FGO: Mafia in the Lostbelt - 2 Game Over
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Servant Assassin Goon
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Servant Assassin Goon
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Servant Assassin Goon
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Would you say it's better than a guaranteed cop-shot? That is my offer.In post 77, Servant Saber wrote:My noble phantasm involves me making judgments about what other people find useful-
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It has been considered. I can guarantee its effectiveness.In post 108, Servant Alter Ego wrote:I honestly find it questionable that someone who gained a guaranteed cop shot from their NP would out it openly without possible consideration of it being blocked as a result.-
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Yes, this is indeed correctIn post 122, Servant Berserker wrote:Assassins entire play has screamed “I want the master power up from whoever gets it.” I can’t be the only one who saw that.-
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I have now actually had time to read the thread more closely than skimming.
I think it's pretty clear archer is town. Caster and Saber each are relatively towny. I do think a cop shot which would 100% go off (there is literally no way for scum counterplay) to start is just the best option, but if it isn't going to be me, saber is a fine 2nd choice.
I have yet to see anything that comes off as scummy, though beserker's appeal to cabd and the resultant thought to elect a charismatic town leader was off-putting.-
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I admit I don't quite get this part. Are you saying you'd set us up for success from your ability or that your IC status would be invaluable precisely because it is you who are IC. Once becoming master you should generally not plan or think about living past night 2.In post 110, Servant Saber wrote:It's hard to state without getting to far into my NP. Think about why town lose games. Think if someone could prevent that from happening.
Put that with a town leader.
I feel like it's my responsibility to prevent us from ruining ourselves if that makes sense.-
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Giving this another once over, Lancer is pinging me for scum.
I mostly dislike posts #85 and #100, the first being what the kids call LAMIST and the 2nd is simply that if you are town, you understand the pull that would draw one to wanting to become master. Even if me and Saber did not have strong mechanical reasons to want master, there is a pull that wants to get townread and make the most of your slot, and becoming master achieves that immediately. The "Why is that?" from Lancer basically should already be understood from a town perspective.-
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The off-putting part was less about the mechanical element (though that comes into it) but more about the concept of a potential charismatic town leader. I don't find those types to have nearly as much value as their lofty name would suggest. I'd be perfectly happy with a potato in the slot if I knew it was town over that.In post 151, Servant Berserker wrote:Typically people don’t like when someone opposes their game plan. I brought up information I deemed important to make these decisions, and stand by my choices to prefer someone to lead than someone for the role itself.
Lancer is town. I respect them not wanting to lead, but they are town. 85 is self reflective on their own qualifications to lead, as well as actual need and optimization of them receiving the master. I also think that everyone, regardless of alignment wants to be the master, so the “Why is that?” is more about trying to get a read and feels like an unfair nitpick.
Where does your town read of Lancer come from? Is it actually from the posts I've mentioned or somewhere else. Even entertaining your charitable version I don't see how you can evaluate his posts beyond the null zone.-
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Perhaps I was not clear. I prefer a clear town slot ascending to IC-hood even if they are a potato over a charismatic person who people think would make a good town leaderifthey were town, yet was not yet clear. Believe me I've had my fair share of playing with IC confirmed potatoes so I understand the frustrations that come with it.
I think that post is easily fakable and scum ought to be cognizant that at least some of their members would have to fake that kind of reasoning or close to it. I think the way alter-ego did so was a much townier way to go about it. Everyone else has just been playing the game and not had to stoop to giving reasons why its ok for them to not take the IC (or in archer's case has had mechanics reasons).-
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Ok, I suppose you can have them hereIn post 204, Servant Saber wrote:
Can you quote these posts in the same post? I play on mobile so that's hard.In post 149, Servant Assassin wrote:I mostly dislike posts #85 and #100, the first being what the kids call LAMIST and the 2nd is simply that if you are town, you understand the pull that would draw one to wanting to become master. Even if me and Saber did not have strong mechanical reasons to want master, there is a pull that wants to get townread and make the most of your slot, and becoming master achieves that immediately. The "Why is that?" from Lancer basically should already be understood from a town perspective.
In post 85, Servant Lancer wrote:I feel like I’m being pretty wishy-washy. It’s probably still better if I’m not selected, although I won’t say no if we’re prioritizing trying to hit town. I feel like I’ll be pretty obvtown which is good for that, but also I’ll be obvtown regardless and don’t need the master to confirm me per se.
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Why is that?In post 98, Servant Saber wrote:
This is fair. I feel like I have a duty to go after the master role and that might come across as overselling.In post 90, Servant Archer wrote:It is more that it looked like they were overselling
Generally a lack of content would make one harder to sort. Unless you are implying that I can be sorted precisely because I have a lack of content, which in general would imply you scumread me. Could you elaborate on this position or else clarify what you mean?In post 206, Servant Saber wrote:
I can't go along with that as it neuters my role and we can sort him by his content, which there is a lack of.In post 155, Servant Alter Ego wrote:I think the risk/reward is in our favor regardless and I wouldn't mind voting there because it sorts them early.
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In post 214, Servant Lancer wrote:
Or maybe I’m not egotistical and don’t believe that I have to control the game in order for town to win? And can consider possibilities for other slots feeling the same way, so a player who says they have a “duty” to go for master either thinks very highly of themselves as a player or has reason to believe their mech will outweigh all other mech abilities.In post 149, Servant Assassin wrote:Giving this another once over, Lancer is pinging me for scum.
I mostly dislike posts #85 and #100, the first being what the kids call LAMIST and the 2nd is simply that if you are town, you understand the pull that would draw one to wanting to become master. Even if me and Saber did not have strong mechanical reasons to want master, there is a pull that wants to get townread and make the most of your slot, and becoming master achieves that immediately. The "Why is that?" from Lancer basically should already be understood from a town perspective.In post 216, Servant Lancer wrote:Even further than that, the word “duty” makes it sound like saber believes that town would be hurt by them not being selected as master, as opposed to a purely self-driven reason for wanting it. So there has to be something behind that thought process.
I kind of agree with archer’s 213 re: saber.
As far as your ego is concerned, I thought you made a bit of a show of your magnanimity in your 85. It pinged me and I still don't like it. As for Saber's post, was it not clear to you that at that point Saber thinks "very highly of themselves as a player or has reason to believe their mech will outweigh all other mech abilities?" It seemed quite explicit and clear to me. The "thought process" you wished to get at was discernable already. You are correct that I had the intention of discrediting you; I felt it prudent to air that out and thought the town reads on you came too easily and were unwarranted. Despite this I don't have a full on scumread of you. It is in development. Your latest posts haven't moved the needle.In post 249, Servant Lancer wrote:Assassin’s read on me is trash and I’m fairly sure is designed to discredit me as someone who was being fairly widely townread.
I’m probably most comfortable with berserker being selected at this point.
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My NP goes through this. I am surprised that miller would be a thing in this setup.In post 228, Servant Avenger wrote:Hello, I'm here.
I am claiming Miller. You know what helps to sniff out a false Miller? Becoming the master!
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I'm treating the master selection as equivalent to an elimination in terms of informational value. It hurts the collective if there wasn't any competition involved. What makes this so different to you, as your desire to move on so implies?In post 242, Servant Beast wrote:Does anyone have serious objections to Saber getting the boost.
I'd like to move on.
Who are you talking about here, me or Moon? If me (which I originally assumed), what layers do you think I have?In post 257, Servant Beast wrote:
I feel like you need to be more skeptical of people than just seeing the first layer of an onion and being like, "yup, that's all there is"In post 255, Servant Berserker wrote:Again, Assassins motivation was never the initial master. They admitted as such.
Lancer is the easiest read in the game followed by Archer, it’s part of why Moon’s readslist is so awkward.
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Ruler is obvious town. Although I haven't absorbed all the links, there have been parts of their posts that have exactly mirrored my thoughts to a tee. Reading Saber's recent posts still make me think they are town, so I am quite concerned by Ruler's assessment of Saber. I would like to sort that out somehow.-
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As for Beserker's entry, I mean... I can't say it's a particularly bad choice, I mildly townread him. Not thrilled its coming in this late when I feel the opportunity should have more organically happened when me and saber made our bids. The only other option at this point I see town possibly consolidating around is lancer, should he choose to make it.-
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In post 259, Servant Ruler wrote:To this end, while Servant Archer may have declared they're not the best choice for mastership, they are the first servant who I feel lacks corruption. In the rvs, it is difficult to reliably differentiate between the pure and the corrupt, however, Servant Archer seems to genuinely be integrating into our group without deliberately trying; Servant Archer's early stances appear pure of heart.
These two @alter-ego. For the 2nd specifically the theatric comment wrt caster/foreigner as my thoughts hovered there at page 7 until page 8. I know you found the archer comment trivial but his first post jump-started my town read of him as it did for Ruler.In post 270, Servant Ruler wrote:Were we to be in a stage where we were to eliminate the corrupt with our votes, 162 would earn it from Servant Foreigner. If Servant Foreigner is corrupt, I believe 164 provides evidence Servant Assassin is pure. 170/171 do nothing to dissuade me from my belief in Servant Foreigner's corruption, but on a surface level may indicate the ones attacked are pure. (Admittedly though, it's not impossible for Servant Caster to be engaged in theatrics. The later stages of page 8 make me inclined to believe otherwise, that Servant Caster may be pure of heart.)-
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I'd like to think so, although my more confident reads are townreads that generally fall on town.In post 350, Servant Beast wrote:When you're scum hunting would you say you identify scum more often than average?-
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The last sentence of rider's post contradicts your own. If you didn't misspeak here, is your scumread of me really so strong that you'd jump to thinking I am lying, or even that my chances of lying are greater than avenger's.In post 339, Servant Saber wrote:
I agree with the last paragraph and I want to believe assassin is lying.In post 337, Servant Rider wrote:
Considering that a lot of these super abilities are probably ***** and that it would take 5 days/nights to charge, most of these abilities will probably not see usage without outside help.In post 329, Servant Archer wrote:It also seems strange to have a miller and a "miller-proof" cop - unless we also have a non-miller proof cop, and I don't know how likely it is that Cabd would give us multiple cops
And I don't really believe the miller claim and feel like it was mostly done in reaction to Assassin indicating he had a cop-like ability.
Yes I understand the difference between want and duty, but I also think considering Saber had spent at least three posts saying that they both thought they had good judgment and the strongest role, that the prerequisites for why they'd consider it a "duty" were present.In post 378, Servant Lancer wrote:Imo wanting to be master and feeling a duty to be master are entirely different magnitudes. My question was, what made saber’s play for master go to the level of duty?
The reason I bring up the specific word discrediting is that when people are trying to discredit townreads on me, they’re almost always scum. Because I am easy to read.
Why do you think all your townreads are (fypov “incorrectly”) townreading me and not seeing what you are?
How pleased I will be then, to add to the very rare cases provided you are town.
As for my town reads all townreading you, at least in two cases they cite post #85 (berserker/ruler) and I disagree completely with their assessment. It's completely possible they've augmented the read somewhere but I don't see evidence for it. Ego's read of you was more measured and I could understand it, unsure where he stands on you now. As for Archer/Caster I've no clue. I'm coming around to Beast being town as well and I don't know his particular reasoning either.
But even with the entire cavalcade of townreads on you, my opinion of your posts do not change.-
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@Foreigner, Luckily I know how to play my role and it's not a big deal that I have publicly revealed that my NP is used to determine alignments. Would be vastly superior if I was master which takes the skill out of the role, but I'm doubting that's happening at this point.
Dislike. Nothing is preventing you from reading the game / scumhunting before a master is selected, and 13/14 of the players have posted by this point. What could you really be waiting for.In post 401, Servant Avenger wrote:
Not really.In post 392, Servant Foreigner wrote:do you have thoughts? Don't worry we still got some pages left
It's irrelevant to me until I see particular people post after the master selection.-
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Besides what you previously said about caster lining up eliminations, was there anything else that from them that warranted this assessment?In post 416, Servant Foreigner wrote:
still looks badIn post 413, Servant Assassin wrote:Foreigner, have you read caster's recent posts? Have they affected your read at all if so.-
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I could write off 240/249/262 (with regard to 262, I think berserker was alluding to this as lancer's "quick wit" recently), but you may have a point about 252. I do think it's less likely scum question an old town read that was questioned at the time it was made. The only explanation I could give is that at the time lancer had one town read on him (caster's), and now with multiple, would now feel more secure pushing against a single one. Still, a town reason is more likely.In post 440, Servant Alter Ego wrote:I could understand the reasons you expressed doubt of Lancer given a significant chunk of their posting was mechanical in nature, but I don't think it's particularly fair to fault them for that given that was simply the subject of discussion at the time. Since the last time we discussed the read I've felt their posting has improved quite a fair bit - 240 felt pure, paranoia about knowing how the scum upgrade works isn't an angle I'd expect scum to take. I liked the indignance of 249 even if I disagreed with the take (because why would someone seeking the master aim to discredit a popular townread?), but that's a light tonal read. The skepticism/wariness of beast in 252 feels town, he's wary of being put into a pocket where I think scum!Lancer probably wouldn't have given the comment a seecond thought, certainly not that long after it had been posted. 262 was good because I had noticed the same thing when reading Ruler's wall, they just said it before I was able to say anything. It also means means they were paying attention and actually analyzing the words, rather than simply glazing them over and going "yep, town".
Do you still feel uneasy about Ruler?-
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I'm just going to use this post as springboard and then segue into a broad holistic overview of my thoughts on various subjects this game.In post 520, Servant Saber wrote:@Berserker, Your townreads focus a fair amount on who agrees with you. I find this a significant problem for thread health. A good master/stump cannot be vulnerable to buddying. Every stump game town wins without toxic cheating replaceouts won because of the fact the stumps were open to criticism by town. I'm worried that is not the case because of your townread rational, particularly on Archer and Alter.
Firstly with regard to the above, I am not worried whatsoever about berserkers ability to play a town leader role. He's a reasonable player, he does not ignore people, he's diligent, and I'm betting experienced. After his last reads wall any reservations I had as to his alignment are gone. Frankly Saber, as I've seen more of your play, I've grown more skeptical not of your alignment, which I think is still likely town, but of your ability to play competently in general and even to use your role effectively. You have now, and earlier in different contexts, brought up the concept of scum buddying as a tactic to watch out for. I do not think this is something to be overly concerned about this game even if it is happening somewhere, and with regards to berserker, I do think the man is capable of read fluidity. I do not think his top town reads have undergone much change (aside from maybe caster) but I can sense it with how he approaches my own read which looks like its taking more than one curve.
Now were I master, I might have this problem. Whether gained through buddying or not, my confident town reads tend to stick forever once I've made them, and I am extremely stubborn. I still just cannot imagine Caster/Alter-ego/Ruler being scum. Personally the fact that Ruler appears further down most people's reads lists is simply shocking to me. On the flip side, I am having a fair amount of difficulty establishing a solid scum read. The candidates I've thought about this game that remain for me now, namely, lancer/foreigner/avenger/moon caster have not really done anything that is explicitly scummy, that is, something that I can go ahead and say to myself "town never does this," or even "scum will do this a lot more than town would". A few of those names appear in other people's scum reads, but I simply do not have that same decisiveness. Foreigner's a good example of this. The points berserker makes about him to call him lean town, are not things to call someone town over. When I get to Ruler's retort, I think it goes too far in the opposite direction. of the three posts discussed, 162 is null, 171 is definitely a potshot which I don't like but can't say if it's scummy, and 388 is fine to me if a bit pithy. My uncertainty about foreigner doesn't factor in these posts anyway, its how they approach caster, which I find to be on the slight scummy side.
As for the talk around scum's approach to master candidates and resistance therein... I don't really think scum has much of a plan from the empirical evidence. Basically their chance came and went within the first six pages. If people think they go for the mechanic angle, I really don't think saber was their best bet. Perhaps they sold themselves as able to pull it off in their scum PT but kinda doubt it. If anything I'd have thought berserker's method would be more like what scum might try if they tired at all, as it was a bit of a strongman job. The lack of polarization on the choices is unfortunate. There very well might have been some info to be gleaned but I don't consider that a major loss, or a particularly strong worry as some here might.-
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Ruler could you tell me, ignoring let's say a supposed fakeclaiming meta, but not any other meta, which posts of saber's you find have scum intent / simply are scummy to you. In a vacuum to me Saber looks town, but I know they are the type of player I can misjudge easily.
pedit @beserker: It's dawning on me that you specifically credit towniness to posts you think scum would filter. I think scum are generally sophisticated enough to be able to fake that kind of unfiltered, in the moment, posting from time to time, so I give it little to no credit most always.-
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As to berserker's query, I'd prefer if Ruler/Altar-Ego/Caster were off the table.
I'm not sure I can narrow it down between Moon Cancer / Lancer / Foreigner / Avenger atm. I'm not satisfied with where I'm at right now with scumreads who I don't feel like I can even properly call scumreads. I'm going to reread the thread with fresh eyes and see if I can hone my reads or if there's something I missed.
Berserker, where you planning to go into more detail about me/Avenger after the master selection or before?-
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I agree with this. I'd add that his entire ISO feels slightly over the null line into town territory.In post 654, Servant Lancer wrote:As for me - I don’t necessarily disagree that his early ISO is lacking in content but I think most recently him being surprised at not being put in preferred-elim piles is gut-towny-feeling to me.-
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This was my reaction also upon seeing avenger's claim. Without being master, I would rate my NP as on the weaker side despite the potential to determine an alignment. It may be that there is some other standard cop-like ability in the game although again, considering the flavor / uniqueness / complexity of my all my abilities not even limited to my NP, its hard to imagine that or that there's something as mundane as a miller. (Although I guess my passive is fairly straight-forward so shrug)In post 770, Servant Berserker wrote:Pretty sure I get the idea. I'll keep that in mind for now. Why include a miller with a role like that, though? That's not really adding up for me.-
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I have yet to do a reread, but I'm atIn post 779, Servant Berserker wrote:Want to make me a tier list where you are at? Open question to everyone.
Caster/Ruler/Alter
Beast/Archer/Saber
Rider
Shielder
Lancer/Foreigner/Avenger/Moon Caster
With maybe Foreigner/Avenger as slightly my preferred. This pile is fluid. The 2nd tier town pile needs a once over as well.-
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I read that as a joke, possibly to tease something specific at the time I forget what.In post 784, Servant Lancer wrote:I forgot about the claim beast made. shielder should basically never be eliminated unless beast flips scum first, right?-
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I'm in the process of mulling over a couple isos, one of which is saber's. Before I take the dive there, there are a couple comments to address:
In 805, the first quote is me commiserating with alter, not yourself. As for the 2nd agreeing with someone does not a town read make. Observations like the one about rider are not exclusive stances that come from one alignment, and I'm not going to shy away from agreeing with someone I scumread. If you think I'm treating you like town it's because I don't treat scumreads like worthless gnats whose opinions don't matter, which a lot of other players do.
In 835 Mastina/Ruler asked why I'd think they were 100% town on a berserker scum flip. Simply, intuitively I highly doubt a scumbud takes this hard of a shit on their partner's reads in 509. Is it just 3 reads? sure. Would it tactically be beneficial to them to disagree with someone who was about to become confirm-scum? sure. But I don't believe it would happen on the eve of coronation.
As for ruler's force replace out. I haven't played with mastina in ages but from my memory, mastina as scum makes cases that are 100% grade-A bullshit. Misreps / flawed logic / baseless shit-flinging, the whole lot with a smug confidence with almost no rival. Obviously that's didn't happen here and I'm going to assume that's why people are happy to drop town reads on the slot. All I can say is: at least that's settled.
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On Saber:
I'm not sure how to preface this. Saber is a type of player I have trouble reading. They give off an aura of deep inexperience, are prone to faulty logic, heavy speculation, and paranoia. Is there a cutoff from which such behavior goes from possible of a town player to only being in the purview of scum? In my not particularly extraordinary mafia career, I have yet to see a bottom. There is no rabbit hole too deep from which any one townie will happily dive right into while the rest of everybody looks from the top down with shaking heads. And so, when I do see this happening, there are a good chuck of times I simply attribute it to town when in fact its just scum being audacious.
So what is the case for Saber? Firstly, right off the bat, I am positive Saber claimed their true power. If they were scum with a different one, well I do not think anyone would have the imagination to decide to blast off into being forced to defend the one claimed, which as anyone (normal) can see, is complete shit. However there is a case to be made (and I am leaning this way and will offer it) that Saber may very well have taken this power, and mentally decided to treat it as the next best thing to sliced bread. This is still insanity. No one of us would ever do this, but if Saber's proven anything, they have proven they are insane.
I can't actually show from their posts that saber doesn't think their power is the bee's knees when used early. Almost all are frighteningly consistent on that point. Arguably the very first few posts, like 35 are the only cracks there as Saber's other posts tend to signal that they think they are well-suited to the power (see 77, 205, 206, and 218) which would suggest they do in fact like the power. The context for 208 is actually what's happening right now, judgement time, but it is also consistent with someone who knows their power isn't all that good and less likely to come from someone who believes their power is good, for would we reasonable people not find Saber's oversell completely justified given the godlike power they claim to have? Why should Saber worry at all?
There are a couple posts in the iso I don't like but can't make up my mind if they are AI or simply make it clearer that Saber is selfish. Namely, 206 and more recently 909. The first is quite unsympathetic and the 2nd one really just discounts the fact objectively scum would have more to fear from a 100% guaranteed cop check than the mystery option. What moves me over the edge though is a couple of perspective inconsistencies: The paranoia of buddying. It exists in posts 235, 468, 472, and 520. By itself, possibly just overused diction stolen from 2015er newborns. But it really doesn't jive with posts like 316, 474, and to a lesser extent 909. That is, one cannot be both scared of buddying and argue that scum is trying to push over town by not supporting/advancing Saber's bid. Individually, each stance might be plausible to Saber, but I don't see a way to reconcile these.
I know I've basically thrown the kitchen sink here at Saber but I'm being as thorough as I can. And even still I'm not sure there isn't a better elimination option.-
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Servant Assassin Goon
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I don't find Moon Caster's iso nearly as bad as others but I want some more.
The last, and only, specific reason to scumread Alter came from post 238. I don't find it convincing. How has that read matured over time and what specific posts can you point to as to support your conclusions?In post 828, Servant Moon Cancer wrote:Alter Ego has been in the bottom of my reads for a very long time. Check my ISO for reason(s).-
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Servant Assassin Goon
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I don't think this is a blatant attempt to save Moon Cancer. It doesn't make sense, we have two eliminations in the day, all this does if Avenger is scum is put him in danger faster.
I acknowledge that Moon Cancer was probably going to be the elimination had this not occurred. But there's very little stopping them from being the 2nd elimination of the day as things stand anyway.
My instinct is that avenger is more likely to be town from this, although has become a liability. I'm going to read foreigner's iso.-
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Servant Assassin Goon
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Couple things,
Before any of this happened I probably would have voted Saber. However I've reread foreigner, avenger, and moon caster and I now think it's prudent to eliminate Moon Caster. Rereading the early game, I dislike their early read on Alter more than I previously did. The lack of update or more detailed explanation when pressed should not come from a player who was frustrated that the rest of town were in fact townreading Alter. I still find the shift in the rest of their reads plausible. Foreigner's iso was less bad than I thought it was, but I still don't like the approach to caster. The interaction between Foreigner and Moon Cancer does not appear to be a bus to me. I still lean town on avenger.
VOTE: Moon Cancer-
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Servant Assassin Goon
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Lancer, can you really not interpret how I feel about Saber in 1007? Because otherwise 1314 is a massive misrepresentation of my argument within. 1268 should also provide a context clue in case you really weren't sure. You've similarly reduced that post too as a "reaction" even though you referenced 1195 elsewhere. Wouldn't that be better for your reaction criteria, or was that poor as well?-
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Servant Assassin Goon
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Besides Alter cementing town status even harder if possible, this from Foreigner
is too committed too early to be a bus. I'd ask avenger to consider it this.In post 519, Servant Foreigner wrote:I know when some is scum when they give awful excuses to push me and Cancer is good example of it.
I'll take a look at the relationship between Moon Caster and Saber, but I'm going toprudentlytreat Moon's reads as being WIFOM.-
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I am loathe to reconsider my town reads on both Caster and Ruler.
I read for Saber's posts to see the interactions between them and Moon Caster and I find it largely a wash. Posts 235 and 472 gave me a sense of TMI. Can one buddy from just a naked reads list without direct interaction? That would also not be my first conclusion say, were my name up there. I'd be thinking "hey maybe this person has some cool and interesting things to say". The follow-up reads list has but one scum read, and it is Moon. It does not say why Moon is scummy in any detail.
The vote of Moon Caster, however, is well placed: 3rd on a budding wagon. The first half of the reason behind it is plausible enough and shared by others (personally not me), unsure about the "throw mud and see what sticks part". Maybe? 238 I suppose qualifies.
I'm still likely to vote Saber. However, I'm once again having trouble seeing anyone else coming close to being particularly scummy. A problem for another day perhaps.-
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Servant Assassin Goon
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Servant Assassin Goon
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I think individual scum members can have individual motivations. You'd think in scum PTs there'd be coordination in the sense of "all together now, bus moon!!" but rarely does that happen with precision. I do think there was probably a realization that members would have to bus moon in any case though.In post 1707, Servant Archer wrote:Instead of, I don't know -- joining the bus?
Since I typed that up I took a look at side by side isos of Foreigner/Saber/Votecounts.
Originally I went into today thinking foreigner was town and avenger would be scum more due to POE than anything, but I do think there is a case to be made that foreigner could have bussed Moon Cancer. I wouldn't say it's a strong case though. Saber and Foreigner expressed scumreads on Moon Cancer at about the same time, so my previous assessment that foreigner's scumread was too committed and too early to be a bus might not be true if the scumteam decided on a strategy of bussing Moon Cancer The combination of 840/841, and [urlhttps://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=12876162#p12876162]1031[/url] don't quite flow together nicely. Saber was one of the few Moon Cancer votes at the time of 840/841 so why is Saber just null?
Foreigner has trouble expressing himself well, so it's hard to parse what he thought about Saber at any particular time. This is especially true when the discussion relating to resistance/the lack thereof to Saber's master wagon occurred earlier. I spent a while looking at it and still cannot understand the thought process behind it at all.
As for avenger I don't share Archer's sentiment that's he's clearly town (or Rider's that he's clearly scum). I think he's firmly null by play.-
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Servant Assassin Goon
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Servant Assassin Goon
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now with fixed tags.In post 1757, Servant Assassin wrote:
I think individual scum members can have individual motivations. You'd think in scum PTs there'd be coordination in the sense of "all together now, bus moon!!" but rarely does that happen with precision. I do think there was probably a realization that members would have to bus moon in any case though.In post 1707, Servant Archer wrote:Instead of, I don't know -- joining the bus?
Since I typed that up I took a look at side by side isos of Foreigner/Saber/Votecounts.
Originally I went into today thinking foreigner was town and avenger would be scum more due to POE than anything, but I do think there is a case to be made that foreigner could have bussed Moon Cancer. I wouldn't say it's a strong case though. Saber and Foreigner expressed scumreads on Moon Cancer at about the same time, so my previous assessment that foreigner's scumread was too committed and too early to be a bus might not be true if the scumteam decided on a strategy of bussing Moon Cancer The combination of 840/841, and 1031 don't quite flow together nicely. Saber was one of the few Moon Cancer votes at the time of 840/841 so why is Saber just null?
Foreigner has trouble expressing himself well, so it's hard to parse what he thought about Saber at any particular time. This is especially true when the discussion relating to resistance/the lack thereof to Saber's master wagon occurred earlier. I spent a while looking at it and still cannot understand the thought process behind it at all.
As for avenger I don't share Archer's sentiment that's he's clearly town (or Rider's that he's clearly scum). I think he's firmly null by play.-
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Caster was and is town,In post 1863, Servant Beast wrote:Assassin, Rider, Caster. To obvtown
Rider has been obvtowning for this entire day phase.-
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