Cultafia: Game over
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Skruffs Pantsman
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Skruffs Pantsman
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Posts 19, 20, and 21 are all horrible.
Fos : yosarian, armlx, curiouskarmadog
Drippinggoofball was SHOT, which is the MO of both the vig (if there is one) and the sk (if there is one). Neither of these roles are assured, but all three of these players in their first (or thereabout) posts seem to indicate the opinion, at least ,that there may not be a vig and there is an SK.
Fos fos fos. The only reason anyone could know that there is an SK and not a vig is if a cult recruited the vig last night.
Secondarily, I think 2 cults AND an sk seems like a bit much; if they were successful, then we just started the game with 33% scum and if we lynch wrong today, we wind up going to day 2 with 7/14(or 1 or 12) which is 50% scum which means an almost guaranteed scum win. I don't think a sane mod would use a setup which even, theoretically, COULD put the town in lylo day 1.
On to page two...-
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Skruffs Pantsman
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Skruffs Pantsman
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This is insane. "We have to lynch you if you claim so that the cult's recruitment choice is kept random and unknown". Because why lynch someone who could be the RECRUITOR if we can lynch a future recruitee?!Blazerunner wrote: (Re: someone claiming a power role)
-He is lying, so he is probably not pro-town and should be lynched
-He is telling the truth, and is probably going to be recruited, and should be lynched so it doesnt happen
Vote : Blazerunner
armlx states lynchign recruits is 'only better' than a mislynch... I am assuming he means until AFTER the recruitors are dead... me thinks armlx is a recruit (see page one suspicion too).
Yos playing ignorant, speaking as a group, building town support for himself.. not liking it... fearmongering ...
blazerunner is scum. "If we question pro-town players, what are the chances we'll lynch a recruitor"?! As far as I was aware, cult recruitors are players, just like town players.
blazerunner backtracking, throws out alarmist clause 'oh yeah'
Fos : Armlx, Yosarian2, Blazerunner-
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Skruffs Pantsman
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Are you confirmed in some manner, MNOWAX?
Why did you claim? Were you under pressure? Are you trying to draw Alarmist fire? Are you the SK and are hoping that there is no vig? Were you recruited last night and are trying to draw out killing role counter claims so as to help your cult win (possibly at your own expense?)
I isolated your posts and searched for "vig" until I saw you say "I amavig". That's your claim.
Not the vig, but A vig, to allow yourself the possibility of pushing multiple vigs?
There's a lot more that needs to be said about this but I need to look at the rest of the game first.-
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Skruffs Pantsman
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PAge 3
Note: I am aware that a few people have claimed, but I have been really busy this last weekend so I forget who claimed vig or whatnot. I'll figure it out later, but that is actually going to help me read this with a clean slate. I Think MNOWAX and Blazerunner both claimed *something* but I forget what.
Armlx calls out Yos, for voting Blazerunner for OMGUS voting TheSilentSpeaker, who squirms delightfully and pulls up his 'official post' on OMGUS. The only way his post could be seen as applicable, though, is if he thought that A) TSS was town (or at least on his team) or B) he is twisting the normal OMGUS into something like this.
54-Blazerunner says the OMGUS wasn't an OMGUS, and then (appears) to dismantle his own case by explaining the basis for it. HE misses the point that if you lynch the cult-recruiter rather than trying to lynch people you think the recruiter will hit, those players are SAFE from being recruited. (fosfosfos)
56: vikingfan encourages targetting recruits. Pushes a "not many town can be recruited" theory, which is either a massive breadcrumb (which means he's one of only a few roles OR a cult recruitor) and tries to dismiss the risk we may be in. You shouldn't dismiss risk unless you know that it is not possible or don't want others tot hink it's possible.
Unvote, Vote : Vikingfan
Sidenote: Much like in VEngeful, the recruits are probably going to play like Goons to keep the Godfather (cult recruitor) safe. Inasmuch, the Cult Recruiter will probably (if town catches on to that) act like a recruit or like a townie.
Yos's 58: The setup takes pains to let everyone know what would happen if there are two cults (ie cult recruitors are unrecruitable) but there's nothing in the setup that would strongly indicate there is one recruitor or two, except for that line about the recruitors being unrecruitable.
Greggo's 59: This girl is smart, I Agree with her. (Finally I replace someone that has a similar reasoning as me!)
mnowax's 60 sounds pretty indignant. If I'm not mistaken, Mnowax claimed something already... Will find out with further reading I am sure, butNoteto come back to this.
vikingfan's 61 is... nonsensical. Intentionally so? I'm glad I am voting him, he is cult.
armlx's 62 is a pretty good refute for MNOWAX, but if you want to look at this as prisoner's dilemma, we could pretty easily just play as normal until one cult recruiter is dead, and at that point, if a majority of players agree to it, the other cult recruitor could claim and we would all no-lynch until cult wins. But what would be the fun in that?
Blaze is scum, too. 64 confirms it. Pushing the lynching of claimed townies and then saying there ARE no claimed townies indicates that he is not a townie that might claim so. I can't think of why a townie would intentionally push a plan that would result in their own death AND hurting hte town and helping the cult at the same time. Later on saying "it is not such an absurd suggestion that only a cultist would do."slams the nail on the head. HE knows that it is a pro-cult suggestion, he is defending the non-cultiness of it which means he is aware of it.
Yos suggests that tcult recruiters will lurk and fosses mnowax for suggesting townies do the same. Actually... I will give Yosarian brownie points for this oneNotebut has YOS been lurking? Most of his play up to that point has been... defensive, right?
blaze stops defending himself, and starts pushing vig/sk talk. His 3 things ignored #4: Vig killed and there is no SK, and #5 SK killed there is no VIg, and #6 Vig killed nad SK chose not to. But that may have been him setting up his claim for later on.note
Yos tells vanillas not to claim. WHy? IF forced to claim or die, you are requesting them to die. Why? Good catch on his 3-possibilities things, but why wouldn't you follow that up?
Blaze pushing "I'm not a cult, really guys" line, kind of dropping all other pretenses.This divulges into WIFOM as (in the post after he laid out his softclaim of vig) he starts asking if a good claim would 'save' him, even though claiming a role that is recruitable means nothing at this point, unless he is a cultist and is pulling attention away from his recruitor.
vikingfan AGAIN pushing the pro-cult agenda. "We may have the alarmist, don't worrrrrrry about it...."
armlx and blazerunner jabbing at each other....
On to page four!
Blazerunner starts off by suggesting that everyone voting him is town and that he could be really close to a lynch... (Why would only town be voting you if you ARE town, though? that's suggesting that scum aren't oppurtunistic, which is rarely the case on townie lynches, espcially on day one)
Mnowax picks up on his soft claim and votes him for it
Yosarian attacks Mnowax for this... this is interesting, he suggests that DGB may have been attacked by BOTH the vig and the SK although it says in the rules that any and all kill attempts would be noted, and since DGB only was shot once we know that she was only attacked by one playe r(successfully, anyways). HE begins to pry Mnowax about what he knows; if Blazerunner was fake-soft-claiming, this is Yosarian trying to get a claim out of Mnowax, since Mnowax 'took the bait', which means if one is cult, the other probably is, too. The last bit about 'why would we kill the SK?" might be considered an additional defense of Blaze as something OTHER than cult recruitor - which is intriguing. I can't imagine the cult recruitor would defend a lowly recruit (even a recruited vig if that WERE the case) like that, which implies that yosarian might be the recruit.
but now Viking is defending blaze too. AARRGGH! Cults stick together, I guess.
armlx votes Blaze even after Yos's 'would we want to lynch the SK at this point' sugestion, which means he is either voting for what he sees as a vig or what he sees as an SK. Neither of which (I have to agree with Yos here) are good lynches; a claimed SK becomes the cult(S)'s KILL target n1, which prevents them from recruiting, which helps town.
Cultists: Blazerunner, Vikingfan, armlx, Yosarian2
yosarian plays deaf and dumb... more fossing necessary
armlx helps Mnowax's claim of Watcher - but why Watcher and not Tracker? and later then has second thoughts and warns against anyone hammering. WHy would he out what he sees as a claimed power role, though?
vikingfan being scummy again...
CKD just shot up there by asking if Mnowax would be willing to be lynched if Blaze comes up town.... *fosfosfos*
viking being MORE scummy... seriously... he needs to die
Page 5
yos reasserts his SK thing, although he's been hiding out ever since blaze was 'caught', a dramatically different appproach.
blaze follows up on CKD's line of thought and says Mno is digging his own grave...
Note though: if Blaze is the cult recruitor and MNO tracked/watched/etc, then his action failed because DGB was killed the same night as she was recruited, so even if he was tracked to her, (Which is the only possibility as a watcher would provide TWO names and not one), it isn't indicating that he killed her, as MNOWAX is implying, which, if he IS A power role, is remarkably silly to overlook.
Ah. Yos kind of just summed that up in 119.
occult and Spring come out of left field... occult, saying mno may not be the best lynch for the day, completely ignoring EVERYTHING else... fosfosfos
blaze ends page five much like the bush administration. Deny everything and blame the reporters.
Blaze redeems himself partially by 'giving MNO a chance' to explain himself, so long as that explaining doesn't involve claiming investigations. IE he's saying MNO could just be a very confident but misguided townie. But then he votes for him anyways; which defeats the point of saying that in the first place.
OCcult comes back with more suspicion of MNO, avoiding blaze entirely.note
Yos misspelled "Hear" as "here" in 132. I think that might be a scumtell for him. *Fosfosfos*
Blaze is pushing the 'I have a night action but didn't use it on DGB' train, which he has been doing since page three. Sidenote: If Blaze is the SK and was planning on claiming VIG, then MNO might be the cult recruiter who tried to recruit Blaze and failed n0. Alternatively, Occult could be Blaze's recruit(er) and that is why he's lurking hardcore and pushing the mno's scum angle.
137 - When did Malthus replace intot he game? He points out that Blaze erred in saying there was mafia but ignores the underlying point : That blaze is worried that Mno is a scum (ie another scum team) who is trying to bus him.
141 -Curious what YOS meant in this post; who is he implying is the scum recruit, mnowax or blaze?
144- mypenguin;'s first post to the game, and it's kind of scummy. "This person isn't contributing enough" - and htat's it. *fos*
147-occult being distracting...
page 7!
154-yos pushing Blaze as vig, sk, or recruit (not recruiter) again...
155- FOS ckd pushing Blaze to claim vig... and then says he believes his(who, mno's?)
claim....?????
Pushing claiming iwthout scumhunting equals *fos* but he is turning attention to Viking, who is more likely scum than either of those two (for lurking and such)Note
160, interestingNote
161-interestingNote
164-Blaze redeems himself!*fos: armlx*
occult jumps at the chance to save blaze... yeah. Not good there.
armlx declares neither mno or blaze is recruitor, which is categorically unable to be said.
Cult: Occult, Armlx, vikingfan, yos2
174: nice introductory post by nabnab.. and I will post this now as I have other things do to!
Next: Page 8 onwards!-
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Skruffs Pantsman
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Skruffs Pantsman
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Still catching up - I really think directing a claimed vig towards a recruit is bad, unless we think the recruit is actually a cult leader claiming both a power role AND a recruited power role. In as much, focusing deaths on recruits helps hte cult leader get a NEW recruit. Has anyone wondered who would recruit blazerunner? Do cult leaders generally recruit people they think they can trust, or unknown pepole to distance, or what?
I need to catch up from page 9 onwards, still, I just hopped on to comment on what I see in this page.-
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Skruffs Pantsman
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Skruffs Pantsman
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Okay.
Two shooters, so mnowax as vig is legit - otherwise he would have been shot by the real vig.
Apparently blazerunner decided not to block mno after all, otherwise he would not have been shot. Am I missing something or does that make sense?
Also, Blazerunner claims to have blocked TSS night 1? That would mean Mnowax did kill DGB, or else, TSS isn't the SK, one of those two.-
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Skruffs Pantsman
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IF Mno was blocked (likely) and there are no redirectors (there aren't) then we could have up to four vigs, or a vig and two SKs (which means TSS might be an sk after all) or two vigs (who didn't go night one) and an sk.
The mod should clarify how someone will die if two cults attempt to recruit someone the same night; it seems unlikely to be burnt to a crisp OR shot, more likely some sort of heart attack or aneurism or something.
modmodmomdodmodmo-
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Skruffs Pantsman
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Another possibility is that TSS is the SK, was roleblocked, and one of hte vigs shot DGB night one.
There's no reason for a vig or an sk to hit mnowax - either he is a vig and thus can help with the cult menace, or, he is a recruit and is thus not the source of hte cult menace. Why they decided, instead, to go after a claimed recruit/roleblocker doesn't make sense, though. I Would say tha tif an SK killed last night, they probably hit blazerunner. Vikingfan's hit (to me anyways) seems more like a vig kill, even if it turned out to be bad for town. Of course, I called Vikingfan a cult all day yesterday, do.
Why do you think cultists would be likely to recruit "experienced quality players"? Wouldn't they be more likely to recruit players that can fly under the radar? and are you insinuating that I'm not cult-worthy? Considering you used your own experience with players to determine if they are culted or not, should we assume that the cult has your input in the manner?-
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Skruffs Pantsman
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Why, then, was Blaze's block of him ineffective? Blaze is confirmed pro-town roleblocker, not recruited (or was killed before recruiterd, but that doesn't effect his play yesterday) - he 'true claimed' in twilight and said he would block MNOWAX, and there is no reason to think he wouldn't do that, considering that the rest of his post was also true.Yosarian2 wrote: 2b, the one I think is most likely:Mnowax was town yesterday, and was telling the truth now. But after he claimed vig, he became a likely cult recruit. So the theory I think is most likely is:
Mnowax was pro-town yesterday
He killed Blaze last night, just like he said he would
Then he got recruited
Now that he's been recruited, he's become scum, and has decided to lie in order to try and get me lynched.
That's the most likely theory, I think.
I'm more willing to believe MNOWAX is a cult-recruiter and blazerunner was SK'd or vigged by someone else than that mnowax was recruited last night. What would it benefit the cult to recruit (Rather than vaporize) a claimed vig/sk anyways?-
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Skruffs Pantsman
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Something that *does* make sense is that Mnowax might be a cult recruiter, tried to recruit Yos, and was blocked, so failed, and took that to mean that Yos is a cult-recruiter or SK since those two factions avoid the first NK attempt on them and are also cult-immune. Doesn't mean a thing about Yos's role, though.-
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Skruffs Pantsman
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I can't figure out if hjaltill's scum partner is mnowax or yosarian.
Mnowax is saying "if you lynch me you will see I'm not lying!" Because he's inferring he would turn up town-vig.
Mnowax: I think that the consensus is that you were roleblocked and so, no matter what you are/were, you didn't try to kill anyone.
I also don't like the "I need to review, can someone tell me what to think" mindset mentioned previously on this page.-
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Skruffs Pantsman
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Skruffs Pantsman
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Interesting choice of words there.armlx wrote:[quote="HjalltiI am pretty sure mnowax is not town, and not my faction.
Mno is just being dumb and frustrated at this point, which is a pretty null tell.[/quote]
You are the one who pointed the reason out to me, armlx. Why did you forget so quickly? I also notice that other than that, you haven't said anything to or about hjallti the entire game. Why is that?-
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Skruffs Pantsman
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You are the one who pointed the reason out to me, armlx. Why did you forget so quickly? I also notice that other than that, you haven't said anything to or about hjallti the entire game. Why is that?armlx wrote:
Interesting choice of words there.Hjallti wrote:I am pretty sure mnowax is not town, and not my faction.
Mno is just being dumb and frustrated at this point, which is a pretty null tell.
Fixed, Armlx's original quote was botched a bit.-
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Skruffs Pantsman
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Skruffs Pantsman
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Amlx - you and the person he replaced also didn't discuss each other.
You quoted the thing from hjltill, didn't comment on it except to bring attention to it,a nd then questioned why someone else brought it up.
It really does not bother me if you are 'unimpressed' by me. I'm actually used to people using my 'lack of reason' as an excuse to ignore me - IF you want, I will compile a list of the percentage of people who say stuff like that and turn out ot be scum.
I am interested, not in your focus on only targeting cult-recruiters, but in your demand for significant amounts of proof from other people to explain why they are focusing on cult recruiters.
I'm kind of curious about your attitude - you seem to be rather lofty and comfortable in the position you are in. Why?
Also, you did talk about hjalltill in another post:
I think it's interesting that you have no problem criticizing other people's attempts at pushing things, but you yourself admit that you have no leads. You criticize me, apparently, for suggestuing you should 'auto-know' my reasons for doing things, but YOUR attitude is that you do not have any intentions of investigating motivations and such, yourself. Which is why I am asking if you can be so comfortable in your place in the game as to be so critical of others and unhelpful yourself.armlx wrote:Hjallti's last post is very logical, though I'm wondering how Yosarian missed his list of experienced quality players. I have a pretty good idea why this could be true, but I want to hear his answer.
The TSS being SK thing makes a lot of sense now as well given that, with Blaze's block and all.
Pretty sure mno's anti-Yos logic is just wrong.
No clue who are possible cult leaders, only some thoughts on who probably isn't.
Hjaltill - you are mirroring Armlx's opinion of me, and asking if I have any "real leads" - what does that mean? I am assuming if you have the luxury of demanding real leads, from me, that you yourself also have real leads? Could you please provide them?
Secondarily: What you should have wrote is very much different from what you did write. The first one is informative; it has two separate subjects. The revision, though, is clunky, redundant, and obtuse. Not town and thus not your faction - why would you, as town, go to the effort of putting in the equivalent of "He is not town, unlike me, who is town."
No, I don' think you mis-wrote it at all; I think you were thinking in the back of your head that he was a vying cult recruiter.
I think the reaction I got from two other players for voting Hjallti is very interesting. It might even be considered "A lead".
to both of you: If you are going to demand leads from players and dismiss them if they do not provide leads up to 'your standards', you are inherently required to provide leads, yourself. Armlx, you yourself have openly admitted you do not have any leads. Since you do not have anything to go on, you should be advancing other people's leads to see if they have merit, not trying to say they are not good enough. Unless you are scum fishing for a cop; or a cult recruit defending his recruitor.-
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Skruffs Pantsman
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I think that people, if they are going to criticize the 'quality' of other player's probings and cases, should at the very least offer their own in return.
Not doing so leads to a game of entropic destabilization.
IF one person is pushing a case, and three people hop in and say "Your reasoning is not good enough to continue pushing this case", then that player either pushes MORE, at risk of becoming an easy counter wagon, OR, they drop the case.
If the three people who say "Your reasoning is not good enough" do not offer cases of their own, then in effect, all they are doing is prohibiting the discovery of more information. they don't *know* that the lead is bad; by discouraging it, they are in fact potentially trying to protect the person that the first person is probing at.
Case in point:
Armlx murmurs about vikingfan being 'the right call', but then abruptly shifts to SpringLUllaby after a wagon formed on her. Even in defending it, he used another player's reasoning as the basis for his own vote.
So for him to attack me for not offering a good enough case, that's very, the picture I get is of a middle ages king, reclined on his thrown and being offered grapes. Should he eat these grapes? No, those are too sour. How about these? No, they haven't been skinned. Being the king, he has the luxury of only nibbling on the BEST grapes; and, obviously, he's not going to go out and PICK Them himself.
It's 'lofty', it is the only way I can use to describe it.
Or, I Guess you could say he is playing completely under the radar, which is funny because that was his reasoning for voting SL - for playing under the radar until she came under fire. Since he thought she was scum, and he is doing the same thing, he must have been attributing his own role to her.
OR maybe I'm just wildly postulating. At this point, I don't care. I'm too flashy and lynchable to be recruited by a cult, so I might as well talk my head off until the SK shoots me.-
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Skruffs Pantsman
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I'm saying that you should NOT consider yourself to be a king. You should consider yourself ot be one of the farmers who are wallowing around in the crap and harvesting grapes. If we all pluck grapes, and compare them, then yes, we can throw out the bad ones.
But the fact that my theories are the ones gettingthe most attention, as crappy as they are, suggests that there are a lot of people who are content to lay back - like you are doing - and let other people do the work.
I think that you should offer what you have, wether it's solid or not. Maybe you, even if you don't have a solid case, can see something that I have missed. That's why I am talking about what I am talking about. No, I do'nt expect anyone to be lynched off of the stuff I've said. But, maybe I've seen something about someone that others have missed; they can then look at it themselves.
You want fully developed theories and you are unwilling to help build them yourself.
I'm pretty sure that's a scumtell.-
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Skruffs Pantsman
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I agree with you, to a point. Perhaps my vote on Hjaltill isn't the strongest case in the world. Perhaps it *is* flimsy - I am not necessarily that I have a true-blue case on him. However, I do not see what gives Armlx the right to think that he can tell other people their cases suck while conveniently not contributing any of his own. What is the end result of a playstyle like that?Yosarian2 wrote:This debate is a bit silly. Skruffs, if you make a bad argument, people can, will, and should point out that it's a bad argument. That's one of the things pro-town people should pretty much always do. If you think it's bad that someone else isn't making cases of their own, and want to attack them for it, that's fine; but the fact that someone else isn't making cases is NOT a defense against you making an illogical case.
Armlx:
Way to avoid the entire rest of my post.
Vollkan:
Please show where armlx's criticizing of me reveals his reasoning. I am not saying you are wrong, I am just calling your bluff and asking you to show by example what you are saying.
I also agree that criticisms and counter criticisms are an excellent way to play the game - which is why I am pointing out that Armlx is intentionally avoiding leaving himself up to criticism by only relying on other players to provide the basis of his opinions.
Lastly: If the point is not strong and is crushed, but iut was right regardless, is it still a good thing? Because now you have three players who are not contributing of their own, and one player who no longer wants to contribute, and, presumably, there winds up being a nolynch. Or, since only one player has offered an opinion, the other three would eventually wind up lynching that player - since there is no reason to lynch one of their own. I'm just extrapolating your "it's all good" scenario.
Beep! Beep! - Oh hi, this will be fun.
springlullaby - Oh hi, this will be fun.
Two of my still-alive players from Contagion. These two lovely ladies know how to go the distance in forum games.-
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Skruffs Pantsman
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No, he said my reasons weren't good enough. So I Asked him where his reasons were and pointed out that he has been tailcoating on other people the entire game. You defended him by saying that people criticizing other people shows their reasons.vollkan wrote:
Don't try and be clever. He called you out asking you toVollkan:
Please show where armlx's criticizing of me reveals his reasoning. I am not saying you are wrong, I am just calling your bluff and asking you to show by example what you are saying.
I also agree that criticisms and counter criticisms are an excellent way to play the game - which is why I am pointing out that Armlx is intentionally avoiding leaving himself up to criticism by only relying on other players to provide the basis of his opinions.present reasonsand you declined. In effect, you insulated yourself from criticism. Asking me to show where he criticised your reasons isprima faciea disingenuous question. You weren't arguing about each other'sreasons- you were arguing about yourlack ofreasons.
But, of course, don't get me wrong. If armlx plagiarised your reasons I would take him to task for it. If he criticised your reasons in a dodgy manner - that too I would take him to task for.
I then asked to prove by example, showing me where Armlx's reasonings were, and you admitted he had none by saying "Don't try to be clever.' I looked at Armlx and tried to find his reasons in the way you said I Would, I Couldn't, I asked you to, calling your bluff, and now I'm 'trying to be clever'. But it seems to me that you used an empty excuse to defend him with.
ANd, no, actually... HE was arguing with the QUALLITY of my reasons for attacking Hjlltill, but I at least presented mine. If you want to call them flawed, that's fine. But Armlx is hte one with his own reasons for doing things, and you still haven't asked my questions; instead you just reacted with a (I think) very defensive blustery post.
So again: Please, vollkan, show me where you can see Armlx's reasoning?
You also say that his criticism can help find scum: When one person tells another their case is flawed, it only makes the original player look bad for attempting to scumhunt. If nobody else is trying to scum hunt, then the original player winds up getting lynched for 'flawed scum hunting', like I mentioned earlier.
I do'nt know if that was in this game though, because in basically all of my games I have simultaneously had people use a basic "Skruffs makes no sense" default argument against anything I say - I even changed my location to reflect that, a week or two. I do'nt know why, because I *am* earnestly doing my best in all of my games, and yet it seems that word is getting around that a quick and easy way to discredit me is just to say I don't make sense.
Anyways, that aside...
Vollkan, you said you could see Armlx's reasoning in his criticism of me and when I Asked you to prove it you got snippy. I'm going to ask again to explain armlx's reasoning based on the posts he had that led you to say that in the first place. And if you want to say I am getting clever, then remember that YOU are the one who introduced that as a form of defense for Armlx.
Also: I am criticizing Armlx for not trawling the thread for evidence, and he is criticizing me for not trawling the thread WELL enough.
and
"If I were to implant myself as one of the three, for instance: If it dawned on me that somebody was not pulling their weight, then I would pounce on them. "
So you think I am not pulling my weight, but he is, right? Because you are focusing on me and not him. Please explain where he pulled enough weight for you to take his side against me.-
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Skruffs Pantsman
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Beep! Beep! - It's just business as usual.Me vs da woild. It's a cult game, I was hoping to replace in as a cult recruitor, I wound up not. My personality is going to scare away any hopes of being recruited, so I expect to be SK'd, Vig'd, or microwaved tonight or tomorrow night. But at least I'm leaving a niec public trail for investigation into later! Trying to out the scum.-
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Skruffs Pantsman
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Skruffs Pantsman
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The thing is; his whole point, underneath the "your reasoning is not sufficent" is that *I* need to convince *HIM* of a point, and that he feels no impetus as a player to convince anyone else of HIS point.
IF nobody is making ANY points, why would i, as 'potential scum', draw attention to myself by bringing up a dodgy case? IF I say nothing, it is likely that Mnowax or someone else gets lynched.
As it is, you yourself have already started to push the wagon onto me, which is exactly what I predicted - in an absence of anyone else scum hunting, the person who scumhunts at all, weakly, winds up being the main target. I was aware of that before I even voted hjltill.
I understand that you think my vote on Hjaltill makes him not at all more scummy.
However, I do'nt see where you have analyzed Amrlx at all in explaining what his reasoning is. His reasoning was that my post ewas insubstantial: Well, that's great, I'm glad you figured that out, considering that was basically the first line of his post.
Now show me where armlx stands, other than what I have pointed out: That he expects others to provide reasoning for him to follow without providing any of his own.
Has his words and/or actions suggested otherwise?
You are arguing that I have a crap case, that's fine. A crap case can lead to a good case, or a counter case, or something else. Instead of working with the crap case to put pressure or investigation onto Hjaltill, who is in fact no longer inthe game after a single vote against him which was angrily criticized by more players than any other single vote has done in the game so far, or to examine the players that seem to have a vested interest in defending hjaltill, you are working to argue against hte premise that a case is crap, should be stopped, and that the player who posted it is likely scum.
I apparently opened a can of worms: And you have provided to me reasoning as well. IF Hjaltill DOES turn out to be a cult recruiter later in the game, I really hope that the reactions he got from my vote on him leads players to inspect both armlx and yourself. But, at your request, and armlx, I will
Unvoteand look for a 'logical case' that will appease Your Lordships to the point that you wuil not criticize me for ACTUALLY TRYING To find scum.
You guys can just, I dunno, continue to yell at people for not satisfy your demands. HAve fun with that.-
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Skruffs Pantsman
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Yes, but you forget, armlx only wants cases against players if they are based on finding cult recruiters,a nd no others. He also apparently has no way of discerning wether someone is a cult recruitor or not.the silent speaker wrote:Skruffs, why is it owed to you to "work with the crap case to put pressure on Hjallti"? Why is he more worthy of being pressured than, say, Occult? Especially since, and here's the point you're missing, from the standpoint of any third party the fact that crap cases are being made against Hjallti in the first place may suggest that scum wants him dead. Now I don't think this is a strong point against in this game -- for one thing, more unrecruitables are scum themselves than town, and there's not that much reason to want people gone for their rasoning at this point in this game if they aren't unrecruitable -- but armlx isn't completely wrong.
My main suspect from yesterday was Occult, and I still think that is a fruitful line, For the other? Idunno. I'll need to separate vikingfan and vollkan in my head to better sort out what each one said yesterday (I'm sure I suspected viking, who is now dead town, but I may have been wary of vollkan out of misattribution). But vollkan is right about the 'conspiracy theory' objection.
I picked Hjaltill because until I voted him, he hadn't really been part of hte scene. Now I know the players who didn't like the idea of voting him. Like I said, if he turns up as a cult recruiter, this will look badly on the others.
Why was your suspicions on OCcult yesterday? And apparently the opinion you have of him hasn't been editted or revised based on the additional information we have on three(?) other player's roles since you were first suspicion of him, so it must be pretty strong.
I'm not saying you don't have a rason or anything, but I Think if you are going to criticize me for 'having a crap case', and then you just say that occult is suspicious iwth no backup, that's being hypocritical. I'm sure, though, that is not the case... so why not share your suspicions? Update the rest of hte players int he game with why you want to focus on Occult.-
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Skruffs Pantsman
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Beep! Beep! - do you think mnowax is a cultist, SK, vig, or cult-recruiter?mnowax wrote: Note the italicized. He makes sure that he lets us know that both a vig and a SK exists. This is not an open game, were not sure of the existence of the roles. How did he find out this information? No i am not a tracker. No i am not a watcher or alarmist. I am a Vig. I didn't kill last night because i wanted to make sure i had a kill for night one of this game. Therefore, There IS a SK in this game as well as me, and although there will be an attempt to kill me, i will finish off Blaze in the night. If i happen to get recruited, i will spout the name of my leader immediately, So if you don't want me around, you must kill me. I only say this because were getting close to lynch( i believe) and i want all my information out on the table before i die.-
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Skruffs Pantsman
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Also, I wanted to turn this around:the silent speaker wrote:Skruffs, why is it owed to you to "work with the crap case to put pressure on Hjallti"?
Why are you not asking Armlx, "Armlx, why is it owed to you to "have cases made for you"?"
When someone says that other peole have to vye for his vote, he is effectively saying he has no intentions of trying ot help town.
NabNab, thanks for the vouch to my character. While I do feel my honor is slighted I am not actively trying to defend it. I generally put out cases that probably don't hold water - I can at least admit that. But I think it's incredibly scummy for someone to focus on players putting out fake cases, demanding more from them *And not offering cases of their own* - they put themselves in a position of zero risk by trying to get other players to do their dirty work - and taking on the burden of being a target if their dirty work is wrong or accurate - for them. That's a technique I Think a cult -recruitor would want to try, to try and get peoplpe not in his faction arguing against each other while he quietly recruits on the side.
Anyways, I'll try to lay off of that angle but I Think it *is* something that is being ignored/overlooked.-
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Skruffs Pantsman
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Skruffs Pantsman
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Thanks for the check through for me, armlx, nab.
Nab: Was that directed at me? If so, why?
TSS: I disagree. I haven't compared the 'validity' of voting Hjltill for his grammar slip up to other votes people have had today (or day one), but I did notice that the reaction was immediate and kind of unexpected. Wether it was a fake case or not, I think there were reactions that should be noted IF hjtill shows up as scum later on in the game.
Welcome to the game Quinton.-
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Skruffs Pantsman
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My point is that someone who is criticizing another for 'not pulling their own weight', and is at the same time is relying on other people to form cases FOR THEM to review, is in fact criticizing OTHER players for not pulling THEIR OWN weight.
Town should never depend on other players to make cases FOR Them. Scum do that. Town doesn't have the luxury of knowing who to trust.-
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Skruffs Pantsman
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Skruffs Pantsman
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You got that wrong. I *never* have to legetimize a rejection of someone else's demand that I do ANYTHING for them. I have no obligation to do ANYTHING for armlx or anyone else who tells me to make cases for them to follow. What you should have said was that him not pulling his own weight does not justify me making dodgy cases, which would actually have applied, IF he had demanded I make a case before I made a dodgy one.vollkan wrote:
I think what you meant to say is that someone who is criticising other people for not pulling their weight whilst, simultaneously, relying on others for cases to review is not pulling their weight.Skruffs wrote: My point is that someone who is criticizing another for 'not pulling their own weight', and is at the same time is relying on other people to form cases FOR THEM to review, is in fact criticizing OTHER players for not pulling THEIR OWN weight.
I agree. I don't see the relevance of that though. We have:
1) You making a dodgy case and not 'pulling your weight'
2) Armlx making scant contribution other than criticising your case's lack of 'weight'
Neither of those is a good thing, and neither justifies the other. Armlx not pulling his weight does not legitimise you rejecting his "demand for significant amounts of proof from other people".-
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Skruffs Pantsman
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Someone else insinuated I Was defending my honor, not me. My post was reflecting on that suggestion and seeing if it held any truth.springlullaby wrote:Hi, sorry, been busy.
First, mnowax, what's up with the big red X?
Second, where does the TSS is an SK talk comes from?
Now, I think Skruff's full fledged 'I'm defending my honor' post is definitively off. Only, why do you guys who have been needling at him extensively haven't voted him?
Also, what struck me at the end of D1, when I realized that I had possibly misinterpreted stuff, were the people 'on my side'. Skruff kinda counts in that category. So does aioqwe, I'd like him to explain this:
beep beep, if you say that armlx is not scum, what do you think of what she's been saying about me/my predecessor?aioqwe wrote:The more this continues the more inclined I am to believe armlx/yos. Personally I wouldn't call it mindless puppy following. That's more like people who just pop in to post QFT! or whatever.
Vote: skruff
WHy the vote, all of a sudden?
Yos:
I will try not to rehash what I've said over and over again; obviously my poisiont in this argument is my own and I'm not going to bend to the will of other people.
Regardless of the reasoning of why I voted Hjtill, I think that some of the reactions I got were more vested in defending him then they should have been. Vollkan and Armlx, to be precise, attacked my case while at the same time,a nd I've pointed this out, offering none of hteir own. Their intentions, to me, seemed clear : They were defending Hjltill and had no obvious (to me) reason to be doing so.
If Hjltill was a cult recruiter, that would explain their actions. If they were all masons together, I do not see why they would out all of themselves to defend another - even if Hjltill was the steadfast mason, sacrificing the entire group to save one doesn't make sense.
Hjltill quickly resigned from the game afterwards, and has not been replaced, I do not think. I do not know if that means anything in regards to his alignment, or not, but if he was a cult recruiter and armlx and vollkan are his recruits, then if I was in his shoes, then it would seem VERY obvious to me what was going on and I would understand him wanting to replace out rather than giving up on a lost cause. He's not a very experienced player so he may nto realize that there are things called 'rebounds'.
I think that regardless of my own feelings of Hjltill, that I have received some recent attention that is probably NOT from his organization (if there is one and I am right), but may be from other players who want to keep attention on those three players after I die. This entire statement is based more on 'a hunch' and emotions and what I see those interactions as causing, but I could be wrong.
Was anyone in this game Scum in "Assasins in the Palace"? Because the situation is reversed here. In this game, there are (possibly) "kings" (cult recruitors) who are guarding themselves with more and more bodyguards. All of the rest of us are 'assassins' (except without the nifty-death-vengeful-stuff) who are trying to find out who the kings are.
Can anyone offer any pointers?-
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Skruffs Pantsman
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Skruffs Pantsman
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Skruffs Pantsman
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The reason I ask is because I just explained why I think it's likely he is a cult recruit (Along with you, no less) and that I think he is defending his cult recruitor. What about him has given you the impression that he is more likely a cult recruitor than Hjtlill? I ask you personally because you have been using that as your solo guiding point in whether or not someone is scum.-
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Skruffs Pantsman
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The only good meta on me is that townie players who play with me for the first time always misconstrue me as scum, and scum players (especially those who have played with me before) always try to capitalize on it.
That said, I sense a growing, condensing cloud of anti-skruffs sentiment, and SL has abanbdoned posting in the game, apparently, since I Asked her to explain why she voted me out of the blue and that was a day or two ago. Now she posted in two other games since then (on tuesday) but has avoided or forgotten about this one. SL has played in games with me before; so I'm more curious about it than anything else. She's picked up on armlx vollkan and yosarian's goadings and was trying to be the first on the wagon. Anyways, paranoia aside, let's look at the rest of this..
I like how armlx is goading vollkan into voting me or else getting voted himself.
I like how vollkan and armlx both already 'knew' that hjltll was town before I even voted him, which is why they defended him so stringently in the first place, and yet neither of them can concisely explain why.
I don't agree with you there; I pointed out that someone who spends their time trying to dismiss other players arguments without offering counter arguments: Just saying "Not good enough for me", in short - was not good. He has every right to question my argument - But he wasn't questioning it. There was no curiosity there. He was not questioning it. HE WAS SAYING IT WAS NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR HIM and dropping it. Very different. I don't like how you haven't picked up on that yet. Or, if you have, why you are trying to make the situation look different than it was.Yosarian2 wrote: The thing is, Skruffs, when someone attacks your argument, you basically have two options. You can either defend your ARGUMENT, continue to argue that it is valid despite their objections, or you can drop or downplay your argument and move on to something else. What you did was to basically question someone else's right to question your argument, and that's not only badly logically flawed, it would be bad stratagy.
EVery time he said ! to me, I replied with B - you are not attacking him for constantly bringing up the same point, so why are you directing it solely at me? And actually, I have attempted to move past it - but then when I do, other players move it RIGHT BACK to where it was and try to keep it there. You didn'tYosarian2 wrote: And then you kept arguing the point endlessly, even though you were, well, pretty much wrong; everyone has the right to question anything said by anything else, or else the game of mafia dosn't really work well. Frankly the whole "argument about arguing about arguments" was so drawn out and pointless it kind of make me forget what your origional argument was in the first place, and I honeslty don't really care anymore either.
Well, I think regardless of if you think it's a scum tell in any case, that you are misconstruing the situation anyways, so iti's nto a valid tell, non tell, scum tell, town tell, or anything.Yosarian2 wrote: I don't really think that's a scum tell in your case, but I don't think the argument is helpful, and you (and the town) would have been better off if you had either kept it on a relevent topic "like "is X scum", or else if you had just dropped it.
Are you saying that I should have kept it on the topic of "Is Hjltill scum?" Because I have been doing that - I used the information that my vote created, I analyzed it, and I have explained why I think it's likely that hjltilll is scum. Different case, but based on the information gathered from the 'first instance'. If I had just dropped it, then I wouldn't be scum hunting, I'd be random voting. So actually, regardless of the flak I am getting, and wether I am following yours or anyone elses' 'rules of scumhunting', I think I am doing things just the way I do things, and that's really the only way that *i* can be confident that what I am doing is 'working'.
Vollkan:
You are telling me to "admit that I am wrong". You seem to "know" that hjlktill is not a scum recruitor, and I Am glad that YOU, in whatever role you are, KNOW that to be the case. Basically the same thing goes to you as what I just said to Yosarian2. Your biggest criticism of me seems to be that I am not posting a case, when in fact, the 'case' I posted, which you immediately scorned, has generated a GOOD bit of discussion with at least half the players in the game involved. You think I am obstinant and that I "defend the undefendable" - I really don't think that voting Hjltilll for saying "this guy is not town and he's not part of my faction" was an UNDEFENDABLE vote. I think that, in the situation we were in, with the discussion that was going on; IE was mnowax stupid roleblocked town vig or recruited successful vig - was basically an exercise in WIFOM that wasn't going to result ina cult recruiter being lynched, regardless.
Hjltill said that, it was brought up, I put a vote on him and almost immediately afterwards, he replaced out of the game, fuming.
Springlullaby comes in, votes me without really explaining why, and you are still attacking me for what you see as an 'undefendable' vote.
I think you are exaggerating what you see as a point against me (that I voted without a proper case behind it) to such a degree that I will no longer be seen as credible, and if I wind up getting lynched, YOU will no longer be seen as credible. Since I think you are playing fall guy for Springlullabye - and Armlx is helping you with that by deflecting attention onto you instead of her - then even if you get lynched tomorrow (Which would be unlikely) you still have other players on your team.
See originally you said that the whole reason you were attacking me was because you didn't like the way I presented the case. But now... now you are saying that you think Hjltill is town, and that's why you are defending him. But if you really thought he was town, wouldn't the smart thing to do, would have been to defend him in the first place, instead o attacking me for not having 'a good case' on him? By attacking me directly instead of defending him, you were saying you didn't want to be publicly tied to him. But now you've turned up the heat, now you are publicly tying yourself to hjltill/ SL, by saying you thought he/she was town all along - which is not something you said originally - you actually left your OWN feeling/thoughts about hjtill/SL out of the arguments when you first started attacking me. Maybe it's because you feel SL is town that you have completely ignored that she voted me without posting reasons - which was the first reason you state as deciding to go against me in the first place. Maybe since you already 'know' she's 'town', you've already reasoned that it's OMGUS and thus not worthy of pursuing?
As for not voting: I avoided voting when I Was mafia in pirates vs ninjas because I Thought it would keep attention off of me and would prevent other scum groups from NKing me. But it drew the attention of the vig.
Look:
Look at what hjallti is doing in this quote. HE starts it off by saying that Mnowax is not town andHjallti wrote:???? If you don't want to play the game ask replacement don't self-vote, it is completely not in favour of your own faction.
I am pretty sure mnowax is not town, and not my faction. He played bad throughout, so bad blazerunner got spoked and started to act weird itself. But this is beyond it.
Look mnowax, you committed to a game of mafia. betrayal, suspicion, unbelieve are part of the very mechanics of the game, if you are not up to being disbelieved and called a liar, then you ought not to play this kind of game. I don't think it is fun the way you are acting now. As said before I can see how you could have wrongly concluded on Yosarian2 if you indeed tried to attack him, but the way you react to the people showing your mistake could be labelled as inmature, caught or stubborn, but it is hurting town anyway.
I also don't like why your vote stays on Yosarian2, it looks like you considering it now as a randomvote, and only in the very first pages a random vote can be benificial for town, I would like to see you removing it. I don't claim here I know Yosarian2 to be town, I only don't think there is reason to suspect him more than anyone else.not in his faction.Okay, if you want to say that that was just him being belgian and poorly grasping the english language, that's fine. But look at the rest of the post.
He tells Mnowax that voting himself HURTS his faction; he tells him that he is committed to the game.
THen he goes on to say why he thinks Mnowax is scum. If you look at what he said and try to picture why he would intentionally say that, you get the impression, in my eyes at least (because there are some very vocal people here that don't think I can see anything) that Hjltill has some sort of investment in keeping Mnowax alive. MNOWAX's self destruction at the beginning of the day might be the result of a player who has just been recruited. IF a recruited player sacs themself at the beginning of each day, the cult leader is always safe.
However if Mnowax is doing that he's also forgetting therte might be a secondary cult -on ethat will win by numbers alone if the first cult keeps getting sacced.
Anyways, it hurts my head too much to think about but I think that Hjllti's disclaimer at hte beginning of the post, which is the only thing that has been focused on, is much more relevant if you look at how he talks to Mnowax and his opinions of mnowax through the rest of the game.
Personally, if scum wants to self destruct, I Would say Let them! Help them!
2) If you remember correctly, I pointed out that armlx was making no moves of his own to catch scum, and was merely denegrating the attempts of toehrs at doing so. HE was asking other people to provide reasonings for him to vote, adn not looking for any himself. You may say that that is evasive, bu regardless of my own involvement in the situation, it is still the truth. IF you take out what I said about him, and looked at what he has said, that statement holds true. If it was said defensively, it does not make the statement less true.
3) Please show me where I was wrong to vote hjllti.
I like how armlx says that vollkan is scummy for not voting me, and then says that it makes him look like he is testing the waters - however I have no doubt that if vollkan voted me (Adn with Yosarian's 'deadline is upon us' paranoia inducement) that he would be the third or fourth person on that wagon.
SlySly: Was that really the entire thing you had to say about me in regards to that post? A cynical comment about me rehashing something? The post was in response to another player - I introduced a lot of new content, and YES, I did repeat myself in one sentence. Why did you ignore everything else and focus on the one repitition of what was already said?
Again, this sounds the same as Yosarian from earlier on in this post, saying I'm not letting go of something but at the same time ignoring everything else I've said that ISN'T about that thing.
Who's the ones not letting go?
And lastly:
A person who is playing an alt can have 100 posts and come across as very mature, another player can put in 5000 posts and not change a single bit in their playstyle. Does being experienced mean being a better scum hunter? Armlx, you were playing on this site a year and a half (almost) before me: but I have 1500 more posts than you in games. Does that mean you are a better scum hunter or does that mean I am a better scum hunter?
The answer is: It doesn't mean jack shit.
If it does mean jack shit, then at what point between 3500 and 5000 posts does someone begin to actually scum hunt for cult recruiters? You've been hiding behind "We must find cult leaders" the entire game, and now that we are close to deadline you seem to have completely abandoned that tactic.-
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Skruffs Pantsman
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And yet again you ignore everything except the parts that are talking abou the parts you apparently hate so much to read. Do you have nothing else to comment on anything I've said that is NOT rehashing? No? Okay.SlySly wrote:Let the rehashing continue...
Seems like I have heard this in this game already about 400 times.skruffs wrote: I don't agree with you there; I pointed out that someone who spends their time trying to dismiss other players arguments without offering counter arguments
Skruffs, word count does not = relevance. Post count does not = contribution.
High word count, especially when starting EVERY post off with the same unimportant argument just increases the odds that no one is going to put forth the effort into reading what you have to say. Take your posts out of this game, and this game is 8 pages shorter without significant loss of relevant content.
I find myself wanting to vote you out just so this game will be a much smoother read and easier for everyone to follow.Fos.
If you think that the cult leaders are not going to be trying to kill right now, and you knew that the CLs kill by frying - and yet there was no indication that there had been any fryings - what was the point of bringing this up in the first place?SlyLSly wrote: Everyone seems to be missing the possibility that the Cult Leader(s) could have killed during the night instead of recruiting.Fos: again. The only reason I fos was because of your reaction to hearing there were no doctors in this game : I think you were trying to set up a doctor claim.
SL:
What I said in that paragraph was the truth: I don't see how saying the ttruth about current game situations (Something that could have been verified by reading other games) is worthy of a vote. I don't see how it makes me scummy in this game. You did no meta analysis at all but rather blindly voted me because I Was defending myself in a way that you partook as a meta. THat's crazy, too, because the same thing (gasp) happened in other games. Then you say I am fos-worthy, or pinging, because I am not metaing you enough to be thorough - Which is hilarious because you are fossing me in the first place for metaing myself in a way you don't want to bother confirming!!!FosYou can't have your cake and eat it too. Why is this game less of a priority than those other two?
As for hte english thing: It's redundant, there are two statements made and presumably each one is distinctive and unique or else they wouldn't be made. I think Hjllti was distancing himself from a cult-recruit that he didn't recruit.
NabNab:
What leads you to think I am the kind of player who makes long winded and confusing posts in an attempt to confuse and stall the town, wether I Am town or as scum? You should remember from Big Love mafia (where I Was scum) that I play scum very different as town. Usually as mafia I :teach: town how to catch me, and my scum buddies. I quasi bus my teammates a lot, without actually voting them.
Sidenote:
I do'nt think Mnowax targetted Blazerunner. Even if he did, I think blaze blocked him. I think that whoever DID shoot blazerunner, whether they are town or sk, was an idiot. If they are an SK and not TSS, then they killed DGB too, which is another stupid choice (Because DGB is a liability to a cult, so she's not likely to be recruited).
Vote : Vollkan
While I don't think Vollkan is a Cult Rcruitor, if he turns up as a cultist, it puts a lot of weight behind my theory regarding him and SL. Considering how some players are trying to coerce other players into voting me, I'm also going to vote him because it makes it more likely he gets lynched than me, at this point.-
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Skruffs Pantsman
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Right now, there are potentially 6 out of 12 players who are cult.
Tomorrow, it could be as much as 8 out of 10.
I don't think a mass claim is in order, but messing around with claimed power roles isn't going to reveal a cult recruiter. Mnowax is either going to be shot, burned, recruited, etc, but unless we think he's a recruitor he's not worth going after.
I think armlx is acting very peculiarly, especially in the last two or so days.-
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Skruffs Pantsman
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Skruffs Pantsman
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SlySly: Thanks for the detailed, constructive response. I will try to digest it without providing knee jerk responses. I still think that it's being assumed that Hjllti wasn't making a mistake, and when you look at that post, it puts the mistake in context, but if you assume that Hjllti is not scum then my vote for him is in fact in error. I'll read and provide a response.
Springlullabye:
Allright, what kind of meta would you prefer I use? IS there non-vague metas on players? If so, can you provide examples? Also, can you prove that the meta I used was false, or is it your opinion that it is false?
2) When I first criticized your vote on me, I didn't realize you had realized Hjllti. I now realize it was just OMGUS. So I won't argue this.
3) How repeated is it? How many times have I offered that argument up vs how many times have other people brought it up and I have replied to it?-
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Skruffs Pantsman
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Look, if MNOwax is a vig, he's not going to get recruited now anyways.
He's very very likely to be crisped or shot in one of the upcoming nights - if he can't be recruited then he's an enemy of hte cults. IF he's a cult recruitor, then he would have no reason to even say the correct person he targeted the next day - Yosarian2 is through and through a red herring, at least as far as MNOWAX's claim is concerned. He was roleblocked, he didn't target anyone, so wether he is town or scum, Yosarian was not targetted by him. If he's scum, we can't even believe that he was accurate;y claiming who he targeted. The only way he could have actually targetted would be fi someone ELSE who was a roleblcoker though Blaze was a cult recruiter, and blocked HIM. That's not come up, yet, I don't htink, and it really shouldn't unless that is exactly what happened. However, a roleblocker can't comeout with that anywyas, because that means he is no longer useful to town.
Armlx, I hate to say this, because it's' coming from ME and all, but it sounds like you are trying to make this work with your theory, and not looking at all the pieces - if that makese sense. We have to look at all the pieces and see what THEY tell us, not try to arrange the pieces to get them to say what we want.-
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Skruffs Pantsman
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MNOWAX is way too public a figure to be recruited now. Cult recruiters are trying to recruit people who A) are going to help their side win and B) are not going to get killed in doing so. So reasonable, pro-town, nonbelligerent targets are very likely the targets, NOT claimed power roles. It's just too risky.armlx wrote:Skruffs:
1) How couldn't mno be recruited if he's a vig? I'm confused as to what you are saying here.
2) He has reason to claim the right target as there's possibly a tracker and getting caught in a lie = awkward. Though that does bring up a question.
MOD, if a tracker targets someone who is RB'ed, do they see them targeting the person they intended to target or see them doing nothing.
SL:
Soirry, missed your post, reacting now.
For some reason, I had a feeling that you DID play in a game with me, because I thought I had recruited you after that game to play in Contagion. I replaced you in methodical mafia, and I think you were in a newbie game that I modded. I must have gotten the impression that we'd played together from a combination of those two games. I think I Thought you were in big brother with me, but that was actually farside22.
I rescind that you should 'know' about that meta on me, you haven't played with me before, so you shouldn't necessarily know that.
That aside, is there any part of your post that you wanted me to refer to? The meta is still pretty accurate, even if it doesn't apply to you as scum, in this situation.-
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Skruffs Pantsman
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If he's a non-recruited vig, why destroy a power role?
If he's a recruit, why 'waste' a lynch on him; for every recruit that is killed, there is possibly two more being made the next night..
If he's SK, why get rid of a Known anti-town role that can't be recruited and thus has to try to help town kill cult recruiters.
And if he's a cult recruitor, the SKs and cult recruitors BOTH want to kill him, he is an emergent threat specifically against the both of those other factions, as well as town, so it is likely that one of them are going to bite the bullet nad aim for him tonight.
My point is NOT that he will die anywyas so why bother lynching him, it's that he's been sufficiently outed that he can NO LONGER win as scum and if he IS town we shouldn't waste a lynch on him.-
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Skruffs Pantsman
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Skruffs Pantsman
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Skruffs Pantsman
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IT looks like a three way tie with Vollkan, MNOWAX, and me, with me as the up-and-coming lynch target since I Think I have the most people quietly trying to coerce others to vote me AND I am actively criticizing one of the other wagons.
I think Vollkan would be a cult recruit lynch,a nd I think MNOWAX would be a vig-lynch, and if you want me to claim, tell me to, don't just put votes on me.
Yes, Cow, I noticed how you just snuck that on there. Please, in addition to my last post, explain the explicit reasons that made you vote me so that it can be recorded for posterity.-
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Skruffs Pantsman
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Skruffs Pantsman
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Yos, you are one of the persons who I was referring to as trying to Coerce people into putting their votes where their mouth is, and as far as I am aware, only people who were suspicious of me. Unvoting vollkan make it more likely l am lynched, especially chasing after a cow lynch so late in the game, especially after cow puts a vote on me as your reasoning. Do you want me to be lynched? If so, and you are town, why the underhanded maneuvering?-
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Skruffs Pantsman
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Yos:
But you didn't post a significant case against CKD, which means your vote is effectively a throwaway vote: Nobody is going to follow it. Unless CKD responds (and he probably won't or he would have put more in the post in which he voted me) nobody is going to pay any attention to it until tomorrow, after someone has been lynched. Do you think Vollkan is more likely town than I am? If so, then your vote is justified. If not, then you should be voting me.
*I* would vote for CKD, and was even tempted to, but unvoting someone who has more votes than me is effectively making the votes on me stronger. And I know you know this because you got an award for exactly the kind of stuff I am asking you why you are doing.
I do agree cow's vote was completley oppurtunistic, and I Would not be surprised if he turned out to be a recruit or recruiter or SK, he's been one of the players flying under the radar. But there's not enough impetus at this stage to get him lynched and there's not really a case against him.
I *will* vote hop if I have to, to try to get someone other than me lynched, although I haven't done so to MNOWAX because of the reasons I listed above.
Lastly, your comment that the world doesn't revolve around me is very troublesome. I pointed out how your action directly affects me. Saying that the world doesn't revolve around me as a response is basically agreeing with what I asked: You are writing me off, or something. You have just said that you aren't particularly suspicious of me, and I just pointed out how what you did is indirectly helping to get me lynched. So, yes, the world does revolve around me, at least in regards to who you are voting for. It's not being self-absorbed to point out what people are doing that leads to your own lynching.
We have four days. At T-3 days, I will claim if I have to, but I Am going to be very suspicious of any players who jump on this offer JUST to make me claim.-
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Skruffs Pantsman
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I am *not* Claiming a watcher that targetted Yosarian or Mnowax if that is what you are asking. I don't know why the roleblocker stops the action but not the targetting, every other instance I have done (including my own mini game where there was a watcher, tracker, and roleblocker) the roleblocker wouuld completely prevent a player from doing ANYTHING.. otherwise a paranoid gun owner would be able tokill someone who hadn't actually done anything to them. Regardless, no, I did not mean to consstrue that I have any proof that Mnowax tried to target anyone, and I'm pretty sure my post in full context would confirm that.SlySly wrote:
Skruffs, did I misinterpret your statement?armlx wrote:1) Skruffs did not claim watcher. He was using the phrase differently then you are interpreting it.
2) Norinel confirmed if a person is RB'ed and watched it looks like they targeted who they intended, just the ability didn't work.
Armlx, if I understood Skruffs correctly and he isn't lying, mnowax didn't target anyone. Your #2 confirms what I am saying. If mnowax is a recruiter and was watched, blocked or not, the action would have been seen. Since no action was seen, I find the possibility of mnowax being a recruiter very slim as recruiters aren't just going to take a night off.
If it turns out Skruffs is lying, my suspicion of mnowax would immediately return as mno's claims have seemed pretty far fetched to me so far in this game.
You are suggesting I Am lying about something that I have never even said. Even if you thought I had said that, WHY WOULD YOU 'out' me as a watcher? And for no reason than to confirm something that is already public information, jsut not confirmed?-
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Skruffs Pantsman
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Skruffs Pantsman
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