Yggdrasil - Stratum FINAL -

[Chara]

VOTE: Morph the Cat

hello everyone!

[Chara]

i need help deciding what video game i should play next. there is no joy in the world.

we can play mafia on the side too if you want, at least until Rune Factory 5 releases in English.

VOTE: Murdercat

[Chara]

Murdercat posted and i wanted to pretend i was doing something game-related.

pedit: sometime in 2021. they haven't announced it yet. :<

[Chara]

i need help deciding what video game i should play next. there is no joy in the world.

we can play mafia on the side too if you want, at least until Rune Factory 5 releases in English.

VOTE: Murdercat

I've been enjoying slay the spire recently. I'm garbage at it, but its a fun game to be garbage at.

i appreciate the answer. might have been good of me to mention i can't play on PC right now, though. i'll saving up for a new one.

[Chara]

Hello, Farkran here.

The game lore sounds like a d&d game, i like it! Also i am town and i idled last night.

hello Fark! i'm town this time! i've decided you are too so don't worry about convincing me if you are actually scum.

[Chara]

come kill me LLD.

i'm torn between playing Pikmin again or finally finishing Nier: Automata.

pedit: if someone does have hood powers i don't want them, give them to Fark please.

it also pains me to announce i am once again not a miller.

[Chara]

Chara, play pikmin again

Pikmin is the greatest game series of all time

Did you know it's pikmin's 20th anniversary in october? And that pikmin 3 deluxe is the best selling game in the franchise?

Do nintendo know I would pay full price for ports of pikmin 1 and 2 on the switch?

i've been pocketed by jjh.

but i don't need ports, i have a wii u. all it does is play wind waker and pikmin 3. i love my wii u.

[Chara]

Ok but actually tho in my experience a lot of the people who like to complain about the lol fluff posting of day 1 are scum. It's an easy entry for scum to make and has the bonus of actually being bad for town in that in general more discussion equals more potential signal even at the cost of more noise.

That is to say my vote was at least semi-serious.

Hmm. I disagree, but i find this post very towny.

Pretty sure this is NAI for Shea

You know, I kind of want to dig into this.

This is something I faced a lot in team mafia where I would do townie things that are in my town meta and people would be like "well this is NAI for Shea." and honestly its kind of frustrating. I know I'm good at scum and I know I'm good at replicating my town game, but at some point you can look at the motivation for my points and make a judgement call about them. Just saying "this is NAI" is lazy and doesn't really seem like much of an attempt at solving. I am solveable, everyone is.

Not to be all LAMIST but solve me, don't be apathetic about it. Look into the why of my posts.

the "what" a player does is what i would call surface-level, in a meta where replicating your town meta is an art that isn't all that difficult to learn. so i agree with the spirit of the post.

but "why" did shea make it? is it perhaps because he's annoyed he can't get the towncred for the towny-shea posting? hm hm hm? it's okay though, i understand. i do the same thing as scum.

[Chara]

Now granted I was scum in that game so maybe that cuts against my point but I think it holds anyway. The same thing also happened in Stuff I'm Listening To.

LMAO shea way to make my point sound even better! you're alright.

[Chara]

oh also can hydras try to sign off with which head makes the post? That would be helpful for me, a person who really doesn't work well with reading hydras.

If shea has drawn scum
It is not with a hydra
Low bud equity

eh, this is a post you make when you don't really like playing with hydras. i don't think one makes it less when partnered with a hydra.

[Chara]

Hot take: Chara is scum.

hotter take: Fire is town but is scared of me. <3

[Chara]

There's definitely motivations for both town and scum shea to make this post.

what's the motivation for acknowledging that fact?

pedit: galactic take: i can do what i want.

[Chara]

well that one is actually true.

[Chara]

There's definitely motivations for both town and scum shea to make this post.

what's the motivation for acknowledging that fact?

pedit: galactic take: i can do what i want.

Enjoying conversing with you?

you charmer.

i don't understand your post with the three quotes.

[Chara]

yes Flea!! it's a good console!! just with a very sad little library. but it had Splatoon. and Xenoblade. and BAYONETTA 2!!

pedit: being charming is my new meta, i do that instead of remembering how to play.

[Chara]

unwnd is totally stoned face for this. I joked if I should roll a d20 for a skill check on my night action... Didn't even get a "lol" out of them.

Anyways. I have a pretty questionable innate action, and even more questionably use SP skill.

My innate skill is I can check people's current HP. I checked Save The Dragons last night (random.org). They have 3 HP. Comparatively, I have 5 HP.

My other ability, which costs 2 SP is to check a target and see if they are using SP as well the same night. I didn't use it last night.

My "class," is called Sovereign. I'm royalty or something.

wow, is there a reason you have for just outing Dragons HP like that?

[Chara]

do i have to pull out the ol' "don't claim unprompted in the closed theme" bat again? it's a little dusty but i will.

[Chara]

If anyone wants to suggest the best uses for my abilities, I'm all ears.

you have an investigation and can check if players are lying. call out liars.

or you could just claim all invests immediately and make sure your role has zero utility, while outing the HP of other random players and making them easier to kill? i suppose.

[Chara]

there is a point, there are other players who might decide to follow suit.

and i wouldn't care if i thought Toogeloo was scum. no hate, i just want to be clear i don't think it's a good idea.

[Chara]

If anyone wants to suggest the best uses for my abilities, I'm all ears.

you have an investigation and can check if players are lying. call out liars.

or you could just claim all invests immediately and make sure your role has zero utility, while outing the HP of other random players and making them easier to kill? i suppose.

from what i gathered theres no reason people would lie about SP abilities so don't think that will be really useful "invest"
unless im misunderstanding role.

i mean if i was scum who used an SP action to debuff a towny i would like to keep that a secret, personally.

[Chara]

i mean if i was scum who used an SP action to debuff a towny i would like to keep that a secret, personally.

To be clear, I only know if a player spent SP or not. I don't learn anything else.

i know. i'm aware scum can lie about the SP action they took. i just think it's good to be aware of how important information about town roles is to scum.

it's like how a VT wants to die at night so other PRs do not, ideally. so it's antitown for the VT to claim they are a VT. the same principle applies in themes with weird roles where you might claim because "this role is useless anyway".

i'm pretty anti-early massclaim and anti-lolclaiming in theme games like this so i'll continue to be a stick in the mud about it for... eh, probably not

that

long, but maybe. :>

[Chara]

So, hypothetically speaking, as town you would have announced that you debuffed us?

~notneuter

no? in a claim situation scum is going to lie, where if town sees fit to claim it's generally not a good idea to lie.

i'm not going to go into a bunch of different scenarios where one would lie or tell the truth about a debuff as town/scum, when the point of my post was to illustrate a scenario where the investigation has an actual use.

[Chara]

If we do some mass claim nonsense to try to break the game it will be an insult to unwnd and unfun.

<3

[Chara]

Doesn't seem like a grab for towncred, though, and also that's just kind of a weak action to have on a third party. Though I guess it depends what their wincon is.

I guess my question is: What is the town motivation for just claiming like that?

I feel like very often someone does something odd and everyone is like "oh, they did x odd thing they're less likely to be scum" without ever examining why town would be more likely to do X odd thing. It's definitely a mindset from town that I've exploited before as scum.

it's behavior i've seen a lot from town, and the reason i get occasionally tilted about it in themes.

in this case i would say Toog isn't sure how to use their role and thought it would be easier to crowdsource feedback.

[Chara]

"I have this shiny thing and it seems unique and suspicious enough to me that I feel the need to claim about it, lest somebody investigate me and it comes out as a wasted fake guilty gotcha"

That doesn't seem like what they said, though? They didn't say anything about getting investigated.

the principle is more about it being a towntell because the player engaging in it had less information that scum did. in FGO, the scum had multiple roles to look at and so they could see something every role PM had, where the townie in question in FGO thought their role was uber special.

i disagree that it's as much of a slamdunk here, it's a different situation and there was no townslip.
it's just a very towny action thanks to the lack of info that appeared to be motivating it.

[Chara]

"I have this shiny thing and it seems unique and suspicious enough to me that I feel the need to claim about it, lest somebody investigate me and it comes out as a wasted fake guilty gotcha"

That doesn't seem like what they said, though? They didn't say anything about getting investigated.

It's amazing what the power of thinking about another player's mindset and projecting a "town toog model" can do, isn't it?

~Neuter

i really thought this was a different player calling out Neuter for TMIing Toog as town. lmao

[Chara]

was that a rep-in or did Not Mafia just manifest a 25th slot?

[Chara]

LLD's promise was predicated on the game being unreadable. i would say it's very tolerable right now.

[Chara]

i'm either going to end up sheeping Sigmund all game or he's scum.

[Chara]

i don't wanna press Flea right now. let's do this.

VOTE: Save The Dragons

[Chara]

i'm either going to end up sheeping Sigmund all game or he's scum.

why cant both be true

i was going to say it's an and/or, but maybe either implies exclusive or?

regardless, both could be simultaneously true, certainly. the intent was simply i think this is a player i will get along with and will end up agreeing with, but it may also indicate he is scum and i'm interested in finding out which.

[Chara]

Cabd is in this game.

[Chara]

that's still not quite why, but its an approximation.

i've been told i have a very towny tone when i try, because of how my thoughts naturally meander around in no real order, so it makes it sound more unplanned and less nefarious.

but it's like that when i'm scum, too.

[Chara]

is shea buddying me or does he just appreciate quality posting? he's on the south side of null currently but that's more due to earlier than this.

pedit: of course, anya. you just have that vibe and should be proud!

[Chara]

when i'm scum

We had a very high opinion of you as Lancer!

thanks!

unfortunately being a towny scumster doesn't actually bring the win. i'm terrible at getting miselims. as scum. i'm okay at it as town.

[Chara]

that's still not quite why, but its an approximation.

i've been told i have a very towny tone when i try, because of how my thoughts naturally meander around in no real order, so it makes it sound more unplanned and less nefarious.

but it's like that when i'm scum, too.

I don't think thats as true as you think it is. I've seen you as scum.

hmm, well that's an opinion too, and i agree that my games aren't the same, but i do get the commentary that my scum tone sounds towny, which can be unfortunate as both alignments sometimes when i would like to be townread and not one to be paranoid of.

Also the verbiage try there is interesting. Were you trying? If so, why?

trying in this case refers to posting while wanting to contribute to the game/do well instead of just phoning it in.

[Chara]

hello mastina!

curious about the Titus townping, Fark.

[Chara]

Seven? I'm pretty damn sure there's only six scum in this game.

Third parties are scum until explicitly proven otherwise.

Unless you're claiming town-siding third party, it's 7.

the fact that it ended up being apparently true is hilarious.

[Chara]

man, i wish i had mastina's role.

[Chara]

i do think it's unfortunate if you are telling the truth that you've effectively killed your chances of making wincon so easily, so i have to assume you haven't actually done so and this does in some way further your wincon, whether or not it's a scum or the 3p one. because the alternative makes me kind of sad, it's a cool role and i would've liked to see how it worked in the setup.

thinks about BoI mafia and sighs.......

[Chara]

i've been burned by supposed townsiding 3ps before so it is interesting to know unwnd has set precedent for it.

[Chara]

[Chara]

not like we're gonna kill murdercat if he doesn't bring the heat d1.

[Chara]

VOTE: notscience

his haiku are fine
if you like that sort of thing
but his takes need work

[Chara]

I have two by now-
Shining, sparkling shows of town
The ball’s in your court.

who were you talking about here?

[Chara]

kind of weird to look at a post that murdercat wasn't going to make but was prompted to make and think "yeah, this is the one i'm going to try and pick apart for something nitpicky to push."

[Chara]

i don't think i can properly read notscience since i'm biased against the gimmick (if it's a post restriction then i apologize) but i haven't liked the opinions given so far. it's so far just comparing slots to their play in past games and doesn't feel nuanced. which again may have to do with gimmick and that would be a problem with it.

[Chara]

so you think the wagon on you is warranted, Flea?

[Chara]

am i Lancer?

[Chara]

Chara, don't make me go gather the dragon balls to get u to buss

this isn't the way to get me to vote with you. i respond well to compliments and gifts. venmo me $20

[Chara]

too late.

VOTE: Flea

[Chara]

Bell is correct, i am bored. my fervor for this game had a heart attack and died. :<

i'll get it back.

[Chara]

Bell is correct, i am bored. my fervor for this game had a heart attack and died. :<

i'll get it back.

What caused this?

A very nice spot!
Let me answer with question-
What’s the same for each?

Haiku is middle. rhyming couplets are right. Limericks are left.

i was trying to be cute with my wording. Arcanist death was upsetting. i'll regain my vigor.

[Chara]

good morning all.

weekend v/la (saturday/sunday)

as a precaution.

@Flea - you don't have to change how you post, but letting you know your post formatting is still really hard to interact with on mobile.

[Chara]

Current rocks:
Guillotina, Bell, MurderCat?

All attention shall move away from the rocks

The rocks must survive, I need the rocks to survive

VOTE: Bingle

The flareon has the young goddess hypnotized

you too, diametrically opposite reads, hmm.

i like your TRs, Artemiana, (well, no read on Bell), but why the Bingle vote?

[Chara]

Sigmund Guilotina asked me for a specific opinion, but I can't reading it.

I felt that Shea was vaguely scummy.
dunno how to feel about JJH repping out.
At first lancer felt like not lancer and thus town but then I remembered the last newbie gme I replaced into and this seems sort of tonally the same IDGAF, but with more words.

@Pedit ty,ty.

i am assuming Lancer is me, since i'm not sure who else it is.

idk, i feel like this should be an indication that my tone and engagement level vary wildly based on the game and how i am feeling irl, and so reading simply to see how it matches based on previous games would be a mistake.

but maybe this isn't me bc i don't remember playing a newbie recently.

[Chara]

maybe it's naive but i find Guillotina very hard to scumread here.

[Chara]

I also feel that's just an unnecessary claim to make.

miller is my favourite role, for context.

[Chara]

@Flea - yeah, not asking you to change it, it's fine. i prefer unspoiled longposts so i can search them with ctrl-f but everyone's different.

[Chara]

neighbourhoods are too much effort, it's a whole other thread to worry about. plus i had a role once that made hoods with basically the entire playerlist and that was a nightmare.

miller is simple, it's a named VT, it's role cop confirmable as town in Normals, and in most themes unless the mod's doing something strange, you have to claim pretty much right away, you don't have any PR responsibilities, and it's like being a VT and trying to get nightkilled except hard mode because you've roleclaimed already so you can only be killed by being a threat to scum.

so a fun role.

[Chara]

@chara why guillotine town? It pinged me the other way

the way he's approaching Titus with the "you're reacting the same way scum you did" and his overreaction to being pushed with saying he should be given a chance, and wanting them to feel bad about scumreading him, felt good to me. i'd rethink that if i saw a scum Guillotina example who reacts the same way.

i think i find him more "very readable" than necessarily "very town", but i always like that.

[Chara]

You really ignored
My anime avatar
You have got some nerve

your avatar is my favourite in the game. i love Illumise.

[Chara]

At bottom of 124. Will try to read another 5 or so pages tomorrow.

absolutely wild way to play this game. you'll be playing in the present two weeks after the game is over.

[Chara]

The answer is I'm both on page 2 and the current page. Well, more like page 3 since I read the bottom of page 2.

For everyone who has appeared to miss me saying this. Now, I'm on the bottom of page 5 and the current page simultaneously. It's not rocket science people.

ah, what timing.

keeping up with recent pages + depth reading?

pedit: lmao

[Chara]

Redacted.

?

[Chara]

VOTE: Ircher

[Chara]

The key to reading me is I'm actually really bad at town so if my reads are bad it means I'm probably town but if i end up on the tail end of some scum wagons I'm probably scum.

i go back and forth between finding shea to be an overwhelming mood and then just being sure he is scum who's doing a great job because he happens to keep reminding me of scum Chara. but that is kind of insane so i'll simply ask shea to make worse posts so he can be townread.
this is not an example of shea acting like scum Chara, this is just an example of shea being relatable.

i like Sigmund less than i did, but this morning seems so much farther away than it actually is and perhaps he will return with stuff i like again. still like Guillotina, the second look at his ISO has me feeling better about the read.

[Chara]

maybe this is old news but Titus is also probably town. i also see Bingle is IC, yay for you Bingle. i hope you enjoy your new hell.

[Chara]

I think the “lion”
Had a better response for
The future events

When you compare to
Ircher’s jumping end to start
Which reads fake as fuck

is this referring to shea or..?

[Chara]

i don't see why i need to be sorted specifically. surely meh is enough. sure you can force me to step it up for the game's sake if i

do

get wagoned but i respond well to things besides that. i've given some reads to talk about, i don't think i'm being completely opaque here.

plus weekend v/la.

[Chara]

You on the other hand seem to be playing rather politically and reserved. Whats up? Lets go on a hunting trip together!

how is titus playing political in anyway.

I don't think titus is making hard controversial reads in any sense, and is picking on players who could be easily wagoned.

Just because people are taking hard stances against her reads doesn't mean the hard stances are expected. Without prior experience, guillotina can be easy to push, especially when its just him fighting back. Anyas playstyle makes her an easy push, and my massive difference in time makes me a fairly easy push.

If she scum read me for my opening and My approach to her it makes more sense to vote me the moment she noticed it, not pages after and only when a wagon seems to be going in my direction

i liked Titus's stance on Wheme.

her play this game has so far been very "yeah, i see why Titus is doing that" which is a trait of town Titus.

[Chara]

i don't see why i need to be sorted specifically. surely meh is enough. sure you can force me to step it up for the game's sake if i

do

get wagoned but i respond well to things besides that. i've given some reads to talk about, i don't think i'm being completely opaque here.

plus weekend v/la.

You could be someone's lynchpin to a theory of the game. There's no harm in rehashing your thoughts, particularly if a townread asks. I'm now curious as to your thoughts on the current gamestate.

i'm fine with rehashing thoughts, i just think there's a difference between engaging with me instead of simply saying "Chara has been meh" without elaborating on why that is. ie there's a world of difference between declaring i'm meh/whatever morph said and doing something about it.

a general gamestate read is hard when i'm caught up in bits and pieces. ask me about something specific?

[Chara]

Lld, Morph, Shea,

Also, I don't like that scum aren't going for these particular LHF, so I figure ha the reason they aren't is because they're their buddies.

am i being called lhf?

i don't like how your not-meh players are just the three with the highest postcounts. like, yeah.

[Chara]

her play this game has so far been very "yeah, i see why Titus is doing that" which is a trait of town Titus.

There are quite a few who claim Titus is making sense, therefore she's scum. I hate that personally but it is there as an undercurrent.

How about me making sense makes me town?

scum Titus plays more to what she knows will get her what she wants, and town Titus plays to figuring things out. both Tituses make sense, i don't think scum Titus makes more sense in particular.
i have a good idea of how you play mafia by now and you haven't done anything i don't see town Titus deciding to do. paying attention to wagons and voting with the one you happen to like best with your reads rather than your biggest scumread is something i'd expect.

there was other stuff that pinged in your ISO before the Wheme read but i don't remember it offhand.

[Chara]

He should have been more specific about what he wanted when he asked me to name 3 players that weren't playing meh this game then.

you didn't answer about calling me lhf. is that part of your argument?

Titus: uh... that's a big-picture sort of question to me. i really don't know. i'm not good at reading wagon formations like that. it ends at "do i think this player being wagoned is town?" "no"? "okay, wagon's fine."
but if i had to try at it, i would say there's a lot of vanity wagons and that isn't great, so it would be nice to see some get traction, even if it's on a player i townread?
i guess i do understand the basic concept.

[Chara]

How in the world do you have a good idea of how Titus plays Mafia when I've played with her over 10 times now and I still have no fucking clue what I'm looking at half the time.

i mean i've been playing mafia with her for like 5 years. she has a nonstandard playstyle. i know generally how she tends to behave and a trait of scum her is either making herself more "palatable" or obfuscating her methods she's harder to discredit. Titus can correct me here, maybe it's changed.

Wait, is Fakran your brother or sister Chara?

neither. we were partners in Undertale S as Chara and Asriel, they are siblings in flavour, so we occasionally address each other as such. my signature is from the flavour.

[Chara]

Lld, Morph, Shea,

Also, I don't like that scum aren't going for these particular LHF, so I figure ha the reason they aren't is because they're their buddies.

am i being called lhf?

i don't like how your not-meh players are just the three with the highest postcounts. like, yeah.

who would you say are not-meh?

it would depend on whether meh refers to "players i don't townread" or "players i think are not playing in a readable or good way. i assumed Bell was answering with some combination of both senses.

like, Wheme lacks direction so his play would be meh, but he does lean towards town. and i dislike White Fire's stances that i remember but i also townlean them. contrast with shea who i think is playing very well but is a scumlean at the moment, but i also think he will be more readable given some time.

and you're in "this is very likely town, but their play is the good kind i'm always paranoid of, but i'm going to treat them as town anyways because you can't let it win and this play isn't sustainable if they are scum anyway."

[Chara]

Yeah, I think you're LHF. Does that bother you? Why?

it bothers me because lhf means my play/demeanor is easy to push, and i don't think that's correct. i have a couple of scumreads from players and a few townreads too, and lhf isn't usually how i see my play described, so i'm interested in why you would think that.

[Chara]

Hello, Farkran here.

The game lore sounds like a d&d game, i like it! Also i am town and i idled last night.

hello Fark! i'm town this time! i've decided you are too so don't worry about convincing me if you are actually scum.

Yeah to be honest me too, i won't even try sorting you ever again because it'd be terrible. I will feel alone though, i want to be neighborized

[Chara]

pedit: So it bothers you because you don't think it's true, that you're lhf in this game and in general. Okay.

okay.
are you planning to answer why you think that..?

[Chara]

Bell: i think there's a difference between your personal read on a slot and that slot being low-hanging fruit, but i'm also not sure if discussing it further would be helpful. what's your read on Whemestar?

[Chara]

i just think it's strange that your opinion is "i think it's weird that Math and Chara haven't been wagoned, so they might be scum for it". at least that is my impression of your opinion. i don't think there's been enough time in this game to come to that particular conclusion, and we've been playing very differently. but it seems like i've misunderstood and you were just listing two scumreads? my hackles went up from the wording, yes.

i liked Wheme's 1365. not sure why he is now confident enough to place a vote on White Fire, i'd like to know what he's seeing there.

pedit: do you have experience with Bell, shea?

[Chara]

i'm okay with the town-Bell world.

[Chara]

Also I really like Titus response to me I think I am going to lock town Titus for now

why are you voting White Fire, Wheme?

i don't like 1591.

[Chara]

I still think wheme is scum but his wagon is an absolute dumpster fire

i don't get why disliking the wagon matters if you think Wheme is scum. does it make you doubt the Wheme read?

also are you voting Murdercat for an actual reason, or was it just a joke?

i'm not sure why this whole page in particular annoys me so much. there's some trying to get things done which i like, and then a lot of posts that don't seem to be trying to accomplish anything.

[Chara]

Also I really like Titus response to me I think I am going to lock town Titus for now

why are you voting White Fire, Wheme?

i don't like 1591.

Why? I like it. If you're curious, why not ask Shea about why he thinks Sigmund is a good vote.

i also think Sigmund is a good vote so i'm less interested in shea's reasons for thinking that, and more interested in shea's direction. i dunno, i'm in an ornery mood and that post was an example of commentary that feels directionless.

pressing it further crossed my mind but shea's v/la so that sort of post isn't necessarily terrible.

[Chara]

why I think sigmund has been scummy but I think guillotinas TMI case is nonsense.

Guill likes those cases, didn't realise it was one of those.

Eh. My vote can stay there for a bit.

i think Guill believes it. there are more explanations than scum for Sigmund's view of the setup but i understand Guill's perspective.

i dunno, i guess i'm in a mood where i don't think it really matters if the case is good or not? like if you think Sigmund is scum the wagon is fine.

[Chara]

oog I don't have internet until thursday. pls pity me. i was not meant to live like this.

get well soon.

[Chara]

You're going to look ridiculous when I flip.

In my experience this is a statement mostly made by scum but frequently made by town as well.

I am the most helpful.

incredibly.

i don't like that Ircher said this to notscience, the player he's voting as scum. it doesn't feel like a real reaction.

[Chara]

shea: thank you, i find these dino onesies to be very agreeable.

[Chara]

her play this game has so far been very "yeah, i see why Titus is doing that" which is a trait of town Titus.

There are quite a few who claim Titus is making sense, therefore she's scum. I hate that personally but it is there as an undercurrent.

How about me making sense makes me town?

i'm curious about what you thought of my response to this question, Titus.

[Chara]

How in the world do you have a good idea of how Titus plays Mafia when I've played with her over 10 times now and I still have no fucking clue what I'm looking at half the time.

i mean i've been playing mafia with her for like 5 years. she has a nonstandard playstyle. i know generally how she tends to behave and a trait of scum her is either making herself more "palatable" or obfuscating her methods she's harder to discredit. Titus can correct me here, maybe it's changed.

Wait, is Fakran your brother or sister Chara?

neither. we were partners in Undertale S as Chara and Asriel, they are siblings in flavour, so we occasionally address each other as such. my signature is from the flavour.

was on the page right after.

[Chara]

her play this game has so far been very "yeah, i see why Titus is doing that" which is a trait of town Titus.

There are quite a few who claim Titus is making sense, therefore she's scum. I hate that personally but it is there as an undercurrent.

How about me making sense makes me town?

scum Titus plays more to what she knows will get her what she wants, and town Titus plays to figuring things out. both Tituses make sense, i don't think scum Titus makes more sense in particular.
i have a good idea of how you play mafia by now and you haven't done anything i don't see town Titus deciding to do. paying attention to wagons and voting with the one you happen to like best with your reads rather than your biggest scumread is something i'd expect.

there was other stuff that pinged in your ISO before the Wheme read but i don't remember it offhand.

whoops, this was the first part. i meant to quote both.

[Chara]

well i'm happy you find it accurate. i think if i were scum it at least still means i understand how you play.

i am a bit concerned that you didn't see the response and were not concerned about my apparent lack of an answer, though.

[Chara]

is this a good time to come back to the thread or can i keep doing my legos?

[Chara]

i quoted it very recently in my ISO. why do you think she's scum?

pedit: will read it.

[Chara]

can you provide an example of where his posts are advancing the game

898 for example, but his whole approach really

It rings to me as if he wants to have people talk more, take stances and produce reads. Unless Sigmund is known for doing this as scum, that's how i interpret his activity here

898 was just a list of the players who weren't voting at the time, weren't they?

it's prodding those players to take stances but i wouldn't characterize his whole play as being that way.

[Chara]

STD and Sigmund don't feel theatrey to me. STD's vote was there previously and the annoyance was spawned by Fark calling Sigmund town in a way i don't really agree with either.

[Chara]

1771 makes a good point i should probably look into. i did get the feeling she was being a lot more... "agreeable", which isn't to imply town Titus can't also be agreeable, but i didn't love the post where she says she enjoyed my analysis + found it accurate but also worried i was buddying her. i mean i think if someone correctly points out your scum methodology and then says you aren't doing that here, are you going to go straight to buddying when the analysis is apparently correct to your play? it felt kind of like she wanted to communicate a sense of paranoia without having one.

but there was definitely stuff in her earlier play that townpinged so i will look into that when i get the energy.

[Chara]

I think its actually pretty unlikely a town player puts N_M on that list.

i mean it was copy/pasted from the not-voting players, i'm not sure NM's inclusion or not

specifically

is AI given i think Sigmund just didn't care enough to bother erasing him.

but that is also pretty semantic when i find the post kind of rote to begin with.

[Chara]

i'd be okay voting Sigmund rn but i like my vote where it is. going through Titus's play again is on my to-do.

apologies for how low-energy i am right now.

[Chara]

This is the big thing

The columns are players' reads and the rows are reads of players. At the far right are totals of town and scum reads per player.

I went through all the ISOs Sunday night to start this and have tried to update as updated reads hit the thread, and in some cases, kinda guessed whether something you said about another player was a town, null, or scum read. If the cell is blank, I didn't think you expressed a read, or I couldn't figure out what kind of read it was (looking at you, Bell).

Let me know if your actual read on someone differs and I'll post an update.

a lot of these are outdated for me. i don't SR Flea anymore, i don't really SR notscience anymore, i townread toogeloo, and my shea read is back to null.

[Chara]

Is a full claim from morph going to shed any more light on this?

Yeah it's gonna illuminate whether I need to fucking full claim or not.

lol day1 massclaim. It isn't a large theme without this kind of stuff.

@pedit i never forgot u notsci u doing better today?

i'm not seeing why anyone needs to be claiming from this. it seems really unnecessary, even if you scumread Arte it's a good enough reason to allow them to live d1.

[Chara]

Sure, but this isn't talking about strength, this is talking about style. FL's game is built around a core of never arguing from a position where he thinks he's wrong, which is relatively easy to pull off if you're an ego player. His strength is in knowing when to back down, wanting to win really badly, and how to manipulate people into doing his dirty work.

I could be wrong and paranoid, but I don't think anything Guillotina has done is clearing, because I think regardless of alignment Guillotina has been arguing things he believes to be true. I don't think Guillotina stepping to the bat against me is clearing because I think scum Guillotina absolutely believes he wins that fight. I don't think any of the plays he's made aren't adequately explained by "Guillotina genuinely believes himself to be right here".

i'm not sure i would be comparing Guillotina's potential scumplay to a scum FL situation.

[Chara]

Ouch

Yes

But ouch

Ninja
Y not me

This thread is our PT. I need something away from the masses for chara. Otherwise chara gets distracted too easily

<3

[Chara]

i agree it's not a hard post to fake. and given Ircher's notscience scumread at the time i think it's a strange thing to say. "you'll look ridiculous" isn't usually how one feels about scum who successfully got a miselim.

[Chara]

more often than not these freudian slip tells are a load of nothing. i'm agreeing with SS.

i kind of don't love how Flea has responded either, but i don't know if it's enough i want to wagon faer. i feel like faer play has been fine.

[Chara]

STD's ISO is underwhelming and i don't townread him, that wagon isn't bad. i'm not sold on the STD/Sigmund partner angle but they are both scummy and it's D1.

[Chara]

@shea - i looked at Titus's direction this game again and she is still striking me as her townself. i don't see what scum Titus gets out of the NM vote, which i mention not as a reason for her to be town but because it's one of the reasons you don't think she is town. it doesn't really help her game when she could just be voting one of the scumreads she has that also has votes.

by no means a lockread but i wouldn't be comfortable wagoning her here as she's a townlean. unfortunately i can't articulate it better than i have, but i will keep paying attention to her slot.

thinking on it further i maybe don't want to eliminate Sigmund. the yelling about how he was spewed TMI town hit in spite of my not particularly wanting it to.

[Chara]

part of me is just waiting for Ircher and STD to return.

@Fark - talk to me ahout STD scum? i'm not seeing why you're very confident about this read when STD is mostly a "meh" slot for me at worst.

[Chara]

Still like my notsci vote.

That’s not what I said at all

I’m saying the way you have phrased it sounds like you were making a comment while actually knowing the answer

Ninja
Bring it chuckles I eat scum like you for breakfast

You're going to look ridiculous when I flip.

what do you think of this sequence?

[Chara]

Chara's posts are feeling highly reasonable. I don't know if this is alignment indicative.

i don't think it is, necessarily. i do make an effort not to be unreasonable as scum more than i do as town, but it's not like i'd ever be unreasonable as town on

purpose

.

pedit: lmfao

OH FUCK SIGMUND JUST TMIED ME TOWN GET HIM

[Chara]

i think i'd characterize my scumgame most as feeling vulnerable. when i get an early townread from a few players i'm okay as scum, but if i'm under pressure i start to crack and end up playing really conservatively. that's what happened in FGO when i felt pretty hopeless with our whole team missing from townread lists, and it lead to my activity taking a hit. if the game is going well for the team i'm better at replicating my townself.

no idea how i would describe my towngame. i would guess there's less fear, but i still get tripped up if i get heavily pushed so maybe that's just how i am?

tbh i'm starting to think how "towny" i am is heavily dependent on irl/game-specific factors like the plist and my scumteam, and has nothing to do with my alignment. i don't know any players onsite offhand who can accurately meta me, but i also think that's the case for a big percentage of players.

[Chara]

...that isn't to say i think i'm somehow exempt from being able to be sorted or that my games are actually identical, cause they're not, i just haven't seen any claims about what Chara does as scum or town that ended up really being accurate. but this is pretty off topic.

[Chara]

SS: do you have any insight into your town vs. your scumgame? i still don't really know how to read you, though i want to say you're more likely town here for how you defended Flea.

[Chara]

Uh, it's really hard for me to talk about my scumgame since it's so inconsistent nowadays. I feel like the biggest difference is that my scumgame isn't very dynamic? As in, it's hard for me to respond quickly to stuff in a genuine-seeming way.

If you want me to point to anything in this game that I would have done differently as scum... honestly, I have no idea. Probably I would have interacted with LLD and morph in a more stilted way, since I'd be scared stiff of them.

yeah, i can kind of see that for scum you. the former part, i don't have any way to speak for the second.

[Chara]

more often than not these freudian slip tells are a load of nothing. i'm agreeing with SS.

i kind of don't love how Flea has responded either, but i don't know if it's enough i want to wagon faer. i feel like faer play has been fine.

Why you kinda don't love how Flea has responded either?

i guess i don't like how after responding to the initial "tmi slip" from Sigmund with an explanation of fae wording, fae continued on past that making posts about how fae doesn't care or is laughing about it. i dunno, it felt kind of forced.

[Chara]

*faer wording, that would have bothered me lmao.

while i'm at it, the possessive for it/its is its! it's with the apostrophe is a contraction for it is, and not a possessive.

[Chara]

i've been overextended so i'm probably off in all my games

but i do pride myself in playing a little differently each time

i get scumread a lot for it

so what's the difference between scum!STD and LHF!STD?

i don't know, what is the difference and how is one supposed to tell?

@shea - STD's play is in underwhelming/not town territory for me. i'm not going to vote there as long as Ircher is viable as i find him underwhelming/vaguely scummy in comparison. and no one has really responded about what i pointed out again in 2250 and i would really like some feedback on it, i think it's strange to both think a player is scum and to make the post "you're going to look ridiculous when i flip town".

besides that it feels to me like Ircher is trying to put out content, but the content itself is irrelevant to sorting or finding scum this game day. example being the amount of time spent arguing about why Toog is null and not town. (this doesn't include the post where Ircher was asked to elaborate and did so, i'm referring to before that.)

[Chara]

This is my "don't wanna touch today" list

Morph the Cat (fferyllt/Cabd)
Lady Lambdadelta
Artemiana
Titus
Guillotina
Toogeloo
Thestatusquo
Bingle

Yes LLD is on there, if she is scum let's find the partners.

checking: why is Arte here?

[Chara]

no, but i was hoping to get murdercat to respond first.

pedit: i was, thanks.

[Chara]

i don't know, what is the difference and how is one supposed to tell?

i want people to think about it before deciding i'm scum for being awkward and non-present in the thread

i mean, day 1 i'm totally fine with wagoning someone for being awkward and non-present. what is someone hypothetically supposed to be thinking about here? how would scum STD be playing differently? it seems like you're just asking not to be scumread but you're not actually giving reasons for it.

also SS asked you a question i'm curious about your answer to, should be fairly recent in his ISO.

[Chara]

no, but i was hoping to get murdercat to respond first.

pedit: i was, thanks.

this is what morph was talking about re: me. :/

Sorry about that.

it's fine, i used to do this sort of thing a lot but stopped after i got shit for it, ahaha. i just wasn't sure how caught up murdercat was.

[Chara]

i'm not sure how one would tell they are a PR given the example town PM has a "PR-like" ability to me.

but i am sure i don't especially want to talk about it!

pedit: i was kidding about Sigmund TMIing me. but the reason i made the joke was because Sigmund said scum Chara would be being unreasonable, with the implicit agreement with SS's post that i was being reasonable, therefore Sigmund must know i'm town.

Sigmund's post i also read as a joke, which is the other reason it wouldn't be a TMI. and it wouldn't be a meta read as Sigmund doesn't have meta on me.

[Chara]

Still like my notsci vote.

That’s not what I said at all

I’m saying the way you have phrased it sounds like you were making a comment while actually knowing the answer

Ninja
Bring it chuckles I eat scum like you for breakfast

You're going to look ridiculous when I flip.

what do you think of this sequence?

i would accept a "this is nothing, Chara, shut up", over the complete lack of responses i've gotten on this point.

[Chara]

if sigmund flips red i bet shea is red too

You don't think Sigmund acts the way he did toward tsq if tsq is town? or what

sorry i missed this

it's more about what shea did than what sigmund did. i think there's a world where scum!shea knows scum!sigmund is his partner and calls him out to distance but then backtracks and calls out both of us

it's not a great read but it's a thought i wanted to toss out there

this is what i figured you were getting at.

re: the my recent posts towards you, i'm saying i think it'd be better if you spent this thread time talking about reads/hunting than just talking about the wagon on you in a nonspecific way.

[Chara]

that's not what i'm arguing.

[Chara]

You're going to look ridiculous when I flip.

In my experience this is a statement mostly made by scum but frequently made by town as well.

I am the most helpful.

incredibly.

i don't like that Ircher said this to notscience, the player he's voting as scum. it doesn't feel like a real reaction.

i've repeated it like 4 times, and it's no ones fault for missing it, but it is a little bit annoying. thanks for replying though.

this was the first instance.

[Chara]

i've been overextended so i'm probably off in all my games

but i do pride myself in playing a little differently each time

i get scumread a lot for it

so what's the difference between scum!STD and LHF!STD?

i don't know, what is the difference and how is one supposed to tell?

@shea - STD's play is in underwhelming/not town territory for me. i'm not going to vote there as long as Ircher is viable as i find him underwhelming/vaguely scummy in comparison. and no one has really responded about what i pointed out again in 2250 and i would really like some feedback on it, i think it's strange to both think a player is scum and to make the post "you're going to look ridiculous when i flip town".

besides that it feels to me like Ircher is trying to put out content, but the content itself is irrelevant to sorting or finding scum this game day. example being the amount of time spent arguing about why Toog is null and not town. (this doesn't include the post where Ircher was asked to elaborate and did so, i'm referring to before that.)

and here's the most recent mention.

i wouldn't have brought it (that specific point, and Ircher being scum) up so many times but i am interested in some kind of reply even if it's just a disagreement.

[Chara]

i've repeated it like 4 times, and it's no ones fault for missing it, but it is a little bit annoying. thanks for replying though.

this was the first instance.

Sorry. What feels not-real about it? Scum can look ridiculous too.

they can, but say Ircher does get miselimmed and flip town, after notsci has been saying confidently he's scum, does that make notsci look ridiculous? from Ircher's pov here, scum notsci knows Ircher is flipping town, so i don't see where that "gotcha" bravado comes from.

so it looks more like false bravado to me.

[Chara]

Ircher's content is also an important point here, those quote stripe walls feel largely like empty content, they don't tell me why notsci is a good vote when Ircher's responded to notsci's posts with the same energy as he's responded to every other post he doesn't agree with, and his concern with arguing against Toog townreads also bothers me. there's more reasoning about why Toog should be null than why notsci is scum.

[Chara]

i think i gave you a hint there

More like you bashed me over the head with it

But yes, what Shea said, everyone is going to soft and hint because you can easily claim something useful if anyone ever calls your bluff. Same logic for why I still pushed Bingle.

it's fair to say this but doesn't change the fact i don't want to be wagoned for that reason

Do you think you're actually the LHF that scum would target? Seems to me there are wagons on other LHF that scum could easily get behind, so from your POV I would expect you to think a) that the people who are LHF that are being wagoned are more likely to be scum and b) the people attacking you are their buddies or more likely to be town.

I haven't really seen any evidence of either thought process from you which is my big problem with this line of argument from you.

i see what you're saying here, for me the explanation for why these ideas are missing from STD could be scum or it could be STD is disengaged/overextended as he's claimed, which is why i was trying to get him to talk about his reads. it doesn't seem like that's going to happen at this very moment, though.

[Chara]

I responded at the time that it doesn't make a lot of sense for STD to suspect me for that interaction. It seemed forced and a knee jerk defense. There are a couple of possibilities there but the two main ones are "I know sigmund is scum and I want to distance" and "I know STD is scum and don't want to talk about my buddy"

In terms of things scum actually do the latter is MUCH more common than the former and STD should obviously know its not true as either alignment. Accusing me of the first is kind of weird because it implies I need to make up things to attack my buddies for AND it implies that I would not attack another player who is town who I had previously been scum reading. If you think I'm scum there there's really no reason for me to just attack them both. It's just a surface level approach to the game and demonstrates a lack of real thought about what the things he's attacking people for mean.

Which is the same thing I'm seeing in this discussion about whether he's LHF. I would expect town!STD to draw conclusions from the discussion here and he's not showing any understanding of what the implications of him being attacked in the face of other LHF wagons are.

I'm not trying to BoP STD but he's been around a long time and I think that a town version would just display fundamentally more curiosity about what these things mean rather than just looking for things to push back against which seems to be what he's doing.

This was hell to type on a phone but its really important.

i think you're logically in the right here.

but from STD's pov, i don't think he's ever going to consider the scenario where scum shea avoids talking about his partner. because STD isn't scum from his pov. so instead what he sees is the player he scumreads (Sigmund) treated differently from himself (STD), and wonders why that is.

but you're looking at this with a different logical order. STD didn't start from "shea is scum, now how is he treating STD vs. Sigmund", he started from Sigmund is scum, and shea treated him differently from how he treated me.

and that tracks with STD's post of "if Sigmund flips scum, shea should also be scum", because STD is starting from Sigmund scum, as that's the scumread STD had first and that seems to be stronger.

this was also really hard to type out and i'm not great at following the logical steps but i hope it makes sense.

[Chara]

Your analysis stops at "I am being attacked. I am LHF. Therefore the people attacking me are more likely to be scum." and that doesn't seem like where a townie actually trying to figure out the alignment of people in the game would stop. That seems like where the logic of scum trying to discredit their attackers would stop.

i'm not seeing where STD argued that the players pushing him are more likely to be scum. he brought the idea up of wanting others to sort through whether they are genuine scumreads or going after LHF.

[Chara]

LHF is

2. Dunnstral
3. Save the Dragons
4. White Fire (Shiro/Firebringer)
6. Ircher
8. Sigmund
12. NDMath
15. Anya
18. Flea the Magician
21. MURDERCAT
24. Something_Smart

Wow thats actually a huge list now that I actually stop and think about every slot.

i don't think White Fire or SS are LHF at all. i would also say Flea isn't really.

[Chara]

So what is the implication of that statement?

i'm arguing that STD's analysis stopped before he even got to the part of accusing specific players or even that the wagon on him was attractive to scum.

and i think representing STD's stance that the wagon on him doesn't have a lot of substance and is attacking a LHF/low/disengaged poster as saying that he is saying the players attacking him are more likely scum is incorrect. whatever it implies, it's not what STD is saying. very explicitly he said he wanted others to think about why he is being pushed, and that he doesn't have the time to read into anything deeper at this moment.

you presenting this as the end of STD's analysis when STD has claimed to be busy and so he hasn't finished analyzing anything does strike me as a misrepresentation.

i'm not saying it's a scummy misrep, but it does seem like there is a readily available explanation for why STD's analysis has not gone as far or as deep as you'd like.

[Chara]

This would be my LHF list

Sigmund
NDMath
WhemeStar
Guillotina
Flea the Magician

i could agree with this list. in a cosmic sort of way.

actually it's interesting Wheme didn't make it onto shea's list.

[Chara]

@shea - to continue from my last post, i'm not saying STD can't be scum for all of this, and i'm not saying i think you or anyone should be taking STD at his word that he actually is too busy to be doing this analysis. i'm only saying i find it a plausible explanation.

however, with 2354, ie the point about shea/Sigmund being teamed and STD's posts on that subject, this is my actual read on what happened there from STD's pov.

also pedit: STD your reasoning on Sigmund sounds a lot like the reasoning against you here.

[Chara]

huh, i guess that's just my reasoning, i can't find anything saying it specifically. it was my impression that you were being wagoned for a lack of content and i thought that was also your impression given your 2270.

but i suppose yes, being wagoned for being "off" and being wagoned for not having a lot of content are pretty different.

[Chara]

also i just backflipped out of my scum meta, you're all welcome. i figured out what the difference is!

(disclaimer: i don't expect anybody to buy this. it's just going to be for Chara.)

[Chara]

The game state is either controlled by a bunch of highly townread scumbags who will keep their scumteam from ever facing danger and steamroll this town or its going to be a massive 2020 style large theme roflstomp of some badly prepared scum team that has 0 charismatic/thread control capable players on it.

I don't trust Cabd/LLD and I want them to start steering the ship so I can figure out if they're bad or good instead of letting the peasants randomly slap each other with wooden swords.

what about games where the scumteam has one or two charismatic players in it?

[Chara]

guys my plan worked

[Chara]

I think that both "std is busy" and "std is trying to discredit his wagon in a way I find problematic" are probably both true, and I think when someone says "I want you to look at the people voting me and ask if they're going for lhf or genuinely scum reading me" 9 times out of 10 what they're implying is that the people voting them are voting them because they're low hanging fruit.

i think this is fair, but i also think it's fair to say we probably aren't going to agree on STD at the moment. but my vote is there if we get up close to deadline.

pedit: lmao

[Chara]

I'll take what I can get when it comes to you, Chara.

And my vote is on Ircher if we need it there at deadline.

[Chara]

i think it'd be cool if everyone who hasn't given a read on Sigmund, STD, Ircher, Flea, does so.

[Chara]

...i added Flea to make Fire happy but i mostly care about the first three. don't tell him.

[Chara]

<3

i have to go now, but if those remaining here could try and get an answer on that from others that show up it would be great, thanks for the answers so far.

[Chara]

I promised myself that I wouldn't defend middling reads but this flea wagon sucks. There isnt a case I on faer, there never has been a case on faer and faer is being ran up because...????

I just made a case on flea.

that town Flea always OMGUS votes?

[Chara]

Every game I've played with town Flea a major component of the experience was their OMGUS. They're taking suspicion too well and not being defensive or making passive aggressive snipes about why everyone is wrong.

i modded a towngame with Flea where fae didn't behave like that at all. binding of isaac mafia.

[Chara]

chara please give me something to sheep. I think we're going to no elim. :/

we aren't. worst case we compromise on something not ideal. but let me see.

[Chara]

Scumread, townlean, eh, eh,
Eh translating to I'm not sure what to make of their posts. Reads on ircher seem to depend based off of people's interpretation of ircher's posting style. Am not finding much reasoning for the flea wagon.

my read on Ircher has zero to do with his posting style. would you mind rereading my posts on Ircher and seeing what you think again?

curious about your STD townlean in a general sense.

if you're not voting Sigmund already i'd say that's an ok vote.

[Chara]

uhhhh, Bingle voted Ircher. where is Bingle? Bingle come in here and get the wagons going in the right direction, this ain't my job lmao.

[Chara]

Can you point me to any other of your points about ircher besides the one about the "you'll look stupid when I flip" one?

his posts have the flavor of putting out content for content's sake, the commentary is all fine but the only direction to his game appears to be arguing against townreads others have, see: Toog TRs, and a lot of his expressed opinions are surface-level commentary. it's just an incredibly dry ISO, it really feels like he's posting because he has to and not because he has something to contribute every time he shows up in the thread.

[Chara]

I wanna be clear that what I just quoted was from flea and it was an (accurate) omgus vote on Farkran, so.
I don't get Chara's point minus maybe Flea's vibe was different that game.

i don't agree that Flea's vote on Farkran that game was particularly snippy or condescending. it's an omgus vote, yes, but that post and the rest of faer posting doesn't seem to have that quality you're describing, and i have to agree that fae does seem more accepting of faer position as oft-lhf.

i'm on the whole less willing to accept reads like "X player

always

does Y as town" when i don't have firsthand experience with the phenomenon because people tend to change, so if you want to convince me Flea is scum it'll have to be with faer play in this game only.

[Chara]

Bell, what are your thoughts on sigmund? Why would you wagon faer over him?

I have been pulled in that direction only by guillotina's enthusiasm for it. Otherwise, Sigmund isn't really making any friends. It's not very survivalist in intention. So I lean against his wagon and favor Flea's because I can at least identify something that could be an alignment differential.

i like this post, though.

i'm undecided on Sigmund because i agree he's not doing himself any favours and makes himself really easy to dislike, but it's also possible that scum Sigmund has just made an error in the persona he's taken on for this game, because the egotistical read is certainly accurate.

[Chara]

I'm not really trying to convince you that Fae is scum tho. You're too low in my town reads for me to be interested in getting your vote.

you should want my vote regardless if you want your scumreads eliminated, generally speaking.

[Chara]

not Chara's vote specifically, but... votes. you should want votes.

[Chara]

2573 is actually kind of baffling. i mean, i get that if scumreads all follow you onto your big scumread you're going to maybe start worrying if that scumread is accurate, but if the goal is to elim a scumread, a vote from town and a vote from scum are still going to equal 1 more to elimination.

[Chara]

I don't really think you can convince scum to vote for your scum reads without appealing to their win condition. I don't want Flea to be voted if they're town.

sure, but... idk, only caring if your high townreads vote your scumread seems kind of backwards to me when you realistically are going to need lower town/nulls votes too, and scumreads who you may be wrong on, since the number to elim is something like 13, but... i still think you're town and this doesn't even seem like an AI topic so i guess i should leave it alone?

[Chara]

U should want Chara vote the most. Chara vote is the most potent of all votes

I'm not attacking their self-esteem.

i didn't think you were, and i don't know what this has to do with Fire's post. i'm not like, upset, it's just not a perspective i've seen before.

Fire: i believe you know who i'd want you to vote!

[Chara]

oh it's an Ircher!

[Chara]

oh goddamn it. Ircher's just like that.

[Chara]

handshake to Bell too, good talk. i also don't mind talking about it but there's other stuff to discuss.

i guess i'm wagon shopping again. Ircher's thoroughly nulled himself. no i'm not happy about it, but also thanks Ircher for the responses as i doubt i would have let go without them.

i don't think i can vote STD currently after all of that stuff earlier today but i might feel differently tomorrow.

[Chara]

VOTE: Flea

this or Sigmund.

i have played very little attention to NDMath this game, i see some scumreads on the slot but i don't remember what reasoning was given.

[Chara]

morph scum theory time: Cabd was trying to capitalize on the IC doing that in FGO, but i think the execution was fumbled because no one was forced to commit to those reads that made it into the spreadsheet and, at least for me, a lot of them were pretty out of date from earlygame reads that ended up changing or fading and weren't important enough to make it into the thread.

it was an Amount of effort but not enough.

[Chara]

kick me while i'm down, why don't you.

[Chara]

i like 2610, it makes me feel good about where my vote is.

[Chara]

yeah i know i just disagreed with Bell on the exact same point, but no one should live in the past.

[Chara]

i like SS. he's so pleasant. i feel like i'm sitting in a university class discussing the homework with him, and he takes good notes so he has a good idea of what's going on in the course but values my input, and we don't have to have any sort of relationship outside of the classroom because our relationship ends at one of pleasant circumstance.

[Chara]

maybe i shouldn't be saying this to someone named Sigmund, but i generally don't take advice from Freud.

[Chara]

Freudian slips aren't a thing, and as for Flea's post, fae was making a statement based off of the phrase "towniest town", and saying Sigmund was not the towniest town, which is not the same thing as saying Sigmund was not the towniest but he is town, and instead makes more sense to me to be read as a simple negation of the claim that Sigmund was "towniest town."

all that said, dislike of those semantic slips aside, i agree Flea is a good vote.

[Chara]

if Flea flips scum i'm still going to argue that wasn't a slip. it's not about being careful or not being careful, it's about how language works.

also, this sort of thing seems in character for SS to spend time on and care about. or i'm just thinking that because i also care immensely even though it functionally doesn't matter because i do think Flea is scummy, just not for

this

thing, and it bothers me that Sigmund is

disagreeing

with me on the

internet.

[Chara]

1) Look into my ISO, ive been very vocal about it, you cant miss it. Im gonna force you to read instead of making me waste time repeating myself.
2) If you havent resd half of this game how did you come to the conclusion that it is gibberish? Also, what posts are not gibberish? Point them out to me.
3) What are you saying here, that my scumread on you is a wild guess or that your scumread on me is?
4) im great at this game, you and your pack wished i was not.

1. I'm not reading your entire fucking iso to figure out what your point is

if its important to you and you believe in it you should be able to write it in 1 sentence.

the fact you don't means you're just full of shit here.

2. It's called skimming, if it sounds like bullshit gibberish I just glance over it and don't read it.

3. I'm not a psychic so it out.

4. nah cuz you're literally scumreading the

towniest townie

in this game.

Sigmund you are FAR from

the towniest town

in this game. we have many holding that title above you.

Flea was replying directly to Sigmund. Flea repeated his wording. this is a very normal thing to do in a conversation. it requires less conscious effort than changing the phrase to "towniest player" would take.

no this doesn't matter i don't know why i keep arguing it!! but still.

so as i was writing this post i started thinking about why Flea would even want to make this post, 2206 is kind of a weird post, maybe fae really did make it because fae knows he's town and wanted to throw a jab about how he isn't that towny. i mean i still don't think it's a slip but arguing that really doesn't matter.

okay, night all, it's time.

[Chara]

wait also yeah, morph it is super hard to tell who is posting, i have no idea who either of you are but reading hydras requires a certain amount of knowing who is posting.

pedit: also yeah no it's not a slip i'm sticking to that and the copying wording thing because that's more legitimate, i only wavered because i scumread Flea now, ignore the rest of it.

[Chara]

"I'm the bluest face clown in the car!"
"You're nowhere near the bluest clown in the car"
"Ah hah! So you admit I'm blue!"

This is the argument you're making. Are you joking right now?

you can't just reduce all communication down to semantics ("pre-supposes") when it's much more complex than that.

"i'm a dancing cat," says the sitting figure.

"you're not a dancing cat!" replies the other, as they can clearly see the figure is sitting, and not dancing, though they can't quite see what sort of animal they are.

"aha, but you've admitted i'm a cat!" says the figure triumphantly.

omg shea samesies

[Chara]

Not exactly? But like right now my brain is full of DMARC to SFP run notation and not really helpful to the game, unless DMARC A 0000 006 SMF R301RU34 XE 0/0/1 SFP (LR 1G) can divine a scum for us.

DMARC
MRDCA
MURDRCA
MURDERCAT

[Chara]

anya has more content than that one post. it's all dressed up in the strange language but she hasn't been doing nothing all day.

i don't think LLD is scum, though.

[Chara]

Would you compromise on Anya?

You would be vote 5
Bingle 6
Morph 7

+

With a few of those votes being moved, faer would no longer be the largest wagon

I wouldn't vote Anya for reasons. That being said, i don't know the player, i don't think i can read her properly, and i don't think it would be particularly valuable info compared to the alternatives.

i'm here re: anya too.

like, i would vote her to avoid a no-elim, but it's the same as voting a null read.

pedit: i can get behind anything that isn't "have three players claim to settle which one to elim".

[Chara]

i wish i knew the counts, my vote would be on whichever of Sigmund or Flea is higher.

[Chara]

VOTE: bingle

sure i townread lady

TSQ do you townread me?

Not really, no. I don't think you've done much of consequence. But i don't agree with morphs logic about you.

Alrighty

VOTE: unvote well that was a bad sheep

I would say this game suffers from a lack of sheep. Not in the sense that there's too many people trying to lead but more in the sense that no one is following and they're not proposing alternate ideas either.

I am a great sheep i just dont have a lock town read

THEY ARE VOTING ME

VOTE: notsci

you're on hibernation mode

WHat's farkran's deal?

he feels zombielike right like he's wrapped up in bandages so he doesn't fall apart but still tries to wear normal clothes over them to fit into society

artemania looks like an eager adventurer trying to find a homely party and dungeons to loot i like the spirit

VOTE: whemestar transcribes text but i have no idea why he transcribes what he does

1508 reads too strong for a previously naked vote which is where the annoyance should've been placed looks like he's up on the stage

also it could be a wolf trying to look intimidating to another wolf so we don't think think they're actually best buds but he's overdoing it

like i don't care if you don't like the content but anya's ISO

has

content.

[Chara]

it's content. anya posts in a strange way like that. that doesn't mean she isn't calling Fark scum for posting in a dead sort of way in 1321. and 1662 8 don't need to explain.

like even if you don't think it's good content i think LLD's claim that the post morph quoted is anya's only hunting post is just not right.

[Chara]

i don't think they're both scum but i'm okay with either wagon. my heart says Sigmund isn't scum but it's not a strong enough feeling that i care to listen to it very much.

VOTE: Sigmund

i don't think Flea's recent posts are any better but i'm willing to consider rl for why fae is behaving differently.

pedit: sure, i don't think LLD is scum for the push, i said as much.

[Chara]

I liked fleas most recent posts a decent amount and I still don't like a single thing sigmund has done all game.

Do you? I actually had the opposite impression on flea. STD made me change my mind with his posts, at least enough to live another day - flea's anwers and reasoning don't seem to be in line with a town mindset in the last ~10 pages? Maybe it's just a consequence of faer week, or because this is a large messy game, but fae reacted differently when fae got mislimmed d2 in chara's isaac game where i was scum

@chara am i misremembering?

you're not, this is how i remember it too, and i believe it was Bell who pointed that out when i argued the opposite (that Flea was town).
i still prefer Flea as the elimination but i guess i'm susceptible to the argument fae is acting different due to irl.

[Chara]

TMI - scum have it, but town often say things that look like it/have it.
NEI - town have it, but scum can try to fake it, and do.

[Chara]

i believe Sigmund on this.

[Chara]

i think knowing information you'd literally have no other way of knowing and accidentally outing that is a legit use of TMI.

it's different from things like townies figuring out aspects of the setup or treating other players as though they're for sure town, which is what it's usually called out for.

i may as well say i don't townread Ircher, but i do think his response to me was pretty good so i'm treating the things i didn't like as an Ircher quirk and giving more time for the slot to be sorted.

[Chara]

Flea: why is your anya read going down?

[Chara]

i agree with shea, i think the assertion that anya hasn't been hunting this game is wrong, i don't think she's coasting, and i think her reads make sense. i don't really have time to trawl through the thread right now but throwing my two cents in.

[Chara]

Flea: BoI mafia probably won't be for a while. i've been playing a lot of Hollow Knight.
also i didn't think you were that LHF, but i did see you as possibly closer to it than the others i pointed out. i agreed with the second list "cosmically" ie generally.

[Chara]

kind of just want to see someone flip so i can see where i'm right and where i'm wrong. but i don't want yet another new wagon as compromise.

[Chara]

i just don't agree about anya, she is doing things in her ISO, she's made votes with reasoning before the LLD vote, yeah they're not especially big moves but i think that's just the kind of player anya is.

i'm just not seeing the big slam-dunk that she isn't solving at all. i'd accept that her solving isn't deep or some other reason but i think this is the vibe anya brings to the table generally.

i like Sigmund or Flea better.

[Chara]

i mean Math's posts have more content than most of mine, lmao. if you're going to scumread the slot at least say why besides activity. especially from Flea who has been arguing activity is NAI for faer.

[Chara]

i mean there's town defending anya somewhere. unless me, Fark, and shea are all scum.

(obligatory i know i'm town defending anya, i'm talking about povs outside of my own.)

[Chara]

also Guill: i don't subscribe to your TMI tells but that doesn't mean i think your play has been bad. i know this is kind of late but i remembered an earlier interaction and wanted to say i wasn't trying to make fun of your play, and i apologize.

[Chara]

VOTE: Flea

[Chara]

:<

[Chara]

oh well. it'll be okay. day 1 scum elims lose games after all!

[Chara]

love Fire for being contrary.

idk, Arte was off my radar since the "clear" so i didn't pay attention to the reaction at all.

pedit:

[Chara]

It's hard to be sure of reads. Garbage in garbage out. I still feel that we hit scum though as no one could give a reason to TR her.

cool to be ignored on that front.

[Chara]

It's hard to be sure of reads. Garbage in garbage out. I still feel that we hit scum though as no one could give a reason to TR her.

cool to be ignored on that front.

and if anya flips scum?

then i was wrong?