Well, anyway, I got bored since the game is impossibly slow right now, so I went and reread some things.
@Avenger,
can you walk me through your trajectory on Saber? You went from initially not liking her for the master vote because "something seems off"...
In post 434, Servant Avenger wrote: In post 418, Servant Assassin wrote:@Avenger, That is palpably not true. I see very little difference between this phase and a typical D1 of any game. In fact I'd argue the game rolls a bit faster here simply because of the unique mechanic. Please, pretend!
Okay, I think you're scum.
Gut feeling, hard to explain.
I like Beserkers posting, town minded.
Something seems off with Saber.
There you go.
The question is, is it actually better for scum if they hit their own in the master phase?
I doubt it. Having an additional person to decieve is a lot stronger. I wouldn't assume that the powers are of equal value to towns, with a great boost on a scum flip. It makes something that is easily manipulated into a strange reward on scum, rather than a balancing mechanism.
I also doubt that scum will be pushing their own without a larger majority pushing for a slot. Therefore if any of the 3 for masters flip scum I'm inclined to think its town voting there, or at least being vocal.
So you're right, I've mis spoken by saying RVS, but more like day 1 where its irrelevant to my thinking until I see information.
Or until I see something that I just don't like.
But come day 1, that feeling seemed to have disappeared, and instead you were resistant to the push on Saber based on her claim:
In post 954, Servant Avenger wrote:I'm not sure how I feel on Sabers claim as scummy here.
What's the thought of it being scummy? The fact Saber said it was powerful late game or because of the power?
If you don't believe that Saber thought it was a powerful role then why do they claim it here? Either Saber thinks its powerful as either align or keeps quiet if scum who doesn't think it's a powerful role.
In post 1039, Servant Avenger wrote:Let's put it this way though, how often are millers dealt with?
More than not. I personally think that the general meta should be Miller claims do not make MyLo unless confirmed town.
I also think that a vig should always shoot a miller claim regardless of what has happened. Therefore, it's actually a stupid play from scum to claim (hence why the meta should remain regardless).
I don't survive to end game, and I'm not going to be pushing back on that later.
I have 2 additional roles though, 1 is either for or against scum (and low key ironic for me to get), and 1 is anti scum in this setup.
Both of these are also provable, the first at any point in the day and the second at the end of the day.
Here's some food for thought though, and I've been thinking this over for the last day to if I should say or not, and I've decided I want to since Lancer and Foreigner are shading and most likely contain 1-2 scum.
In addition, my power up power thing is the same Sabres. Originally I read Sabres comment as it's better late game, and that is my view on it.
So my thoughts here are
A) if anyone else at all has this power, then its plausible to be town or at least irrelevant to thought right now and I think Sabre is town anyway.
B) if only me and Sabre have this power then it's likely 1 of us is scum and 1 of us is town. Obviously in this situation, I would claim the town.
If its A, I'm probably going to use my first power on Foreigner if the votes are not going there.
In post 1086, Servant Avenger wrote:
Because there's a chance that me and Sabre are half matching and different alignment. That's why I want to know if even a single other person also has our power up thing.
If not, and it is only me and Sabre with it, I have more to offer that suggests Saber scum.
I do think it's most likely others with it too though, but if I'm wrong there then either me or Saber should be scum here.
I want to see what Saber full claims as well.
Me claiming what I have and advising I have other powers too isn't something I'm in worry about.
If I'm the scum NK, then it's a bonus. If I get to effectively use my powers, thats even better.
Or I'm just scum and this is all irrelevant.
So, I have a couple questions based on this: why did Saber no longer seem "off" to you ater the Masterization phase? Why, if you thought Saber could be scum if it was only you two with the post restricting NP, did you decide to not wait until everyone had confirmed this, but instead gladiate Foreigner? Why did you not pressure or question Saber at all yourself? Further...
In post 1185, Servant Avenger wrote: In post 1169, Servant Lancer wrote:This has like, nothing to do with saber's play. Can you explain why the claim is strong enough to change your earlier view about there being 1 scum and 1 town in an NP pairing?
Because Saber has an anti scum power.
In post 1198, Servant Avenger wrote:
Giving NP power.
Scum having the power to give it to themselves is not happening.
Plus giving to anyone but the confirmed town is a scum claim, so it's a useless scum NP.
In post 1351, Servant Avenger wrote: In post 1342, Cabd wrote:Cursed Cupid Cleanser (C.C.C.) ~ **** ~ You may activate this Noble Phantasm during the day phase. When you do, you will grant * to all players you share a PT with, one per shared PT. You may additionally specify one of those players to be temporarily Macho for the night phase immediately after.
So this suggests that Saber is town even more so.
Otherwise it's strange for scum to be able to power each others NP like that.
I guess Moon's comes at a disadvantage of also buffing town players in a hood with them, but the macho part balances that out.
Why did you simply take her claim at face value? Why was this enough for you to change your read, irrespective of the rest of her play? What happened to your earlier skepticism of you having the same NP? I can't follow your thought process here at all. Can you walk me through it?