NY 192: Game Shop Mafia (Over)

[Fro99er]

VOTE: JarJarDrinks
Because the awful acting.

Spoiler:

<psst>

{what}

<that's Drinks, not Binks>

{oh, um, but it doesn't need to make sense}

VOTE: davesaz

This seems like an unusual opening from you from all one time I've played with you.

[Fro99er]

Omgus?

VOTE: Dwlee99

OMGUS is not alignment indicative.

[Fro99er]

Correct. But you're reason for voting dwlee was because he OMGUS'd.

Don't facepalm me.

[Fro99er]

Cool, Aero is probtown.

Also I remembered wrong about davesaz. Only game I played was open 614 where he caught up several pages into the game, so I haven't seen davesaz RVS

VOTE: Frozen Angel

[Fro99er]

VOTE: pisskop

[Fro99er]

It's clear death note has never played with me.

RC has though. Why was my entrance bad RC?

[Fro99er]

Or "weird as fuck"...whatever.

[Fro99er]

You scumread him for doing a weird RVS vote without ever having seen him do an RVS vote?

Right. But I was right in that I DIDN'T remember him making an opening like that. I just misremembered I hadn't seen him make an opening at all.

Would scum me really be that lazy on post one?

[Fro99er]

VOTE: dwlee

[Fro99er]

Also his vote hop.

What's wrong with vote hopping?

[Fro99er]

VOTE: dwlee

VOTE: Fro99er

I don't like that as soon as I say that I'm suspicious of you and another person, you immediately vote the other person.

Are you fucking kidding me. That had nothing to do w you. But keep telling yourself that

[Fro99er]

Aero might actually be scum.

He knows my vote hopping is pretty fucking normal for town!me and has even said so in past games. This time he spins it as me giving into his pressure which is bullshit.

[Fro99er]

Pisskop....What's your take on me so far?

[Fro99er]

Aero might actually be scum.

He knows my vote hopping is pretty fucking normal for town!me and has even said so in past games. This time he spins it as me giving into his pressure which is bullshit.

link meta

Sure. Here's the exact post: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p7188512

[Fro99er]

Aero might actually be scum.

He knows my vote hopping is pretty fucking normal for town!me and has even said so in past games. This time he spins it as me giving into his pressure which is bullshit.

link meta

Sure. Here's the exact post: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p7188512

Aero said this in that game

Ok, this jumping around Fro99er is doing is pretty indicative of how i've seen him as town. Like if you need a reference go look at Refraction Mafia, the man changed his mind like fifteen times a minute. Town froggy.

Now he's saying I'm moving my vote in reaction to him which is

a) self centered
b) wrong

[Fro99er]

Pisskop....What's your take on me so far?

Why so worried about what pisskop thinks of you? You know your allignment. Why not ask about what pisskop thinks of others?

I'm not worried.

Why are you spinning it as worry?

I'm trying to engage pisskop because all he's done is fluff post.

You are seriously pissing me off. I have no idea why you came in here to throw shit at me

[Fro99er]

This player list is going to drive me up the wall

[Fro99er]

No, it wasn't BS. It was true because you were buddying me there.

You know my vote hopping is town. It was in refraction. It was in that game.

Now you're pretending you were saying BS? You know what you said was true there, even if you were scum.

[Fro99er]

Why do you think he asked me about himself, aero? I want to know your actual line of logic here.

The question is, why ask about yourself? What does he gain from that information wise?

I gain a ton of information asking what pisskop thinks

[Fro99er]

I don't care that you vote hopped, I simply thought about what I would do as scum, if somebody accused me and someone else of being scum, I'd try to turn it against that other person, as well as distance myself from them.

IT HAD NOTHING TO DO W TH YOU ACCUSING ME

JESUS FUCK

I would seriously replace out of this game had I not pre inned because I wanted to play an AP game.

[Fro99er]

Aero is probably town, because I don't think he, as someone I consider a MS friend, would make me this angry if he was scum who knew I was town.

[Fro99er]

No but why does it at all matter what he thinks about you though? Like YOU KNOW YOUR OWN ALIGNMENT so I legitimately don't get that.

I know my name is an alignment.

But I'm trying to get a feel for if pisskop knows my own alignment or if he's legitimately trying to figure my alignment out.

I'm engagin pisskop because I know he fluff posts a lot as both alignments and I want him to produce something of substance, so why not start with his read on me?

[Fro99er]

Phone posting. No idea how it forrected to "my name is an alignment"

Although it would be cool if there was a frog alignment.

Ribbit!

[Fro99er]

SOMEONE TELL ME EXACTLY WHY THESE TWO STARTED TOWN READING EACH OTHER?

I explained how I town read him.

It's very clear.

I'm not sure why Aero suddenly townread me.

[Fro99er]

For now, yes.

I am a bit concerned he realized that push was going nowhere and suddenly decided this push wasn't worth it.

But I townread him at the same time as he dropped it. Our posts were literally crossing cyberspace.

[Fro99er]

Aero might actually be scum.

He knows my vote hopping is pretty fucking normal for town!me and has even said so in past games. This time he spins it as me giving into his pressure which is bullshit.

"This is subjective and not in any way a real argument."

What?

Also, why you no answer my question?

[Fro99er]

Or maybe ending it there was intentional

I assume you're saying you ending it there. Not me.

If so, that's possible too.

FWIW I did come to a townread of you before I realized you were ending it, so I'm leaning town on you.

[Fro99er]

P sure FA is town too.

That wanting to know how Aero and I came to town reads of each other sounded legit town confused/frustrated

[Fro99er]

Like, FA is probably one of the strongest D1 town reads I've ever had on D1 outside of masonry.

[Fro99er]

It's opportunistic.

No, that is an incorrect generalization.

I vote hop all the time as town. You need to give better reasons for scum reading someone than "vote hop"

[Fro99er]

Fro99er has been acting more and more increasingly textbook scummy

Explain.

[Fro99er]

Wat

[Fro99er]

p. awful vote, tbh. This is literally the worst vote I've ever seen.

Explain

[Fro99er]

VOTE: dwlee

[Fro99er]

VOTE: dwlee

[Fro99er]

Guess I'm getting mislynched for the first time. *shrugs*

I was already votimg you.

[Fro99er]

VOTE: dwlee

VOTE: dwlee

VOTE: dwlee

[Fro99er]

Wat?

[Fro99er]

Dwlee why did you decide to adapt the bold stuff like others are doing?

[Fro99er]

258

"I want to bold too!"

[Fro99er]

Vote hopping is opportunistic unless you do it as town normally. Do I need to clarify that.. or??

Because I'm on the computer for once and I can use bold tags without having to type it out? And it emphasizes stuff.

You originally said vote hopping was opportunisitc.

Now you are conveniently changing it to opportunisitc if you don't otherwise do it as town.

[Fro99er]

Are you seriously going to paint me bolding stuff as being scum? Are you for fucking real?

So why are you bolder my after everyone else did?

And yes I'm serious.

[Fro99er]

Also his vote hop.

They know how I am in RVS and they have seen my scum game. Their vote is awful.

Also his vote hop.

What's wrong with vote hopping?

It's opportunistic.

Aero might actually be scum.

He knows my vote hopping is pretty fucking normal for town!me and has even said so in past games. This time he spins it as me giving into his pressure which is bullshit.

"This is subjective and not in any way a real argument."

What?

Also, why you no answer my question?

I was quoting Aero.

Dwlee' original stance on vote hopping for the record

[Fro99er]

Are you seriously going to paint me bolding stuff as being scum? Are you for fucking real?

So why are you bolder my after everyone else did?

And yes I'm serious.

And for fucking real.

[Fro99er]

And fuck you, fro99er.

[Fro99er]

VOTE: dwlee

[Fro99er]

Cuz I'm breaking my town meta. Dwlee's scum.

[Fro99er]

I prefer general douche

[Fro99er]

VOTE: Radiantcowbells

VOTE: Dwlee99
first player to post is always scum

First player to post about first player posting is always scum.
VOTE: Thecow

Crap I forgot to cite my reason for voting cow as OMGUS. You guys figured it out anyway, though.

VOTE: Frozen
Sheeping Aero.

Vote hopping!

See. I can paint anyone as vote hopping.

[Fro99er]

Like, at least Aero gave a (wrong) reason for calling me out on my vote hop. Dwlee just says blanket statement "vote hopping is opportunistic" then eventually adds the addendum (after I call him out on it) that it's only opportunistic "if you don't normally do it as town"

[Fro99er]

RVS vote hopping. lmao

You totally missed the point.

[Fro99er]

And Dwlee is probably town.

Why?

[Fro99er]

VOTE: Fro99ger

Why am I scummy to you?

[Fro99er]

And Dwlee is probably town.

Why?

I'll answer this if you answer mine.

What was yours?

[Fro99er]

Fro99er, why the vote repeats?

Cuz I'm breaking my town meta. Dwlee's scum.

[Fro99er]

Anything else?

[Fro99er]

VOTE: Fro99ger

VOTE: Dwlee

[Fro99er]

Nice misrep.
He voted me in a naked vote and didnt have a reason for it until

100

posts later.

I am not even old enough to smoke xD

I has reasons. I just didn't say them.

[Fro99er]

FWIW I'm ignoring Keyser soze. Said I'd never play another game with him, but I was pre inned and he joined and Indidnt want to out AP's game.

[Fro99er]

Every recent completed game of his is on a hydra. Nope nope nope.

Wrong.

Not even close to correct.

[Fro99er]

Pisskop, I wholeheartedly think Dwlee has made up his mind and will use the evidence to fit the read.

Dwlee...go check pun mafia in little Italy. Or numbers mafia in little Italy's completed games. If you want a scum game go check micro 533 in Mayfair club

[Fro99er]

k fro99er just ignore someome you shpild be trying to read.

I am reading him.

[Fro99er]

Cool, then go check the ones I sent you.

There's also two completed large normals in the completed games section of this forum.

Flower festival (town) and Delicious 2 (scum)

[Fro99er]

Also, if Dwlee is actually town then Nosferatu's hop on looks really gross. Just ISO Nos.

Nos' last post is the worst, justifying lynching Dwlee (by saying he's being counterproductive) for either reason (as flailing VI or flailing scum).

I'd rather not lynch town.

[Fro99er]

UNVOTE:

Read the first 3 for your d1 iso. The "town fro99er vote hops" thing is wrong, you do that as scum.

It's not wrong.

I do vote hop as town. Aero will verify that for you.

[Fro99er]

See. Dwlee fitting the evidence to the read.

No idea why he unvoted me then.

[Fro99er]

Betting is against the rules.

[Fro99er]

I don't understand FA

[Fro99er]

Imma sheep pk here. Looks like he knows what he's doing. I can't sort FA but I kinda want her dead t b h

Wtf?

[Fro99er]

Pretty much everything about you pings me scum. From the theatrics and line breaks, to the overemotionalness. These things always ping me scum, but I can't sort it without experience with the player. Can we not spam up the thread so much?

Why are the line breaks scummy?

[Fro99er]

VOTE: TheCow

[Fro99er]

FA, just vote Cow

[Fro99er]

Fair enough.

[Fro99er]

VOTE: DeathNote

[Fro99er]

Fro99er has been acting more and more increasingly textbook scummy until about the breaking point when they town-read each other. A town player getting flustered because he knew another aggressive townie was going to push him, yeah I get that. It's a little bullshit though.

This paragraph...

First I asked you to explain the textbook scummy. You didn't.

Then you sound like scum for the rest. Why would town be so upset two people town read each other?

[Fro99er]

Fro99er, were you repeatedly voting Dwlee because;
- you wanted to get a reaction out of him
or
- you are especially confident in your vote and want to make that clear
or
- some other reason?

I was pretty confident.

I think I was wrong

[Fro99er]

Weirdly Aero and I sound like we have the same reads

[Fro99er]

Wicked - I agree

[Fro99er]

Mod V/LA until Sunday 12/27. International travel

I'll check in a couple times but my activity will be very limited.

[Fro99er]

Point being, you guys won't be lynching me and with so many people starting to say they "scumread" me, I think I should say that now to save us some time.

Scumtell of the highest order, the premature offer to claim/PR hint.

[Fro99er]

@Mod is JarJar getting prodded/playing?

[Fro99er]

Mod V/LA until Sunday 12/27. International travel

I'll check in a couple times but my activity will be very limited.

Just hopped on the plane. V/LA with spotty access this week.

[Fro99er]

For some reason this game is getting me so salty.

I'm so glad I'm V/LA from this game. I started a minor catch up but I can't stand this game rn. RC and JarJar are the two I'm going to bounce ideas off because they are my strongest town reads. I think FA is close behind but I can't understand her all the time. Aero I believe is town. I think Dwlee is town too.

I continue to ignore Mr. Robot

DN needs to die. Cow, Keyser, Piss and Wicked are in my idk to possibly scum pile.

Not getting reasons. I'm on vacation.

[Fro99er]

I forgot wake Nero and davesaz were in this game

[Fro99er]

And zulfy

[Fro99er]

Ok. Beach time.

[Fro99er]

Stuff and things.

Way too many words here.

Still ignoring robot.

[Fro99er]

JarJar is still town.

Still not giving reasons because I like watching robot get annoyed

[Fro99er]

I will also NOT be claiming anything

else

yet for those just wanting me to claim ASAP.

Else? Meaning the treestump claim was legit?

If that's his actual claim it's almost so outrageous its town. Because treestump non-normal, but could just be one of the two allowable non normal roles.

JarJar, who ya scum reading because I'm not sifting through 50,000 words every time I have 5 min to come back to this game.

[Fro99er]

I 100% agree with the town list you posted, but I'm kinda feeling robot is also town (not positive) and pisskop is scum.

Dwlee is town too, I think.

Don't asked me to explain. I won't because there's way to fucking many words here and I don't have time to sit here and wall post with quotes and stuff.

[Fro99er]

Yes my robot read changed from my last check in. sometimes a run on the beach clears the mind.

[Fro99er]

I am upset because he is saying mislynches are wins. THEN he repeates himself. And yes, dave, I am pissed that my mislynch would be a win but that isnt my case atm.

Dwlee - I don't think it's a scum slip.

For example, I think it would be a win for town of robot was gone, regardless of alignment. It would make me hate this game a lot less.

Who are your top 3 scumreads right now?

[Fro99er]

Stuff and things.

Way too many words here.

Still ignoring robot.

counterproductive ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ﾉ

Irony coming from you. I like it.

[Fro99er]

Imma sheep pk here. Looks like he knows what he's doing. I can't sort FA but I kinda want her dead t b h

Ew

[Fro99er]

Yes on robot.

Dwlee I'm reading based off his emotions on how I pushed him earlier.

He's also starting to do some town things I cant expand upon further.

I weirdly feel like pisskop is trying harder than normal (?). It's a really shitty meta read, but I've never been able to read PK.

That cow quote I just quote makes them seem like a legit scum team. Still want to keep pressure on DN because he wanted to claim so early is usually a scum tell. And his frustration with people town readimg each other is so weird. I can't help it if I started to townread Aero. Like am I supposed to pretend the past doesn't exist and I don't remember it?

[Fro99er]

1v1 me binks

Lol

Just please.

[Fro99er]

Ok gotta go.

[Fro99er]

Right, because I'm voting DN who I'm also scum reading. I fail to see the problem with having multiple scum reads.

[Fro99er]

Oh that last part was at Jar I guess

[Fro99er]

Aero - will do re: JarJar tonight prob.

Just for you <3

[Fro99er]

Final thoughts before I go to sleep...
Aero, JarJar, DeathNote, Dwlee, Keyser, RC, and FA looking like town.
Nosferatu, Fro99er, Wake, and Nero are null.
Cow, dave, pisskop, and Zulfy looking like scum.

How the hell am I null after 100 posts?

[Fro99er]

@Aero - JarJar is vet clearly town to me. Last (and only) time I played with JarJar he made some very strong points that I didn't think of and we worked together fairly well to eliminate scum. Very forst post of JarJar'd (after his I'm here post) was him making points nobody else did in regards to the "LAMIST" comment about DeathNote saying he was going to avoid tunneling.

Second post he town reads FA for the same reason I do, but gives the added reason why she's scum reading Neeo to be valid and not scum motivated (by FA)

JarJar was the one to point out robot's win-win being investigated misspent with a town mindset (it's not a win to have someone lynched if they are town)

JarJar explained his switch from an early scum read of RC to a town read of RC very clearly.

All I see from JarJar's posts are town motivation and scumhunting.

Please excuse any typographical errors. Phone posting.

[Fro99er]

VOTE: davesaz

What the fuck is with his "pushes" against JarJar and the logical inconsistency bullcrap on robot?

It's like he's trying to appear to scumhunt but is doing a really shitty job of it.

[Fro99er]

Every game someone takes a post of mine like the Keyser question and says it's not scumhunting, and I'm getting sick and tired of it.

Examples?

[Fro99er]

Davesaz can you give me your top two town and scum reads because I don't find your reads to be clear.

[Fro99er]

JarJar was the one to point out robot's win-win being investigated misspent with a town mindset (it's not a win to have someone lynched if they are town)

Investigated misspen should say inconsistent. Ducking phone.

[Fro99er]

Wake needs to do something other than prod dodge. That push on Dwlee was meh while completely ignoring the rest of the game.

[Fro99er]

I don't like to move passed DN , but regarding to the conversations already happened about his role , I can give that slot sometime to recover ...

This doesn't make sense to me.

Why are you backing off on your DN vote/pressure?

[Fro99er]

100% what JarJar just said. L-1 and claim is fine in general, but should not be a hard and fast rule.

[Fro99er]

Also good point re: Dwlee.

[Fro99er]

100% what JarJar just said. L-1 and claim is fine in general, but should not be a hard and fast rule.

Like, that's something you learn in newbie school but the game does evolve beyond newbie school.

In fact, half the things I learned in newbie school don't even really apply.

[Fro99er]

Frog seems to be townreading dwlee so there's that.

FWIW it's just a town lean. He's not in my "would never lynch" pile. You're actually doing a good job of getting me to reconsider him.

[Fro99er]

{JarJar RC} Town as fuck
{Aero FA Keyser} Town
{Dwlee} Town lean
{Wake Nero Nosferatu zulfy} Null
{DN pisskop} Scum lean
{Davesaz Cow} Scum

I realize wicked isn't here and that's because I have no idea where to place wicked. Wicked isn't really null as they've posted content, and I've seen some things I both like (reads list somewhat similar to mine) and dislike (null reading me (validated by robot null reading me)). I probably need to interact with wicked more.

Wicked, why are you town reading DeathNote?

[Fro99er]

{JarJar RC} Town as fuck
{Aero FA Keyser} Town
{Dwlee} Town lean
{Wake Nero Nosferatu zulfy} Null
{DN pisskop} Scum lean
{Davesaz Cow} Scum

Final thoughts before I go to sleep...
Aero, JarJar, DeathNote, Dwlee, Keyser, RC, and FA looking like town.
Nosferatu, Fro99er, Wake, and Nero are null.
Cow, dave, pisskop, and Zulfy looking like scum.

Like holy shit our reads lists. Wicked, I asked about DN town but also why is Zulfy scum? I can't get a read on Zulfy.

[Fro99er]

Ok beach time. Back tonight!

[Fro99er]

My role is mostly confirmable.

I am in a kind of awkward position right now in the game and don't want to vote or give my scum read or full claim. Like, I know that sounds weird but there is actually a reason for it.

I do have a couple scum reads, maybe not with the best cases but they are there. Just give me a little bit longer.

Why would you even out that you have such a role on D1? What use does it serve to claim PR when you were nowhere near lynch?

[Fro99er]

Sorry Jar. I'll join you on DN if ya want. I know there's more support for a DN wagon as well (Aero, FA) but everyone has seemed to go another direction.

[Fro99er]

Keyser and Nosferatu are strong enough town to me to call them obvious. Aero is the weakest of the strong / strongest of the weak.

You're gonna need to explain Nosferatu because that seemingly came out of nowhere from what I'm remembering.

[Fro99er]

Thanks wicked. I'll go read those posts you linked to and see how I feel. It's hard skimming/catching up while on V/LA

I just find it funny you think I'm skilled/experienced while Keyser treats me like I'm a moron and tries to tell me how to play.

[Fro99er]

Have you played with Zulfy before? See my response to RC (986).

I haven't. Reading now.

[Fro99er]

Zulfy - his catch up posts made me think he was trying to blend in or avoid saying anything controversial. In particular, asking me why I don’t have any other opinions (beyond my vote choice) on page 8 seems like a question he’s asking out of obligation rather than genuine interest. I mean, seriously, why would he ask me why I’m not giving more thoughts on page 8 when a.) there are thirty more pages now and I have given more thoughts and b.) it’s not like I was contributing less than everyone else - it’s weird that he would single me out like this. And then he calls me a "lurkasaurus that burps scum every time it speaks", yet he has no other questions to ask me or no other posts to attack. Feels like he’s just following the crowd.

Ok I feel like I get half of this and the other half I don't get, but maybe it's a meta thing from you two?

I don't mind him asking that about your comments on page 8...IF it didn't come some 30 pages later. I think it's a pretty legit question otherwise.

Then you say he singled you out, but why couldn't he just be trying to latch on to you as someone he has experience with? I mean, I did the same with Aero.

But yeah the lurkasaurus part doesn't really make sense because it's not like you've contributed nothing (especially compared to players like Wake which makes the singling out appear worse for Zulfy)


Can you explain the following the crowd part? Were other people doing similar?

[Fro99er]

I'll reread 889 in an hour or two.

[Fro99er]

TLDR: You're scum and you should feel bad.

This would have worked for me

Srsly tho, holy shit nice post.

[Fro99er]

@Keyser

Please can you explain the development of your scum-read of davesaz

[Fro99er]

100% what JarJar just said. L-1 and claim is fine in general, but should not be a hard and fast rule.

Like, that's something you learn in newbie school but the game does evolve beyond newbie school.

In fact, half the things I learned in newbie school don't even really apply.

Eh, I still think it’s a good rule.

The only reason for a person to claim is if we’re mass claiming or if they’re at risk of getting lynched

. But we’re not mass claiming. And if a person’s not at L-3/L-2/L-1, then they’re not actually at risk of getting lynched either.

FWIW If he can't answer that question, then I support seeing a role claim.

Or apparently this...

I am a Miller.

Vote: Keyser Soze

because he's really suspicious

[Fro99er]

Neither of what makes who town?

[Fro99er]

I wasn't saying wicked s town if that's what you were implying Aero.

Reading comprehension FTW

[Fro99er]

The miller claim actually adds onto my town read of wicked, I forgot to quote it.

Cool. I claim Miller

[Fro99er]

Spoiler= tags people. Use them

[Fro99er]

Jester

Again.

Reread.

That wasn't me calling him town.

[Fro99er]

Neither of those things make him town.

Since I need to spell it out for you.

I was pointing out the irony in wicked saying don't claim early and wicked claiming early. It was funny. I never said that makes him town nor did I say that makes him scum.

I'm still not sure what to think of Wicked

[Fro99er]

I just spit coffee out of my nose

[Fro99er]

The miller claim actually adds onto my town read of wicked, I forgot to quote it.

Nosferatu is null because I don't have enough to lynch them atm.
Deathnote claimed PR - not pursuing that today.

Massclaim PR. We're all town.

[Fro99er]

Fuck guys Dwlee is scum.

He pulled out the same quotes for wicked to town read him that he criticized him for earlier

[Fro99er]

Spoiler: Dwlee criticizing Wicked

Dwlee, you missed this question;

RC is probably scum, actually. I am p sure of it.
And D5 when town decides to lynch you and you flip scum, rc?

If you thought RC was probably scum, then why were you not voting him? Instead, you are sheeping Aero's page 1 "I don't like this post" vote for Frozen Angel, which he removed a few pages later...

Why "most likely the latter" ?

Because two scum wouldn't do that?

Why not?

I don't understand...

Are you jokingly referring to page 9?

If so, I can play along and try to come up with a funny response. Otherwise, I don't know what you're talking about.

No, RC

Guess I'm getting mislynched for the first time. *shrugs*

Why is that scummy pisskop?

Im not even a little interested in a repeat of last game. Im not holding it against you.

Context?

Fro99er, why the vote repeats?

^ wall of questions from wicked that don't seem to have content.

And so I should make up some bs reason to call you out on my vote hop than actually saying what I think about vote hopping? K then fro99er.

Spoiler: Dwlee town reading Wicked for a good chunk of the same posts

Unvote. Vote: Aeronaut

RC is probably scum, actually. I am p sure of it.
And D5 when town decides to lynch you and you flip scum, rc?

Why is RC scum?

Because her vote on me. She should know better.

Grossss
You can't expect any of us to relate to your personal knowlage of RC or his personal knowledge of you. This is subjective and not in any way a real argument.

You asked Dwlee for his reasoning. So why, when he gives his reasoning, do you discount it because it's personal knowledge rather than attempt to understand the reason itself? I think it's unreasonable that you would complain about the reasoning being un-relatable considering he only gave the reasoning because he was asked for it. Also, what does grossss mean in the context of a mafia game?

Sure. Here's the exact post: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p7188512

I was also scum in that game though, which means most of what I said was just BS

Not sure why this matters. Even if you were scum, it still remains true that you acknowledged him vote hopping in another game where he was town - yet voted him for similar behavior here.

Generally when town he gets into a townVtown and really flustered early on. Check Refraction Mafia if you want to see a good example of this, I almost had to replace him multiple times. As scum, he's really calm and quiet and non confrontational; check Delicious Mafia 2 if you want a good example of that.

Is this grossss?
Do you think Fro99er is aware of this tell?

Dwlee, you missed this question;

RC is probably scum, actually. I am p sure of it.
And D5 when town decides to lynch you and you flip scum, rc?

If you thought RC was probably scum, then why were you not voting him? Instead, you are sheeping Aero's page 1 "I don't like this post" vote for Frozen Angel, which he removed a few pages later...

Why "most likely the latter" ?

Because two scum wouldn't do that?

Why not?

Guess I'm getting mislynched for the first time. *shrugs*

Why is that scummy pisskop?

Fro99er, why the vote repeats?

Wickedestjr is the santa hat guy, I had to check their name. They seem to be active lurking with their last few posts or they're just lost.

I

am

somewhat lost. The only person that I suspect right now hasn't posted since I voted for him. Having said that, I asked each question for a reason and just because you don't see that reason doesn't mean I'm scum that's active-lurking...

Stop asking questions pls.

What should I do instead?

I like his questions early.

Wow, that was quite a lot to catch up.

The impression I'm getting through the last several pages is that dwlee is scum caught for the wrong reason.
First there may have been some misinterpretation of his stance about vote hopping being scummy.
That got cleared up and he's taking heat for an opinion which goes against the grain a bit.
Having a position which is "wrong' compared to the norm isn't scummy per se, but the reaction certainly looks it.

VOTE: Dwlee99

This feels like opportunistic scum...

Unvote. Vote: davesaz

First one onto dave.

He also has a lot of scumhunting that I'm not quoting.

[Fro99er]

Ah missed that.

Why did that one post completely flip your read of wicked?

[Fro99er]

And why was your mind changed about the questions?

[Fro99er]

What suddenly made those townie questions to you?

[Fro99er]

I am completely flipping my read on Dwlee to scum.

[Fro99er]

Like - going from

"wall of questions without content" (paraphrase)

To

"I like his early questions" (direct quote)

Makes no sense. How can you completely change from what essentially reads as "his questions sucked" to "those exact same questions were good"

[Fro99er]

Keyser is scum. I feel it. I have to check over it but it feels like his play in justified.

Also you never expanded on this.

Why aren't you still scum reading Keyser?

It feels like scum!dwlee made this up.

Also, given I'm town reading Keyser, I find this hard to believe ... or should I say it isn't ... JUSTIFIED (dun dun dun)

[Fro99er]

It's kinda funny.

The bullshit reasons I find to scum read people are often correct (davesaz opening, dwlee's bolding).

Most of the time people then jump on me for pushing bullshit reasons, but they aren't really BS. they just seem like BS until later they are proven correct.

[Fro99er]

I think both Dave and Dwlee are scum.

I'm fine with both wagons.

[Fro99er]

We should just FlashLynch Dave then Dwlee.

That would be fun if it didn't preclude us from forcing other scum to leave a trail.

[Fro99er]

Anyway

VOTE: Dwlee

This is probably the strongest D1 scum read I've ever had absent of a scumslip.

[Fro99er]

Seriously. I'm fine lynching Dwlee or Dave today.

Mod basically clinched the Dave scum case that we had been building prior to that, and Dwlee is just as bad if not worse.

Why did Dwlee drop the Keyser scum read if Keyser was emulating his scum game?

[Fro99er]

Mod = Nos

Phone post autocorrect

[Fro99er]

Can we maybe lynch Daves first?

Is there a specific reason you want Dave first?

[Fro99er]

Jar/Aero/RC

We need to decide which wagon we want to push to lynch today.

[Fro99er]

<3

[Fro99er]

I changed my mind about what I find scummy.

So what DO you find scummy?

Who do you find scummy and why? From your own reasons, not somebody else's case.

[Fro99er]

And still want RC to answer me

[Fro99er]

And Dwlee you still haven't answered me about Keyser

[Fro99er]

Dont yo guys know how awful last minute wagon-switches are?

Not when it's from scum onto scum.

It's also nowhere near last minute.

We still have 15 days

[Fro99er]

I'm town reading Dweele ... so hard

Are you drunk?

[Fro99er]

Quote whatever you want me to respond to.

Jesus fuck doiley I already asked you why you dropped your scum read of Keyser when you were sure this was his scum game from Justified

[Fro99er]

@Dwlee answer these questions below. All of them

Keyser is scum. I feel it. I have to check over it but it feels like his play in justified.

Also you never expanded on this.

Why aren't you still scum reading Keyser?

It feels like scum!dwlee made this up.

Also, given I'm town reading Keyser, I find this hard to believe ... or should I say it isn't ... JUSTIFIED (dun dun dun)

Seriously. I'm fine lynching Dwlee or Dave today.

Mod basically clinched the Dave scum case that we had been building prior to that, and Dwlee is just as bad if not worse.

Why did Dwlee drop the Keyser scum read if Keyser was emulating his scum game?

I changed my mind about what I find scummy.

So what DO you find scummy?

Who do you find scummy and why? From your own reasons, not somebody else's case.

[Fro99er]

Actually... I said that I was voting dave because of the case zully made,

Where?

Who are you scum reading from YOUR OWN REASONS and not somebody else's reasons?

[Fro99er]

I'm town reading Dweele ... so hard

Are you drunk?

Why you asking ...

a bit.

but I'm ok. I know ...

I forgot Aero in my hard town reads.

and Dweele a bit less than you two.

Why are you town reading Dwlee?

It makes no sense because he has zero reasons of his own for scumreading anyone.

[Fro99er]

Like go look at Dwlee's reasons. They are "because Zulfy made a case" and "because Nosferatu made a case".

[Fro99er]

I swear we ether have a massively large scum team or a bunch of VI's/useless lurksacks

[Fro99er]

Dave and Dwlee are scum

Cow Wake Nero are all useless. FA is WTF. Keyser is a robot.

At least Nosferatu finally obvtowned.

[Fro99er]

Forgot DN with that lame early PR claim.

Thank god we have JarJar Aero Nos and RC

[Fro99er]

I can't see the scum!him your presenting.

LOL

Why are you town reading him?

Concrete reasons.

If you want to ignore my case on him be my guest. It doesn't make you look good.

[Fro99er]

I thought he is genuinely playing

This is not a reason to townread someone.

Scum can genuinely play too.

[Fro99er]

Lol you think I'm role fishing?

[Fro99er]

You think I'm chainsawing?

[Fro99er]

I didn't want to rope Dwlee until I saw that contradiction. I was lightly town reading him before. You're lying if you're saying I wanted to rope Dwlee immediately prior to that.

[Fro99er]

I said I don't have enough time to play atm.

You don't have enough time to play but you have enough time to come in here and throw out a few massively strong town reads with no scumhunting?

Cool.

[Fro99er]

Ok, now answer me who is scum.

I find it odd you have zero concrete scum reads of your own (just some sheeped ones) given I could lynch like 6-7 people right now.

[Fro99er]

Actually... I said that I was voting dave because of the case zully made,

Where?

Who are you scum reading from YOUR OWN REASONS and not somebody else's reasons?

I was scum reading keyser and you from my own reasons.

Was

Not am

Who ARE you scum reading from your own reasons?

[Fro99er]

Dave is going to claim, and we are going to move on from there.

And you called me out for role fishing?

[Fro99er]

This town is a disaster aside from like 5-6 of us.

[Fro99er]

You know? Your pissing me off atm...

I'm not trying to.

I'm just trying to get your reasons.

You want to do so later, that's fine. Just stay in the game.

I apologize.

[Fro99er]

Tis the season to not play mafia, I'll be around but less so. I have been reading and think Fro99er has lead a good charge on Dwel who probably warranted being lynched even before his contradiction. He also hasn't responded to his newfound wagon yet and for someone who has been so active, that just makes me think he is scared scum hiding.

So much this.

[Fro99er]

I just want Dwlee to state who he is CURRENTLY scum reading FOR HIS OWN REASONS and WHY.

Also I'm still waiting for RC to answer me.

[Fro99er]

The Dwlee resistance is amazing.

And don't spin this as Dave resistance. There are three of us who are very clear we would happily switch to Dave (me Jar Aero) if people would just let us get our Dwlee discussion out there. Because I'm still waiting on Dwlee and RC to answer some important questions and still trying to figure out all this Dwlee resistance because it baffles me.
Pedit: RC do you thin Jar Aero and I are scum?

We're the ones who hopped over.

[Fro99er]

So unless you think we're scum your point #3 is invalid

[Fro99er]

I'm not townreading Dwlee but I don't necessarily think his contradiction is a contradiction. People change their minds, yo.

That wasn't a mind change. That was a straight up contradiction. Others have explained it better than I.

And his stance on Keyser made no sense.

And his deflatedness now makes no sense. He could scumhunt if he was town but he's not.

[Fro99er]

Fine VOTE: Dave

[Fro99er]

Piss off piss

[Fro99er]

I have never known Dwlee to be a useful player.

I get a definite impression that he's a scum led counterwagon to Daves here.

Scum led?

The only three are me Jar and Aero.

And I led it.

Ergo you think I'm scum?

[Fro99er]

I got my answers.

Let's lynch dave

Doiley tomorrow

[Fro99er]

Its sub optimal play because its more complex than it needs to be, it allows for the introduction and implementation of flawed play, and there's literally no reason any point you've raised about why Dave can wait that doesn't equally apply to why dwlee can.

I'm building connections here for after people flip.

It's much more optimal play than wanting to flashlynch someone a couple days into a 20 day day phase

[Fro99er]

For example.

If Dave flips scum it makes Aero look pretty bad, especially if Dwlee really is town.

If Dave flips town, Dwlee is almost certainly scum and I'd feel better about Aero and worse about pisskop.

Yes these are preflip associatives, but I'm not married to one mindset over the other and they become post flip once Dave flips.

[Fro99er]

DVe you should probably

A) scumhunt
B) get your claim ready

L-2 with at least two people who have indicated they would be happy to vote for you.

[Fro99er]

I mean... not really.

Pisskop
RC
FA

Just of the people who have been here it's like half or more.

[Fro99er]

Anyway. What I did was very good for the game state regardless of pisskop trying belittle my play.

HarJar indicated there were associatives between Dave and Dwlee. I went to look for those (didn't find any) but found Dwlee's contradiction and some things that don't make sense from Dwlee as town. This led people to chime in and now a ton of links are formed. In my mind there's clearly two scenarios:

1) Dave flips scum: 100% certain scum is one of Dwlee or Aero and we can sort that shit out

2) Dave flips town: Dwlee is nearly confscum.

[Fro99er]

Lol RC I'm town.

Town line up lynches all the time.

[Fro99er]

Like RC you cannot seriously even think I'm scum rn.

Don't be this bad.

[Fro99er]

I don't remember ever saying Dave was town.

I don't think you did.

But I can see how you reacted to the Dwlee wagon and jumped on it for my case or were happy with the Dave wagon for Nos' case. And then you criticized Dwlee for sheeping cow and Dave wagons.

[Fro99er]

It's something I noticed and not interested in pursuing now Aero.

We should put Dave at L-1 so we can get this game moving.

We all know where it's headed anyway.

[Fro99er]

LOLOOOLOLOL RC

[Fro99er]

At least RC is paranoid town.

[Fro99er]

IDGAF what you say RC

[Fro99er]

It's hilarious that you're scum reading me after all we've played together.

[Fro99er]

RC is going to die just so scum can frame me.

[Fro99er]

If I vote dave now, can we please not forget about dwlee tomorrow?

Please vote Dav

[Fro99er]

If Daves flips scum and you're town you should slap yourself for giving scum an out to try to shift the vote and pin it on you.

So you're scum claiming?

Because that's what you're doing. Trying to pin it on me.

[Fro99er]

Aero vote Dave please