Thespival Mafia (Denouement)
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Having the jester claimimmediatelyis an absolutemust. Those who are familiar with Thespival know we debated this for about a half hour, and a roomful of highly experienced players came to that conclusion in an objective atmosphere weighing the pros and cons.
Vote: Dani Banani. Boy, doesthatbring back memories."Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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As much as I enjoy voting Dani Banani, I clearly need toVote: Greasy Spot.
The logic here is very simple (although I could go into amuchmore nuanced description, I do not have the time).
The Jester needs to make sure theyare not nightkilled- if that happens, theylose. By not claiming, the Jester runs the riskevery single night of losing automatically. However, the mafia hasabsolutely no incentive to nightkill a Jester. Why? Because if push comes to shove, if the game gets down to a situation such as the following:
1 Mafia
1 Town
1 Jester
The Mafia would rather havethatsituation over:
1 Mafia
2 Town
In the first situation, the Mafiaat the very leastis going to place either first or second; if the Townsperson votes for the Mafia, the Mafia will need to settle for second place and allow the Jester to win - this will be done in order to avoid a full loss. In the second situation, the mafia has a chance atlosing completely.
A partial win is better than no win at all, and assuming complete rationality in the mafia, the best move for the Jester is to claim right off the bat.
All players should bemostconcerned withmaking sure they do not lose. There are essentially two choices:
A.) You are either 1st or 2nd
B.) You are either 1st or 3rd
If the Jester doesnotclaim, they are opting for Choice B. But why settle for the possibility of being last when you can instead solidate yourself with Çhoice A?"Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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To be clearer: being second isnot the same the losing- it is still a win, except you are simplythe second faction to win. Only third place is "losing".
The only exception is that if the Jester is nightkilled (or lynched Day One - whichwill not happen if the Jester claims). In that case, there is only one winner - either the town or the mafia."Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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Use some logic, please.Jester Role wrote:You win if and only if you are lynched on any day except the first.
If the Jester diesany method other than lynching past day one, the Jestercannot win, and thereforeloses.
Exactly.Greasy Spot wrote:And any place other than winning is losing.
It is possible for both the Town and the Jester to win. It is also possible for the Mafia and the Jester to win. The order of winning does not matter - what matters is that factions avoidlosing, which the Jester does if they are nightkilled."Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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Right-o. Jester needs to not be nightkilled.
Now Greasy Spot, riddle me this: can you think ofanyway the Jester can avoid being nightkilledotherthan claiming Jester?
As demonstrated, the Mafia has absolutely no incentive to nightkill the Jester, because the Jester may well be the tool they need in the end to help make sure the Mafia avoids losing."Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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Now that I think on it, I have a topic for discussion - particularly, concerning tyhess's role. After rereading it carefully:
tyhess is not obligated to recruit anybody. To stop possible shenanigans, I suggest that heCult of the Couch Recruiter wrote:Each night, youmayselect a person to join the Cult of the Couch.not recruit anybody. If he is town, his ability really does not help the town whatsoever unless he manages to steal votes away from scum. If he is scum, the town has nothing to gain.
There are very few situations I can see where him using his ability would be justified, and that would benearan endgame situation where he was seen as a likely innocent, and stealing a vote away from potential scum may be the only way to stop the town from being endgamed or unnecessarily quicklynched.
Of course, I'm innately distrustful of any role with the word "cult" and "recruiter" in it; I'd like to hear some opinions on this."Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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Right, right.Iammars wrote:If tyhess gets too powerful, the mafia will just try to shoot him as they know that tyhess is against them.
And if tyhess is mafia I suppose the town would just lose because it would probably take like 2-3 days before the scum's vote outnumbered the town's, unless the town has some way to nightkill or daykill him.
FoS: Iammars."Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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A few idle thoughts:
1.)I've been thinking about hasdgfas' apparent restriction.
If he suddenly "drops" his restriction tomorrow (or a later day), I would suggest not lynching him unless there is a dead jester or we can be reasonably sure he is not the jester, since "breaking a restriction with no punishment" is an obvious tactic for the jester, if for some stupid reason they do not claim today
I'm also not sure why he has the "Amen"/"Hallelujah" in his posts, since we had nothing like that at Thespival whenweplayed Mostly Mute. If it's the case that he is Mafia and there is nothing along the lines of "Monk" in his role-name (where the Amen/Hallelujah came from), I believe it is reasonable to assume somebody in the mafia is experienced enough to know about that particular game and suggested using those particular words. Regardless, it is probably reasonable to assume there is at least one experienced mafiate in any case, so this line of reasoning probably doesn't help things much.
2.)Reading through, I find it hard to believe Greasy Spot went to such lengths to stall or avoid claiming jester / not jester. I can see how somebody might be confused or frustrated in his position, butan innocent would have nothing to lose in simply claiming "not jester" straight awayand asking questions about the tactical advantages of the jester outing him/herself afterwards. His priorities seem all wrong.
The sarcastic replies and flippant attitude are also not helping him (not that I think it is scummy per se, but itisannoying). He also needs to answer my question for whether or not he can think of a method the Jester can avoid being nightkilledotherthan claiming Jester.
3.)
In the future, I would suggest against speculating as to the mechanics of roles when there have been no nights to verify/disconfirm said speculation. I also disagree with you anyhow; it seems perfectly reasonable for him to have that role and no other abilities, while being either town or mafia.Captain Bandwagon, Post 137 wrote:Upon further reflection, I think that tyhess has either got significant additional powers/mechanics and/or he's neither town nor mafia. If he's neither town nor mafia, he either has separate, unique win conditions or he simply is cult cult. Argh, that CotC is a complete mindfuck.
This almost strikes me as an attempt to poison the well against him in the future should he claim to have no additional abilities.
4.)I have been watching everybody's toes carefully, but there has been nothing suspicious yet..."Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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This is an extremely shameless "I am here" post. Please note the utter lack of shame. I will read through the game tonight and make a substantive post at that time.
Note: I expect to be away much of Friday, Saturday, and possibly Sunday due to Mock Trial. I have sent a PM to the mod to the same effect."Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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Mod: If a hypothetical Sane Cop were to investigate the Jester, would they get a guilty, innocent, or some other result?
1.)Obviously the jester claiming today is not the best for the jester – but itisthe best move for the town. It was rather annoying to see so many players arguing against this plan. It only takesoneextra step to get from "Wait a second, that's not a smart thing for Jester to do" to the surprising conclusion of "And wait another second - but itisa good thing for the town".
2.)For some reason, Post 112 by Captain Bandwagon rubbed me the wrong way (and I find it strange myself considering the plethora of votes on Greasy Spot). Sketching out my general reaction would be something like this:
->a.)No indication of whether Captain Bandwagon finds Greasy Spotscummyat this point in time as opposed to 'granting a request'
->b.)Clearly cannot be a 'pressure' vote for more information when it is done directly and solely from a quote of somebody asking to be voted/lynched
->c.)Considering Captain Bandwagon's initial reaction to the "Jester claim Day One" strategy was to argue against it, and his own claim of "I totally know where you're coming from" in [157], I find it difficult to believe he used the fact that Greasy Spot argued against it as a justification for his vote – soifthere was a basis, it would have to be something else
I completely realize there were votes from other people whoalsodid not explain their vote, but this one gave me a different vibe from the others. Later CB claims it was "his [Greasy Spot's] actions" that led CB to think GS was scum in Post 172. So I'm going to ask: what actions in particular were you basing your vote off?
{Coming back}: Looks like it's the sarcastic posts that got Captain B (mentioned in Post 249). That mollifies me somewhat, but I might as well get a fuller explanation.
3.)Post 192 from Dani Banani is highly ironic. It features a chastisement of tyhess for 'not doing research' while subsequently asking why tyhess is not voting who he finds to be suspicious (while tyhess was, in fact, doing just that). Notparticularlyscummy, but difficult to pass by.
4.)In Post 230 from Battle Mage, I get a "play-both-sides-of-the-fence" feel. He doesn't like the logic for Jester coming out on Day One, but the only person he mentions as being suspicious for this is mith. At the same time, he doesn't like Dani Bananis' "interaction with the GS wagon" (which – to me -- seemed like Dani Banani expressing sympathy with GS), and he says that post [182] (where I unvote) "smells terrible".
I get the impression that he is claiming to not like the wagon on GS (confirmed in Post 242), but at the same time seems to say that he doesn't want me to have unvoted him and does not want Dani Banani to be lenient as Dani had been in a similar situation as town before. Could I have some elaboration on this? If I am misunderstanding you, please correct me. Has your view changed on this since you have made that post?
5.)Something about MoS's posts bugs me. I kinda feel like he's just been some random person who walks in the room to say stuff like:
*shrug*Person Walking in a Room Full of Talking People wrote:Did you know the average chocolate bar has anywhere between three to eight bug legs in it?No, I didn't know that until I made it a point to find a silly example to use here. The feeling is mostly a vibe, but that's the best way I can think to describe it.
6.)
When didCaptain Bandwagon wrote:I can't believe you didn't see it, hence my frustration.yourealize the Jester plan was a trap? Your posts have certainly given me reason to doubt you 'knew all along'.
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However.Vote: wolfcrier. How's it going, scum?"Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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wolfcrier, my vote is on you for a few reasons. Here are a few:
1.)You call mith "very scummy" while at the same time tacitly agreeing to his plan by claiming to not be the Jester.
2.)You claim that mith's "logic was off" without referring to the logic of other players who agreed with mith.
3.)The main reason is your Post 273. Earlier you claimed you were "reluctant to vote" (Post 231), yet you seem fine putting theninthvote on Greasy Spot after you had thought mith was "very scummy". You call Greasy Spot both "hypocritical" and "illogical" without explaining how either of those two characterizations apply to Greasy Spot.
4.)You follow up that post with Post 313, still without explaining how hypocritical (much less illogical) applies to Greasy Spot, and additionally wanting us to "get the day over with".
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Some questions for you:
A.)Why were you "reluctant" to vote earlier, and now you want the day to be over quickly?
B.)If you believed mith's "logic was off", how would Greasy Spot disagreeing be "illogical"?
C.)Why have you not explained how you believe Greasy Spot to be both hypocritical and illogical? Additionally,howhas Greasy Spot been both hypocritical and illogical?
D.)Has your opinion on the matter changed now that it has been made clear the Jester plan was a trap?
E.)Did you realize your vote was the ninth vote on Greasy Spot?"Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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hasdgfas, since the town won't be saying [word] enough for you to use a random ability tonight, then you have no reason to continue following your restriction. "Wanting" to continue using your restriction is not going to cut it.
Please explain who you mistook to be doing what. I am not clear on this.wolfcrier wrote:B. If you are going to use that as evidence.. read all my posts because I I mistook the names because I tried reading all the post at once and the names sorta mixed together.
Where -- in your opinion -- has Greasy Spot been hypocritical?"Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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Look. You had four choices if you are telling the truth.
Choice A wrote:Powerless, ProblemsChoice B wrote:Powerless nightChoice C wrote:Unknown Problems
I'm asking why you didn't try A or CChoice D wrote:Not Tellingbeforetelling us "powerless night". The order in which are 'revealing' things is appearing more convenient for you than anything else."Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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CKD: Please read the rules of Mostly Mute Monk if you have questions about how hasdgfas's claimed restriction is supposed to work. To answer your question, votes do not count towards the two word limit. The same goes for an FoS that is properly bolded.
Hasdgfas, I'm going to be very blunt specifically because I am not inclined to believe you at this point. In addition to the problem I have already pointed out, there are the following problems:
1.)You have claimed you need the "whole town" to say the respective word(s) in order for you to receive your random power. In Mostly Mute Monk, roles like this only neededhalfthe town.
2.)Your posts seem to indicate that if people say the A-word, you get a random power, but for the H-word. I doubt you would needbothwords to be fulfilled to get a single random power, and if you only needed one of them, I do not feel it was necessary for you to use both of those words in your posts to begin with. If you indeed only need the A-word, it does not make much sense for you to have used the [H-word] first.
3.)The fact that you have claimed to get a "random" power is disturbing. If you had gotten asetpower which was specified, your claim would be much more believable. Random powers is essentially the same as claiming an "Inventor", which is not a role I am certain Thesp would include; the effects rely on luck rather than skill.
4.)Onlyifyou have another power (besides that of your "random power" you might gain) can I see how "unknown problems" would really be able to affect you. Thesp can't exactly put another post restriction on you; he can't do more than take away a power you don't have to begin with; he clearly will not modkill you; and to randomly punishotherplayers with something that is your doing does not seem feasible.
So. My question for you: do you have an ability other than the random power you might gain if enough people say the correct trigger word(s)?"Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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Fixing2to be more readable, with an extrapolation of a particular thought.
2.)Your posts seem to indicate that if people say the A-word, you get a random power, butnotfor the H-word. I doubt you would needbothwords to be fulfilled to get a single random power. If you only needed one of them (i.e. the A-word), I do not feel it was necessary for you to use both of those words in your posts to begin with, especially when you began the game with the H-Word. I also doubt you would gettworandom powers if both trigger words were satisfied."Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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A few more clarifications and questions, then (and this is by no means saying I will not have any more after this).RossWilliam wrote:Is this vote still paired with your total scum list? Because if that's the case I would have probably echoed some good point somewhere that someone else made about Monkey. Like I said, I didn't think it through. I probably would have behaved similary. You may perceive this as scummy behavior, that's up to you, but at this point I think the best thing for me to do is just be honest regardless of consequence. Cutting corners certainly got me in a hole.
1.)Can I conclude correctly that you would have found a reason to vote most anyone I happened to vote at the beginning of Day Two (besides a vote on yourself)?
-->1a.)If you answered "yes", why is that? Have you found me particularly town, or is it something else?
-->1b.)Are you the type of player who votes based on other players' votes?
-->1c.)Do you consider yourself a bandwagoner?
2.)What do you think of Quickben?
3.)Are you actually interested in hunting for scum? If so, please show me an example in the game where you believe you have honestly made an effort to catch scum.
Note: The longer your response, the better it is for me."Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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FoS: al_kohaulec.
You are not the first person to "thank" me for something (I seem to recall Monkey "thanking" me for clearing up hasdgfas's post restriction), but your post seems more ingratiating than it needs to be.
I have noticed a trend (probably affected by experimenter's bias) that when an experienced player thanks another player for something run-of-the-mill (such asplaying mafia), they are more likely to be scum."Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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Oh? So:al_kohaulec wrote:Jelly, I has Ross marked down as being one of the scummiest players in my notes.
1.)You have notes
2.)You have a list of "scummy players"; and
3.)Ross was on that list, but was not the scummiest
I'm interested. Who are the other scummy players in your notes? Since you claim to have notes, I also expect a few reasons."Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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al_kohaulec wrote:I don't believe I ever made mention of Ross as scummiest or least scummiest.
Please explain these two quotes in more detail, I am not sure I follow you.al_kohaulec wrote:Jelly, I has Ross marked down as being one of the scummiest players in my notes.
No, I had no such knowledge. This was why I FoS'd al_kohaulec, but not you - but in my post, I needed to acknowledge that I was not just arbitrarily applying a rule to al_kohaulec when there was at least one other player (that I could recall) who thanked me for something I do not consider especially thankworthy. I know when I first started playing, I would thank people for posting all the time - that has since seemed to be drained my system (at least to my knowledge).Monkey wrote:Did you know that I was experienced before this post? Even with experience aside, it was just a compliment, what you consider to be just playing mafia may not be just playing mafia to others. I just was complimenting you on something that I felt I should've taken more notice to, but didn't. Not looking for forgiveness here, just stating my side of it.
That said,FoS: Monkey. I can understand a townsperson being thankful that other people are bothering to do stuff, but (at least in my book) a townsperson is more likely to make somethingofinstead of giving those people pats on the head and a dog treat.
I can recall two games off the top of my head where experienced players have thanked others for things which really don't need thanks for (and I believe I have mentioned these same two posts in other games).
1.)Arafax-scum in Ye Olde Porte Towne. I will note that comments like "thanks for answering my questions" (which I use as town in that same game) does not apply, since the relationship between the thanker and the thankee are by no means the same. [To explain more fully, I was interrogating a particular player very harshly, so there was no way I could have been trying to 'buddy' up with them].
2.)LoudmouthLee-scum in Newbie #124. I know this isn't strictly a "thank you" post, but the post is basically saying "thanks everybody for being active and academic".
I know I have seen more instances where my rule tends to hold, but these examples should show the 'feeling' I am referring to; both comments just seemed unnecessary, the purpose of which was to get into the good graces of particular players (whether it be the town as a whole, a select few members of the town, or a particular player). I simply got the same type of vibe from al_ko's post."Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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Ross:
Would you mind doing a comparison between this post made by DeBlaze-scum in Newbie #505 which I have just recently read with your own Post 547? Do you find any relevant differences? If so, please elaborate."Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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Any particular reason you did that, Pooks? Were you trying to undermine my commentary?
I am getting tired of posts which are basically wastes of space. This game is difficult enough already to read given the argument about whether or not the jester should claim, the last thing we need are useless posts like that.
Who do you think is scum? Why?"Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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It would be nice if you stopped being scum. But I suppose we both know that's not going to happen.wolfcrier wrote:It would be nice if some people could answer my questions
I've answered the questions you have posed that I wish to answer at the moment; why don't you try doing some scum-hunting instead of sitting there complaining?"Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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wolfcrier wrote:With out questions being answered and without random voting it is near to impossible to scum-hunt.
It seems as if my two most pro-town players would be BM and PJ. Both have given extensive research for who they think are mafia. My two pro-mafia would be Ross-after his feeble attempt to get me lynched and hasdfas-for putting in no imput what so ever on why he thinks I, or anyone else for that matter, is scum except for religious praise.1.)So far as I can discern, you have only asked questions to myself, RossWilliam, and hasdgfas. I have not answered all of your questions, and I am apparently in your top 2 'most pro-town'; Ross answered your question ("what kind of crap is this?") indirectly by responding to me and others; and hasdgfas can only post two words at a time if he wants to keep with his claimed restriction.
2.)Can I assume you made a misstatement when you said "without random voting it is near impossible to scumhunt"? I think you want "without non-random votes, it is near impossible to scumhunt".
3.)Have you noticed that hasdgfas can only post two words at a time? How do you expect him to give much input with such a restriction? Also, do you understand why he is claiming to use two religious words in particular?
Have you had this role since the beginning of the game? Did you breadcrumb this at all? Why did you choose not to claim on Day One?tyhess wrote:I'm the jester, as well as the cult of the couch...."Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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petroleumjelly he/him/hisThirteenthly, ...he/him/his
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The post you just quoted read to me more like a vote meant to solidify a Greasy Spot lynch than it read to me like a player who was interested in hunting scum. This is evidenced by my questioning your reasoning (that Greasy Spot was "hypocritical" and "illogical"), and as well as the context of your vote (eighth or ninth, or whatever it was).
Contribution =/= hunting for scum. Your posts have not given me any vibes of actually being interested in scum-hunting as of yet."Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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petroleumjelly he/him/hisThirteenthly, ...he/him/his
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What a strange set of interactions. This is in chronological order, all on this page.
1.)Monkey, Post 612 and 613 wrote:
NanookthewolfBattle Mage wrote:An alt of who?2.)Sarcastro, Post 614 wrote:Anyway, I finally remembered to read the rest of the game. It was kind of a waste of time, really.3.)Sarcastro, Post 623 wrote:Also, Monkey is probably just newbie-town, but he's still really annoying me right now.4.)
~~~~~Monkey, Post 624 wrote:Sarcastro wrote:Anyway, I finally remembered to read the rest of the game. It was kind of a waste of time, really.Unvote: Sarcastro
So, a couple questions.
--> Sarcastro:
A.)If you read the game, how did you miss the entirediscussionon Monkey being an alt, as well as himclaimingto be an alt the set of double posts directlybeforeyou claimed to have read the game?
B.)Does the fact that Monkey is NanooktheWolf change your opinion on him?
--> Monkey
A.)Why did you unvote Sarcastro for "reading the game" when it is clear he hasnotread the game by having called you a "newbie"?"Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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petroleumjelly he/him/hisThirteenthly, ...he/him/his
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Mod, wolfcrier voted RossWilliam in Post 580.
I find it curious that RossWilliam has attained a bandwagon, butnotwolfcrier. It seems like comments on wolfcrier slip off like acid on a duck (random Far Side reference) in terms of how well the town seems to react to it, but any note on RossWilliam equates to somebody voting for him. Is there any particular reason for this?
For those of you voting RossWilliam, please explain to me why you are voting for him – and then explain to me why you are voting RossWilliam over wolfcrier."Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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petroleumjelly he/him/hisThirteenthly, ...he/him/his
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CKD, the longer you force Tally to talk with you, the longer it will take for her to finish reading. You can complain about her posts without forcing her to stop her reread and converse with you.
I know for a fact she is a very busy woman, and she hasn't got all day -- contribution won't cost much... just your voice!
*frolics off hummingPoor, Unfortunate Souls...*"Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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I was going to suggest this myself. I'm not going to ignore players I think are scummy on the basis of W[hat-if-they-are-the-jester]IFOM. Probably the absolutePooky wrote:Let's move on, let's just pretend there isn't a jester in the game and lynch some scumbags.easiestway for scum to distance from their partners in this game are comments like:
Hooray! Scum can claim to be suspicious of their partners without any of the drawbacks!Scum Distancing Tactic wrote:I think X is scummy, but I think they are the jester.
^ Note: I would actually bet $1 that at least one scum has already distanced from a partner with a comment along these lines, but that is neither here nor there.
I will try to devote some time to rereading this game, but I expect to be fairly busy soon."Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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Quickben wrote:LMAO again as I realize that MeMe has never once failed to vote me on day one of any game in which we both played.1.)How many finished games have you had with MeMe?
2.)In how many of those games were you scum?
~~~~~
I am not convinced enough of hasdgfas' townieness that I am willing to saythe words. He claimed something bad would happen to him if he broke his restriction, yet nothing to his knowledge occurred. This could very easily be a fake restriction, the purpose of which being to skirt contribution and 'legitimately' stay under the radar."Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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petroleumjelly he/him/hisThirteenthly, ...he/him/his
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I know how it is. I'm not voting with bandwagons; they simply happen to vote with me.MeMe wrote:And Talitha -- I only look as though I'm voting away from bandwagons because the ones I've started have gotten so few joiners.
~~~~~
I also agree that Pooky's "plan" is a waste of time, but unless I find something particularly scummy about it I don't much care either way. If it becomes a distraction to the town, I will have to put my foot down, however. Additionally, I would advise people against thinking any of this makes Pooky any more likely to be protown than you would otherwise think. Anyone interested in similar things Pooky has done as scum need only look at Goofball Mafia or Simpsons Mafia, although I'm sure there are other examples.
Pooks, please explain to me why I should vote Captain Bandwagon, and then explain to me how a guilty CB equates to a guilty wolfcrier."Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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Dropping by. Sorry I didn't post earlier (and yes, I realize this means I never formally commented on the farside22 pressure prior to the role-claim, but *shrug*).
I agree the leaving Farside22 alone for now is the best option. If she is scum, the situation will hopefully take care of itself in time. In the meanwhile, I am still up for a wolfcrier (or whoever replaced him) lynch.
~~~~~
I will note that Pooky is striking me as trying to be purposefully slippery."Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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If you still think farside22 isTalitha wrote:I would much prefer to lynch farside than scramble around looking for another candidate now.
Besides the fact that she's almost certainly not the jester at this point, I still actually think she's scum in spite of her claim.
The tactic of leaving claimed doc alive for the scum to sort out kinda backfired on me in the last game I was in.scum, that's a fine reason to continue voting for her, but I do not agree that lynching 'scummy' claimed Docs because ofonebad experience is a very good justification (which is only tacitly implied in your post; if it is incorrect, feel free to correct me).
When it comes down to it, we can reasonably assume that there is probably only one Doctor, but multiple scum. If we lynch the Doctor, it's gone, but if we lynch a scum, there's still going to be more around.
If we manage to lynch one of thoseotherscum today, we can still make judgments about farside's claim later in the game -- and if she is telling the truth, her very existence could get scum to target a less 'ideal' target from their perspective, and may also result in her saving a townsperson.
I certainly hope that was not an attempt to get Farside22 modkilled. Comments like this are completely pointless in-thread. Evenhasdgfas wrote:PM quoting?ifyou are scum, you would have been better served sending a PM to Thesp. Regardless of alignment, this is bad form."Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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Unvote: JDGA. I'm concerned about the players on this bandwagon, and given that only a plurality is necessary for a lynch, my vote is not strictly needed to achieve anything at this point. I would still suggest against lynching Farside22 for the time being, but I will not have time to read the game through and decide where I want my vote to be before deadline.
Note:I will be gone from tomorrow (Thursday) to approximately Sunday, likely without access to a computer."Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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This game just got very depressing very quickly. In any case,Vote: farside22. I'm honestly not sure what to think of this game at the moment, because farside22 surviving the night underanycircumstances seems highly unlikely to me.
Very tempted to speculate about night-killing roles, but I'm not sure that will get us anywhere."Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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Just high-lighted my vote-notes, comforted to see that all of Sarcastro, Tally, and alky were on the Farside22-wagon yesterday. I think given the dead Doctor, the make-up of the bandwagon, and the fact that Farside22 was not nightkilled are pretty good indicators we've got a scum.
I would suggest we use the two to three weeks we have trying to pinpoint other scum, especially if we can expect the nightkills to continue at this rate."Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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petroleumjelly he/him/hisThirteenthly, ...he/him/his
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Hi. Let's look at your "scum scores":
According to your analysis, regardless of farside's alignment, I am either #1 or #2 "scummiest" on your list. You claim to think hasdgfas is scum even though you later claim to have not realized he claims to have a posting restriction (a bit hard to believe for anybody who claims to have read the game). Since hasdgfas is lower on the scale than I am in both cases, you must therefore think those higher are also scum. Basically, you calling the set of {Farside22, PJ, hasdgfas, RossWilliam} all scum, which I have nothing against people doing, but it does strike me as silly given that you have explained any of the reasoning (if there is any) you are employing.Beep! Beep! wrote:With farside as unknown alignment
95 PJ
91 RossWilliam
88 hasdgfas
78 farside
53 MoS
50 BM
33 MeMe
33 Holy
33 karma
20 Iammars
With farside as scum
116 RossWilliam
108 PJ
83 hasdgfas
66 MeMe
58 MoS
58 karma
50 BM
33 Holy
25 Iammars
You further fail to realize that all the townies (etc.) have the same pictures, and the same goes for town roles -- if there were two full Doctor roles, thenyes, they bothwouldbe Doctor McCoys because that's how mith's cards are set up to work.
Throughout it all, you have failed to give yourownexplanation for your own suspicions, so yes - when you askmewhy I unvoted Farside22, itdoesstrike me as a pot calling the kettle black. How are we to judgeyouwhen you aren't explaining yourself?
The purpose of my unvote should have been fairly self-explanatory. It is early in the day, my vote is not strictly necessary, and I am not comfortable with Farside22 being lynched before I have time to think it over (which is more likely to longer I leave my vote on her)."Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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petroleumjelly he/him/hisThirteenthly, ...he/him/his
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I (sadly) have to agree with BM. Pooky mentioned his results last Thursday; people have had time to claim if they were going to do so. If Pooky intends on revealing, we are better off with that knowledge sooner rather than later. The last thing I want is a mad scramble at deadline."Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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In my procrastination from real life, I was making my vote list for Day Three of this game, and I ran into this doozy:
Beep! Beep!, Post 1186 wrote:Mafia wouldn't care to attack claimed Doc #2. Because they can always NK him anyway, they don't need to compromise themselves during the lynch. And the cop is dead. Mafiosi don't have to worry about an unknown doctor protecting an outed cop with results every day.
Hrm. Now let's review:Beep! Beep!, Post 1184 wrote: Summary:
95 # PJ - scum
91 # RossWilliam - scum
33 # MeMe – scum
petroleumjelly, Post 969 and Post 971 wrote:This game just got very depressing very quickly. In any case,Vote: farside22. I'm honestly not sure what to think of this game at the moment, because farside22 surviving the night under any circumstances seems highly unlikely to me.
Very tempted to speculate about night-killing roles, but I'm not sure that will get us anywhere.
...
Just high-lighted my vote-notes, comforted to see that all of Sarcastro, Tally, and alky were on the Farside22-wagon yesterday. I think given the dead Doctor, the make-up of the bandwagon, and the fact that Farside22 was not nightkilled are pretty good indicators we've got a scum.MeMe, Post 970 wrote:Right with you, pj.
vote: farside22
Inconsistency, much? The first three people to attack Farside22 after it was clear he was effectively claiming a second Doc were myself, MeMe, and RossWilliam, in that order. The three of us are on the top of Beep! Beep!'s list as "scum". He then says "mafia wouldn't dare attack claimed Doc #2". This is as inconsistent as inconsistencies go. I would like an explanation for this posthaste.RossWilliam, Post 972 wrote:yeah. yesterday I was with enough potential doubt not to vote farside, but the odds are so stacked against her claim being valid now that I think it's reached an ultimatum.
vote: farside22"Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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Mod, the vote count in Post 1262 appears to be incorrect; Battle Mage had switched his vote from Farside22 to MeMe in Post #1257. Was this intentional?"Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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I will regret making this post multiple times over, but I cannot concentrate on the essay I should be writing right now, so I might as well do something "productive".
1.)I need to emphasize something, because nobody seems to be getting it. I think the best move for the town is to lynchas if there is not a jester.
Why?
You can bet your bottom dollar that if a scum thinks they have a chance of being lynched,they are going to try to play like they think a jester would play. The strategy is so completely obvious, and I know I have done the same as scum in scumchat games (one in particular had the final day lastover an hourbecause I had the town so worried I might be a jester).
There has probably been at least one mafiate who has tried to paint themselves (however successfully) as the Jester all game, even without having been put under pressure. Additionally (like I have said before), focusing on the Jester allows a mac-and-cheese (it'ssoeasy!) distancing tactic of "I think X (i.e. my partner) might be the Jester".
This is almost like the "Hero" role in Kingmaker; everybody worries about it so much, but the better play is simply to ignore it until youhaveto deal with it. To do otherwise is a waste of time, and will only leave you into second-guessing everything you think.
Lynching people who 'might' be Jester is only going totake away playing options from the scum.
Ido not consider the jester "winning" equivalent to the town "losing" when the game continues. If the town gets second, I willnotbe placing it as a "loss" in my statistics.I would rather lynch the Jester than a townsperson, when it comes right down to it, and that's how I am going to play.
2.)I still don't like the general feel from MoS's posts. I've mentioned this before in Post #368. His commentary is sporadic, and his latest attack on MeMe – easily the peak of his activity – appears opportunistic.
[Afternote: It appears MoS mentioned he would be gone for a while in Post #425; I should keep this in mind].
3.)I dislike Post #394 by Battle Mage immensely.
First he uses WIFOM ("This is rather insulting. That as scum, i would be so controversial so early on and basically invite attention onto myself. ").
Second, he completely misses the initial point of Quickben's post (i.e. "When you know a gambit works for the town, try shutting up").
Third, he attacks Quickben for 'wanting to do the same thing as Battle Mage' (lynch the jester on Day One), which is skirting Quickben's more substantial point: that people who are specifically disadvantaged by plans tend to be the one's who argue against them the most.
Fourth, he suggests that Quickben's commentary is not even worth reading ("You expect me to read the rest of your comments? ").
4.)hasdgfas, were you toldexactlywhat "power" you gained last night?
5.)Battle Mage, Post 516 wrote:Anyone voting for Sarc is dumb. An FoS i can just about tolerate, because there is no doubt that his play is scummy.
Explain.Battle Mage, Post 246 wrote:FoS's are lame. Dont be a pussy. Make it a vote.
6.)Battle Mage, Post 522 wrote:Dont be immature.
Explain.Battle Mage, All Posts wrote:*Immaturity*
7.)The more I read Battle Mage's posts, the more I am realizing he has been consistently focusing on finding the Jester more than he has focused on finding scum. Every other post seems to reference somebody possibly being the Jester.FoS: Battle Mage.
8.)How didn't I notice this before? Post 740 is a complete cop-out explanation. Although he technically 'answers' Talitha's question, he pointedly avoids denying the possibility that he is scum.FoS: Pooky.
9.)MeMe explicitly asked the town to "poke holes" in her plan if they thought something was wrong with it. Given the caliber of players in the game, it is unlikely that MeMe saw problems in her plan when she made it; if shehadseen the flaw, I think it is very clearshe would not have suggested the plan in the first place. I'm actually inclined to think her plan was made in good faith.
10.)
Three nightkills = possibly more than one scumgroup = not necessary for 'co-scum' to kill Tally. Do you have any information which suggests that all this killing is coming from a single group, by chance?mathcam wrote:First, I think I sincerely believe he [Pooky] would not have killed Tally as scum (though obviously his co-scum could have out-voted him), and second, I think this set of plays is more likely to come from a Jester than a scum.
~~~~~
I think I am starting to get a handle on this game.
{Beep! Beep!, Holy, Pooky} all seem intertwined to me – and not in a good way. I would not be surprised one iota if this threesome is all scum together. I do not understand how Beep! Beep! goes from mentioning Pooky has been on "five wagons" to not even giving him a "scum score" based off the voting system. Additionally, when Pooky votes/unvotes without explanation, Beep! Beep! says nothing about it; whenIunvote without explanation, he is all over me like a pack of dogs on a three-legged cat.
Beep! Beep! calling Pooky "town" for his plan is completely stupid. Whycan'tscum doexactly what Pooky did? It runs a 0% risk for scum. Any partners of Pooky would have probably been told in advance about the 'plan', and hence they would not claim. Pooky might even get a town-role to out themselves in the process. If such were to happen, Pooky would then likely point the finger at some random player (who the town probably suspects anyways), and then try to squeeze two lynches out of it. Given that the town has already lostsevenplayers, the scum can probably afford a war of attrition, such that Pooky would not be overly concerned about surviving throughout the entire game.
Holy has been implicitly defending wolfcrier/Beep! Beep! all game on the basis of "gee, it looks like he is the jester". wolfcrier/Beep! Beep! has also struck me as individually scummy all game. I also think Pooky is probably individual scum basedsolelyon his response to Talitha post I mentioned above.
Holy is the contingency, so I would prefer to lynch either Beep! Beep! or Pooky. I am honestly not sure what to think about Farside22 at the moment. I am not particularly inclined to believe a second Doctor, but I am becoming less and less enthused by those people who have been attacking her.
I want the three of these players toall comment on each other. Pooky needs to comment on Beep! Beep! and Holy; Beep! Beep! needs to comment on Pooky and Holy; and Holy needs to comment on Beep! Beep! and Pooky.
I also believe Battle Mage to be individually suspicious, but I cannot say for sure if I think he would be part of this particular grouping; more likely I would need to adjust it completely, but I'm tired and not going to bother.
The biggest problem with this game is that I do not think anybody is particularly town-looking. Everybody Ithoughtwas probably town has been killed.
Vote: Beep! Beep!."Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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Here is Beep! Beep!'s commentary on Pooky.
Beep! Beep! wrote:My wagon is not so big that I think there is a lot of scum on it. This being said, I do believe that Pooky's vote on me IS scummy. Less so for the others.Beep! Beep! wrote: Pooky was on FIVE of these wagons
Farside/CB was on THREE
Pj on TWO
Mastermind on TWO
hasdgfas on TWO
RossWiliam on TWO
Pooky's bandwagon vote on me yesterday was very suspicious. I also see the case against farside. Farside might only be more careful than Pooky. I would be willing to vote for wither Pooky or farside today.
I want Pooky to explain in detail why he joined every wagon. Can scum be that brazen and in-your-face?Beep! Beep! wrote: Pooky was on SIX of these wagons
Farside/CB was on THREE (out of 5 because one wagon was on her)
RossWiliam on THREE
Pj on THREE
Mastermind on TWO
hasdgfas on TWO
MeMe on TWOBeep! Beep! wrote:But assuming that Pooky is town (I have a hard time to believe that scum would be so blatantly wagonny) and that farside is scum, I have looked back at the previous days wagons:Beep! Beep! wrote: Since Pooky himself came out, I am free to point out that I noticed that he was cleared by the dead cop. Pooky is a dead teddy bear walking.
Here's what I'm getting from Beep! Beep! posts:Beep! Beep! wrote: I get a solid town vibe from Pooky. His trap didn't work, but only townies would pull that kind of gambit.
1.)"Everybody who joined too many bandwagons is suspicious, except for Pooky because I have a hard time believing that scum would be so blatantly wagonny".
2.)"I think Pooky was cleared by alko_haulec, the Cop", when he asked "Pooky, why are you town?"
3.)"Pooky is town because of his 'gambit'".
The problems with1are obvious; it's completely arbitrary. Beep! Beep! should be listing Pooky in his "scum scores" if his 'scores' are to carryany weight whatsoever, because in order foranybodyto understand them we need points of reference. He has said himself that the "scum scores" are basedsolelyon votes and nothing else; if this were true, he would not be peremptorily excluding Pooky.
The problems with2have been hashed over by MeMe in Post #1055. This postperfectlyexplains how I find itincrediblyunlikely that alky had investigated Pooky as innocent.
Note: Pooky's response to "Why are you town" was "Why wouldn't I be town"? This is the second time Pooky has pointedly avoiding claiming town / not town.
The problems with3have been pointed out by myself; scum haseveryreason to pull thatexacttype of gambit.
~~~~~
I mentioned at the beginning of the day that I did not want to talk about nightkills, but it appears as though I might have to regardless.
1.)It is possible that we have multiple Doctors with multiple abilities; anybody who was at Thespival probably remembers the "Doctor" game where we had 'sane' and 'insane' Doctors. This could account for a nightkill or two. (Note, however, that since Farside22 claimed to protect me on Night One, that in order for her to be an 'insane' Doctor I would either have to have been protected that same night, or I would have to be scum, or somebody would have had to nullify Farside's 'protection' on me in some manner).
2.)I am personally skeptical that one of the kills was from a Vigilante, because I think any Vigilante with a brain would have killed Farside22 last night, given that Monkey was lynched as a Doctor; on the other hand, we may have had a stupid Vigilante trying to nightkill somebody they thought was the Jester.
3.)The win conditions displayed in the first post only include "the town", "the mafia", and "a jester". Here's where my own metagaming of Thesp comes in.
mith's cards have four distinct scum-groups: mafia, werewolves, Serial Killer, and Cult Leader. There is no werewolf win condition in the first post. There is also no "Serial Killer" win condition on the first post. There is no Cult Leader win condition in the first post. Additionally, if there were multiple mafia groups, I would think Thesp would have altered the win condition to say "You win when at least half of the living players aremafiapart of your mafia, or when nothing can prevent the same."
All this suggests to me that there might just be theonekilling scum-group, and that they might have access tomorethan one killing method."Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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petroleumjelly he/him/hisThirteenthly, ...he/him/his
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Here's what's relevant. We've lost seven townspeople, and no scum. There are 14 players left, one of which is the Jester. If you were scum, you would know the minimal size of your scum-group, and would hence be able to judge how many lynches you would need to win, as well as what are likely to be the other scum groups, if any.Pooky wrote: Yea PJ
Scum are gonna go war of attrition with town in a game with 3 nightkills.
That's genius
what day is it btw?
A lil early for war of attrition wouldn't you say?
If I was scum, there's no way in hell I stick my neck out that far and you know it.
Suppose your scum-group is large enough that you would probably be inclined to think the scum-group opposing you is probably a Serial Killer. Your scum-group probably would not have killed Talitha, which means that you would know that whoeverdidkill Talitha was likely either a Serial Killer, or a Vigilante. If you managed to lynch either of those roles, your group would only bethat much better offwith a war of attrition, because you are taking down other killing roles in the process. Even if you managed to get either one of those roles toclaim, it is possible your scum-group would have the ability to role-block that player, or even nightkill that player. So yes: I can see scum going after a war of attrition on Day Three pretty easily.
If scum already thought they were going to be lynched, then trying to act as the jester is of no risk to them. Regardless of whether or not the Jester dies afterwards, they will have saved themselves for at least a day. You know as well as I do that scum will claim things theyPooky wrote: yea
scum would act as jester
that's good idea PJ
except if a Jester gets lynched or nightkilled.
Then that scumbag is a little bit screwed enh?knowmight eventually get them lynched, because they are going to be concerned overstaying alive as long as possible."Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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petroleumjelly he/him/hisThirteenthly, ...he/him/his
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The only thing off the top of my head is Verbose 2 (where my idea stemmed from), where each mafiate had a 1-Shot kill, to be used on any night (and since the game started with three mafiates, there could potentially be three kills on the same night solely from their group). Also in that game, the Serial Killer could kill up to two people each night."Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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petroleumjelly he/him/hisThirteenthly, ...he/him/his
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For your other comment, I would much rather our Vig - should we have one - try to kill scum (mafia, SK, Cult, whatever) instead of trying to kill the Jester. Believe it or not, if we kill all the anti-town roles other than the Jester, the game is over. If we kill the Jester, the game isnotover. Guess which one I'm more concerned about killing?"Logic? I call that flapdoodle."-
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petroleumjelly he/him/hisThirteenthly, ...he/him/his
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