Death to all elves and faeries !
Mystery Mafia 2- Game Over! But who won!?
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
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- Location: France
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1204
- Joined: February 20, 2008
- Location: France
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1204
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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Unvote
4 reasons :
- Although I don't have much experience, I've never come across scum able to kill during the day.
- More importantly, someone with such huge power (unlimited daykills) would be instant win for scum (Kill:town A, Kill:town B, Kill:town C, etc). So I think he's town. His role *only* makes sense as town.
- I can't picture scum bussing this way, a couple posts into the game.
- not unvoting would be akin to suicide, and suiciding, like self-voting, is bad.All lurkers unite! And jump off the nearest cliff. Now.-
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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I don't like his play as well, but that does not mean he's scum. Build a case against him before trying to kill him.Nightson wrote:
This is not protown, this is nowhere near protown.mnowax wrote:UNVOTE ME NOW OR YOU WILL BE NEXT!!!
(hehe didn't bold it )
Until you're willing to work with the town killing you is the only option.All lurkers unite! And jump off the nearest cliff. Now.-
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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Err, I don't follow you on both these :populartajo wrote:that scum obviously has a way to communicate during day.
...
Since the scum have nice roles
- How do you know that scum can communicate during the day ?
- Nice roles ? Where did you get this since Alabaska J was a normal Mafia Goon ?
FoS: populartajoAll lurkers unite! And jump off the nearest cliff. Now.-
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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I'm not so sure about that. Scum do not really have to communicate during the day to be efficient.populartajo wrote:Im trying to outguess the mod. Those were just hypothesis that could be tur or be developed as long the game progresses.
I think scum can communicate during day since we know we have new players (new scum included) and that they should have a way to catch up with each other.
I think he was indeed lying, as shows post 37 (which had "fake role claimer panics" all over it in my opinion) and the fact that he was killed anyway.populartajo wrote:And yes Alabaska was a Goon (so did he lie about his powers, fakeclaim given by the mod?)All lurkers unite! And jump off the nearest cliff. Now.-
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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Does your role speciafically says you can retract kills ? Because otherwise, I have trouble with the concept of resurrection...mnowax wrote:its ok folks. i didn't bold the last one. this one i did. no kill will go thorugh.
Now you're saying that the number of knives is limited ? Because if they are :mnowax wrote:( the funny part is i m all outta knives) shush don'ttell anyone... )
- Why the *hell* did you waste them on arbitrary killing ? You could have worked as a way to give town multiple lynches per day, as Patrick said... I won't really blame you, as 1/2 is hell of a good rating, but still, that's really irrational ;
- I can throw my best argument about your being town right into the bin (though some of it is left : it would still be extremely powerful for scum) ;
- Did you have 2 or 3 knives ? In short, was populartajo actually shot at or not ?All lurkers unite! And jump off the nearest cliff. Now.-
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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Wow. I was thinking this was unlikely, as the power would have unpredictable effects depending on the time BM checks the thread.Dasquian wrote:OK, so that's proof that mnowax can legally retract his kills. mnowax, can we please have your agreement to some level of cooperation?
Seems I was wrong though.
It also means Alabaska J was killed by mistake, as mnowax apparently wanted to retract the kill and would have done so if he hadn't forgotten to bold it.
Does that mean he's been playing with us and was planning to retract it from the start ? Hmm I don't think so, as there are 13 hours between the kill order and the retractation - huge risk of BM coming and hammering him.
mnowax is still pro-town for me.All lurkers unite! And jump off the nearest cliff. Now.-
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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populartajo wrote:Claim : Miller.Take that BM.
@populartajo : are you saying your role post forces you to make random claims unless you get modkilled ? With what frequency, each page you post in ? every 2 real days ?populartajo wrote:Claim : Jester.
The mod told me to.All lurkers unite! And jump off the nearest cliff. Now.-
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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Two for one, considering the usual scum/town ratios i've seen used, isn't a good enough ratio for scum.Greasy Spot wrote:I don't agree with you on this. Mnowax shouldn't be confirmed Town just because it would be too gutsy of a move to daykill as Mafia. He could have killed his partner as a plan to look towny. Think about it, 1 towny DK, 1 mafia DK, and 1 towny NK tonight. Looks pretty good for the scum.
Although it might make sense in case there are more scums than usual, but that would imply that scum roles are vastly inferior to town's. And that wouldn't be the case if mnowax was town (as his powers are far from negligible), so I don't think your reasoning stands.All lurkers unite! And jump off the nearest cliff. Now.-
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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Scum also win if you don't survive. It's true that scum cling more to life than townies (at least, than vanilla townies), but no one, scum or town, would want to suicide. Just think about the reactions self-voters usually get. Standing in front of a truck going at full speed isn't a good idea, whichever your side is.mnowax wrote:you protested to much to me having sucha huge power for a dayvig, and you gave up instantly, as if you were scum.
DGB just sumbitted to me without any explanation buthe wats to survive. If you are town you win even if you dont survive. scum want to stay alive.
Also, Nightson unvoted without a reason too, why didn't you attack him as well ? Besides, Nightson was the first to vote you, and you also didn't directly threaten him back then...All lurkers unite! And jump off the nearest cliff. Now.-
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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Well, I'm pretty, from having playing a non-standard role in one of BM's games before, that if he didn't specifically said you can't (it usually says you'll be modkilled if you don't comply) , you can.populartajo wrote:Ok I dont know if I can explain. Ill ask BM first. Mod, can I talk about your confusion?
Not sure I like this : quite far-fetched if you ask me, from just a single sentence from us... I mean, it is quite obvious to me that a posting restriction can be given to town or scum, and both sides could have easily come up with what Nightson and I said.populartajo wrote:BTW, Nightson and lordhur are probably town.
Although this is only a possibility, it could be seen as suspected scum trying to get fast on some townies' good side in case they get in lynch range.
Still not enough for a vote, but I'll renew my FoS on him.All lurkers unite! And jump off the nearest cliff. Now.-
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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Bleh, shouldn't post when I'm half asleep.
EBWOP :
lord_hur wrote:Well, I'm prettysure, from having playeda non-standard role in one of BM's games before, that if he didn't specifically said you can't (it usually says you'll be modkilled if you don't comply), you can.All lurkers unite! And jump off the nearest cliff. Now.-
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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I don't have much time, but I just wanted to say that I read the few last posts and I don't like that wagon.
Yes some of his reasoning was defective, but I didn't get any scummy feeling from Greasy Spot.
Right now, ashmite84 (active lurking, unbacked up vote), Nightson (lurking) or populartajo look like better choices to me.All lurkers unite! And jump off the nearest cliff. Now.-
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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Mainly because I myself have been tempted once (in another game of course) to self-vote out of sheer frustration, and I was town.populartajo wrote:
Please. Tell me how this post doesnt make you think this guy is scum.Greasy Spot wrote:Flick all of ya'll. Go Scum.
vote: Greasy Spot
I was gonna do this earlier this morning but decided to hold off. You spineless people make me sick.
And I can see where he would get his frustration. I know you can't really expect to have very sound reasons day 1, but the reasons used against him are still pretty thin.
So I actually got a town vibe out of his reaction.
That said, switching now looks too late to not risk a no-lynch, so I guess we're stuck with him as a lynch...All lurkers unite! And jump off the nearest cliff. Now.-
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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What is this "scummy reaction" you are refering to ?DrippingGoofball wrote:
We still have three days. I'm in a few games with Greasy Spot and he's not known for the kind of scummy reaction he is displaying here.Dasquian wrote:What are your thoughts?
I will hammer if need be.All lurkers unite! And jump off the nearest cliff. Now.-
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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Vel-Rahn Koon wrote:Yes, but as town, how many times have you been tempted to self-hammer and say "Go Scum"? If you really are town, and you're cheering for the other team to win, I think you need to take a few months off and come back later on with a fresh perspective.
That time, I could very well have said that, had I posted. All it takes is a really bad day at work. Thankfully, I just went to bed.
That said, I'm not saying that I have standard reactions, only that *I* could have done that as town.All lurkers unite! And jump off the nearest cliff. Now.-
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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Sorry about messing up the quotes on Vel-Rahn-Koon's message.
Dasquian wrote:So what does that mean, lord_hur? Do you think he's town now?
See post 154.
See end of post 175.Dasquian wrote:Do you think we should not lynch him?
But if enough people settle on someone else and promise to vote before the deadline, I would participate. That could accidentally cause a no-lynch though, so I'm not sure it's a good idea.All lurkers unite! And jump off the nearest cliff. Now.-
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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I must admit I agree with him.Dasquian wrote:I am not onboard with any course of action that might cost us our lynch.
Nor am I onboard with any course of action that puts a potential cop or doctor in the noose 30 minutes before deadline.
RUSH-LYNCHES ARE BAD NEWS FOR THE TOWN. I cannot stress this enough.
In particular, let's not lynch unless the person gets to claim. It may be obvious, but by saying it, scum won't be able to get away saying "oh sorry, but you see, we were in such a hurry...".All lurkers unite! And jump off the nearest cliff. Now.-
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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Well, I was talking about switching to another person. And I'm not as positive as you on the number of scum involved in your wagon. One seems reasonable, but two ? Much less likely taking my previous experience into account.Greasy Spot wrote:
"Oh sorry, but you see, this is just stupid". Scum are already on this wagon. If by some chance scum are not involved then I don't want to be here anyway.lord_hur wrote:
I must admit I agree with him.Dasquian wrote:I am not onboard with any course of action that might cost us our lynch.
Nor am I onboard with any course of action that puts a potential cop or doctor in the noose 30 minutes before deadline.
RUSH-LYNCHES ARE BAD NEWS FOR THE TOWN. I cannot stress this enough.
In particular, let's not lynch unless the person gets to claim. It may be obvious, but by saying it, scum won't be able to get away saying "oh sorry, but you see, we were in such a hurry...".All lurkers unite! And jump off the nearest cliff. Now.-
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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What are you smoking, Vel-Rahn Koon and I posted like 2 hours ago.DrippingGoofball wrote:MOD: please prod Nightson, Lord Hur, Vel-Rahn Koon, Patrick
Now the non-voters have two options, not just one.
Dasquian's obsession to not try anything is strange indeed, but he does make excellent points.
As much as I don't like populartajo's play, we're stuck with Greasy Spot's lynch.
I think your attempt was good DGB. It only came too late : we should have planned another possible lynch way before. But I guess all the stuff that happened with mnowax prevented us to. Let's not make the same mistake day 2.
See you tomorrow for the last day, I'll be there to hammer if necessary.All lurkers unite! And jump off the nearest cliff. Now.-
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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Hmm... Are you saying you are under a posting restriction when you post this ?populartajo wrote:
Do me a favor and lynch this player tomorrow. They are going to kill me tonight.DrippingGoofball wrote:
Excellent question!lord_hur wrote:What are you smoking, Vel-Rahn Koon and I posted like 2 hours ago.
Anyway, noted. If you are indeed town and killed tonight (how do you know?), we will fry her. Or at least I will try to.All lurkers unite! And jump off the nearest cliff. Now.-
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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Completely beats me. I assume that is an anti-town role since she was in red, but past that...Dasquian wrote:Anyone know what "Screwball" might mean? I've never heard of such a role before.
I can't be sure either that she was of the same group than Alabaska J, because BM usually paints all anti-town roles in red (see elemental mafia : there were 4 anti-town groups + 1 SK, all in red).
And that's not even sure that she was anti-town : maybe that role was to "screw with us" by turning up anti-town while she was in fact town.
I must admit I'm lost here. If anyone has any idea, go ahead.All lurkers unite! And jump off the nearest cliff. Now.-
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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Hmm that's strange that you say that... if we're assuming mafia+werewolves, how would DGB not be mafia, since (still under this assumption) she would have been eaten by a werewolf ? I kinda doubt there would be 3 anti-town groups for a 12-player game.Dasquian wrote:Mafia and werewolves seems most likely; I still don't know where that puts DGB, though.All lurkers unite! And jump off the nearest cliff. Now.-
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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This is true for this last week, but not for the weeks before.ashmite84 wrote:I didn't keep quiet on purpose. I haven't had time to properly post, and I'm having the same trouble and drawing assessments like you've given me inallmy ongoings.All lurkers unite! And jump off the nearest cliff. Now.-
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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First,Unvote remussaidow
Err I'm kinda lost about this part. First you say you would lynch mnowax, then that he could not logically be scum (using the same argument that I myself used back then, btw).remussaidow wrote:UNLESS Mnowax is on the gallows. Seriously, have you done anything to benefit the town since you terrorized everyone? I haven't seen a post with any game related substance from except things like "no information" and following other people's opinions. Unless you think that randomly killing two people and luckily happening to hit one of them as scum is "substance." Just as an FYI, the reason I'm not worried about dying from saying all this is because no one who is town aligned would waste a daykill on these observations. So if you do kill me, the rest of the town knows just who they can go ahead and lynch just as fast as possible. There's also the point of you have to have some sort of restriction on it if you're scum, since otherwise you would have won already. Hell, if I were scum with the ability you seemed to have claimed you had, I'd have ended the game in my first post. Scummy day one actions and nothing particularly townish taking place makes me think that you are the scummiest townie that I have EVER seen. However, this statement is including the rare chance that you just can't have had your power as a scum.
Also, Mnowax, if you (unlikely as I think it is) can still daykill people, I think its best if you tell them that you're going to kill them, they claim, and then you can go ahead and kill them as you see fit. Benefits town and all that.
I think a "WTF?" is in order here, and maybe a FoS unless I misunderstood something.All lurkers unite! And jump off the nearest cliff. Now.-
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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Well, on first read (and even after rereading it several times), that's not what I understood from your previous post.Dasquian wrote:No, I mean that Nightson was being pilloried for lurking and when he got replaced it proved that he wasn't lurking: he was actually gone. Thus the "Nightson is avoiding attention!" case evaporated as remussaidow replaced in and proved himself to be rather chatty.
This I do agree on though.All lurkers unite! And jump off the nearest cliff. Now.-
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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A couple hours till deadline, and the only possible lynch is ashmite84. My options are pretty limited. Although I think it is not a bad choice. He's not been playing much, and his last post wasn't so convincing in my opinion.
Only this time, my vote will not be enough to secure a lynch. Still, here it is :
vote : ashmite84All lurkers unite! And jump off the nearest cliff. Now.-
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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Holy s..., NINE days? If we don't count the week-end (low activity), that's one week ><
Doc's gone, but at least there was only one kill.
Hmm if a doctor is killed during the night, is his protection still working for that night? I guess yes, and that would explain why there was only 1 kill...
Or maybe this second kill was the work of the "vengeful vigilante", whatever this exactly is? (doesn't work that well flavor-wise though, vigs use guns no?)
But anyway, we still don't have enough info + this setup looks overly complicated, and scumhunting is more important.
As for me, of all my suspects since the beginning of the game, only Nightson (now remussaidow) is left, and lack of activity didn't work as an argument for ashmite84, plus remussaidow has picked up a lot, even if his attack on mnowax is still not convincing me... Not that good of a lynch candidate right now imho...
Patrick is quite townie in my opinion : didn't disagree with any of his posts, his votes' reasons were a bit light, but mine weren't that much better. His activity is a bit on a light side also, but better than some.
mnowax : remussaidow's arguments made me think, but I still consider him very likely town. Granted, I don't have that much imagination, but given what we saw day 1, I can't think of a role restriction that would allow him not to win immediately.
VRK : no activity for ages, didn't commit himself to *any* vote yet. None of his posts appeared as scummy to me yet (except when he said he would hammer Greasy Spot, and didn't show up to do it), but with this little activity, it's hard to form an opinion.
Kison : nothing yet, except mod said he's a survivor of last game, and in that one he was scum... Wifom I know. But why was he introduced alone ?
Right now, I'm suspecting VRK mainly. He could appear a lot less scummy if only he posted more...
** VEL-RAHN KOON, PLEASE PLAY THE GAME (seriously, it is fast paced and easy to read, you got no excuses) **All lurkers unite! And jump off the nearest cliff. Now.-
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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If you post each day, that's better than most, seriously.remussaidow wrote:carp, I'm V/LA with a 9 day deadline. I'll try to post at least once every day, and I'll make all of my posts count.
Following our day 2 conversation, can you give me an example of role restriction that would make mnowax's role playable as scum?All lurkers unite! And jump off the nearest cliff. Now.-
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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There are a couple problems with this theory :Vel-Rahn Koon wrote:Note the red, bolded text in the tajo quote. Since someone was so thoughtful as to kill tajo we now know that he was a Day Cop, which tells me that he most likely investigated one or both of {Nightson, Lord_Hur}.
Furthermore, and the most damning evidence against Nightson and L_H is the fact that he is an INSANE Day Cop - cops with sanity issues typically aren't told they are insane or naive or whatnot. Therefore tajo would have no reason to disbelieve any innocent/guilty claims he received from the Mod until a person he investigated turned up dead and had the opposite alignment from what the Mod told him.
Therefore, by him saying that they are probably town, it seems like he was breadcrumbing his role and hinting at an investigation or investigations. However, since he's insane, he most likely has their alignment wrong and they are probably NOT town - they are most probably scum.
- How often do you see multiple day investigations ? It would be quite overpowering.
- It would be pretty incredible luck for him to nail 2 scum after mnowax already got one...
- If me and remus are scum, this means we have 5 (!) anti-town roles in this game (Alabaska J, DGB, "the werewolf", me and remus) : that's a bit much for 12 players, don't you think ?
- I'm pretty sure populartajo's actual investigation was on DGB :
populartajo wrote:Can we lynch Greasy and then DGB?populartajo wrote:populartajo wrote:Can we lynch Greasy and then DGB?
In short, Occham's razor make me say that the most obvious possibility (that it was just a hunch) is the right one.populartajo wrote:
Do me a favor and lynch this player tomorrow. They are going to kill me tonight.DrippingGoofball wrote:
Excellent question!lord_hur wrote:What are you smoking, Vel-Rahn Koon and I posted like 2 hours ago.
As I said back then, it was not enough for a vote, and I didn't get anything scummy from him after that (only his strange claiming, but that is no indication of scummyness, just a posting restriction from the mod).Vel-Rahn Koon wrote:L_H commented on tajo's statement about him and Nightson probably being pro-town in post 130, but it never went any further. Expression of suspicion without following up seems like scum saying "ok cool, he thinks I'm town. I'm not going to push this too far because that's exactly where I want to be". Not as bad to me as Nightson's reactions towards mnowax, but bad enough.
Also, he said he believed I was town *before* I expressed suspicion. Were I scum and following your reasoning, I should not have attacked him at all. But I did.
As a side note, I can't help noticing that you made your first vote in this game right after I attacked you for lack of commitment on this point, and your vote on remus while you FoS me looks like a way to attack me without it looking too much like an OMGUS move...
I think this deserves aFoS : Vel-Rahn KoonAll lurkers unite! And jump off the nearest cliff. Now.-
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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@Kison : I have trouble seeing what BM intended to do with this role... do you have any power except your... ability to explode? Do you know what will happen exactly if/when you explode? Will it kill just you or some of us too? Is the timer suspended during the night or do we have to "load you up" in prevision of it?
In short, any info that you think would not help scum would be welcome...All lurkers unite! And jump off the nearest cliff. Now.-
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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Darn, you're right. I didn't think enough about it. Why the hell did he go all out against DGB like that then? It doesn't make sense at all... Well, unless she's a townie appearing as scum when killed. I read about this role somewhere, but have never seen it used. But then we don't know what "Screwball" is either...Vel-Rahn Koon wrote:I think you're crazy, TBH. He was an INSANE cop, and INSANE cops are NEVER told that they have sanity issues - otherwise there's no point in changing their sanity. What you're saying is that, for DGB to be the investigation target, tajo had to KNOW that he was insane and got an innocent on DGB, thereby knowing to flip it to guilty so that he could go after him with surety.All lurkers unite! And jump off the nearest cliff. Now.-
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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As I said, only if you think it would not help scum. If you have nothing to add, so be it. Not understanding things make me uncomfortable (as what is currently happening with this populartajo investigation thing), but it is only a secondary concern, of course.Kison wrote:
Maybe. Is there any reason why I should specify whether or not I do at this point in time?lord_hur wrote:do you have any power except your... ability to explode?
What, because I made an error in my reasoning ? Listen, this is the very first time I have to deal with non-sane cops. Sorry for not being perfect.Vel-Rahn Koon wrote:
This looks a lot like the backpedaling and flailing we saw out of DGB, Alabaska, and Nightson. Hiding something? Can we vote twice today??? Please!?!?lord_hur wrote:
Darn, you're right. I didn't think enough about it. Why the hell did he go all out against DGB like that then? It doesn't make sense at all... Well, unless she's a townie appearing as scum when killed. I read about this role somewhere, but have never seen it used. But then we don't know what "Screwball" is either...Vel-Rahn Koon wrote:I think you're crazy, TBH. He was an INSANE cop, and INSANE cops are NEVER told that they have sanity issues - otherwise there's no point in changing their sanity. What you're saying is that, for DGB to be the investigation target, tajo had to KNOW that he was insane and got an innocent on DGB, thereby knowing to flip it to guilty so that he could go after him with surety.
Giant-Left-Elbow of Suspicion: Lord_Hur
The worst part is, as it IS a hunch (I know it because I'm town, even if I also know you have no reason to believe me), remus could actually be scum, and if he does turn up scum, and if people follow your reasoning, I'm going to be lynched tomorrow.
Also, I found another weakness in your reasoning : the exact role BM gave is "insane day cop", which is a combination of "insane cop" and "day cop". Nowhere is it mentioned that he has multiple investigations, and it is at least as important as the other 2 characteristics, so there is no reason BM would have left this piece of description out.
There would be a way to prove this :
@mnowax: I'm pretty sure that you're town, so can you disclose your exact role name (if you think that wouldn't help scum, of course) or just say if it just is "day vigilante" or on the contrary something containing a hint that you can kill multiple people ?All lurkers unite! And jump off the nearest cliff. Now.-
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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What ? The mistaken assumption being mine in this case, are you saying you're guilty of discarding my whole defense ?Vel-Rahn Koon wrote:
No, not for an error in your reasoning, but that's a nice Argument from Fallacy.lord_hur wrote:
What, because I made an error in my reasoning ? Listen, this is the very first time I have to deal with non-sane cops. Sorry for not being perfect.Vel-Rahn Koon wrote:
This looks a lot like the backpedaling and flailing we saw out of DGB, Alabaska, and Nightson. Hiding something? Can we vote twice today??? Please!?!?lord_hur wrote:
Darn, you're right. I didn't think enough about it. Why the hell did he go all out against DGB like that then? It doesn't make sense at all... Well, unless she's a townie appearing as scum when killed. I read about this role somewhere, but have never seen it used. But then we don't know what "Screwball" is either...Vel-Rahn Koon wrote:I think you're crazy, TBH. He was an INSANE cop, and INSANE cops are NEVER told that they have sanity issues - otherwise there's no point in changing their sanity. What you're saying is that, for DGB to be the investigation target, tajo had to KNOW that he was insane and got an innocent on DGB, thereby knowing to flip it to guilty so that he could go after him with surety.
Giant-Left-Elbow of Suspicion: Lord_Hur
That would have been a very poor distraction attempt. Or maybe it's just what it looks like, an attempt to make sense of the case using the info that I have ? (i.e. that i'm town, thus that the investigation wasn't made when you apparently think it was made, and that the various attacks on DGB by populartajo look so much like cop having investigated scum).Vel-Rahn Koon wrote:The last part of your post:
looks like you've been caught with your hand in the cookie jar, so to speak, and you're desperately trying to direct our attention elsewhere.L_H wrote:Why the hell did he go all out against DGB like that then? It doesn't make sense at all... Well, unless she's a townie appearing as scum when killed. I read about this role somewhere, but have never seen it used. But then we don't know what "Screwball" is either...
Are you claiming to be DGB's partner, so you know what her role really is ? Because it damned well looks like it. How the hell can you presume what such a vague role name as "Screwball" really is?Vel-Rahn Koon wrote: You're proposing some whacko role for DGB which would explain why tajo went after him, but that's a load of crap.
I did not find a simpler one based on the above-mentioned info that I have.Vel-Rahn Koon wrote: You were quoting Occam's Razor in your last post, and then you come up with this convoluted nonsense? Could this be any further from your immediately previous position of "the simplest explanation is often the correct one"?
Now it's your turn to make a mistake in your reasoning, Mr Perfect. If DGB would appear as scum when she dies, she would appear town until then, so populartajo would have a guilty on her. By the way, what I had in mind is that her role doesn't change, she just appears as scum when killed, like a miller.Vel-Rahn Koon wrote: You've also stated that the role would change when killed, which would do nothing for tajo's investigation since he wouldn't investigate a dead person. Try again.
But again, this is far-fetched. We have no info about her true role. Well, except you maybe.
Is your role in this game that of a madman? Because it surely looks like it. Ok, where to begin...Vel-Rahn Koon wrote:
STOP!!!!! Dear God In Heaven Above, just STOP! Please. Seriously, I'm getting a headache.The worst part is, as it IS a hunch (I know it because I'm town, even if I also know you have no reason to believe me), remus could actually be scum, and if he does turn up scum, and if people follow your reasoning, I'm going to be lynched tomorrow.
Appeal to Emotion ? Check! Worried about getting killed ? Check! Both Scummy actions? CHECK(mate)!!!! I guess by your logic we should lynch you first then, just so there's no way for Remuss' death to affect you in a negative light. Why are you worried about dying as a townie anyway...
First, appeal to emotion is the single worst scumtell in my opinion. In my experience (fairly limited, I agree), whenever someone used it to get a lynch on someone, the target *always* turned town. Every single time. I even classify this... should I even say argument? in the "bullshit tools that scum use to get townies lynched".
Second, worried to die? Seriously? What are you suggesting, that I immediately self vote? Everyone knows their own role, so everyone wants to live (well usually, see Elemental Mafia for a possible exception). Now if you demonstrated that I so much want to live that I neglected goals that townies would pursue, we would be talking. But barely staying live is a normal worry for everyone.
I'm not going to answer this thoroughly, just read what mnowax disclosed. Thanks, mnowax.Also, I found another weakness in your reasoning : the exact role BM gave is "insane day cop", which is a combination of "insane cop" and "day cop". Nowhere is it mentioned that he has multiple investigations, and it is at least as important as the other 2 characteristics, so there is no reason BM would have left this piece of description out.
There would be a way to prove this :
This is the saddest thing I've ever seen. You are so desperate to get attention off of yourself that you're actually suggesting that the real role name is not what BM posted in the initial game post? On what Fu%king planet do Mods give full descriptions of the player's role in the role title? Have you ever gotten a role PM that was nothing but the role title because the title said it all? Please say 'Yes'. PLEASE! I DARE you!!!! I Double-Dog Dare you!!!Vel-Rahn Koon wrote:@mnowax: I'm pretty sure that you're town, so can you disclose your exact role name (if you think that wouldn't help scum, of course) or just say if it just is "day vigilante" or on the contrary something containing a hint that you can kill multiple people ?
Maybe, according to you, the role BM should have posted was "Insane Day Cop Who Has A Limited Number Of Investigations"? Or maybe "Insane Day Cop Who Has To Have All His Investigations In By Page 3"?
I've got a role name for you: "Scummy McScummerson This-Is-The-Biggest-Load-Of-Horse-Shit-I've-Ever-Shoveled-Let's-See-If-It-Flies Whackjob".
@mnowax: please confer with the Mod first and make sure you can post your role PM title. If you get Mod killed because of this nonsense I'm gonna be livid.
This shows two important things :
1. That his name is indeed not "day vigilante", because it is not a standard role, so it received a custom name by BM. In the *very* same way, there is no reason populartajo's role wouldn't have been customized as well. The only logical conclusion is that he had only one investigation.
2. This perfectly represents VRK's current play : bullshit in CAPITALS and accompanied with !!!!!!! and . But guess what, those who scream louder are not necessarily right. Also, I have done a bit of metagaming on VRK, and it seems like he usually doesn't play like that, so this play is intended.
Also, nice BS about mnowax not being able to post his own role name. Where have you seen a game in which it is not possible? Or maybe you suspected what he was going to say, and did not want him to say it?
Your arguments are so bad, I am not voting you right away only because I want to inspect remus' recent activities first before I place my vote.All lurkers unite! And jump off the nearest cliff. Now.-
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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This scumtell about certainty is almost too obvious, I wouldn't count it if you weren't under pressure.remussaidow wrote:I highly doubt I'll get lynched today, VRK, and even if I do, you're ******* nuts. I'd love to OMGUS you just to help you look more like an ***, but I'm too goddamned sure you're town.
Your line of defense asking us to ignore everything your predecessor did is laughable, and I hope I don't have to explain anyone why.remussaidow wrote:Also, I give two flips what you think I've done. You're trying to lynch someone who isn't playing the game anymore. Most of what Nightson did to look scummy he did by lurking, and by being pegged by an insane cop (I think you're idea on him voting J is irrelevant, that could be simply how he queued his investigations. But as I said, its still irrelevant.)
Just as I thought. The only objective argument VRK had (populartajo's double investigation), you couldn't agree with unless you claimed you were scum.remussaidow wrote:to L_H, sorry that these aren't in any particularly nice orderAppeal to Emotion Shocked ? Check! Worried about getting killed Shocked ? Check! Both Scummy actions? CHECK(mate)!!!! I guess by your logic we should lynch you first then, just so there's no way for Remuss' death to affect you in a negative light. Why are you worried about dying as a townie anyway...
lord_hur wrote:
Vel-Rahn Koon wrote:
I think you're crazy, TBH. He was an INSANE cop, and INSANE cops are NEVER told that they have sanity issues - otherwise there's no point in changing their sanity. What you're saying is that, for DGB to be the investigation target, tajo had to KNOW that he was insane and got an innocent on DGB, thereby knowing to flip it to guilty so that he could go after him with surety.
Darn, you're right. I didn't think enough about it. Why the hell did he go all out against DGB like that then? It doesn't make sense at all... Well, unless she's a townie appearing as scum when killed. I read about this role somewhere, but have never seen it used. But then we don't know what "Screwball" is either...
This looks a lot like the backpedaling and flailing we saw out of DGB, Alabaska, and Nightson. Hiding something? Can we vote twice today??? Please!?!?
Giant-Left-Elbow of Suspicion: Lord_Hur
So you based your vote on only those 2 arguments which are :
- of the worst kind (which I think I have proved in my last post)
- developped by someone else, which you have no reason to believe is town (have you?)
Nice way to divert attention to someone else. It is obvious bullshit though : what I say cannot change facts. If you're town and lynched today, it will bring down VRK's reasoning about populartajo's investigation, same as if I had said nothing. And it would not protect me from any attack on another ground, by the way, so what's your "protection" exactly? Epic fail.remussaidow wrote:Now this is all well and good, but the other target you have in this is Lord_Hur, who has not only responded to your recent flurry of activity, but responded in such a way so that he's protected if I'm lynched first. That's really not a particularly town thing to do.
VRK did mention flailing when he attacked me, and I can't help thinking that's what remus is doing now : desperately trying to bring me to the front so I take the lynch instead of him.
At first, I didn't know what to think about his actual voting on me, really. Was he decieved by VRK's aggressive style so that he did not see that his arguments are crap, or did he not think about it and just sensed a potential wagon he could jump on? But judging by his earlier play, which wasn't on the stupid side, I think the second possibility is the most probable.
I have been pondering between voting for VRK or for remus. But now, if I take into account all my analyzing and :
- the fact that VRK's play and arguments, as much as I don't like them both, have the merit of pressuring people, which is usally quite good for town to get extra info ;
- the fact that VRK has lost each and every of his games as town (7), so his bad arguments could actually be genuine (not the best argument, I know, but I think it counts) ;
You will not be surprised that I feel more comfortable with this :
Vote : remussaidowAll lurkers unite! And jump off the nearest cliff. Now.-
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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Well, I think I understand why those three died, except that there are two possible inconsistencies in my reasoning. Maybe you can help me iron them out.
Kison came into the game saying that he needed people to say "Hiroshima" for him to stay alive. Three people obliged : the same that were killed. I think a direct relation can be made.
On the other side, VRK was a radiation suit salesman, which I think was a counter for Kison's powerful role. He tried to make one people say "Nagasaki" (Kison, ironically), but mnowax said it and received a bomob-poof suit, at BM's scene says. The two inconsistencies are these :
- mnowax, despite saying "Nagasaki", was killed anyway;
- VRK, if he was aware of his role, should have immediately known that Kison had the bomb he was the counter to (Nagasaki/Hiroshima ?), but then BM would have thought about it, so VRK was likely only informed partially of his role ; still, he knew that he was town and that the theme of Hiroshima/Nagasaki was likely about bombs, so he should have made the link...
Now, to more pressing matters :
We know that there are two anti-town forces : those who claw/dismember people (werewolf for short), and those who shoot people (mafia).
Since Dasquian was both dismembered and shot night 2, the werewolf was still alive then. And since all 4 people who just died couldn't have been him, the werewolf is still alive now.
So I think a :Vote : Patrickis in order.
Patrick is likely to vote me in return, since I'm the only other "survivor".All lurkers unite! And jump off the nearest cliff. Now.-
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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He was anti-town at least (usually in BM games, all anti-town are painted in red). That said, I think he's mafia, because :dahill1 wrote:also, Kison was scum? all it says was that he was a bomb but it's colored in red like the other scum are
- there are already two anti-town forces ;
- I can't see what his victory condition would be if he was independant.All lurkers unite! And jump off the nearest cliff. Now.-
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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Hmm Patrick... to clarify your claim a bit, in your opinion, which side do you think caused :
- the 2 gun shots
- the 2 gory attacks
Though your vengeful vig theory is interesting and would almost explain your kills if there wasn't this gory kill component, which is incompatible with a vig's gunshot.
I see that you inspected your cover options thoroughly, and also that you didn't rule this one out completely because you are so desperate that even the faintest escape route is worth keeping open.
By the way, you should give up, Patrick. Even if you do get me lynched today, there is no way you can make it to the endgame. That explosion was terrible for town, but it was even worse for you, as I am the only bush left you can hide behind, and you have to bring me down because I know your role.
I wish you could see the big smile I have on my face right now, Patrick.All lurkers unite! And jump off the nearest cliff. Now.-
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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This reasoning on rolenames is quite bad : are you saying that only town got those awesome roles, and that scum would be restricted to only standard goons? That would be pretty unbalanced against them, don't you think?Patrick wrote:Alternatively, those kills came from DGB then Kison (I'm thinking those guys aren't aligned with Alabaska at least due to rolenames).
Also, BM said that Kison "had returned for a last kill". This is a pretty strong hint that he was of the same alignment than in the previous game (which was scum).
And finally, there is still no hint of a second scum group. Only one shotgun kill (1 mafia group) and one mauling per night.
Do you have an example in mind? I must admit I'm pretty new compared to you, and I have never read a game featuring this.Patrick wrote:Unusual kill flavours for vigs have certainly been used before, but I think it's quite unlikely.
Yes, when I reread my post I thought it was pretty strong. But I left it there because it is what I felt.Patrick wrote:lol, now you're really overdoing it.
You are so very wrong. The order does matter. A lot. Kison had a role very un-werewolf-ish. DGB was killed by a werewolf (so, you). And Alabaska J was a goon for sure. So I think you're a SK. Killing you first will most likely prevent one night kill.Patrick wrote:I want to get you lynched because I think you're scum and lynching you today helps the town more than being lynched myself and only lynching you the following day (and if we're somehow both town, I doubt it matters what order we die in).
This is why I can die tomorrow, but not today.All lurkers unite! And jump off the nearest cliff. Now.-
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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Sigh. Thanks for not reading what I'm bothering to post. Again, the important today is to get the werewolf.
So you think I'm scum. Fine, but even if you're right, killing me now will not prevent a night kill, while killing him will.
So, kill him now, and kill me tomorrow, or refutate my arguments.
That is all.All lurkers unite! And jump off the nearest cliff. Now.-
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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At this exact moment, I am not understanding obvious things at all.Litral wrote:For obvious reasons I won't comment on any other player alive.
And I'm quite reluctant to oblige someone I don't know anything about. Your two "reasons" are meaning nothing right now (you could be scum if BM just ruled that he won't count scum augmentations).
However, there is one thing that could convince me that at least the mechanics you claim are genuine (for all we know, you could be scum faking a role) : I had a quite similar role in one of BM's previous games, and I think that BM would follow the same role basic pattern. Can anyone tell me if :
is, as I think, a way to circumvent a posting restriction ruling that Litral cannot say that people cannot use double posts to increase the counter?Litral wrote:Also, if you think you can do something that will increase the number but get mith on you, don't do it.All lurkers unite! And jump off the nearest cliff. Now.-
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lord_hur Mafia Scum
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Well, sorry about the multiple posts.
After a bit of thinking, I now suspect that your role might be fake. I cannot see it being viable unless there is at least one extra rule about incrementation that you didn't tell us about.
Of course, I am not going to tell you what it is right now. So could you confirm us if there is another such rule? I will explain my reasoning right after.All lurkers unite! And jump off the nearest cliff. Now.