Explosiva Mafia - GAME OVER

[Coron]

I suspect the scum are made up of people who have been around for around or under 2 years, but with at least one person with a good amount of experience. I could be right or wrong, but this is my general feel so far.

Right now I'm going to

FoS: M4yhem

[Coron]

Why me, Coron?

You, because you are scum.

Coron, any reason why? And, how will that help us (scum are made up of people who have been here less than 2 years, and more than 2 years)

I just think that the psychology of the person who picked DGB is that of a person with less than 2 years on MS, but with significant experience. Also, I'm not saying that people with more than ~2 years of experience couldn't be scum, I just think it's less likely.

[Coron]

I agree with DoS and Coron, except I'm not sure a really strong experience player is in the scum group for reasons that if discussed would probably just direct scum "kills" better.

By good amount of experience I don't mean like you, me, DGB(well obv not DGB), etc, I mean like maybe BM, M4yhem, or Max. Who have played a good number of games but aren't super ancient like us.x. Who have played a good number of games but aren't super ancient like us.

[Coron]

Can you expand on this 'psychology' or is it a secret?

The slower people learn my magic tricks the longer I can use them. Also, in this case explaining why I think this involves explaining what an experienced(better), mafia member would do in this case, and so they would start enacting the plan starting tomorrow.

I'm thinking whoever picked DGB will have played at least one game with her...unless it was random.

I suspect this is correct.

unFoS: m4yhem

for now. I feel like his response was genuine.

[Coron]

Why would you FoS M4yh3m when he is obvtown?

explain this.

Please explain this psychology for me. And also

HoS: Coron

for trying to run up M4yhem.

kkdf;lxdo0ser9hjho949ekl;ds';
Ok, that right there had as much actual content as your post. Just sayin'.

have you got a stutter irl too?

BM

*Sorry, that was a bit harsh. If you do, i'll feel

slightly

guilty now.

Stutter? I have no idea what you're even talking about...

BM post all this shit in one post, Please, I'm tired of seeing three of your posts right in a freaking row.

I dont think this is majorly concerning. I'd still like to hear what you think an experienced player would do, because i don't want your comments to affect the course of the game without due examination.

You can take my suspicions with as much as a grain of salt as you want, but they are MY suspicions, and you can't make ME not take them into account.

Coron- You still haven't explained why you think the scum are experienced.

If you're wondering why I think at least 1 of the 3 scum have a reasonable(but not great) amount of experience, it's basically because DGB is a fairly decent choice for the bomber, but again, not one I think I extremely experience scum would pick.

[Coron]

EBWODP: I guess I want people to trust me partially on reputation, and also want to get people thinking about this. I also want to be able to point and say "See? I called it!" When the game is over. It's quite possible I'm wrong, in which case I might look a bit foolish, but I still think I'm right.

[Coron]

It seems pretty self-explanatory. And jesus christ! Can you try and organise ur quotes a bit better? My eyes started bleeding...

I will if you organize your posts a bit better. Also, if you're going to say something explain what about the "organization" of the quotes is bad. I have them in the order that comments were posted in the thread.

Are you already sinking to insults? In case you haven't been reading, i still want an answer to the question.

In case it hasn't been made clear, or you didn't realize your question was asked before you asked it, it was already asked, I already have done all the answering I feel is in the best intrest of the town(and myself in the long term).

Do you often repeat yourself then?

When people ask me the same things over and over. Then I get angry at them and throw books.

If that was your main concern, you wouldnt have posted this shit in the first place. ftr.

BM

Your mom. Again, you're making completely unbased insults, so I'm going to return them to you. I feel that in mafia you let the other players know what you suspect whether or not you think that your stance will change their position. For instance I could say, I think BM is scum because he is not acting the same way I've seen him act as town in games I've been in, but rather is acting more like he does as scum. This is completely unprovable, personal, and antecdotal evidence, but that doesn't mean that I'm not going to post it.

Did you REALLY just say that?

You want people to...trust you on REPUTATION!? 0.o

I'm lost for words...

BM

Do I have a reputation for being a complete moron? I certainly hope not. If you want to see someone who played very well, and often times did good things when people followed him mostly based on reputation, look at some Internet stranger games. He was an excellent player that I can only hope to be 2/3rds as good as, or at least that's the party line.

Oh, and when I'm right this time, please remember it for next time. Thanks.

-Coron.

Well the only thing I know about you from the games we've played together so far, Coron, is that you have a tendency to lurk. So your reputation won't make much difference to me.

yeah, like I said, this crowd I don't really have a strong reputation in. I was gone when you guys were playing all the time, so it happens.


On lurker lynching, on analysing around 2/3rds of my own games, which admittedly were mostly minis, I found that I have fewer posts per game day as TOWN, and more as scum. Often times early game lurkers can be very useful in endgames. It's the people that'll get to endgames then lurk to death that really need to be lynched day 1, unfortunately there are few good predictors for that I know.

PS. Thanks for backing me up on those 2 point armlx.

[Coron]

No, i mean, you had them all bunched together with no spaces, so when i quoted your post to respond, everything was a massive block of text that i had to try and decipher.

so basically you're just being whiny. There is a very easy way to quote my posts to say everything you need to say about it. press the quote button, find the end of the text that comes up, then add the letters QFT.

Ooh, i'm actually crapping myself. The power of books is NOTHING compared to the power of TEH INTERNETZ.

this is a general case, obviously in this case I can not throw I book at you(well, I could if I knew in which general direction you lived, but that's beside the point).

I'm not sure what's funnier. The fact you used a cool insult, or the fact you are making up words as you go along. rofl

I'm down with making up words, as long as they're easily understandable. For instance, if I say "I hulked my shirt the other day" you would totally know what I meant, even though hulk is not technically a verb.

Really? Can you please post games to back this up? Because, personally, i cant recall 1 game we shared together.

Quit being an idiot. Hypotheticals are not reality, if you want, replace all instances of BM or Battle Mage with Jim Bob. The name doesn't matter.

I don't actually care. Whether you are a good player or not, is irrelevant. In case you hadn't noticed, this is a MAFIA game. The concept of Mafia is that there are a group called the 'Mafia', who you can't trust. They are baddies, and regardless of how good they are, their aim is to mislead you. You mustn't trust them.

The point is, firstly, there's a what? 17/20 chance I'm town(well 16/19 from a protown player's perspective but still). Thems good odds. Plus, I don't expect you to trust me explicitly, and say "oh, Coron said it, it must be true". I want you to say "oh, Coron said it, that makes it more likely." There is a huge difference.

That is the first thing anybody learns about Mafia. So why the hell do you think people will trust your opinions on grounds of intelligence, when you've given NO reason to suggest that you are protown? I actually feel insulted, not just for me, but on behalf of everyone else here you've just insulted. 0.o

Wow, you're being dense, read my above paragraph.

Oh, and when I'm right this time, please remember it for next time. Thanks.

ugh. Grow up...

Are you saying that past experience with a player doesn't effect how you react to them? It should. If a player was right in the past it should increase your percieved chance of them being right in the future.

[Coron]

no, but it means they are completely useless, and may as well be dead.

I agree that it is scary to look over lurkers too much, and that we should bias ourselves slightly towards anyone with few and/or particularly short posts(basically people with low content levels), in order to promote activity, but that doesn't mean that we just lynch them no questions asked, except in super extreme cases.

my 5 cents.

-Coron

[Coron]

like you do, ya mean?

often your posts need more than a QFT. Just for reference, that was a joke.

Have you got a webcam? I REALLY wanna see this!

not in my door room But I might be able to video tape it with my camera then upload it.

thats gotta be the worst example ever. 0.o
Hulked? You ripped it apart like the Hulk? That's my best guess, but i'm really clueless.

You got it on the first try! See?

That's the problem, Mr Idiot. Ya see, your scenario was that, you would give a meta regardless of whether it existed or not, because that was your opinion. My point is that, because you have no grounds to make this meta, your opinion is invalid. Which is why i'm criticising your 'opinions' so far.

Let's see, it starts out with an insult, then go on to say things that I didn't say at all, you continue to make arguements against things I explicitly said I wasn't saying. It was a damn example, get over yourself, I was not saying I had any meta on you. I was saying assuming I thought this thing, I would post that I thought it, no question. I mean, most people would probably.

5/6 given that DGB is town. But nobody WILL say that, because whether you claim to know the setup inside out, the fact is, your affiliation can't be proven. In fact, i'm leaning scum on you atm, simply because you seem to think you can make statements without backing them up, and people will simply follow your lead because you claim to be a really good player. 0.o

At this point the person I care most about convincing is DGB, as DGB is our current Queen. So in her case is would be 16/19. Also, this paragraph you fail to understand probability. Let's say there is a 5/6 chance I'm town, and if I'm town there is a 9/10 chance I'm right(note: number pulled out of a hat, no not literally BM, don't be dumb). That's still a 15/20 chance that I'm right. Since BM doesn't understand hypotheticals he probably won't understand this either. It's sad.

And to think, people call ME arrogant!

I don't argue if someone calls me arrogant. I might give myself more credit sometimes than I deserve, but then again I'm right an aweful lot(there I go being arrogant again).

If you were confirmed protown, maybe. But as you aren't, that isn't really an issue is it.

BM

Seriously. You're pulling my leg, right?

[Coron]

Alrighty.

If I am going to 'splode a lurker, and there is nothing I would love more, I will pick which one. So I suggest that the lurkerscum start posting now. I may be unpredictable, but I will be predictably merciless.

Here are the 4 players I am considering blowing up at this time.

(1) Tarhalindur
(2) BM
(3) The guy Tarhalindur is bus'ing: forbiddenlight
(4) The guy BM is bus'ing: Coron

Which of these 4 should I pick, and why.

I might even count 'splodevotes, but my counting accuracy is notoriously bad.

If I had to pick, I'd say:
Tarhalindur, basically by process of elimination, and because he's posted the least of the options
BM: Basically just annoys the heck out of me, I'm not sure that gives me a read either way, but he's at least not lurking. I would not mind if you nuked him simply because it would mean I wouldn't have to deal with him anymore.
Coron: I read his role pm, I know he's town. I suspect you just have a grudge against him.
Forbiddenlight: overall his posts have struck me as mildly protown.

[Coron]

Oh, by the way, I think we should get a longer day 1, more posts, so basically, and people other than me DGB and BM posting their opinions about stuff, but DGB seems to be helping that along already! Good work DGB.

[Coron]

Definitely false. D1 lynches are only random when people dick around and don't scum hunt until deadline.

DGB: Of those 4, I say Tar. Max or M4yh3m is probably better though.

Also, what info do we get from a D1 lurker lynch? None? And then D2, we have no info so..... back to step A of killing a lurker? Nice plan.....

QFT

But people can still give opinions without voting, and DGB gives in to peer pressure. So, our opinions still matter.

[Coron]

This post is fairly long, I'm sorry.

Lol, point taken. But seriously. Wth are you smoking?

English.

you aren't listening. My point which you just aren't getting is that when you post what you think, and it leaves alot to be desired, it not only makes you look scummy, but it WILL invoke questions like 'why do you think that?'. And btw, the insult was ironic. So chill-ax.

No, it's not scummy, yes people will ask me why I think that, then I'll explain why it's not protown for me to explain, then the person should drop it. Yes, that's you.

Evidently. But could you be a bit more subtle about kissing her ass? 0.o
'Queen'? 'DGB seems to be helping that along already', 'good work DGB!'

I didn't coin the word queen in regard to DGB. Seriously. Well, the other stuff was just what I thought, next time I'll post lots of things that I don't think. At first I saw DGB's post as her pushing for blowing stuff up like soon, then I wrote the first part, looked back over the post, and saw that DGB's intentions seemed to be the same as mine.

Ouch. An insult that wasn't even funny. I'm very disappointed Coron.

They

You

told me you were smart!
Those odds dont make for great reading. Assuming theres a 9/10 chance you're right, if town? I think you're being a tad optimistic. And EVEN THEN, the odds of your being right are only 75%. Not something id take for granted by any means. I think you just invalidated your own point. lol

What are the chances of me saying something that is true as scum? Not 0, well in this case, it's actually literally 0, because if I'm scum, it's not true. But seriously 9/10 is not THAT optimistic, seeing that all I'm calling is that armlx is town, which has a default probability of what? 3/4s did you say? I don't feel like looking it up, but the number was HYPOTHETICAL, HYPOTHETICAL, HYPOFREAKINGTHETICAL. Do you know what that means? I'm pretty sure I'm not making up that word(well, other than the one with freaking in the middle). Also, even *I* am not taking what I'm saying for *granted* I merely think there is an increased probability that armlx is town. Also, if I missed any highly experienced players please correct me.

No, that's not me. Either it's your imagination, or you just got a new playmate. And she's royalty.

Oh, you're right, it's all those princesses I keep locked up in my dorm room.

-Coron.

I'm all for blowing up Coron.

as much fun as dying within a day of starting a game is(I held the title for most night one deaths for a year!), I'd rather get a chance to blow the shit out of someone.

I'm all for blowing up Coron.

Interesting choice, why?

He's well within his self-proclaimed scum-meta:

On lurker lynching, on analysing around 2/3rds of my own games, which admittedly were mostly minis, I found that I have fewer posts per game day as TOWN, and more as scum.

First, now that I know, it obv changes, and the difference is around uh... 3 posts per game day(which is admittedly around 20%, yeah games were shorter back on the day).

Also, part of this whole thing is my first game ever, which I had like 4 times my average posts per day, and ended as scum. Yeah, basically that arguement holds no water.

If you want other random metas on me, let me know, you might find out that I post less as cop, then realize that that's not a role in this game!

On a more serious note, if I restrict it to games that ended 06 or later, which will eliminate the time when I was a noobish noob, the numbers magically reverse.

So basically I'm using a meta of myself here as a sample "meta of person", I mean, not all people are the same, and I'm certainly not a typical scummer, but it's a start point at least.

Fun with spreadsheets! It's fun! Try it sometime!

FWIW, my 2 finished scum games since my return I had 11 posts in 2 days and 19 posts in three. Kind of pathetic if you ask me. I need to work on that.

[Coron]

"'Speaking of which, not that it's really good play, especially D1, but for future reference Mod, can scum give a bomb to another scum or does it have to be to a townie? (has to be a townie IIRC)'



WHY THE HELL WOULD TOWN ASK THIS QUESTION WHEN IT'S MORE BENEFICIAL FOR SCUM? Also, setup speculation." Actually it's really not beneficial to anyone. No endgame situation, no nothing. Also, having the whole town know if it did matter, would be good compared to him just messaging the mod with the question. I find this actually to be a small point in his favor.

Overall I have to agree with what you say, just figured I'd point this part out.

[Coron]

Then, you are stupid for bringing the damn point up in the first place, because if you didn't want people to ask, as is kinda natural in this game, dont make vague statements about things it is anti-town to explain!

It's not that I don't want people to ask. I do, really, but I don't want people to keep pounding their heads against a brick wall like you seem to be.

There's no reason why it wouldn't be 0, given that there's no chance of you being called out on your comment, and hence, if you are scum, the lie can only benefit you.

Say that instead of the actual statement I made, I just said "armlx is town". If one of armlx or me dies, it makes the other look scummy. This is known as a classic WIFOM situation. While on average you'd believe that I should try to clear my partner more anyway, some percentage of the time I should just incriminate a townie as scum, so I can still be right while being scum.

To change tack slightly- do you think it is really worthwhile to push an issue like this, which has the purpose of saying 'Armlx is town', as if that is some kind of revolutionary concept that nobody else could have even considered? And then, to go as far as to say it, and then not bother explaining... 0.o

At the time I posted it, I did not realize Dgb, Armlx, and I were the only very experienced players in this game. I'm also sure that armlx at least has some clue what I'm talking about, or else my reason for thinking armlx is town are completely non-valid. I've explained why I'm not explaining it.

Christ...

BM

oooooookay there.

Just drop it. This is not helpful.

-Coron.

[Coron]

The way I read your argument it sounded like "Look, when I'm town I post less, so let's not lynch lurkers" (which actually implies that this is more than a specific meta on you, but a general meta).

Well, I'm just saying is not unreasonable to think some people post more as scum than as town. This is not true of me currently.

And now it's not even true for

yourself

.

Oh, it's true for the me of the past, just not the me of the present. I don't see why the me of the present is any better to make generalizations from than the me of the past. I personally think using both would get us a better generalization that would apply to all players.

So, what was the purpose? Which of the lurkers did you want to save?

I'm against just finding the lurkiest lurker and bombing them. I want to bomb the SCUMIEST person. I know this is a shocking concept. First let me define scumiest, because I think many people actually have a problem with this concept(and this is why lurking is such a strong strategy as scum).

So, the top most scummiest thing you can do is provide absolutely nothing to the game only making posts to say "I'm here" and stuff like that. People like that should be lynched VERY FIRST.

Next, take a look at all of a players posts. Find all of the scummy things, take this mental "scumminess value" and divide it by your mental "amount of content" value that they've produced. In general I think this is a pretty good way to figure out who to lynch. There are reasons to bias this towards people with few or many posts, but I personally think that they basically offset

[Coron]

Say that instead of the actual statement I made, I just said "armlx is town". If one of armlx or me dies, it makes the other look scummy.

Unvote, Vote: Coron

Did you REALLY just claim scum?

BM

No, I don't see it. Sorry, but as far as I can tell I did not.

[Coron]

Say that instead of the actual statement I made, I just said "armlx is town". If one of armlx or me dies, it makes the other look scummy.

Unvote, Vote: Coron

Did you REALLY just claim scum?

BM

no... I don't see it.

And I don't disagree. It is unreasonable to think most people post more as scum than as town, though (unless you can provide some numbers that are not solely based on your playstyle from a couple years ago). Lurking is not a town-tell.

I don't disagree. I just think it's not the be-all and end-all

And yet you specifically pointed out the "I post less as town"-you, thereby generalizing without "using both".
The other you only came about after I pointed out that you're posting a lot.

Misquotes are bad. "On lurker lynching, on analysing around 2/3rds of my own games, which admittedly were mostly minis, I found that I have fewer posts per game day as TOWN, and more as scum. " Which doesn't even mean the same thing as what you said I said. Unless you're quoting something other than the orginal post.

You mean, like k7?

sure, but it breaks down early in the game. This game has only been open for like 3 days. SRSLY, give some more time.


---------

Did you REALLY just claim scum?

That, and that armlx is his partner :p

still not seeing it.

Not necessarily, but it is certainly indicated. No doubts on Coron himself, so i'm more than happy to see him die now.

BM

The only one who shouldn't have doubts are the scum. Just sayin'.

Say that instead of the actual statement I made, I just said "armlx is town". If one of armlx or me dies, it makes the other look scummy.

Unvote, Vote: Coron

Did you REALLY just claim scum?

BM

Wait a minute. Is he also saying that armlx is his buddy?

... I'm still not seeing it. Unles you guys are having problems with hypotheticals again. I'm willing to entertain the the thought from your point of view I might be scum. I am not scum.

You mean, like k7?

And Twomz.

I don't think Coron claimed scum. You guys are kidding, right?

Good work.

[Coron]

And yet you specifically pointed out the "I post less as town"-you, thereby generalizing without "using both".
The other you only came about after I pointed out that you're posting a lot.

Misquotes are bad. "On lurker lynching, on analysing around 2/3rds of my own games, which admittedly were mostly minis, I found that I have fewer posts per game day as TOWN, and more as scum. " Which doesn't even mean the same thing as what you said I said. Unless you're quoting something other than the orginal post.

Where have I misquoted you.
The topic was lurker lynching, right? You then gave the anecdotal note that you post more as scum than as town (something which we've established is not even true nowadays).
Where is my misquote?

"I post less as town" What I actually said is roughly "on average I have posted less as town" if you had posted this I would not be making a fuss over whether they were actually my words. Tense is really important.

Good work.

Thank you, Coron. Do I get a gold star?

You can reach for the stars, but you'll never make it. Sorry.

Say that instead of the actual statement I made, I just said "armlx is town". If one of armlx or me dies, it makes the other look scummy.

Unvote, Vote: Coron

Did you REALLY just claim scum?

BM

No, I don't see it. Sorry, but as far as I can tell I did not.

Please explain your comment then. Or better yet, let's have Armlx do it.

BM

Okay, whatever you want.

[Coron]

Not necessarily, but it is certainly indicated. No doubts on Coron himself, so i'm more than happy to see him die now.

BM

The only one who shouldn't have doubts are the scum. Just sayin'.

When you just admitted you were scum, what the hell do you expect? 0.o

except I didn't.

Say that instead of the actual statement I made, I just said "armlx is town". If one of armlx or me dies, it makes the other look scummy.

Unvote, Vote: Coron

Did you REALLY just claim scum?

BM

Wait a minute. Is he also saying that armlx is his buddy?

... I'm still not seeing it. Unles you guys are having problems with hypotheticals again.

The fact that you don't see it makes it worse. I can just about believe you're not very good at wording things, and got in a complete tangle. Or even that you were just making a joke. But, you seem to genuinely not understand what you have just said.

No, now that I look at it, you're definately having problems with hypotheticals. I didn't get it for a while, but I now see what you're saying, even if you're completely and totally wrong.

You can lecture about hypotheticals until the cows come home. I'm not having any of it. Do you realise how little sense you are making?

You do realize that these hypotheticals are hypothetical on which I make hypotheses. Or something.

The only way you're gonna accept this is by trying to explain what you said. No 'its a hypothetical' bs. Just explain your comment.

I was saying hypothetically if I were scum, I wouldn't always be wrong for reasons given in the post that I won't bother going through in this post.

Anyway, yeah, I gotta get ready for class, I'll do a more in depth response after class.

[Coron]

As far as I can tell, what Coron said was that if he was scum and you were his buddy and he said you looked town and then one of you was lynched, the other one would look really scummy which is why it's better for scum to sometimes tell the truth and say a townie looks townie.

It all comes back to Coron's arguement that we should trust him because of his reputation which BM says is bull because Coron might be scum.

This man knows what is going on. I am impressed.

Armlx apparently missed the "slip" as much as I did my first like 4 times reading it. What they are saying is that by not explicitly saying in that post that I was referring to a hypothetical in which both Armlx and I were scum, that I claimed scum with armlx. I felt that it was pretty obvious from the post that I quoted that that's what I'm referring to. I auto delete things more than 1 quote deep most of the time, but if you refer back to BM's post to which I was responding, you'll see that the post he responded to with that particular statement EXPLICITLY states that we are for this exercize to assume that I am scum. My post was simply an extention of that.

[Coron]

"I post less as town" What I actually said is roughly "on average I have posted less as town" if you had posted this I would not be making a fuss over whether they were actually my words. Tense is really important.

I don't see much difference to be honest. A meta always is "on average".

"I post less as town" implies that it's my current meta. Metas change over time.

[Coron]

(And what does HoA mean? Hand of attack? Herring of anger?

My best guess is Hand of Annoyance. I've used FoA at times, this is the first time I've seen a person other than me use something like that, so I'm not sure if he means the same thing I do, but it's my best guess.

[Coron]

"I post less as town" What I actually said is roughly "on average I have posted less as town" if you had posted this I would not be making a fuss over whether they were actually my words. Tense is really important.

I don't see much difference to be honest. A meta always is "on average".

"I post less as town" implies that it's my current meta. Metas change over time.

*shrug*
I think my point was that you were using your meta, excuse me "long time average meta", to argue against lurker lynchers which seemed off, because there are far better arguments against it (they do not create much information, for example), so it looked a bit desperate.

I was adding something actually concrete and new to the discussion. The "should we lynch lurkers" discussion is mostly played out, with one side saying "It hurts the town and it's a scum tell," while the other side saying "Nuh uh, it doesn't hurt the town nearly as much as the scum do, and it's not a scum tell," neither of them having any solid backing for their claim. At least this is something that it's just "I feel."

I'm not Stoofer.

For reference neither am I.

[Coron]

I'm saying pressuring DGB is a risky move since she might explode so anyone taking a risk like that seems townier to me, since they want answers more than they value their life.

I support this motion.

DGB, why do you support this motion?

Just sayin' if scum know about this, it is super easy to exploit.

[Coron]

I'm suddenly super-tempted to blow up Coron...

Coron, time to say your prayers.

You'd be making a mistake. I'm sure you don't like doing that.

PS. I refuse to pray to you, DGB, no matter how much you demand it.

They wouldn't want to risk it. Not with an unpredictable quantity such as I.

Hm, so it seems that you want to classify it as an action that brings attention to the player(something town doesn't mind much, but scum wants to avoid as much as possible).

I generally think these actions are protown, so I can agree with that, but we always have to remember it's only a small factor in a big equation.

I guess I can concede the point on whether it's an protown indicator, but I still don't think it should be taken as anywhere close to him being cleared.

[Coron]

Just sayin' if scum know about this, it is super easy to exploit.

Maybe now it is (except now you said that, it isn't) but when Battousai did it it wasn't

Do you think this is the first game ever where something of this nature came up? Otherwise your arguement here is at least partially invalid. I take tells this non-sustainable in situations that are super-unique with a major grain of salt.

Oh, I don't mind doing mistakes, I do them all the time. I'm not asking that you pray to me, but to the bogus deity of your choice.

I say he's close to being cleared.

I'm sorry, I don't have any bogus deities, so...

If(hypothetically), we were to make a bet now, what odds are the worst you would accept? 10:1? 100:1? 100000000:1?

How about a similar assessment of the probability I'm scum(obv for this one you wouldn't be betting with me... I have inside info)?

[Coron]

I agree 'woe and alas' isn't much of a tell. I do it as town, sometimes.

TSS makes a good point about Coron's reaction being over the top and I've found in other games his instincts are generally good.

Unvote, Vote:Coron

Good morning, sunshine.

Do you disagree with my defense, or do you just think that the fact that I decided to rigorously respond to such a small tell is suspicious?

If it's the second, then part of it is that I like futzing around with my own records, looking at how and what I did when, which is kind of the reason I keep this spreadsheet. Plus, when someone is wrong on the internet, I somehow feel compelled to correct them.

[Coron]

Does that go for scumtells too or just town tells?

both.

I wasn't keen on how you were so fast to point out that it isn't your current meta. Why even mention it in that case, since it's the current meta that we need for catching scum?

This has been explained, I don't like having to explain myself repeatedly.

I also know of at least one game in your past where you lurked as scum, so your statement seemed incorrect to begin with.

It's not. Numbers don't lie. According to my spreadsheet I have recorded 16 games that I finished as scum, so sure, as I even stated later, I recently have lurked a lot as scum, but also as I said earlier if you were paying attention, my very first game ever, newbie 71 if you want to look it up, I had 150 posts in 3 days, and that really really brings up the average for that. You say that you doubt my actual statement of fact. Do you want me to list the games I have figured into my average so you can look them up? I can do that if you really want me to.

[Coron]

I guess I have to defend my killing lurkers policy again, eh Max?

First of all, a lurker is significatly more likely to be scum than the average poster. Not posting content is a scumtell. Saying 'I can't see anything worth commenting on' is a scumtell. This is because it's much harder to produce content when you're scum. You aren't really suspicious of anyone and so you have to fake it and that's harder than making actual content which comes to you naturally as you read.

I know I post less as scum. That's true of many other people too.

Also, scum might post less to avoid saying something suspicious.

There are other reasons people don't post much, of course, but players often let you know in that case.

The other reason I'd prefer to kill a lurker is it hurts the town less if we're wrong. Say we have a scummy Twomz and a scummy Coron. If we blow up scummy Twomz
and he's town, the town loss is small. He's posted, what, three times? Twice with no content, once with innaccurate content. Coron, on the other hand, posts loads. We kill him and he's town, we lose a big chunk of protown information.

There are townies and townies, you see.

Of course ideally, we'd kill scum, not town, but I don't think it's unreasonable to think about minimizing town losses.

Also, Coronscum is far more likely to give himself or his scumbuddies away, given the range of things he comments on compared to Twomzscum.

This is about the most reasonable arguement I've seen for lurker lynches, in I dunno, forever. I agree with most of this, however I just don't think I agree with it to the degree that m4yhem does. I agree, lurkers deserve extra consideration for the reasons you've stated, however, for people who have posted more, you have more information on them, and so, if they have a high scumminess-density in their posts, it means a little more. Player A posts 1 thing that you would list as "moderately scummy", Player B has 50 posts each of which is "moderately scummy", which would you be more sure is scum? If you're logicking right, then Player B, barring outside circumstances, metas, etc.

[Coron]

Page 8

Post 181:

<snips>
Evidently. But could you be a bit more subtle about kissing her ass? 0.o
'Queen'? 'DGB seems to be helping that along already', 'good work DGB!'

Rofl. I see what you did thar.

DGB is the most important person in the game today, her and the person she blows up, so why this post? I think everyone but you actually cares that DGB has the power of Veto. In 3 minutes she could blow up anyone, but she doesn't because everyone wants to please the queen bee. If you don't please the Queen Bee you're dead.

FoS: Max

There will be a discernible difference between scum and town in this game. Town will appeal to the Bomb-holder's intelligence, and will hope that logic prevails in that way. It is Scum who i would expect to be forced to rely on begging, pleading, AtoA and the rest.

DGB is a law unto herself. I'm not going to make myself look like an ass in an attempt to be spared from dying. Any half decent player will look down upon individuals who think buddying up is their ticket to survival.

You won't please the Queen Bee by kissing her ass, because the Queen Bee has to take care first of the security of the Hive.

I already explained why I posted each of those. And I'd like to point out that many people have called DGB the queen. I wasn't the first, nor the last, I don't get the hang up.

[Coron]

also,

Unvote, Vote: Coron

It's time to turn the heat up!

BM

Hey buddy.

[Coron]

I do not remember you ever saying that you guarantee you'll bomb the majority vote.
Will you?

Footnote: DGB gets as many votes as she wants.

[Coron]

Which is equivalent to all other votes counting for nothing, and hence being useless.

No, actually, we can achieve a majority without any votes from DGB, in which case DGB is obligated to kill our target. It does mean that at any time DGB can say "screw it, this day has gone on too long" and kill a person.

[Coron]

Vote: Max

[Coron]

Vote: Max

Explain your vote.

If I had to pick a person I thought was scum, I'd pick Max.

[Coron]

Will not blow up today:

TDC: Good clever content, has earned the right to live.
Battousai: He's contributing enough actual content that if he's scum, he's 100% going to get caught and leave traces. Besides I don't see a case against him.
DragonsofSummer: He's making sense, he's logical, he's good.
forbiddanlight: I just re-read. Nah. Not scum.
Haschel: Little content, but so far, so good. He also noticed Crazy vs. Iron Man weirdness.
Jex: Makes sense so far.
M4yhem: As townie as they get.

My scumdar rattles:

alvinz95: Little content, seems to play innocent at every corner.
Crazy: Attention to Iron Man pretty odd. I don't get it. Makes stronger case against forbiddanlight.
Max: Definitely some weirdness detected. Under observation.

My scumdar shoots sparks:

Twomz: Already plotting endgame OMG that's so scummy, bad attittude, not really involved or playing. But plotting endgame. Nice.
BM: I just learned that BM is not a girl! I so know that he gave me the bomb.
Coron: Can't help but think BM and Coron are buddies. Look, Coron confessed! He keeps confessing scum.
Tarhalindur: Aye, he's under fire, now he's doing the disappearing act...

Potentially explodalicious surprises:

Jex: Almost no actual content, defines lurking in plain sight.
Iron Man: Superlurkmeister.
JordanA24: Z'OMGzzzzz... another Champion of Lurkerdom.
killa seven: Mega-lurking, including his meta.

TDC: eh, not sure he's definately town, I probably wouldn't blow up today either.
Battousai: you make a good point that we can wait until later when we have a better case for his scumminess or innocence, but I personally get some serious scum alarms from some of his posts.
DragonsofSummer: I got nothing here.
forbiddanlight: Yeah, I can agree with you.
Haschel: I've got nothing here.
Jex: again I have nothing.
M4yhem: I agree.
alvinz95: I got nothing to say here
Crazy: Yeah, I agree that Crazy has been a bit off.
Max: I obviously agree here.
Twomz: Yar. I could support this.
BM: Uh, your reasoning isn't good, and I assume it's a joke, plus I'm not really seeing BM scum at this point.
Coron: Yes, because the only use of buddy is in the contexts of "scum buddy"
Tarhalindur: I could buy this.
TSS: I agree, completely, I forgot about him when I placed my vote for some reason.

unvote Vote: TSS

These are just rough quick estimates, I haven't done any rereading yet, so all of this is very far up in the air.

[Coron]

Oh, and I have nothing to say about any in that last category, I forgot about them when I was doing this, but really, nothing worth noting.

[Coron]

I have no idea what Coron means by:

Coron: Yes, because the only use of buddy is in the contexts of "scum buddy"

Did you follow the link from DGB's post? It links to a post in which I quote your vote for me and say "Hey buddy."

[Coron]

Unvote, Vote:Crazy for lacking integrity and backing off his alleged suspect under pressure.

I never was that suspicious of Forbiddan to be honest. I was just less suspicious of DGB's other choices.

I still wanna kill Iron Man, though. I'd probably put Max at #2, but I haven't looked at this game really in-dephtly yet, so I dunno.

Yes, I do plan on staying under the radar until I can say something decent.. No use in me getting myself lynched, right?

That's a scum strategy. Suspicion ++.

[Coron]

In order to detect careless Mafias, you usually look for people who seem to stand out in the crowd. So naturally, the first step would be “Act like a crowd”. Don’t try forcibly to shine every game. Don’t see mountains where there are mice. Some players act as though they have to dominate every game, regardless if they have a clue or not. Such behaviour will confuse the other players, possibly making them follow you in vain, possibly making them lynch you and waste precious time.

Right, and our crowd should all be talking, not all be silent.

We act like a crowd by all looking for scum, not all trying to "fly under the radar."

[Coron]

Well, that's what I'm planning on doing... as soon as I find some scum.

...there is no 100% scum "found" you have to say "such and such is more likely to be scum," and you should be able to do that now.

[Coron]

I PMed the mod at the beginning of the game with the order in which I would blow people up, were I to become the bomb. Yeah, that's right.

[Coron]

Since we're going to night soon, I'd just like to remind the scum that I'm irresponsible and highly volatile; if you give me the bomb tommorrow, I'll probably kill someone with my second post, and that's if I'm really trying hard to restrain myself.

Psssh ill do it with my first post.. HAH beat that.

I'll PM my choice to the mod the minute I find out I'm a bomb. And just not post, and laugh as the day ends without any posts.

That is extremely anti-town imo.

Well then, all the more reason to give me a bomb right?

[Coron]

I think it's very anti-town to ask for the bomb. I note you all for asking.

Why? Only townies are going to get bombs anyway. They're asking for the bomb for the honor to test their scumdars.

I agree with.... Max. I think requesting the bomb is a kind of tongue-in-cheek way of saying "COME ON SCUM! NK ME!" which invokes a whole load of WIFOM. The scum don't do requests, as far as i'm aware. It seems like a pointless protestation of one's towniness.

BM

I personally just wanted to top everyone. Stupid Coron.

Owned.

[Coron]

vote: TSS

[Coron]

Yay sorry I didn't get to post over the weekend. On sunday the 60mph winds left over from huricane Ike knocked out power for about 90,000 people in Ohio. I just got my power back not too long ago. When the power went out I was writing a post and that got wiped out. I'll see what I can do today or tomorrow after i get off work.

60 MPH=Pansy winds.

[Coron]

Don't be so hard on them, Coron; they are, after all, Ohioans.

I'm an Illinoisan, so really, I take that as no excuse.