Alisae V Pine: Trees Apparently Make Good Treestumps

[jjh927]

Like, the fruit eaters could skew the numbers on parity in the traditional scum wincon somehow, for example. Which would mean we'd want to stack up fruit on the same people to minimise the effect, if possible.

But on the opposite end of the theorising, eating multiple fruit could also plausibly cause death. Which makes stacking fruit bad.

But I think the main downside of the fruit is related to the scum wincon, because it'd be a good reason for that scumflip not including your wincon.

[jjh927]

I'll phrase up a question that represents my suspicions of the link between the fruit and your wincon in such a way that you'd have to answer it truthfully

What will you want in return for answering it?

[jjh927]

Did you get any extra info about how the mechanic works?

[jjh927]

If not, and unless some tortured soul wants to tell us the scum wincon, this is good tinfoil and I'm going to wear my hat with pride

[jjh927]

As a preliminary offer for the question answer, I am willing to respond to the worst's query with an infographic

[jjh927]

Darn

[jjh927]

One of these days I'll be bang on with some dumb shit like this and it'll be great

[jjh927]

Do people who eat fruit get a macho modifier because an apple a day keeps the doctor away?

[jjh927]

Okay I am awake again so I think it's infographic time

[jjh927]

VOTE: Ari

Ari or xof today

[jjh927]

That pagetop is looking pretty close and my infographic is looking pretty complete.

[jjh927]

jjh take a screenshot w your brain because after Pine's response I'd like as much detail as possible on how you reached this theory ahead what your motive is in asking about it.

[jjh927]

How'd that white line get there

oh well

[jjh927]

Also I would like to make it clear that I believe the only valid use of the phrase scum equity is if you follow it with a chart

[jjh927]

I didn't see the replacement announcement, nor do I know who Nacho is

[jjh927]

Yo Alisae you definitely need to make a list of people who can ask for this one

[jjh927]

Oh we absolutely can't let Pine just give it out, so someone has gotta ask

But we obviously need regulation on that

[jjh927]

What happens to people who eat more than 1 fruit

[jjh927]

Pine I mean do people explode when they eat two fruits or w/e

[jjh927]

I directed the shot at a Mason, actually

For the last time,

Kill: A Mason

is not a valid nightkill submission.

Is there a Scummie for "Opposite of Modfather"?

I've had an idea in mind for an opt-in opposite of the scummies for a while

I think we were calling it the muckies

[jjh927]

Yeah that's always been the difficulty, but it's why it's opt-in. I have a bunch of awards I dug up here:

Spoiler: Muckies

Gamewide Group Awards: These are awarded to groups of players for events that took place over the course of a game.
Town of Salem Award: Worst town performance
Don Poorlyone: Worst scum performance
Revolving door slot award: Awarded to all players of a slot that underwent many replacements

Gamewide Individual Awards: These are awarded to a single player for events that took place over the course of a game.
Zatoichi award: Worst vigilante performance
Animal Crossing Villager award: Most pocketed player

Incidental Awards: These are awarded to individual players for an event within a single game.
Dunning Kruger Award: Most incorrect post
Drunk in Charge Award: Worst hammer vote
Cassandra Award: Worst mislynch
Skull Motif: Most obvscum post
Memeable event: For an event that was particularly memeable.
Shotput Award: Worst town gamethrow
Jorji Costava Award: Worst fakeclaim

Moderator Awards: These are awarded to moderators.
Moderator Malpractice Suit: Funniest modding error
I'm not a fucking wizard: Worst implementation of a role
Abnormal Review Group Approval: Most imbalanced game

[jjh927]

Is he though

[jjh927]

You can help each other sort reads in the main thread though

[jjh927]

I mean

[jjh927]

I'm just intrigued by Pine using statistics when he knows the answers

[jjh927]

Ari thoughts on me right now

[jjh927]

Any detail beyond that you have just changed your read? Because I would expect you to have changed your read as either alignment

[jjh927]

Spoiler:

[jjh927]

If I were a hider in this game, I'd have crumbed it to Alisae and only Alisae would know about it, and I'd try to outsource my thinking to Alisae by asking for a list of targets

[jjh927]

Hypotheticals are kinda pointless on this front though. There is no clear crumb. No use crying over wasted guilties

[jjh927]

Yo ali I'm gonna figure out a non-obvious way to honour your request while I catch up a little

[jjh927]

I thought you were self-voting

That's a pretty no-brain move

[jjh927]

Tbf I've not been paying as much attention to this as I should

I sorta fell off a bit after my superb infographic and also when nobody asked me about my readslist

[jjh927]

I mean, there's nothing in it really. I could switch to DGB. What's the votecount at?

[jjh927]

There any fruit unbargained for? Avoiding any special powers just being handed out secretly by Pine before hammer is a good call

[jjh927]

Yeah, I think you're right, I was just checking I hadn't missed something

VOTE: DGB

[jjh927]

Can you get Jingle to tell Ali my role

[jjh927]

It's impossible to mislynch scum

[jjh927]

Why would you pass up on the message for nothing

[jjh927]

You could redeem yourself by telling us the rest of the scumteam?

[jjh927]

Say that again but also something about fruit mechanics

[jjh927]

I think he can say that but he probably won't

[jjh927]

Why are you putting two roleblocking fruits in one go?

[jjh927]

Seems like a pretty poor choice

I'd put roleblocking shit immediately after the most powerful pro-town shit I could find


But you do you, Pine


PEdit: Damn that's good info

[jjh927]

I think if you do that we'll pivot a lynch to you

[jjh927]

So the answer is basically gonna be yes


Let Alisae decide

[jjh927]

i know he's like, bolded stuff before but is he under any onus to tell the truth if it's not bolded?
haven't really been following closely enough

He can't lie about fruit powers or mechanics. It's in the rules. Doesn't matter if it's bolded or not

[jjh927]

No that's fucking dumb, Chickadee

[jjh927]

This IS a successful method of leashing Pine

Pine saying it won't work is entirely him trying to convince us not to do it.

[jjh927]

He can ONLY pick people who have bargained with him. He clearly gets something out of giving away fruit. He wants to give away fruit.

If we go with Alisae deciding, he can either choose someone Alisae picked, or he can choose nobody.

[jjh927]

If him picking nobody is preferable to him to picking someone that Alisae decides on, then it is pretty fucking clear that leashing is working

[jjh927]

We can't not bargain. If nobody bargains, he can just give the fruit out.

So someone has to bargain. Getting Alisae to decide on it is an effective leash.

[jjh927]

Leashing the mechanic is pro-town. Asking for fruit while not being a person Alisae has selected prevents leashing the mechanic, and as such is playing in a pro-scum manner.

[jjh927]

He can ONLY pick people who have bargained with him. He clearly gets something out of giving away fruit. He wants to give away fruit.

If we go with Alisae deciding, he can either choose someone Alisae picked, or he can choose nobody.

He doesn't have to pick anyone.

Stop trying to leash it. It's a mechanic not designed to be leashed.

Yeah, he doesn't have to pick anyone, except that it is CLEARLY IN HIS FAVOUR TO PICK SOMEONE. If he chooses not to pick someone, then he effectively misses out on a mechanic that logically must come out as net pro-scum

[jjh927]

It may have been designed to be difficult to leash, however, we can still leash it to some degree and make it as pro-town as physically possible. Your direct opposition to this stance is extremely concerning

[jjh927]

So MariaR really needs to do the bargain

[jjh927]

I'll
UNVOTE:

I'm gonna go have a shower
If MariaR or someone else Alisae names decides to bargain in the period of time while I'm showering, I'll vote again afterwards

[jjh927]

Done showering

[jjh927]

Part of me would rather not have to think about who to target with something like that tbh

[jjh927]

I'll still do it though

Bargain: Jailkeeper

VOTE: DGB

[jjh927]

I'll offer to post in jjba reaction images and memes for the rest of the day

[jjh927]

He can't hold me to agreements for the rest of the game

[jjh927]

And if somehow he can I don't want to make agreements for the rest of the game

[jjh927]

I mean, post restrictions are pretty neat offers imo

[jjh927]

I could also offer to correct my previous infographic's portrayal of Pine

[jjh927]

jojo's bizarre adventure

[jjh927]

ok but every reaction gif must have a conifer pasted into it

[jjh927]

If I told you I didn't finish season 1 of Jojo's bizarre adventure would that hurt you?

[jjh927]

ok but every reaction gif must have a conifer pasted into it

that's literally another deciduous tree

[jjh927]

Ooh I have another idea

How about I play some minesweeper and get a good expert time that is deserving of a power

[jjh927]

Ari no I don't think you're ever gonna be allowed fruit

[jjh927]

Ari no I don't think you're ever gonna be allowed fruit

Why not? Pine would love to give me the goods I'm sure!

Oh Pine would probably give them to you.

It's just that because you are scum we will not allow you to bargain for fruit without lynching you

[jjh927]

I'll support your right to bargain if you can beat the minesweeper expert time I just did a few minutes ago

I'm out of practice as well

[jjh927]

I'll still do it though

Bargain: Jailkeeper

VOTE: DGB

Why do you want a jailkeeper on day freaking 2

I don't, particularly, but I don't want scum to get given it secretly

[jjh927]

I mean, they could no kill and that would really fuck with us

Also the issue with the jailkeeper is that the kind of player that you'd want to protect with it is likely to be a PR

[jjh927]

I mean, they could no kill and that would really fuck with us

Also the issue with the jailkeeper is that the kind of player that you'd want to protect with it is likely to be a PR

why did u ask for a jailkeeper btw when u were complaining about leashing. r u thinking this is leashing?

It's leashing Pine's options for who to give fruit to to people Alisae says can have the fruit

[jjh927]

Oh no I have been denied whatever will I do

[jjh927]

Pine can't give the fruit out secretly since I bargained

[jjh927]

RN it's either me or nobody and I don't believe he has to make that decision until the lynch is achieved

I'm not sure he actually needs to stick to his deals, either. I think that's just a thing he's doing

[jjh927]

It's already kept out of scum hands

[jjh927]

I feel like the optimal circumstance must logically be one where Pine chooses to not give out the fruit at all, since it's a scum mechanic and he'd be choosing not to use it

[jjh927]

Why is ari in your townreads

[jjh927]

Fwiw I will be extremely angry if someone comes in and uses this as an argument for why Pine can't be leashed

[jjh927]

because, you know, this is Pine getting leashed and this is currently set to be proven at eod

[jjh927]

jjh do you still think Ari is scum?
is it POE or do you see a particular scum indicative agenda?

Do you not see a scum indicative agenda in his day 1 play?

[jjh927]

You know, that whole thing where he went uncharacteristically far in defending scum while trying to push opportunistic scumreads alongside LLD? In a game where his scumplay needed to be abnormal because of the previous game of this type?

[jjh927]

Why does town!ari attempt to drag out something like that when it was clearly not a fun time

[jjh927]

i'm fairly wary of ari's scumrange (i've picked his alignment fairly reliably in micros we've played together), and i sincerely think the whole thing has been too lucid to be scum!ari.

pedit: i have no idea what that question means dude

Lynching players like LLD is hell because of the lengths they are willing to go to as scum

Ari knew this

Ari recognised that it was hell

He still essentially tried to prolong that hell

[jjh927]

He was willing to take literally any option he could find in order to avoid lynching LLD

I don't know if you recall, but I was the main scumread of his in that period and it formed in a manner that was opportunistic as fuck

[jjh927]

Remember this post?

oh looks like I was hammer

neat I stopped scum from getting it

I bargain in good faith, but not in idiocy. The conditions of the bargain were not fulfilled, so I regard myself freed from their constraints. When I get home from work, I will consider which applicant to grant the Watcher power to, if any, and whether I will require a service of them in exchange.

Similarly, my faith is true when my conditions are met. Chickadee, I award you a Neighborizer fruit. You must use it before the next Day Phase begins.

I feel like this should tell you everything about how Pine is allowed to select who to give powers to

[jjh927]

jay
Jay
H

Sometimes its better to keep things to yourself

Is it though?

[jjh927]

RN it looks like Pine is gonna not give out the fruit

I feel like that can only be good

[jjh927]

Not sure what you two are on about. I’ve been above board from the first that my bargaining is a matter of honor for me. I am constrained by no rules except those I impose on myself. That said, if I break faith, my deals lose credibility and therefore leverage. I am thus incentivized to keep my word.

Yeah, you're incentivised to keep your word to make it more likely that you get stuff in return for giving out the fruit beyond whatever you already get


If the only people offering you anything are people Ali decides on, and we only offer you trash, then we minimalise whatever you get out of it

[jjh927]

RN it looks like Pine is gonna not give out the fruit

I feel like that can only be good

Lol yeah

Town having less power is brilliant for me, actually

Then why do you give out the fruits in the first place?

[jjh927]

I feel like I am part of the first line of defence stopping Pine from just giving all fruit to scum

[jjh927]

That's a VERY costly tool, if that's it

[jjh927]

I don't think Pine is actively misleading anyone, since we're content to just not try to get info out of him beyond the shit he can't lie about

[jjh927]

The only way he could be doing that is indirectly, by telling his scumteam to do stuff

[jjh927]

I've got a handle on it. You're just disagreeing with me for some reason

There's absolutely a downside to the fruit.

[jjh927]

I appreciate 4773 but your end point is wrong because we are indeed beating you at your own game

[jjh927]

jjh should probably focus on non fruit stuff a little too yeah but he'll do as he does

You did kinda stop talking to me about ari

[jjh927]

Pine wouldn't be giving us more facts if we were playing into his hands

[jjh927]

Just because scum said it doesn't mean it can't be true

[jjh927]

oops i didn't see this comment
i really don't think he reads the gamestate that hard dude

Don't forget this either

He was willing to take literally any option he could find in order to avoid lynching LLD

I don't know if you recall, but I was the main scumread of his in that period and it formed in a manner that was opportunistic as fuck

[jjh927]

I mean, I was voteparking Ari for most of the day

[jjh927]

Honestly I've mostly just thought it was really obvious that Ari was scum

[jjh927]

Past me had this to say:

What about the timing of this has anything to do with ulterior motives and how!?

What a dumb broad statement with no follow up and no gravity to it. This is exactly the kind of bs post I'm talking about! It looks decent on the surface but there is nothing to it!

In this particular case, I was trying to figure out if Dannflor was seeing what I was.

I thought the timing was super weird with your vote being quite clearly a means to shift attention off of UT, preferably onto me, when the people around who were talking about UT have effectively cooperated with me but still aren't sure about my alignment.
I am the only active player who has continued to express interest in you being lynched.
I've a firm feeling which has not gone away that Krazy's vote on you in RVS was a bus due to your likelihood of being rung up early, which he later shifted when the risk of that dissipated
LLD being the main proponent of my lynch also adds an interesting dynamic to it, especially if she's scum.

But back to the timing:
You didn't vote me when LLD cased me, or at any ensuing point
You didn't vote me right after isoing me
But you did vote me after... isoing UT and comparing the percentage of posts you considered to contain content, which is flimsy, and then there's that bunch of reasons for why scum!you would vote me then and there that make sense to me

[jjh927]

so you might well be right that I'm just holding on to a read

[jjh927]

I dunno if that's that bad a thing here though

[jjh927]

I think Ari is likely to be a major point of discussion tomorrow so yeah

[jjh927]

Jingle, why haven't you gone back to put flavour in votecounts in ages

[jjh927]

It would make me happier than that gif Ali just posted if you fixed all the flavour over the night phase

Though that gif is incapable of feeling

[jjh927]

But ducks are air units, naval units and land units

[jjh927]

I stopped reading this game when I died