Antrax Returns: Game Over.

[CoolBot]

Vote: Antrax. Welcome back to Mafiascum!

Vicous

vote: the silent speaker

[CoolBot]

I'm leaning towards voting jadesmar over mathcam. Yes, cam could be running some sort of scam, but from what I remember, that's not really his style, and vaguely claiming a role just to off one person wouldn't be that successful anyway. Actually, what's making me most suspicous is TSS's loud attempt to derail the bandwagon. I wouldn't be suprised if the two of them are linked somehow.

[CoolBot]

What is with all these hedged claims. First, cam and now Jadesmar. I find it hard to believe

both

of them have super secret roles that can't be mentioned. It seems every post mathcam makes is just to make us more and more suspicous of him. Maybe mathcam is trying to get votes against him for some reason?

[CoolBot]

To keep the pressure on jadesmar, who looks like he's trying to hide something,

vote: jadesmar

And cubsfan, whould you rather we all hint at our roles? Mafia have more info than townies, so they are more likely to figure the hints out than we are.

[CoolBot]

And cubsfan, whould you rather we all hint at our roles?

Cubsfan ?

Ack, I meant flying dutchman.

[CoolBot]

I -do- think, however, that you are certainly taking the easy way out.

Just curious. What do you mean by this? That Yaw is simply making the easiest case against someone?

Who said I was voting you for the same reason Yaw is?

Well, you did post that you agreed with Yaw with no further clarification.

If mathcam is voting Antrax for a different reason than Yaw is, I feel a little bit better about voting him. Like Quailman said, cam's been right before. Also, Antrax seems to be trying to scare us off by implying Yaw is scum scratching together a wild theory. In fact, Antrax's only real defense is speculating on the hypothetical case of Jadesmar being innocent. And that's not really relevant, nor is it provable one way or another.

vote: Antrax

[CoolBot]

I'd like to hear from cam about Antrax's claim. Mostly, I want to know if mathcam's info jives with the claim. What I really don't need is detailed info like the type tss wants.

One thought I had about the Gambinos: They're a real mafia family, as opposed to the Corleones & Sopranos, which are fictional. Could this be why the Gambinos are (allegedly) town, whereas the others are scum groups?

[CoolBot]

Two things bother me about Antrax. 1) I can't recall being a doc and being told when I blocked someone; Antrax assumed this to start the game and claims that's why he was suspicous of IS. That assumption doesn't seem a reasonable one to me. 2) Antrax is hedging his claim by leaving open the possiblity he's scum.

Still, mathcam's isn't sure of his results anymore, and since I was following him,

unvote: Antrax

[CoolBot]

I still want to know why people are willing to lynch a claimed doc when we don't know for sure that our cop is sane.

We have two options here: 1) Believe the cop who's been successful, or 2) believe the claimed self-protecting doc with some investigative power. I find a doctor who can tell if he was attacked to be unlikely, so that's why I'm leaning towards #1.

And I too find it interesting that MAthcam won't give us a name.

When did anyone ask mathcam for a name, anyway? It seems weird people are calling him on this when no one directly asked him. Yes, Antrax implyed mathcam's name was Gambino, but no one has asked him, because until this discussion, it hasn't been important. Now, it seems Antrax & Jaguar are trying to paint mathcam as uncooperative, when he really hasn't been.

I do, however, think mathcam should tell us if he's Gambino or not. If he's a different name, it's up to him.

What are the chances that all the members of a mafia group have roles anyway? The entire thrust of the Gamino=townie theory is that mith & electra didn't have roles. Couldn't this also be because they were generic scum, while others, like Antrax, have powers? The fact is, lynching Antrax does help us a bit in figuring out how the Gambinos are set up. Enough to risk a possible town doc? Well, since Antrax is busy trying to discredit a cop who has been successful, I doubt he is a doc.

One more thing. If I attacked someone and that person didn't die, I would be pretty hesitant about announcing it to the world that I was surprised that person is alive. So, Antrax, your revised explanation about IS doesn't really make much sense.

vote: Antrax

[CoolBot]

Antrax, I'm not the one raving about things here.

Anyway, I'm going to answer your points that appear to apply to me.

B) You are mafia because a cop said so.
MY refutation: The "cop" doesn't find out roles or alignment, but is told whether someone belongs to a mafia family or not. I told you I have a mafia last name before the cop revealed his info. Were I lying scum, don't you think I'd've just claimed doc?

Day 1, mathcam was successful in pointing out jadesmar. He finds out if someone is part of a mafia family or not. What he doesn't find out is if they have a mafia name. Further, mneme had already introduced the idea that Gambinos might not be scum, and if I was scum & Gambino, I sure would encourage that thinking. Jaguar, interstingly, reminds the town of this possiblity a couple posts before you claim. And when you do claim, you drop the big bomb shell that Gambinos aren't mafia. Sad to say I fell for it initially, but it seems doubtful now. At the very least, you are trying to discredit the info cam gets. Differentiating this from discrediting cam seems like splitting hairs to me, though.

C) A self-protecting doc isn't plausible.
My refutation: Oh, is that why the role was used in numerous games?

D) Docs aren't told if they save someone at night.
My refutation: They do, in some games. For example, every game I ever ran.

Numerous games? Got a cite for that? I find the possibilty, from my experience, to be unlikely. If you could link to recent games that do have it, I might change my mind. And why would you even use such an abilty? Oh wait, you magically learn when your protectee is attacked. And since you design your games this way, we making waaay off base assuming this game that's not designed by you is designed otherwise.

E) Lynching you gives us more info.
My refutation: No it doesn't. Even if I'm lying scum, I WILL have a last name that's a mafia name, and if I really am the mafia doc people to think I am, you'll never know whether I was evil or not. Moreover, I've explained at length why the right move is to keep me alive, as you can always lynch me later, something to which nobody replied.

I suppose we learn nothing if you are scum & you're name is Gambino & you're role is doc. Of course, all the scum roles have had scum type names, so if you're a scum doc, I imagine we'd be able to realize it.

F) You're lying.
My refutation: Possible. Yet, you gain nothing by lynching me immediately and not later, so why not give me the benefit of the doubt?

Oh, I think we can learn a thing or two. I know this is hard to believe, but we don't need you around to tell us what to think about the info given.

Finally, since you failed to reply to one of the biggest points against you in my mind, let me reiterate:
You claimed IS targeted you because you protected yourself and IS expressed surprised you stayed alive. No scum in his right mind would've done such, and for you to say thats what happened just shows that you're making it up as you go along, Antrax. Remember how Day 1 you thought IS targeted mith?

[CoolBot]

Well, there is the possiblity that you're the last Gambino, in which case it makes sense to lynch you as soon as possible. In fact, it doesn't seem like that big of an assumption. With three scum groups with three members, that's nine out of 21, which is a lot already.

[CoolBot]

You claimed IS targeted you because you protected yourself and IS expressed surprised you stayed alive.

This is actually the exact opposite of what Antrax claimed in re IS. He said that he did not prevent a kill by self-protecting -- i.e. that IS did not target him -- and therefore when IS came out swinging against him he assumed that IS had made his opening strategy one of leaving Antrax alive and trying to get him lynched for it.

Alright, I see where I was a tad confused with Antax's explanation of why he thought IS was suspicous. He claimed IS never targeted him, because otherwise he would've been notifired. Instead, IS & friends had thought to target Antrax Night 1, and decided otherwise. And then, beginning Day 1, IS decided to announce to the world who he thought about targeting. I just don't see scum doing that. Thus, IMO, Antrax was throwing out crap logic out Day 1 and he was either lucky in that IS was scum or he was scum with IS.

[CoolBot]

Whew, when MMCL decided to wait for Jaguar, I thought we were sunk. If I understand her role correctly, she could've lynched say Yaw and MMCL would not have been able to do anything. Then Jaguar could've lynched him the next day, right?

So, was everyone scum or what?