Guns & Roses IV [Game Over]

[farside22]

Again, it's not absolutely critical because I'm shooting him if we don't lynch him, but if the players I called out earlier all switch with me then icon becomes largest wagon and others will have to compromise there. ABR can shoot in (me/cakez/Maria) if icon flips town as I'm guessing he'll start scumread me for "defusing wagons" lol

You and abr really need to be on the same page, whether you like each other or not. Scum read each other or not.
I think abr has a strong feeling on cakez. I think venca/lilith/ knight.
Im not going to oppose any lynch except the 2 claimed gun players at this point.
At this point day 2 is going to be more informative the today with all that has happened

[farside22]

I think abr has a strong feeling on cakez.

If ABR has strong feelings on cakez why is he voting MariaR?

Idk i lost track of his vote with the back and forth talks.

[farside22]

VOTE: maria

I'll shoot cakez tonight.

Abr: if cakez goes through aim for venca.
I just iso maria and reread it without hate and maybe wrong about how i was interpreted her post.
You can slap me later.

Ok!

Disagreeing with something people say is not a scumtell.

It's scummy you're not trying to save yourself by voting sircakez or DC earlier. I had previously read your slot as town but you've done a bad job keeping on board with your antics.

Well here is some of what was said. I told him i changed my mind but i don't know why he didn't change his vote.
I also don't know why its scummy not to vote a player to save yourself. I thought that was NIA.

[farside22]

would you switch to icon if we have the votes, farside?

Sure. ... maybe.
Sorry i think icons soft claims make me think thats a bad idea.

[farside22]

That is different from this game. He read more agressive in the previous game and even made cases, but none of that is here.

[farside22]

This makes me rethink my gut reads from here on out.

Alright DC those meta town references really do show a different icon from this game.
I saw he made cases as town, questioned more. Involved more in the game then here.

[farside22]

This makes me rethink my gut reads from here on out.

Alright DC those meta town references really do show a different icon from this game.
I saw he made cases as town, questioned more. Involved more in the game then here.

yeah i wonder how that can possible be the case

No i see other games you don't like games that go for pages or people spamming. Looks like it sucks the fun out of you.

Hardclaim gun

have fun with that

Sigh.

I thought fire was a gun holder in this game.
I am not a gun holder. I know i hinted but i thought it was best to save gun players in the game

[farside22]

better lynch me because i'm shooting you tonight

Please take a step back.
I would very much like town to win this game so can i ask you to please not shot a claimed gun player

[farside22]

Just going to say this over and over.
We know there are 3 town gun owners in this game.
This is like having an ic in the game. Yes i realize scum can fake claim, but i promise with all of my heart that i can clear up any of that day 2 as long as you don't shoot each other.
Please

[farside22]

I'd pay money to have you shot venca. I just had a horrible thought and id rather not have that wifom

[farside22]

VOTE: Knightmare

Id be so down for this.
Completely being ignore by all as he continues to post throughout ms while doing nothing here.

@dc: abr did say he would......lets just say i lost some trust with my reads and had a panic thought processes so im going to just shut up and let each gun claim person decide whom they will shoot.
Just dont shoot each other, it helps scum.

Before the day ends each claimed gun player should say whom they will shoot.
Dont shoot what someone else claimed.

[farside22]

Spoiler: spoiling this farside post because it’s long

I also am not sure where you see that I’m scumreading you because I’m pretty sure I just said you dropped in my townreads

You’re still in my lynchpool but idk you could try to convince me on farside

Wow that was a wild read..

I don’t think DC is scum. His reactions, while not necessarily pro-town, seem genuinely frustrated and I think I would react similarly to being deathtunneled (and I think I have in the past.... like you don’t react to being deathtunneled with patience and grace unless you’re a saint, you’re obviously going to be upset about it and people who are using his reaction as a reason to scumread him are probably not thinking about how they would react to being deathtunneled or are scum).

Out of the people on the DC wagon (ABD, chkflip, vecna, farside, votato) I think there has to be 1+ scum.
- I don’t know what my ABR read is anymore because he’s being weirdly reasonable at some points but then really deathtunnely at other points.
- I think chkflip/vecna/votato votes seem opportunistic like they see ABR start to deathtunnel and go “ooh easy mislynch, I just have to let ABR do the work.”

• Votato in particular supposedly doesn’t have info on site meta and I think should have questioned the sudden change in ABR more, but at least was scumreading DC prior to ABR’s push.
  
• Chkflip was still scumreading votato until ABR started pushing and then was apparently totally fine with votato’s slot being on the same wagon as him and stopped pushing votato completely.
  
• Vecna sheeps the wagon even though he thought DC vs ABR was TvT. And there’s a weird transition back and forth in his earlier posts from being really friendly with ABR and then suspicious of him like he doesn’t want to come across as having too strong of a townread. So out of these 3 I think it might be vecna or chkflip.

- farside doesn’t want to listen to anything DC says and unfortunately I’m starting to agree with votato here that once she decides a slot is scummy she just tunnels it as if it’s confscum, which to some extent she said herself is her playstyle. The only person she didn’t do this to is ABR - why? Claims it’s because “meta” and she reread the thread but she didn’t do that for anyone else she was tunneling afaik.

I’m still good with a maria wagon

. Need to reread cakes but I’ve been townreading him up to now. Would also be down for a vecna or chkflip wagon and could be convinced on a farside vote.

yeah not 7, 6. your scumpool seems to be me, vecna, chkflip, maria, farside, ABR?

also you're OK with maria yet youre defending her and saying shes town?

Uhhh...... as I stated in my last paragraph, current lynchpool is maria, vecna, chkflip, a

nd could be convinced on farside

. Where are you seeing ABR or you in that paragraph?

I was actually questioning ABR’s reasoning which I thought was faulty logic. The ABR post may have flipped my maria read

See someone that slips in a town read to hey convince me farside is scum.
This is exactly what I see coming from a scum mind set more then town. The reason I was more suspicious of this is that ABR is a town read. But I'm curious why all you ever say is the same mind set as me, over and over as a town tell.

I mean someone else that is not maria or venca can tell me if I'm wrong about those post from Lilith.
I don't see her taking a stand and I see her leaving options for both me and maria scum but then saying she see's we could be town but then willing to vote either of us.
If I'm wrong, some one tell me why.

I removed maria from my top lynchpool already
You’re also not in my top lynchpool
Could I be convinced to vote either? Yes, but currently I’m not prepared to.
I’m not saying I have the game solved at all and I don’t try to pin down a whole team or whatever and I’m also not even saying you’re both scum

The bold above contradicts the statement made.
You have made another post that give you free reign to ride either side of the wagon. The "well she's not town, but I don't scum read her so I'm fine with that wagon"
That is many more classic line of you not figuring players out but trying to be ambious as possible in your words.

See and when I look at the meta for lilith she doesn't solely read a player as town just for being in sync with her. Like I searched many different places and I couldn't find a time that she put that as a main reason to town read someone.
(and yes that is within the rules chkflip, you can meta search a player).
So no I'm no longer sold on lilith as town. I don't see the tides changing. I don't think Cakez is scum but I don't see enough time to change this wagon around.
Sorry cakez, ABR said he would shoot venca and I can see with lilith them being scum together especially since they have barely interacted together so you are basically the goat in this game.

I don’t think you’re even reading my posts....... when I said I could be convinced to vote for you I was talking about there being 1+ scum on the DC wagon and that was my main point in the post you quoted. I don’t think it’s contradictory of me to say you’re not a scumread and also not a townread so therefore I could be convinced to vote you since you were on the wagon I think has scum.

The basis of my strongest reads when I played before was actually usually based on how in tune I feel with someone’s perspective. Unfortunately I just never paid attention to it before because when I last played mafia,

4 years ago

, I thought the best way to catch scum was to question their logic. I happen to be very different than I was 4 years ago (I mean that’s like 15% of my life that I’ve been gone from this site) so I imagine a lot about my play is going to be different and meta probably isn’t going to work that well until I’ve played more games. Behaving differently after 4 years is not a scumtell.

If you’ve chosen me as your next tunnel target I’m just not going to engage any further. Like at this point I think you’ve decided I must be scummy and will basically take anything I say and twist my words to paint me more negatively.

Im not tunneling you.
I think your behavior is scummy. Asking a player to convince you to find me scummy that you called scummy most of the game makes no sense.
Ive basically equated your game play as femme fatal playstyle.
Using players scum reads against other players buttering up others and claiming them town till you realize you cant ride their coat tails once their being scum read.
Its actually impressive play.
Only thing im sad about all this is i don't have a gun to shot you and i think most will ignore this post and continue letting you play that style.
But bravo, bravo.

That all said we need to consolidate our votes very soon people

[farside22]

iirc farside said there were 3 gun claims pre-Ico claim?

No just 2.
I was hoping antly 3rd claim wouldnt happen

[farside22]

I'll move to SC if needed, I had a TR on Paragon so not gonna vote Maria.

Wow you guys love blowing up the thread, will catch up ~soon.

I'm happy with my vote, okay with lynching either of eyes or S_S today.

The reads that barely moved is not really part of the game. Yes the game has a lot of post but eye said he was at leadt trying to read a few pages back to get an idea what is going on.
You come only when someone says where is knight?

[farside22]

has anyone else noticed that the quality of DC's posts and reads has gone way down since the pressure came off? the reads seem to have changed, too.

Yes.
Why?

[farside22]

VOTE: knightmare
Sorry for triple posting. I got lost in my responses

[farside22]

Id be so down for this.
Completely being ignore by all as he continues to post throughout ms while doing nothing here.

What do you want me to do? Go through 500 pages of shit posting? no, I'm not interested thanks.
I've given my reads and my position on the wagons. I don't see a need to do anything else.
I give you scum you refuse to lynch it, can't do anything else.

oh god. if you don't think you can handle it, don't play? super scummy that you show up to defend yourself as soon as the finger is on you. that said, i still think there are better wagons than knightmare.

has anyone else noticed that the quality of DC's posts and reads has gone way down since the pressure came off? the reads seem to have changed, too.

Yes.
Why?

seems really strange that when youre under pressure you have good reads and logic, and then when the pressure is off suddenly your reads go down the shitter. almost like you were actually being helpful to seem town, but now theres no pressure so you can go back to misleading.

I didn't see don as logical when he said he wanted to be shot. Ill check it out more during the night phases.
Currently he reads as excited to play again.

Except farside bc that avatar is v cool

Thank you. I love my avatar too much to change it.

[farside22]

Knightmare only showing up now with a wagon on him sucks

I'd probably get lynched regardless of whether I show up or not, cause y'all fucking stupid. Anyway we'll have a nice convo about this post game.

I can't see the logic of this an any way. There was repeated comments made by me about you being MIA for days now.
Actively lurking and such.

[farside22]

If I die and this flips town then please be suspicious of anyone trying to sell S_S as scum for starting the wagon

Also pls don’t kill Maria

Abr will kill cakez probaly so try shooting who you think is scum.
Icon: do not shot a claim gun player

[farside22]

That was to farside ^

Im already voting you.

[farside22]

Probably not when its when more successful in finding scum then not.

[farside22]

Celebrating may 4th watch star wars trilogy. Try not to lynch anyone while im busy

[farside22]

preferred wagons were cakez, lilith, chkflip at least. well really pretty much anyone, although knightmares posts at the very end had me reconsidering.

is it strange that both ABR and DC are alive? those are safe shots for scum right? or are they not good shots cuz they give town too much info?

scum probably shot both SS and firebringer right?

DC needs to claim now.

There's a very real chance that DC is scum who took rose and fakeclaimed gun yesterday.

Why not see if there is a CC? Or what makes you think scum wouldn't lie about being a rose N1

Im just wondering what makes one more likely then the other for claims.

[farside22]

preferred wagons were cakez, lilith, chkflip at least. well really pretty much anyone, although knightmares posts at the very end had me reconsidering.

is it strange that both ABR and DC are alive? those are safe shots for scum right? or are they not good shots cuz they give town too much info?

scum probably shot both SS and firebringer right?

DC needs to claim now.

There's a very real chance that DC is scum who took rose and fakeclaimed gun yesterday.

Why not see if there is a CC? Or what makes you think scum wouldn't lie about being a rose N1

Im just wondering what makes one more likely then the other for claims.

well if DC says I shot xyz and xyz is alive and picked rose n2 instead of n1, then we know one of them is scum.

You seem pretty confident DC is lying without a CC.
Consider this a preFos on you.
Pending info.

I want to see what icon claims for last night.

[farside22]

At the moment we have 3 ICs due to the lack of CCs, namely me, icon, ABR

So 3 scum in (votato, vecna, eyestott, Maria, farside, Lilith, chkflip)

I have a softclear on one of these players but I’m not outing yet because I want to see where scum tries to go today first. I’ll out it at some point today because all 3 guns are still alive rn meaning that even if scum have 2 guns left for N2 then they can still triple kill even with the info outed on the potential softclear, so it won’t change our worst case scenario

Im fine with you sitting on this, but i think you should say who you shot at befire days end. Idk if an N1 rose =town. Depends on the player, if they are confident as scum.

If ABR and/or I were scum it would be hugely beneficial for the town guns to just CC so that there was confirmed scum in the gun claims

Like the fact that you’re trying to act like it’s beneficial to town for a town gun to hide their identity just to out it later is hilarious and also ridiculous

I agree with this today. Im going to explain why, shortly.

does anyone really care if DC is RC? or anyone else?

it doesn't help the game either

i think i'ma shoot chkflip tonight

he felt a little *too* agreeable/easy on the townread to me

Anyway you would shot a player that most are scum reading?

Its not like im trying to make people realize youre town thats misreading me.

I think youre scum pushing me.

Regardless, I bet youre gonna claim that you tried shooting Lilith or Maria.

If youre actually gonna make that claim on someone im townreading

, and they confirm....well thatll be interesting.

How did lilith go from town read when you said earlier you were not sure of her.
Bolded belon previous statement.

Then the next question is whether he would go so far as to openly defend scum buddy Maria.

Maria had some decent enough reasons to scumread me early on (well they were not good reasons, but I could see a town doing a hurried catchup could latch onto those).

Another question is whether ABR vs DC could be SvS. The wagon diffused so quickly (I still have to read that part of the game actually), and I dont think town ABR would suddenly give up on it so quickly without solid reason. The fact neither of those ended up shooting eachother is also highly suspicious after the activity between those two.

Still think Votato is likely town. The slot feels pretty genuine in the way its blundering about. Nothing it says makes sense, so there must be some weird town crazy behind that.

I have had a gut townread on Eyestott for his first 5 posts or whatever since the start of the game. It might be a very bad reason. I dont know if I can do an unbiased revisit of that slot.

Lilith and Farside are just like, a blur. I dont think I could see a farside scum here due to her devellopments, but I also bet she could fool me easily

. Lilith is just an unreadable slot to me, and I dont think I can be trusted to have a proper read there.

Chkflip feels so towny in everything he does, but I still have a gut feeling something is wrong there. Im not gonna be able to get that lynched, and actually persuing that will just mean I get lynched today. If he is scum, town loses this game regardless I feel. So better to just treat that slot as scum.

I feel like im missing a person maybe?

Regardless, my likely solve is ABR + DC + lilith, but any combination of two of those + 1 slot im wrong about would do just fine

Im curious why if there is no CC why your pushing Abr/DC and how did lilith end up into this scum read after criticizing dc for possibly shooting her now?

[farside22]

who wants to narrow that list down with some actual town and/or scumreads?

Scum reads lilith/venca. Feeling good about that.
Why do you think there is scum in the claim gun players?

[farside22]

Im not going to influence. People are scum reading me. Maybe have everyone give there top 2 scum reads and go from there.

Gun claims: Abr, you and DC.

If anyone doubts those 3 we should mass claim.

[farside22]

I think a mass claim would help the panic brewing between certain players and confirm the 3 IC in the game.

Ebwop: completely 100% agree.

I will start: not a gun holder.

[farside22]

Vecna flailing trying to pin scumreads on two uncced guns is hilarious

yeah but is it a scum move? it's so blatantly Obvious i don't think scum would do that?

I have a theory but its based on paranioa.

For those posting claim gun or no gun.

[farside22]

I just couldnt do it, she played a very well, she didnt deserve to be vigged in the night even though i thought it would solve the game

You played a brilliant game.

I will vote you during the day like a man.

VOTE: Lilith

I am very confused by this. Did you ever say you had a scum read on lilith

[farside22]

No I didn't.

Why the vote?

[farside22]

If not (pro tip: this is the correct answer) let ignore him and lynch someone else

You should claim, only because if it clears someone there is one less person to sort through.
The scum already have 3 gun players to shot through that are clear. Can you tell me your concern?

I think we need to weigh up how great the risk that we’re in semi-mylo is

As in — if we mislynch and icon mis-shoots is it just GG or do scum have a rose/do scum have a missed shot on N1?

I think maybe we do full massclaim later today as in a mylo situation scum already have all the shots they need to hit win in terms of slots that are guaranteed kills, and if a scummy shot can be cleared via icon shooting them then it would be worth it if scum only have 1 gun

But my brain is melting from trying to do mechanics

I didn't read the last 2 versions of this game, does anyone know if scum picked to be a rose or did they all pick gun?

Farside, how come you were on basically every wagon possible yesterday?

I was playing loose. I tend to get a certain play style and I wanted to change it.
Yes I know that sounds bad but hey meta is a thing people look at so I can use this as a I can do shitty town stuff in my meta profile.

Anyways I think other then eyestott we have not CC's. That makes me feel better about the gun players.
I feel paranoid about a few things.
My vote will be for either lilith or venca at the end of the day. I still not sure about 3rd scum. I don't see Mariah in that at all with that combo, I think votato is town so either chkflip or eyestott.
Give me a bit to look at something.

[farside22]

VoteCount 1.6

eyestott [4] -

Knightmare491

,

SirCakez

,

Firebringer

,

Albert B. Rampage

Knightmare491

[2] - eyestott,

DonCorleone

votato [4] - lilith2013, farside22,

Iconeum

, chkflip

Iconeum

[1] - votato
farside22 [1] - Vecna

Firebringer

[1] - MariaR

Not Voting [1]

-

Something_Smart

With 14 alive it takes 8 votes to be chosen.

Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2020-05-02 23:35:31)

VoteCount 1.7

eyestott [3] -

Knightmare491

,

Firebringer

, farside22

Knightmare491

[2] - eyestott,

DonCorleone

votato [2] -

Iconeum

, chkflip
farside22 [2] - votato,

Albert B. Rampage

MariaR [2] - Vecna, lilith2013
Vecna [1] - MariaR

Albert B. Rampage

[1] -

SirCakez

Not Voting [1]

-

Something_Smart

With 14 alive it takes 8 votes to be chosen.

Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2020-05-02 23:35:31)

Farside, how come you only got on the eyestott wagon after it was dead?

I was tunnel votato at the time. That's all I remember.
Thanks for this. I was going to search this wagon as well. So those off were venca and lilith

Ok so we should lynch venca and icon can shot between me and lilith if you want.
Yes I can hear you WIFOM DC, but I assure you I was a N1 rose so if you want to him to shot me, idc since scum will have a lot of clean up with the 3 ic day 3.

Any questions?

[farside22]

If not (pro tip: this is the correct answer) let ignore him and lynch someone else

You should claim, only because if it clears someone there is one less person to sort through.
The scum already have 3 gun players to shot through that are clear. Can you tell me your concern?

I think we need to weigh up how great the risk that we’re in semi-mylo is

As in — if we mislynch and icon mis-shoots is it just GG or do scum have a rose/do scum have a missed shot on N1?

I think maybe we do full massclaim later today as in a mylo situation scum already have all the shots they need to hit win in terms of slots that are guaranteed kills, and if a scummy shot can be cleared via icon shooting them then it would be worth it if scum only have 1 gun

But my brain is melting from trying to do mechanics

I didn't read the last 2 versions of this game, does anyone know if scum picked to be a rose or did they all pick gun?

Farside, how come you were on basically every wagon possible yesterday?

I was playing loose. I tend to get a certain play style and I wanted to change it.
Yes I know that sounds bad but hey meta is a thing people look at so I can use this as a I can do shitty town stuff in my meta profile.

Anyways I think other then eyestott we have not CC's. That makes me feel better about the gun players.
I feel paranoid about a few things.
My vote will be for either lilith or venca at the end of the day. I still not sure about 3rd scum. I don't see Mariah in that at all with that combo, I think votato is town so either chkflip or eyestott.
Give me a bit to look at something.

what happened since you finally realized I was town on d1? You suddenly had your revelation and now youre back to scumreading me again? Sure a lot has happened, but some words please?

I was calling you scum at the end of day 1.
That didn't change day 2.

[farside22]

didn't read the last 2 versions of this game, does anyone know if scum picked to be a rose or did they all pick gun?

I’m both versions one player picked rose

I’ll out who I shot but not before I’m ready to

What night did they pick for rose?

[farside22]

You lynched knight and wanted to shoot two confirmed town guns.

I was wrong about 2 players you were wrong about 3 players.

This can wait till post game. The argument will not help the town. Let him do his thing.

[farside22]

except you definitely arent town.

preferred lynches are lilith and chkflip.

?? Why are you calling vecna scum but he’s not in your lynch pool?

I caught that too.
Sigh.
I like the idea of you as a femme fatal

didn't read the last 2 versions of this game, does anyone know if scum picked to be a rose or did they all pick gun?

I’m both versions one player picked rose

I’ll out who I shot but not before I’m ready to

What night did they pick for rose?

Pretty sure it was N1 for GnR III but i can’t remember for GnR II

thanks

be back shortly

[farside22]

VoteCount 1.6

eyestott [4] -

Knightmare491

,

SirCakez

,

Firebringer

,

Albert B. Rampage

Knightmare491

[2] - eyestott,

DonCorleone

votato [4] - lilith2013, farside22,

Iconeum

, chkflip

Iconeum

[1] - votato
farside22 [1] - Vecna

Firebringer

[1] - MariaR

Not Voting [1]

-

Something_Smart

With 14 alive it takes 8 votes to be chosen.

Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2020-05-02 23:35:31)

VoteCount 1.7

eyestott [3] -

Knightmare491

,

Firebringer

, farside22

Knightmare491

[2] - eyestott,

DonCorleone

votato [2] -

Iconeum

, chkflip
farside22 [2] - votato,

Albert B. Rampage

MariaR [2] - Vecna, lilith2013
Vecna [1] - MariaR

Albert B. Rampage

[1] -

SirCakez

Not Voting [1]

-

Something_Smart

With 14 alive it takes 8 votes to be chosen.

Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2020-05-02 23:35:31)

Farside, how come you only got on the eyestott wagon after it was dead?

I was tunnel votato at the time. That's all I remember.
Thanks for this. I was going to search this wagon as well. So those off were venca and lilith

Ok so we should lynch venca and icon can shot between me and lilith if you want.
Yes I can hear you WIFOM DC, but I assure you I was a N1 rose so if you want to him to shot me, idc since scum will have a lot of clean up with the 3 ic day 3.

Any questions?

Ive had hard townreads on Stotts and Knightmare the entire game, and been quite vocal about that.

So if thats your reason to be a waggonomics wizard here, youre doing it completely wrong

VoteCount 1.6

eyestott [4] -

Knightmare491

,

SirCakez

,

Firebringer

,

Albert B. Rampage

Knightmare491

[2] - eyestott,

DonCorleone

votato [4] - lilith2013, farside22,

Iconeum

, chkflip

Iconeum

[1] - votato
farside22 [1] - Vecna

Firebringer

[1] - MariaR

Not Voting [1]

-

Something_Smart

With 14 alive it takes 8 votes to be chosen.

Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2020-05-02 23:35:31)

VoteCount 1.7

eyestott [3] -

Knightmare491

,

Firebringer

, farside22

Knightmare491

[2] - eyestott,

DonCorleone

votato [2] -

Iconeum

, chkflip
farside22 [2] - votato,

Albert B. Rampage

MariaR [2] - Vecna, lilith2013
Vecna [1] - MariaR

Albert B. Rampage

[1] -

SirCakez

Not Voting [1]

-

Something_Smart

With 14 alive it takes 8 votes to be chosen.

Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2020-05-02 23:35:31)

Farside, how come you only got on the eyestott wagon after it was dead?

I was tunnel votato at the time. That's all I remember.
Thanks for this. I was going to search this wagon as well. So those off were venca and lilith

Ok so we should lynch venca and icon can shot between me and lilith if you want.
Yes I can hear you WIFOM DC, but I assure you I was a N1 rose so if you want to him to shot me, idc since scum will have a lot of clean up with the 3 ic day 3.

Any questions?

Why did you skip Maria

Thats my one question really

Mariah pointed to you and I think you are scum.
lilith makes me think I'm wrong about her so Idk there.

Can both of you stop, this isn’t helping us at all

Agreed.

yeah i had a scumread on chkflip from very early on d1.

vecna has been spewing some crazy bullshit today, cant tell if its stupid or desperate.

desperate.

I really wish you hadn’t claimed pre-emptively farside, I was trying to do a thing.

I shot farside and she didn’t die, so she’s definitely telling the truth about her role.

Sorry I was daring players to shot me. I would love to be out of this game at this point.
Thanks for hating me so much.

Nobody scumreads farside.

Pffft you were not reading day 1.


Well I'm going to spew some crazy thoughts. People are more then welcome to ignore me but I felt the need to express my crazy right now.

I really thought by the start of day 2 that the scum team was lilith/venca/abr.
I thought Abr was lying about being a gun holder because he continued to push at DC with no CC in site and he sounded really sure that DC was lying despite the lack of CC.
Plus all the ad hom stuff really looks scummy.

With no CC I'm throwing that out the window.
I really think venca scum. Still have thought with lilith since they hardly interacted and the unvote looks weird from lilith but I maybe just in tunnel mode.
If venca is scum I'm taking Maria off the table as scum and I can not for the life of me see votato as scum.
So it is really just POE at this time.

vote: Venca

[farside22]

I read back through and noticed that she was on pretty much every single wagon after it became viable, plus I thought her turnaround on me was fucking awful and after thinking about it I was of the opinion that it was faked to justify getting on my wagon

Hey I changed my mind afterwards. I tried to be better after I thought about how the claims helped town.

*feeling hurt*
By the way I was trying to get scum to shot me N1 with leading the town and my soft claiming. Too bad if failed epically.

now the long wait for stotts, maria and chkflip begins

did you guys already talk about the guns clearing people yesterday before hammer btw? (still have a bunch of pages to read there)

Well I told DC to shot you. Sad he didn't. I figured Abr was going to shot cakez with how hard he was scum reading the guy. In the end I told DC to shot who he thought was scum.

[farside22]

Also, all that reasoning in that big Farside post is fake as fuck

Pretending she was drawing conclusions because people werent cc'ing gun on D1? Yeah right

My conclusion are based on the facts of today and no CC's.
The only person who hasn't posted is Eye. Do you know if he is a gun or something?

Why did you pick N1 rose Farside?

I have been targeted N1 a lot since I started playing again. Seemed logical.

[farside22]

Some homework

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=71175 modkilled D2
viewtopic.php?f=84&t=68212 scum lynched D5
viewtopic.php?f=56&t=68256 killed D8
viewtopic.php?f=56&t=67829 Endgamed as town
viewtopic.php?f=56&t=67884 her replacement endgamed as town
viewtopic.php?f=52&t=68163 lynched as scum D2
viewtopic.php?f=52&t=68703 lynched as scum D3
viewtopic.php?f=54&t=67948 endgamed as cult
viewtopic.php?f=54&t=67600 Survived but got endgamed as town
viewtopic.php?f=56&t=67479 nightkilled during intermission as town (dance game)

Thats all of the games I could spot on her first page of games played, except ongoing I think?

Nightkilled "early" as town once. Lynched/caught as scum a decent ammount. Usually survives very long as town

So I really do not see any strong case here why she would expect this to be different as town and die that early?

I certaintly dont see a reason for DC to just not question it.

Given this data, id expect her to pick N1 rose as scum more often than as town.

Nothing definitive ofcourse, the amount of guns could also very easily sway her to be cautious. But reason to be suspicious.

Also, all that reasoning in that big Farside post is fake as fuck

Pretending she was drawing conclusions because people werent cc'ing gun on D1? Yeah right

My conclusion are based on the facts of today and no CC's.
The only person who hasn't posted is Eye. Do you know if he is a gun or something?

Why did you pick N1 rose Farside?

I have been targeted N1 a lot since I started playing again

. Seemed logical.

You do realize I just started playing again 3 weeks ago. That had nothing to do with old games.
I would thought about picking gun instead but I was worried not enough town players were going to pick Rose and would rather shoot. I was surprised Fire didn't pick gun as town.

[farside22]

Question for everyone:

Do you think a town eyescott wouldn't be getting pushed by scum right now when we're in possible mlyo?

I wanted to skim and see if anyone was trying to push him and...no one was. He was also a big wagon day 1 and it kinda just rubs me the wrong way that he's kinda just dismissed. I guess I just figured he would've been pushed harder.

I think it makes sense for eye to be scum given the wagon that could have happened and who wasn't on it.

Icon is taking ideas for how to shoot tonight. I think we really should all just say who and go from there. If it's me, I'm fine with that, too much WIFOM with me in this game.

[farside22]

Some homework

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=71175 modkilled D2
viewtopic.php?f=84&t=68212 scum lynched D5
viewtopic.php?f=56&t=68256 killed D8
viewtopic.php?f=56&t=67829 Endgamed as town
viewtopic.php?f=56&t=67884 her replacement endgamed as town
viewtopic.php?f=52&t=68163 lynched as scum D2
viewtopic.php?f=52&t=68703 lynched as scum D3
viewtopic.php?f=54&t=67948 endgamed as cult
viewtopic.php?f=54&t=67600 Survived but got endgamed as town
viewtopic.php?f=56&t=67479 nightkilled during intermission as town (dance game)

Thats all of the games I could spot on her first page of games played, except ongoing I think?

Nightkilled "early" as town once. Lynched/caught as scum a decent ammount. Usually survives very long as town

So I really do not see any strong case here why she would expect this to be different as town and die that early?

I certaintly dont see a reason for DC to just not question it.

Given this data, id expect her to pick N1 rose as scum more often than as town.

Nothing definitive ofcourse, the amount of guns could also very easily sway her to be cautious. But reason to be suspicious.

Also, all that reasoning in that big Farside post is fake as fuck

Pretending she was drawing conclusions because people werent cc'ing gun on D1? Yeah right

My conclusion are based on the facts of today and no CC's.
The only person who hasn't posted is Eye. Do you know if he is a gun or something?

Why did you pick N1 rose Farside?

I have been targeted N1 a lot since I started playing again

. Seemed logical.

You do realize I just started playing again 3 weeks ago. That had nothing to do with old games.
I would thought about picking gun instead but I was worried not enough town players were going to pick Rose and would rather shoot. I was surprised Fire didn't pick gun as town.

uhhuh. And you think scum would go through all that effort to look at your past shit to look for reasons?

That shit should at least give you some pause

I never said they should or would. I purposely took the lead role to be a target and soft claimed to be targeted N1.
Wow like you don't actually read prior to what was said.

[farside22]

Ico and Vecna flipping on me because I "so easily" (their words) gave them town reads is a town-tell for them. Stop fucking voting Vecna. Ico I would APPRECIATE not being shot but you do what you feel is Right bb I ain't mad at ya.

I'm getting ready for a trip so I don't have time for much rn.

Vote votato.

Just going to say this shot be sot at if venca is scum.

That is in no stretch a reason for a town read.

[farside22]

Guess thats what it is then.

Even if stotts comes in here and claims a gun, he'll get lynched. If he's town claiming a gun thatll mean that DC is scum that hasnt actually shot a gun together with Farside and they'll autowin the game.

Ergo, not really any point in thinking along the lines of him being scum, because if he is, its a moot thing anyway as he will have already won.

Congrats DC, you get to be town, begrudgingly

Just like magic there goes a town read on me.

You keep making me think I'm right about abr scum.
But hey, you do you.

And no if eye claimed gun i wouldn't lynch him. There would be a few questions and dome ubber town sorting that would screw scum over if does claim.
Do you want to wait and see if he does?
Id be happy to help the scum lose this game.

[farside22]

Mhm. To be clear, farside, my town read isn't based on that post above. Idk how you would come to that conclusion but here we are.

So what is it based on?

[farside22]

A few players (abr/venca) have already seemed to believe there is another gun player out there and I don't like that some of them are that certain of it.
Reeks of scum.
But again if I'm right I already have thought of something that helps town. If I'm wrong ignore the paranoid crazy lady.

[farside22]

Well my paranoia was infound but my vote states.

[farside22]

I have a rose.
So this confirms the 3 guns now, right?

Yes.

Well my paranoia was infound but my vote states.

Paranoia re: what?

Just the push from venca and abr about DC lying looked weird with no CC.
Put a pin in it for post game. It isn't important now.

[farside22]

Games are ongoing. Cant provide evidence thats ongoing.
One whole scum read too.
Cool story.

[farside22]

What makes you think scum has a gun venca?

[farside22]

Im your biggest scum read.
You think scum may have a gun.
So if im your biggest scum read wouldn't you want scum dead regardless? Your basically say hey icon shot in the dark and hope your right.
Your saying you don3see the bad logic on that?

[farside22]

My gutreads? Its you + farside + a third

Im not certain where and if im wrong

the one thing I do know is me surviving is the best thing I can work towards, since that will improve town odds a lot more than just spewing reads in which I have very low confidence myself atm. The fact im at least admitting my reads are shit-tier atm already makes them better than everyone faking bravado and voting me full of confidence. Because you really shouldnt be expecting me to flip scum.

Im surprised that you or anyone else would think I actively go about attacking our ICs though. Without a plan to back that up. Ive been constantly stuck in the mindset that scum WOULD eventually cc the gun guys, because not doing so is just not sensible. Why give everyone a 50% PoE when we have a lynch and another gunshot? Having 1 person do a proper gun claim changes the odds to hit scum to 25% in the gunpool and 33% in the rose pool. its a fucking stupid scum strategy, but they sure got me to look like a buffoon by using the suboptimal approach.

Thats a ad hom if i ever heard one

I think my other likely solves would be (eyestott, vecna, chkflip) (eyestott, votato, Lilith) (eyestott, votato, chkflip)

Can anyone think of any reasons why any of those teams don’t work?

Lilith/venca either chkphlip or eye. Not sure about that 3rd.

Vecna, am i gonna be reading a scum PT postgame where you’re yelling at eyestott to CC and he’s refusing

Because that would be lowkey hilarious given the posts you’ve been making this dayphase

I lol'd.

I wanna hear what everyone else thinks vecna’s alignment is

Am I tunnelling here or is he as scummy as I think?

He's scum. No way am i changing my vote. I'd put money on it. Take that check to the bank and feel secure it would not bounce.

does vecna make more sense with lillith or maria?

Lilith. She is barely pushing on him.

Eyestot is obvscum, everyone on vecna change your vote to eyestot.

Venca is obv scum sir.

You've played with me a bit I assume if you've meta'd me so you know by now everyone gets 'worried' about my slot.

I mean yes, true, but for good reason lol

I want you to be town really bad Maria, partly for game reasons and partly for out of game reasons, but I am worried the *wanting* you to be town is interfering with my ability to read you which, if totally honest, is pretty terrible at the best of times.

I also don’t know how applicable meta is here because I think we’ve gotten along pretty well this game which I think has only normally happened on my main when you’ve been scum, but idk if me being on an alt here just let us start from a point that wasn’t you disliking me and that meant that this is what playing with you is normally like when there’s not any prior history there

I hate this. Not you but firebringer was the same way to some degree. ‘Maria we only get along when you’re scum town you can’t be this nice!’ I know that’s not what you’re saying, but I really do wish people would see that I can just..play the game.

I understand why people have doubts about me it’s no secret I’m probably one of the better scum players on the site. But it’s so dishearting when you try your best as town just for people to turn on you because of who you are. I was so excited when farside and Lilth were pushing me as weird as that sounds. Because I was getting pushed for in game reasons and nothing over the fact I’m ‘Maria.’

I used to be pretty bull headed and idgaf as town, but I wanted to go into a more serious and normal approach like I did on my tryhard account. I wish everyone treated me like they did on my Elena account before they figured it was me. I don’t mind if you scumread me, I just hope it’s for stuff here.

Yo. Vecna just went to L-1 without me, ice, or don, 3 confirmed town.

Do u know what that means? It means vecna is town.

Or scum is bussing.
Can you look me ateaight in the face and say venca's play reads town?

NO

noone shoots votato

Even if eyescott is town?
Weren't you the one who agreed with me one of them has to be scum or did I take your post the wrong way?

Stott just looked dodgy as all hell voting me. Its literally the first scumping ive noted out of him all game.

Votato's reasoning on me here is so wonderfully stubborn and genuine, I can see no scum reasoning in it whatsoever.

Look at you buddying up to abr. Its so scummy.
Ill be back on tjis soon.

I can't be the only one that got hard team pings in that page of posting zzzz

???

We have
Maria Lilth farside votato Chkflip eyescott YOU

Let us remove you for obvious reasons from your pov
Maria Lilth farside votato Chkflip eyescott

Now we remove your votato tr that you've had for a bit. Now let us see what we're left with here:

Maria Lilth farside Chkflip eyescott

My issue with you is, if eyescott just started pinging you recently why haven't you been

hard

pushing Chkflip? The team isn't me farside Lilith anyone who looked at how we treated each other can gauge that interaction. Meaning 1 scum from your pov is in Chkflip/eyescott. Yet you unvote eyescott here and I haven't seen you push Chk at all?

Like, I ask for your scumreads because I wanna see where your head is at. Plus you called me scum with farside. If that's the case, why aren't you voting me? Why aren't your pushing me? Your words and your actions just don't line up to me.

This is truth ^^

[farside22]

Man i hate when pages explode. For those who didn't read the quote wall. The short end. I'd vote lilith or venca.

[farside22]

How can Vecna be scum when literally anyone that could be scum just brought him to L-1? He is clearly town.

Scum don't bus? Since when?
He is using Ad hom logic and literally is buddying you.
The writing is on the wall and not voting venca is a declaration of being his scum buddy.

[farside22]

How can Vecna be scum when literally anyone that could be scum just brought him to L-1? He is clearly town.

Scum don't bus? Since when?
He is using Ad hom logic and literally is buddying you.
The writing is on the wall and not voting venca is a declaration of being his scum buddy.

Why would scum bus at mylo following you?

All the conftown are off the wagon. That tells me something.

He's being wagoned!!! There is no reason not to vote there. They can now push a mylo based on your logic.
You want to vote lilith and we can go back to this discussion that is fine, but there is no way I believe he is town. He litterally is using a false "Why would i do that as scum" BS that scum fucking do all the fucking time!
If you could see how much I'm just looking at you ABR like you have lost your mind to listen to him as he pushes Maria and me as scum.
There is obviously no way for him to come up with a good scum team because he would have to point to his own freekin scum buddies. That is how deep that shit is that he stepped in.

*grumbles*

[farside22]

VOTE: lilith

[farside22]

I'd vote eye but I'm concerned because I don't know if it's chkflip or eye as 3rd scum.
Icon: would you shot venca?

[farside22]

VoteCount 2.2

Vecna [3] - MariaR, DonCorleone, farside22
votato [1] - chkflip
lilith2013 [1] - votato

Not Voting [5]

- Iconeum, Vecna, eyestott, Albert B. Rampage, lilith2013

With 10 alive it takes 6 votes to be chosen.

Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2020-05-12 15:35:31)

If chkflip isn’t scum then it means that either all 3 scum committed on the push, or vecna is scum who was being double bussed

Why it doesn't clear venca.

How can Vecna be scum when literally anyone that could be scum just brought him to L-1? He is clearly town.

Scum don't bus? Since when?
He is using Ad hom logic and literally is buddying you.
The writing is on the wall and not voting venca is a declaration of being his scum buddy.

Why would scum bus at mylo following you?

All the conftown are off the wagon. That tells me something.

He's being wagoned!!! There is no reason not to vote there. They can now push a mylo based on your logic.
You want to vote lilith and we can go back to this discussion that is fine, but there is no way I believe he is town. He litterally is using a false "Why would i do that as scum" BS that scum fucking do all the fucking time!
If you could see how much I'm just looking at you ABR like you have lost your mind to listen to him as he pushes Maria and me as scum.
There is obviously no way for him to come up with a good scum team because he would have to point to his own freekin scum buddies. That is how deep that shit is that he stepped in.

*grumbles*

At every point where ive been discussing connections, Ive stated that you and Maria are unlikely

And town theorize about what they would and wouldnt do as scum all the time. Its a great way to show people using flawed logic

Hard disagree about your "flawed logic"
Who are your scum reads and why?

[farside22]

The scum team is Maria + Chkflip

And one out of (Farside + lilith + Stotts)

and I really dont want it to be stotts so my townreads on D1 at least were good

And chkflip has been pretty objectively towny

but my gut......it screams

My gutreads? Its you + farside + a third

Im not certain where and if im wrong

the one thing I do know is me surviving is the best thing I can work towards, since that will improve town odds a lot more than just spewing reads in which I have very low confidence myself atm. The fact im at least admitting my reads are shit-tier atm already makes them better than everyone faking bravado and voting me full of confidence. Because you really shouldnt be expecting me to flip scum.

Im surprised that you or anyone else would think I actively go about attacking our ICs though. Without a plan to back that up. Ive been constantly stuck in the mindset that scum WOULD eventually cc the gun guys, because not doing so is just not sensible. Why give everyone a 50% PoE when we have a lynch and another gunshot? Having 1 person do a proper gun claim changes the odds to hit scum to 25% in the gunpool and 33% in the rose pool. its a fucking stupid scum strategy, but they sure got me to look like a buffoon by using the suboptimal approach.

Vecna this is the current problem I have, let us just ignore the other day because that's beating a dead horse.

Your mindset here doesn't really seem towny to me. Hell, you even stated the reason why. We don't know the spot of the game we're in we could be in auto loss could be fine could be who knows. But, you're so worried about your own lynch and own viewpoints instead of putting out your scumreads. We have 3 ics who can talk over reads and 1 that has a gun.

Giving out your scumreads right now is what we need to do and talk it over because end of the day it's 3v7 and I would like to think most of us are logical enough to relook at the game if needed. So what are these reads of yours

Okay, but you’re not giving me an actual solve, you’re giving me who might be in it and who’s conditional on being in it

Which 3 names right now do you think are most likely to end the game if we lynched/shot them all back to back?

Maria, Farside and one of stotts/votato

But I say that having no proper read on lilith whatsoever

I dont ever admit this, but my solve feels like shit this game

So yeah, im sure we'll see each other in the god thread soon and we can discuss where this all went wrong

How can Vecna be scum when literally anyone that could be scum just brought him to L-1? He is clearly town.

Scum don't bus? Since when?
He is using Ad hom logic and literally is buddying you.
The writing is on the wall and not voting venca is a declaration of being his scum buddy.

Why would scum bus at mylo following you?

All the conftown are off the wagon. That tells me something.

He's being wagoned!!! There is no reason not to vote there. They can now push a mylo based on your logic.
You want to vote lilith and we can go back to this discussion that is fine, but there is no way I believe he is town. He litterally is using a false "Why would i do that as scum" BS that scum fucking do all the fucking time!
If you could see how much I'm just looking at you ABR like you have lost your mind to listen to him as he pushes Maria and me as scum.
There is obviously no way for him to come up with a good scum team because he would have to point to his own freekin scum buddies. That is how deep that shit is that he stepped in.

*grumbles*

At every point where ive been discussing connections, Ive stated that you and Maria are unlikely

And town theorize about what they would and wouldnt do as scum all the time. Its a great way to show people using flawed logic

Just going to put this here as showing why venca is lying.
He didn't say that it was unlikely until Maria pointed out about the fights from day 1.
Now it's maria for some uknown reason and Venca continues to ignore saying about about lilith.
So if liith scum/ this is her scum buddy.

*drops mic*

[farside22]

I think that’s potentially unlikely, that we have a pool of exactly (farside, Lilith, Maria, votato, eyestott) but IF that is it I think there is almost certainly scum in (eyestott/votato) for when and how they got on, and because I don’t see a (farside, Lilith, Maria) team

Farside, Stotts, Lilith

be back soon to write a book about my logic

You should vote lilith then.

[farside22]

If we lynch lilith and she flips scum would Icon shot me just so I can have the popcorn ready to see how Venca tries to spin a new scum read?
Please!!!

[farside22]

I think that’s potentially unlikely, that we have a pool of exactly (farside, Lilith, Maria, votato, eyestott) but IF that is it I think there is almost certainly scum in (eyestott/votato) for when and how they got on, and because I don’t see a (farside, Lilith, Maria) team

Farside, Stotts, Lilith

be back soon to write a book about my logic

You should vote lilith then.

And why not stotts? or you?

Why would I listen to you after your shit?

You avoided lilith time and time again.

I know it suck that i'm town and you can't explain away everything. Its fun watching you make up shit.

*eating popcorn*

[farside22]

All youre busy doing is trying to make me look bad here or now draw connections between me and lilith Farside

There is no progression on you, just agenda. That is how it feels to me right now. The fact you cannot even take a step back and also view it from the other lens is just continuing to look bad.

And ill readily admit I have plenty of contradictions and jumps in my iso. ive stated plenty of times my logic was bad due to not having focussed enough on the new pool of suspects. The scum wouldve already known they werent going to cc the guns and were dealing with IC's. I have not had to live wtih that reality until very recent. You also know im currently playing a bunch of games.

Ive been deathtunneling DC for a significant part of the game, and ive been working under the general assumption that lilith has been a lot more towny than a significant part of the playerlist.

Ive also ignored you for the majority of the game.

Ill own all that shit, no problem.

And even after all those flaws ill come out proving im town. So tough luck for scum, and tough luck for you if youre part of that group.

Gee i wonder why i find you scummy. Nevermind the back and forth of trying not to lynch lilith.

I’m still thinking it’s vecna tbh

Yup.

lilith has offered zero game solves. I don't buy anything she says.

Her "fuck it" knightmare vote yesterday is scummy.

POE says she's scum.

Her vecna vote with all the unconfirmed is bad.

The evidence is too strong.

Well i dont see it from chkflip either. Or eye. Both sould say who there scum reading and why.

Farside is just trying to bury me in "my townyness will destroy you

This made me lol.

[farside22]

also, I'd like to see anything resembling solving from chkflip before the day ends

Wrong neighborhood.

I will vote you.

Farside, youre either scum or you need to take that ego down a bunch of notches

Youre hard tunneling on town and most people in this game can see that by now

Sure let me through shit reads day 2, show no problem solving and you will call me town.
Pfft.
You tried every angle to paint me as scum and you can't do it without poor logic or crearing a narrative.

If they were planning on bussing and smart or FB are right, they just kill me/don and sheep smart/FB into their buddy, then kill off FB/smart later

It doesnt make sense for them to kill smart and FB without an all in strategy involving all 3 scum surviving

You 2 kept saying you were going to kill each other. Why no CC day 2 when it was clear that didnt happen is crazy.

[farside22]

Let me leave this question for everyone because I thought this was obvious while I go do something.

Why did scum shoot roses over guns and not cc?

^

They aren't paying attention? They thought dc/abr would shot each other?
They are newbs?

I find the lack of CC more interesting.

[farside22]

I dont particularly like either the Eyestott or the Potato wagon.

He's a unicorn ffs. You can trust him!

VoteCount 1.6

eyestott [4] -

Knightmare491

,

SirCakez

,

Firebringer

,

Albert B. Rampage

Knightmare491

[2] -

eyestott

,

DonCorleone

votato [4] -

lilith2013

,

farside22

,

Iconeum

,

chkflip

Iconeum

[1] -

votato

farside22

[1] -

Vecna

Firebringer

[1] -

MariaR

Not Voting [1]

- Something_Smart

With 14 alive it takes 8 votes to be chosen.

Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2020-05-02 23:35:31)

Nah, not even close. ooooh pretty colors. Unicorn inspired no doubt

Lets lynch cakez and give ABR the joy of shooting DC tonight

why arent u responding to my plan ABR?

Your plan doesnt work without firebringer and im not changing votes. You with me or against me and knowing our history I dont blame you to be against me

I havent made up my mind. I think theres like a 60% chance or more youre stuck in a TvT here and that cakez and co are sitting on the sidelines fanning the flames

Didnt DC destroy the maria wagon?

He was also heavily appealing me to change my opinion there

I look forward to post game when I can go back through ABR's pronouncements on my scum-ness once it's outed that I'm town.

This sounds like you really believe he's town.

I'm starting to believe it, yes. It has the hallmarks of intense arrogance rather than fakery which while more irritating (especially because apparently nobody can see that he's full of shit) is also more town. I've been tunnelled by the players who need to try and show that they have the biggest dick in town in their pants before and this is reminiscent. I'm vigging him tonight regardless if I live though.

This is just starting to look like theater now

Like an act

Maybe this whole ABR vs DC thing is SvS

Then the next question is whether he would go so far as to openly defend scum buddy Maria.

Maria had some decent enough reasons to scumread me early on (well they were not good reasons, but I could see a town doing a hurried catchup could latch onto those).

Another question is whether ABR vs DC could be SvS. The wagon diffused so quickly (I still have to read that part of the game actually), and I dont think town ABR would suddenly give up on it so quickly without solid reason. The fact neither of those ended up shooting eachother is also highly suspicious after the activity between those two.

Still think Votato is likely town. The slot feels pretty genuine in the way its blundering about. Nothing it says makes sense, so there must be some weird town crazy behind that.

I have had a gut townread on Eyestott for his first 5 posts or whatever since the start of the game. It might be a very bad reason. I dont know if I can do an unbiased revisit of that slot.

Lilith and Farside are just like, a blur. I dont think I could see a farside scum here due to her devellopments, but I also bet she could fool me easily. Lilith is just an unreadable slot to me, and I dont think I can be trusted to have a proper read there.

Chkflip feels so towny in everything he does, but I still have a gut feeling something is wrong there. Im not gonna be able to get that lynched, and actually persuing that will just mean I get lynched today. If he is scum, town loses this game regardless I feel. So better to just treat that slot as scum.

I feel like im missing a person maybe?

Regardless, my likely solve is ABR + DC + lilith, but any combination of two of those + 1 slot im wrong about would do just fine

I got tired of quoting things, but the tldr is venca changes his read dependant on where the votes flow. That is not a town mentality.
And then just for funz i highlighted his first comment day 2.
So apparently the only claimed gun players that are virtual IC should have shot each other.

[farside22]

Farside how do you like my logic here? Am I off on, etc. Because that's the only reason I see why you wouldn't cc a gun claim or shoot into guns (unless you assumed abr and don would shoot each other)

I would've asked questions to a cc'ed player. You also have 6 players to sort through vs 7.
And icon has a shot tonight so there could be fear of being outted and the shot n2.

[farside22]

VOTE: chkflip

[farside22]

I keep flip-flopping here.

I state FArside is probably town for her conviction of pushing me, and she comes out and start quoting my entire ISO trying to frame all the things I was wrong on as scummy.

Never seen town farside do that. Im not sure if she's just really upset she hasnt gotten my lynch yet, or scum trying to look busy and looking to actually convince people and capitalize on my earlier statement

Flip flop seems to be the name of your game here.
Why stop now.

[farside22]

I keep flip-flopping here.

I state FArside is probably town for her conviction of pushing me, and she comes out and start quoting my entire ISO trying to frame all the things I was wrong on as scummy.

Never seen town farside do that. Im not sure if she's just really upset she hasnt gotten my lynch yet, or scum trying to look busy and looking to actually convince people and capitalize on my earlier statement

Flip flop seems to be the name of your game here.
Why stop now.

Im happy for you that you feel you can be so certain. If youre town here and you do end up lynching me, thatll change tomorrow

And im completely fine with flip-flopping around a lot. This is actually a difficult situation to solve.

It probably would be for you as well if you could look beyond your current error.

And to add some more flip-floppity to this post: Scum only have 4 people they can target for their strategy here. They must lynch one of 4 people. They will appear certain here.

Yet noone is really targetting you here farside except for me. maybe youre not part of those 4?

I'd feel bad if I actually saw you attacking Lilith more. Or chkflip, or eye.
The majority of you scum read centers on me from the start. I would fight with lilith but she is actively lurking and I'm sure she is just hoping to stay out of the spot light.
Not going to lie that I'm not feeling paranoid about Maria a bit.
In the end i think a flip of you, Lilith, Maria or me would give info. I don't see players thinking outside those pairs.

[farside22]

I have some RL and work stuff happening atm and haven’t checked in on any of my games since yesterday. farside accusing me of “actively lurking” is way off base and patently untrue, and idk how she comes to that conclusion or what information she is using to infer that I am.

New theory is farside/votato given they were on both wagons today. 3rd is maybe eyestott. Can’t post again until after work today.

Bettlejuice!

VOTE: lilith

When its called out it comes on to post. Just tell me your reading without posting much.

[farside22]

Hey Lilith how would you feel about voting for eyestott?

He wasn’t in my initial lynchpool tbh. I think I missed why everyone is scumreading him?

I don’t actually see anyone giving reasoning for voting me. Can anyone currently on my wagon give me something I can engage with?

I just quoted for you my reasoning though

I don’t understand why you’re voting me instead of maria since she seems to be your strongest scumread. Is it because DC won’t wagon her with you?

Vecna/chkflip I disagree with because I still think scum have to be on any wagon. Chkflip defending scum!vecna isn’t towny and Vecna’s reads re:chkflip are all over the place while afaik chkflip’s read on Vecna has not change at all over the course of this game.

lilith has offered zero game solves. I don't buy anything she says.

I’m still at vecna/chkflip/(one of maria/eyestott/votato) and I said as much yesterday. You still haven’t answered me about why scum wouldn’t have been on vecna’s wagon.

Her "fuck it" knightmare vote yesterday is scummy.

Really? Deadline lynch vote is scummy?

I can’t really argue with the other two things because from the reasoning you’re using, I am scum by PoE. I just think the reasoning is wrong (ie you’re building your PoE around a town!vecna wagon being driven by scum when I think it could just be bussing).

I'm going to hard read likith scum with eyd based on her post.
I also find it odd she isn't pushing others to vote with her. Like i see abr and dc trying to figure things out. Maybe venca (i don't like admitting anything nice about him because he reads scummy) even looks like he is pushing his scum read.
With lilith there isnt much of a progession or concetn that other have projected today about reads.

[farside22]

Wow i really need to proff read my post.

[farside22]

Wow i really need to proff read my post.

ironic.

Would you like to add more salt to my wounded soul?

[farside22]

[quote=mod]If there are no Town-aligned player who picked a rose, Mafia immediately wins the game, regardless of whether there are any living Mafia members in the game.[/quote]

[farside22]

The number of people who assume scum all picked gun is very telling.

[farside22]

chkflip is refusing to engage with anyone.

yup.

I responded to a bunch of Vecna posts explaining why I was scumreading him and also responding to his case post on me and never got a response

Farside has been announcing how strongly she scumreads me but hasn’t actually engaged with me at all since D1. Like her posts about scumreading me are directed towards other people and she’s not actually talking to me. In all of her other pushes this game she has had back and forths with the person she was pushing but she’s barely spoken to me D2 even though I’m apparently her strongest scumread.

Pretty sure I have done that with all my scum reads.

[farside22]

I responded to a bunch of Vecna posts explaining why I was scumreading him and also responding to his case post on me and never got a response

Farside has been announcing how strongly she scumreads me but hasn’t actually engaged with me at all since D1. Like her posts about scumreading me are directed towards other people and she’s not actually talking to me. In all of her other pushes this game she has had back and forths with the person she was pushing but she’s barely spoken to me D2 even though I’m apparently her strongest scumread.

And every time I engage with you, some how you magically aren't here to talk back.

But sure, lets pretend it's a thing that isn't false for a moment.
You basically look to use anyone to butter up to to jump on a wagon. You never even engaged with S_S after your supposed scum read on him from the beginning. You dropped any scum read that didn't pan out and let others fight while doing nothing to continue it. You were willing to vote a player you called town based on them having a similar mind set but one read that you disagreed with was a good enough reason to be "convinced" to vote them.
You basically are floating by with no really push on anyone most of this game.

[farside22]

? I put farside/votato/maybe eyestott as my latest theory based on D2 wagons

Oh and you can explain why votato and I look like scum together with all my pushing on him day 1.
*eats popcorn*

[farside22]

Not going to do a large quote wall war here.
I hammered and tunnelled votato to death and ignoring all that just to claim you (lilth) started it, is not exactly a point in favor of me scum with him.
If i seriously need to quite the number of time lilth called me town this game to dispute her null comment let me know.

[farside22]

Those with reading issue

Already said this was because you were basically null but you were on the DC wagon

That was a comment lilith just said. Now go back to end of day 1 and see how many times she says town read on me but doesnt like my vote on DC and could be convinced to vote me.

[farside22]

Lilith what's making you change your mind on Farside when she was your top townread?
Also I don't suppose I'm the one who can convince you no?~

The reason she was my top townread was because I felt like her posts were incredibly in tune with my own thoughts. With her joining the DC wagon and refusing to see DC as possibly town, I no longer feel that way - I mean the entire time I was reading her posts @ DC I was just shocked at how strong her confbias was. In retrospect she had been confbiasing previously on other slots, but at those times I was agreeing with her arguments and now I’m not. Is that a dumb way to read someone? Idk

You’re still in my lynchpool but idk you could try to convince me on farside

In a world with farside town I think my main scumreads would be:

Lilith: I've already explained how I think some of her emotions were planned/overblown you can go back and look at the case for that so I'll leave that part out. I think her taking the sidelines during the whole ABR/Don situation was her trying to fan the flames without getting involved. Her top townread farside suddenly goes to 'yeah I could vote her' while that in and of itself isn't so bad, her reasoning is because farside is tunneling people? Something her meta is known for that Lilth already knows about. Bare in mind they were basically 2 peas in a pod at one point. This is after me and Don start putting a little heat on her as well.

Vecna: I think Vecna has had a lot of his reads flip flop with bare minimum follow up. He questions Cakez recently on why Cakez is townreading him when this is 'one of his more scummy games' Along with the fact his tone changed when he was under pressure for a vote like he was appealing to Don. He got this wrong when I talked to him, but when I corrected him he went with the same excuse of 'interpret it how you want' I can also throw in some useless shading but you get the point.

After that? I'd look in: (Firebringer/Iconeum/votato) everyone else I have some degree of reason to townread.

This mischaracterizes my read on farside - I didn’t say she dropped in my reads due to tunneling but rather due to our thought processes no longer lining up, when her thoughts mirroring mine was the whole reason I was townreading her in the first place. I realized it when she started tunneling DC but I already said I think tunneling itself is just her playstyle.

In a world with farside town I think my main scumreads would be:

Lilith: I've already explained how I think some of her emotions were planned/overblown you can go back and look at the case for that so I'll leave that part out. I think her taking the sidelines during the whole ABR/Don situation was her trying to fan the flames without getting involved. Her top townread farside suddenly goes to 'yeah I could vote her' while that in and of itself isn't so bad, her reasoning is because farside is tunneling people? Something her meta is known for that Lilth already knows about. Bare in mind they were basically 2 peas in a pod at one point. This is after me and Don start putting a little heat on her as well.

Vecna: I think Vecna has had a lot of his reads flip flop with bare minimum follow up. He questions Cakez recently on why Cakez is townreading him when this is 'one of his more scummy games' Along with the fact his tone changed when he was under pressure for a vote like he was appealing to Don. He got this wrong when I talked to him, but when I corrected him he went with the same excuse of 'interpret it how you want' I can also throw in some useless shading but you get the point.

After that? I'd look in: (Firebringer/Iconeum/votato) everyone else I have some degree of reason to townread.

This mischaracterizes my read on farside - I didn’t say she dropped in my reads due to tunneling but rather due to our thought processes no longer lining up, when her thoughts mirroring mine was the whole reason I was townreading her in the first place. I realized it when she started tunneling DC but I already said I think tunneling itself is just her playstyle.

I am doing my best to get this game back on a level of working together with fighting or backlash.
I know my reads are all over. I get tunnel, i move, i tunnel, i get bitchy.
I accept that, i appologize, but if we can consoliate our reads we could lynch scum.

So i read maria post and i would go with venca/knight.
I can conceed its possible lilth was buddying me as scum and im not seeing it that way.
Idk

Epwop:
Fire who are you scum reading.

Are you still scumreading maria?

No.
I can explain if you want.

Yes please

Also lil who are your top 2 scum reads?

I’ve been flip flopping on maria in my head. Like I disagree with a lot of stuff she says but I think maybe she just believes it and is wrong. Her frustration about not being able to engage with you also felt genuine. So I guess chkflip and vecna?

both post are fence sitting.
Also how can you see both maria and i as scum together with all the fighting between us?

I mean someone else that is not maria or venca can tell me if I'm wrong about those post from Lilith.
I don't see her taking a stand and I see her leaving options for both me and maria scum but then saying she see's we could be town but then willing to vote either of us.
If I'm wrong, some one tell me why.

I removed maria from my top lynchpool already
You’re also not in my top lynchpool
Could I be convinced to vote either? Yes, but currently I’m not prepared to.
I’m not saying I have the game solved at all and I don’t try to pin down a whole team or whatever and I’m also not even saying you’re both scum

I also am not sure where you see that I’m scumreading you because I’m pretty sure I just said you dropped in my townreads

Also I don’t think it’s totally out of left field that your reaction to DC being completely opposite of mine caused me to question why I was townreading you and subsequently whether I should townread you.

There is a lot her, but it just reinterates what i said at the end of day 1. Lilith read was based on one vote.
She fence sat between 2 players. Then says she isnt scum reading either Maria or me but would lynch either.
She keeps saying she is transparent but her town read is basically disolved once others scum read me. So yes it reads fake for fake reads.

[farside22]

Her post basically wanting her cake and eating it without saying she wants cake

[farside22]

you dropped it around the time that other wagons started forming, I'm saying it's not out of the question for that to be a SvS since it stopped so suddenly

Thats a joje right? How many times did players call me out for tunneling votato? Is that seriously your best answer?

Your reasons for a sudden turn was crap. And no you had maria and Dc both scum reading me at that time.

[farside22]

Then says she isnt scum reading either Maria or me but would lynch either.

How is this different from you saying “these are the people I have no read or scum read on” and lynching within those?

Town read to sure id lynch that is not a progression of changing your mind.

[farside22]

You can dance around that, dance around it with colorful words but that is exactly what you did lilth.

[farside22]

All that said, lilith and venca continue to barely interact or attack each other.
Gee i would why?

[farside22]

I don’t feel confident enough that any of the active and posting slots is scum over any of the bad slots who are not producing content. If I have to choose between flipping one or the other here I’d rather try to do a lower content slot so it can’t be mislynch bait in mylo/lylo tomorrow, even if it’s a gamble that the game doesn’t end tonight.

So far I’m unpersuaded that Lilith is scum. If I change my mind when I’m planning to try to read through the game so far tomorrow I might change my mind. You going off on how I’m an egotistical bastard isn’t going to have that effect, regardless of the truth value or not of that statement

I am going to keep this brief.
Lilith has not made a case to why I am scum. If you read back she is using interactions with non flips to provide a case and my push on DC.
That is it. Whereas she changed her views depending on what others are saying. She did it again just now.
Venca did not make a case why i was scum. He basically called my rose claim fake (at first) then called it scummy.
Again thats it.
You want to chase those lurkers I'd vote eye or chk but i swear i have no clue which. Id lean on eye based on wagon analysis

[farside22]

Oh and its freeking 5am and this fucking game got into my sleep. I hate it.

[farside22]

VOTE: eyestot

I have no right to ask you for anything here, but in the case this does flip town, please shoot chkflip

If its scum follow your own gut I guess.

The scumteam probably just is Eyestott + Maria + chkflip here

Maaaaaybe with an outside chance of Farside, but id be happy killing off all those 3 other slots first

Just curious about why you tell Icon to shot chkflip if eye is town but then list him as scum with eye.

[farside22]

VOTE: eyestot

I have no right to ask you for anything here, but in the case this does flip town, please shoot chkflip

If its scum follow your own gut I guess.

The scumteam probably just is Eyestott + Maria + chkflip here

Maaaaaybe with an outside chance of Farside, but id be happy killing off all those 3 other slots first

Just curious about why you tell Icon to shot chkflip if eye is town but then list him as scum with eye.

Because Votato is my ride or die townread, and as has been argued (but should maybe be revisited) the scumteam is unlikely to be Lilith + Maria + Farside

So if Stott flips town, that pretty much means that chkflip is going to flip red after eating a bullet

That really doesn't explain it. It's like a walk around response.
The way you have it listed is chkflip is scum regardless of alignment?? It's a question because you have scum with eye, but Icon should shot who he wants if eye is scum.
If eye is town shot chpflip?
You clearly listed chpflip as scum with eye. So I'm just confused if you think chkflip is scum or it's your not sure.

[farside22]

VOTE: eyestot

I have no right to ask you for anything here, but in the case this does flip town, please shoot chkflip

If its scum follow your own gut I guess.

The scumteam probably just is Eyestott + Maria + chkflip here

Maaaaaybe with an outside chance of Farside, but id be happy killing off all those 3 other slots first

Just curious about why you tell Icon to shot chkflip if eye is town but then list him as scum with eye.

Because Votato is my ride or die townread, and as has been argued (but should maybe be revisited) the scumteam is unlikely to be Lilith + Maria + Farside

So if Stott flips town, that pretty much means that chkflip is going to flip red after eating a bullet

That really doesn't explain it. It's like a walk around response.
The way you have it listed is chkflip is scum regardless of alignment?? It's a question because you have scum with eye, but Icon should shot who he wants if eye is scum.
If eye is town shot chpflip?
You clearly listed chpflip as scum with eye. So I'm just confused if you think chkflip is scum or it's your not sure.

This is nonsense

If stott is scum, the number of possible combinations increases by an order of magnitude

If he is town, given my assumptions, it narrows down to only 2 possible scenarios:

1:Maria + Farsight + Lilith as a team - aka the one noone wants to explore where chkflip is town
2: Chkflip + 2 of (maria/lilith/Farside)

Thus, if stott flips town, chkflip is guaranteed scum to me unless it is exactly scenario 1

1) is nonsense based on the game as a whole and I'd expect better analsys from someone i played with in double mafia
2) see one.

Basically you threw everyone (except votato) as scum ignoring everything that happened in the game.

This isn't even POE.
You keep acting though i should town read you for a reason that sees someone trying to figure the game out and all i see is throwing shit out to see if it sticks.

[farside22]

I kicked myself by the end of day 1 for not picking gun. I totally would have shot Lilith that night.
I didn't see Mariah/Lilith scum together till POE day 3. GG to the scum team.

[farside22]

wait shit wrong account

I glossed over the who has a better game dialogue between titus and abr.
I think everyone plays differently and no one player plays the best game.
I know DC was mad at how I did him dirty, but its a fine line playing these games where people relays on meta that at times you need to do some scummy things to not always be town read.
Is it wrong? I don't think so. I think breaking down and taking things personally is a bit over the top.
But thats my opinion. Abr can be a bit of a bully as scum and town. I don't always like it but I dont hate him. Just smack him a few things to settle down and trust me we have a history.
Long story short, I think scum played this well. Better then town. I see after how they interact day 1. I think the lurking from maria was a bit disapointing but since she wasn't under pressure i cant blame her.