Titus v Nancy Drew (Game Over)

[Morning Tweet]

Hello i have finished my homework good enough

i've seen ircher get run up D1 in Pooky v FL as well as Grand idea GPick and i believe hectic mentioned Ircher gets early pressure a lot once. Don't know what the context of this convo is but can confirm i think Ircher usually catches flak early on

~Bat

[Morning Tweet]

I get mafia can be frustrating when people don't see what you see, but that's also the fun of it too. It might make you rethink your reads, or at the very least allow you to get that, "I told you so moment."

Just call everyone town.

Scumflip? Awesome.
Townflip? "I told you so"

That's how you hedge

-Shmlorty

[Morning Tweet]

Sorry Nancy. Not sure if you were giving me a chance or not but the day needs to end.

Make no mistake. I am flipping town. This is a bad scenario to be in but it's possible to still win. I do not like self-voting but I will do it as nobody else wants to move on.

VOTE: 5uffering

:(

Can someone unvote please?

Why can’t we wait for Mastina and Tweetie to weigh in? Why are we fucking rushing this?

I think suffering is town but it's because of certain posts of his that i wish dont happen so in other words townreading him would be encouraging that as a tactic for town which overall will make the game less fun

I'd say he's probably more likely town than not though

this day is not helpful, I would take a town flip over drawing this out even longer, town gets weaker by the minute it feels, with the claims and the apathy starting to set in

Sorry for not being around

[Morning Tweet]

So please when I fucking flip town. Consider what I had to say. That's all.

This is very similar what Skitter said in FL vs Hectic btw.

She was wrong about everyone but Xtoxm.

Just because skitter had wrong reads in a particular game doesnt mean you should blanket disregard dying townies reads, i dont think that should really factor in at all. i suppose your point is that his reads aren't automatically better because he's town dying and that is true, but i would certainly give him the same mind i would anyone else

[Morning Tweet]

BM miselim sucks but it wasn't an inherently bad thing, we know more now than we did before. What the specific conclusions we can make from it, i dont know, but it certainly wasnt the worst elim for town

I concur that rushing is not as much of a factor anymore when the game is 180 pages long on (essentially) d1. And this is not the best stuff for reading people, at all, with it being D1 and all

[Morning Tweet]

i genuinely think suffering is playing protown regardless of alignment in this particular scenario, unless there really is another option than him dying

And ye i'd like to defer to you as well as whoever else on the basis of being more informed. i think even if i were to high effort try to sort thru this massive day one, the resulting reads would still be less accurate. Not that i really have the time to do that anyway unfortunately

[Morning Tweet]

VOTE: Italiano

[Morning Tweet]

Happy birthday Nancy,!

i might be a little late oops

also i barely read anything before subbing in except like when i was searching for the gunsmith claim lol

and i dont think i will read u guys can do that for me :D

good we have basically the same familiarity with the thread then

Just guessing though it seems to me that the gunsmith claim is crumbling, dont really get WnP's Fey read either. Think Suffering/DK is town too

maybe Toog's scum too i'd believe that over Dunn by far

uhhhhhh and like maybe WnP got spicy and claimed an inno on their partner that'd be fun; Actually was that leashed so they had to do that? Whatever then maybe its even more believable they didnt want to auto give us a scum

if there's good reasoning for REK being town disregard me but i was just going to sheep pink on that start of today lol

[Morning Tweet]

also vanilla cop shows up on GS report, would be a good way of balancing the scum GS so they get a false positive on me and think im vig/an actual useful cop LOL

yeh i could see it,

Eh i guess scum GS seems kind of bad since it's limited to searching for vigilante and even then it has a false positive. Of course, they've got a dayvig which is pretty dang good already

if they're a town gunsmith that means they have 4 guilties with 2 false guilties in a pool of 16... eh could also be workable i guess?. Maybe too unreliable to the point where it's just bad for town to have, them thinking you/Fey are scum doesn't sit great too,

let's try WnP!scum faking an inno on their partner, that'd be fun.

VOTE: Red Eye Knights
VOTE: War and Peace
VOTE: Starcrossed

[Morning Tweet]

here actually PB u have my undying support

VOTE: Red Eye Knights

[Morning Tweet]

W & P may be SvS with REK. They may also be TvT with REK but if they’re different alignments, then they would be the S in the the hypothetical SvT scenario.

Lol dont worry i know but people were unvoting WnP cause they didnt want to rush it, just putting somewhere where I think might be right

Star is also valid

[Morning Tweet]

Noraa and i had the idea among a bunch of ideas, i'm a little disappointed to hear you think i couldnt come up with it.

actually I going to assume it comes from you thinking there's a lack of town motivation rather than because you think i couldnt come up with it. Is that what you mean?

[Morning Tweet]

Idk why i assumed you thought the message was coming from someone else last night, i just figured you weren't going to not trust it while thinking it came from me. I am a little disappointed with that although the outcome is still a lot better than if i hadnt

i'll elaborate further, i wanted to turn a role with essentially the power of a "Checker" into something that locks scum into claims or forces them to kill me if they want to change it. It also comes with the benefit of giving me info and Nancy if i so choose down the line. There are no risks associated with this, also if they refuse that's fine too

I am really surprised you couldn't think of any town motivation and i really hope it's not because you think im incapable of writing that. I love this kind of thing

[Morning Tweet]

are you still there? You talked about this together for hours but couldn't figure out why i did it as town, sooo? Can you explain to me what you were thinking there, why all that stuff i explained doesn't come from me and is so out of this world to the point where nothing previous about my slot matters? It's distracting me bad

[Morning Tweet]

No, have you not been reading my posts? You seriously think there are 7 vts in this game? Either you think it’s Toog and/or one of Olaf/Sarah. Why would you think either one is a more optimal flip today then obviously one of the fake vt claims?

a pool of 7 where you know there's at least one scum... I mean, that's not bad i guess, but that is nothing like if there were a pool of 3 where u know one is scum.

I'm not sure how this is related to what i was saying and really im not well read up enough to know. all i was saying was that im aware REK can't be scum if WnP is town

[Morning Tweet]

Yeah but that'd be a town gunsmith with 2 false guilties and a false inno at that point, has as many false results as real results. I guess if town is overloaded with power and you want them to have basically an insane cop but i thought that sounded a bit too unfun

[Morning Tweet]

Idk I guess versus games are janky, at least the last one was. Either way i wouldnt kill REK before War but i felt like voting them cause ppl were wanting to "not rush" WnP at the time

Uhh how this ties into the VT stuff, I don't know. Having a vanilla cop + compulsive vanillaizer in a game that already has a ton of VTs is sort of a weird idea, I would think you'd just have a town of weak power across the board so there's room for people to be vanillaized without it being stupid i guess. having a ton of VTs already in seems weird. Either way i dont know if i'd shoot into the VTs purposefully but obviously not my call and i didnt intend to make that

[Morning Tweet]

I don't think thats something you do as town tweetie :(

You talked about it for hours apparently, but is that it now?

Why am I incapable of turning a fairly useless role into something at least better? i dont understand what's wrong with my idea or more importantly why you think I wouldn't... either come up with it or actually do it idk which.

Maybe as scum I stop to think i wouldnt get trusted but that didnt really cross my mind too much. I thought refusal was possible which in of itself was interesting to me, but thinking I'm scum rolefishing? How do you think on it for hours and come to that conclusion? You literally couldn't think of why i would do it as town, no reason at all

[Morning Tweet]

you can guilty 3/4 of the scum team that would be just like a GF with 2 millers.

you're right, i guess it's just that 2/5 of the guilties you get are bad plus you might fool yourself into a scum being town on top of that, just seems unreasonable for the gunsmith to have to think about

But i mean when you do hit you're locking scum into that "has a gun category" so i suppose it's not the worst yeah

against tho, the vanillizer can hit scum and remove THEIR power - its a fairly swingy role so weak PRs with that in the game across the board sounds reasonable.

Ya i was thinking having town power consolidated in a few people would be stupid with that. Also my role kinda supports it too

[Morning Tweet]

By the way Noraa and I went with several different ideas, we were going to message Pyro (or someone we felt was town but had reasonable doubts or could at least show reasonable doubts for), have him pretend like he didn't receive the message, claim we have an inno on them via Disloyal

Then the next night send a message like "lalalala" or another obvious 'throwaway' to someone and ask them in an offhand comment "Btw did you receive the message?" and if they say no then it'd be pretty funny

i thought one particularly exciting thing was that there was no character limit meaning i was free to write something as complicated as I like. Usually i figure you gotta limit the message wordcount in order to prevent exactly what i just did -- devising something

and i did end up going with that since there was really no backfiring, it was fairly simple, and I knew how to do it. For what it was worth i did enjoy making it and i have more ideas too. You mentioned that i'm too demotivated to do such a thing, and maybe it's fair that i am demotivated as shit so i thought maybe that's a reasonable thing you could suspect me for. But that, that was fun to do.

You failing to come up with any ideas for why town!Morning creates the message after """hours""" of conversing about it combined with how you already had me as LOCKTOWN is ridiculous to me and is why im so rustled up right now. I literally just made mailman into a weak investigative where the recipient has to accept the investigation

Losing my god damned mind over nothing, it's not your fault, it's not your fault though

[Morning Tweet]

Then the next night send a message like "lalalala" or another obvious 'throwaway' to someone and ask them in an offhand comment "Btw did you receive the message?" and if they say no then it'd be pretty funny

yea i realize they stand a good chance of seeing through this gambit, maybe could delay it a few nights or pretend to send more townie messages in between (but actually not visit) to give it credibility, i dont exactly remember the details

[Morning Tweet]

...Starcrossed, you talked about the message for hours but you’re not... talking much about the game here at all?

Uh. Why doesn’t that effort show here...?

cause it was a banger of a message. Not really, but it was pretty substantial so you'd need to think carefully about how to approach it

definitely have to think about it way more as scum though. Gotta come up with a way to dodge answering, at least that's what I'm hoping. Having sudden paranoia that I'm incapable of writing it and it's part of Titus' master plan to get the role of the most important threat to scum, STARCROSSED, well... i guess that's one way. Nevermind checking someone in PoE, i'm actually fishing for their role

Uhm, the only part that gives me pause is this i guess

Like I don't even understand why you would even send this message, much less put that much work into writing out something this long when you feel very detached and not very into this game at all.

If they take it like part of the game then yeah it doesnt make sense for me to have the motivation to put the effort into it. Think of it as me helping the game in a very tiny way doing something that doesnt really require getting deep into it. It was not hard for me to do cause i actually love this sort of thing. I can forgive them for not figuring that out, but...

VOTE: morning

@morning: if I asked you “why would you ask me to do that?”, can you answer?

~mistuha

@Tweetie

I'm quite sad honestly

I've read your message and talked about it with Kanna for hours last night and there's just no way it comes from you.

sorry it just doesn't

Can you explain what your motivation was for sending this message to us?

How

How

How could they not figure out my motivation or even a POSSIBLE motivation, after hours, and then come into today with nothing better than "We don't think you'd do this (as town specifically)"

Nevermind how the demotivation argument would apply to scum too. Unless they think Titus actually wrote the whole damn thing for me, which they probably do so I guess that doesnt matter. I would love to hear exactly why Titus feels the need to use me to perform an elaborate rolefish on Starcrossed of all slots and maybe they do have good reasoning and im flipping out for nothing and it's understandable but so far i havent gotten it so yeah you know

[Morning Tweet]

ITT: I have a meltdown over what is honestly going to be completely inconsequential shit

I am seriously sorry for wasting thread space on this, oh my god

[Morning Tweet]

FYI you guys have never explained what the message actually contains

A system that allows Starcrossed to claim their role to me without any way for anyone other than me to know both what they claimed and the fact that they claimed. Scratch out the second part now, but yeah.

It would also be impossible for my targets on subsequent nights to find their role or the fact they claimed using it

It was fairly long-winded on my part, I wouldn't say it was suuuper hard to come up with though. While not as good as actually getting their role, it locks a player into a claim for as long as I'm alive which can't hurt town players, it can only possibly hurt scum ones. They also might deny which I thought would be fun (i didnt realize that they'd deny on the basis of not trusting me though). Also I could feed info into Nancy

The only issue with it is that you have to trust me. Which, apparently, Starcrossed did but now no longer does

[Morning Tweet]

I would love to hear exactly why Titus feels the need to use me to perform an elaborate rolefish on Starcrossed of all slots and maybe they do have good reasoning and im flipping out for nothing and it's understandable but so far i havent gotten it so yeah you know

I think this is a little disingenuous given that your participation in this game and your thread presence is going high as a kite thanks to said message. What I mean is, the question answers itself: asking "why would Titus do this" is exactly why Titus would do it.

Star accused me of rolefishing them, so it's because Titus wanted their role

I would be pretty surprised if Titus has the foresight to think asking me to do (or doing this for me) would get me back into the game. I'm not even sure it does considering this is all probably not helpful

In Starcrossed's response, i didn't even write the message, they are saying Titus did.

Idk how to respond, i dont think bringing me into the game is a valid thing that Titus or Starcrossed considered that making me rolefish would do

[Morning Tweet]

I appreciate it PB, i needed more

So thank you

I can forgive Star for not thinking I would write a message like that because I doubt they could really have known i really enjoy.. really contrived hidden message type stuff. And it seems like i would be unable to write it due to horrible motivation. I saw it as something i could do that wouldnt require motivation, but it's not fair to expect anyone to see that i know

[Morning Tweet]

I appreciate it PB, i needed more

So thank you

this sort of sounds sarcastic that's not what i meant, I mean i needed something to like make me calm down over it

[Morning Tweet]

You better believe I wrote that, mate

I guess it's pretty formal. I threw on the last sentence cause I was originally sending it to REK before I realized that they were a bad target since they were already being investigated. If you had already claimed i legitimately wouldnt have known cause i did not bother to check

Thank god you're here to explain it to me now

You have this way too friendly image of me, like the past 78 times you falsely scumread me it's for not being happy. But I turned the emotes and happy up to 10 in Silent Star Royalty and u TR me there.

I am going through mood swings like mad and i cant help it. And the cute japanese emoticon stuff -- it's not how I am in real life, at all. It's more.. how I'd like to be rather than how I actually am, maybe. But i can't keep it up when something bothering me in real life or in the game

So your point that it's dry and unfun is probably true

Your point that it makes it not me, well, I guess you're going to be set up for disappointment now. That's how i am, or at least how I was feeling when I wrote the message. I prefer to think of it as more of a formal business type deal than dry, but yeah i guess

[Morning Tweet]

Gonna have to concur with PB, I was keeping it mysterious. I did consider explaining it more but then if I sent it to scum then why am i showing them my hand when town should just be trusting me

Especially the sending it to Nancy part. Imagine if I got some claims, sent em to nancy, died, and scum fucked up and changed a claim. I guess it was unlikely but still i didnt think it necessary

CLEARLY town doesnt trust me though and I was wrong to think so

[Morning Tweet]

Why was a claim that you would only know your first choice? Aren't there other ways to enjoy a hidden message type stuff?

Not really sure what kind of secret messaging i could get going other than forcing a crumb. It definitely made sense when i assumed people would trust me

This was thought of around back when Noraa was playing and we were pseudo confirm town. I came up with it of course for the main part but i was thinking of maybe incorporating the disloyal bit into it too, I felt like Noraa wasn't super interested in the cryptography as compared to the reaction test disloyal type thing

I dont know, I'm sure there was something better given enough time, don't know what

Can you give me an example of a game where you use such type of cryptography in a town setting? It really doesn't feel like something you came up with to me >_>

In a mafia game, hm... I don't think so. The closest is this mafia game idea I had where the game was exclusively played through radios that were prone to errors and maybe cryptography could play into it where people needed to send things to each other that were hidden between lines

I also considered a setup where all cryptography was allowed

The main place where i was always obsessed with it was a TF2 trading website where you could solve puzzles for stuff. Oh, and geocaching mystery caches

[Morning Tweet]

MT not even bothering to respond to my obvious hard FOS on them is worrying.

I think ur town and i believe you

Did I miss something about it

Gonna have to concur with PB, I was keeping it mysterious. I did consider explaining it more but then if I sent it to scum then why am i showing them my hand when town should just be trusting me

Especially the sending it to Nancy part. Imagine if I got some claims, sent em to nancy, died, and scum fucked up and changed a claim. I guess it was unlikely but still i didnt think it necessary

CLEARLY town doesnt trust me though and I was wrong to think so

I don't think Nancy is targetable with night actions, as a stump

The stumps were targetable in the last game I think. Also, in a regular game of mafia, a stump is a player who counts as dead but is still a player, right? In Forest Fire stumps were still very much part of the game and targetable with night actions, as they are in the last versus game

Pedit: I guess that part doesn't work then. Sigh

[Morning Tweet]

I get the feeling MT is scum here myself for ~reasons~ and they're in my PoE rn

VOTE: Morning Tweet
if we arent finding the scum within the 2 PR lets get this

These?

[Morning Tweet]

http://rumkin.com/tools/cipher/
https://www.boxentriq.com/code-breaking ... ion-cipher

Couple of my favourites, especially rumkin I used constantly. The other one is just lazy. I'm not like actually well learned in this i just found it interesting because of overlap with other things i enjoy doing

It's probably worth noting I wasn't asking Star to do *actual* cryptography nor was i using actual cryptography, that should be against the rules. It was just specific combinations of regular words where I'd be the only one to know to look for them, so a one way crumb

me rn:

is this at me not actually having cute anime persona IRL or something else

[Morning Tweet]

The other one is just lazy.

just for when I'm feeling lazy*

[Morning Tweet]

I'm definitely obvious town to you olaf but Pooky has a track record of generally not reading me well so I can kind of believe it

especially considering the lack of motivation stuff and I can feasibly see them thinking i dont know jack about hidden crumbing stuff i guess

What made me particularly confused is how they couldn't think of any town motivation for me but whatever

i assume he was apologizing for thinking I didn't write the message but I suppose even then he still thinks im scum

[Morning Tweet]

This is a similar level of engagement to the amount they had in the last versus game, i was thinking anyway

[Morning Tweet]

I have to think more about Tweetie.

I would've expected an angrier response tbh from Town!tweet since I mis-read her as scum like the last two times we were T/T >_<

Oh no dont get me wrong I put off my classwork for 2 whole hours cause I got angry as shit but not really at you specifically just a lot of things adding up

I generally think that getting upset at response to suspicions is bad play since it just makes the game unfun and also if you're scum u have no choice but to force the read and then it's just *really* not fun

but i was getting pissed off esp when it was combined with my fun cryptography being kinda wasted yeah. Don't townread anger from me though if possible (or don't tell me), I don't want that to be something i feel encouraged to do if I can help it at all

[Morning Tweet]

This is a similar level of engagement to the amount they had in the last versus game, i was thinking anyway

wait, seriously?
pooky seemed hyper engaged and memey in the last one at least for the first half

Oh i forget the early stages of that game, you're probably right.

[Morning Tweet]

angry might be the wrong word

how about "peeved" "annoyed" "exasperated" "disbelief pooky is this dumb"

did i not bring up ur like 0/4 or 0/5 record reading me enough

Let's see

Charas - scumread
Royalty - townread
FL v Hectic - scumread
here - scumread

those are the only ones i can rememberrrr i dont remember what you read me as in pooky v. FL you might have gotten me right there and thats why i dont remember it

I was also holding out hope you were scum earlier although eehh i am not really sure anymore. You know, considering I used my investigate ability on you last night

[Morning Tweet]

I think i confused "peeved" with "petty"

[Morning Tweet]

i'm not actually sure morning is scum btw, i wanted to pressure so i think i got what i wanted.

the gist of it was the message was super formal and pooky and i were wondering if it was constructed with titus and co. also asking us to roleclaim like that made us feel queasy. like, "why should we trust you?" that kind of thing. no offence ofc

i am also sorry if we annoyed you, morning

~mitsuha

You didn't i was losing my mind over other stuff and i let it trickle into the game there so i should be sorry instead really

Also I always fall for people faking confidence on me being scum, so stupid lol

I assume the "talked over it for hours" thing was an exaggeration probably, gah

[Morning Tweet]

FYI you guys have never explained what the message actually contains

A system that allows Starcrossed to claim their role to me without any way for anyone other than me to know both what they claimed and the fact that they claimed. Scratch out the second part now, but yeah.

It would also be impossible for my targets on subsequent nights to find their role or the fact they claimed using it

It was fairly long-winded on my part, I wouldn't say it was suuuper hard to come up with though. While not as good as actually getting their role, it locks a player into a claim for as long as I'm alive which can't hurt town players, it can only possibly hurt scum ones. They also might deny which I thought would be fun (i didnt realize that they'd deny on the basis of not trusting me though). Also I could feed info into Nancy

The only issue with it is that you have to trust me. Which, apparently, Starcrossed did but now no longer does

for the record, there's like 50 different pairings of "keyword or letter" to role/modifier and I'm supposed to use this "key" to crumb my role to tweetie but there's no mention of motivation or why she wants me to send this to her.

[Morning Tweet]

No, have you not been reading my posts? You seriously think there are 7 vts in this game? Either you think it’s Toog and/or one of Olaf/Sarah. Why would you think either one is a more optimal flip today then obviously one of the fake vt claims?

a pool of 7 where you know there's at least one scum... I mean, that's not bad i guess, but that is nothing like if there were a pool of 3 where u know one is scum.

I'm not sure how this is related to what i was saying and really im not well read up enough to know. all i was saying was that im aware REK can't be scum if WnP is town

Then why did you vote REK?

Lol dont worry i know but people were unvoting WnP cause they didnt want to rush it, just putting somewhere where I think might be right

My vote's on both WnP and REK, i'll retract the Starcrossed one

[Morning Tweet]

I have exactly 0 strength to add anything new to what ive said

i'll elaborate further, i wanted to turn a role with essentially the power of a "Checker" into something that locks scum into claims or forces them to kill me if they want to change it. It also comes with the benefit of giving me info and Nancy if i so choose down the line. There are no risks associated with this, also if they refuse that's fine too

I am really surprised you couldn't think of any town motivation and i really hope it's not because you think im incapable of writing that. I love this kind of thing

[Morning Tweet]

Happy birthday Nancy,!

i might be a little late oops

also i barely read anything before subbing in except like when i was searching for the gunsmith claim lol

and i dont think i will read u guys can do that for me :D

good we have basically the same familiarity with the thread then

Just guessing though it seems to me that the gunsmith claim is crumbling, dont really get WnP's Fey read either. Think Suffering/DK is town too

maybe Toog's scum too i'd believe that over Dunn by far

uhhhhhh and like maybe WnP got spicy and claimed an inno on their partner that'd be fun; Actually was that leashed so they had to do that? Whatever then maybe its even more believable they didnt want to auto give us a scum

if there's good reasoning for REK being town disregard me but i was just going to sheep pink on that start of today lol

comma in the first line was my crumb

[Morning Tweet]

Are either you or Starcrossed going to paraphrase this message for me or what?

first line is telling me the message is from Tweetie and saying that she will verify by using incorrect punctuation in her first post of the day

second line is asking me to signal back to her with the codeword bat

third line is telling me to crumb my role to her

she lists out like 25 words and their matching roles

and then 25 letters and their matching modifiers

she then tells me not to worry about it being spotted by anyone else and then apologizes for the msg if I had already role claimed previously

like it seems like a lot of effort to make this giant message without even bothering to read my ISO to see if I had already roleclaimed.

like that's kinda weird :/

lol i like, skimmed it sort of. I specifically didn't choose WnP and REK cause i knew abt them and i didnt think you claimed

I can put effort into the cryptography but not so much with the mafia, it was just something fun to do

[Morning Tweet]

she then tells me not to worry about it being spotted by anyone else and then apologizes for the msg if I had already role claimed previously

Hey no I didn't apologize though i was like "ur not allowed to call me stupid if i fucked up"

[Morning Tweet]

I can put effort into the cryptography but not so much with the mafia, it was just something fun to do

ok but you see why I would be suspicious right?

I opened up this message, then opened up your iso from after noraa repped out.

and this message literally has like more words than your entire 6 post ISO.

so the dissonance between your interest in like this secret 007 message vs your actual interest in the game is really jarring.

Creating that had fairly little to do with the game, it was for funsies

It was better than just sending a pointless message (or so I thought). Actually i think overall getting people talking is probably good even if it caused me some grief. So i figured if i cant play the game i can at least do something that will help a little bit potentially

Lets say I guess i had more fun writing that message than i have had collectively throughout the course of this game so far

@ the other post, I was going to pick REK -- slashed that out. I thought about Morty and Rick, WnP.. uh... dont know who else. I thought Dunn was town and clidd is a VT claim so its pointless, same with TOog. I thought olaf town, DK/Suffering town, PB town, Fey town, i thought Sherlock was town

I physically wrote Morty and Rick, WnP, and REK all out so those were my closest until I ended on you. I do not remember why i thought better on Morty and Rick but i switched it to you ultimately. Who exactly do you expect town!Morning to send a pseudo investigation at? I'm a bit lost why you think you're a particularly special pick, I probably cross out at least 75% of the list as choices

[Morning Tweet]

angry might be the wrong word

how about "peeved" "annoyed" "exasperated" "disbelief pooky is this dumb"

did i not bring up ur like 0/4 or 0/5 record reading me enough

Let's see

Charas - scumread
Royalty - townread
FL v Hectic - scumread
here - scumread

those are the only ones i can rememberrrr i dont remember what you read me as in pooky v. FL you might have gotten me right there and thats why i dont remember it

I was also holding out hope you were scum earlier although eehh i am not really sure anymore. You know, considering I used my investigate ability on you last night

What is your investigative ability?

UNVOTE:

visit someone and ask them to privately claim their role to me. they either do it or decline

...AKA mailman with a bunch of extra steps for a small extra investigative ability

[Morning Tweet]

What about what i did was anti-town

[Morning Tweet]

What about what i did was anti-town

Why does town rolefish without reciprocating?

Reciprocating what? My own role? it's self-evident that im a mailbat and i crumbed it to they would it know it was really me at start of day

And again, there are no risks because it is impossible for anyone but me to know their roleclaim and no one but me would know that they crumbed at all, either

I have exactly 0 strength to add anything new to what ive said

i'll elaborate further, i wanted to turn a role with essentially the power of a "Checker" into something that locks scum into claims or forces them to kill me if they want to change it. It also comes with the benefit of giving me info and Nancy if i so choose down the line. There are no risks associated with this, also if they refuse that's fine too

I am really surprised you couldn't think of any town motivation and i really hope it's not because you think im incapable of writing that. I love this kind of thing

Yeah if I'm scum it'd help scum but that doesn't make the role inherently anti-town. Rolecops aren't inherently anti-town, they are just more powerful for scum but they are helpful to both alignments. I'm a lot weaker than a role cop but you get the gyst

Also I assumed i was able to message you but from others' reactions it seems I was wrong. Still could feed information to somebody else towny or an outted mason down the line if I wished though

[Morning Tweet]

im just like super surprised no one has tried to call me scum - maybe something happend d1 or d2 that is the case cuz i havent really reread but the gamestate feels weird.

i think the dead scum pushed your slot into the dirt around the end of last day or at least definitely tried to

also i think suffering's blow up at one point was a lot less likely to be from scum

[Morning Tweet]

How would Starcrossed claiming help you parse them? And if scum, wouldn’t you have expected them to fakeclaim something rather than call you out?

However Olaf looks worse here from their reaction but I don’t know. I’m extremely torn on your slot because I can also see how you could also be town and I had no doubts pretty much literally before this whole rolefish thing came about.

It's not to parse, it's to force an early role claim from a slot i thought was possibly scum who hadn't claimed yet. That way they can't wait until a mass claim and tailor their claim to fit within setup balance (or do any kind of sudden fakeclaim gambits like faking cop guilty etc). Essentially, if they're scum, it hurts them a small amount, and if they're town it lets us coordinate a little better

it also just makes content out of what was nothing if they refuse to do so which is nice

It's not a lot but my role doesnt have power beyond "Announcing Checker" so i wanted to do something fun with it

Oh also, Olaf could be scum, not leaning that but he's good and i havent been reading so sure possibly. Uh his reaction to me is not relevant at all though, Olaf knows all of my tells and i definitely went out of my scumrange today (and obviously there's still the issue of Noraa's D1). I'd be way more concerned if he didn't know i was town lol

Oh I forgot the second question. Yeah i expect them to fakeclaim as scum, the point is that they have to fakeclaim now rather than down the line. Then we might have a better chance to catch them off of a rushed fakeclaim

[Morning Tweet]

Seems like Sherlock was using Noraa's hard SR on clidd as a partial excuse to vote him. Noraa was quite persistent about that scumread if i remember right.

I don't think Sherlock was thinking about Noraa's *entire* PoE when he said that. i doubt it, would be open to being convinced on that I guess but i dont think Noraa's D2 PoE is something scum would play around. Like why?

Is there scum in Noraa's PoE, though? probably. I like REK for scum currently, hinging on WnP!scum obviously. If that's wrong I'd guess Toog. Don't think Starcrossed/Pyro are scum -- Clidd I doubt as well also there's probably more reasoning for clidd i havent seen or forgot

[Morning Tweet]

VOTE: War and Peace

[Morning Tweet]

so whats the reasoning for WnP being town

[Morning Tweet]

she isn't very unsolvey either -- i would say she's not much of anything this game personally

if being solvey is even a towntell for her anyway

[Morning Tweet]

why is it that noraa is treated as confirm town simultaneously with me being treated as a toss-up hahaha

exactly!

the lack of impact and footprint makes me worried :(

Tweetie what's wrong? :(

Nothing to worry about really pooky, i appreciate it though.

I don't know where you're getting the idea that town tweet leaves an impact from, certainly not from any game ive played with you

[Morning Tweet]

I don't know where you're getting the idea that town tweet leaves an impact from, certainly not from any game ive played with you

I would say as scum you leave much less of a footprint/impact on the game than as town.

I would say you're wrong, it's fairly random depending on my motivation

the games where i left the most "impact" (note this still isn't much) that i can think of.. hmm

Mini 2132 (scum)
Jigsaw's Revenge (town and technically i dont know if this counts cause we still lost as i didnt really convince many people not nearly fast enough)
Why gun (town and I think this was mostly just scum being PoE guesses so eh it wasn't important)

Yeah the strongest game i can think of that i had the most influence over was a scum game. Generally though I dont think i control games ever, I still border on a non-factor

I can understand maybe where you get this impression from but in reality I am just falling into not being into the game at all recently

[Morning Tweet]

isn't town tweet an absolute monster which can toxic 1v7 and come out victorious?
i heard she once toxic 1v2ed battle mage and ABR simultaneously which is basically a 1v10 mentally speaking

It felt more like a 1v20 minimum

I lost though

[Morning Tweet]

Haha no i love playing with BM

In that game in particular he and ABR were locked in a death battle where I spent the entirety of the game arguing with the two of them (since I felt they were TvT), was very frustrating

I ran out of time to convince people and we lost

[Morning Tweet]

i thought kanna's posts this game didn't come across as "forced into making content" as she seems like as scum sometimes

Also after a while I realized why the nighttime message seemed so out of place so yeah obviously that doesnt matter to me now

I hadn't noticed large differences between this game and the last versus game (for pooky), both haven't been super fun so there's less fun to be had really

Kanna felt like actually trying to solve me (With the overblown SR on me -> reevaluating). Pooky not so much, but then again pooky has a particular way of reading me and he has stuck to it beautifully

[Morning Tweet]

Xtoxm claimed "Disloyal" as part of his fakeclaim in the last versus game which really should have pinged harder there than it did -- obviously if he were really a town "Even/Odd Disloyal/Loyal Messenger" he'd want to hide that bit for maximum usefulness

same thing for Kid, I don't really see what their motivations are in doing that. But I suppse you let that sit for now

I don't like the idea of scum doctor with GS + vanilla cop + vig. If we kill WnP and they're town I'm fine with REK being town in all likelihood. That being said i still want to elim War, even if it's a miselim it's helpful then

I asked why WnP was town earlier because I was assuming Nancy is soft vetoing the wagon and i was curious if we could start a conversation about that

[Morning Tweet]

Cool, Tweetie’s town. Who do you want dead today?

War

[Morning Tweet]

u forgot messenggerrrr

[Morning Tweet]

i have a knack for rolling real keepers in the role department dont i. I don't think i've ever experienced having a real power even once

pooky has a particular way of reading me and he has stuck to it beautifully

i meant like

You usually seem to judge my alignment based on parts of my character like friendliness, happiness, excitement, and the like

but the issue is i don't think i'm happier as either alignment -- I'm less stressed as town and more stressed as scum and that is always going to be the largest distinction. If you think scum!me would ever completely forget to even think about the possibility of that message i sent being interpreted as scummy, then you're missing a huge tell. I genuinely didn't see that coming ever.

..

Your idea of my town play is my idea of how i want to play and would rather be known for than this kind of play, honestly. But i can't always keep it up. I really like playing in that cheerful and excited way, and when you scumread me it kind of feels like you miss me playing that way too. it's sort of like you want to believe it's because of some factor in the game, and not because i actually am being more.. dry and less happy sounding. I feel like Kanna went through a similar period where she noticed a distinction in me not sounding like myself and attributed it to possibly being related to my alignment. Don't know if she's done that in quite a while though

Whereas with you it seems like you're persistently holding onto this kinda play from me being "off" and not how I am usually, even when i prove that wrong by doing it time and time again. it just makes me feel like you want that other me to be the baseline -- and I do too, honestly

I don't know, something about it prompted me to describe it as "beautifully" and i didn't mean that as an insult, this probably isn't right at all but it has been how i've been interpreting it

[Morning Tweet]

im pretty sure i've been voting and/or spiritually voting war and peace since like, day start

I think I just miss you.

(>︹<)

I'm sorry mate

[Morning Tweet]

Oh sorry REK

I guess that makes sense though

[Morning Tweet]

VOTE: Toog

[Morning Tweet]

Nancy I'm thinking mass claim today. I can start

Btw, @Tweetie, who did you message last night? Check anyone?

It isn't helpful for me to reveal at the moment but my message was successful

KidAmn is town for Gamma being out of his scumrange I'm pretty sure.

i wil sheep this from now on as ive seen it mentioned many times. Although I was previously assuming Kid's role was necessary for town balance

Love the odd doctor even rolestopper combo (if real)

Also yesterday toogeloo was all "nancy, i'll vote with you" all day but then didn't even vote at the end

lol

[Morning Tweet]

You're having vigs and masons claim..?

[Morning Tweet]

Oh when I said it's not helpful i really meant it

[Morning Tweet]

Ah true

[Morning Tweet]

Yup

[Morning Tweet]

Nancy did any of your cute little mason-servants post a claims list in the PT you can give me? I don't remember anyone's claims and it's scary out here.

Dunnstral - Odd-night Doctor
Kidamn - Even-night Rolestopper
Fey - 1-shot night skipper
DKKoba - Vanilla Cop

Pink Ball/Sarah/Clidd/Toogeloo/Olaf/Starcrossed/Morning Tweet - VT, or vig, or mason

how come everybody forgets my completely relevant powerrrr

Why did scum redirect Koba what was the point of that. Or is bus driver still a possibility I guess

Somewhere in my heart of hearts I want MT to be scum so my early paranoia can be right.

no

Spoiler:

So if we assume 3 pr and 1 vanilla scum, and that 1 pr is driver, that just means Tweetie is town

So if we assume 3 pr and 1 vanilla scum, and that 1 pr is driver, that just means Tweetie is town

Tweetie's been town, I think, UNFORTUNATELY for my gut.

I love assumptions.

bad titus

man bus driver even switching up my words, fucked up :(

hahahaha

I see, Koba targeted REK and got a result on Toog. I thought it was standard for investigatives to have the name of the person they target for real show up in PMs, apparently that differs from mod to mod i guess..? But this is actually how i would have thought to mod it

[Morning Tweet]

we have the messenger and vanilla cop target at night and see if we can catch any more redirects

Assume that bus driver can't target themself

Oh is that my purpose i wonder, to up the odds the bus driver is caught?

mech conf scum is better than shooting in the dark, also driver would likely not be able to target themselves, so rolestopper can totally wifom.

Ye i agree no point in chancing to take out the more powerful mafia when we can just leave them as last maf standing

Also they probably can't multitask anyway so wouldn't they just become useless anyway

If there's an optimal target (or target pool) for me to catch out the bus driver just let me know cause a lot of that is going over my head

[Morning Tweet]

toog that plan you summarized both gives you bulletproof and makes the kill on REK a strongman

-Despite my clear as being a VANILLA, I must be Mafia Vanilla.

I think you're getting vanilla cop mixed up with neapolitan

[Morning Tweet]

That was somewhat unfortunate for discussion ig, but im unsure if that was an avoidable elimination really

that kill should confirm what we already thought, a bus driver claimed VT. I guess that's agiven though

[Morning Tweet]

Damn, i like everyone in this game too.

- with how scumread toog was, i could see him getting copped. and koba is a vanilla cop, right, so maybe scum didn't expect them to be told who they copped and wanted to fake guilty him by implying he lied about his vanilla

Hm... so it's possible the whole scumteam was under the impression that DKKoba wouldn't receive the next of who they investigated.

Strange, my result when I was a vanilla cop variant 2 versus games ago was "Your target is vanilla"

I could see why Alisae would specify the name if a bus driver exists but it's still weird

?

Nah, it was probably as simple as "direct the kill at person who will never be protected so the kill is a strongman" and nothing more. Since obviously they knew REK was a mason, it does make sense to use the ability in such a way already. If i were motivated to strongman a mason, i'd just use the most unprotectable player in the game. It is possible scum were 1000 IQing it in order to get both the strongman and the potential fake guilty on Toog, but i feel Toog was a pretty solid choice even without the second part so hard to tell

my first thought with dunn's role was that it reminded me of the dichotomy with sherlock's day vig and the night vig, and exactly one was scum. but i suppose that's for another time

Hm, didn't think of it that way -- although I'm more thinking of the Sherlock dayvig to Fey's nightskip dichotomy.

I am under the impression that Gamma (Kid) spewed himself town, but i've got to ask, why do you claim the "even-night" modifier up front ever there? Hm, I see Gamma's ISO now, willing to accept that's just a mechanical misplay and/or maybe just wanting to claim full role so power is more clear i guess? I seriously doubt he has those interactions w/ nancy as scum, i certainly couldn't do that except as town myself

So we've got myself, Fey, and Gamma/Kidd as town at the minimum (Bear with me for catching up on what is prolly the basics that everyone else knows)

[Morning Tweet]

with my incomplete picture of the game it seems like Star, Pyro, and Dunn are more likely town than Sara, Pink Ball, Clidd

it also seems interesting to me that both clidd and Pink Ball are suspecting Sara pretty hard

Hmph

it's still too much to lay out all of my thoughts in writing, but i'm sure we'll get there. I think in particular there shouldn't be scum within {Fey, Kid, Star} ever and I was playing around with adding Dunn but never quite got there because of lingering power concerns with Star's role i guess ?? But I think the bolded here strikes me as town so im nearing there

I'm an odd-night doctor

Night 1 was skipped

Night 3 I was on Starcrossed

I didn't get any kind of notification that I was redirected

Because of my role I thought that Kidamn's claim was very believable (it was claimed before the rolecop could do anything, too)

I argued against mafia having a doctor, but my own role and the vanilla cop claim made me think the gunsmith claim was more believable as well

[Morning Tweet]

If I'm forgetting something mechanical that makes someone more likely to be town or not, don't forget to remind me, by the way.

Fey has never played like this as scum + if she is scum, that means they both possess the nightskipper and the dayvig (plus the bus driver and the role cop), which would be insanity.

@morning where did you get the impression that I'm suspecting Sarah pretty hard?

it's like one of your three posts on the previous day, and the longest and most substancial one

Caught up.

Sarah's "you think I'm scum instead of town with good reads? Are you actually serious right now?" feels like she doesn't understand how her play has been very underwhelming. Having good(ish) reads is not enough and it's even bad if your thread presence is not what it should be. I also think and have thought since I repped in that the whole "Nancy we're V I B I N G" thing was a pocket attempt and Sarah probably thought that following consensus and pocketing Nancy was enough.

That being said, I think it's weird that the first thing we do today is check who was bussing WP instead of looking who was outside the wagon. WP's wagon stagnated. Since D1 it has been stagnating. Scum didn't want to get rid of that slot, and there was still a chance to derail the wagon.

I don't know where I want to go. I have far too many ideas right now, none of them convinces me. I still have this feeling that Battle Mage's wagon was formed because of his scumread on Pyro. Anyway, I'm not concerned. Even if the consensus scumreads concern me, the consensus townreads are better. People realizing that Dunn is town is good.

I dont think i meant consistently throughout the game, i meant more recently on the previous day -- both you and clidd suspected her there. while you still have kid and her both in consideration, clidd seems more certain on just sara

so many seem to think Kid/Gamma is possible..

Going off the assumption that Kid and Dunn aren't scum together, how did Gamma know to claim even-night to mesh with Dunn's role? Also, i feel like you can't very well fakeclaim rolestopper on d1(2) without expecting it to get tested at some point down the line, so.. surely Gamma/Kid has some ability to rolestop? Bus driving wouldn't accomplish the same thing, i don't think. And if Gamma/Kid does have the ability to rolestop, then the scumteam is ridiculous again

[Morning Tweet]

Really wish Star had crumbed their role to me right about now

[Morning Tweet]

hi pooks

[Morning Tweet]

Targetted olaf yesterday, message succeeded. Today is a work in progress, more info on that later

[Morning Tweet]

You said "seems interesting that both clidd and Pink Ball are suspecting Sara pretty hard". So for one, I'm not suspecting Sara pretty hard, and I if I did, I don't think it would be 'interesting'.

Sorry for bad wording or understanding then. i'm getting at how both you and clidd were gearing to vote Sara after Toog (although yes you have mentioned olaf and kid). I think it's interesting if I consider kid/dunn/star/olaf town and have a remaining pool of around pink/clidd/sara with mayybe more suspicion on sara

[Morning Tweet]

Vanilla Cop (Kinda bad)
Messenger (basically useless)
1-shot nightskipper (only exists to counteract 1-shot dayvig scum)
vanillaizer compulsive (literally helping scum at worst, doesnt do too much at best)

Even-Night Rolestopper (gated protective)
Odd-Night Doctor (gated protective)

vs.

Full Rolecop scum
Busdriver of sorts
1-shot fucking dayvig

If we are missing one of those protectives aren't we mostly working with unhelpful/negative utilty versus one of the strongest PR lineups on a scumteam ive ever seen?

Additionally if Kid is scum, doesn't it seem like they would have to be a scum rolestopper considering they claimed it on the first day and rolestopper is something we can verify?

[Morning Tweet]

Targetted olaf yesterday, message succeeded. Today is a work in progress, more info on that later

*flops ears*

Kanna says she put a present in 5653 for you.

this made my night ty

I think bottom line also with Kid, i don't understand how they would know to claim Even-Night to corroborate with Dunn's role (in Kid!Scum Dunn!town situation). Unless they are really Even-Night rolestopper which again just like.. can we give really give scum a rolecop + busdriver + dayvig + rolestopper with the only protective in existence being odd-night doctor?

pedit: It's an impossibility for the VT claims to all be true i believe

I agree the even night thing has to have not been faked yea

[Morning Tweet]

Are there arguments for clidd being town outside of Sherlock's push on him? Cause i do find it plausible that it was a gambit where clidd either doesnt end up dying :OR: it gives 1-shot dayvig deepwolf sherlock credibility at worst.

And clidd could very well be the goon

The even night part was obviously 100% true regardless of KidAmn’s actual alignment.

Shouldn't the rolestopper part also be true since rolestopper is a confirmable role? if fake, we were/are going to test it out and discover them for the lie down the line

[Morning Tweet]

Yeah last night's message will be elaborated on today

[Morning Tweet]

in a few

[Morning Tweet]

If we're going to accept that Kid is an even-night something, i think they would have to be even-night bus driver. But if we were to test out Kid's claim (say, have me send a message to someone or have italiano vanillaize) -- could bus driver convincingly reproduce rolestopper results?

Not if we investigate the rolestopped person -- that would be a dead giveaway. Messager, well, you could have the message redirected to a scumteam member and have them stay silent. I suppose confirming a rolestopper is a little tricky since you probably don't want to waste investigations on it.

we do know that the bus driver acted on night 2 (bypass morty protection) and night 4 (screwed up toog/rek investigation), if i have that right..

[Morning Tweet]

Then again, i mean, vanilla cop is prolly worth wasting investigations to confirm kid's role tbh and it had claimed before Gamma did

Mech is dumb

It doesn't seem like there's a way to differentiate between bus driver and rolestopper actually, i was thinking there is but without our investigator, i dont think it's possible since my messages can be redirected to scum. So, hm, I suppose it's possible for Kid to be even-night bus driver masquerading as even-night rolestopper in that case

Now town power does seem on the lower side to me versus rolecop / dayvig / bus driver but I guess if you gate the driver and factor in nancy's vig.... maybe? It leaves us with a half doctor + vanilla cop and a lot uselessness still

[Morning Tweet]

If we're going to accept that Kid is an even-night something, i think they would have to be even-night bus driver.

Nope, dkkoba claimed redirect on an odd night

Oh i got the nights wrong then ty

How can scum get an ungated bus driver? That seems really dumb to me, has to be gated somehow surely or else our protectives are just pointless no?

But you're right in that case, then there's no way Gamma would know to claim Even-Night

But if we were to test out Kid's claim (say, have me send a message to someone or have italiano vanillaize) -- could bus driver convincingly reproduce rolestopper results?

Not if we investigate the rolestopped person -- that would be a dead giveaway.

I think the way dkkoba's role worked was non-standard and that scum would not have known that dkkoba could have identified the redirect

in that case then there's no way for us to distinguish a rolestopped player from a bus driven one really is there?

But point would still stand that Gamma would need a huge stroke of luck to claim something that pairs with a real town role -- and Dunn couldnt have been rolecopped of course.

[Morning Tweet]

Nightskip got me confused

[Morning Tweet]

wait a sec

[Morning Tweet]

My message--! it failed!!!

I know who was attacked and switched with DKKoba as my message never reached them. but does this give us any clues? Will be back later

[Morning Tweet]

Now we know the bus driver has acted at least three times and to be honest my hopes for it being gated somehow are dwindling

[Morning Tweet]

Morning sent me a compilation of her killing rodents with shotguns and flamethrowers 2 nights ago which was kinda sus tbh. I don't get why she'd try and demoralise me like that?

It's a good thing she towntold like 10 times this game so I know she's town

人(-ω-*) im sorrii. at least u knew it had to be me without a doubt

I don't think clidd/Sarah are SvS, clidd's been pushing Sarah for a while now as the deepwolf which doesn't really seem smart when it's just the two of them left and clidd is in the PoE.

it has seemed to me like Sara has been going down for a while now, at least since, hm, when she got brought up the other day and got frustrated. expressing that suspicion wasn't really going to get Sara killed before Toog, either

(This still could be town-indictative for clidd i havent reviewed this enough myself yet)

I want to lean against it being clidd just based off what i've seen of his play but i really start to run out of suspects

[Morning Tweet]

And i just never heard back on my letter!

I was trying to hit a driven target on purpose, by the way, so i made the signal very clear this time: "Claim that you received this". So, no way I missed it or a crumb was messed up or anything

Could wait to judge reactions or something but tbh doesn't feel worth it over just starting to talk about it immediately..

DKKoba and SaraharaS were bus driven last night

[Morning Tweet]

which of us did you target? i didn't get a message

@Nancy - sheep me on Clidd/Kidam tomorrow i guess

I sent you the message, so this implies you and DK were swapped

[Morning Tweet]

I can be on Starcrossed tonight

Tweetie needs to be too (on Starcrossed), so we can catch bus driver if we miss today.

@Tweetie

If I message Star and they are bus driven, it won't tell me who they were bus driven with. If they die, I won't even be able to know if they were bus driven or not

[Morning Tweet]

No, I think that there must be a loud modifier with investigatives because both of them had the exact same thing happen to them.

What?

[Morning Tweet]

is (KidAm + Dunn) with a no protectives rule possible? that reaaaaally doesn't feel balanced at a glance

town wouldnt have a single decent PR in that case, and scum is... well.... *that* team

[Morning Tweet]

But you did with Koba, so why would Starcrossed be any different? I’m basing this on either Star or you being the likely kill tonight and because every single NK so far has been bus driven.

No, I messaged Sara who got bus driven with DKKoba. i know this because Sara did not respond to my message

Had I messaged DKKoba, then Sara (if scum) wouldn't say anything, and then I would have no idea whether or not DK got driven

My messages will be most powerful if I withhold who I targetted or am going to target

[Morning Tweet]

No, I think that there must be a loud modifier with investigatives because both of them had the exact same thing happen to them.

What?

It’s kind’ve atypical for either Koba or you to have been given the bus driver’s target’s identity.

I wasn't. i deduced it from Sara not responding to my message

And DKKoba was simply told who they investigated. [I.e. "Toogeloo is vanilla!"]. I do not receive feedback in the form of moderator feedback on my role. Everything has to do with my target signalling to me in thread (sometimes secretly) that they received the message.

N2 - Starcrossed, success
N3 - Olaf, success
N4 - SaraharaS, failure

Loud modifier means that I inform my target that I visited them, but I'm not loud and neither was DKKoba. The bus driver also isn't loud cause then Toogeloo and SaraharaS would know the bus drivers identity

[Morning Tweet]

Sherlock's associations with clidd are not strong enough to clear clidd alone especially given how scum would have likely been trying to prop Sherlock up, imagine a widely townread 1-shot dayvig, would have been great

Combine that with how clidd now has a coin flip's chance of being the goon, as well as how Sherlock could have reasonably expected to get away with pressuring clidd w/o him dying. I need more reasons to TR him than that (i said this earlier today ik, and obviously Fey has been talking about it a ton, so apologies if i missed other reasons to TR clidd i'll find them eventually)

[Morning Tweet]

Yeah there's no other way my message doesn't reach Sara as far as I can think of. Even if scum has a fourth PR, it doesnt make any sense to interfere with me given the only way i would have noticed is if i messaged exactly sara and even then it's not a huge deal to them

unfortunately it doesnt give me many clues as to the driven player's alignment since this drive follows the same logic as the Toog drive as far as I can tell.

[Morning Tweet]

Spoiler: ignore for now

[A] - SaraharaS
[C] - Clidd
[D] - Dunnstral
[F] - Fey
[K] - KidAmn
[M] - Morning Tweet
[O] - Olaf
[P] - Pink Ball

- Starcrossed

writing this now so i remember to use it later

[Morning Tweet]

Spoiler:

Sam how are you?

batsunami confirmed town

I didn't realize those benedict cumberpatch gifs were of sherlock holmes (or that he played him at all), I thought clidd just really liked the guy

s

My read is losing strength over time, you need to towntell in the next 24 hours, Sam.

My read is losing strength over time, you need to towntell in the next 24 hours, Sam.

VOTE: clidd

i-is it working?

No, the vote was late. Didn't you notice any difference between this game and our past game?

I'm very different, but you haven't mentioned it at any time here.

nope you seem the same to me

even the 24 hours to seem town thing was a lot like the last time we played together

Hum, no.

I should be scummy in your perspective for how I got into the game.

Your vote remains slow, I need a towntell. If you describe your current reads, it will help me check if my tr is right or not.

I think gamma is either town or trying to appear town by taking a cue from our last interaction together

I didn't look into what is normal behavior for saudade, but just by vote alone I lean mafia

I want to shelve toogeloo for day 1

and I think titus messed up and confirmed batsunami town

Ok, it's enough for now. Good timing.

I would probably push you if you came back with a wall.

But it still doesn't make a lot of sense that you didn't push me in earlier.

pedit: Yeah

Has anyone observed clidd do this "You need to towntell for me in the next X amount of time" thing before?

[Morning Tweet]

Also in two bus drives KidAmn has never been switched. I just find myself having a lot of trouble believing his posts are sincere.

why would scum bus drive kid?

[Morning Tweet]

I have no idea what the vote is so i'll just put one of these down in case the day ends while im away

[A] - SaraharaS
[C] - Clidd
[D] - Dunnstral
[F] - Fey
[K] - KidAmn
[M] - Morning Tweet
[O] - Olaf
[P] - Pink Ball

- Starcrossed

In the event i am killed, i still want my last message resolved, so:

I think, if Sara flips town.. i'll message the person whose letter corresponds to "Simple". If Sara flips scum, i'll message the person whose letter corresponds to "Personal". If you don't know what i'm talking about, you should ignore this

Additionally, to confirm they received the message, i will tell my target to, in their very first post of the day, say the name of the role I did an example crumb for (as well as claim they received my message) -- if they do not do this, then they did not receive the message.

[Morning Tweet]

Spoiler:

I have no idea what the vote is so i'll just put one of these down in case the day ends while im away

[A] - SaraharaS
[C] - Clidd
[D] - Dunnstral
[F] - Fey
[K] - KidAmn
[M] - Morning Tweet
[O] - Olaf
[P] - Pink Ball

- Starcrossed

In the event i am killed, i still want my last message resolved, so:

I think, if Sara flips town.. i'll message the person whose letter corresponds to "Simple". If Sara flips scum, i'll message the person whose letter corresponds to "Personal". If you don't know what i'm talking about, you should ignore this

Additionally, to confirm they received the message, i will tell my target to, in their very first post of the day, say the name of the role I did an example crumb for (as well as claim they received my message) -- if they do not do this, then they did not receive the message.

Amendment: if Sara flips bus driver im messaging "Personal", but in every other case i'm messaging "Simple".

[Morning Tweet]

I'm targetting who I crumbed

[Morning Tweet]

Actually sure I'll do what you say instead then

[Morning Tweet]

I am just not quite sure what you're trying to accomplish with having me message Starcrossed, if they are bus driven and killed I will have no way of telling this is true unless the other driven player claims it, but I do not see why they would as scum

If I instead message elsewhere I can potentially confirm who the swapped player is using their silence rather than their confirmation

If Dunn were a rolestopper, this could be possibly be useful as I could confirm that the rolestop went through in the event there is no bus drive

Really all of this doesnt matter much if Sara is scum because presumably the bus driver will no longer be able to act as they will either be dead or last scum standing. If Sara is town, however, this is a waste of a message as far as I can tell

[Morning Tweet]

if I message Starcrossed I will not be able to tell you who Star is switched with. The only way you will know is if the switched person outs it themself, but in the event Sara is town, that will not happen as they will switch Star with the goon (or not drive at all), and you will gain no info

[Morning Tweet]

I get the feeling that you don't understand how my investigation works -- if you want me to have a shot at learning who Star is switched with (if any), you should allow me to pick my own targets. If I message Star, I will not be able to tell you who Star is switched with.

[Morning Tweet]

pretty sure the mason claim was a parting joke. But in any case, let's assume Sara is scum because that is the most likely option

If Sara is scum, the bus driver now cannot act because they are either last scum standing (or Sara is the bus driver and she died). So I'm pointless for finding the driver then anyway

so I'm here to plan for failure and assume Sara is town. And if Sara is town, then messaging Star will be a complete waste as scum will bus drive the goon with Star then not claim my message (or just kill Star) -- making it impossible for us to know whether or not Star was driven. I have already worked through this, Star is not a good target for me to message if Sara is town.

[Morning Tweet]

Here is my best attempt at explaining how I know Sara and DK were bus driven:

Last night, I sent Sara a message. The message included something like this: "Claim that you received a message from Morning in your first post". As you saw, Sara did not do this. The message didn't reach Sara, then. That or Sara is lying about not receiving my message and is scum, but it makes no sense to do that.

Who is the only player in the game who would be unable to follow my "Claim that you received this message" instructions? DKKoba. (Technically the other scum could, but I am operating under the assumption the driver cannot drive themself).

Why does scum do this? Sara is the most unprotectable player in the game, they want to kill DK, so they attack Sara and swap em. Makes sense to me.

Now what did NOT happen:

I did not receive feedback in the form of "Your message went to DK instead!" or "Your target was bus driven!". I figured out the bus drive because my message was not followed.

[Morning Tweet]

Now here's how this factors in to Star:

If I message Starcrossed, and they are driven and killed, my message will go to whoever they were driven with.

I will have no idea if this occurs or not.

However, there is one way I can force a target into inadvertently telling me whether or not they were driven with the nightkill:

"Claim that you received this message"

If I message someone of my choice (who is not the nightkill AKA Star) to claim that they received my message, and they fail to do so, I know with certainty that they were transported with the dead player. There is no way scum can avoid this.

That is the extent of my power, as you can see it is not much but it's enough to tell us that the bus driver appears to be ungated or at the very least 3-shot.

If I message Star, scum can drive them with another target and I will be powerless to tell you anything about it -- UNLESS the driven target claims they got my message. However, there's no reason for scum to transport a townie, so they'll just transport the goon and stay silent so I can't know what happened.

[Morning Tweet]

Spoiler:

[A] - SaraharaS
[C] - Clidd
[D] - Dunnstral
[F] - Fey
[K] - KidAmn
[M] - Morning Tweet
[O] - Olaf
[P] - Pink Ball

- Starcrossed

if Sara flips bus driver im messaging "Personal", but in every other case i'm messaging "Simple". The message will instruct my target to, in their very first post, mention the role that I demonstrated how to crumb.

good night all ♡

[Morning Tweet]

Fey has died. They were a

1-shot Night Skip

.

:cry:

I’m surprised by this but the good news is maybe hopefully Tweetie got lucky and her target got bus driven with Fey. *fingers crossed*

I knew Sarah was flipping scum, it was beyond obvious. :lol:

I doubt that the bus driver is still in commission considering there's only one scum remaining. Also, for my result to be useful, you would need to assume the Bus Driver can't self target

[Morning Tweet]

Also, the last scum is a bus driver -- Kid claims Even-Night Rolestopper. If we can confirm that to be the case, they are very unlikely to be the last scum, no? Why aren't we doing that? I can verify their role with ease.

[Morning Tweet]

Wait, I guess they could just kill Morning but then they're killing a messenger over a mason/vig but eh, Morning's locktown anyway.

Can't do that, my messages still function after my death and I know how to set them up so scum can't fake receiving it either

They could shoot the player that we agree to message and rolestop, but ideally we'd choose someone scummy. Also, the only way they could shoot the player is if the bus driver still works (or if Kid is scum)

[Morning Tweet]

it seems like scum valued killing Fey (a more active player) over me, even though I technically hold a little more power than her

Kinda odd that scum didn't consider how I can confirm Kid's role tonight as long as there's no bus driver

[Morning Tweet]

Yes, I was surprised by it, all things considered. Perhaps it was because I had her as solidly locktown from the getgo and Sarah flip sealed it?

Me/Star/Fey are never going to be suspected so other players' reads on us don't matter so much as our reads on others

In Fey's case, pyro is right and she spent a lot of time exploring why Sherlock's push on clidd doesn't clear him. she also revealed she still thinks clidd is possible if sara is scum. She also consistently seemed to lean clidd/Sara over Kid/Sara (6259)

i dont really have many outstanding reads so killing me wouldnt give any advantage or disadvantage

Killing Star... hm, well, if the bus driver were still active, they could have killed Star if they wanted. But there's no difference between Star/Fey mechanically and i would probably argue Fey is the most optimal kill

I think, given the option, nearly every player would choose Fey out of us three (And Star isn't even possible without bus drive). So perhaps NKA isn't so useful

[Morning Tweet]

I think, given the option, nearly every player would choose Fey out of us three (And Star isn't even possible without bus drive). So perhaps NKA isn't so useful

Okay, so there are minor motives for killing Star and I. Star definitely leaned Kid being scum, and I have the ability to confirm Kid's role. Scum's last chance to prevent me from confirming Kid was last night.

You would kinda think that Kid!scum realizes I essentially guilty them, but either way we can find that out in a few

[Morning Tweet]

Counterpoint, the only options were myself and Fey and both of us are going to die before voting Pyro becomes an issue. Not that i'm suspecting Pyro currently, but yeah

[Morning Tweet]

Counterpoint, the only options were myself and Fey and both of us are going to die before voting Pyro becomes an issue. Not that i'm suspecting Pyro currently, but yeah

Yeah, but you can confirm KidAmn as town instead of them being a free mislaunch which is honestly a pretty big blunder for scum to make here.

(if KidAmn is town)

Yeah don't really see how that happens, you would think scum would consider the pros and cons between Fey and I.

Unless if the bus driver is still in effect, then they can stop me and Fey is still probably a slightly better kill.

If scum has an ungated bus driver that can multitask, then I would have to ask: why do we even have (gated lol) protectives if they're going to be useless

[Morning Tweet]

Unless if the bus driver is still in effect, then they can stop me and Fey is still probably a slightly better kill.

Oh actually even if scum decides to mess up my check on Kid with bus driver, that forces them to kill outside of the confirmed town bloc. So not killing me was just a blunder in every case

[Morning Tweet]

Spoiler:

[A] - SaraharaS
[C] - Clidd
[D] - Dunnstral
[F] - Fey
[K] - KidAmn
[M] - Morning Tweet
[O] - Olaf
[P] - Pink Ball

- Starcrossed

if Sara flips bus driver im messaging "Personal", but in every other case i'm messaging "Simple". The message will instruct my target to, in their very first post, mention the role that I demonstrated how to crumb.

good night all ♡

Do you think these clues were obvious because I had no idea what this meant but this would literally be the first night, that we don’t have any evidence of a bus drive.

It’s beyond obvious that Sarah and Koba were switched because no way Titus wouldn’t have coordinated with Sarah to respond to your message.

Only Starcrossed knows how to interpret that post, it would be completely impossible for anyone else. There's no correlation between the letters I assigned to each player and the words "Personal" and "Simple" aside from the arbitrary way I connected them

I did that so even if I die, Star could still confirm whether or not clidd received the message.

[Morning Tweet]

Unless if the bus driver is still in effect, then they can stop me and Fey is still probably a slightly better kill.

Oh actually even if scum decides to mess up my check on Kid with bus driver, that forces them to kill outside of the confirmed town bloc. So not killing me was just a blunder in every case

I would have killed you if I were scum because Fey was confirmed one shot. It could either point to or away from Clidd since she was hard pushing him.

It seems that scum wasn't paying much attention so they killed Fey to protect/frame clidd while getting rid of an active player... which would be a better nightkill over me in every way, except that I can investigate Kid tonight or force scum to kill a PoE player.

They had to have overlooked it, even with a bus driver scum cannot escape this as far as I can tell..

[Morning Tweet]

You are the only ungated slot. Otherwise, there are two schools of thought when it comes to NKA. One is to kill the slot that’s most likely to push you, the other is NOT to do that. Perhaps scum didn’t kill you because they didn’t bus drive last night? And if they didn’t then why didn’t they?

There's only one scum left. They can't bus drive

and

kill (without multi-tasking). That would be the most likely reason by far.

Additionally, they only need to bus drive if they are trying to kill Star last night -- which they didnt

[Morning Tweet]

Well you and them are very likely the next two kills, if we get it wrong today.

Well, I mean, yeah. They can't kill us both at once, though, so Star can resolve my messages after my death if necessary.

I can force scum to have to kill a PoE player if they want top stop my investigation on Kid -- so there's a slight chance one of us makes it to Xylo actually

[Morning Tweet]

Yes or if it is actually Clidd, then maybe Fey was killed > you, so you could be alive to confirm.

Confirm what?

[Morning Tweet]

Yes or if it is actually Clidd, then maybe Fey was killed > you, so you could be alive to confirm.

Confirm what?

You confirmed Clidd received your message, maybe that wasn’t an accident?

Scum couldn't know who I was sending the message to while making night actions -- they get the message in the morning.

Also, the message doesn't really mean anything except that clidd wasn't bus drived which is whatever.

[Morning Tweet]

You confirmed Clidd received your message, maybe that wasn’t an accident?

Scum couldn't know who I was sending the message to while making night actions -- they get the message in the morning.

Also, the message doesn't really mean anything except that clidd wasn't bus drived which is whatever.

Oh also if i died Star would have confirmed the message for me

[Morning Tweet]

How many valid targets were there for Kid to choose from to protect on that night?

[Morning Tweet]

I think scum not killing me is a clear indicator they thought very little of my power -- which would lightly suggest the bus driver can no longer act, I think at the very least.

It is highly unlikely they gave any mind to my message towards clidd, it doesn't really mean much.

[Morning Tweet]

If bus driver can multitask, it would make more sense to kill me as I have the power to out that fact. I think keeping driver a secret is advantageous to scum at this point for playing around the protectives / framing them and whatnot

It also is just objectively correct to kill me since whether or not there's a bus driver they're still getting hurt, but I suppose we assume that they missed that part.

As for why scum!Kid outs the bus driver -- yeah it seems unnecessary for them to do for sure. I wouldn't say it's clearing because WIFOM and also it was going to get outted sooner or later when a protection failed down the line.

In any case I'm highly in favour of not eliminating Kid today, having Kid and I target an agreed-upon PoE player, and learning whether or not their rolestop works. As long as the PoE player isn't killed, they will be able to say whether or not they got the message. If scum has a functioning bus driver, they can kill the PoE player to stop this, but that is also a fine outcome. If they kill me, Star will confirm the message in my place.

Note that the bus driver can't make it so my message goes to a different player cause they'd also be moving the rolestop. Also also note that if our PoE player IS the scum, they can't fake guilty Kid because that would require confirming my message.

So if we elim, say, clidd today and scum kills me, then tomorrow we have

Starcrossed - town
Kid - confirmed rolestopper or not rolestopper
Dunn - odd-night doctor (can act tonight)
Pyro
Pink Ball

Let's say Kid is a rolestopper. They can't be the bus driver then, barring probably the most ridiculous scumteam in history. Have Dunn protect Star, elim Pink Ball, scum must kill Kid or they lose

Starcrossed
Dunn
Pyro

you've got a 50/50 Xylo in the absolute worst case. Even if Star dies by bus driver fuckery, you'd have Kid instead who also is town at that point so still 50/50

[Morning Tweet]

Dunn would act night seven, not night six ^^

Also, it assumes every player is town since if a scum dies the game ends and there's no need for the rest of the plan

[Morning Tweet]

My plan has Kid rolestop a PoE player on N6 and has Dunn protect the remaining confirmed town on N7, sooo yeah

[Morning Tweet]

Spoiler: Scum ignores and kills Morning

Morning messages Pink Ball
KidAmn rolestops Pink Ball
Scum kills Morning

Outcome: Morning is dead, no one claims the message

Spoiler: Scum bus drives to sabotage

Morning messages Pink Ball
KidAmn rolestops Pink Ball
Scum bus drives Pink Ball with Pyro
Scum kills Pyro

Outcome: Pink Ball is dead, no one claims the message

Spoiler: Kid kills Pink Ball to sabotage

Morning messages Pink Ball
KidAmn kills Pink Ball

Outcome: Pink Ball is dead, no one claims the message

Spoiler: Kid is scum who ignores and kills Morning

Morning messages Pink Ball
KidAmn kills Morning

Outcome: Morning is dead, Pink Ball claims he received the message

Spoiler: Kid bus drives to kill Morning

Morning messages Pink Ball
KidAmn bus drives Pink Ball and Morning
KidAmn kills Pink Ball

Outcome: Morning is dead, no one claims the message

If Kid is a scum multitasking bus driver, they can redirect the message from the PoE player and into the kill which would mess this up. Unfortunately, the only scenario I can't cover is exactly Kid being a multitasking driver.

So if (say Pink Ball) doesn't receive my message, that means Kid is either rolestopper or multitasking bus driver. So I can't get a perfect clear after all.. maybe i'll think of something better, but atm it's still the most info I can think of getting

[Morning Tweet]

I'm glad this is public info rather than something i need to guess about. Kinda seems like Titus doesn't want us to take Kid out of the PoE, but WIFOM so whatever

That would be a funny plan to have scum!Kid self-vote then proceed to have Titus continue to be concerned with what I'm doing to try to save them from being elimed

So the scumteam is essentially completely immune to our protectives and is also capable of ruining my checker ability

:I

[Morning Tweet]

So the scumteam is essentially completely immune to our protectives and is also capable of ruining my checker ability

In other words, i guess actually playing the game to determine scum is required.

In Kid's defense, they and Dunn are not scum together and Kid would have had no way to know to claim Even-Night to corroborate with Dunn's role. I tried disproving this by saying the bus driver seemed to only act on even-nights earlier, but that was actually wrong. So: how does scum!Gamma know to claim that modifier? I don't believe this was ever answered, and surely you would need an answer to this in order to elim Kid?

[Morning Tweet]

Tweetie are you able to message yourself?

possibly, why?

[Morning Tweet]

how and why did scum!gamma claim even-night?

[Morning Tweet]

In other words, i guess actually playing the game to determine scum is required.

Yes. One of my rules was no loyal/disloyal, no cops/gunsmiths (hence the fake), no PT cops. You aren't going to generate enough clears to autowin.

We play to the last man standing, no matter how exhausted and stressed I am, I'm going to fight. No concessions.

Hm, how'd you manage to get a full Rolecop, full Bus Driver, and 1-shot dayvig then, I wonder?

I like that rule though, i think vigilantes are generally more fun to play with than cop-likes, since it's no fun to lose to mech clears. I do struggle with how town getting no protectives and only a vanilla cop for investigatives was justified, especially considering the only remaining PRs were a vanillizer that could act as an additional scum PR and a vanilla cop

not sure this gives us any clues though because Dunn or Kid being real/fake doesn't really change the setup balance too much

[Morning Tweet]

I can target myself, there aren't any restrictions other than my target has to be a non-stump player i know now. there also isn't a wordcount limit or anything which is what tempted me into abusing it for cryptic messages

I've been playing around with flipping a coin and messaging either myself or Starcrossed (and crumbing which one to Star before the night) and seeing where that gets me

[Morning Tweet]

as far as i can tell, any type of rigid plan can be thwarted by the bus driver, whether it's Kid or not, to making it impossible to tell whether Kid is rolestopper or the driver

Having Kid and I do whatever we like with our actions (and I secretly crumb mine to Star before night starts) -- then having Kid claims their action -> message target claim they received it -> Star/I claim who I targetted -- has a small chance of revealing something contradictory or something that affirms Kid as rolestopper

[Morning Tweet]

Dying is different from being targetted with the kill, in order to prevent the kill you have to target who is being targetted with the kill

In any case i see now with the bus driver being multitasking, if we announce actions we both A.) will never save anyone and B.) will have no way of knowing the difference between Kid!rolestopper and Kid!driver

[Morning Tweet]

Spoiler:

[C] - Clidd
[D] - Dunnstral
[M] - Morning Tweet
[O] - Olaf
[P] - Pink Ball

- Starcrossed

i'm messaging "Alien" if we're not done here yet

[Morning Tweet]

@Nancy, your bluffs are terrible.

Aren't they just.

Is anyone still seriously doubting that Starcrossed was the preferred target and not Fey?

Kid is very clearly TMI slipping with this. He’s agreeing with Titus that Starcrossed was the the obvious target but they didn’t die because town doc Dunn protected them.

arent they referring to this ?

I actually do have one or two strongwilled loyal/disloyal shots left. Still sure you don’t want to spare yourself the inevitable humiliation and concede?

Also you realize that bus driving scum can kill Star easily if you declare protection on them right

[Morning Tweet]

VOTE: KidAmn

♥

[Morning Tweet]

or else like Koba, you would have been informed that Sarah was switched.

For the last time, no i would not have, that is not how it works.

But I see what you're saying, you're theorizing that Kid rolestopped Sara the night I messaged her and their bus drive ability only happened on the Koba night (since the bus drive that dodged Kid's rolestop no longer has to exist)

Yeah, it's possible. Maybe a JoAT sort of thing i guess

[Morning Tweet]

Tweetie sends Sarah a message she obviously never received on N4 but Tweetie is never actually informed she didn’t receive it or that Koba actually did. That points to Sarah being RS’d N4 which would mean that Kid lied about RSing Dunn.

It doesn't point to anything. Rolestop and bus driver are equally possible from that result. Both of those will not inform me and both will result in Sara not claiming my message

Koba knows who they targetted because they get feedback cause they're an investigative. I get no feedback.

doesnt really matter at this point though i guess

[Morning Tweet]

A bus drive would have meant that Tweetie would like Koba actually be informed that her target got switched.

I hope Kid wasn't elimed for this, cause, again, that is not correct.

I agree Kid had to die for the self vote and their attitude today though, especially since I could not conceive of a plan to investigate them. A bit odd that Titus goes out of her way to correct me from trying to save Kid but whatevs

[Morning Tweet]

Mm yeah i really didnt think there'd be an answer to the even-night problem, sigh. I understand why the elim was made though if only because Kid was tilted out of their mind

[Morning Tweet]

Pyro missing how my plan to clear Kid was faulty and also hand-waving the "Even-night" problem are both kind of odd. Of course, I agree the Fey kill was quite agiven for scum to make.

I suppose if you want to explain the bussing [disclaimer: not entirely sure but i am under the impression Pyro bussed at least War and Peace hard] -- the bus driver is the scumteam's most important member, after all. Perhaps it wasn't by chance.

I am inclined to agree with the deceased mason off the bat here, but we'll see what happens

[Morning Tweet]

Attempting to deceive Titus via the setup seems a waste of time given she should probably know the most about it -- as well as the mechanics behind the versus series as a whole, don't you think?

Mmm, I have more things I want to say to Kanna's case but i think it would be wise to let Pyro go first

[Morning Tweet]

You know, I thought i would die given i have a slight possibility to detect bussed targets -- which, also has the possibility to clear them if the bus driver cannot self target. They do not seem particularly concerned over this scenario, so i might take that as confirmation the bus driver can target themself.

That, or the slight benefit my role provides doesn't override how I am a bit less likely to turn on the driver than Star was. Perhaps this information is not so useful.

I am actually just going to pose this question because i will likely forget it later: If we're going to go with this mason-hunting line of thought, why was Star not executed by Olaf sooner? Or perhaps actually since there were plenty of other good NK targets, why did Olaf not quit with the mason-hunting style posts sooner? I believe their mason identity was made clear before the vig claim. Even as early as D3 with their reaction to my message it seemed quite possible. They also became the only unclaimed player on... D4 perhaps? Seems unecessary.

This doesn't disqualify olaf as scum, but it does make me question that particular line of thought

[Morning Tweet]

Had Starcrossed mason claimed, they would have died > Fey and since I believe she was wrongly defending Pyro, she probably would have pushed for Clidd. I think either Kid/Dunn townflip soft confitowns the other because bus drive is now confirmed to have happened on Night 2, 3 and very probably 4. Dunn will obviously protect you tonight and your death will confitown him because of bus driver.

VCA spews PB town as well as Krazy initially wanting him “gunchecked”.

I know that Fey said that Clidd was never in danger but that’s not how you treat a buddy in this kind of setup.

I do not believe so, Star's role does not make them inherently more useful than Fey, unless I am overestimating our collective confidence in Fey being town.

Keeping Fey alive would be somewhat helpful for Pyro actually.. killing Star and myself would allow him to leave Fey alive for quite long without it being questioned. Hmm, that is a strange move for him to make.

Certainly you realize that if Dunn is scum he will simply kill me and claim there was a bus drive, yes?

At this point in time I do not believe clidd is the last scum, I agree. Especially given the last scum is the bus driver.

[Morning Tweet]

Of course, I agree the Fey kill was quite agiven for scum to make.

Hm, backpedaling on this a bit, Fey is of course a very valid kill option, although part of me wonders why Pyro would want me to last the longest rather than Fey.

A distraction, maybe, given neither Fey or I would make it to final 3 so he couldn't have her available at the last critical moment. Perhaps the short-term "I would never kill Fey" was more valuable.

I'm going in circles on that issue -- need to nap on it!

What I am sure of is that Pyro's stances towards Kid were somewhat odd.. He missed that my plan to clear Kid would not actually work. He noticed the same thing I did with regards to Titus, she seemed concerned about me accidentally thinking Kid is town which made no sense if Kid were her actual last scum standing. But then he hand-waved probably the strongest defense which was the Even-night claim. Weird

[Morning Tweet]

You know, I thought i would die given i have a slight possibility to detect bussed targets -- which, also has the possibility to clear them if the bus driver cannot self target. They do not seem particularly concerned over this scenario, so i might take that as confirmation the bus driver can target themself.

Oh, that is right, we killed Kid. My role served no function last night as there was no reason for the driver to act.

[Morning Tweet]

Well, N2, Titus obviously thought Morty and Rick were my mason. N3 REK died because of role cop. N4, Koba outing the bus driver made them the #1 threat in the game. N5, Starcrossed claimed vig and Sarah gambit made it clear that scum thought I had a mason in the vts but I guess since they weren’t sure there wasn’t, they killed Fey, which probably wasn’t smart if Pyro is scum here but It’s obviously not you, Kid flip backs up Dunn’s even night claim, since we know bus driver is ungated. PB’s ISO is so townie it hurts plus strong anti associatives with both S & W/W & P. Kanna was right on Kid and she was even more confident on Clidd. In our mason discord, she was practically begging me to never elim Clidd.

There was no gambit by sara, you need to forget about that idea. There is no such thing as fakeclaiming mason lul

Dunn is odd night, and Kid doesn't back up his claim because Dunn claimed second.. Dunn backed up Kid, actually...

[Morning Tweet]

Fey died > you I think because I’ve made it clear from the getgo that I’m never eliming her, so scum maybe thought you were more pushable? Also no actual evidence of bus driver N5, since you reached your target. However, you were locktown after Sarah flipped.

If thats the theory you're running with, it makes Pyro seem more innocent because it is practically impossible for him to be able to turn on me. Someone else would have to scumread me for him.

I feel as if Star, Fey, and I were all similar levels of unpushable, even if you didn't townread us which is unlikely, our mech made us very likely town as well

[Morning Tweet]

(it's Dunny)

Hell yeah this'll be fun

[Morning Tweet]

Sigh, this would've been a lot easier had you not all decided to scumread me before I had a chance to post. Now it looks like I'm reacting to the reads and forcing a 1v1 when in reality I was sure on this read overnight

Sorry

[Morning Tweet]

Last scum being either Dunn/Pyro rather than PB/clidd seems correct, which contradicts my PB/clidd/Sara PoE from a long ways back but i think it makes wayyyy more sense that the driver isn't clidd or Saudade/PB now

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Well, N2, Titus obviously thought Morty and Rick were my mason. N3 REK died because of role cop. N4, Koba outing the bus driver made them the #1 threat in the game. N5, Starcrossed claimed vig and Sarah gambit made it clear that scum thought I had a mason in the vts but I guess since they weren’t sure there wasn’t, they killed Fey, which probably wasn’t smart if Pyro is scum here but It’s obviously not you, Kid flip backs up Dunn’s even night claim, since we know bus driver is ungated. PB’s ISO is so townie it hurts plus strong anti associatives with both S & W/W & P. Kanna was right on Kid and she was even more confident on Clidd. In our mason discord, she was practically begging me to never elim Clidd.

Oh to actually respond more to this post -- I agree that there were better nightkills than Star even if scum realized they were mason (which they really should have). DKKoba and Fey were both at least as valuable as Star.

What i mean though is, what is the point for pressuring Star to claim exactly? I believe Pyro did this far past when it was clear likely to everyone that Star was at least *important*. They were the only unclaimed player. So what's the idea behind it?

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Kanna and Nancy at least have mentioned that Pyro wouldn't point out townslips or possible masons or whatnot when it's better to keep his mouth shut as town.. but in a game I moderated, Pyro blurted out that he had noticed a dead gunsmith's inno crumb.. when Pyro was a commuter and that was his last chance to draw a nightkill -- so that was kind of a mistake in the same category. I wouldn't discount the possibility just yet.

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Nancy pyro wasn't calling me scum it was a joke lul

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If you're going to interpret Titus' voting pattern in any meaningful way you are opening yourself up to playing into her hands at worst or finding nothing out at best. Dont think clidd is scum at all though

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I don't get what Morning is doing/saying. It looks robotic and not very gamesolving, but from what I understand the slot is mechanically town, so I will ignore those impressions.

Fair

Your impressions and your decision to ignore them are both on the money

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The thing is why no bus drive last night?

We killed kidamn so there was no reason to bus drive

Sorry, I was referring to N5.

How do you know that there was no bus drive N5?

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Yes exactly, why would Alisae have one even night role but no odd night anything? Sure it’s possible but in most games, you don’t have one without the other.

What? Why not?

Both the rolestopper and doctor are fairly useless roles to setup balance anyway considering the driver, dont think it would change much. If the driver dies they're activated sure but still dont see it affecting balance a ton

And where did I miss the unspoken "Even nights need an odd night counterpart" rule? I'd never abide by that while designing a setup

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For the record id totally have bussed Sara, why wouldn't I have? I'm town for other reasons

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Nancy I don't see how Tweetie can be scum if their role is messenger and the last scum is a bus driver

I know that, where are you getting I even think that? She’s super locktown.

I'm confused why you're spending so much time defending me because no one is pushing me

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lol I just opened your message

@Starcrossed batshit bat around right off the bat batty tab cat rat eat

Oh okay. @Tweetie why target the same slot twice: Days 3 & 6?

Why not? Olaf wasn't bussed the first time I messaged him, may as well try again shall we?

There was no logic behind my last message, it was completely irrelevant as a drive last night would be completely useless with Kid dead

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For the record id totally have bussed Sara, why wouldn't I have? I'm town for other reasons

Okay but hanging her out to dry isn’t even in the same ballpark as bussing. Bussing specifically refers to pushes or votes, not to hanging a buddy out to dry with your NA. And yes very obviously true.

Ah, that is fair, I did reveal the switch which was incriminating looking.

Although, same thing happened to Toog, it isn't totally damning. Anyway...

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Okay fair enough but there usually is although I played a game on MU once where I was even night vig and no odd counterpart but there was in Cards of Destiny: Gamma, even night town bus driver with BEF, odd night town roleblocker or something? Can’t recall now. Do you remember? @Dunn

The only conclusion I draw from Kid and Dunn's claims is that the claims alone made Kid likely town, as Dunn corroborates them. Accidentally claiming symmetrically with another protect would be hard.

Dunn does not have that benefit because he claimed second. I wrote Dunn off this game because I believed him a while back when he mentioned how his role made him interpret War and Peace's gunsmith claim differently, or something like that. It was very towny sounding and gave credibility to the claim

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nvm Fey was actually a shit kill for Pyro, i would be fairly surprised if he opted for the wifom rather than the logical choice of killing me and star first. Fey's protection would be strong even if it seemed like the obvious route for scum pyro to take

Sorry to ask this, just paranoia hitting: what's all the evidence we actually have about the existence of a bus driver? Just the list, no analysis

just to summarize all we know just cause:

Kid's rolestop was bypassed N2

Koba's invest was swapped to Toog from REK N3

My message to Sara failed N4, likely because sara was attacked and swapped with koba

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if Pyro's scum here his scumgame has improved significantly from an already pretty good baseline

I don't think the scumcase on Dunn would have happened if he were scum, neither would have the irritation towards kanna and us for SRing at start of day

And I don't foresee it being pb or clidd

So I could go back and pretend to notice what it is that made dunn scummy, but i think he played quite well actually, even if some of the fault is on me for not reading much further into the bit that made me tr him

i suppose my question to Dunn would be is, what did you mean exactly by how your role made you suspect WnP less, i suppose. Being able to point backwards and demonstrate how your role made you change your play and reads is really good for giving credibility to the claim but i didnt really think much about *why* your role made you think that just so much as it did

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I agree mason hunting doesnt add up as a reason

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Scum stump can't have powers she's right

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And Pyro wanting Dunn to be limmed today and not tomorrow pings me as that the scumteam could win today and not tomorrow. That's why I'm concerned

aren't you the one who pushed for Pyro to case Dunn hard?

I don't think there's any way for scum to win tonight aside from them having an extra surprise kill (on top of the extra surprise dayvig they already had), and then you'd need to give that power to their ungated (or at least 3-shot bus driver)

Scumteam's power roles getting ridiculous in that scenario

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Scum stump can't have powers she's right

I thought Hectic did last game? but don’t recall. I know FL didn’t.

Uh, well there was a special mechanic where FL and Hectic could like give a player a hug to move them next to themselves on the walkies list

Don't really think that counts as a night action though

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Yeah that

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I dont see any panicking (or at least any other kind of sign from Dunn) that we're throwing the game we had an advantage in away by letting scum!clidd slip away. Dunn obviously can't just say it's Pyro as scum, either

Theres a certain mindset you usually get into when the game is lost from your town PoV and you're one of the miselims, it has the power to get you really into it at times

Dunn doesn't give the appearance of a frustrated townie (As Kid did) either

He just seems like scum who cant do anything without giving it massive effort and even then there'd be no promise of winning

I have not actually reviewed the case itself but just its existence and the response are possibly more telling anyway

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i like the emphasis on town having weaker PRs and there being more room for dayplay, soo much more fun than sleeping as VT and sheeping others cause they got more info IMO

i only spent so much time on doing mechanical stuff with my messages cause that's where my motivation felt like being

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When is the versus series going to be redesigned so the stump can't have multiple masons

Yes, I hard disagree with you, having masons was one of the main reasons I wanted to be town stump and yes without them, this game would have been even more extremely stressful than it already was. We are obviously coming at this from two completely different perspectives and I sincerely hope, masons continue to be an absolute mainstay of this format.

Oh

See the problem is it sucks for town cause they just have to listen to the stump rather than play the game themselves because the stump just knows shit and you might accidentally disrupt that by outting masons

If everyone plays less and lets the stump determine more (like elims and night actions) then it's +EV but ----fun. I've never managed to stay invested enough to solve in one of these games for that very reason, except in Pooky's cause he didn't really restrict us too much

I imagine it's also a quite annoying feeling for scum to get checkmated by masons since there's a pattern where town's townreads are nonmasons and the PoE is masons + scum, at least it definitely is for me. This is more of a preferential thing though i suppose, some might like the challenge of having to kill the masons as soon as possible

There has to be a way to preserve the town stump being a leader without making it so town's objectively best play is always to follow the stump... although I'm not sure how. Of course, maybe other people disagree and actually enjoy the supreme leader aspect, but it's not my cup of tea.

Even if it gets me saved from 50 votes and like 3 separate intent to hammers in FL v. Hectic which was mildly entertaining