is town" - Very confident

This wishy washiness is chronologically no less. Yeah I know what I just said in that prior post about wagon preference, but I changed my mind. I'm going with Kaboose.

unvote
vote Kaboose

[I Am Innocent]

My preference on the wagons above would be Radja > Kaboose > Klingon > PM > Nero

can you explain? so do you find all to be scummy but radja to be the most or what?

Radja and Kaboose scummy,
Klingon unsure, but willing to trust Nero (tho I do say most of my reads are opposite Nero's)
PM not feeling it
Nero is the best scumhunter I've played with in this player list, so yeah, not willing to vote for him D1. If he's scum, I'll figure it out eventually

[I Am Innocent]

332 is just trying to look for stuff to call scummy. He's literally just quoting everyone of his quotes and saying, hey look this is scummy because yadda yadda. Could do the exact same thing and turn it into a town perspective.

FoS: Innocent

You know, I'd actually really love if you did this. Because we can't see it, which is the entirety of why you are getting annoyed at the wagon.

Seconded.

[I Am Innocent]

lol @ I Am Innocent trying to use my first post to make me look scummy, because, you know, first posts are a great way to gauge anything in this game...

It was actually your 3rd post, and happened over 10 hours after your first 2 posts, so forgive me for thinking you were serious at the time. What was the point of it then?

"I'm waiting for a PM from the mod before I delve in to this game."

What motivation would I have, as scum, to announce someone else as town? Especially this early in the game? Where does that help in a D1 that scum use to create the most doubt? I'm trying to create confidence, the exact opposite.

I have stated MY ROLE coupled with WW/Sals CLAIM causes me to have great confidence they are town. I don't know if they're lying so I can't be exactly 100% sure, but if it's a true claim then put me down for a 99% that Sal is town.

Also what motivation would I have, as scum, to announce an ascetic claim as town? A role that does nothing but raise doubt in a player given that no one can know anything for sure about them until their flip? What motivation do I have to be a scum, say they're town? If anything if I was scum and lynched today, it would probably lead to a Sal lynch tomorrow? Maybe? If it did what does that gain scum? A dead player capable of causing doubt? It makes no sense.

My idea here is that by me being able to push the doubt out of the way for Sal's role I've done the town a favour because of the nature of an ascetic.

Like if someone claimed miller D1, and someone else could confirm it 100% to you, wouldn't that be something town would want?

In your 16th post, you say:

I'm not trying to solve it today. But I'm going to have everything ready for you when you all mislynch me or I get NKd. It's a list, of what I KNOW. When I flip, you all will KNOW the same stuff at that point. Hence why I asked you all to just trust me in one of my early posts. I don't expect anyone to just believe me now, but there will possibly be a time when I'm dead and you know I'm town and from that you'll know this list was useful and you can use it after that.

The disconnect I have is, you have said multiple times, if WW is telling the truth about his role, you know he is town based on your role. And you want that out there in case your NK'd or mislynched.

But wouldn't we have "your role" at that point, you know after you flipped, and also be able to figure that out for ourselves???

So why put that information out there pre-flip, when WW had no real pressure? That is what doesn't make sense to me.

You ask what's the scum motivation. I ask, what's the town motivation? I see none, which does not give me good vibes about your slot. Esp when you spent most of day 1, your first 20 or so posts with 0 scumhunting.

[I Am Innocent]

IAI, move your vote to Celt plox.

I've strongly considered it, and still might. There are two players on that wagon that are srsly making me think twice about it (radja and kaboose)

Speaking of which, why did you have a town read on radja earlier in the game?

Nero Cain
Salamence20
Radja
Kaboose
WoodyWoodpecker

I Am Innocent
Mainez
evilpacman18
SithLord84
Jazzmyn
PMysterious
pisskop
ConManMick

Boonskiies

Espeonage
GrayFoxxxx
Quaroath
ika
Klingoncelt

And since you list kaboose again here, does that mean radja isn't a town read anymore? If so, what happened to downgrade that?

I enjoy that you are distancing from your buddy now.

Also Kaboose, Quar, and PM are town.

My current lynch pool is Kaboose and PMysterious.

I can maybe compromise on Klingon.

[I Am Innocent]

311 both, but 452 just kaboose, radja no longer mentioned. was/is radja still a town read?

[I Am Innocent]

Our starting points are different. You're apparently starting with klingon, ika, espe and me kaboose and radja

[I Am Innocent]

I Am Inno - I don't know if MOD will confirm it or not but they did forget to send me my role pm to start the game. So there was a bit of time while the game was going on that I had no idea which faction I was in.

Okay, fair enough.

How about my other point now?

[I Am Innocent]

Ignoring them, I'd probably have a scum read on Klingon. Zero scumhunting. But that would mean I was either 1) wrong about both my initial gut reads or 2) one or more scum are already bussing at this point. Starting to wonder if this wagon is the easy mislynch wagon you always see D1.

Ikas play has sucked too. Just trolling it up. If you remember our last game together, I refused most of day 2 to vote him because no way scum draw that kind of attention D1 by hammering like that. I ended up being wrong and thank goodness I finally agreed with u and voted him end of D2. Needless to say I am much more wary of him now and would not mind a wagon starting there.

Not feeling the espy hate.

[I Am Innocent]

Ps at work so stuck phone posting the rest of the day...

[I Am Innocent]

Kaboose, knowledge gathering in thread is good, but problem is scum also see that knowledge. It's why we don't mass claim D1.

You really believe we are going to forget WW/salamences claim? And if there is such a strong correlation as you said, don't you think salamence would have said something after you flipped?

I understand town scumhunts differently D1, my problem is that a soft claim can sometimes give a player a free pass to coast. Esp when that soft claim wasn't needed.

@nero, kids are doing good...little guy just turned 2 this week

[I Am Innocent]

mod I'm out of state camping with the family, I'll be v/la until Monday

[I Am Innocent]

So espy wanted to lynch kaboose because espy apparently was getting kaboose and salamence confused (salamence claimed IC not kaboose) and this caused scum to panic that town was going to trust espy, who already had her fair share of suspicion herself?

Espy would have been easy mislynch bait, I'm detecting a frame job. Not to mention your voting history is bad, you appear to be 0 for 4 in voting scum the first 2 days.

vote tere

Woody, who else do suspect besides Nero?

[I Am Innocent]

Mod there are 4 players who haven't posted since D2, can we get some prods?

[I Am Innocent]

Lol at cop + IC + 3 claimed masons

[I Am Innocent]

Anyone not voting tere better explain why in their next post...

[I Am Innocent]

role cop would also find any goons to be goons fyi

This is certainly not the case, that would make a role cop even more powerful than a regular cop.

What in the world made you think this was the case?

Ps

mod please clarify on this

[I Am Innocent]

vote dessew

[I Am Innocent]

Salamence was going to be confirmed D2 tho, so not sure I agree with the balance there, cause that would have meant a N1 investigation on that slot.

[I Am Innocent]

1/17 assuming he hadn't claimed D1 and neither of you were lynched.

[I Am Innocent]

@everyone not named Nero, kaboose, and xtoxm, why no vote? Where are you leaning?

[I Am Innocent]

What exactly is the case on Dessew

This whole game, Dessew has made TWO votes...both on players who haved flipped town:

VOTE: KlingonCelt
Obey the Cain.
Actually, she seems reluctant to discuss nearly (might be an understatement) anything game-related, such as her own vote or NC's case on her, as he has pointed it out before.

@PM:

hey there! Could you, please do me a favour, & post at least twice a day? Those posts don't have to be particularly insightful, just have them have content. Thank you.

Day 1 vote, was the 7th on the wagon (L-3).

Is everyone done for today? I intend to iso Kaboose, but it's not urgent. Actually, let's end this day, there's no point in making it any longer.
VOTE: Boonskiies

This is L-1, I believe.

Hardly to blame for this vote with all the antics Boon pulled D2.

But that's it. 0 for 2 on scum votes this whole game.

And D3 when the Tere wagon happened, this is all we got:

I've slacked off pretty vadly recently.
So Tere is anti-town. A lynch would be fine by me in the not too distant future, but not just now, first I'd like to lokk into this & that, & see if I can say anything that's worth mentioning.

Despite being anti-town, refuses to vote Tere. Doesn't want to end the day, but when he put Boon at L-1 (for also what I would consider being anti-town), Dessew had no problem suggesting "Actually, let's end this day, there's no point in making it any longer"

Did scum figure out by D3 that Tere was the traitor. Possibly. The one game I played in where I was a traitor, scum had figured out by D3 who the traitor was. If this scum group did as well, this does not bode well for a player who had no problem joining the hottest two wagons D1 & D2 but avoiding the scum one D3.

But the deciding post for drawing my vote was this:

Okay, so if there is an established norm for multiball, then consider this:
The NKs can be groupped like this:
Grayfox, Espe & Radja
Constantine, Sala & DGB
Now, we could argue over the quality of the plays & a million other things, but the first three players could be as potential (mis)lynch targets at the time of submitting the relevant NKs, while the deaths of the second three could be considered to be a detriment to us. What I'm saying is that every night so far there has been a kill clearly made by the mafia, but the other deaths seem to be vig-kills. My conclusion is that there is only one mafia faction, so based on Tere's interactions with Kaboose, he is innocent. (I hope it's not redundant, I'm pretty sure that role cop used to be a scummy role.)

While I see a big difference in the N2 & N3 targets (two players had shady vote histories, while the other two were a confirmed ascetic crier and un-counterclaimed Mason), the N1 involved two players,

neither of which had a vote cast against them this game

. And on gut, I would have considered Grayfox as the one who seemed to be under more scrutiny D1. Yet Dessew seems sure that Grayfox is in the group of "potential (mis)lynch targets" while Constantine is in the group of kills "considered to be a detriment to us." Was hoping someone else saw this, but apparently I'm in the minority on this one? To me is sounds like a scum slip on someone who has inside information.

That coupled with the votes/non-cast votes on D1-D3 makes Dessew my #1 suspect.

[I Am Innocent]

And why are people ignoring Kaboose

Haven't ignored it, remember I was the guy who laughed at tere for claiming cop saying that putting a cop + 3 masons + IC would be to crazy for the mod to do.

town rolecop, little less so but has me wary too. Still the play between tere and kaboose does not line up to them being teammates, and Kaboose has been one of the more active players this game. Rolecops cannot detect goons, and doesn't look like he would've been able to detect an investigation immune traitor either, so that does limit the power of such a role.

At this point I'd rather leave him one more night and see what he comes up with. If he is still alive tomorrow, I'm willing to talk some more.

[I Am Innocent]

Dessew, why evil from that group of 4?

[I Am Innocent]

This is painful.

[I Am Innocent]

Why evilpacman?

[I Am Innocent]

@ IAI-who do you think is scum now?

With 19 players and the game not over, i can't see anything other than 3 scum left with only a dead traitor so far. With vedith pretty much confirmed mason, that puts 3 of the other 5 players as scum. Could almost throw a dart and hit one of them.

My biggest scum read tho is ika. I found it weird when Tere attacked Kaboose the whole day and then after being busted, started included ika:

It's not a fakeclaim. I just think this town is such weaksauce that you guys might as well just lynch me and be done with it. It's not like anyone cares about the game anyway.

But nice job not reading.

Ika is third party BTW.

Kaboose or ika are genuinely third party though. You town should get on that

Wonder if that was distancing. Looking back, here is the last read that Tere had on ika:

Everyone else:

ika - lolhammer central, he has been doing something but it's as trolly as fuck, so trolly I went to the wiki to check if Lynchers are allowed in Normal games (they aren't BTW). ika, where do you stand on people other than nero? Nero calls him out for not being trollsy town in 102, so is he giving him what he wants? I hated the editing in 115 and Nero was right to call him on it. Unsure about ika. Need to see more. I see you've said you want to die so you can read the spectator board, if you feel that way why not replace out? It's not fair on the other players if you are trying to get lynched so you can afk.

"Unsure about ika" does not give me warm feelings, nor does "Need to see more." But the worse part is probably the concern for this slot getting lynched "I see you've said you want to die so you can read the spectator board, if you feel that way why not replace out? It's not fair on the other players if you are trying to get lynched"

Then there is the way ika acted AFTER tere claimed 25 posts earlier:

tere claim in next post with reads

The player known for the L-1 hammer wants to wait for a 2nd claim? Yeah that felt off.

Then finally, there was this from D4:

what would a rolecop get to a investigative immune traitor? also what would a rolecops resules be to a godfather or any investigative role

role cop would also find any goons to be goons fyi

Asks the mod a bunch of questions but seems content on not checking what the results would be on a goon...just absolutely sure that a goon would come back as a "goon" to a rolecop, even tho wiki explicitly says otherwise. At this point I started to wonder if ika was a mafia goon trying to hide behind the rolecop's "vanilla" investigation of him.

[I Am Innocent]

someone said they are conf town?

The only thing to go buy on me being town is that I'm a claimed mason (The person before me).
It was claimed at the same time with another Mason.

Everyone, lynch Boon, and let's see for sure if he is indeed a Mason.

No

PM and i are greys mason partners. Hey I softclaimed that before boon claimed. Wut?

.

[I Am Innocent]

The way I see it it is going to take 4 town working together to lynch scum, so I'd like to hear vediths thoughts on a possible ika wagon before I move forward. On the flip side, if 1 town votes another, there could be a pile on and game over, so I don't plan to rush my vote, sorry.

How about instead of getting all huffy and threatening with me, sell me on a different wagon. Cause ur case on Mario's slot left a little to be desired.

[I Am Innocent]

Not sure I understand you about ika, are you leaning town or leaning scum there?

[I Am Innocent]

Look at newbie games, 9 players, 2 of which are scum.

This game had 19 players, just slightly more than double. Which puts 4 scum as the likely number. Could it be 3? Possibly, but extremely unlikely if one of the 3 is a traitor. I would think 5 would be more likely in that case, but since this game hasn't ended, it has to be 3 scum left.

[I Am Innocent]

@ I am - I think that over all he can been seen as scummier rather than not. But as there are most likely no last mis lynches left I feel stronger on Mick being scum than Ika.
I would vote either to confirm a lynch though if it was agreed.

Okay fair enough. Still want to hear from conmanmick, OGML, and if we ever get a replacement for Mario.

[I Am Innocent]

Yes where are you leaning conman?

[I Am Innocent]

I don't see much significance, he was going to be revealed beginning of day 2 anyway.

How is that question relevant to your scum hunting?

[I Am Innocent]

With 1 guaranteed town voting conmanmick and no pile on to date, I think this is the best vote today

vote conmanmick

[I Am Innocent]

Now let's see if I'm the hero or the fool

Hero!

[I Am Innocent]

if con claimed sk we could of had this game maybe

This.

[I Am Innocent]

thank god this is over. IAI was scum as soon as he stared pushing IKA.

I was bummed when I saw we were on opposite sides