Why Gun?? - Town Win

[maxwell]

I SAID NOBODY MOVEEE

VOTE: Tipsy

[maxwell]

VOTE: bell

Good vote.

VOTE: Bell

[maxwell]

Trplehaven's probably town? I feel like I'm on the wrong account for a goofy game like this.

[maxwell]

I'm going to be setting my alarm clock to wake up and get the first shot on Bell

[maxwell]

VOTE: Tipsy

[maxwell]

Might be better to block up as a firing squad and point guns at people collectively for enhanced pressure


1 shot - 15%
2 shots - 27.75%
3 shots - 38.59%
4 shots - 48.80%
5 shots - 55.63%

5 feels like too much breathing room but 3 is probably the best. 1 feels like people are being forced to shoot an individual so thats no good.

With the mod saying shots on a dead person get refunded, it seems like there's no reason not to just gang up on someone and shoot them until they're dead.

Trplehaven's probably town? I feel like I'm on the wrong account for a goofy game like this.

This game isn’t goofy at all if you take it seriously and play to win it

I had joined this as a "blowing off steam" type of game after two mech-heavy large themes finished and people in both of them asked for joining this one. My plan going into this was to play a bit more casually which goes with the approach I've taken so far. Having a regimented decision-making process for shots is probably correct, I was just expecting something more chaotic.

[maxwell]

I thought Bell's game start was awkward but they seem to have adopted a strange style for this game. Can't really draw a conclusion.

[maxwell]

people to not shoot
me
morning tweet
Keiji and Sara (Alisae + Kanna)
Menalque
Umlaut

Does anyone have objections to any of these? or anyone they wanna add? just throwing out ideas here.

Here's my working whitelist:

Triple >> Bell, Datisi >> Mena, jj >> Umlaut, max

Spoiler:

Triple is town

Bell I like from his reaction to his wagon. Not too defensive, just looking over each person's reasoning for voting him since there was a somewhat decent chance there's 0-1 scum on the wagon from a town PoV

I slightly like both of maxes votes (cause i did them too).

I like jj's takes in 141 and the pretend ur confident comment

Mena + Datisi haven't done anything to ping me although that wouldn't surprise me from either alignment. regardless i dont think I'd want either shot but I guess i don't have super tangible reasoning. I looked through Datisi's ISO and i like his reaction to triple

Umlaut in hindsight I like because his main post was expressing dissent towards Bell, which at the very least puts him slightly above people i dont have an opinion on. Other than that idk why he's townread

K&S i get why you'd want them in the townblock but i wouldnt be surprised at all if they make that post as scum. Not that i scumread it of course but eh

I actually don't really like most of jjh's content this game despite agreeing with him on a technical level, felt like he got too much into into setup strategy to the neglect of anything else. Townread on triplehaven is uncontroversial, don't understand the one on bell, either way don't think a couple early townreads is worthy of towncred.

[maxwell]

I want a firing squad on porkens. Someone join me.

[maxwell]

Tipsy is actually more likely to be scum than Porkens, if I had to judge his entry is more likely to come from town than scum, he's just likely corrosively bad if town and therefore ideal vig material. Will probably take aim at Tipsy instead.

their whole thing seems almost lamist in iso

maaaybe, but it def doesn't feel like he's doing it to be townread

just like he's having fun

and i townread him for that

Think this is a stylistic thing for Tipsy but it actually comes off somewhat forced here and their back and forth with triplehaven actually made them look rather bad

[maxwell]

I just disagree icon

We’ll see what they flip if my shot hits

Nice

[maxwell]

Don't actually know if I want that shot anymore.

[maxwell]

@Bell

Are you an alt?

I played here 6 years ago. But this is my main account now. I forgot my password.

I don't believe you, someone who is familiar with the site and is making a new account in 2020 would not expect a 4 character name to be available and would register with something else. You must be a site newbie who is lying. You are therefore probably scum.

They said as much in newbie 2017 so I'm inclined to take them at their word, but even if they were lying about their identity, why would it make them mafia? This is a suspicious argument.

Here you respond to wagon pressure by saying "If I die, kill anime" (which i want to reiterate, i am in complete agreement with but still)

Locktown, never rescinding.

occcurs to me this setup is a less fun DEFCON.

some1 mod DEFCON 5, pls.

I'm going to let you finish, but ehobanowoof was the greatest dayvig setup of all time.

porken's the one who made that huge wall that everyone just ignored, yea? Need to read into them more.
Tipsy had been stream-of-consensus posting a lot and that's really the only observation i've had about them.

Porkens announced he was going to shoot right away in his opening post, and followed up with a long jokepost, an aggressively bad readslist, and an immediate shot. None of that is outside the range of trolling/bad town but I also don't put it past him to play this in a "yolo idgaf" way as scum

[maxwell]

HURT: Porkens

screw it.

[maxwell]

"I might know Tipsys main and by virtue of meta we may just want to get rid of her even if she is town".

*them *they are

If I’m right

This gave me an idea but if it's the person I'm thinking of, I'm not sure why you'd consider them so antitown as to warrant removal? So I'm probably not thinking of the same person as you. I do think in my very small n=1 sample size, Tipsy was a lot more proactively solve-y as town in my game with them, even in a no flip game that was extremely lacking in content.

I think other sites call them upicks.

upick here is a type of setup where everyone submits some type of role flavor to the mod and the mod generates roles for everyone based on what they submit. Huge chaotic theme games used to be more common here but they're much less commojn from what I've seen (and I think 50 was one of the largest I've seen).

[maxwell]

Tipsy outing as exactly the person I thought they were shouldn't make me want to unvote, but it does? I guess I somewhat townread the confession of being unmotivated? Even though I know that should be null.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Isis

Discuss.

[maxwell]

yeah yeah maxwell you know me and my plucky anime alts.

I actually didn't think of it until the reference to defcon. Anyway, hi Nat.

[maxwell]

maxwell, why does swinging to agreement with me about Tipsy's alignment lead you to wanting me dead?

It's not about Tipsy's alignment but the way you've been posting and the way you conducted yourself around your shot, which came across forced. I don't know if those are the same reasons Mena and Datisi voted you.

why are we piling on isis specifically when there were multiple people pushing on Tipsy? and how does them being an alt of someone prove that they're town in any way?

I already addressed this, the outing really doesn't, it was more the admission of their attitude toward the game around it. And I'm not ready to write them off as town yet but would rather explore other votes at this point in time.

[maxwell]

I don't see why scum would defend tipsy!town there if one of their partners were in danger.

Who was in danger, though? only main popular wagons were Bell and Tipsy.

[maxwell]

hey max tell me about...

VOTE: bell

Good vote.

VOTE: Bell

this vote? please & ty

To that point in the game their output had been mostly offtopic oneliners that came across as awkward. However, I realized this game they appear to have adopted an intentionally cryptic playstyle which means I shouldn't automatically assume they're scum having trouble fitting in.

[maxwell]

can someone send me a pork post so i can iso them i dont feel like looking

He has literally 2 posts

wait why the fuck is he being scumread with 2 posts
mans probably busy just wait until he gets itt

I don't know that I explicitly scumread him, I just disagreed with many of his reads in his second post and thought he was a good shot if he's going to play trololo style.

[maxwell]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: NorwegianboyEE

Was waiting to see how he'd respond to pressure but I looked at the deadline. Keiji makes a good point about the readlist. There was a post from Isis I distrusted, but w/e. At this point I'm kind of blindly throwing darts.

[maxwell]

VOTE: Pork

Maybe scum would have pushed Pork by now. Norwes reaction didnt really clear him for me but i suppose it's better than nothing (aka pork). I'm also finding it increasingly hard to believe town!Pork refuses to give content at all

I am more or less in agreement with this but also think it's probably pretty unlikely that all the scum are in the lurker/troller category. Fine w/ this vote but want to collect my thoughts.

[maxwell]

Oh, well. I think porkens red flip actually makes norwee look better, don't have time for other thoughts

[maxwell]

BTW, Bell, if you can prove your identity to the mods they should be accommodating in getting your old account back, if you have any interest in doing do. They helped me change the email on an old alt I no longer had access to.

[maxwell]

There's six, actually.

oh ffs I read this as six votes

[maxwell]

ngl i forgot maxwell was in this game

Probably because I haven't been posting much. I'm trying to develop actual reads right now.

[maxwell]

I think rebelling against a perceived imposition of order here (though there really isn't one) is more likely to come from town than scum? Feel less good about this vote now.

[maxwell]

Like that menalque is taking a look at players aside from the disruptive ones, but not sure about umlaut as the target as I thought his posts were kind of okay but he came across as someone who'd fallen behind on the thread more than anything (and, from my position, I relate). Not sure exchanging a troll elimination for a low poster one is any more likely to be successful. (fully prepared to have this come back on my head if umlaut is scum).

was taking notes on people but procrastinated so I don't have a full list to present. I'm still sort of fixated on early reads i had, though. will just post my notes on jjh before i pass out for the night.

jjh - spent a lot of time talking about organizing shots but no real effort to do so or point people in any direction, came across as busywork to appear to be strategizing rather than any real applied strategy. not much in the way of reads. 467 is a defense of bell that just says they're "on his wavelength" which isn't a very good defense + makes no sense to me. not seeing from 676 how that menalque post is alignment-indicative? Other than that he's only had push onto norwee with not much else which does feel like hitting a soft target. He's been riding norwee since 153 without explanation when I don't think anything norwee had done to that point was fairly alignment-telling at all. Really very thin on content overall, feels like someone who's been trying to skate by.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: jjh927

also have issues with Isis to some extent but that'll have to wait for an explanation, nodded off several times but from writing this

[maxwell]

Going to try to burn through my notes from last night, still have to read a good portion of the playerlist.

Bell

- 253's "My initial shooting will be tit for tat." is a somewhat town type of standoffishness. Too cool for school attitude is hard to read but I'd guess it comes from town. Irritation at being ignored by Menalque early is maybe town. Read on the weak side though.

Datisi

- liked the early gut read on Bell, feel there's an ease to his posting this game although this is something of a recency bias thing. I like the idea expressed in 298, something of a more advanced thought . Exchange with Bell starting at 317 rings like town irritation. paranoia of menalque in 458 believable as coming from town. This is a townread.

Isis

- so let me try to articulate more fully what bothered me about Isis. In 512 she says it's hard to read Iconeum on the first day of a game. In 524 she says Iconeum is useful to have around as town. Then in 558 she shoots Iconeum for being "sideliney" only to express regret 7 minutes in 560 which is a really bizarre progression? It reads like a caricature of townie impulsiveness, the idea that someone takes a shot only partway into a read of a player they previously expressed is useful to have around, the whole thing really doesn't make sense to me. Maybe I'ma little wrapped up in the result of the shot but I don't like the process here at all.

Other parts of Isis's play I have issue with: expressing the idea that Bell is impersonating a veteran and therefore must be scum in 545 just makes no sense at all. Analysis of Tipsy in 599 feels very overwrought, like it's reading way too hard into very simple statements to conclude that Tipsy must be town and I don't really like it at all. Tone in 772 feels off.

In 813 Isis says "The strength of my Tipsy townread is going to be informed by showing up late to the thread and seeing like, this player who seems slightly or moderately townier than rand to me is getting dumped on by the entire thread with poor reasoning, and I'm not really townreading any of those people." The problem I have with this statement is...who is Isis talking about? The players who jumped on Tipsy early were: Norwee, Morning Tweet, maxwell, Menalque, and Umlaut. But as of that point, Isis doesn't really address any of any of us? So i'm not sure

who

she's saying she didn't townread, and if she had an issue with a Tipsy voter, why not put the shot on one of us, rather than Iconeum, whose one post addressing Tipsy was to defend them? She vaguely shaded menalque in 602 but then reversed course and expressed a townread on him in 846 and says I "probably rolled town this game" in 879 which would imply some form of suspicion toward norwee/MT/Umlaut but there's no action there, their vote is on Umlaut now but she hasn't expressed any reasoning as to why at any point, it just seems to be following Menalque. Heavily on the scum side for me.

norwee

- 396 is actually kind of a town inquisitiveness? Still not sure his response to pressure is exactly great, though. Am wary of some of the people who have been calling for his death, though.

Ugh I still have to get through 7 more people like this

[maxwell]

I don't think criticism of me is unfair given I was basically procrastinating at actually doing anything in this game for a good while. Sort of makes me wonder why I was hanging around in some people's townreads. Still feel very iffy toward an Umlaut vote on a gut level.

[maxwell]

Umlaut:

bullet points in 491 are meh, 495 are basically the troll/memeshooter players which granted are not particularly bad shots but kind of shows a lack of effort. But then that's not necessarily scum indicative. Have to hard disagree with the sentiment in 635 of liking Isis's post but I can see a town player getting impressed by that thing. Does follow the consensus townread of triplehaven in 689 but has his own reasoning. Defending the porkens wagon shows at least a lack of opportunism but he hasn't directed many reads elsewhere and there's definitely a lack of content overall. But, I don't know. The wagon still feels somewhat off to me and I don't really get the accusation that he's trying to look town or whatever, doesn't give that impression. Seems mostly like someone who's out of step with the thread which is a nulltell and push amounts to shoving out a random lurker. Not the worst possible elim but doesn't feel likely to hit scum.

[maxwell]

Also possible scum just want to keep Porkens around if he's town because he'd be disruptive and more likely to harm town than anything else

[maxwell]

Dunno where we're all at, but I should probably clarify the main gripe I have with Norwegian atm

Okay so I shot at him and that somehow made him think I'm town. I can maybe accept that.
Then when I voted away from him in a way that might build traction, he sheeped me. Quite directly. Pretty sure he was the main wagon at that point, and this was like, one of the first possible points for pressure to relieve there, and he took it. What's more, let's say you're town. Why do you sheep someone on a different read with no basis but that they are scumreading you? It's totally ridiculous- the only read they hold that you actually know whether it's right or wrong, and they have it wrong. So why sheep on another read?
2 reasons. Pressure relief, and trying to pocket me away from continuing to vote him.

Hmm I actually like this post

[maxwell]

Also possible scum just want to keep Porkens around if he's town because he'd be disruptive and more likely to harm town than anything else

I mean, if I were trying to save porkens as scum it would be more because he’s unlikely to disrupt my control of the gamestate and because he’d be a good misguillo in gylo

I don’t really see how he’s likely to harm town more than anything else vía being disruptive?

likely to be shooting at town/a continued source of arguments and break apart any attempts at consensus is what I'm trying to say.

[maxwell]

jjh, do you mind clarifying what the basis for your initial scumread on Norwegianboy was? I see the stuff about after the shot but I'm wonder what led you to shoot at him in the first place.

[maxwell]

Maybe I got over-anxious. Unease with you was pulling me away from that vote but I don't mind your explanations here. In ISO'ing triple I brought myself back to Norwee's readlist which I really don't like.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: NorwegianboyEE

[maxwell]

They're not even that long. I'm a poseur pretending to be a wallposter but it's not in my

soul

.

[maxwell]

Triplehaven:

I'm looking back at her and I'm actually not sure wher I got my gut townread on her at all. Maybe her posts looked better in context. I would have said 116 was somewhat town overcaution but that happened after I outed the read so I've no idea. She's not quite as towny as I thought? 597 is actually somewhat bothersome saying porkens "made that huge wall that everyone just ignored" when it was an obvious joke. The flip on menalque starting in 608 seems like a plausible about-face but I don't get why she'd find norwee's readlist good in 613 - in fact the more that I look at that readlist the more I hate it but that's poins against norwee rather than triple. 782 is odd in that it's a very basic thought - typically there are going to be multiple town in the POE as viable misyeets, it's typically a bad look to go after every LHF as you get seen as opportunistic, I'd expect an experienced player to know this sort of thing so reasoning this way is odd. But probably not coming from scum? 783 is a better way of rephrasing it I suppose. 855 is probably not coming from a scum player but looks like town who thinks they see something no one else sees. More recent posts have better vibes, questioning of porkens starting in 1126 feels like a townie who's really attempting to sort someone. Still a town read, I'd say, not as strong as early gutfeels but they'd have to do something really weird to make me change my mind.

[maxwell]

It's plurality voting so it's not as big of a deal if people aren't around, unless there's someone you really, really want to save.

[maxwell]

idk about ya'll but the progression isis made on ico never comes from scum
it's too scattershot and random without any serious reasoning

Very much don't agree, it looks like someone trying to appear impulsive but it doesn't really make sense on its face and definitely doesn't make sense with her stated progression on tipsy

[maxwell]

also joining wagons because your townreads are on them is literally sheeping
and i don't like mena still

There's nothing particularly bad about sheeping if you think all the players voting are likely to be town (I know that is not the case here)

it doesn't really make sense on its face and definitely doesn't make sense with her stated progression on tipsy

Hmm? Why’s this?

I think if she was actually concerned with any of the people jumping on tipsy early as she said she'd have shot one of us

[maxwell]

yea actually, can we not maj
UNVOTE: norw

Why not?

This wasn't a rhetorical question btw, I'm curious why you don't want a majority execution.

Pretty sure this comes down to differing site meta.

[maxwell]

Isis almost feels too scummy to be scum after that end of day yesterday in that I'm not sure scum desperately tries to save an obviously flatlining Norwee end of day yesterday. Not a good assumption, I know, but I can't help the feeling. But aside from wanting Porkens dead no matter what, that leaves me kind of stuck because I don't have terrible feelings toward anyone on the Umlaut wagon.

I felt from looking at VCs Tipsy is probably town but I'm going to need to take a closer look there.

[maxwell]

Quick search of MT on norwee looks kind of bad for MT.

[maxwell]

Quick search of MT on norwee looks kind of bad for MT.

Why?

Lot of "eh norwee is scummy but I prefer this other person" type of statements e.g. 1102

[maxwell]

seems more likely than scum just not touching a perfectly good counterwagon?

Yeah, I'd say you're right. Scum was either busing or voting me

(or possibly both if you think I'm scum)

but at any rate not vanity-wagoning.

Actually shooting between me and those on my wagon is probably the right call today. If you think I'm town then good, you're right, don't shoot me, but if you need to see my flip before you're willing to scumhunt from my wagon then I get it (just let me get my shot off first please)

I mean, we did JUST play a game where we learned this type of wagonomics is not an infallible method (and it was from a wagon on you then, too!)

[maxwell]

@maxwell yeah only right after this she voted here and only came off it when I started arguing that umlaut was scum?

I'm not sure that's really clearing and there were a lot of instances of wavering on him. But this is just a spitball take, I'd want to commit to actually looking at her in detail before making judgment.

i think maxwell looks like a bus vote too, i agree with datisi

I would like to think I'd be better at bussing than this.

[maxwell]

Idk why umlaut wagon didn’t gain traction even from Norway when I know it was town originated?

I don't know why he wouldn't hop on umlaut if it was his partner, either, though. Might as well put some distance there, right? He seemingly just gave up which might have meant he was supposed to be sacrificed.

[maxwell]

Why do i do this!!!

I think as scum I would have probably townread Norwe for his "genuine reaction" to thinking he was hammered. Or pushed him over Pork the whole way thru as a bus. Either way i hope i wouldn't choose to fencesit, that typically doesnt end well for me

I did a whole analysis thing later in 1181 and changed to Norwe after that. I thought the part that looked worse for me was the Umlaut wagon personally but looking back I guess i didn't help the Norwe wagon until it had more momentum. Grumblegrumble

I don't know. Sometimes it's hard to know which way the wind is blowing. But that was a quickie take and I'm not sure analysis holds up (and even then, correct-looking analysis can be wrong). Actually reading your posts in full you do not look scummy. And while you had bell as town the theory you kill him for that is goofy. Looking over the list of people I'm just kind of forced to go "who's scum??" and it is hard to find good answers. I might wake up and take a hero shot.

[maxwell]

This might get me some strange looks, but

HURT: TripleHaven

[maxwell]

I reread and didn't like some of the things she said about norwegianboy and not a lot makes sense otherwise.

[maxwell]

Why didn't you shoot me, weren't you scumreading me yesterday?

I explained why I'm sort of doubtful on that now. I wouldn't call you locktown but probably wouldn't vote you today. 600 and 613 were fishy to me. If she shoots me back, that's fine.

[maxwell]

I think MT looks better after the porkens flip, tbh.

[maxwell]

Oh I went to post a vote on tipsy and the game ended. Well done, everyone else.

[maxwell]

I thought it was fine as it was, basically a slightly spicier mountainous, scum were just trying to play it like a meme game and it ended up not being that. If they'd thrown their weight into voting umlaut D1 then maybe it would've added sufficient chaos to the game that they might have gone further.