Guns & Roses V [Game Over]

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ego.

VOTE: iconeum

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VOTE: johnnyfarrar

i am slightly +town on bell for post 16. it struck me as an anti-town thing to say, however it rings like one of those anti-town things that scum are less likely to say. if it's accurate, his post felt like a "warning" to scum about albert - that i imagine scum would probably keep to a scum pt.

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Tanner, Jonny, Hiraki are town.

Or not.

i'm interested in hearing why johnny is town. or not.

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ico, is there anything else behind your vote other than scumreading RQS?

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i can work with that, talk to me about bell. perhaps i'm

also

a bit biased, but i don't see early townreads as pingy?

as for refusal to engage, that also struck me as an ~odd~ thing town does more often than scum - stepping down before it turns into a shitfight *and* risking the obvious accusation of running away and refusing to engage.

do you have an opinion on my 21, both in terms of reasons to think bell is +town and in terms of me giving "easy" townreads?

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i wasn't asking if you have a problem with 16, i was wondering if you could see/agree why i thought 16 was +town, though looking at it now, it's probably a dumb question and i'm assuming the answer is no.

bell had like 3 town and 1 scumread after 22 posts (total ingame posts this entire game had at that time)

i didn't take his scumread of dunn to be serious (considering it was made after dunn had posted only once).

@bell

, could you clafiry?

i don't think he's exactly sticking to his reads, hell, he walked back from his hiraki townread within the page. i don't think early reads themselves are that brave or revolutionary, but the ~event~ of townleaning hiraki and then going back on it makes me think it's more likely to be genuine town thought rather than preplanned fake reads.

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that is a solid thought

?

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does "solid" mean "towny" or is it more like "A for effort"?

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To Tanner, Gún, and Rosé, is there any reason you didn't answer the RQS?

for now let's say i didn't feel like it.

@sandman, do you believe that someone being rude is AI (scum!indicative in this case)? i get the feeling that part of your scumread on bell is the read that he doesn't want to appear too in the background, but as soon as there's any attention on him he backs down. on second thought, do you think that's likely scum behaviour? i can't quite put my finger on it, but it seems like an... odd scum!mindset?

as for refusal to engage, that also struck me as an ~odd~ thing town does more often than scum - stepping down before it turns into a shitfight *and* risking the obvious accusation of running away and refusing to engage.

i don't see the point of playing probabilities here

er, have i been playing the game wrong all this time? isn't the whole point seeing whose behaviour is more or less likely to come from certain alignment? (as i type this out, i feel like it sounds sarcastic, but i didn't intent it to be and don't know how to word it otherwise.)

tho i suppose you could argue that it isn't beneficial for scum to be sticking to reads at all like that, thus its more likely to come from town

but now after tanner's post, you have two abnormalities from town posting that are forced actions (i.e. there's no way that they can be done without intention) and that are anti-town. is the idea here that bell is so anti-town that he's town? i won't buy it and in a game where multiple people are going to shoot tonight, i don't want to play that
game

it's not just being too anti-town that he's town, it's more... things that i feel scum are less likely to do. i feel like you won't like this answer.

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i guess the better wording is that you're playing probabilities too hard? to me it seems like you're townreading him for being too scummy to be scum which to me seems like an intentional act from Bell. I think we're agreeing there - although I don't have concrete evidence of that - but you're not agreeing on the final assessment. I'm moreso asking you to think why you should think someone who is actively anti-town is town. Are they doing it because it's their playstyle? Are they doing it because they have a grudge? I don't see a likelihood in either of those things but I could be wrong. What I definitely don't see is a productive way to play the game.

we're not agreeing on it being *intentional*. if you could show me how those posts seem intentionally crafted to seem too scummy to be scum, i'd see your point and maybe even agree with it. but i'm reading them as posts made in the moment as the game was happening. i guess my answer would be playstyle, though maybe i'm projecting the way i play the game.

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how many reads do you have this game?

i tried to recall reads from memory, and realized the answer is "less than i usually do by this point". maybe "less than i should". i'll blame it on not yet receiving an answer to the things that currently interest me.

uncrowned kind of surprised me with 124. it seemed like a.. very ~serious~ post almost out of nowhere, rather soon into the game, when his early posting struck me as more memey? it felt like a positive surprise, though. i liked the reasoning behind the reads, even if i don't agree with all of them (namely abr and dgb).

@uncrowned, out of curiosity, were your reads in 124 listed in any order?

Try to wrangle it in a bit though, yeah? You're actin' more like

bait

right now for them.

could you talk about this a bit? i don't understand what you mean by "bait" when he's being mostly townread?

it took me... over 30 minutes to write this post. sigh.

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that moment someone townreads you and you don't think you've obvtowned at all yet

There is a name for a player that does that: scum.

do you think uncrowned is scummy for it?

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it took me... over 30 minutes to write this post. sigh.

"Hi there! I'm Rosé. I saw your transcript earlier and I like that you admitted this without shame, but could I ask why it took so long?"

hello! it happened that i sat down to type and realized nothing was coming to me as a response. sometimes it takes me a while to find inspiration in a game. do you have anything you think could help me find it?

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"A

game.

.. maybe this all is just a game, and we're pawns being moved around by some greater force. I'm not sure if you were called here for the same reason Gún and I were, you give off a bounty hunter kind of vibe, but I'm nervous to say the least about the circumstances. To answer your question though, I usually speak to people face-to-face! I find a conversation is a great way to learn more about a person's character and whether they have good intentions, and can also get you thinking more deeply about surrounding events."

"i think of it as a game, yeah. a game with some really high stakes. are you saying you're nervous about me? if so, i'm interested in hearing why."

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you're missing the "i cannot read the roleplaying because of the font colour."

also rose is apparently not doing much *other than* roleplaying and one of these days i'll read their posts to see if that's the case.

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"Not you, silly! You seem nice, no, I'm nervous about why Gún and I were asked to pay this city a visit. Dark rumors about something truly evil lurking in the alleyways-"

"Ah-ah-ah," Gún quickly cut in, "Easy there, Rosé. Ya know we shouldn't say more unless he can prove he's been called here for the same reason as us."

She turned to look at the bounty hunter, "Well, have ya?"

"apologies, i misunderstood. though, i'm unsure what you mean by proving it? as far as i know, our loyalty cannot be proven while we are living, and i'll make an assumption that that isn't what you had in mind for me."

To Tanner, Gún, and Rosé, is there any reason you didn't answer the RQS?

for now let's say i didn't feel like it.

@sandman, do you believe that someone being rude is AI (scum!indicative in this case)? i get the feeling that part of your scumread on bell is the read that he doesn't want to appear too in the background, but as soon as there's any attention on him he backs down. on second thought, do you think that's likely scum behaviour? i can't quite put my finger on it, but it seems like an... odd scum!mindset?

I think someone being rude is probably a feature of who that person is rather than their alignment. I would say maybe it is very slightly indicative of being town, but without knowing a person that’s no better than random. I think that’s quite likely from mafia, yes. Again, simply coasting out a game is not a way to win, you’re likely to just be eliminated for failing to do anything. It’s, at its best, a weak strategy. However, you also need to survive if you’re mafia. So if you piss off the wrong person, you have a strong reason to try to defuse things rather than using the conflict to try to get a better read on them or to use the situation of the conflict to try to get reads on the rest of the players e.g. how they position around the two of you.

right, but that is kind of my point. what bell did seems kinda... worst of both worlds, if you know what i mean? stating a read, then immediately shutting down the discussion / conflict around it is barely above coasting, *and* the way he shut down the discussion seemed like the opposite of trying to defuse the situation after "pissing off the wrong person"?

maybe i'm nitpicking an unimportant detail (i probably am), but is there a reason you included my response to 80 in the quote without addressing it?

I enjoy the roleplay personally. I think Rose having fun is great, so I'll save her for last. Uncrowned or Dunstral will be my primary pushes.

Yeah but are you reading it? Gun is actually playing the game - Rose is floating.

i like this observation. only after reading this did i notice myself that i was mostly skimming their posts without taking the amount of content in them too much.

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there's a small nagging voice in the back of my head telling me i'm picking up townreads just a little bit too easy, and that there's *someone* trying to pocket me.

i think after that last page, hiraki has shot up into the town-ish pile for me.

ico, talk to me about the hiraki vote? i see there's a sheep gif, but still.

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this game is a thing that i definitely didn't procrastinate on until it was 2am and i'm dead tired and
ok
anyway

uncrowned's post right above this one resonates with me very well. one might even say vibes. i've skimmed what i've missed, and bell is still in my top towns.

i have a feeling like a week ago i had great plans with my johnny vote which then fell through the floor of him just not being around, and it's probably not wise to keep the vote there as the deadline's approaching. i kinda still don't see the juice behind the dunn wagon, and i still townread uncrowned, so i wanna try something else.

VOTE: akarin

@mrsandman, i feel like you still owe me a response. unless i've made up askign you something. i think i didn't.

i'm gonna pass out now. will do my best to be around more until deadline.

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so i thought that my will to play this game will increase if i get some alcohol in my bloodstream and bad news it did not.

people that i actively do not want to murder today are bell/uncrowned/hiraki/gun/gamma. @gamma, it would be akarin > momrangel >>> bell.

i am *this* close to starting a lol-cfd against johnny. call it gut, i dunno. but don't have too much hope it would have enough time.

@dunn, why do you want bell murdered if you think he's not scum.

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so... are we planning on letting this go to no-exe or?

i'm around, still prefer akarin, but i can switch if needed. for the sake of InFoRmAtIoN would not want this to go to no-exe.

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i know, but a flip helps direct the shots better or something like that

pedit: i remember liking uncrowned's reasoning wayback when and also thinking they didn't look good in their spat with hiraki. that is about as profound as my reads go right now.

ppedit: rose slot was pretty ~meh~ to me, but i'm listening.

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VOTE: momrangal

should be exe-1.

agree on this being a complete coin toss. not as happy with this but i guess i should be listening to my own advice of "a flip is better than no flip".

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room temperature take: VOTE: johnnyfarrar

< insert disagreement about massclaiming today here >

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Ayyyy Johnny wagon

i think this is pretty much sealing my johnny scumread. it's desperately trying to give off a nonchalant "townie" vibe while contributing absolutely nothing. what do you think of the wagon on you? what's your read on me?

room temperature take: VOTE: johnnyfarrar

< insert disagreement about massclaiming today here >

why do you not want massclaim today?

i'm not for or against it, just wanna hear the thoughts process here

hiraki nicely put it in 666. other than that, there's a thought that there being only 2 kills last night is... suspiciously low. coupled with the loudest opponent of claiming being dead, i cannot help feeling paranoia that scum has packed guns for later nights, and massclaim will just point them in the direction of roses, while not actually helping our own PoE much.

@umlaut, have you read *any* of the game? got any takes for us so far?

Since we're still in RVS apparently, though

VOTE: Gamma

tl;dr on this?

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why is johnny so impossible to wagon? he got to 4 votes, and the wagon collapsed to two, while he literally did not even appear in the thread. if he's red, i wouldn't be surprised with there being at least one buddy in umlaut/dgb.

I'd be fine with voting out johnny as of right now. Not sure about Gamma, Umlaut, Akarin

what do you think about voting him, then? you're not voting anyone right now.

VOTE: momrangal

should be exe-1.

agree on this being a complete coin toss. not as happy with this but i guess i should be listening to my own advice of "a flip is better than no flip".

VOTE: Momrangal

Deadline vote more than anything else.

Okay yeah hella bad vibes on this whole transaction.
Akarin/Umlaut/?

was that first quote included there by accident? if no, i'd like you to elaborate.

I don’t trust the JF wagon AT ALL currently.

similar with this.

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Why not let mom shoot, if you think it’s a town/town coin flip?

not sure i get what you mean by "town/town coin flip". when i called them a coin flip, i meant it as "alignment could go either way". i don't like the day being wasted, an extra flip will help direct any town shots, and the slot could always be scum trying to make it to night to fire.

Tanner asks why the JF wagon collapses and proceeds to call scum everyone that is still on it.

i assume you're referring to my 810, and no. at that time, the johnny wagon was me and hiraki; i've been vocal about my hiraki townread and i know my own role PM. the people who hopped on, *then* hopped off without any reasoning are more likely scum imo.

There's a VC on the last page. JF is at four votes. Yours would be L minus one.

I still feel we should do something that explains the D1 data but I don't want to read.

what is this "something" that you want to do? flip akarin?

Can we get a claim from JF?

i believe he's currently at E-2, and is him claiming really gonna do anything?

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one person’s alignment is NOT a coin flip by the virtue of everyone having a ~75% chance of being town

and having non-them townreads and assuming they're correct maths it out to like basically close to a coinflip. you know what i mean.

Can we get a claim from JF?

i believe he's currently at E-2, and is him claiming really gonna do anything?

if i had a gun, i'd shoot this slot just for the last line alone

mhm? claims are useful in two scenarios here: if we're all massclaiming and getting conftowns out of it (i.e. if scum decides to all claim the same thing) or one other scenario which is unlikely to happen and would require further claims anyway. any other claim is basically worthless / easily fakeable. so... that is bullet-worthy why?

i had an idea of what dgb was softing but then i realized it doesn't make any sense so now i'm just confused.

I brought it up again because no one seemed to have noticed or commented.

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

what's this vote for?

also welcome replacements.

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people that i actively do not want to murder today are bell/uncrowned/hiraki/gun/gamma.

you made me open my own iso.

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okay.

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Nothing more to say?
Do you have any thoughts you haven’t shared rn?

were you expecting me to say anything more about your math lessons?
i would've shared them if they were worth sharing.

ok

i'd like a bit more elaborate response.

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I feel like you’ve been a bit terse all game Tanner, and it makes you hard to read imo. I wonder if it’s stylistic or scum holding their tongue.

if you'd like to get a better read on me, you're free to initiate a conversation with me. up to 905, you haven't done that at all.

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Tanner, do you have any reads right now other than Johnny?

What do you think of Firebringer so far?

the only two i'm genuinely confident in are town bell and town hiraki. firebringer hasn't impressed, you'll notice i didn't unvote him.

If I die tonight, never lim Titus

?

How did i pick these people? I don't have townreads and i just thought "who would make a nice scum team", and that was my list.

was there... anything more behind that list?

oh cool iconeum is still ignoring me that's fucking great.

it's been like that ever since Johny got up towards E-2/1

gee i wonder why.

i dislike the Tanner slot because of how they put your wagon at E-1 IIRC

this

literally never happened

?

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@ico, your "reasons" so far for thinking i'm scum are (1) me commenting johnny's claim wouldn't change his position (855) (which i've explained myself on, and you handwaved it away) and the way i put firebringer's slot to E-1 (1011) which literally never happened. do i have to explain why i have a problem with that?

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also, this speedwagon on dunn is making my stomach turn. he went from no votes to E-1 in what, 5 pages? 8 hours? while the other wagon was an uphill battle for the whole day?