Yggdrasil - Stratum FINAL -

[Thestatusquo]

Hello as many of you are aware I'm moving this weekend and then i won't have internet until Thursday so my access will be spotty and limited and please don't yeet me because of it. If you look at my last few games you'll see I'm not lurky as either alignment this is just a bad week for me.

[Thestatusquo]

VOTE: bingle

As thanks for reviewing all my games.

[Thestatusquo]

VOTE: Bell

Hey

Very rude of you to not vote me tbh

[Thestatusquo]

i need help deciding what video game i should play next. there is no joy in the world.

we can play mafia on the side too if you want, at least until Rune Factory 5 releases in English.

VOTE: Murdercat

I've been enjoying slay the spire recently. I'm garbage at it, but its a fun game to be garbage at.

[Thestatusquo]

I feel like this is advice designed for someone who can already beat the heart on ascension 0.

[Thestatusquo]

Slay is on mobile! I think!

[Thestatusquo]

Also, last real post from me before I go sink into the swamp for a while.

If I come back and this game is impossible to read because of too many posts, I will be killing the person with the most posts.

VOTE: LLD
Stifling discussion: bad.

[Thestatusquo]

Ok but actually tho in my experience a lot of the people who like to complain about the lol fluff posting of day 1 are scum. It's an easy entry for scum to make and has the bonus of actually being bad for town in that in general more discussion equals more potential signal even at the cost of more noise.

That is to say my vote was at least semi-serious.

[Thestatusquo]

Ok but actually tho in my experience a lot of the people who like to complain about the lol fluff posting of day 1 are scum. It's an easy entry for scum to make and has the bonus of actually being bad for town in that in general more discussion equals more potential signal even at the cost of more noise.

That is to say my vote was at least semi-serious.

Not complaining about fluff posting. I'm saying if I return and it's 100 pages long, then I'm killing the hyper poster.

different things, Shea

I'm interested in the outcomes here, not the surface level reasoning.

[Thestatusquo]

Ok but actually tho in my experience a lot of the people who like to complain about the lol fluff posting of day 1 are scum. It's an easy entry for scum to make and has the bonus of actually being bad for town in that in general more discussion equals more potential signal even at the cost of more noise.

That is to say my vote was at least semi-serious.

Hmm. I disagree, but i find this post very towny.

Interested in why you disagree.

[Thestatusquo]

To spit in the face of God itself.

[Thestatusquo]

Ok but actually tho in my experience a lot of the people who like to complain about the lol fluff posting of day 1 are scum. It's an easy entry for scum to make and has the bonus of actually being bad for town in that in general more discussion equals more potential signal even at the cost of more noise.

That is to say my vote was at least semi-serious.

Hmm. I disagree, but i find this post very towny.

Pretty sure this is NAI for Shea

You know, I kind of want to dig into this.

This is something I faced a lot in team mafia where I would do townie things that are in my town meta and people would be like "well this is NAI for Shea." and honestly its kind of frustrating. I know I'm good at scum and I know I'm good at replicating my town game, but at some point you can look at the motivation for my points and make a judgement call about them. Just saying "this is NAI" is lazy and doesn't really seem like much of an attempt at solving. I am solveable, everyone is.

Not to be all LAMIST but solve me, don't be apathetic about it. Look into the why of my posts.

[Thestatusquo]

oh also can hydras try to sign off with which head makes the post? That would be helpful for me, a person who really doesn't work well with reading hydras.

[Thestatusquo]

Ok but actually tho in my experience a lot of the people who like to complain about the lol fluff posting of day 1 are scum. It's an easy entry for scum to make and has the bonus of actually being bad for town in that in general more discussion equals more potential signal even at the cost of more noise.

That is to say my vote was at least semi-serious.

Hmm. I disagree, but i find this post very towny.

Pretty sure this is NAI for Shea

You know, I kind of want to dig into this.

This is something I faced a lot in team mafia where I would do townie things that are in my town meta and people would be like "well this is NAI for Shea." and honestly its kind of frustrating. I know I'm good at scum and I know I'm good at replicating my town game, but at some point you can look at the motivation for my points and make a judgement call about them. Just saying "this is NAI" is lazy and doesn't really seem like much of an attempt at solving. I am solveable, everyone is.

Not to be all LAMIST but solve me, don't be apathetic about it. Look into the why of my posts.

Now granted I was scum in that game so maybe that cuts against my point but I think it holds anyway. The same thing also happened in Stuff I'm Listening To.

[Thestatusquo]

Ok but actually tho in my experience a lot of the people who like to complain about the lol fluff posting of day 1 are scum. It's an easy entry for scum to make and has the bonus of actually being bad for town in that in general more discussion equals more potential signal even at the cost of more noise.

That is to say my vote was at least semi-serious.

Hmm. I disagree, but i find this post very towny.

Pretty sure this is NAI for Shea

You know, I kind of want to dig into this.

This is something I faced a lot in team mafia where I would do townie things that are in my town meta and people would be like "well this is NAI for Shea." and honestly its kind of frustrating. I know I'm good at scum and I know I'm good at replicating my town game, but at some point you can look at the motivation for my points and make a judgement call about them. Just saying "this is NAI" is lazy and doesn't really seem like much of an attempt at solving. I am solveable, everyone is.

Not to be all LAMIST but solve me, don't be apathetic about it. Look into the why of my posts.

the "what" a player does is what i would call surface-level, in a meta where replicating your town meta is an art that isn't all that difficult to learn. so i agree with the spirit of the post.

but "why" did shea make it? is it perhaps because he's annoyed he can't get the towncred for the towny-shea posting? hm hm hm? it's okay though, i understand. i do the same thing as scum.

There's definitely motivations for both town and scum shea to make this post.

[Thestatusquo]

Titus what if i told u im gonna call u town all game

I'd worry given my posts match my health, barely not vomiting.

Okay then i will do so =)

Fire why you wanna townread me?

Odds are in my favor ur town. U get scumread too often in games and i liked ur response.
Plus i think it would be amusing to see if i can get u paranoid.

Ok but actually tho in my experience a lot of the people who like to complain about the lol fluff posting of day 1 are scum. It's an easy entry for scum to make and has the bonus of actually being bad for town in that in general more discussion equals more potential signal even at the cost of more noise.

That is to say my vote was at least semi-serious.

Hmm. I disagree, but i find this post very towny.

Pretty sure this is NAI for Shea

You know, I kind of want to dig into this.

This is something I faced a lot in team mafia where I would do townie things that are in my town meta and people would be like "well this is NAI for Shea." and honestly its kind of frustrating. I know I'm good at scum and I know I'm good at replicating my town game, but at some point you can look at the motivation for my points and make a judgement call about them. Just saying "this is NAI" is lazy and doesn't really seem like much of an attempt at solving. I am solveable, everyone is.

Not to be all LAMIST but solve me, don't be apathetic about it. Look into the why of my posts.

Ohh are we going to 1v1 this early? I am not gonna be apathetic to u. I think im actually pretty good at reading u. i read u correctly in 2 team mafias tho i think i told norwee u were town in last one so i guess wrong on that.

Anyways im not gonna shout down all reads on u but im def gonna challenge anything i don't think doesn't mean what a person thinks it means.
So we can fite it out all u want but im not being apathetic about u buddy.

There is a difference between this post

oh also can hydras try to sign off with which head makes the post? That would be helpful for me, a person who really doesn't work well with reading hydras.

If shea has drawn scum
It is not with a hydra
Low bud equity

eh, this is a post you make when you don't really like playing with hydras. i don't think one makes it less when partnered with a hydra.

And this post

Ok but actually tho in my experience a lot of the people who like to complain about the lol fluff posting of day 1 are scum. It's an easy entry for scum to make and has the bonus of actually being bad for town in that in general more discussion equals more potential signal even at the cost of more noise.

That is to say my vote was at least semi-serious.

Hmm. I disagree, but i find this post very towny.

Pretty sure this is NAI for Shea

And that difference is really important, it's reasoning.

[Thestatusquo]

There's definitely motivations for both town and scum shea to make this post.

what's the motivation for acknowledging that fact?

pedit: galactic take: i can do what i want.

Enjoying conversing with you?

[Thestatusquo]

There's definitely motivations for both town and scum shea to make this post.

what's the motivation for acknowledging that fact?

pedit: galactic take: i can do what i want.

Enjoying conversing with you?

you charmer.

i don't understand your post with the three quotes.

The first quote is what I am responding to. Your post and white fires post are me illustrating specifically the difference between people having reasonings on why something is a NAI post (yours) vs. what I think is borderline well poisoning (WFs)

The only reason I'm not voting WF is that I don't see a particularly scum motivation for well poisoning me specifically, so it falls more in the category of annoying me than anything else.

[Thestatusquo]

unwnd is totally stoned face for this. I joked if I should roll a d20 for a skill check on my night action... Didn't even get a "lol" out of them.

Anyways. I have a pretty questionable innate action, and even more questionably use SP skill.

My innate skill is I can check people's current HP. I checked Save The Dragons last night (random.org). They have 3 HP. Comparatively, I have 5 HP.

My other ability, which costs 2 SP is to check a target and see if they are using SP as well the same night. I didn't use it last night.

My "class," is called Sovereign. I'm royalty or something.

Why in the french fried fuck are we claiming this?

[Thestatusquo]

Shea I feel so unloved. I made you an entire post from the bottom of my heart and was repaid in crickets.

~Neuter

What would that be

[Thestatusquo]

do i have to pull out the ol' "don't claim unprompted in the closed theme" bat again? it's a little dusty but i will.

I mean, there's no point in doing it now. Besides, Toogeloo is probably town.

I actually kind of worry about it being the kind of thing Third Party might do in order to gain town cred for having a vaguely confirmable action without being threatening enough to draw a NK. It's the kind of play I would consider if I were a TP and had a vaguely confirmable role. Also, knowing HP in general seems like a role that would be more useful for scum than town.

All of that is a little tin foil hat though.

[Thestatusquo]

Shea I feel so unloved. I made you an entire post from the bottom of my heart and was repaid in crickets.

~Neuter

What would that be

109

Would it shock you to know I know all of that?

[Thestatusquo]

Doesn't seem like a grab for towncred, though, and also that's just kind of a weak action to have on a third party. Though I guess it depends what their wincon is.

I guess my question is: What is the town motivation for just claiming like that?

I feel like very often someone does something odd and everyone is like "oh, they did x odd thing they're less likely to be scum" without ever examining why town would be more likely to do X odd thing. It's definitely a mindset from town that I've exploited before as scum.

[Thestatusquo]

I'm not reading any of the nonsense that's been posted

VOTE: White Fire

Die Die Die Die Die Die

I think these pages have been much more worth reading than your normal first 7 pages of a large theme, for what its worth.

[Thestatusquo]

Shea do u not think the claim indicates anything or u just arguing that it didn't have town motivation

I'm saying I don't think the claim has any intrinsic town motivation for making it, and mainly I'm concerned with it being given a pass just because its a weird thing to do, which is something I think towns do a lot and its exploitable.

In terms of the actual ability claimed it seems to have more anti-town than pro-town utility to me but this game is intricate enough that I don't feel super comfortable just straight up thinking its more likely to be a scum role than a town role.

[Thestatusquo]

If we do some mass claim nonsense to try to break the game it will be an insult to unwnd and unfun.

As a mod of a lot of large themes I will not be participating in any mass claim nonsense.

If the setup is designed well it won't do anything, and indeed as a mod when I make setups I explicitly punish for being too loose with hidden information. I'm sure cabd is going to try because that's what cabd does but I'm not participating in it.

[Thestatusquo]

I'm sure cabd is going to try because that's what cabd does but I'm not participating in it.

Not at all.

I don't intend to encourage anyone else to go down this path.

It was a one time use thing, and it appears Toog used it.

I agree that unwnd likely designed roles that punish massclaim.


~Neuter

Fair enough, I have you pegged as the "break the setup guy."

Well, I guess its not fair because both you and jingle are here. I was assuming there would be at least some d1 attempt at it.

[Thestatusquo]

I still think they just got lucky there and actually the claiming hampered their ability to win way more than it helped.

[Thestatusquo]

wut

[Thestatusquo]

Joining this game was a bad idea.

[Thestatusquo]

Joining this game was a bad idea.

This is probably the best built game that will be run this year so if you miss out you're just gonna have a bad case of FOMO

not to toot my own horn but I think I make and run the best games personally.

[Thestatusquo]

ok but if they have info why do you want to draw attention to that fact.

Town TMI just as much as scum.

[Thestatusquo]

I did not see the lake thing. :/

[unwnd]

actually

@mod is there any way you can remove the people with no votes from the votecount? Having all those names there with no votes is just noise that makes it hard to focus in on where the votes are

I'm fine with that. Thank you for the suggestion.

[Thestatusquo]

So uh, the mod promised no lies in this game, yet they said not mafia joined the adventure but at the same time the op (24 players) is also accurate.

I'm confused.

I mean, if N_M ever gets here and starts posting we can ask him about that.

I think the implication of "X is in the game" and not showing up on the player list is that its some sort of NPC though.

[Thestatusquo]

Especially because currently she'd be killing me which I do not approve of.

[Thestatusquo]

hey cabd shoot me a 6 player scum team pls.

[Thestatusquo]

i'm either going to end up sheeping Sigmund all game or he's scum.

why cant both be true

[Thestatusquo]

hey cabd shoot me a 6 player scum team pls.

this feels more like a 8 or 9 wolf game personally

maybe there's multiple packs

sometimes I feel this way about you tbh.

[Thestatusquo]

hey cabd shoot me a 6 player scum team pls.

I've got more townreads than scumreads, so you'd be getting a list of who I think doesn't go in the pool of 6/7, that still okay?

~Neuter

I mean I'm not going to vote u for it

[Thestatusquo]

i'm either going to end up sheeping Sigmund all game or he's scum.

why cant both be true

i was going to say it's an and/or, but maybe either implies exclusive or?

regardless, both could be simultaneously true, certainly. the intent was simply i think this is a player i will get along with and will end up agreeing with, but it may also indicate he is scum and i'm interested in finding out which.

it's hard for me to put into words why I think this is a townie post. It's not that scum couldn't make a post like this, but I really like the logical progression from one word to the next here. It's like you weren't sure where you were going to end up at the end when you started writing it which is kind of a hard process to fake tonally as scum, I think because you're generally starting from a conclusion.

[Thestatusquo]

that's still not quite why, but its an approximation.

[Thestatusquo]

I am so confused

How is that speculation

Meet Anya. She's just like this.

[Thestatusquo]

that's still not quite why, but its an approximation.

i've been told i have a very towny tone when i try, because of how my thoughts naturally meander around in no real order, so it makes it sound more unplanned and less nefarious.

but it's like that when i'm scum, too.

I don't think thats as true as you think it is. I've seen you as scum.

[Thestatusquo]

Also the verbiage try there is interesting. Were you trying? If so, why?

[Thestatusquo]

I think whemestars post is not alignment indicative. I think scum can read the opening post just as well as town can and I don't see any particular reason why scum would be less likely to poke anya about her comment then town.

[Thestatusquo]

Yes, which is why I'm confused as to why pointing it out is a townie thing as opposed to a NAI thing. Or, in this case, actually, I think a not being familiar with Anya thing. I think if you go read any of her games you'll see this kind of nonsense is exactly par for the course for her.

[Thestatusquo]

I mean that with love, of course.

[Thestatusquo]

that's still not quite why, but its an approximation.

i've been told i have a very towny tone when i try, because of how my thoughts naturally meander around in no real order, so it makes it sound more unplanned and less nefarious.

but it's like that when i'm scum, too.

I don't think thats as true as you think it is. I've seen you as scum.

hmm, well that's an opinion too, and i agree that my games aren't the same, but i do get the commentary that my scum tone sounds towny, which can be unfortunate as both alignments sometimes when i would like to be townread and not one to be paranoid of.

Also the verbiage try there is interesting. Were you trying? If so, why?

trying in this case refers to posting while wanting to contribute to the game/do well instead of just phoning it in.

Sure, I get that you can sound townie as scum, but I don't think that's quite what I was picking up on which is why I'm having trouble explaining it. But anyway, you can go in the town bin for now and I can move on.

[Thestatusquo]

I think whemestars post is not alignment indicative. I think scum can read the opening post just as well as town can and I don't see any particular reason why scum would be less likely to poke anya about her comment then town.

Did anyone say it was?

y...yes?

[Thestatusquo]

Oh see, I got my people mixed up. It was you and cabd talking about toogs post, not people talking about your post.

[Thestatusquo]

Shea, tell them not to expect stuff from me D1 because of Among Us

I was going to say you seem to be trying more this game than other large theme day ones I've seen. What's up with that

[Thestatusquo]

That's a pretty decent answer.

I will see I've seen MC get run up almost every large theme I've seen him play because everyone is like why are you not doing anything d1 you're supposed to be good and that's kind of just how he plays d1 in larges

[Thestatusquo]

Meanwhile we have Anya and G who are good targets

Please expand on this more

[Thestatusquo]

I like disco Elysium

[Thestatusquo]

I like disco Elysium

Me too, I could gush about it for up to an hour! Are you scum?
Roll for initiative.

Nah. And honestly i found your characterization of me as not hunting as kind of nonsense. I've already got several reads I'm pretty happy about which is more than i was expecting by page 20.

[Thestatusquo]

I could see cabd scum but honestly I'm just so fucking bad at reading hydras that I'm probably not even going to try with those slots and hope they get sorted for me

[Thestatusquo]

I guess that means you deny the insinuation that you posting about food means you're scum? Okay.
But I certainly wasn't talking big, I was just mentioning something I remembered and sort of poked a the memory by posting it.

I was referring to the statement that i was less hunting and more trying to say opinions. I thought that was you.

If you made a food based read about me i missed it.

[Thestatusquo]

I've expressed my town read on chara and you can see my back and forth with it from earlier in the game. Not gonna look up the number because I'm on mobile and lazy. If you care you'll find it.

I think mc is town because i feel like he's much more in his town range than his scum range with the way he's interacting with the thread.

Got a couple more that are less concrete than those but they don't seem particularly helpful to talk about yet.

[Thestatusquo]

Kinda want to yeet notty into the sun but that doesn't have to do with his alignment.

[Thestatusquo]

I could see cabd scum but honestly I'm just so fucking bad at reading hydras that I'm probably not even going to try with those slots and hope they get sorted for me

Well, with the exception of about three posts, it's been all me so far.

So treat it as a cabd slot from today's posting, no need to fall back onto the hydra unreadable clause.

Ok but that's not going to be true long term.

[Thestatusquo]

I could see cabd scum but honestly I'm just so fucking bad at reading hydras that I'm probably not even going to try with those slots and hope they get sorted for me

Well, with the exception of about three posts, it's been all me so far.

So treat it as a cabd slot from today's posting, no need to fall back onto the hydra unreadable clause.

Ok but that's not going to be true long term.

This seems like a really disingenuous argument honestly.

[Thestatusquo]

I guess that means you deny the insinuation that you posting about food means you're scum? Okay.
But I certainly wasn't talking big, I was just mentioning something I remembered and sort of poked a the memory by posting it.

I was referring to the statement that i was less hunting and more trying to say opinions. I thought that was you.

If you made a food based read about me i missed it.

No, that was me. I was talking about notsci with the food stuff.
I thought he just posted about food as an ironic call back to the food tell meme that I think started with Nacho posting about food once or Nacho voted someone who posed abou food. I forgot. Anyway he food poser was scum and people didn't take the food tell seriously, but ironically took it seriously.

Yep, my t key needs help. To be fair, hat read of you shea, was based on up to page 6ish? I was on. Give or take.

Not a huge fan of you posting this read of me and then immediately backing off of it when i respond being like "oh don't worry bro i was only on P6"

[Thestatusquo]

When i scroll over to be able to read the words on the screen on mobile the header just says "cum."

I've been thinking about that a lot.

[Thestatusquo]

As a mod of a lot of large themes I will not be participating in any mass claim nonsense.

If the setup is designed well it won't do anything, and indeed as a mod when I make setups I explicitly punish for being too loose with hidden information. I'm sure cabd is going to try because that's what cabd does but I'm not participating in it.

I think this game can clearly be broken by massclaim. I have a short mission to the cafeteria and a long mission to communications, and there is absolutely no way Shea foresaw that I would post information given to me.

Oh wait, wrong game.

There's pretty much no utility to claiming aorn, but we will probably want to claim hps should we near XLO.

Listen here you little shit

[Thestatusquo]

A little aggressive and indirect is an accurate description of me

[Thestatusquo]

Why should I have any belief that you're telling the truth at any given point? More importantly, why does it matter?

What I'm struggling with here is that i don't see a lot of town interaction for being like so damn apologetic about a read. If you think it you say it and when i say like "hey i think this characterization of my play doesn't match what actually happened" it's weird to me to hear you immediately back track and be like oh it was only on page 6.

[Thestatusquo]

Motivation not interaction. Fuck mobile.

[Thestatusquo]

What the fuck am I even getting at? It's been a long week.
I'm saying that you're characterizing what I'm telling you up front. It's a shallow skepticism without much more than a presumption of guilt.

I have not the foggiest clue what this means tbh

[Thestatusquo]

vote option three

[Thestatusquo]

Yo, I'm not being apologetic or backpedaling. You said I was.
I was saying where this opinion was being formed and through what length of time. You denied it based on how you felt and acted on page 20. I was giving a possible explanation for the discrepancy. You expressed the opinion that it was convenient that I had read up to page 6 only "a likely story" because it gives me room to maneuver out of a point of conflict. But what I'm saying is, that, actually. I just read up to page 6 and that's where the formation of my opinions was coming from in that post.
and here we are.

Obviously you don't have to believe what someone says, I'm just telling you that it's true.

I don't know what to tell you man this is how mafia works. You do a thing. I view that thing through my lens of understanding and decide what it means. Because I'm not you and I can't be inside your head. I'm saying I felt that progression was odd and it felt conciliatory to me in a way that surprised me.

This whole interaction is weird. You did a thing. I told you how that thing looked to me and then you're like "But come on man I told you that wasn't the reason."

Like cool? So what? What do you want me to do with the information that you don't think the thing you did was scummy?

[Thestatusquo]

So more to the point, have you read further than page 6? How has your read evolved? Give me more here.

[Thestatusquo]

Well you might want to ISO mastina and then the next little bit after her last post.

[Thestatusquo]

didn't vote

Did... did you expect us to vote?

I mean I get you don't like KNOW us. But holy shit our vote is like defcon fire the nukes level of scum reads from us. We won't drop a vote this game until we're damn sure of it. I was, and still am, town reading Shea as of that post. (Lightly to start, more now) You mistaking my tone and read there is your own problem.

~Neuter

Is this how you usually play? Or is this the hydra thing?

[Thestatusquo]

I'm just trying to get my hyper post on before I basically can't play at all the next few days and then have to go phone only until thursday

[Thestatusquo]

Yo, I'm not being apologetic or backpedaling. You said I was.
I was saying where this opinion was being formed and through what length of time. You denied it based on how you felt and acted on page 20. I was giving a possible explanation for the discrepancy. You expressed the opinion that it was convenient that I had read up to page 6 only "a likely story" because it gives me room to maneuver out of a point of conflict. But what I'm saying is, that, actually. I just read up to page 6 and that's where the formation of my opinions was coming from in that post.
and here we are.

Obviously you don't have to believe what someone says, I'm just telling you that it's true.

I don't know what to tell you man this is how mafia works. You do a thing. I view that thing through my lens of understanding and decide what it means. Because I'm not you and I can't be inside your head. I'm saying I felt that progression was odd and it felt conciliatory to me in a way that surprised me.

This whole interaction is weird. You did a thing. I told you how that thing looked to me and then you're like "But come on man I told you that wasn't the reason."

Like cool? So what? What do you want me to do with the information that you don't think the thing you did was scummy?

I'm not sure if this is a serious question. Surely you've characterized people before and they've just denied your characterization. I called your skepticism shallow because it didn't seem to have much of a layer of investigation. No "why" just an immediate "This seems scummy" without curiosity, but i'm geting the feeling we just have different mindsets.
I would like to state that I think it's in a town player's interest to want to know which players are telling the truth and which aren't, I'm just letting you know that your characterization is incorrect.

Why do you think I've had a back and forth with you over like 10 posts instead of just voting you if I'm not trying to figure out what your whole deal is. And this question was rhetorical but the one I asked you in the post immediately after it was not and I would like an answer please.

[Thestatusquo]

Further to the point, why do you think I directed the statement "I don't like how you did this" towards you conversationally instead of towards others? Do you think I make a habit of saying things like that to people with no purpose or do you think maybe its possible that I was trying to figure you out by your response?

[Thestatusquo]

every fucking time notty posts I just see a blank space and I'm like why is notty just posting a quote with no context and honestly its driving me fucking bonkers.

[Thestatusquo]

I still don't quite understand bells expectation of me substitute his explanation of his actions for my own observation of them but his frustration at not being able to get me to do so seems sincere.

[Thestatusquo]

VOTE: No Fade for now.
I'll change it when I actually read the thread.

Why?

[Thestatusquo]

Because I didn't want to unvote but I also want my vote to reflect the fact that I'm not the same as jjh.

I fundamentally don't understand this so I'm going to poke at it a little more.

Why didn't you want to unvote?

Why are you concerned with being seen as the same as the person you replaced?

[Thestatusquo]

I think the thread is mostly worth reading. Its not very fluffy. Still effort, tho.

[Thestatusquo]

Now that you realized who just got here, wolves may start shitting their pants and the rest may continue posting.

going back to see if I can find the "tsq RVS wagon" that bingle is talking about which I couldn't at all remember and yeah I guess I did have three votes on me at one point

but anyway I found this post and honestly I think its pretty insulting that guillotina thinks I can't shit my pants and post at the same time regardless of alignment.

[Thestatusquo]

This is one of the "not as concrete reads" I alluded to earlier. I don't get good vibes from FB.

[Thestatusquo]

This is one of the "not as concrete reads" I alluded to earlier. I don't get good vibes from FB.

Again, the hydra thing, but I feel like almost every post so far has been FB and not shiro. Or at least I read them all in my head in a more FB tone of voice.

Did I mention I fucking hate hydras?

[Thestatusquo]

No, townies will consider all things put on the table, not make up a narrative out of thin air and push people with an agenda.

I think townies make things up out of thin air and push people with agendas like literally all the time.

[Thestatusquo]

I like Katniss here
He will lead us to a win
I do believe it.

ok what in the fresh boiling fuck does this mean.

[Thestatusquo]

vote bingle with me Shea?

[Thestatusquo]

vote bingle with me Shea?

So that everyone can get immensely frustrated and I can get nightkilled, obviously.

Eh i was hoping for something a little more than this

[Thestatusquo]

Idk like a day cop guilty or something

[Thestatusquo]

Idk like a day cop guilty or something

you realize you quoted jingle right

nope lmao

[Thestatusquo]

is cabd usually this thirsty for validation

[Thestatusquo]

No, townies will consider all things put on the table, not make up a narrative out of thin air and push people with an agenda.

I think townies make things up out of thin air and push people with agendas like literally all the time.

Townies may do so to some extent, but not in the same way wolves do.

Titus agenda seeks to destroy me, not to solve me.

this seems mildly overstated.

[Thestatusquo]

This morph thing with LLD seems way too involved to be pocketing on their part at this point and while I don't love the whole "effort == town" thing because its pretty easily exploited, it seems to me like we've gone beyond the point where morph would keep doing this as scum.

[Thestatusquo]

*looks at my join date*

Yes I think so.

[Thestatusquo]

Have you played with titus before?

Titus literally has the most mafia posts of any active player, if be surprised if there is anyone in this game that hasn't player with her

just give noraa a few more months.

[Thestatusquo]

I think LLD is scum with bingle by the way and people giving her a pass a weirding me out too

I asked you for more clarity in the first part of that and I don't think I got an answer.

[Thestatusquo]

I think LLD is scum with bingle by the way and people giving her a pass a weirding me out too

I asked you for more clarity in the first part of that and I don't think I got an answer.

I did but you quoted jingle instead lol

I just gave a vague answer though because I wanted a jingle wagon before saying that, but no one wanted to join so here we are

Isn't this kind of like trying to put on pants by shoving your ass in first?

[Thestatusquo]

Ah I see. I guess what I'm missing here is the connection. Like I understand wanting to see if X player joins a wagon on Y player if you think they could potentially both be scum, I'm just missing the part where you explain why you think they're potentially both scum.

[Thestatusquo]

I'm not sure I did stuff D1 in Death Curse either tbh

I found you very good while observing your day one. Maybe those in the game felt otherwise but they're not chiming in.

Try for us.

Hmm, stroking my ego? It's working (but I think everyone speccing just called us trash for not killing Noraa D1 that game)

Bell is NAI posting but it's a good push because of 344 suggesting he is not going to go back and interact with any content from the first ~10 pages

Dunn voting for Flea seems off to me

271 from Fark felt genuine to me

LLD is null to me, and I'm not sure what to make of Shea trying to generate content off her posts, but it feels towny to me?

I can't remember if notscience was that alt I played with a couple times, haven't gathered anything from his posts

Nothing else stuck out to me

scummy post

271 from Fark felt genuine to me

271 is completely pointless

Feels like the sort of thing you'd put in a scum pt if you had one

I don't believe that this is a real read you have

These posts aren't that deep.

My point is that I think you are underselling your knowledge of game state and I think you gained that knowledge of the game state through a scum pt.

Do you really think thats what goes on in scum PTs?

In my experience they're mostly dead with like 10 posts every night phase.

Hell, go read my scum PT from team mafia, I believe we said like 10 total words to each other the first few days. Like idk if I buy that you really believe that scum PTs are places where people are cranking out reads and cliffnotes for their teammates because I just don't think I've ever seen that happen?

[Thestatusquo]

Guillotina is like hyyyyyyper paranoid. Haven't decided whether I think its just because he thinks people care way more about past games than they do or if its overdefensive or what but would appreciate any guidance here because the tonality is WAY over the top and its pinging the crap out of me.

[Thestatusquo]

Eh fuck it VOTE: guillotina

Guidance can come later.

[Thestatusquo]

the tonality is WAY over the top and its pinging the crap out of me.

Welcome to Guillotina's baseline.

gdi

[Thestatusquo]

what the fuck is happening i feel like i'm in bizzaro world

where i'm being told that i know more than i actually do
that i'm angry when i'm not


what is happening

I think he means historically speaking, i.e. you tend to get angry when pushed.

And Lexi love you though I do that is not an inaccurate assessment.

[Thestatusquo]

I don't think MC was claiming you were angry right now. Could be wrong.

[Thestatusquo]

Im getting really mad with these stupid votes on me.

They feel like they are designed to force me into having to defend myself instead of game solving and that is not fun.

Mine is designed to eliminate you because I think you might be scum actually.

[Thestatusquo]

Im getting really mad with these stupid votes on me.

They feel like they are designed to force me into having to defend myself instead of game solving and that is not fun.

Mine is designed to eliminate you because I think you might be scum actually.

Why you think im scum? Cause the reason you gave along with your vote is not valid and reachy.

Scum so far

Titus
Sigmund
TheStatusquo

Nah my reasoning is fine.

[Thestatusquo]

Like frankly thanks for sharing your opinion on the subject but I don't really care what you think about it if I'm being completely honest.

[Thestatusquo]

Nah if you'll flip town I'll feel fine because mafia is a probabilistic game and I'll use your wagon to find associations with other players and figure it out from there.

[Thestatusquo]

I didn't realize that was a mom alt. That's good to know.

[Thestatusquo]

You're missing three layups from your reads, Titus. And that's excluding myself, even.

Morph, I know you mentioned my real life voice but I am not recognizing you at the moment.

@G, You have time. I don't expect you to be right or wrong but I expect something beyond these people FoS me so scum. I am not even voting you despite you having a large wagon for awhile. I can plead with you and give you an opportunity but I can't give you the answers.

Yep. We got pulled over in your car on the way from the train station that one time!~

Ahh the wonders of Titus meet.

I'm wanting to do it again, but this time rent an airbnb

I have very similar thoughts.

[Thestatusquo]

VOTE: artemiana

[Thestatusquo]

My anya vote isn't doing anything.

VOTE: Arte

what was your anya vote based off of, if you explained it I missed it.

[Thestatusquo]

VOTE: NotMafia

kill all robot alien monster goats

Look at their iso to this point. This post particularly pinged but there's no solving. Some fluff is ok but we're past fluff.

ok but a) I feel like this is literally just what anya does and b) you have played with anya and you should know that? She just enjoys posting nonsense. There's some substance mixed in but you have to wade through layers of abstraction to find it.

There doesn't seem like much here that is outside of that range to me?

[Thestatusquo]

VOTE: NotMafia

kill all robot alien monster goats

Look at their iso to this point. This post particularly pinged but there's no solving. Some fluff is ok but we're past fluff.

ok but a) I feel like this is literally just what anya does and b) you have played with anya and you should know that? She just enjoys posting nonsense. There's some substance mixed in but you have to wade through layers of abstraction to find it.

There doesn't seem like much here that is outside of that range to me?

Like these posts:

VOTE: farkran

he feels very disinterested but is forcing himself to post random thoughts bc he has a yggdrawolf reputation to uphold

guillotina ircher flea bell are my boulders

Dunnstral too for spotting Mastina's shoe laces were tied i think wolves who don't own shoes at all would be less likely to notice

don't like whemestar's lack of care for finding tickets after parking on me

Like these three posts imo have expressed meaningful thoughts about the game, even if they're weirded absurdly, and that seems like a fairly normal level of anya signal:noise for me.

Do you disaree? If so, why?

The more I think about it the more I really don't like this push from titus because I feel like she should really know this?

VOTE: NotMafia

kill all robot alien monster goats

Look at their iso to this point. This post particularly pinged but there's no solving. Some fluff is ok but we're past fluff.

ok but a) I feel like this is literally just what anya does and b) you have played with anya and you should know that? She just enjoys posting nonsense. There's some substance mixed in but you have to wade through layers of abstraction to find it.

There doesn't seem like much here that is outside of that range to me?

I don't particularly care for meta and I'm not guessing what Anya's content is.

This post is a cop out. There's "I don't like meta as a reason to lock town or lock someone" and then theres "actively ignoring information you have"

[Thestatusquo]

I think you're missing my point. You voting Anya isn't logical even if i believe what you just said in your last post.

The logical conclusion for a townie to "i know this player posts a lot of fluff as either alignment and i don't have the ability to sort through it" isn't "therefore they are scum."

It's "therefore i will solve elsewhere."

Even if i buy the idea that the mindset you're espousing is townie to begin with, which i don't think i agree with anyway, i still don't think it would lead town!you to vote Anya.

And i see a lot of reasons why scum!Titus would think pushing Anya is good.

[Thestatusquo]

Because I'm trying to sort you. Why should you moving on change what my reaction to your actions is?

[Thestatusquo]

This defense is just really bad.

VOTE: Titus

[Thestatusquo]

So you think I'm voting you too distract from wagons instead of because i think your play is scummy?

I'll be honest, it's impressive that you have come up with a much more creative way to omgus someone than most.

Pedit: i did actually. I said even if i agree with your statement that you don't have the ability to sort Anya's signal from noise it doesn't make sense for you to vote them. It was basically my whole argument.

You can disagree with that argument but saying i didn't consider it is a huge misrep

[Thestatusquo]

Frankly? What's the fun of a social deduction game if the other team rolls over and dies for you. It's a hollow victory, no?

Not really what I meant, although I see that point. I’m more looking at the player list and wondering why, given said list you’re more worried that there aren’t movers and shakers on the scum team than that there are and you aren’t seeing them.

I have fairly solid townreads on a majority of the movers and shakers I personally would panic about, and I just came off a game where being paranoid about handing out townreads and instead sitting by burned me and my town team.

How bad was the burn?

Extreme, actually.

It was soulcrushingly miserable. Mod randomly did a "tehehehehe by the way the town miller exists but there are no town cops oh yeah and there's a neighborhood but both memebrs are mafia traitors that don't know about each other" shit and we tried to mechsolve instead of reads-solve. It was a disaster.

This is just extremely good setup design.

[Thestatusquo]

As for what Shea is stating to be true, I'm not disputing it at all. I just don’t find it town.

This is really funny at this point. The issue isn't that you don't find it town. The issue is that you have no reason to find it to be scum either.

[Thestatusquo]

Sidebar-

Titus, I can vouch that what Shea is stating about Anya is true. I just came out of a large normal having the exact same issues you're currently going through with the posting. It was my first time playing with her.

Because I'm trying to sort you. Why should you moving on change what my reaction to your actions is?

The concern is that you're shifting the context away from Atre/Whemestar, which are good sorting wagons. I am trying to sort whether that's coincidence or genuine.

Hm.

Why are Atre/Wheme better sorting wagons as dueling wagons than either of them and you?

From my perspective, I already know my own alignment. I have a high tendancy to OMGUS. They also happened organically.

From an objective perspective (removing play), any wagons are good for sorting.

I feel like I am onto something and that's why the sudden pressure.

If you think i pressure people based on wagons as either alignment you are sorely mistaken.

[Thestatusquo]

I have no problem with the atre wheme wagons for what it's worth. I just think Titus is scum here.

[Thestatusquo]

I think the idea of people being "scared" of other users is kind of nonsense in general.

I'm scared of roughly three people in the history of this site and none of them are in the game.

[Thestatusquo]

Strong disagree. Early game may not be your strongest but you can excel at it, and scarily so sometimes.

Flea im trying to not get mischopped here, i mean thank you for your admiration and the cred and possibly the pocket there, but scum have to end up believing that im all bark and no bite! Or they will look for ways to mischop me or night kill me.

Im on a road trip until this Tuesday, i will be reading most of the times with few commentary if needed but dont expect high activity from me until then.

I think that you are vastly overestimating how much scum care about you/are playing with you in mind specifically.

[Thestatusquo]

I think the key to this game is gonna be preventing scum from pivoting from the "eliminate the easy marks" stage to the "expand the scum pool with paranoia and setup spec" second stage.

I also think we can be more choosy about which LHF we elim as to not let phase one play out completely.

I agree with you.

I think my current play of allowing Wheme and Arte wagons to compete and see where people land (one one of them, or on netiher) will give me a good sense of what people are trying to do.

Where do you want me to look?

What do you make of NDmath and STD? Those are the other two with low post counts that I could see a flashwagon popping up on.

Haven't even seen NDMath remotely, but STD looks EXACTLY like they did in DEFCON, where they were town.

I'd be willing to wager an okay amount of money STD is town from the.... 3 posts i've seen them make? lol

This analysis seems weirdly incomplete. Can you contrast this with an std scum game?

[Thestatusquo]

I think the key to this game is gonna be preventing scum from pivoting from the "eliminate the easy marks" stage to the "expand the scum pool with paranoia and setup spec" second stage.

I also think we can be more choosy about which LHF we elim as to not let phase one play out completely.

I agree with you.

I think my current play of allowing Wheme and Arte wagons to compete and see where people land (one one of them, or on netiher) will give me a good sense of what people are trying to do.

Where do you want me to look?

What do you make of NDmath and STD? Those are the other two with low post counts that I could see a flashwagon popping up on.

Haven't even seen NDMath remotely, but STD looks EXACTLY like they did in DEFCON, where they were town.

I'd be willing to wager an okay amount of money STD is town from the.... 3 posts i've seen them make? lol

This analysis seems weirdly incomplete. Can you contrast this with an std scum game?

I can't off the top of my head, and I generally don't rely on meta.

It's just that DEFCON was literally JUST ended and STD was suspected for EXACTLY this and has done NOTHING to change it.

The only other experience I have is IRL experience with STD and all that informs me is that STD is talented enough to observe and change.

so I just feel very confident that if they were scum they would have behaved differently

There's like 3 different weirdly contradictory things going on here and I'm not loving it.

[Thestatusquo]

20. Thestatusquo - I want to say town but keeps defending scum

The more Titus posts things like this the more solid my scum reads becomes. Titus doesn't know who the scum are if she's town. So how can I defend them? Also what scum have i defended even if we assume her reads are correct? Anya? She only has them at lean scum and i defended her because Titus attack is just obviously incorrect on face. The only other 2 people she lists as scum are ND who I'm pretty sure i don't have a single thought about because they've basically been absent and Arte? I literally voted them.

This read list is nonsense. We don't have any confidence other than "lean scum" but somehow that's enough confidence to shade me by claiming I'm defending scum?

[Thestatusquo]

As always, tiers are divided, but placement within tiers is not meaningful.

Would self vote before voting

Toogeloo
Bell

Pretty Darn Town

White Fire (Shiro/Firebringer)
Lady Lambdadelta
Chara
Thestatusquo
notscience
MURDERCAT

Good Vibes, Inc.

Titus
Flea the Magician

Above Null, Below Our Hearts

Dunnstral
Something_Smart
Save the Dragons
Guillotina

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~THE LINE OF DAY ONE VOTING WILLINGNESS~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Priority to Sort

Anya
Ircher (jjh927)
Artemiana
Sigmund
NDMath
Farkran

Icky

WhemeStar
Bingle

Can you break down the following for me:

1) The difference between the whemestar and aremiana slots in your mind. Why is one a priority sort while the other is icky? What is causing that difference in read tiers?
2) The bell locktown read
3) The bingle scum read

[Thestatusquo]

I think the idea of people being "scared" of other users is kind of nonsense in general.

I'm scared of roughly three people in the history of this site and none of them are in the game.

I guess the idea of being scared to other users is not so much of a nonsense then. Lol

I dont fear anyone but i respect several players here, i dont take them lightly.

nah I think its fair to say that if I've played with literally thousands of players on this site and only 3 of them scare me that the concept of "people being scared of other players." is unlikely to be a significant driver of game events.

[Thestatusquo]

I'm sad no one asked me my fears. They are Ellibereth Llamarble and Nachomamma.

[Thestatusquo]

But you are the King
Of the entire Savannah
You must have no fears.

Maybe mufasa would have still been alive if he had more fear.

[Thestatusquo]

I still don't know what a 2020 scum team means. Is this an ok boomer moment or what

[Thestatusquo]

I don't really understand why you would think scumwheme would be less capable of seeing and taking the layups than townwheme?

[Thestatusquo]

As scum i love making firm town reads. Why would scum wheme do the opposite?

[Thestatusquo]

Also has shiro posted at all? Every post feels like firebringer.

[Thestatusquo]

TSQ do you townread me?

Not really, no. I don't think you've done much of consequence. But i don't agree with morphs logic about you.

[Thestatusquo]

Awkward

[Thestatusquo]

Idk how many votes you had on you but it feels like you pulled the trigger on that a little early.

[Thestatusquo]

Now can we please
For us to go far
Finally go and all
Type out VOTE: whemestar

Or, alternately, consider Titus.

[Thestatusquo]

I think std had the worst vote in the bingle wagon

Also don't worry i won't have internet for a week starting tomorrow.

[Thestatusquo]

I'm still interested in voting Arte but I'm also vaguely interested in voting std and I'm still waiting for anyone to give me any reason to suspect Titus is town.

[Thestatusquo]

I would say this game suffers from a lack of sheep. Not in the sense that there's too many people trying to lead but more in the sense that no one is following and they're not proposing alternate ideas either.

[Thestatusquo]

I would say this game suffers from a lack of sheep. Not in the sense that there's too many people trying to lead but more in the sense that no one is following and they're not proposing alternate ideas either.

I am a great sheep i just dont have a lock town read

Well we literally have a confirmed town player so

[Thestatusquo]

unlucky

[Thestatusquo]

Shea... snows me. I don't think I ever don't tr shea before endgame, and even in TM I arrived at scum shea because I was hypertunneled on a townie who couldn't be scum with anyone else

D'awww.

[Thestatusquo]

The key to reading me is I'm actually really bad at town so if my reads are bad it means I'm probably town but if i end up on the tail end of some scum wagons I'm probably scum.

[Thestatusquo]

The key to reading me is I'm actually really bad at town so if my reads are bad it means I'm probably town but if i end up on the tail end of some scum wagons I'm probably scum.

This is now worthless because i have demonstrated awareness of it.

Welcome to metagaming with professor Shea

[Thestatusquo]

I want to poke more at std and why people think he's town. I haven't really seen anything outside his scum range imo and i didn't like his particular positioning on the bingle wagon.

[Thestatusquo]

@ffery, I feel my reads are pretty accurate this game. That being said, I feel you're town too. I don't want to get in your way, but I'd like to hasten the process of you getting onto my scumreads rather than someone like Flea.

Anya, A and NDMath are all excellent votes. G is a decent compromise. Their Bingle thing felt faked but I am all to aware of cross game biases.

What about it felt fake? (None of it was it).

You were quoting posts after Bingle was revealed to be an IC and then claiming not to know.

See i like this. I need to think through this because i like both Titus and guillotina for scum so it's weird to see them interact like this and i agree with Titus point here.

[Thestatusquo]

Of course Titus has spent the whole game vaguely shading guillotina and then voting literally anyone else.

[Thestatusquo]

Spoiler: Ircher Post

It's an easy entry for scum to make and has the bonus of actually being bad for town in that in general more discussion equals more potential signal even at the cost of more noise.

This is actually false. It's not the amount of signal that matters, it's the

ratio

of signal to noise that matters. That's not to say absolute amount of signal doesn't matter, but as the number of posts increase, the marginal benefit of even more posts slowly decreases over time. Eventually, it becomes so minuscule that it is either not worth it or actually harmful to the direction of the game.

(That said, I don't disagree with your vote and read on LLD here.)

Legitimately, I think we should leave LLD to be solved by scum. There's likely a SK which means she's probably not going to endgame and even if she is scum getting that lim is going to be a gigantic PITA. If we just assume she's town that should save me a lot of effort.

What kind of attitude of this? I don't think we should be giving anyone a free D1 pass.

This wasn't a D1 strategy. This is a until we flip a third party strategy.

This is even worse! Why are you so sure scum will kill LLD, especially if she is scum?

I have two by now-
Shining, sparkling shows of town
The ball’s in your court.

Let me guess... You have to post in Haikus all game as a post restriction? Or is this a self-imposed one for fun?
---
Page 4 is almost pure fluff...
---

Not to be all LAMIST but solve me, don't be apathetic about it. Look into the why of my posts.

You seem quite defensive for how early in the game it is (as of when you made this post).

oh also can hydras try to sign off with which head makes the post? That would be helpful for me, a person who really doesn't work well with reading hydras.

Wait which slots are hydras? ...Oh morph and White Fire. I should read more carefully.

Would I scum read some random person with a join date of yesterday for stating it? Possibly.

Correct me if I am wrong, but if this is the case, why are you going after Shea so aggressively for his read. Early game reads don't have to be air-tight; on the contrary, even minor quibbles are valid reasons for votes.

but "why" did shea make it? is it perhaps because he's annoyed he can't get the towncred for the towny-shea posting? hm hm hm? it's okay though, i understand. i do the same thing as scum.

Redacted.

Odds are in my favor ur town. U get scumread too often in games and i liked ur response.
Plus i think it would be amusing to see if i can get u paranoid.

Most of this is weak reasoning, but I actually think this comes from town more often than scum.

Hot take: Chara is scum.

Good take.

At bottom of 124. Will try to read another 5 or so pages tomorrow.

I dislike pretty much all of this post but especially the characterizaiton as our taking Shea to task as "agressive" when there was no vote or even intent to vote.

Also hate insisting on playing entirely on the past for multiple IRL game days. My town-ircher model I think uses new data to have a more informed and new fresh take on the early game when catching up, as to bring something new to the table.

Do you think its fair to say that perhaps "whether or not you voted" is a strange line for you to use for "aggression" when you yourself have said that you vote infrequently and mostly when very sure?

I agree that the post wasn't aggressive and more took it as you trying to give me context, but at the same time this is the second time you've made an argument that I would describe as kind of disingenuous.

[Thestatusquo]

First of all i think you saying I'm throwing shade is a misrep. I'm poking at places that look weird to me. This is what I do.

I'm not a huge town read person generally speaking but off the top of my head without much reflection:

i think murder is town.
I think chara is town.
I'm vaguely paranoid of toog but i think they're town.
I felt bingle was pretty town before they confirmed themself.

I lean town on morph

Most other people are in various states of null with leans in either direction and I'm poking on those people most of all.

[Thestatusquo]

Spoiler: Ircher Post

It's an easy entry for scum to make and has the bonus of actually being bad for town in that in general more discussion equals more potential signal even at the cost of more noise.

This is actually false. It's not the amount of signal that matters, it's the

ratio

of signal to noise that matters. That's not to say absolute amount of signal doesn't matter, but as the number of posts increase, the marginal benefit of even more posts slowly decreases over time. Eventually, it becomes so minuscule that it is either not worth it or actually harmful to the direction of the game.

(That said, I don't disagree with your vote and read on LLD here.)

Legitimately, I think we should leave LLD to be solved by scum. There's likely a SK which means she's probably not going to endgame and even if she is scum getting that lim is going to be a gigantic PITA. If we just assume she's town that should save me a lot of effort.

What kind of attitude of this? I don't think we should be giving anyone a free D1 pass.

This wasn't a D1 strategy. This is a until we flip a third party strategy.

This is even worse! Why are you so sure scum will kill LLD, especially if she is scum?

I have two by now-
Shining, sparkling shows of town
The ball’s in your court.

Let me guess... You have to post in Haikus all game as a post restriction? Or is this a self-imposed one for fun?
---
Page 4 is almost pure fluff...
---

Not to be all LAMIST but solve me, don't be apathetic about it. Look into the why of my posts.

You seem quite defensive for how early in the game it is (as of when you made this post).

oh also can hydras try to sign off with which head makes the post? That would be helpful for me, a person who really doesn't work well with reading hydras.

Wait which slots are hydras? ...Oh morph and White Fire. I should read more carefully.

Would I scum read some random person with a join date of yesterday for stating it? Possibly.

Correct me if I am wrong, but if this is the case, why are you going after Shea so aggressively for his read. Early game reads don't have to be air-tight; on the contrary, even minor quibbles are valid reasons for votes.

but "why" did shea make it? is it perhaps because he's annoyed he can't get the towncred for the towny-shea posting? hm hm hm? it's okay though, i understand. i do the same thing as scum.

Redacted.

Odds are in my favor ur town. U get scumread too often in games and i liked ur response.
Plus i think it would be amusing to see if i can get u paranoid.

Most of this is weak reasoning, but I actually think this comes from town more often than scum.

Hot take: Chara is scum.

Good take.

At bottom of 124. Will try to read another 5 or so pages tomorrow.

I dislike pretty much all of this post but especially the characterizaiton as our taking Shea to task as "agressive" when there was no vote or even intent to vote.

Also hate insisting on playing entirely on the past for multiple IRL game days. My town-ircher model I think uses new data to have a more informed and new fresh take on the early game when catching up, as to bring something new to the table.

Do you think its fair to say that perhaps "whether or not you voted" is a strange line for you to use for "aggression" when you yourself have said that you vote infrequently and mostly when very sure?

I agree that the post wasn't aggressive and more took it as you trying to give me context, but at the same time this is the second time you've made an argument that I would describe as kind of disingenuous.

Agree to disagree line be here, I guess. I get really annoyed when people apply emotional tags like "aggressive" when I was going out of my way to be extremely passive and patient epxlainy.

I'm a bit on the sideline of this convo, but just because we don't put votes down early and often does not mean that we're shy about making our thoughts known about players. Far from it.

You can usually see my incoming vote from orbit well in advance of it landing.

Yes I agree. The specific question I'm asking was basically why are you saying you weren't aggressive because you didn't vote when you don't vote that much. In fact, this post is basically what I'm saying. You can definitely be aggressive without voting.

In this case you weren't being aggressive but I just found it odd that "we didn't vote" was the specific line of defense here.

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I can VOTE: richer

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TSQ ould you talk about why you think Chara is town?

Post 293 and the resulting exchange mostly.

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I think i can tell which is cabd because i don't think cabd would call me taw. He's been in my house too many times.

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*tsq

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At bottom of 124. Will try to read another 5 or so pages tomorrow.

absolutely wild way to play this game. you'll be playing in the present two weeks after the game is over.

The Mastina Scum Strategy

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I do not think shiro is like beeboy.

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Also maybe this is a weird read but I feel like maybe FB would be more engaged here as scum.

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Also maybe this is a weird read but I feel like maybe FB would be more engaged here as scum.

have u read any of my scum games before

Many moons ago.

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I think the “lion”
Had a better response for
The future events

When you compare to
Ircher’s jumping end to start
Which reads fake as fuck

is this referring to shea or..?

I think it refers to me but as to what it means I have not the foggiest bottom.

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The key to reading me is I'm actually really bad at town so if my reads are bad it means I'm probably town but if i end up on the tail end of some scum wagons I'm probably scum.

i go back and forth between finding shea to be an overwhelming mood and then just being sure he is scum who's doing a great job because he happens to keep reminding me of scum Chara. but that is kind of insane so i'll simply ask shea to make worse posts so he can be townread.
this is not an example of shea acting like scum Chara, this is just an example of shea being relatable.

i like Sigmund less than i did, but this morning seems so much farther away than it actually is and perhaps he will return with stuff i like again. still like Guillotina, the second look at his ISO has me feeling better about the read.

I can't believe you'd coach me so brazenly in thread.

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@Mod I believe I voted ircher.

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Is guillotina off the table for you now then?

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good scum don't always go for low hanging fruit.

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This exchange is extremely town from Bell.

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He should have been more specific about what he wanted when he asked me to name 3 players that weren't playing meh this game then.

This post in particular I'd eat my hat if it came from scum.

This hat.

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i just think it's strange that your opinion is "i think it's weird that Math and Chara haven't been wagoned, so they might be scum for it". at least that is my impression of your opinion. i don't think there's been enough time in this game to come to that particular conclusion, and we've been playing very differently. but it seems like i've misunderstood and you were just listing two scumreads? my hackles went up from the wording, yes.

i liked Wheme's 1365. not sure why he is now confident enough to place a vote on White Fire, i'd like to know what he's seeing there.

pedit: do you have experience with Bell, shea?

I've modded a couple games that Bell was in, I think. I don't think I've played with him directly but I played team mafia and followed his game.

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That's why I focused on the thing I found conciliatory before. The times I've seen caught scum Bell it kind of seemed to me like he was trying to please everyone and not make waves. This post is the literal opposite of that and seems pretty organic in tone i.e. I would be surprised if it were a conscious decision as scum to try to make me feel like he wasn't doing a thing that he doesn't even really know I think he sometimes does as scum.

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Also my movers canceled on me literally 20 minutes before my move was scheduled so I have spent a frantic day desperately trying to find someone to move my stuff before my lease is over and I have no more legal right to be here.

I have succeeded but I just want everyone to know that today took several days off my life.

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That's why I focused on the thing I found conciliatory before. The times I've seen caught scum Bell it kind of seemed to me like he was trying to please everyone and not make waves. This post is the literal opposite of that and seems pretty organic in tone i.e. I would be surprised if it were a conscious decision as scum to try to make me feel like he wasn't doing a thing that he doesn't even really know I think he sometimes does as scum.

I like this post because I was concerned you were just attacking and only defending scum.

I'm honestly pretty shocked that you think i would play that way as scum even if that was an accurate description of my play.

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Anything important for me to know about in the last 20ish pages that appeared in the 30ish hours since my last post?

If I tell you would it mean you won't do another catch up post where you complement me repeatedly?

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Oh no I was just suggesting that I don't want to do anything that would endanger that happening more often.

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That's why I focused on the thing I found conciliatory before. The times I've seen caught scum Bell it kind of seemed to me like he was trying to please everyone and not make waves. This post is the literal opposite of that and seems pretty organic in tone i.e. I would be surprised if it were a conscious decision as scum to try to make me feel like he wasn't doing a thing that he doesn't even really know I think he sometimes does as scum.

I like this post because I was concerned you were just attacking and only defending scum.

I'm honestly pretty shocked that you think i would play that way as scum even if that was an accurate description of my play.

I judge everyone (or try to) by the same standard. Does this player hurt town? If so, what is their motivation. Your reluctance to call people town has been worrying me as town should be blocking to win.

I just don't think I've been refusing to call people town. I think that's just straight up not a fair or correct statement about my play this game.

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That's why I focused on the thing I found conciliatory before. The times I've seen caught scum Bell it kind of seemed to me like he was trying to please everyone and not make waves. This post is the literal opposite of that and seems pretty organic in tone i.e. I would be surprised if it were a conscious decision as scum to try to make me feel like he wasn't doing a thing that he doesn't even really know I think he sometimes does as scum.

I like this post because I was concerned you were just attacking and only defending scum.

I'm honestly pretty shocked that you think i would play that way as scum even if that was an accurate description of my play.

I judge everyone (or try to) by the same standard. Does this player hurt town? If so, what is their motivation. Your reluctance to call people town has been worrying me as town should be blocking to win.

I just don't think I've been refusing to call people town. I think that's just straight up not a fair or correct statement about my play this game.

A lot of your posts have been attacking people for being scum suspects then dropping it. I'm not saying you're refusing to do so. I just don’t see you working to find a town core, but when you occasionally do post that some people are town, I go back and doubt.

We need to solidify town then get rid of everyone else.

I think you and I approach finding scum in very different ways. Attacking people and then dropping it is how I read people.

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You don't see me looking to build a town core because fundamentally that is just not how I approach scum hunting and never has been.

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I think PoE is generally a fundamentally flawed way to find scum before the late game. It requires us to make so many assumptions without reasonable justifications behind them to even begin to have a useful model for making predictions, and even then I think that those flawed assumptions mean you're no more likely than random to be correct with those predictions.

I'd rather just fight people and see how they squirm.

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So I guess my point is if you're expecting me to be building this list of town reads which I'm going to then use to figure out who I should be scum reading I'm just never going to do that. Never have never will. All it does is compound your errors when you make them.

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nah.

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it's literally ass backwards.

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You are a towel
But different strokes for the
Different folks, right?

sure, I don't begrudge titus her methods though I disagree with them, what's wild to me is she seems to think that anyone who disagrees with her on said methods is scum.

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In order to claim something is tmi you might want to say what was tmi and why it's tmi

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Scum also don't know the setup though?

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Like yeah I get that scum have more info than town but that doesn't mean they know what the setup is?

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reads:
titus town
morph the cat very likely town
toog likely town
chara scum

anyways going back to work cya laterzs

these reads are awful

This is just straight up not tmi. Full stop.

This post right here screams TMI. What reference does Sigmund have to say White Fire's reads are awful at that stage of the game?

Looks like someone who KNOWS the alignment of those players.

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I somehow put what my comment in the middle of the quote

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If it is a crumb why the hell are you talking about it

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You're going to look ridiculous when I flip.

In my experience this is a statement mostly made by scum but frequently made by town as well.

I am the most helpful.

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I haven't noticed not mafia in this game because this not posting thing is indistinguishable from his normal game.

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Not mafia is not on the playerlist

Yes i know but he is definitely still in the game somehow.

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What happens if we elim him

VOTE: not mafia

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That's a possibility i guess. I'm just so curious tho

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Ok I started a catchup for the last 20 pages but I got bored and skimmed so I'll actually give comments later
I think I got the important stuff though

I want to vote Sigmond, but I'll sheep the IC instead because Shea said so
VOTE: WhemeStar

did I?

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I think sigmund is a pretty good vote but also guillotinas reasons are really bad.

It's amazing how we can live in both of those worlds at the same time.

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why I think sigmund has been scummy but I think guillotinas TMI case is nonsense.

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Also I really like Titus response to me I think I am going to lock town Titus for now

why are you voting White Fire, Wheme?

i don't like 1591.

Why? I like it. If you're curious, why not ask Shea about why he thinks Sigmund is a good vote.

i also think Sigmund is a good vote so i'm less interested in shea's reasons for thinking that, and more interested in shea's direction. i dunno, i'm in an ornery mood and that post was an example of commentary that feels directionless.

pressing it further crossed my mind but shea's v/la so that sort of post isn't necessarily terrible.

oog I don't have internet until thursday. pls pity me. i was not meant to live like this.

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i have a point with the post about guillotina and sigmund specifically but i don't want to talk about it yet because i want to see what happens first.

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can i help the mood at all? here is a picture of me in a dinosaur onesie if that will help.