Cultafia: Game over

[NabakovNabakov]

Sup everybody

First, a point of order:

You are a Vigilante. You may attempt to kill one other player at night, but

you may not attempt to kill two nights consecutively.

You win when any threats to the town are eliminated, or if you join a cult before its takeover is inevitable.

Bold is going to make the game substantially more difficult for town (assuming we have a vig in the first place) and makes it less likely that last night's kill was a vig kill (unless our vig is unusually ballsy/stupid)

At first, I was tempted by the info offered by the Mno-Blaze dichotomy. One of them must be scum, so lets lynch 'em both, right? But then you realize that "Cultafia has no scum" is more than just a nitpick. If Blaze killed DGB, he's probably the SK. Yosarian makes a good point about the usefullness of an SK to the town, and while I don't think it would necessarily be detrimental to lynch the SK at this point, our energy would be better spent in concentrated pursuit of the cult leader(s). If Blaze didn't kill DGB, Mno is likely a recruit. I thought of this as a brilliant gambit before armlx shattered it with the idea that Cult v. Cult makes sacrifice non-ideal, but there's no guarantee that Mnowax thought of that before he committed himself to the play. I can't honestly conceive of any other network of lies that would yield results better than the two above situations.

If we go the route of lynching Mnowax and/or Blazerunner, we won't receive the standard reward (that an anti-town faction will be permenantly out a member). We will either make an insignificant dent in an elastic cult or kill a potentially useful neutral faction. There are no scum in Cultafia.

That's what makes me wary of Vikingfan's 158. He's very clearly thinking in the standard-mafia mindset. Whether this is on purpose, I don't know, but he'd have to be pretty oblivious to not pick up on the fact that there are no scum in Cultafia before making it central to his posting.

FOS: Vickingfan

[NabakovNabakov]

NN, two things. First, though there are no mafia in Cultafia, there are bad guys (i.e. scum). I don't see how using the phrase scum is bad when it's used to refer to the generic baddie.

Second, are you actively disagreeing that it is probable that one of mnowax or blaze is a baddie? From my viewpoint, it's extremely probable- the only question that I see being actively debated is whether to do it today or to do it day 3 or 4.

One final point: everyone says we should be spending time looking for the cult leaders. Personally, I'm wondering how the cult leader(s) would be playing this (presuming that neither mnowax nor blaze is one). would they be more likely to hold back and blend in the crowd, or go heavily after the group? I'm thinking blending in, for the moment...the cult leader wants to avoid suspicion at all costs, especially day 1.

Ah, but discussing specific situations in terms of "generic baddies" sucks out important nuances. The differences between mafia, cult, and SK are important, and when we have a semi-open setup and know what groups we're dealing with, we should use that knowledge to our advantage.

Odd behavior on both sides makes me suspect that something's up with one or both of the featured players, but what's the point of gambling when the payoff is in wooden nickels?

The last point is sound. Lurker Census!

-mypenguinkat has been essentially MIA, only showing up to drop a vote on Mno

-Greggo and springlullaby both have fewer than 5 posts

-CKD has been posting less than I would meta him at

[NabakovNabakov]

unvote

More please. Don't think you can get by in this game without explaining yourself.

[NabakovNabakov]

ionce again i can not say what tipped me off today. If you believe that DGB is a SK that needs to stay alive, then i will tell every one who i am, and why are the reasons why i konw what i know and surmised.

Baby steps please. Why would we have to jump from maddeningly vague soft-claim to full claim? What does that jump even have to do with if we beleive Blaze is an SK or not? Why can't you just tell us what tipped you off and let us draw our own conclusions?

[NabakovNabakov]

This was directly above Mno's softclaim.

Speaking about hammer, I have a question to mod: How long will twilight last, from the hammer to the death, when the person lynched cant speak anymore? (not exactly, just an estimation). I need to know this in case I get hammered, and for the reason above, and even regardless of people's alignment (the people not posting might all agree Im scum and vote me in quick succession)

I forgot to comment on this in my replacement post, and I'm surprised nobody else really picked up on it (do our eyes go fuzzy once someone addresses something to the mod or something?) Asking about being able to talk in twilight would only make sense if Blazerunner had something to talk

about

. If he wasn't asking just to satisfy curiousity, this can mean one of two things:

1) He had information he would want to impart
2) He had instructions he would want to give

Despite how convincing the SK hypothesis may be, neither 1 nor 2 would support it. Even if an indpendently alligned SK had information (gained through a failed kill perhaps) it would do him no good to inform the town after he's already been lynched, and it goes without saying that he would have no one to instruct.

But perhaps I'm making too much of this.

@Blazerunner: Care to explain?

@Mnowax: Is this what prompted your softclaim?

[NabakovNabakov]

Huh, didn't think about that. Blaze did say it was in case

he

got hammered, but that could have been misdirection.

I'd still like to hear from both Blaze and Mno on the subject.

[NabakovNabakov]

But I hoped that people who got to this conclusion kept this ounder the radar

Sorry dude, but the town doesn't deal in secrecy. Why didn't you just send a PM to the mod? Did you want people to pick up on this?

And honestly, I don't see why this is something you would risk your life for. What have we learned? If TSS had a night action, it didn't go through. The only thing that can really prove is that TSS isn't the SK. Anything else is just wild speculation.

Some thinking points

What kind of a cult leader would recruit Blazerunner N0. No offense to him, but there were certainly some far more eligible candidates on the player list that could have been culted instead. This isn't even a situation where WIFOM would apply because it would all happen silently and without precedent. Possibilities:
-Cult leader is inexperienced himself.
-Cult leader is lazy and/or ignorant of strategy.
-Cult leader was afraid that prime targets would be watched or double targeted.

Is Blazerunner playing it straight with us? I can't honestly see why any pro-town role with an iota of sense would go and do something so silly, but just because Blaze is a recruit doesn't mean he speaks the truth. The possibility for a gambit (either brilliant or completely misinformed, there is no middle-ground) exists. Alternately, this could be a last ditch effort by an SK to escape trouble, though it doesn't seem as if Blaze is anywhere close to the last dtich considering the prevailing attitude on keeping SK's alive and the fact that being a suspected SK seems much better for one's health than being a claimed recruit.

The best course of action at this point is probably to go back over Blaze's posts and search for potential leaders. If Blaze was sloppy enough to make this claim, there's probably evidence of his recruiter somewhere in the thread.

[NabakovNabakov]

I would say lynch someone else and keep Blaze in reserve. We can be pretty sure from this point that he's a recruit, but it's already been said that lynching recruits is not the way to win this game. His power to influence has been neutralized, and all he has after that is his vote, and even using that would be a double-edged sword considering that everybody

knows

it's the vote of a cultist.

I wouldn't even suggest that a vig target him considering that vigs are perhaps our best probes on cult leaders and SK's. A suspected leader is a more viable target than a confirmed recruit.

[NabakovNabakov]

There is no such thing as a Cult Roleblocker

You have been recruited by the [cultname] Cult, led by [name] and also composed of [names]. You may communicate with the rest of the cult at night.

You lose all other abilities you previously had

, except that if you were a Mason, you can still talk to your fellow Masons at night.

You win when your cult cannot be eradicated, or such a situation is inevitable.

[NabakovNabakov]

Occult: I'm not sure I understand your post. Are you saying he's backing off the claim? He's not, he's just realizing it was a stupid move. Your vote reads more like OMGUS than anything else.

Mnowax: I'm not sure I understand your post. Elaborate please.

[NabakovNabakov]

I think it's pretty clear to most people that Blaze is a recruit, the question is just whether or not he's worth lynching. That's what Vollkan was bringing up, but you seemed to think it was enough to prove he was a recruit in order to justify his lynch. It goes beyond that.

[NabakovNabakov]

A recruiter and a recruit wouldn't have a chance to discuss, but they would both know each other. The Recruit PM has a spot for the name of the leader.

[NabakovNabakov]

I would be interested in pressuring lurkers or getting them replaced. Stark is especially frustrating considering that he's managed to make it 10 pages and 2+ prods without a post.

Mod:

When you say "picked up his prod" does that just mean he opened it? Did he reply? Is he having technical difficulties?

Far too many players have been limping through this game, and that particuarly unacceptable considering the nature of the baddies.

[NabakovNabakov]

I think we just identified Vollkan's Rule 12.

From what I can tell, Occult's perspective is valid. What Blaze said he did N0 (block TSS) and what Mno said he did N0 (kill DGB) are obviously mutually exclusive, though there is a possibility that Mnowax was making an honest mistake by drawing a conlcusion farther than he should. On top of the fact that Blaze claimed recruit, something fishy is going on here.

@Mnowax: Do you still believe that Blaze killed DGB? If not, what changed your mind?

[NabakovNabakov]

So Mno's conclusion (that Blaze killed DGB) was drawn from pretty much nothing. Whoop-de-doo. He's either a stupid recruit or a stupid leader. Either way, he's getting vigged tonight and should be taken off the table for a lynch. If he dies, we'll know who he is, and if he doesn't, we know who to lynch.

[NabakovNabakov]

@Vollkan: I was thinking something along the lines of "don't question my rules" seeing as how your discussion with Yos appears to be exactly what the list is attempting to avoid.

Lurkers:
-Malthusis hasn't posted here in a week. Hasn't posted on the board since Thursday
-mypenguinkat has four posts of little or no content. This is her only game
-Springlullaby has been semi-regular but pretty sparse on content
-CKD has now made four consecutive posts promising to give this game attention. Having played with him before, I find this level of inactivity extremely suspicious
(Gorrad has been omitted due to the fact that he is being replaced)

Both Malthusis and mypengiunkat strike me as newbies, so I'm not sure what good pressuring them would do. Springlullaby looks pretty scummy. When her posts aren't bobblehead, they're going after the easy meat. It's CKD that I worry about seeing as he's been systematically witholding his voice from the record (and there have been plenty of things to comment on)

Unvote; Vote: Curiouskarmadog; FOS: Springlullaby

[NabakovNabakov]

also Nab, any reason you didnt mention I have made the same "posts promising to give this game attention" for other games? Clearly you have meta-ed and have seen these posts, find it interesting you didnt bring that to light with the vote....why is that? I am getting to the games as I can....

I didn't run a current sweep on you, just going by what I know from a few games. If you're strapped for time across the board then I can understand.

It's just disconcerting that you have yet to comment on either Blaze's claim or Mno's claim (or anything surrounding them), but you jumped on my vote a few hours after it was posted.

[NabakovNabakov]

Unvote; Vote: Springlullaby

It seems to me that Skruffs is being hypersuspicious right now. That's a good thing -- it keeps us honest, but I don't like SL's blind agreement. Especially because it was fairly clear that Skruffs had yet to read any significant portion of the game (his posts only referenced the first couple of pages, and his post on Blaze failed to acknowledge his claim). Looks like classic "cause mayhem and confusion" scumtactics.

I see the case on Occult and think some of it is good, but I really think we should pressure SL before moving forward.

[NabakovNabakov]

THERE IS A SK! yes i am *THE VIG* i am the only vig. I have no reason to lie about this. I made an assumption regarding someone else's post. What else is new around here? Granted i was Totally wrong, but my roles is out, and we have found a Former Rb'er and a now a cult recruitist.

How can you be certain that there aren't any other vigs?

[NabakovNabakov]

Blown away by Blazeriders big confession post. What is odd to me is why blaze didn't out his cult leader. Is this forbidden?

Why would he do that? Claimed or not, he's still cult.

[NabakovNabakov]

I did what I did to give town info and to try to save my ass in a crazy way.

This is what I don't get and why I still have vestiges of doubt about the claim. You are a cult recruit, you win with the cult, you

don't want

to help the town, yet you seem to have very confused motivations in this regard.

[NabakovNabakov]

Seems like Blaze's cult leader. His first 11 posts are very content light. And he kindly sprinkled in some defense for Blaze. That's wonderful leader action don't you think? Stay on the low while trying to make sure your new recruit doesn't get lynched to quickly. However after, Blaze claims this guy is all for Blaze's death. EVEN with all of the disusion on how we should focus our efforts on killing the leader. He continues to insinuate that there is a possibility of Blaze being the leader trying to pull of a gambit that the recruit stays alive longer than the leader. On the otherhand, as a leader, occult would want to get rid of Blaze so that he can't be associated with the leader.

Ok, so the working hypothesis is that Occult is bussing to avoid association and prevent Blaze from doing anything else stupid.

Why then would he continue even after he had been called on this? He continues to posit his theory even after pulling 3 votes as a result. If the goal is to avoid association, isn't this incredibly counter-productive?

Why would he continue even after Mno had made it clear he was going to vig Blaze? Wouldn't that effectively eliminate the problem

and

tie up a vig kill. Whereas his plan now would likely have Blaze lynched and himself vigged/investigated as backlash.

[NabakovNabakov]

Why would he continue even after Mno had made it clear he was going to vig Blaze? Wouldn't that effectively eliminate the problem

and

tie up a vig kill. Whereas his plan now would likely have Blaze lynched and himself vigged/investigated as backlash.

Well, if Blaze's going to get vigged anyway, he'd probably rather lynch him in order to distance, right?

Well if Occult really is Blaze's leader, this situation has festered for so long that there's no course of action he could take to effectively distance. The best use for Blaze at that point would pretty much be as a meatsheild. (That's assuming Occult-leader would be able to escape today's lynch)

[NabakovNabakov]

Why is the Occult wagon still bigger than the SL wagon?

[NabakovNabakov]

The one thing I will say that when it comes to deflection wagons, Yosarian is usually not the first that springs to mind, but I've seen enough bizzare choices in this game that this is pretty mild by comparison.

[NabakovNabakov]

Note Yos' use of "pointless", WIFOM isn't scummy in itself, but it

is

craplogic. WIFOM can only be used to negate an argument.

So yes, the kind of "cult leader tells" we're looking for are WIFOM, but the idea is that they would be unaviodable or unintentional depending on how well a person plays. They invoke the hard side of WIFOM (this is what a person would do to win), while a WIFOM defense generally invokes the soft side (this is what a person would do if they wanted to trick us).

[NabakovNabakov]

Skruffs... you really should figure out who claimed what. You're just making yourself look silly, and it would make your analysis a whole lot easier by cutting out the speculation.

[NabakovNabakov]

Still here. I still think SL is the way to go, but I would like to hear what Skruffs has to say once he gets up to speed.

[NabakovNabakov]

SL: By the time I had voted you for lurking among other things, you had posted fewer sentences than days you had been in this game (give or take a few fragments), and most of them were even less helpful than the above statistic would seem to indicate. You said nothing of any significance until Blaze's claim, whereupon you supported his lynch for vague and opportunistic reasons. Since then, the only thing that has really drawn content from you have been attacks, which is the classic sign of a lurker. Also, the discussions you have built up around the relative merits of claims, the validity of WIFOM, and the scumminess of OMGUS belong in MD; not here and are only serving as straw dogs.

@Yos: Your vote is still on Occult.

[NabakovNabakov]

AHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA!!!!

Yosarian is either SK or Cult leader. I tried to vig Yos last night. i didn't go after Blaze.

Plus , i am still alive which is wierd, but ill take it!

Blaze seemed pretty intent on blocking you, and I'm guessing that's what happened.

If Mnowax isn't lying about being vig and having targeted Yos (and that's still a distinct possibility), it looks like we have at least three shooting roles.

[NabakovNabakov]

Are you suggesting that there is a role in a semi open game that the Mod wouldnt tell us about?

which is more likely? Mno is lying or in a semi open game the Mod threw in another role.

I think that Mno offed Blaze, was recruited, and is now lying.

Mno, please explain why there were two kill last night.

Vig and SK = "Shooting Roles" It's not entirely impossible that we don't three of these roles in some combination or another.

Did miss the part where I said there was a "distinct possibility" that Mno was lying?

Personally, it makes a fair amount of sense to me that Blaze would block Mno no matter what and (in addition) draw a kill from a shooting role other than Mno considering that he was bascially a claimed recruit.

What stinks here is that Mno, by his own reporting, failed to target Blaze like he said he would (indicating that he somehow felt the kill would be unsuccessful or ill-advised), but completely failed to consider the possibility that he could have been blocked last-night in accusing Yos. Like all the claiming we've undergone so far, it just doesn't add up. Now there's a possibility that he targeted Mno, got recruited, and is outright lying about Yos, but why exactly is it scummy to not jump immediately to that conclusion?

[NabakovNabakov]

, but why exactly is it scummy to not jump immediately to that conclusion?

because I wanted him to answer not you...

To be honest, I didn't even read your question to Mno before I posted. It's not like this is rocket science.

[NabakovNabakov]

Hjallti's idea about anti-cult vig mechanics makes a helluvalotta sense. But second guessing [person/group/entity] = WIFOM,

especially

when it comes to night actions. That isn't even considering the various opinions of recruiters on who is or is not an experienced, skilled, or trusted player.

@Hjallti: Any particular reason you put the names you did on that list, and not (for example) Yos or Skruffs?

[NabakovNabakov]

uhhh i took my vote off of yos.

no i wont ask for a replacement. i have made my point.

Not really... you forgot to unvote.

Stupidity has the capability to mitigate anything, but the thought processes that Mno is claiming go beyond anything I've ever seen (and I've seen my fair share of innane and incompetent players), so I suspect there's a good chance that there's a recruting behind all this. The question then is, is it worth it to lynch him?

[NabakovNabakov]

Huh, I think the first part of Skruff's diatribe indicates some major reaching. Is is really significant that somebody with all of

[NabakovNabakov]

Sorry, mispost.

Huh, I think the first part of Skruff's diatribe indicates some major reaching. Is is really significant that somebody with all of 4 posts in the thread didn't talk to Armlx? Seems like he got drawn in on what turns out to be a bum tell and is reaching for reasons not to let the point drop. IMO, both town and scum are looking for consistency, so it's not a tell on Skruffs, but I really don't see a case based on a lack of connection between two living players and a typo.

[NabakovNabakov]

Sorry guys, limited time for scum + three games with set deadlines + eye-crossing argument = neglect

I still feel Skruffs has been lashing out in the interest of defending his honor (I kinda always get that feeling whenever a player ties off a debacle with "Well, I was just doing that for reactions" (but that's just because I'm not a reaction player)). His case on Hajallti was DOA so he shifted the focus to a theory point that seemed credible, no shame there.

Vollkan seemed to defend armlx far past the point that I would see as conventional. I would have expected him to take at least one step back about halfway down Page 22 and realize that he was defending armlx (and attacking Skruffs) over practically nothing.

[NabakovNabakov]

Also:
Remind me if things start to lull again to look at how players reacted to Blaze claiming recruit. Any cult leaders would have thought that Blaze was recruited by the 'other cult' - and if someone soon after introuced the idea of two cults that may be an accidental bread crumb.

There was a pretty solid consensus (at least in my mind) on there likely being two cults before Blaze even claimed.

Honor isn't entirely immaterial. A townie who doesn't actively defend his credibility when he can won't have it when it counts.

[NabakovNabakov]

@Skruffs: I was just feeling zen. Take it as you will.

I didn't really see it as defense of armlx, so much as criticising the position that skruffs was putting forward. Obviously, the armlx thing was part and parcel of that, and became a major issue.

You put entire paragraphs in armlx's mouth at times when he was fairly active. It's almost as if he intentionally withdrew and submitted to being your puppet. Why did you assume you had handle enough on armlx's posts that they could (or should) be used to refute Skruffs? Why did you never ask for his input?

@armlx: You made a few posts during the storm, but they were fairly insubstantial, why? They were your words on the line, why didn't

you

justify them (or at least note how much speaking vollkan was doing for you)?

[NabakovNabakov]

90% sure hjallti (well, whoever replaced him) is town, a lot based on how his predecessor attacked mno for a soft claim, and partly because I'm 90% sure I know what his role is based on his and penguins posts.

What's this about his predecessor? Penguinkat made 4 posts in the entire game and was clearly in over her head. When she FOSed Mno for the soft claim, it was over a page after said claim had been identified. Completely irrelevant content.

I'd very much like to hear what about kat's four posts helped you to determine a role. Also, I'd like to hear why you're holding aioqwe responsible for the posts of another predecessor who was also clearly a newbie. Also, what makes you think CKD's play has been solid? It's struck me as quite spotty.

Armlx is not scum in this game.

There are no scum in Cultafia.

[NabakovNabakov]

This might seem like a semantic nitpick, but really, it's not, since I'd say "scum tells" apply pretty well to any anti-town role, especally an anti-town faction like a cult.

Fine, but where were you when I made 174?

And I still think it is something important that people should keep in mind. Even if Beep! Beep! (for whatever reason) was absolutely postivie armlx was not cult

today

there's no guarantee for tomorrow.

[NabakovNabakov]

Why aren't more people posting?

That's a good question. I'd like SL2.0 and Quinton in particular to contribue following (what I would assume to be) a concentrated read of the game. Particurally, changes in behavior in any players from one day to the other that might indicate recruitment.

[NabakovNabakov]

How does this:

Do I think Skruffs is scummy on the basis of our argument? Yes.

Have anything to do with this?

1) You can't see any point to the argument

Regardless of the reality or validity of your suspicions regarding Skruffs, the argument continues to get us nowhere. Your case against him is convoluted, relying on several twists of hearsay buried in a massive post-fest. I would venture that only about half the players in this game have the stamina to figure out exaclty what you're driving at, but I truly doubt that a single one would really go along with it. You're pushing a case just as bum as the one Skruffs started this with. There's no wagon, no lynch in its future, just another layer on the post-labryinth.

[NabakovNabakov]

The first quote has everything to do with the second because there was a point to the argument. You've played with me before, NN; you know that I argue a lot in this game. And, for what it's worth, the argument has shown up pretty clearly that Skruffs is being completely recalcitrant and is trying damned hard to defend the undefendable. The argument itself is a source of information for me on skruffs and, I well imagine, for the rest of you on me.

I'm not too sure of what your point is when you say that the case is not going anywhere. I agree that, thus far, the case is far lynch-worthy. I don't see why that fact means that I should desist from engaging in dialogue with Skruffs on this point.

Sophistry, while fun, becomes less and less useful as the deadline counts down. I look forward to your reworked rankings.

[NabakovNabakov]

Seems like I have heard this in this game already about 400 times.

Skruffs, word count does not = relevance. Post count does not = contribution.

High word count, especially when starting EVERY post off with the same unimportant argument just increases the odds that no one is going to put forth the effort into reading what you have to say. Take your posts out of this game, and this game is 8 pages shorter without significant loss of relevant content.

I find myself wanting to vote you out just so this game will be a much smoother read and easier for everyone to follow.

Did you actually read Skruffs' post?

Do you think Skruffs is scum?

Do you think his lengthy/abundant posts are formulated to confuse and stall the town?

What do you think about the parts armlx and Vollkan have played in this?

[NabakovNabakov]

NabNab:
What leads you to think I am the kind of player who makes long winded and confusing posts in an attempt to confuse and stall the town, wether I Am town or as scum? You should remember from Big Love mafia (where I Was scum) that I play scum very different as town. Usually as mafia I :teach: town how to catch me, and my scum buddies. I quasi bus my teammates a lot, without actually voting them.

I don't. I wanted to see if SlySly did. Unfortunately, I got fewer straight answers out of him than Ollie North.

@SlySly:

Why are you dodging my questions?

What prevents you from elaborating on the possibilities of various situations rather than stating them?

Why do I need to tell you what to say about armlx and Vollkan? They've said things, you've thought about the things they've said. Let's hear it.

Vote: SlySly

Will I get real answers now?

[NabakovNabakov]

I am not dodging your questions. I answered your direct questions directly. I asked for specifics about your vague question.

"It is possible" is

not

a direct answer. Not to go grammar Nazi, but your answers actually indicate the that it is possible you think those things, not that those things are possible, but even if the questions were phrased "Is Skruffs scum?" it would still be a vague and non-committal answer.

Why

are those things possible? The questions were asking what you thought; let's hear it. You've claimed to have read the game, so I really don't see what your excuse is.

I am not going to do a book report for you over the play of armlx and Vollkan thus far in the game.

Why not? What's wrong with information, with sharing your opinion?

Taking my posts into consideration, it is obvious that their play was not the first thing that jumped out at me that I felt the need to address.

Taking your posts into consideration, it's obvious that their play is something you need to address. You've spent a couple of posts berating Skruffs but have said nothing about the other players in the discussion. Why?

That doesn't mean I am opinionless about them, but If you want to know my thoughts about something specific about their play, feel free to ask. I will do my best to give you the best possible answer.

Your best possible answer will not be prompted. Do not misunderstand me, this is an interrogation, and what topics you choose to focus on is about as important as what you say about them. Do you have to analyze their play from every possible perspective? Of course not, choose one or two. I'm interested in what those will be.

But since you are here, do you feel any remorse for starting the wagon on SL-I, a confirmed townie?

Not in the slightest. She was lurking, and I called her on it. She re-entered with some pretty questionable plays, and the town called her on it. Townies are not infallible, and in this case, both SL and I got it wrong.

Nice try changing the subject though.

[NabakovNabakov]

Seriously, is nobody going to give the SlySly wagon some love? He's refused to talk about anybody other than Skruffs or Mno, despite the numerous (if combative) opportunities I've given him. His cases on those two players are crude and opportunistic.

I guess there's a newbie factor involved, but his post count is not insubstantial. I think this is at least something that deserves some attention (and hasn't this game been suffering from a dearth of wagons anyway?)

[NabakovNabakov]

I have just NOT seen good reason to comment on the others yet.

I'll call bullshit on this (again), but only halfheartedly. You've obviously had the time to sit Skruffs down and treat him like a child by combing through half his posts in this game, you've had the time (and would have been better served considering your post amounted more to game advice than content) to examine other players.

However, your fixation on Skruffs seems genuine/benign enough, so I'll

unvote

but it seems everybody in this game has developed a Vollkan Complex. We've become a damn MD thread, and that's fine in some situations, but not with a deadline.

[NabakovNabakov]

I think if we're going to assign insanity to Mno, it has to be across the board. If he was insane enough to completely dismiss the possibility of being blocked, he would be insane enough to target Yos for no good reason/aggressively push his lynch. Don't try to make an argument by ascribing sense to only one or two specific parts of Mno's play. Insanity is a null tell.

[NabakovNabakov]

Vote: CuriousKarmaDog

Yeah, I know, I've been gone for a while. I've had a serious mental block on this game.

CKD has been pretty lurkerish, with lots of one-liners and simple pokes. Not much interest in scumhunting, contributed zero content to the Springlullaby wagon but plenty of pushing. Has fallen into innanity at deadline.

Isolate his posts, there's not a whole lot there that isn't agreeing or asking cutting questions. Not the perfect target, but better than setup prospecting with Mno, metabacklash with Skruffs, or metametabacklash with Vollkan.

[NabakovNabakov]

Huh, odd that CKD claimed steadfast when he wasn't. Perhaps he was trying to preclude his own recruitment/lead the cults to an unrecruitable target in the event that he was not lynched/revealed vaguely.

@aio:Why didn't you post your reasons for why CKD's claim was bad yesterday?

armlx's blind acceptance of aio's statement as a counter-claim is bizzare, but I don't really see what scum motivation he could have had for making such an odd assertion with little benefit to be had (CKD was likely going to be lynched regardless of where armlx's vote was and why).

I'm willing to believe that Skruffs voted initially without seeing the claim, but the posts he made (827-9) afterwards seem far sketchier. I'm finding it hard to swallow that Skruffs, after finding the claim, just shrugged his shoulders and said "well, he's been scummy anyway" without thinking at all about the implications of the new information.

[NabakovNabakov]

Aioque- Did you seriously just say you were a recruit?

This is in the same vein as counter claims and such. I would't discreetly do such thing. Anyways, no I'm not claiming. I'm simply pointing out that it is flawed logic to vote for me if you see a sudden change in my behavior. Rather you should look for a recruiter. That said, I need to review the thread a bit more before I can bring to the table any ideas as to who a recruiter might be.

You are asking Mno an interesting question and I want to see it answered. Mno's behavior throughout the entire game seems fishy. I'm trying to comprehend it now.

But that doesn't mean softclaiming recruit is going to get you off at this point. Landing a recruiter would be the ideal strategy, but that hasn't worked out so well so far. As this game moves forward, bulk is going to become more important than recruiting power, and it's already moved forward 3 nights without a successful lynch.

Tell us who your leader is and maybe we won't lynch you.

Also, the general sentiment has been that recruits are not good lynch targets. Wouldn't that be an excellent out for a recruiter backed into a corner.

Show us how your behavior hasn't been consistently scummy and maybe we won't lynch you.

[NabakovNabakov]

armlx's blind acceptance of aio's statement as a counter-claim is bizzare, but I don't really see what scum motivation he could have had for making such an odd assertion with little benefit to be had (CKD was likely going to be lynched regardless of where armlx's vote was and why).

But the assertion does provide a good out. It's one thing for scum to find a good reason to vote somebody; it's much better for scum if they can find a way to blame their vote on somebody else (ie. "I thought aio was counter-claiming. Bad aio for being so misleading!").

I understand that it gave him a sneaky out (that's why it's scummy), but I don't understand why he would have to get in in the first place. Correct my timeline if it's off, but I believe a CKD lynch was pretty much assured by that point.

Debating whether aio's backpedal is genuine, accidental, or incredibly suspicious. I'll report back later.

[NabakovNabakov]

Um guys, I think there's something getting lost here.

When aio posted something along the lines of "well, if it looked like I was a recruit, it would be silly to lynch me." I decided to amp that up and accused him of softclaiming. In (serious) posts since then, he has stridently denied this.

So first we have to decide if aio actually is cult who got spooked by insta-pressure or townie who got caught theorizing. One thing is certain, he's not standing up there and saying "I'm a recruit, don't lynch me" (which is what some people are basically boiling it down to)

[NabakovNabakov]

Umm, yeah, its pretty obvious aioqwe is scum at this point, but I don't think he's a CL.

*shrug*

Scum is scum, and I've always had this tickly feeling in the back of my mind that it's been the scum saying different all along. Not that there isn't a logic to going for recruiters, but how possible is it really to pinpoint a lynch like that? How easy could it be to derail a wagon on a recruiter by indicating they're a recruit?

I say we get scum now and sort the rest out later.

vote: Aioqwe

[NabakovNabakov]

good job town...still shocked you lynched me.

Yeah, sorry about that.

So did both cults really target me the night I died?

Also, number of cultists seems low. Night actions?