Mafia 74: Minimally Flavoured - Game over!

[Antithesis]

Hello, just got a PM from Elias. Gonna do a read through today and tomorrow and give my opinions then. Thanks in advance!

-Anti

[Antithesis]

Well, spent the last two hours trying to read through the thread and dealing with the site hanging up on every page, this is the second time I have tried to post this message, it probably won't send, but I am past caring.

I don't know what Mills did or didn't do to garner suspicion, think i made it up to page seven before I lost my nerve for trying to read further, there was one stint where the site wouldn't come up for 15 minutes!

Unacceptable. I don't care if you lynch me or night kill me. At this point, I am past caring about anything. I just want the madness to stop! I am the town alligned cop. Now, do as thou will, frankly, I don't give a fuck.

[Antithesis]

Sorry if I gave too much away, but I was just so frustrated earlier! Even now, when I try to log in about ten minutes ago, the site would hang up on me (or whatever its called). I am sure its this site because I am having no trouble surfing the web or visiting any other place. Maybe the site is too active during the evening, I'll try catching up again later tonight if I am still awake. I didn't read enough to develop a strong suspect, and I really want to see what Mills did to put me in this predicament, but that might be early tomorrow before I can get that far.

I am kind of new at this, so I don't have the experience to draw on to state this for certain, but given my role, I think there may be other townie power roles (I certainly hope there is a protector/ doctor here!) and I think there probably more than 3 scum.

I have absolutely no grounds for these assumptions. One is more just blind hope lol, and the other is a gut feeling. Again, I am not a veteran, so take this with a grain of salt, but really its all I can add to the discussion atm, just a gut feeling.

Also I have played several other game shere where I claimed early and died as a reult. I recognize that some people that were in those games are here as well. Please understand that I learned my lesson, and I would not have claimed, except with the site acting as it is and the hole that had been dug for me, I did not feel like I could save the role for the town otherwise. And thats what I wanted to do, save the role. If the site keeps acting like this I will be ask to be replaced, as it really does take all the fun out of the game, hitting refresh over and over.

Anyway, lets see if this goes through now

And it didn't! Second try now

[Antithesis]

Wow, the site is much better to peruse at seven in the morning.

The Mills thing, his post about needing a town leader, the mention of conciliation. I think he meant these things in a broader context, and he reacted to Kitty the way he did because he perhaps felt words were being misconstrued (albeit not purposefully) to paint him as a suspect when that was the opposite of what he wanted. But that is just my take. I don't mean to put words into anyone's mouth or act like I am some kind of psychologist. Given his role, I do think when he wrote about the need for a town leader, he envisioned himself in that position, if not day 1, then later. But again, that is just my supposition.

As for suspects, aside from those who have been largely inactive, I cannot recall any substantive posts from CKD, however I may very well be misrembering (to steal a phrase from Toni Morrison) and I don't feel strongly enough about him to vote on it out of hand. If he would link to some posts in this thread that show me to be mistaken in my impression of him, I would appreciate it.

The DK/ Ecteocles thing interests me. For better or for worse, Ecteocles has made no attempt to repair the situation, in fact his inactivity has made things even worse. Knowing that I had to respond quickly, given the role I inherited, and the time constraints involved, at this point I have to assume that at the very best, Ecteocles is a vanilla townie, and thats if we give him the benefit of the doubt and accept that he isn't comfortable speaking "engrish".

Worst case scenario would be that DS was scum, and that Ecteocles inherited the role, saw the amount of onus that DS had bequeethed him, and is simply just not bothering to participate because he wants to cut his losses now, rather than try to fight the good fight and risk still being lynched over someone else's play later on.

Given the deadline I will wait one more day on Eteocles to respond, or for something else huge to transpire, otherwise I will be voting for him on the 19th. If he is ghosting (my term for going invisible and secretly following a thread) maybe the votes will spur him to respond, which in itself may look scummy. If he doesn't respond at all, with the deadline so close, I can't really conside him to be a useful townie, regardless of the chance that he might eb town alligned.

[Antithesis]

tried to post yesterday after the mills post, but kept getting the CPU overload page.

Gee thanks for the input mills. You're a real pal.

Unvote, Vote: CKD

for still not making any contribution even with the deadline fast approaching.

Antithesis, who's looking the most suspicious to you?

aww, now look OGML and Panzer's votes are soo cute. Ask yourself this, why are they focusing on me who is actually posting (even though it is quite little) over those who are not posting at all? Panzer's vote I can understand, even though I find it hypocritical. Panzer, I bet I wont have to dig ever far in your meta to disocver you posting very little in a game or even getting replaced for not posting at all (but do I really need to?). I think Panzer might be just trying to stir shit to see what develops. WHich could be townish. However, OGML, he is basically taking the lynch the lurker attitude to jump on a develoing bandwagon early. He is hoping I turn into the next bandwagon before the lynch comes down.

vote ohgodmylife

now that I have voted and provided some content, I wonder if he will take his vote off or backtrack and come up with another reason. Answer me this, ogml, why are you focusing on me after Panzer vote, versus people WHO ARE ACTUALLY LURKING THIS GAME? I think that your reason is bullshit...now that I have posted, what next?

I bet your at a loss, here I will give you another crap reason, "I am keeping my vote on CKD because only scum OMGUS vote"...cross your fingers and hope the town believes that one.

And here I see CKD posts as I was writing up my post. Here is what I was looking for, really. I just wanted to point this out because I said that I couldn't recall you making any substantive posts, that is probably the fault of my memory and the fact that I read about half the game last night in a rage over site issues, and the other half today, and some things may be blurred together,and others I may have very well overlooked.

Even now I think I should do a re-read, but the Eteocles thing, I honestly found DS's behavior somewhat odd, but was willing to chalk that up to style or whatever, but Eteocles, I just cannot recall him doing anything here except making mention of 'engrish' and then popping in once and a while to ask for more time. Between DS and Etecoles, I can't resolve the behavior of two players as being demonstrative of town allignment, or barring that, that Eteocles will be of any help to the town later on (assuming I am mistaken and he is, in fact, town alligned). Anyway I believe I have made that point clear.

[Antithesis]

Rishi, Dark Ermac, sangy, liamcool, Mills:

Do you think that it would be better to lynch today as opposed to not lynch?

Is there any specific player who you think would be a better lynch for today than no lynch at all?

Why are you not voting anyone?

Mills is gone.

As I stated, I wanted to give Eteocles one last chance, Why, I guess mainly to assuage my own guilt if he is, in fact, innocent. But I said I would vote today if he hadn't replied and I shall, right now.

vote Eteocles

[Antithesis]

I find it interesting taht someone (scum I think) would target CKD for a night kill, given the level of suspicion some people had placed on him day 1, seeing as how he turns up townie... ahh well. Will save my speculation for later.

For what it is worth I investigated BooKitty, and was given "no result" as an answer. Not sure if this means I was blocked by a protector or if it means the Mafia have a Role Blocker of their own.

Xyl turning up goon is interesting as well. Will need to do a re-read to look for possible connections.

[Antithesis]

I'm having flashbacks to Twofold Mafia.

Yikes.

Anyway, I meant to ask something. Antithesis, why did you investigate Bookitty?

Well, I wanted to pick someone who has been active early on, to either confirm them or expose them, as the case may be. CKD would have been the ovious choice to investigate, but I think maybe too obvious. Near the end of the phase he became more active and more willing to offer suggestions, it didn't strike me that he was trying to hide or shy away from all the onus that had been placed upon him. On the off chance that there is a mafia framer or something of that sort I didn't want to investigate an obvious person, but again, wanted to check out someone who has been active. Plus Bookitty had a hand in starting the drive against Mills (though some may argue that Mills played a large part in that as well). So, I figured she would be of some interest, if for no other reason, then to confirm her allignment to myself. It wasn't anything like a gut feeling, more like marking a name off of a checklist. Hopefully the voting last day phase and whatever awaits us this day phase will give me more to go on, as far as investigation targets go.

Since it appears I am being roleblocked I guess its a safe assumption to hope there isn't a framer at work. Maybe if we are lucky we can lynch the blocker today and I can do a better job.

[Antithesis]

20: Says that he chose DS over Xyl since DS was doing more wagoning. First up, what about Mills?

Something I noticed going back.. Xyl was very amiable to Mills in siding against DS. Think there might have been some exploitation of the DS/Mills feud there.

I think the aforementioned "false negative" approach was being used alright.. on Mills/DS. From Xyl's perspective, it would be easy to get one to vote against the other, and lynching either one or both would be a success for Xyl.

If egruntz FOSed Mills without any explanation, it would certainly fit within what I

think

Xyl was trying to accomplish day 1. While that doesn't mean Egruntz is necessarily scummy, it doesn't help his case at all in my eyes.

[Antithesis]

No result again.

I investigated Xyzzy, who had the misfortune of replacing Dragon princess, someone who only posted a couple of times, mostly in defense of Egruntz, before she was replaced.

What was Xyzzy's voting like on day one and two?

No offense Xyz, but I just get a scummy vibe from you.

[Antithesis]

Fos: the people who decided that it was better to just kill the scum quickly befor we could get any info out of them

.

I assume we don't have much scum left. How do ya'll suppose we're going to find them since we killed the one person who knew for sure before they could tell us anything useful? That was quite scummy.

What was he going to do, out his own scum buddies and become a pariah here?

Now, maybe if there really are two mafia groups, he could have told the town that before he died. Would we have believed him... I don't know, but FoSing people for lynching scum is silly, unless you happen to know there are multiple groups or something along those lines.

[Antithesis]

The "mod messing up" is a legitimate possibility. It isn't a "weaker" one.

Elias wrote

Also, the coloring is indeed accurate.

Can we get back to the game now?

[Antithesis]

That is pretty much how I read Xyzzy as well.

vote Xyzzy

[Antithesis]

Snaps: How would a scum know that there were two scum groups in the first place?

In most New York Games, there is 4 or 5 mafia. If scum got a PM at the beginning of the game saying he less than three scum buddies, he could conclude that there are probably two scum groups. On the other hand, a townie, in a closed game, has no clue as to number of scum or scum groups involved.

As a former Don in a game offsite that involved two mafias and an SK, I'd echo this thought.

It was as simple as looking at the total number of players and comparing it against the lack of numbers in my group and I knew as soon as I read my PM that there was another mafia/cult in the game.

I was just thinking about something from that game and I realized that Panzer is most likely town. That is if there are two scum groups. If there is just one then I am completely lost, hehe.

Any chance we can get an updated vote count?

[Antithesis]

Finally, @ Anyone voting ZZ: Explain to me why you think ZZ is scum.

The lack of input for 1.
He replaced Dragonprincess, who i saw giving a defense of Egruntz before she was replaced. For a bit of Meta, after she was replaced in this game, she was still active in others to a degree, so I wonder if she perhaps opted out after going to bat for Egruntz.

Then again when I re-read that I saw Dragon's defense was half hearted at best and there was a stetch of time when she was replaced that she wasn't posting elsewhere on the site. So I am going to discount that thinking now.

I would say he voted poorly day 1, but hell, so did I. His anger at people speed lynching an admitted mafia person struck me as extremely odd. Almost like he was mad that he didn't have time to have his vote be seen and counted too!

But that was me reading him with the added Dragonprincess onus.

While I don't think he's a proven townie, I am leaning more and more into distrusting Snaps. If my hunch is right, Panzer can be trusted. ANd Snaps jumping from ZZ to Panzer could be a desperate attempt to distract people or stir the pot.

unvote Xyzzy

vote OGML

[Antithesis]

The game that I played with two scum groups (Twofold Mafia), the scum were fairly active in scumhunting and were desperately trying to get the other group.

You seem to keep pointing the finger at me based on anecdotal experience from other games.

I find this interesting because Rishi starts with an anecdote about another game (as a justification for something he argued earlier). Then impugns Skruff for using anecdotes in his arguments.

The problem is that you are assuming that all scum are going to play the same way.

Didn't you make the same assumption with your anecdote?

If scum always played the same, then it'd be pretty darn easy to catch them.

If you knew this, then why did the topic ever come up?

But, you are now saying that the lurkers aren't scummy and the people who are scumhunting aren't scummy. Who's left? Not everyone is town.

I think he's actually saying that you are trying to be just active

enough

to seem like you aren't lurking without adding anything to the discussion in terms of scumhunting.

[Antithesis]

For the record, I would have voted on Egruntz after he claimed (actually I was about to vote on him regardless) but he claimed and was lynched before I logged back on to the site again.

Personally, I don't thnk scum have any more reason than townies to lynch other scum. It just came down to who showed up online first. (In that regard, scum may be faster if they use Instant messengers or get notified via email if they have a PM).

[Antithesis]

Well, Zero reply from elias regarding my invfestigation. Don't even know if I was blocked or not.

Looks like its time for a re-read

[Antithesis]

Well notification that my investigation of Rishi gets "no response".

Can anyone figure out why Skruffs and Has were killed?

I don't recall either being an object of suspicion, at least not to any great degree.

I don't remember either being involved enough to justify the belief that their deaths might have been undertaken to set something or someone up.

I look at them and I think to myself that, if there really are two groups, both have agreed to kill the least suspicious, and therefore, those whom are most likely to be town.

And then I recall that this precise thing was discussed the previous phase.

I can't help but feel that it wasn't entirely a coincidence.

[Antithesis]

I look at them and I think to myself that, if there really are two groups, both have agreed to kill the least suspicious, and therefore, those whom are most likely to be town.

And then I recall that this precise thing was discussed the previous phase.

I can't help but feel that it wasn't entirely a coincidence.

So are you suggesting that the two scum groups are able to communicate at night or do you think that they passed messages to each other in the thread?

This is really implausible.

Not a literal agreement, rather, an unspoken understanding.

I look at the last two victims and I go, damn... now nearly everyone tahts left seems suspicious for some reason or another.

And that, being entirely an accident, is whats implausible here.

[Antithesis]

Vollk.. if you really were leading the town so to speak, why didn't you wind up dead last night?

[Antithesis]

Unfortunately real life prevents me from playing this game anymore.

I officially request to be replaced.

Sorry.