FGO: Mafia in the Lostbelt (Game Over!)
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Servant Lancer Goon
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Servant Lancer Goon
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Servant Lancer Goon
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Servant Lancer Goon
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I don't know anything about FGO, but there's a comprehensive wiki and I imagine at least a few of us actually do.
The more you claim about your role the easier it is for scum to figure out who's who.
The most important thing is giving the master to town and not scum, not for everyone to start comparing their roles to each other to try and figure out who has the strongest one.-
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Servant Lancer Goon
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Servant Lancer Goon
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Giving town a master is more important than maximizing the master benefit, a feat which is literally impossible without fullclaiming, which I again caution is a very bad idea.
Cabd said this game is very swingy and I'm reading that as scum getting a master to be a bad thing, even if it kills one of them.-
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Servant Lancer Goon
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I think Berserker was saying that post is scummy.In post 51, Servant Foreigner wrote:
Is this not the master vote?In post 46, Servant Berserker wrote:This is our first murder vote, yes?
We vote for a master, if we win we get 2 lynches day 1.
If we lose scum probably just win on the spot and we are playing up hill 10-3.
But agree, I don't want to be in the scum master timeline.
Foreigner's mistake indicates less information, which is more town than scum, imo.-
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Servant Lancer Goon
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Your avatar is a different color.In post 71, Servant Beast wrote:Hey guys, checking in. Skimming and trying to get used to reading messages with the avatars all looking the same.
I can confirm I have a similar ability to what several people have claimed so I think that is all null then right?
I cannot understate how fucking jealous I am.-
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Servant Lancer Goon
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Servant Lancer Goon
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Servant Lancer Goon
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I care more about scum not having whatever powerups they'd get than losing one strong town player.In post 81, Servant Archer wrote:
I would be fine with making a strong town voice master. First of all, they will be guaranteed to drive 3 hangs which can hopefully help snowball this game. Also, there's probably going to exist protective roles anyways, so they could save whoever we end up choosing.In post 25, Servant Foreigner wrote:To some degree we don't want to confirm someone we think is town as town? They get a jacked role pm but will just end up being shot which results in us losing a strong town read and the entire benefit of this vote.
We're going to lose that strong town player anyways, that's how mafia works.-
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Servant Lancer Goon
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Servant Lancer Goon
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Town and scum both want the master vote, but I don't like how Berserker's trying to control the game and steamroll. They could be town but I'd rather someone who I can be confident is town.In post 95, Servant Assassin wrote:
ok but a couple other people had the same idea so why single out berserkerIn post 79, Servant Lancer wrote:Berserker trying to strongarm the master vote out of the gate doesn't give me good feelings either.-
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Servant Lancer Goon
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Why's it weird?In post 104, Servant Berserker wrote:This person can eat a bullet too. That is a super weird response after their initial posts wrt this topic.-
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Servant Lancer Goon
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Why are you voting for me?In post 110, Servant Archer wrote:can someone ask me some questions, so I can feel useful?
Also do you scumread Berserker?-
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Servant Lancer Goon
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Servant Lancer Goon
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Servant Lancer Goon
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You called one of his posts busywork.In post 120, Servant Archer wrote:Mostly joke as you were last poster, but also because partial tone. I'll keep it here until I find someone better.
Not really. Seems like a weird question tbh.-
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Servant Lancer Goon
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This game is moving fast out of the gate, I didn't see you give it up when I made that post.In post 122, Servant Berserker wrote:
It's a weird response because I've already said I don't care about being voted anymore?In post 111, Servant Lancer wrote:
Why's it weird?In post 104, Servant Berserker wrote:This person can eat a bullet too. That is a super weird response after their initial posts wrt this topic.
Multiple times. Once it became clear the power was ubiquitous among townies (4+ people) I no longer cared who got it as long as they were town.
I'm now instead focusing on early game scum hunting and pressure, as you may notice, because I'm not going to be going down the confirmed town 2 days to live plan.
I don't agree that given I let go, you making this post NOW makes any sense. It's a really weird timing issue, especially since I gave it up really fast, too fast for "steamrolling" to be an adequate adjective.-
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Servant Lancer Goon
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I'm not willing to towncase anyone yet. Do you have any reads?In post 121, Servant Assassin wrote:ok and why is avenger town to you-
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Servant Lancer Goon
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Servant Lancer Goon
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Servant Lancer Goon
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Their approaches aren't really similar at all besides wanting the master vote, and the whole list has reason to want that.In post 135, Servant Assassin wrote:yes dumbass i'm asking what makes them distinct in your view
I like Avenger's early sorting and reactions and I don't really like Berserker's.
Also don't call me a dumbass, asshole.
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Servant Lancer Goon
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1) They haven't played anything alike and your continued claim they have is super wildIn post 139, Servant Assassin wrote:
the only posts they have which could really be construed as "sorting" are 60 and 70, which, if that's what it takes, color me unimpressed - the scumread is even the exact same one as berserker's, so, like, what givesIn post 137, Servant Lancer wrote:
Their approaches aren't really similar at all besides wanting the master vote, and the whole list has reason to want that.In post 135, Servant Assassin wrote:yes dumbass i'm asking what makes them distinct in your view
I like Avenger's early sorting and reactions and I don't really like Berserker's.
Also don't call me a dumbass, asshole.
looks like a fake distinction for a manufactured read from you imo tbh
2) Feels like you pressed me for what you think is a towncase so you could have something to shut down.
3) Again, do you have any reads of your own?-
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Servant Lancer Goon
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In mafia revealing your identity is usually bad, too?In post 149, Servant Foreigner wrote:Maybe I should read the OP.
I just assumed people didn't want to claim because in fate revealing your identity is typically bad.
I didn't realize it was in Fate, though. That's kind of cool.
I don't need another gacha game in my life so getting invested may be a mistake. and yet.-
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Servant Lancer Goon
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Servant Lancer Goon
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Servant Lancer Goon
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You're still arguing against this built-up townread of Avenger that doesn't actually exist. I like his play. I didn't like Berserker's. I haven't cased either beyond liking Avenger's response to my vote. Their individual reads don't mean much at this point because the game's just getting started and I need more context. I stated as much before we even got into this.-
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Servant Lancer Goon
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Servant Lancer Goon
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Servant Lancer Goon
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Servant Lancer Goon
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Servant Lancer Goon
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It still might, I like this approach at least and I can sympathize with wanting to get into the game.In post 187, Servant Alter Ego wrote:I'm in observation mode atm. I'm not sure what will haul me into the game actively, or when it will happen, but I don't think it will be much longer. I thought talking to you might do the trick. Oh well.-
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Servant Lancer Goon
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Servant Lancer Goon
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I also expect that in games like this the mod isn't going to give all of town a power mafia doesn't know anything about.In post 304, Servant Assassin wrote:i guessed it without asking any questions, not a difficult logical leap. they had 4 role pms to compare and it's likely they have some similar version of the effect and could deduce it from there. however, 10 town players got that role PM, and some of them almost certainly did think their role was somehow uniquely broken and rushed to request getting this awesone power. from that perspective berserker's opening looks legit
I guess Berserker doesn't look like they were trying to capitalize on that for the TR, especially with how they accused player I can't remember of being scum for not noticing the master thing in their own PM. It was a pretty off the cuff accusation.-
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Servant Lancer Goon
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The reason was Avenger sounded town. I just liked their posts on gut, then their reaction to my vote and how they were playing and wanted to see how voting there would go. Assassin's trying to dig for something more and drawing this dichotomy between Berserker and Avenger in order to refute it pinged hard. Them both having the same read on Player didn't factor in.In post 260, Servant Alter Ego wrote:
There's that. But, it also looked like one of those things that would be really easy to just let the townie have as scum as opposed to holding back. Reading back through the thread tonight, it made me wonder if my townread should have softened as much as it did later.In post 258, Servant Rider wrote:It factored into the read degradation. It struck me as odd that they wouldn't just explain why they'd decided to vote Avenger. Even if it was some small reason they had to have SOME reason to swap votes. It got worse as they talked to Assassin.
Do you want the master upgrade?-
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Servant Lancer Goon
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This sticks out to me as something I don't think I've seen town bring up before, but also as something scum just doesn't bring up at all. Unless Alter Ego was getting some sort of pushback for treating Moon Cancer as town, this isn't something I see scum allowing to make it to the thread.In post 277, Servant Alter Ego wrote:Last night, I realized I was responding to Moon Cancer like their suspicion of me is coming from town. This morning, I'm not trusting that instinctual reaction so much. I'm sitting on a null town take.-
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Servant Lancer Goon
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Servant Lancer Goon
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Early game reads don't get a blanket tr. I liked his posting the most out of the early game, I got good gut feelings about the way he jumped into the sorting and his tone, and I liked his response to my TR. That's literally all. I think it's obvious I didn't like Berserker's approach initially so why would I TR that?-
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Servant Lancer Goon
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Servant Lancer Goon
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You keep moving the goalposts away from the actual question of why I TR Avenger. I told you. Then you nitpick. So I elaborate, then you say I can't like his early sorting because other players also were? Of course they were, I liked how he did his. It was also a really early read from like page 3 so the fact that you're harping on it so hard when it's really fucking obvious where I got the read from is just unbelievable to me if you're town.-
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Servant Lancer Goon
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Servant Lancer Goon
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How is "he responded well to my vote" not specific? How much more specific do you expect people to be about a read like this? It'd be one thing if you thought he was scummy but you're literally going after something you know I can't defend very strongly because it was the earliest of reads imaginable based on good feelings from Avenger's opener and how he approached what little solving was available.In post 359, Servant Assassin wrote:yes it's obvious you just made it up based on appearances and when asked to justify it with literally anything specific you cannot do it because it was not a real read
This is why I said I wasn't willing to towncase. There was almost nothing to towncase yet. I can only elaborate so much.-
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Servant Lancer Goon
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Servant Lancer Goon
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Servant Lancer Goon
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Servant Lancer Goon
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Servant Lancer Goon
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You can easily see scum faking a read where they claim they've been accidentally treating another player as town?In post 396, Servant Archer wrote:No, I can easily see scum faking a townread on someone for reasons like that and then retracting it. First, it makes them look better. Second, it makes them not obligated to townread someone. Not calling AE scum, but I don't think this is great reason for townread.
I guess there's an SvS possibility but I don't have any reason to think that, really.
What do you like about Assassin's questions?
Also, what's wrong with Avenger making sure the setup is understood?-
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Servant Lancer Goon
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I like to think I'm capable of thinking critically about a scumread on me, and I don't agree with any of this. Laid-back posting, sure, but the way he's been questioning me doesn't feel good faith at all, especially when that's the only thing he's interacted with my slot about. It just looks like he saw my refusal to towncase Avenger early as an easy push.In post 409, Servant Caster wrote:Here's an explanation of a random read:
-Assassin's posts are all very laid back, which could be personality alone but gives some points since I don't know that.
-Their questioning of Lancer, while sometimes too aggressive, showed critical thought, came off to me as something he really cared about. Also, the fact he is still badgering Lancer about it when no one else really cares proves this to me. I know scum love lengthy 1v1s as something to do, but it hasn't really been shaped like those - the posts aren't needlessly long.
-He's not doing work to look town, just "being town" if you'll forgive me for the unhelpful language
-They're not afraid to go against the grain (263) or post things they could be attacked for (304 - but not the part they acknowledge as "scummy" so much as "i just logiced it out")
Actually, I came into this with a townlean and am going to upgrade it to a townread.-
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Servant Lancer Goon
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I could go for Alter Ego. Is there a reason you don't want the master vote?In post 445, Servant Caster wrote:I'm more or less in for the inthread masonry, though I'd be more comfortable electing alter ego or foreigner atm. I don't think we're playing well by honoring foreigner's desire to not be elected when he is obvtown.
Moon Cancer, the game's barely started and it sounds like you're already over it. If you scumread Assassin so hard how about you do literally anything besides vote him as master to flip him?-
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Servant Lancer Goon
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In post 280, Servant Caster wrote:Are you watching me when I'm sleeping? I don't know why this keeps happening to me.
Honestly, I just want to king Foreigner whether he likes it or not and call it a day. I don't feel confident enough about anything else. VOTE: Foreigner
I liked Caster's immediate response to Archer here. I think scum (I def do it) like to double-down on their positions when called out on sounding unnatural like this, but Caster just looked at the post and went "huh, you're right".In post 284, Servant Caster wrote:
I don't have any objections to that actually, I don't know why I phrased it like we have to decide now. Maybe something to do with seeing a VC.In post 282, Servant Archer wrote:I am fine with this vote, but I don't think your sense of urgency reads natural.
I started quoting to explain why I TRed you and then remembered this interaction, so. Great. Are you really going to do the thing Assassin is doing and just totally ignore the parts of my posts that don't fit? I said it was weird that Assassin is only focusing on that one read and hasn't engaged me or engaged about me with anything else. But no, you totally shut me down and call it OMGUS. I guess I can't see it from outside my own POV but Assassin's questioning didn't even try to follow what I was saying, and then concluded with "Lancer didn't know how to explain the read" when I clearly already had as much as it wasIn post 438, Servant Caster wrote:
I mean, there's nothing really to his objection other than "nuh uh." If he wants to be more substantive about it that would help, but at present it just looks like omgus.In post 421, Servant Avenger wrote:@caster, why does lancer’s defense, coming from himself, weaken the argument? It’s a rule of thumb that bias means an untrue result, but this is short hand for evaluating a statement and seeing whether it is true or not. It has nothing to do with who said it, merely what they said.possibleto explain a read from that early.In post 440, Servant Caster wrote:
So you just hate the town and want us to lose? OkIn post 426, Servant Moon Cancer wrote:Well I say I'm lazy. My notes PT is currently 11 pages long and I actually probably could string together all the posts I've made about him there and paste it as a case. But I'm not going to.
Anyways, I liked this series of posts too but idk. Avenger's response to the Assassin is the only one that feels like he's actually considering the situation properly.In post 442, Servant Caster wrote:Brb gonna start deliberately being scummy to trick the town into optimal play-
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Servant Lancer Goon
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I don't enjoy how you've apparently put in all of this effort but don't seem interested in playing with the rest of us, and are actively voting someone you think is scum so the game sorts it for you in a way that's really bad if he is scum.
I don't even think it's AI, i just... don't like it.
This is @Moon Cancer though that's probably clear-
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Servant Lancer Goon
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Servant Lancer Goon
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Can't force you to change how you play.In post 467, Servant Moon Cancer wrote:
No, I just don't really intend to hash out reads with people. If I think something needs to be asked, I'll ask, but I'm fine just trying to solve the game in my notes PT for a while.In post 452, Servant Lancer wrote:Moon Cancer, the game's barely started and it sounds like you're already over it
Because I don't need to? What would doing that achieve in this phase?In post 452, Servant Lancer wrote:If you scumread Assassin so hard how about you do literally anything besides vote him as master to flip him?
If this were a normal game, I'd probably try to get rid of Archer and Shielder before him anyway.
My point about not voting your scumreads is that I'm pretty sure mafia wants mafia elected, and town wants town. I keep seeing the argument that the game should be balanced no matter what happens but that's not the same as the outcome of the first phase of the game not being important. That's like arguing that because a normal game should be balanced around a PR possibly dying night 1, it doesn't matter if they do.
Also, re:post count, I know it's limited but 60 pages per phase is a lot if you just don't spam.-
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Servant Lancer Goon
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Oh goody.In post 504, Servant Assassin wrote:when i am king you will be first against the wall
@Avenger - Did you see my post to/on Caster? I felt best about them at the time.
Now I think Assassin probablyistown because things just clicked in my head that i can't go into because "spirit of the game".-
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Servant Lancer Goon
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Servant Lancer Goon
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Shielder hasn't gotten into the game yet, but I'm not surprised they're finding it kind of overwhelming. Mech talk aside, talking to a bunch of faceless and nameless players is making it hard to look at big picture things for me too.
Also, scum can obviously still do this but making the mechanics clear to a player that's obviously struggling is still just a good thing to do. Scum do it because it's an easy way to objectively benefit town, not because it's a scummy thing to do. I remember Archer not liking Avenger's explaining things to Shielder, but given the obvious benefit to to the mechanics being understood by the whole list, it's a weird thing to pick on.-
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Servant Lancer Goon
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I like the way beast talked about their TRs on me and Avenger, I guess. I'll get back to this because I want to see how a thing goes.
Archer, you mention a lot of posts (ex Alter Ego's) and with Moon Cancer with your 469 that you say feel like busywork. But a lot of your own comments are also just neutral questions or statemejts. Like, in 433 you just say "good point" to something. What's the difference between scummy busywork and just casually saying words?-
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Servant Lancer Goon
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Avenger - No, I haven't read all of your posts, sorry. Focusing on one interest at a time is working for me when I have the time, so thanks for reminding me to do that.
Ruler - I had this whole thing on how it sounds like youre using real identities way too much in a game where that isn't verifiable, but if you're bringing it up like this at all I'm probably not going to be able to convince you to stop with one post.
But I do think your tinfoil is actually tinfoil, like not the self deprecating "I know this is wild but I do actually put some stock into it" sort of tinfoil but the really out there tinfoil.
Pedit - Hahahaha