New York 195: Adventure Mafia - Game over!

[Ircher]

Outline the case for those two then, pls @Kop

[Ircher]

At work atm so got a spare 2 minutes.

Lets put a stop to this waste of time wagon. I am a 2 shot commuter. I did not commute last night.

That's likely a scum role tbh.

[Ircher]

That's likely a scum role tbh.

What are you talking about, the claim may be fake, it certainly seemed a bit premature and that's the kind of role you don't want to claim if you don't have to, but the role itself is more often pro town if anything.

Commuter has been scum in most games I've looked at with one.

The fact it's 2-Shot further suggests its a scum commuter.

[Ircher]

The fact it's 2-Shot further suggests its a scum commuter.

Why?

This is scum Copper protecting scum Kop.

[Ircher]

Cuz scum commuters are way more powerful than town commuters

[Ircher]

VOTE: matt

I'm ready to buy him as scum. I read again and I'm worried I've grown too lenient on explaining away scum as newbtown. newbtown still applies to cy, though

I'm inclined to believe Kop claim as town. On the one hand, it's kind of a who-gives-a-shit role, as far as I can tell. However, everything about Kop's ISO looks like someone who has a claim that can bail them out and isn't so worried about a lynch because of it. I'm more inclined to think town would play this way. Frankly, I've done this. Had a good, clear, town claim and sort of pissed around most of the day knowing that if I got anywhere near mislynch I can just spout my claim and everyone will move on. I think that's what this is.

And why is this town indicative? Quite the opp -- Town would prefer not to get nk'd whereas scum will make their fakeclaim obvious so they can use it as a "Get out of jail free" card.

[Ircher]

Thanks, think I've got it. 2x unNKable, normally a town role but not necessarily, cop believes it and irch doesn't.

I am not a fan of the claim either (mainly because as town it's a bad move).

What makes him more likely town are some of the players on his wagon and the fact it popped up now, when PM was the alternative (and lo and behold who made that wagon viable, why it's MagnaScum in collaboration with TerritownIrcher (?) and Nosferatu who never pushes her scum reads but this one is ok), instead of yesterday when Seth was busy shitposting left right and center.

@Ircher

Cuz scum commuters are way more powerful than town commuters

Whereas an unkillable innocent child is not a game breaking town role? Commuters are always x-shot or have some other limitations like even/odd-night regardless of alignment.

I was thinking even/odd more likely for town. Yes, full commuters are too powerful, but in a large, 2-Shot is much weaker than Even/Odd or Non-Consecutive modifiers.

Maybe I'm being stubborn, but my point is more that Kop shouldn't just claim whatever role and the wagon immediately disappears. The wagon wasn't even L-1 yet (as far as I remember).

The role could just as easily be scum as town (<-- That statement is 100% factual) and I feel scum would have had more incentive to claim then than town.

[Ircher]

You havent said a useful thing all-game.

[Ircher]

Thing is, I did answer it. If you had just read the posts above yours......

[Ircher]

We lynch Kop first. If Kop is scum, then I'll make the Copper case.

[Ircher]

It's an association case.

Kop is my primarily suspect right now.

[Ircher]

Kop, is it not obvious who I was refering to? It's just like how someone jumped on me earlier when I said us clearly refering to Titus and me in that context.

[Ircher]

Kop, is it not obvious who I was refering to? It's just like how someone jumped on me earlier when I said us clearly refering to Titus and me in that context.

But that's not right at all. It can't be an association read completely. You scumread Copper near the very start of the game, long before KOP was even a factor.

You obviously have reasons to vote for Copper other than him being associated with KOP, or you're bullshitting.

1) There's a thing called opinions/reasons/views change
2) I never said it was completely association. If you were paying attn, I implied/said it was *primarily* association
3) There's also the 4p neighborhood (and that assumption is based off of the wiki's theory)

Okay. Good response. You can remain as town, then. My only question is it about the way you're reading the game that makes Anen very likely town?

Also, I want to persist with my "Ircher is clearly town, and you guys are stupid for voting him" shtick, but his sudden silence after I just called him out on presumably lying is very telling.

[Ircher]

The other quote -- Be patient

[Ircher]

So right now I'm thinking Ircher is trying to avoid answering questions, which I hate. I think it would be worth wagoning Kop, because I don't like that Seth's awful scumminess is getting slipped past as "Oh he's just a troll", and if he flips scum I'm going to be looking fairly hard into the people who were trying that excuse to be honest. Kop hasn't done anything that really improves his image to me (Including a roleclaim this early), so
VOTE: Kop

Show me where I've truly avoided answering questions.

[Ircher]

Also, I think Kop is

L-1

[Ircher]

Wait, it's L-2; carry on.

[Ircher]

Votecount 2.7

Kop (6) - Expedience, Lowell, Ircher, MagnaOfIllusion, Nosferatu, Aneninen
projectmatt (2) - cytheflyguy, copper223
Titus (2) - zakk, drmyshottyizsik
zakk (2) - Titus, Shaziro
copper223 (1) - Nahdia
Aneninen (1) - projectmatt
cytheflyguy (1) - Kop
MagnaOfIllusion (1) - Liger_zero

Not voting (1) - Egg

With 17 alive, it takes 9 votes to lynch someone.

(expired on 2016-06-21 09:44:00) remain until day end.

Kop (7) - Exp, Ircher, Magna, Nos, Anen, Shaz, Shotty

[Ircher]

Read further.

[Ircher]

Thanks, think I've got it. 2x unNKable, normally a town role but not necessarily, cop believes it and irch doesn't.

I am not a fan of the claim either (mainly because as town it's a bad move).

What makes him more likely town are some of the players on his wagon and the fact it popped up now, when PM was the alternative (and lo and behold who made that wagon viable, why it's MagnaScum in collaboration with TerritownIrcher (?) and Nosferatu who never pushes her scum reads but this one is ok), instead of yesterday when Seth was busy shitposting left right and center.

@Ircher

Cuz scum commuters are way more powerful than town commuters

Whereas an unkillable innocent child is not a game breaking town role? Commuters are always x-shot or have some other limitations like even/odd-night regardless of alignment.

I was thinking even/odd more likely for town. Yes, full commuters are too powerful, but in a large, 2-Shot is much weaker than Even/Odd or Non-Consecutive modifiers.

Maybe I'm being stubborn, but my point is more that Kop shouldn't just claim whatever role and the wagon immediately disappears. The wagon wasn't even L-1 yet (as far as I remember).

The role could just as easily be scum as town (<-- That statement is 100% factual) and I feel scum would have had more incentive to claim then than town.

Just cuz you disagree with the reasoning does not mean I didn't provide one. Stop misrepping.

[Ircher]

hey the kop wagon is actually happening. I'm a trend-setter. You're welcome, world.

Kop (6) - Expedience, Lowell, Ircher, MagnaOfIllusion, Nosferatu, Aneninen

Likely scum pushed wagon

projectmatt (2) - cytheflyguy, copper223

Likely reason why the Kop wagon picked up steam now and not yesterday when it made a bunch more sense.

Titus (2) - zakk, drmyshottyizsik
zakk (2) - Titus, Shaziro

Likely town screwing up and cross OMGUSING each other.

copper223 (1) - Nahdia
Aneninen (1) - projectmatt

Likely scum waiting to see where the wind blows before moving from old wagons.

Not voting (1) - Egg

this is here to signal wtf are you doing.

Try to remember this snapshot of the game-state if I flip and/or if the players I am scum reading start flipping as expected.

VOTE: matt

I'm ready to buy him as scum. I read again and I'm worried I've grown too lenient on explaining away scum as newbtown. newbtown still applies to cy, though

I'm inclined to believe Kop claim as town. On the one hand, it's kind of a who-gives-a-shit role, as far as I can tell. However, everything about Kop's ISO looks like someone who has a claim that can bail them out and isn't so worried about a lynch because of it. I'm more inclined to think town would play this way. Frankly, I've done this. Had a good, clear, town claim and sort of pissed around most of the day knowing that if I got anywhere near mislynch I can just spout my claim and everyone will move on. I think that's what this is.

purple

= what Lowell wants people to see as his reason for switching his vote

blue

= what i see.



lowell is scum.

Yeah, that is a suspicious jump -- off the wagon right when it is about to go through.

I'll have to keep a closer eye on that slot.

[Ircher]

as a side note to ircher, commuters usually flip town more than scum, since it's pretty weak for scum to not be able to act at night when you could just give them ascetic or bp to protect against vigs/cross-kills and investigations.

But that's inconsequential because Kop is scum.

Thanks for the tip

[Ircher]

Yeah, Lowell can die too -- That jump off is just too convenient.

Pedit: Sure, scum Qdodge too, but scum are often more careful. I'm most certainly am when I'm scum. Yes, I was thinking up a good answer, but that's cuz I say stuff like that without thinking.

Pedit3: Ninja'd x2

[Ircher]

So:

Scum --> Kop, Lowell, Copper
Lean Scum --> Shaziro, Shotty
Neutral-Scum --> Nos, Liger (Don't like the inactivity there)
Null --> Cy (Please Vig)
Neutral-Town --> Zakk, Project, Egg
Lean Town --> Anen, Exp, Nahdia
Town --> (Ircher), Titus, Magna

[Ircher]

@Cy
Readlist pls.

[Ircher]

I'm actually uncomfortable with that too...and I think you had a good point with 2290 too.

Also, what copper meant was in the scenario he was presenting, Titus was town. The whole scenario was "if we assume Titus is town", was it not?

UNVOTE:

Please don't leave a wagon just cuz.

I understand we all have conflicting top scumreads, but we got less than a week left in D2, and while I can compromise on Lowell and Copper right now, I think it's better we lynch the scumread most of us hold in commmon: Kop.

It might prove difficult to find support for another wagon.

[Ircher]

What the votes say, assuming Titus is having a bad game and being used as a battering ram to take the heat, by scum:
Titus: town by definition in this world.

I was 100% ready to disagree with you, to show this quote and say "Oh, hey, see? Copper said 'assuming Titus is having a bad game and is being used by scum', so the point is that the base assumption was that Titus is town. I think that -was- the base assumption of the scenario...but Copper you offered to do the opposite scenario VCA, assuming Titus was scum. I don't see that anywhere. And you've had quite a bit. Care to explain?

Lolol, I forgot he promised to do that.

[Ircher]

Yeah, so someone should vig Copper prob. if we don't lynch him.

[Ircher]

Nahdia, readlist pls.

[Ircher]

Why do you feel useless rn?

[Ircher]

Look at Kop and Lowell's ISOs.

I think those are the other 2 most of us agree are prob. scum.

Anen is in my townpile tbh rn.

[Ircher]

You should look at Lowells more recent posts. They might change your mind.

[Ircher]

@zakk, I've been here since 2006, but that includes five years or so off and I normally play "normals" as much as possible--mostly because I don't like games with confusing roles. So, no, I hadn't seen commuter before. Or if I had, I had forgotten about it. I could have wiki'd it I guess.

I agree with Liger that nahdia's "omg replace me" post--while I'd like to not read too much into it--looks very town. I also think exp's bizarre "claim, no jk don't claim" sequence likewise looks town. Though I can't say why... something about the openness of it, maybe. zakk gets townpoints too for his aggression, though I could see that as scum pressing his advantage as well, depending what kind of mood I'm in when I read it.

I'd like to hear the case on kop a little better explained. Like I said his power wouldn't seem to be such a great loss, but my inclination towards calling him town was the over-eagerness with which he claimed. It just doesn't seem like something scum would want to do until they KNEW they were in big trouble. Why not just, be more active, if you're scum?

But Kop knew he was in big trouble; that's why he did it then -- to try to derail the wagon.

Both Magna and I have laid out the Kop/Seth case, so please go ISO us to see our reasons.

[Ircher]

Titus, what's your thoughts on Lowell's reaction to the Kop wagon before and after the claim?

[Ircher]

Why?
UNVOTE:

[Ircher]

What's the chances of a Lowell wagon?

[Ircher]

Though, I still find that you cant explain everything by being new & a troll & that Kop has done nothing (granted a couple of others have too)

[Ircher]

Meh, I still think Kop is scum, esp. with the way Lowell got off the wagon.
VOTE: Kop

L-1

[Ircher]

...VOTE: Lowell

Srry Copper and Kop........ Lowell's prob. scum tho.

[Ircher]

VOTE: kop

LOLHAMMER!

This day has gone on too long, and I am thirsty for blood. No one wanting to drop the hammer here makes me think we're on the right lynch. I don't know that titus' quasi-claim precludes a 2-shot role, but I am convinced by the argument that as town kop's claim is relatively useless but as scum it's very very powerful. So sit back and let's enjoy.

I'm also not so worried about a wagon being "scum driven." If this is indeed mulitball as it seems, scum are equally searching for scummy players, so I'm less inclined to believe it's in anyone's interest to push "obvtown" wagons. That gives the votes a little more heft.

tl;dr-- kop has been basically useless, and his role is useless as town and powerful as scum.... so let's DO THIS!!

I didn't like your earlier wagon distancing and I especially don't like the fact that you lolhammered when supposably, you disliked the Kop wagon.

Care to explain?

[Ircher]

?

[Ircher]

??

[Ircher]

copper223,

Town Neighbor,

was killed Night 2!

Expedience,

Vanilla Townie,

was killed Night 2!

Aneninen,

Mafia Encryptor,

was killed Night 2!

Expedience is a nice, quiet kill to make. I think that kill is likely the SK kill (if there is a SK).

Anyone think the Copper kill is an attempt to frame Magna? I mean, unless a vig wants to claim the kill, I'm thinking it's likely the mafia kill.

Anen is almost certainly a vig kill imo.

Pedit: ???

[Ircher]

How about telling me what it means, rather than just repeating it?

Pedit: Ok

[Ircher]

I probably was leaning Liwell and less Copper by the end of D2.

[Ircher]

updated reads:

town reads
{

Egg

,

projectmatt

ConvergentConclusion

}
{

MagnaofIllusion

,

Aneninen

,

Expedience

alban

}
{

Liger_zero

I Am Innocent

,

Ircher

}

middle reads
{

drmyshottyizsik

,

cytheflyguy*

}
{

Nosferatu**

} need to read up... he's been prodded twice too
{

Nahdia

Desmond_13

} = lurksack af? quite active elsewhere/site chat. however, no prods... ?
{

copper223

}

scum reads:
{

Kop

SethYazura

,

Shaziro

heuristically_alone

}
{

Lowell*

}
{

Titus

}


dead:

Persivul

Robert2424

- Lynched Day 1 -

Town Neighbor

Killthestory

- Killed Night 1 -

Vanilla Townie

EspeciallyTheLies

- Killed Night 1 -

Vanilla Townie

TehBrawlGuy

- Killed Night 1 -

Vanilla Townie

Phone post so no formatting but

Liger abs magma move to middle section since copper was town
Nadia moves to high town
Project Matt and egg move down one
Shaziro moves down

Titus + Shaziro with Lowell as third

I would look for lots of seemingly uncoordinated opposition to certain wagons bc scum we now know had day talk

That further damns Titus
Maybe ircher too come to think if it

How am I implicated?

Lowell is prob. scum. I really want to say Liger is scum out of Magna/Liger. Shaziro I could see as scum alongside you and Titus.

[Ircher]

Alrighty then! Nos, apologies for misreading you. I get the feeling I've been misled at this point, and I can drop a vote now but I'd rather have the night to look over interactions and reconsider thoughts. I've been busy all day working on Father's Day stuff, or I'd say I'd have it done later tonight.

Shaz/Nos team confirmed..... Jk......

[Ircher]

FUCK YEAH! Large game!

VOTE: zakk

shotty, irch... you guys town?

titus? you town finally?

also copper is town.

I'm going to throw this out there and let it marinate. See how well it ages.

magna is scum.

Something about his ISO bothers me. He wrote a lot to just agree with two short posts voting for TBG. He's written a lot about a LOT, but somehow not much. Could be this is just the way he is, but he's looking a little "coachy" to me.

Also townvibes from ETL, lessening townvibes from titus.

He is a very thorough usually.

okay, well, whatever, I'm damned sure not reading back games of someone that verbose. As I said.... consider, and come make this happen when we're done LOLhammering newbs*.


* in related news, I also plan to LOLhammer newbs.**

** but not seth. despite the sk claim (?) that guy is newbtown.

@Magna, IMMA HAMMER NEWBS!

liger is clearly town. one thing that hits me the wrong way:

liger says there's a neighborhood
titus says omg who b i bet theres at least one scum
liger says pers and magna
pers votes magna

Not a good look for pers there.

Is zakk scum, btw? I'm really asking. bc damn I do not know.

@copp and zakk, ya'll ain't lynching me. move along.

VOTE: cytheflyguy

I think this is scum. Looked through his ISO and I can't get a read that says town. And that vote seems more opportunistic than a genuine vote.

Here's an opportunistic vote. And whoa do I know opportunistic votes.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: kop

Still happy to vote zakk if we can. But since it's going nowhere, here's another idea. This reads very much like "shit who can I find who is a plausible vote, but not a current bandwagon, and isn't likely to come back at me." Even the way it is worded "I can't get a read that says town" is equivocal as whoa. It looks vaguely like coaching, but I don't think it is. I think just kop is scum.

hey the kop wagon is actually happening. I'm a trend-setter. You're welcome, world.

At work atm so got a spare 2 minutes.

Lets put a stop to this waste of time wagon. I am a 2 shot commuter. I did not commute last night.

Oh I didn't see this. This is going to be dumb question for someone who has been around for over a decade, but what's a commuter?

VOTE: matt

I'm ready to buy him as scum. I read again and I'm worried I've grown too lenient on explaining away scum as newbtown. newbtown still applies to cy, though

I'm inclined to believe Kop claim as town. On the one hand, it's kind of a who-gives-a-shit role, as far as I can tell. However, everything about Kop's ISO looks like someone who has a claim that can bail them out and isn't so worried about a lynch because of it. I'm more inclined to think town would play this way. Frankly, I've done this. Had a good, clear, town claim and sort of pissed around most of the day knowing that if I got anywhere near mislynch I can just spout my claim and everyone will move on. I think that's what this is.

VOTE: matt

I'm ready to buy him as scum. I read again and I'm worried I've grown too lenient on explaining away scum as newbtown. newbtown still applies to cy, though

I'm inclined to believe Kop claim as town. On the one hand, it's kind of a who-gives-a-shit role, as far as I can tell. However, everything about Kop's ISO looks like someone who has a claim that can bail them out and isn't so worried about a lynch because of it. I'm more inclined to think town would play this way. Frankly, I've done this. Had a good, clear, town claim and sort of pissed around most of the day knowing that if I got anywhere near mislynch I can just spout my claim and everyone will move on. I think that's what this is.

And why is this town indicative? Quite the opp -- Town would prefer not to get nk'd whereas scum will make their fakeclaim obvious so they can use it as a "Get out of jail free" card.

What I'm saying is I've definitely leaned on a claim as town but haven't done it as scum. As scum it's more of a desperation move. So I see this as more of a town move. As though he looked at his role and thought "ah, okay, well I won't have to try very hard at first if I don't want to." But yes I get that this is WIFOMy, so sure, feel free to disagree.

VOTE: kop

LOLHAMMER!

This day has gone on too long, and I am thirsty for blood. No one wanting to drop the hammer here makes me think we're on the right lynch. I don't know that titus' quasi-claim precludes a 2-shot role, but I am convinced by the argument that as town kop's claim is relatively useless but as scum it's very very powerful. So sit back and let's enjoy.

I'm also not so worried about a wagon being "scum driven." If this is indeed mulitball as it seems, scum are equally searching for scummy players, so I'm less inclined to believe it's in anyone's interest to push "obvtown" wagons. That gives the votes a little more heft.

tl;dr-- kop has been basically useless, and his role is useless as town and powerful as scum.... so let's DO THIS!!

WooooOOOOOOO time to bask in the glory of the many many accolades coming my way. zakk, you start?

Lest both scumgroups attack me and I die a thousand hilarious deaths, my top scumreads are projectmatt and anen, with my top townleans as zakk, cy, and nahdia.

[Ircher]

@Zakk - I strongly prefer Lowell.

[Ircher]

looking back at Seth. i felt he was town, but now that i KNOW he was im curious about who was quick to jump on him when he did his weird shenanigans. scum will often be quick to jump on what they feel is a "justified" wagon. fiirst person i see is Ircher who i do recall having as a scumread so

VOTE: Ircher

I was the main proponent of the Kop wagon, yes. (The other being Magna.)

But, to call it scummy for me to push a wagon is stupid.

[Ircher]

Yeah, so someone should vig Copper prob. if we don't lynch him.

Here's the quote. So this is you suggesting that somebody should off Copper, and he flipped town tonight. You were wrong, and were directing PRs to an incorrect target. The reason, I assume, was that I brought up that he never did the "If Titus is scum" half of his big analysis thing. That is what he agreed was bad just before painting a target on copper. Now, Copper may've been a scum kill and he may have been a town kill, we don't know. But we do know that Ircher put the target there. What's up with that, Ircher?

What's up with what? Show me the scum-motivation first -- Being Wrong != Scum.

[Ircher]

Alright so looking back at Titus and Ircher's interactions, I could see that being distancing. It looks like Ircher was going along with Titus, and Titus didn't mind and was defending Ircher, but the moment somebody mentioned it Titus switched into hardcore "NOPE DEFINITELY NOT LINKED TO THIS PERSON SHHHHH" mode. Ircher tried to explain things, and Titus slammed on the gas again. Even with daytalk, I can see them definitely wanting to show everybody that distance between them and drive a hard wedge in that thought. That's not looking good. Ircher, the scum motivation for directing town PRs to a town target would be eliminating town, and eliminating the odds that a town PR kills you or your scumbuddy. That should be blatantly obvious to you, and asking me to "show you the scum motivation" in that is ridiculous. What's the current Vote Count looking like?

That requires me to know Copper was town in the first place.

Again, prove that I knew Copper was town before making faulty conclusions.

[Ircher]

Yeah, definitely could lynch Shaz too.

[Ircher]

If you are scum, then you know that they are not alligned with you. This means they are either scum that wants you dead if multiball, or town. Given the number of kills, I believe we're assuming multiball (multiball being scum vs scum vs town or scum vs SK vs town etc, right?). Either way, if you are scum, you know that they aren't on your side, and want them dead.

Key part here is "If you are scum" -- Explain why you think I'm scum.

[Ircher]

How about cuz I scumread them (Shockers)?

[Ircher]

Hrm..... Will wait for reviews and perhaps compile the Lowell case

[Ircher]

preemptive defense: LOLHAMMERs are great and those who do them are great.

preemptive defense: LOLHAMMERs are great and those who do them are great.

I am DrMyShottyIzSik and I approve this message.

Brought to you by the ad council and the foundation for a better lolhammer.

1) Not a defense
2) Katsuki lolhammered and was wrong. Still salty about that.
3) I hate lolhammers without good reasons. (Backtracking & rehashing & distancing from wagons are not valid reasons for lolhammering)

[Ircher]

*pulls hair out* These flips.

Will read up tonight/early morning.

Looks a bit like crocodile tears here. OMG U GUYZ IM SO MAD UGH WE LOST SO MANY TOWN O MAN.

Thoughts on Lowell's fast hammer before we could discuss the my modifier based CC?

You asking permission?

Hrm..... Will wait for reviews and perhaps compile the Lowell case

You asking Titus' permission?

This has been pointed out before (by shaz I think? to lazy to look back), but I'm starting to see the link between titus and irch. At very least they're both trying to feel around to see what kind of traction they can get on me before they actually commit to facing my wrath.

Way to misrepresent what prople said.
VOTE: Lowell - Shotty - Bus Lowell and we may give you some towncred

[Ircher]

UNVOTE: Lowell

[Ircher]

I'll buy the claim.

Pedit: My, oh my....

Btw, if you guys are seriously only gonna lynch between Titus and me, you should 100% lynch me over Titus.

Pedit: .....

[Ircher]

@Zakk, 3 kills in a night

strongly suggests

a vig no?

100% yes

however, caveat:

if by some thing there are 2 scum teams and an SK

and if town has more blocky-healy-protecty type powers to counter-act balance stuff

then SK could easily claim vig and get away with it




another reason why it's

not

good to speculate and lynch due to speculation, however

still is good

to speculate, and figure out what may be happening, and decide to

let things resolve themselves

based on proper evaluation of said speculation, and educated guesses based on what might be the proper course of action





and let me know where i lost you, because i'm sure i did, yea?

SK claims vig putting a target on his back to both factions and you would call that easy to get away with? That serves no purpose for an SK whatsoever.

You're trying to speculate to remove ways of town recognizing each other and that's not cool.

So why did you choose to ignore the part where he specifically said that, in that case, town would have blocky-healy powers to counterbalance? In that case, town would be more likely to protect the SK who was claiming vigilante, because they consider them conftown. You're now misrepresenting him too. You're flailing.

UNVOTE: Lowell
VOTE: Titus

Didn't you hear me?

If you are lynching only between Titus and me, you should lynch me first.

[Ircher]

VOTE: Shaz

I've been feeling this midway D2 tbh, I just had more important concerns (Kop, Lowell)

Pedit: Still townread....

[Ircher]

No.

Why not?

Two reasons, the first of which is that I don't feel like you'd claim like that. The second is for ~reasons~ that would be bad for town to be outed atm.

This? @Titus

[Ircher]

@Shaz -- I quoted the relevent quote where you breadcrumbed.

[Ircher]

Now you're rolefishing. No, I'm not a jailkeeper. I wasn't crumbing, those weren't my ~reasons~. Interesting that you assumed they were though. Gonna need a minute to figure that all out, preliminary thoughts are that if you're town, you were worried you'd be a target on nights that you couldn't do whatever thing you need to do, so you wanted the defense. If your role is odd night and important enough that you need to not be blocked, that would mean it'd be bad to make you claim. If you're scum, obviously you just wouldn't want to be blocked on nights when you can do your thing, whatever that may be.

Thrn what ~Teasons~ are they or at least guve a specific, somewhat detailed reason why you cant say what those ~Reasons~ are?

[Ircher]

Lols. You vig me and not the guy claiming vig.

Fake or scumclaim.

Moving onto getting the Shaz to confess.

What were your ~reasons~ if not that you had jailed me?

Obviously fake; remember D1?

[Ircher]

I did explahy I couldn't say my ~reasons~, that it would be bad for town. Now you're pushing for something bad for town, and rolefishing, and flailing. Christ alive.

What other ~reasons~ could be bad for town besides a possible pr role ability?

Be more specific.

[Ircher]

EBWOP: Explain Why*


P-edit: You're -still- fishing after I called it out? Lol.

Go ahead & lynch me.

You'll be lynched next barring something crazy.

[Ircher]

Townpoints to shaz and shotty for being so very very wrong about me. It's bad that they're wrong, but good that they don't mind being wrong.

Scumpoints for titus for being obv right and trying to buddy. Everything she says about my claim goes without saying. Seems counterintuitive, I know, but in general I find those trying to stay on the good side of conftown are scum.

Also, @zakk, yes, basically I changed my mind on kop. At first I was focused on the 2-shot part and thinking "hey, yeah, that's def true," but then I thought about it and decided even if the claim is TRUE, it doesn't mean it's town. Especially given my killing role is also 2-shot. Also again I don't want to lie to you, having the opportunity to be the LOLHAMMER was a big draw. It may have clouded my judgment a little.

This is nonsensical, but looking at your win/loss history, it's probably NAI.

[Ircher]

Then who is scum, @Lowell?

[Ircher]

Hrm....

What if the neighborhood doesn't have scum?

[Ircher]

But, if that were the case, then the neighborhood would prob. be a bit more active......

So, yeah, the neighborhood prob. does still have scum in it.

Pedit: If it's not PR-related, then what other reasobs could they be? Meta?

[Ircher]

No.

Why not?

Two reasons, the first of which is that I don't feel like you'd claim like that. The second is for ~reasons~ that would be bad for town to be outed atm.

1) First reason is meta
2) Second reason highly suggests a roleblocking pr (esp. looking back at it)

Explain pls.

[Ircher]

Christ alive, Ircher, I've made it very clear that it is bad for town for me to explain it. You're either scum who actively wants town to suffer, or just a VI who can't accept that he's wrong. Either way, I'm not explaining more than I already have, so stop fishing.

No, I'm not, cuz you're seriously backtracking.

Pedit: Thats what Magna said in his report

[Ircher]

Summary of the Neighborhood QT -

Basically it was dead. Copper and I continued to snipe at each other. Liger showed up late, basically told us to keep it in the main thread and didn't really provide any thoughts himself which struck me as odd given his hard-on that my Night 1 activity was scummy when I was clearly V/LA. I still have reasons to lean that he's Town but I want to see what the Moiputer comes up with.

[Ircher]

Christ alive, Ircher, I've made it very clear that it is bad for town for me to explain it. You're either scum who actively wants town to suffer, or just a VI who can't accept that he's wrong. Either way, I'm not explaining more than I already have, so stop fishing.

I'm not a VI; simply different.

Also, I'm 5-14 win-loss.

[Ircher]

You've decided I was claiming a role. I've made it clear that no, that's not what I was doing. You're refusing to believe that for no other reason than what appears to be an inability to accept that your assumption was wrong. I'm done with this. Vote me if you want, hell, make an actual case and you can lynch me, but I'm not elaborating more. When I've made it clear that it'd be bad for town and you're still pushing it, I'm done trying.

Gove a list of other things those reasons could be that would be bad to have outed as town.

[Ircher]

Regardless, I want to know what other sorts of reasons could be bad for town if outed.

[Ircher]

here's a perfect example of you taking one "solution" and running with it

maybe he knows you're not a vig (and yet is not a jailkeeper) because:
maybe he's a vigilante himself
maybe he blocked (not jailed) you
maybe he tracked you nowhere
maybe he tracked you to someone, and they're not
maybe he tracked someone else to you, and you're not dead, and he assumes they blocked or jailed you

either way, you're trying to out him because...?

there is no pro-town reason.

you're doing exactly what you're accusing me of doing, and you aren't even being timid about it




it's time for titus to die.

He explicitly claimed not JK/RB and strongly implied not PR.

[Ircher]

Give a list of non-PR related reasons.

[Ircher]

1) Didn't look like it in this instance
2) Possible, but that's a WIFOM argument
3) His ~reasons~ suggests otherwise. Maybe he didn't put the two together (I didn't til Titus mentioned it recently), but I would say it's fair to assume it as a pr breadcrumb
4) He's the one who volunteered ~reasons~; Titus was just scumhunting, not role-fishing
5) Again, possible but WIFOM

1,3,4 are unlikely imo and Shaz imo should've said so already if it's 2 or 5.

I appreciate your willingness to cooperate though.

[Ircher]

So, Shaz-Zakk-??? team

And who else? Perhaps pmatt, he hasn't been very useful tbh.

[Ircher]

it doesn't suggest he knows anything... it just suggests he's being a dumbass

which, incidentally, was the reason for my post 3192 in the first place



stop overthinking things and just like... slow your roll when trying to make sense of idiots.

i've had to do that a lot this game

This is *SLIGHTLY* more accurate than Shaziro's 3201.

[Ircher]

3205 is a disaster.

MoI for lynch.

What's wrong with it?

[Ircher]

Votecount 1.2

Ircher (6) -

copper223

, drmyshottyiszk,

Killthestory, TehBrawlGuy

, Egg, zakk

Copper223

(2) -

Titus

, Ircher

Liger (1) - MagnaOfIllusion

MagnaOfIllusion

(1) - Shaziro

Killthestory

(1) -

Liger

zakk (1) -

Lowell

Not voting (9) -

Percival

, Nosferatu,

Expedience

, Projectmatt,

Kop

, cytheflyguy,

Aneninen

, Nahdia,

EspeciallyTheLies

With 21 alive, it takes 11 votes to lynch someone.

(expired on 2016-06-02 14:10:00) remain until day end

Votecount 1.7

cytheflyguy (6) - zakk,

Titus

, projectmatt,

Kop

, Shaziro, Ircher
Ircher (5) -

TehBrawlGuy

, Egg, cytheflyguy,

Persivul

, drmyshottyiszik

Kop

(3) -

copper223

, Nosferatu,

Aneninen

Copper223 (2) - Killthestory, Expedience

MagnaOfIllusion

(1) -

Lowell

TehBrawlGuy

(1) -

MagnaOfIllusion

Killthestory

(1) -

Liger

Titus

(1) -

EspeciallyTheLies

Not voting (1) - Nahdia

With 21 alive, it takes 11 votes to lynch someone.

(expired on 2016-06-02 14:10:00) remain until day end

MagnaOfIllusion is V/LA until May 23.

Votecount 1.8

Ircher (6) -

TehBrawlGuy

, Egg, cytheflyguy,

Persivul

, drmyshottyiszik,

EspeciallyTheLies

cytheflyguy (5) - zakk,

Titus

,

Kop

, Shaziro, Ircher

Kop

(3) -

copper223

, Nosferatu,

Aneninen

Killthestory

(2) -

Liger

,

Expedience

Copper223 (1) - Killthestory

MagnaOfIllusion

(1) -

Lowell

TehBrawlGuy

(1) -

MagnaOfIllusion

Not voting (2) - Nahdia, projectmatt

With 21 alive, it takes 11 votes to lynch someone.

(expired on 2016-06-02 14:10:00) remain until day end

MagnaOfIllusion is V/LA until May 23.

Votecount 1.13

Kop

(4) -

copper223

, Nosferatu,

Aneninen

, projectmatt

TehBrawlGuy

(4) -

Titus

,

MagnaOfIllusion

,

Kop, Killthestory

Shaziro (3) - zakk,

TehBrawlGuy, Lowell

Titus

(3) - drmyshottyiszik,

Persivul, EspeciallyTheLies

Killthestory

(2) -

Liger

,

Expedience

Ircher (2) - Egg, cytheflyguy

copper223

(1) - Nahdia
drmyshottyiszik (1) - Ircher
cytheflyguy (1) - Shaziro

Not voting (0)

With 21 alive, it takes 11 votes to lynch someone.

(expired on 2016-06-02 14:10:00) remain until day end

EspeciallyTheLies is V/LA until May 31.
Ircher will be V/LA from May 30 to June 3.

Votecount 1.14

TehBrawlGuy

(4) -

Titus

,

MagnaOfIllusion

,

Kop

,

Aneninen

Ircher (4) - Egg, cytheflyguy, drmyshottyiszik,

copper223

Shaziro (3) - zakk,

TehBrawlGuy, Lowell

Kop

(2) - Nosferatu, projectmatt

Titus

(2) -

Persivul, EspeciallyTheLies

Killthestory

(2) -

Liger

,

Expedience

drmyshottyiszik (1) - Ircher
cytheflyguy (1) - Shaziro

Aneninen

(1) - Nahdia
zakk (1) -

Killthestory

Not voting (0)

With 21 alive, it takes 11 votes to lynch someone.

(expired on 2016-06-02 14:10:00) remain until day end

EspeciallyTheLies is V/LA until May 31.
MagnaOfIllusion is V/LA until May 31.
Lowell is V/LA until May 31.
Ircher will be V/LA from May 30 to June 3.

Votecount 1.17

TehBrawlGuy

(6) -

Titus

,

MagnaOfIllusion

,

Kop

,

Aneninen

, Ircher, cytheflyguy

Aneninen

(4) - Nahdia,

Lowell

, projectmatt,

copper223

Kop

(3) - Nosferatu,

Expedience

, Egg

Killthestory

(1) -

Liger_zero

cytheflyguy (1) - Shaziro
zakk (1) -

Killthestory

Egg (1) - drmyshottyiszik
Shaziro (1) -

TehBrawlGuy

MagnaOfIllusion

(1) -

Persivul

EspeciallyTheLies

(1) - zakk

Not voting (1) -

EspeciallyTheLies

With 21 alive, it takes 11 votes to lynch someone.

(expired on 2016-06-02 14:10:00) remain until day end

Ircher is V/LA until June 3.

Votecount 1.18

TehBrawlGuy

(7) -

Titus

,

MagnaOfIllusion

,

Kop

,

Aneninen

, Ircher, cytheflyguy,

copper223

Kop

(4) - Nosferatu,

Expedience

, Egg,

TehBrawlGuy

Aneninen

(3) - Nahdia,

Lowell

, projectmatt

Killthestory

(1) -

Liger_zero

cytheflyguy (1) - Shaziro
zakk (1) -

Killthestory

Egg (1) - drmyshottyiszik

MagnaOfIllusion

(1) -

Persivul

Titus

(1) - zakk

Persivul (1) - EspeciallyTheLies

Not voting (0)

With 21 alive, it takes 11 votes to lynch someone.

(expired on 2016-06-02 14:10:00) remain until day end

Ircher is V/LA until June 3.

Votecount 1.22

Persivul

(10) -

EspeciallyTheLies, Lowell

,

MagnaOfIllusion

,

Titus

,

copper223, Expedience

, Shaziro, zakk,

Killthestory

, Ircher

TehBrawlGuy

(3) -

Kop

,

Aneninen

, cytheflyguy

Kop

(2) - Nosferatu, Egg

Aneninen

(2) - Nahdia, projectmatt
zakk (1) -

Liger_zero

Titus

(1) -

TehBrawlGuy

EspeciallyTheLies (1) - Persivul

Not voting (1) - drmyshottyiszik

With 21 alive, it takes 11 votes to lynch someone.

(expired on 2016-06-05 16:30:00) remain until day end.

Aneninen is V/LA until June 3.
MagnaOfIllusion is V/LA until June 11.

Votecount 1.26

Persivul

(11) -

Lowell

,

MagnaOfIllusion

,

Titus

, zakk,

Killthestory

, Ircher,

Expedience

, Shaziro, cytheflyguy, projectmatt, Nahdia

Killthestory

(5) - Egg,

Kop, TehBrawlGuy, coppper223

, drmyshottyiszik

TehBrawlGuy

(1) -

Aneninen

EspeciallyTheLies (1) - Persivul

Kop

(1) - Nosferatu

Not voting (2) -

EspeciallyTheLies

,

Liger_zero

With 21 alive, it takes 11 votes to lynch someone.

(expired on 2016-06-05 16:30:00) remain until day end.

Titus is V/LA until June 6.
MagnaOfIllusion is V/LA until June 11.

Votecount 2.9

Kop

(9) -

Expedience

,

MagnaOfIllusion

, Nosferatu,

Aneninen

, drmyshottyizsik, Shaziro, Titus, Ircher,

Lowell

MagnaOfIllusion

(2) -

Liger_zero

,

copper223

projectmatt (1) - cytheflyguy

Titus

(1) - zakk

copper223

(1) - Nahdia

Aneninen

(1) - projectmatt
cytheflyguy (1) -

Kop

Not voting (1) - Egg

With 17 alive, it takes 9 votes to lynch someone.

cytheflyguy is V/LA until June 23
Egg is V/LA until June 19.

(expired on 2016-06-21 09:44:00) remain until day end.

[Ircher]

Votecount 2.2

zakk (4) -

Lowell

,

Titus

, Shaziro, Ircher

Titus

(3) - cytheflyguy, drmyshottyizsik, zakk

Aneninen

(2) - projectmatt, Nahdia
Nosferatu (1) -

Aneninen

MagnaOfIllusion

(1) -

copper223

drmyshottyizsik (1) -

Kop

Kop (1) - Expedience

Not voting (4) -

Liger_zero, MagnaOfIllusion

, Egg, Nosferatu

With 17 alive, it takes 9 votes to lynch someone.

(expired on 2016-06-21 09:44:00) remain until day end.

MagnaOfIllusion is V/LA until June 11.

Votecount 2.6

Kop

(3) -

Expedience, Lowell

, Ircher

Titus

(2) - zakk, drmyshottyizsik
zakk (2) -

Titus

, Shaziro

copper223

(2) - Nahdia,

MagnaOfIllusion

projectmatt (2) -

Aneninen

, cytheflyguy

Aneninen

(1) - projectmatt
cytheflyguy (1) -

Kop

MagnaOfIllusion

(1) -

copper223

Not voting (3) -

Liger_zero

, Egg, Nosferatu

With 17 alive, it takes 9 votes to lynch someone.

(expired on 2016-06-21 09:44:00) remain until day end.

[Ircher]

Why are there a bunch of suggestive colors in your VCS Ircher?

Dead Town/Practically Confirmed Town

Possibly town; Soft-Claimed PR

Possibly scum (for setup reasons)

Confirmed Scum

[Ircher]

I would really rather not lynch people just purely because of speculation on there being one scum in the hood.

It is off the wiki that such chances are high.

[Ircher]

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Neighbor

[Ircher]

I strongly believe that the Kop wagon was town led.

Pedit: Are you kidding me? Not 100%, but you're acting like this is a bogus conclusion when it really isn't. It's like wikipedia tbh: 95% of the time it's right, and when it's wrong, it generally gets fixed quickly.

[Ircher]

anyone can say "in a pool of 4 neighbors, there's very likely one scum". that's such a horrible thing to use as a bounce pad to lynch someone though. it's a "fact", and scum love supporting themselves on facts, but it's not even hard and fast. it's a fucking stat. who is to say SirCakez could not have just put 4 town neighbors together? what stops him? nothing stops him, it's perfectly reasonable to expect he may have done that. i dont care about the statistics of what other mods have done. and ur hiding behind an outdated wiki with general statements is hilarious and honestly, p scummy to me.

i'm already voting u but now for EMPHASIS

VOTE: Ircher

I never said it was true for this particular case. All I said is that scum is more likely to be found in the neighborhood versus elsewhere. And, if the wiki's so outdated, why not update it? You're trying to bring mod WIFOM into this and misrep what I say to paint me as scum.

[Ircher]

i mean if you're scum it's dumb too but at least i can understand you're using a crutch. a really bad, flimsy crutch, but some people just arent great scumplayers and that doesn't necessarily speak to their intelligence

1) Don't insult other people's intelligence
2) I'm not good at mafia in general. Since you decided to vandalize my wiki page (which might I add has been fixed), you should've noticed that I'm 5-14 for win/lose.
3) I made a generalization based on previous statistics. That's how statistics work. And just cuz there's a high probability doesn't mean it's going to happen. Not once did I say there is without a doubt scum in the neighborhood.

Pedit: I've lost most of the games I've been killed in.

[Ircher]

Ircher

–

363 – Calls Anen possible scum for meta reasons (Micro 600). No apparent follow-up on that.

898 – Argues against a Town read Anen from HuerAlone again for meta reasons (Micro 600 and Newbie 1682).

1132 – Tells Nahdia to stop pushing for Anen votes. Given his previous posts related to Anen this is a strange 180.

1152 – Another defense of Anen – saying him being wrong doesn’t mean he’s scum.

2415 – This is a very soft attack on Anen – he basically is calling out Anen for Anen’s posturing on the Day 1 lynch.

2610 – Not sure what to make of this post. He asks Anen if PMatt is the only player he wants to lynch. Given daytalk … it doesn’t seem to serve a purpose. It doesn’t accomplish any distancing and Ircher could have prodded him to “do better” in the QT if that was the goal.

2859 – Anen is in his “Lean Town” on Ircher’s reads list. Reiterates this at 2891.

2974 – The only thing that rings in my head about this post is that he properly called Anen as being Vigged. Maybe nothing to it but I honestly was leaning Anen as SK shot, Copper Vig and Expedience as Mafia kill until Lowell claimed. Perhaps subconscious slip that he knows Copper was Mafia kill.

Conclusion

– Strong candidate for partner. A couple of early superficial suspicions of Anen until Anen actually catches some pressure from Nahdia. After that point it is almost entirely “Anen as Town” reads. I don’t think someone who honestly believes in the meta-tells he claims in the first two posts lets them go that easily.

I honestly did not pay much attn to Anen, much like in the newbie. Actually, the way I was reading Anen is practically the same thing I did in that newbie.

[Ircher]

How many people are primarily lurking right now?

[Ircher]

Why is everyone ignoring Shaz's bullshit?

My guess is that they actually went back under the assumption that you were wrong to humor me, re-read, and saw exactly where you got it twisted.

It wasn't twisted.

[Ircher]

VOTE: Ircher

I feel good about this lynch.

Reasons?

[Ircher]

VOTE: Ircher

I feel good about this lynch.

Reasons?

Don't like your posts.
I believe you were also a scumread of Copper, so I think thats worth pursuing.

What don't you like about my posts?

[Ircher]

@Zakk - I'm not useless in endgame. That's where I'm the strongest which my stats should clearly indicate that 4 out of my 5 wins had me still alive.

[Ircher]

1. Shaz - For that inconsistency Titus pointed out and the continued backtrack
2. Shotty - Cuz he's super annoying. You know, one of tjose vig shots.
3. Liger - The worse of the 2 in the neighborhood
4. Zakk - Healthy paranoia here
5. Pmatt - Good start, but became a lurksaxk
6. Egg - Being useless
7. Nahdia - AtE; Lousy misrep of me today
8. Titus - Healthy paranoia here; don't want to be stuck in LyLo with her
9. Cy - lynch all lurkers
10. Nos - Don't take chances
11. Magna - Don't want the neighborhood in LyLo either for WIFOm

LyLo:
Lowell - Conf town

Feel like I'm missing someone....

[Ircher]

also

@zakk: famaram why on earth do you want cy in lylo? Do you want to lose?

As for the vig thing I'm kinda looking:

Titus - probably scum
Shaziro - if titus is town probably scum
Liger_zero - PoE from neighborhood makes probable scum
Egg - is perpetually catching up and I don't like that.
projectmatt - probably scum or bad. The fact that bad is an option makes him lower.
Ircher - I'm on the fence.
cytheflyguy - might be lurkerscum
drmyshottyizsik - probably town but paranoia
Lowell - might be sk, or 2-shot strongman but probably not
MagnaofIllusion - probably town
zakk - probably town
Nahdia - probably town

Your ranked readslist is looking who is easy to lynch

If I was scum trying to strongarm mislynches, the list would also be in a different order. Shotty would be higher, ircher would be higher, along with cy and lowell, and zakk would be at the bottom. Magna would also switch places with liger. Try harder.

Hahaha! I'm not an easy mislynch tbh.

[Ircher]

VOTE: Liger

I trust Magna 650% more.

[Ircher]

Why not contribute something useful?

[Ircher]

All you've done is prod-dodge for like the last 3 weeks.

That and tunnel me.

[Ircher]

Fine, having something by tomorrow at the latest pls & ty.

[Ircher]

Question is – why? You expressed some level of understanding of Anen’s playstyle as scum early on. What happened that made you drop that like a hot tamale and never revisit it?

Laziness & the fact other people were catching my attn more.

[Ircher]

Spoiler: NY 195 - Day 3 - Liger ISO - June 23

1. 1438 - Very first thing Liger does is state there's a neighborhood -

I have absolutely no clue what you were trying to achieve by outing such info. -

Null-Scum (-1)

2. 1452 - Tries to avoid revealing neighborhood names by stating they are just likely as scum as anyone else -

I seriously don't care what the rest of you think, but a 4p neighborhood has a better chance of having scum than anywhere else. Sure, it's not a guarantee, and that's not what I'm saying, but it is factual to say (and if the wiki truly is outdated, someone should do something about that rather than trying to dispute things from the wiki. If it's truly so outdated where the previous conclusion is no longer the case, that ought to be fixed and is a major problem.) What I dislike here is how Liger mentions a neighborhood in his first post, yet when the follow up posts come, all of the sudden, Liger doesn't want people to lynch in the neighborhood. Why bring it up in the first place? The former seems like an attempt at towncred while the latter is scum hoping not to get PoE'd. -

Scum (-3)

3. 1867 - "Ugh, I am a bit mixed on him. Like I read his case on Persivul, it seemed reasonable, but that doesn't mean scum can't make a good case? I might just not want to be lynch Persivul cause he is in my neighborhood. I do say Zakk has good points. I just can't pinpoint why I think he is scum, even though some of his content is screaming town." -

What even is this? So, you think his content screams town yet you vote him in 1865, and furthermore, you can't even remember the reason why Zakk is town. Most perfect sense for scum trying to push a faked read. -

Scum (-3)

4. 2098 - Failed lolhammer; tries to make up excuses in 2099 -

Ofc, you switch wagons right when it's convenient: right when you think you can get away with lolhammering Percival. DIE SCUM! -

Very Scummy (-4)

5. 3000 - Reports Copper/Magna were fighting with each other -

You know what DIDN'T happen in the neighborhood ACCORDING to this report? Thanks for scumclaiming; ofc, scum!Liger would let Copper/Magna TvT fight each other while watching the conflict go by in the background. Please lynch this with fire; thanks! -

Near-Confirmed Scum (-5)

6. 3023, 3196, 3291 -

I think it was Shotty who mentioned this, but seriously, your votes seem very calculated and it seems like you only vote someone if you think there's little risk. Your voting behavior, etc here does not look genuine at all. -

Very Scummy (-4)

If we're not lynching/pressuring Shaz to explain his inconsistency, then we should definitely lynch Liger.

[Ircher]

Then do something about it.

If you don't want to be lynched, then participate. If your town, then the previous lynch should've been a wake up call for you.

You, Cy, Kop.... All you need to stop lurking and actually do stuff rather than prod-dodge constantly.

[Ircher]

Nice way to misrep; ever heard of something called an anology?

[Ircher]

I'm srry, I never said Kop was alive.

[Ircher]

Kop DID lurk D2 and that's part of the reason why Kop got lynched D2.

I'm telling Liger (and Cy) that if they don't want to be lynched today, they should start being useful rather than being useless like Kop was D2.

[Ircher]

*my bad....

Not a nice joke when you guys knew what I meant.....

[Ircher]

You said that Kop needed to stop lurking. Kop was dead. I don't think anybody was particularly suspicious of it...but you getting this defensive over it has me suspicious, to be honest.

No, 5 of you decided to joke about it.

You must think it's significant.

[Ircher]

i thought it was significantly funny.

[Ircher]

Lynch Shaz or Liger pls & ty.

Prod Dodge tbh. Nothing new to say.

[Ircher]

Then do something about it.

If you don't want to be lynched, then participate. If your town, then the previous lynch should've been a wake up call for you.

You, Cy, Kop.... All you need to stop lurking and actually do stuff rather than prod-dodge constantly.

Okay? I think you are not understanding the situation totally. Though I could be putting more effort into the game, I wouldn't say I am deep lurking...

Put more effort in. You are too lurking.

[Ircher]

Bored. Awake




Bored


Let's lynch cy or Titus

Fine, lynch Cy.
VOTE: Cythefly

[Ircher]

Not loving Cy's "let me just post town reads instead of scum reads". Reeks of not wanting to step on toes. Cy as SK is actually making a lot of sense. I eased up on him earlier mostly because I'm scumreading Ircher and doubt they're scum together and because that early Cy wagon was mostly my scum reads. But SK I can see.

It's less that I don't want to step on peoples toes and more that I can't back up scum reads. I can tell you now that by far Projectmatt and Titus are my two strongest scum reads, but both of those go off of gut feelings so...

At this point, you should at least have a few reads more than just gut -- particularly your top scumreads.

[Ircher]

Bored. Awake




Bored


Let's lynch cy or Titus

Fine, lynch Cy.
VOTE: Cythefly

With what I just said, I do want to point out I was one of the first people, if not the first person who wanted to make Titus a lynch. If she flips scum, I want there to be a wagon on Ircher bc there's already a strong wagon on Titus and a very small one on me. It makes more sense if you are given two options to choose from to join a wagon on to join the one that

actually is a wagon lmao

. I mean, that's just my opinion, but still

Oh hey look lol, I'm scumreading ^^

Oh hey look, that post is a piece of garbage!

No, it does not. You do not wagon just to wagon. You do not join the bigger wagon just because, especially if you townread that person. My vote stays as you obviously do not know how things work.

[Ircher]

The Cy ISO is barely over 30 posts.....

I shall make my case....

[Ircher]

Spoiler: NY 195 - Day 3 JUNE 25 - Cy ISO

1. 366 - Votes me with the following reason: "I have read nothing and everything at the same time. Ircher seems most scum atm so I'll go with him for now" -

First of all, that first part makes zero sense. Second of all, we (the thread) were just talking about how the Ircher wagon was bound to attract lazy, opportunistic votes from scum, and look at who fell for it: Cy. Unlike some of the other votes, the reasoning here is "Ircher is the biggest wagon and therefore scum." I don't care about stupid join dates; that's a lousy reason for a vote and even for newbies, that seems more like a stretch that scum make than town. Not to mention, the vote feels very forced. -

Very Scummy (-4)

2. 422 - PR Soft-Claim ("I'll be of more use later") and literally states he's gonna do nothing and simply watch where votes go. Not to mention the AtE. -

First of all, the soft-claim is #1) Super unnecessary and #2) Probably fake. Furthermore, you basicalky just said "Let me lurk, and I'll vote whichever wagon has the most votes." You don't want to make your own reads, and you aren't even sheeping other people's reads. You're just joining the biggest wagon, the one you think is most likely to carry through at this time. This is scum motivation; town would make some kind of attempt to scumhunt rather than literally make up bogus reasons to be lazy on purpose. -

Very Scummy (-4)

3. 425 - Again, waiting for someone more scummy to vote (since he's now the top wagon). His pedit actually states internet issues..... -

First of all, if you truly are town with connection issues, would it not make more sense to state so immediately rather than cast a lazy vote and try to justify uselessness? Scum on the other hand would use it as the perfect excuse to do nothing which is exactly what you are doing. Second of all, I dislike your wording here; rather than helping out, etc., you're just waiting on someone else to be the focus attn and then you MIGHT (Translation: Not) actually do something useful (Translation: Actually scumhunt rather than join the biggest wagon.) -

Very Scummy (-4)

4. 544 - States he thinks I'm scum and that the wagon is bad cuz it's on a lazy persion rather than who he "thinks" may be scum -

I haven't seen you provide a single reason or quote a specific reason from someone else that makes you think I'm scum. You know what that tells me? You're scum without an actually read on me who is just looking for the easiest target. Secomd of all, you imply that lazy people are not scum. Sure, Lazy != Scum, but laziness in general is NAI. And, if you are lazy, expect a wagon to form, as scum have more incentive than town to be lazy and/or lurk. -

Scum (-3)

5. 615 - States I'm still scum, but Copper moreso. -

1) That's still a lazy post 2) While I'm still the top wagon, I see your sudden shift. As the counterwagon, you don't want to have to defend yourself when I flip town, so you try to distance yourself from your scumread. Copper was a good target, cuz people were beginning to shift their attn to him. -

Scum (-3)

6. 1276 - Titus vote -

The reasoning here was also lazy and sucked. Not to mention, you never got to ISOing Titus; you only voted because Titus was a smaller wagon but had a lot people suspecting her. I bet someone is scumchat told you to switch targets (From voting the biggest wagon to voting a quieter wagon). -

Scummy (-2)

7. 1418 - Switches vote to Brawl -

Ofc, cuz Brawl was 1) Town 2) Looked very lynchable and 3) Was the biggest wagon, so ofc you swotch there, esp. after being told a Titus lynch is bad. -

Scum (-3)

8. 2020 - "More or less, but I don't mind getting on a wagon for him." a

Classic wagon distancing. "Oh yes, I do think xyz is scum but I don't want to be on the wagon cuz then attn is on me. If this was genuine unsureness in the wagon, it would be more evident. -

Very Scummy (-4)

9. 2504 - Finally taking the game seriously (Not) and quotes NKA as reason (Titus is leader and wasn't killed; therefore scum) -

Lousy reasoning first of all, but I guess newbie in some way. Nonetheless, that's not a good reason by itself to be trying to lynch a player not to mention you ought to have more detailed reasons by now than that. -

Scummy (-2)

10. 3374 - Literally asks "What do you want specifically" when asked for more -

You got to be trolling at this point. It's quite obvious more content and well-developed reads are wanted. And regardless, your question is 1) A prod dodge and 2) Serves absolutely no purpose. Actually try to be useful for once pls. -

Very Scummy (-4)

11. I already explained why 3437 and 3439 are bad.

Please lynch this useless, prob. lazy scum, slot.

[Ircher]

Prodge,....

Ugh... This game is so slow & boring at this point.....

[Ircher]

I hate WIFOM and Occam's Razor suggests you're scum lying.

[Ircher]

VOTE:

Ircher

[Ircher]

The SK should actually aim to shoot scum tonight actually.

[Ircher]

VOTE: Nosferatu

This is a strange vote; care to explain? (I don't see you mentioning Nos in a very quick glance at your ISO)

[Ircher]

VOTE: Nosferatu

This is a strange vote; care to explain? (I don't see you mentioning Nos in a very quick glance at your ISO)

Yeah, Liger is all over the place, and this Nos vote is a naked, totally unexplained vote by Liger.

[Ircher]

Suspecting me is scummy.

On the other hand, does stuff like this EVER come from scum?

Who has Titus scum meta for me to read?

mini 1782; I modded it

[Ircher]

I don't mind the naked vote, actually, from liger.

Why not?

[Ircher]

Zakk, you can go a little more specific with your request if you want.

Link me to scum games minus mafia Z bc you died super early

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=65928

Replaced in midway D1; lost D6

[Ircher]

Magna, I'm liking egg for town in this honestly, now that he is caught up.

Let me guess - it is because he Town reads you, right?

[Ircher]

Lets lynch Cy or Liger

[Ircher]

VOTE: Shotty

[Ircher]

Can someone sum up the case again.

I will be honest -- I haven't really payed too much attn to Nos this game (and I prob. should....)

[Ircher]

For me, it's simply laziness and the exterior appearence looks good when glancing through.

It's the same problem I have with Anen; it looks decent until you actually try to dissect it.

[Ircher]

@Magna, Great. You agree with me. Why do you think Shaz knew I was blocked?

Because he likely blocked you. I mean that’s the Occam’s Razor answer.

No.

Why not?

Two reasons, the first of which is that I don't feel like you'd claim like that. The second is for ~reasons~ that would be bad for town to be outed atm.

This is his original post. The first part makes sense but is made mostly irrelevant by the “reasons” second half.

Said reasons can’t be the following –

1. Role which investigates alignment directly (Cop / Hider / etc) – He would not be voting you today under that circumstance. And Pre-Lowell claim even if he did get an Town result he couldn’t clear you of being a Vig.

2. Non-JK protective role – has no impact on whether you sent a kill.

3. Being Vig himself and Town reading you – Lowell’s claim and his reaction to said claim shows this isn’t a viable possibility.

4. Him being scum and knowing you are Town – Serial Killer (or if I am set-up wrong, opposite Mafia team) would still be a possibility.

That leaves basically on a few things that could stand up as good reasons why he would suspect you didn’t kill someone.

1. He blocked you (Roleblocker / Jailkeeper).
2. He’s a Tracker and saw you go no-where.
3. He’s a Voyeur and saw you get targeted by a blocking power.

Egg, liger, and project matt

Votecount 3.7

Not voting (2) - Nosferatu, Shaziro

Exactly.

So why then does Shaz suggest there is a simpler reason?

[Ircher]

Shotty, read the thread.

[Ircher]

Gonna try to take a closer look at Nos...

Spoiler: NY 195 - Day 3 - Nos ISO

1. 1383 -

I have a bit of a problem with the way this is worded; Nos is questioning another player's read but at the same time, he's implying he knows more. He seems to know that Anen is scum and then trying to use that knowledge to try to frame those who don't think that Anen is scum in a bad light. -

Scum (-3)

2. 2239 - Stays off the Pers wagon because..... it will go through anyway? -

That's scum distancing themselves from a town lynch. Like seriously?! And the reason wasn't ("I'm not on the wagon cuz I'm not sure if I think it's scum" or "I'm not on the wagon to ensure that no one quickhammers"; it's "I'm not on the wagon cuz it will go through without me. (And I know it's town & I don't want to get caught by VCA later.)" -

Scum (-3)

3. 2667 - "Welcome to the scumlist" -

There was no follow-up to this. Testing the waters is what Nos is doing. -

Scum (-3)

Another thing to mention:

On an unrelated note, I was concerned with the way ETL and Titus fell into an easy early alliance. Good to see that breaking up.

What if they are both town, wouldn't that be bad?

If

.
I too found that post from Persivul disturbing.
But...

No. You don't need a buddy to scum hunt. You can vote the same as another player while still being cautious of them.

That's okay for now. Recently I learnt a lot about town-Persivul and this matches the mindset I know.

Only scum would do this. This is so fake and lazy.

Your vote is just as lazy.

You're shutting up because you want some other player not to copy you? What are you, FOUR?
This looks like an excuse to lurk tbh

Whut?
Calling Titus a lurker?

Spoiler:

POOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOP!

I am just going to be on the biggest of TBG Copper and Shotty. I like all three wagons. Normally that doesn't happen.

I dislike this a lot. Reads as Scum who wants to avoid spearheading one particular lynch to me. The townie version of this post is like "I'll support XXX, YYY, and ZZZ wagons. I think YYY wagon is the best right now though".

Are you hoping that a Titus-wagon will suddenly gain momentum?

I think she was showing a bit of anxiety at whatever he was saying because she may feel it links back to her and she sees him heading for a lynch. If they don't have daytalk, she can't coach him in the PT, she has to find a way to make him shut up in-game. She's not conspicuously "sticking her neck out" to save him, but based on her voting patterns thus far and her arguments against those voting for him, it definitely leads me to think she wants to prevent his lynch.

Also... Titus tends to protect her buddies as long as she can without giving herself away, not bus them. I've seen it time and time again, it's an innate urge for her, as much as she tries to subvert it, I still see glimpses of it, especially early in the game when no one is particularly looking.

IF there's no DayTalk.

Mod

, is there DayTalk for scum team(s)?

Nos also asked, and Anen flipped scum.

I am suspicious that both asked the mod about daytalk in-thread to feign a towntell.

So, after actually looking closer at Nos's posts, I can support the Nos wagon.

[Ircher]

Tell you what. I'll explain, in full, my ~reasons~ next day phase. But we've got to get there. How sure are we that Nos is scum? I'm honestly not seeing it so much anymore.

I see it, both in Anen-Nos interactions and Nos's general ISO.

The association case is stronger since a lot of Nos's posts are short and fluffy and sometimes irrelevent or archaic.

[Ircher]

attention mortals. the official Nahdia Approved Lynchpool has been reduced.

shotty
Ircher
Nosferatu

Do me a favor and take me off the list. Then I'd agree with you.

[Ircher]

Shotty thoughts @Nos?

[Ircher]

Shotty thoughts @Nos?

eh

Asking Nos his thoughts on you.

[Ircher]

Shotty thoughts @Nos?

eh

Asking Nos his thoughts on you.

Wow your sentence structuring and grammar needs work.

Can you pls stop with the insults; thanks.

This isn't school; not everything will be phrased 100% correctly cuz it's not worth the time and effort.

[Ircher]

Cuz it is.

[Ircher]

Speed or longevity have no relation to accuracy

this is a red herring. You were talking about transparent and scummy wagons. Not accuracy. Of course you are going to say your wagon isn't accurate.

People have been trying to (and have been) wagoning me since D1 where you started it all. Doesn't mean it's accurate, and each resurgence is probably a scum-driven resurgence.

Face it: It's either you or Nos who's getting lynched

[Ircher]

Speed or longevity have no relation to accuracy

this is a red herring. You were talking about transparent and scummy wagons. Not accuracy. Of course you are going to say your wagon isn't accurate.

People have been trying to (and have been) wagoning me since D1 where you started it all. Doesn't mean it's accurate, and each resurgence is probably a scum-driven resurgence.

Face it: It's either you or Nos who's getting lynched

Why would scum try so hard to get YOU lynched? Persistence is a town tell.

Scumtell

[Ircher]

Speed or longevity have no relation to accuracy

this is a red herring. You were talking about transparent and scummy wagons. Not accuracy. Of course you are going to say your wagon isn't accurate.

People have been trying to (and have been) wagoning me since D1 where you started it all. Doesn't mean it's accurate, and each resurgence is probably a scum-driven resurgence.

Face it: It's either you or Nos who's getting lynched

Why would scum try so hard to get YOU lynched? Persistence is a town tell.

Scumtell

To Clarify: Cuz they know it will eventually work.

[Ircher]

I'm an Even Night Role Blocker, now let's move on. I crumbed with italics in a quote pyramid day one, et me find it.
Titus needs to die.

Who were your targets? Why claim so early?

Why are you still insisted on this tunnel?

Why claim instead of explaining yourself and your reads?

What are your reads?

First of all I don't have targets, you are bad at math.
Why claim early? My wagon was useless and a distraction. I have no ability to use tonight and would have been mislynched today or tomorrow if I didn't claim, and by the time I claimed it would probably be against a deadline. This is the right time for me to claim.
Why lynch you? I think you are scum. I think you are lying and I think you are scum.
I've explained my reads I've beat the horse to death and then kept beating it! I'm not going to magically have different reads each page. I've given my reads throughout the game, I've given reasons and at this point I'm so board by this stagnant game that the only way I am willing to move forward is to lynch either Ircher, Titu, or Zakk. Been saying this from day one and I still am.

Also god I crumbed good I can't find it.
It's a quote and I italicized the letters ENRB. Brownie points if someone finds it before I do.

1) Who'd you target last night
2) Which day did you crumb on, cuz such a breadcrumb is impossible to find in your 250 posts if the letters were simply italicized.

[Ircher]

Ircher I already said day 1 and that's what makes it a good crumb.
UNVOTE: Titus

Fine Titus, but I swear to god if you are scum. Everything point to you being town at this point but I'm having literal nightmares that you are scum. Honestly it may just be you and I don't know how to read you, but everything I se from you just screams scum to me.

VOTE: Ircher

Your logic doesn't line up.

If you blocked me and 3 kills still went through, then that's a partial inno. Sure, someone else could've performed the nk, but you should take these partial inno's a lot more seriously rather than completely ignore them.

[Ircher]

VOTE: Ircher

Something just clicked for me. Ircher just proved he is scum to me. I can't explain why tonight but I can tomorrow. Lynch this. It's to do with my ~reasons~.

Shaz/Shotty team, and Shotty is Odd-Night RB who blocked Titus N1 and N3

[Ircher]

Case closed.

@Titus Who'd you try to target N1?

[Ircher]

VOTE: Ircher

Something just clicked for me. Ircher just proved he is scum to me. I can't explain why tonight but I can tomorrow. Lynch this. It's to do with my ~reasons~.

~Reasons~

You kidding me?

I can claim right now if you like, but it would be anti-town to do so.

[Ircher]

Not completely false.

A partial inno should make you a bit more weary of trying to lynch a person cuz the chances they are scum go down.

[Ircher]

VOTE: Ircher

Something just clicked for me. Ircher just proved he is scum to me. I can't explain why tonight but I can tomorrow. Lynch this. It's to do with my ~reasons~.

Shaz/Shotty team, and Shotty is Odd-Night RB who blocked Titus N1 and N3

Got psychic powers?

And yeah checked ETL.

Forgot it was D3 and N3 hasn't happened yet,

[Ircher]

th@Shaz -- You've been suspicious since D2 and I have no idea how your ~reasons~ factir in to your scumread of me.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, but Shotty's claim is prob. mafia as ETL was vanilla.

[Ircher]

It means Titus didn't target an Ascetic or Commuter and therefore was blocked

[Ircher]

Fair enough, my argument is off slightly there

[Ircher]

@Shotty
Find the breadcrumb, or I'm not believing the role claim

[Ircher]

I'm an Even Night Role Blocker, now let's move on. I crumbed with italics in a quote pyramid day one, et me find it.
Titus needs to die.

Who were your targets? Why claim so early?

Why are you still insisted on this tunnel?

Why claim instead of explaining yourself and your reads?

What are your reads?

First of all I don't have targets, you are bad at math.
Why claim early? My wagon was useless and a distraction. I have no ability to use tonight and would have been mislynched today or tomorrow if I didn't claim, and by the time I claimed it would probably be against a deadline. This is the right time for me to claim.
Why lynch you? I think you are scum. I think you are lying and I think you are scum.
I've explained my reads I've beat the horse to death and then kept beating it! I'm not going to magically have different reads each page. I've given my reads throughout the game, I've given reasons and at this point I'm so board by this stagnant game that the only way I am willing to move forward is to lynch either Ircher, Titu, or Zakk. Been saying this from day one and I still am.

Also god I crumbed good I can't find it.
It's a quote and I italicized the letters ENRB. Brownie points if someone finds it before I do.

@Zakk
The letters were italicized according to this post

[Ircher]

I got to page 11 and I got busy lol. I'll try to finish everything in a bit

I have read nothing and everything at the same time. Ircher seems most scum atm so I'll go with him for now

VOTE: Ircher

I dunno what this is. I think votes on him are lazier than these posts though.

agreed

.

.

there is the e and the n. the role block part is the italic periods or blocks around the eye rolling, or roll, emoji. I got creative

That has got to be the most obscure role breadcrumb that I've ever seen....

[Ircher]

VOTE: Zakk

Pedit:@Shotty -- Your breadcrumb is genuine, so I'll buy the claim for now.

[Ircher]

but why would he crumb it as scum in the first place? Much more likely that he's town that doesn't want the scum team to kill him.

Do you really think that makes any sense given all the gymnastics he’s done today? He couldn’t have painted a more noticeable target on his back if he tried if he is Town.

Ok, what do you think is the regular town response for what happened to Shaz? In a situation assuming that townie Tim is in fact an odd night roleblocker. Tim crumbed that you had knowledge that Titus was town for god knows what reason, and she immediately decided to hound him like a dog for it. How does Tim respond?

What???

[Ircher]

You weren't very convincing. And you're wrong.

[Ircher]

Tbqh, I have absolutely no clue what "scumtell" Shaz caught with his ~reasons~.

[Ircher]

Intent to hammer by July 1

[Ircher]

I already stated before I'm okay with lynching Nos.

Cy and Zakk I could lupynch too. Also Liger.

[Ircher]

I gave intent fyi Magna

[Ircher]

Probably....

[Ircher]

Meh, I still think Kop is scum, esp. with the way Lowell got off the wagon.
VOTE: Kop

L-1

...VOTE: Lowell

Srry Copper and Kop........ Lowell's prob. scum tho.

I pushed the Kop wagon and was the main proponent. I got off for awhile when Zakk wanted extra time, but got back on cuz I was fairly certain Kop was scum.

stuff

Way to misrepresent what prople said.
VOTE: Lowell - Shotty - Bus Lowell and we may give you some towncred

I also explained this vote too.

UNVOTE: Lowell

The unvote came post claim.

VOTE: Shaz

I've been feeling this midway D2 tbh, I just had more important concerns (Kop, Lowell)

Mainly having to do with Shaz's D2 inconsistency; again, context would show my vote was reasonable.

VOTE: Liger

I trust Magna 650% more.

Liger or Magna suggested lynching in the neighborhood today; I prefered to lynch Liger over Magna.

Let's lynch cy or Titus

Fine, lynch Cy.
VOTE: Cythefly

You said lynch Titus or Cy. I scumread Cy but townread Titus, so hence my vote.

VOTE:

Ircher

That's me trolling.

VOTE: Shotty

OMGUS in a way I believe.

VOTE: Zakk

Pedit:@Shotty -- Your breadcrumb is genuine, so I'll buy the claim for now.

This is post-Shotty claim which I believed cuz of the breadcrumb.

I see no real train of thought here other than

"oh this wagon is popular now? vote: thiswagon"

Spoiler:

Practically only 1 of them did I barely give any reasoning for at all; what you did was ISO me and ignore all the context surrounding the votes.

[Ircher]

I will hammer Nos as early as possible next morning.

[Ircher]

Actually, I'm hammering now.

VOTE: Nos

[Ircher]

Sorry folks! We can discuss the flip D4.

[Ircher]

Bah! Post

Goid luck town!

[Ircher]

Nicely played Zakk!

[Ircher]

Titus how did you miss that I was hinting that I was a vig? Like it was fake, but you latched -so- hard on it being jail keeper!

Didn't you deny that earlier? Oh well...

(Another loss Why, Shaz, why?????????????????????)

[Ircher]

(I'm just gonna say this is one of my better games play-wise.)

[Ircher]

The mafia PT was an interesring read, and I think they really worked well together as a team. Sure, there were some mistakes, but none were fatal and lots of discussion was put into decisions.

[Ircher]

Anyway, great game, and awesome job @Scum Team, especially Zakk.